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ISIS Cashing in on Looted Antiquities to Fuel Iraq Insurgency  

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wellreadwellbred
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18/03/2015 2:41 pm  

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140626-isis-insurgents-syria-iraq-looting-antiquities-archaeology/ --- ISIS Cashing in on Looted Antiquities to Fuel Iraq Insurgency[.] Al-Qaeda splinter group selling artifacts to buy weapons. By Heather Pringle, for National Geographic[.] PUBLISHED June 27, 2014[.]

If it should come to the situation that the only way of saving the Stele of Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu from certain destruction, was to buy it from looters, I would be in support of buying it.


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Shiva
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18/03/2015 6:08 pm  
"wellreadwellbred" wrote:
I would be in support of buying it.

How much money do you have to invest? And will you require personal possession of the item?


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wellreadwellbred
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18/03/2015 6:48 pm  
"Shiva" wrote:
"wellreadwellbred" wrote:
I would be in support of buying it.

How much money do you have to invest? And will you require personal possession of the item?

I am hoping for that Jimmy Page is still alive and kicking, or for the lasting existence of the OTO currently 'frater superiored' by Hymenaeus Beta, if it should come to the situation that the only way of saving the Stele of Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu from certain destruction, was to buy it from looters.


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Michael Staley
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18/03/2015 7:03 pm  

Even though you'd be funding their continuing programme of destruction?


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Shiva
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18/03/2015 7:48 pm  
"wellreadwellbred" wrote:
I am hoping for that Jimmy Page ... or for the ... OTO ...

I see. Then he, or "they," will be in possession, and we will never get to see it in order to settle petty squabbles about hieroglyphs and paint and holes, etc?


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OKontrair
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18/03/2015 7:58 pm  

Anyway, if you canvas openly for this project you will be noticed by the authorities. If you actually get so far as setting out to hand over money you will be granted free board and lodging for the forseeable future.

Fortunately the said artefact is not currently at risk.

I could probably fix you up with a chunk of the True Cross if you like this kind of souvenir.

OK


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michaelclarke18
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19/03/2015 6:46 am  

If it should come to the situation that the only way of saving the Stele of Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu from certain destruction, was to buy it from looters, I would be in support of buying it.

Odd statement - not really relevant.


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jamie barter
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19/03/2015 1:16 pm  

If the Thelemic community can’t even get it together to “save” the Abbey of Thelema, about whose warning of terminal decline there has been decades notice, I can’t imagine any individual or cabal is going to suddenly step forward to ‘save’ the Stele.  This includes Mr Page (personal fortune estimated at c. £80m, I believe).  People in general are just too lazy and/or uncommitted, you see – and that goes for the majority of ‘Thelemites’ also.

Norma N Joy Conquest


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Shiva
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19/03/2015 1:48 pm  
"jamie barter" wrote:
People in general are just too lazy and/or uncommitted, you see – and that goes for the majority of ‘Thelemites’ also.

Oh, Frater Barter, how unworthy are your sentiments 😉


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jamie barter
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19/03/2015 4:34 pm  
"Shiva" wrote:
"jamie barter" wrote:
People in general are just too lazy and/or uncommitted, you see – and that goes for the majority of ‘Thelemites’ also.

Oh, Frater Barter, how unworthy are your sentiments 😉

Harsh but fair, Frater Shiva, harsh but fair! 😉

(Have you got some grit there in your eye too?! ;D)
N Joy


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christibrany
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21/03/2015 8:18 pm  

giving money to those thugs is the stupidest thing i have ever heard. rhubarbrhubarbrhubarb


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Shiva
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21/03/2015 8:36 pm  
"christibrany" wrote:
giving money to those thugs is the stupidest thing i have ever heard. rhubarbrhubarbrhubarb

But what if it was to keep your head on your body? It's not that I disagree with you, but I'd change my mind if it were my head. See: The theory of Relativity, wherein all things are "relative."


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christibrany
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21/03/2015 8:53 pm  

Call me old fashioned but I am willing to die for freedom and liberty.


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Hamal
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21/03/2015 9:11 pm  
"jamie barter" wrote:
People in general are just too lazy and/or uncommitted, you see – and that goes for the majority of ‘Thelemites’ also.

Oh no not you too! Telling us what our problems are! tut tut!  😉


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Shiva
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21/03/2015 11:39 pm  
"Hamal" wrote:
Oh no not you too! Telling us what our problems are! tut tut!  😉

Your problem is that you failed to capitalize Tut ... twice!


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Shiva
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12/04/2015 5:11 pm  

Newser) – "Islamic State militants hammered, bulldozed, and ultimately blew up parts of the ancient Iraqi Assyrian city of Nimrud, destroying a site dating back to the 13th century BC, an online video purportedly shows. The destruction at Nimrud, located near the militant-held city of Mosul, came amid other attacks on antiquity carried out by the group now holding a third of Iraq and neighboring Syria in its caliphate. The attacks have horrified archaeologists and UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, who last month called the destruction at Nimrud "a war crime." The seven-minute video, posted late yesterday, shows militants taking down huge alabaster reliefs depicting Assyrian kings and deities. A bulldozer brings down walls, while militants fill barrels with explosives and later destroy three separate areas of the site in massive explosions."

"God has honored us in the Islamic State to remove all of these idols and statutes worshipped instead of Allah in the past days," one militant says in the video. Another vows that "whenever we seize a piece of land, we will remove signs of idolatry and spread monotheism."


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Los
 Los
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12/04/2015 5:25 pm  
"Shiva" wrote:
"God has honored us in the Islamic State to remove all of these idols and statutes worshipped instead of Allah in the past days," one militant says in the video. Another vows that "whenever we seize a piece of land, we will remove signs of idolatry and spread monotheism."

Well, if we were to adopt the perspective of some people on this forum, who are we to say anything about this guy's beliefs? I mean, that's his opinion, right? Who's to say he's wrong? Maybe some people have a different opinion, but at the end of the day it's all opinion and nothing more, right?


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Shiva
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12/04/2015 5:37 pm  
"Los" wrote:
Maybe some people have a different opinion, but at the end of the day it's all opinion and nothing more, right?

The "opinions" are sumply their "beliefs." However, their "opinion" that they're going to destroy us, The Great Satan. is an opinion that has far-reaching consequences ... and it's my opinion that I'll be shooting as they come over the hill. Not that it's very likely to happen in my lifetime here in rural New Mexico 😀


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Los
 Los
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12/04/2015 6:04 pm  
"Shiva" wrote:
The "opinions" are sumply their "beliefs." However, their "opinion" that they're going to destroy us, The Great Satan. is an opinion that has far-reaching consequences

And that's my point. There are some people on these forums who want to reduce everything -- especially deeply held religious beliefs -- to the status of nothing more than opinion, as if believing that one can magically leave one's body is on the same epistemological footing as thinking that vanilla is the best flavor of ice cream.

The problem with this line of thinking is that, in order to be consistent, one would have to equally say that the belief in Allah, martyrdom, and the belief that certain historical treasures should be destroyed (like these nuts are doing) are equally "just an opinion."

Sorry, but believing that there is an Allah who wants one to do these sorts of things -- like believing that a person can magically leave his body -- is a factual claim about the world that has an objective answer. And just as there's insufficient evidence to think that anybody can leave his body, so too is there insufficient evidence to think that there is an Allah who wants atrocities done in his name.


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Shiva
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12/04/2015 6:52 pm  
"Los" wrote:
... some people ... want to reduce everything -- especially deeply held religious beliefs -- to the status of nothing more than opinion ...

"Opinions," coupled with "action," lead to debates, arguments, wars, beheadings, and the destruction of antiquities. The entire course of history, created by these "actions," is the result of "opinions."

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The problem with this line of thinking is that, in order to be consistent, one would have to equally say that the belief in Allah, martyrdom, and the belief that certain historical treasures should be destroyed (like these nuts are doing) are equally "just an opinion."

Well, it all started with somebody's opinion. Then it became an "option," and a bunch of aggressive, culturally-programmed fanatics elected to undertake that "option."

... so too is there insufficient evidence to think that there is an Allah who wants atrocities done in his name.

Yeah, he's just a fakir ... but we know that there's an Aiwass who wants certain things done 😉


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wellreadwellbred
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13/04/2015 12:34 am  
"OKontrair" wrote:
Anyway, if you canvas openly for this project you will be noticed by the authorities. If you actually get so far as setting out to hand over money you will be granted free board and lodging for the forseeable future. ...
"jamie barter" wrote:
If the Thelemic community can’t even get it together to “save” the Abbey of Thelema, about whose warning of terminal decline there has been decades notice, I can’t imagine any individual or cabal is going to suddenly step forward to ‘save’ the Stele.  This includes Mr Page (personal fortune estimated at c. £80m, I believe).  People in general are just too lazy and/or uncommitted, you see – and that goes for the majority of ‘Thelemites’ also.

In respect of OKontrair's very valid point, any hypothetical project about saving the Stele of Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu from certain destruction, by buying it from looters, should only be done in cooperation with government authorities.

Barter's point about that the majority of ‘Thelemites’ are just too lazy and/or uncommitted to deal with anything like the said project, is also in support of that it should only be done in cooperation with government authorities.

The possibility that some Islamist terrorists interested in attracting some ‘Thelemites’ to kidnap, might pretend to be the looters willing to sell it for money, if the Stele of Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu was missing, is another reason that such a project should only be done in cooperation with government authorities.


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Shiva
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13/04/2015 12:58 am  
"wellreadwellbred" wrote:
In respect of OKontrair's very valid point, any hypothetical project about saving the Stele of Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu from certain destruction, by buying it from looters, should only be done in cooperation with government authorities.

Barter's point about that the majority of ‘Thelemites’ are just too lazy and/or uncommitted to deal with anything like the said project, is also in support of that it should only be done in cooperation with government authorities.

"Man has the right to buy and sell what he will;" what he can get away with; and who are these hypothetical "authorities?" 😮 
- "Is there a government? then I'm agin it! To Hell with the bloody English!  "O FRATER PERDURABO, how unworthy are these sentiments!" - "D'ye want a clip on the jaw?"

The possibility that some Islamist terrorists interested in attracting some ‘Thelemites’ to kidnap, might pretend to be the looters willing to sell it for money, if the Stele of Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu was missing, is another reason that such a project should only be done in cooperation with government authorities.

- "D'ye want a clip on the jaw?" ;D


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gnosomai
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13/04/2015 1:42 am  
"Shiva" wrote:
"Opinions," coupled with "action," lead to debates, arguments, wars, beheadings, and the destruction of antiquities. The entire course of history, created by these "actions," is the result of "opinions."

Interesting nuance here, Shiva. One that is core to any discussion along these lines: Opinions coupled with actions. Most important

The problem with this line of thinking is that, in order to be consistent, one would have to equally say that the belief in Allah, martyrdom, and the belief that certain historical treasures should be destroyed (like these nuts are doing) are equally "just an opinion."

Yes indeed, Los, you have analyzed English correctly, the belief in Allah, martyrdom, and the belief that certain historical treasures should be destroyed (like these nuts are doing) are equally "just an opinion." Your use of English, however, leaves something to be desired. You parenthetical conflates thought with action. Very sloppy.

Their action of destroying historical treasures, while guided by their opinion, is not the same thing. Unless we're living in the Minority Report future, thought crimes are not the same as actual crimes.


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Shiva
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08/01/2016 4:50 pm  

"Lena al-Qasem had reportedly told her son that the US-led military alliance fighting IS would "wipe out" the group, and tried to convince him to leave the city with her.

Her son is then said to have informed the group of her comment. They then ordered that she be killed.

Ali Saqr is reported to have shot her outside the post office where she worked, in front of hundreds of people.

Since then the group has killed more than 2,000 people for reasons including homosexuality, and for the alleged practice of magic and apostasy ..."

You magicians, et al, better be careful. There was a reason for secrecy in the olde tymes, and it's coming back right now.


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William Thirteen
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08/01/2016 4:59 pm  

Your practice of "Thread Necromancy" might put you also in a dangerous position Shiva.


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