What sort of funeral would you want?
Do you go to funerals? I take it you have to put up with Old Aeon ceremonies and so on. For example, the day my dad was buried , before the actual burial, the coffin was in a christian church and I had to endure a Church gathering where a christian priest rambled on about about Christ the redeemer etc.
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
Do you go to funerals?
More often than most.
the day my dad was buried , before the actual burial, the coffin was in a christian church and I had to endure a Church gathering where a christian priest rambled on about about Christ the redeemer etc.
Would this have pleased your Dad? Was it what HE wanted?
I have been to all kinds of funerals and burials (Christian, Atheist, Masonic, Baha'i etc). Regardless of the religious context, I find one of the most meaningful aspects of the event to be the "memorial," that part where people share their memories, stories and celebrate the life which has touched their own.
What sort of funeral would you want?
Not a Crowleyite one. All that rambling on about the "Greater Feast," the fulfillment of my Will blah blah.
But I hope there might be good music and good sandwiches. The last memorial I attended had bacon wrapped figs. Those were tasty.
And I'm not being nonchalant. That person who died? He was a disabled man who choked. After his death, the Agency I work for really emphasized safety protocol around this. A month or two later, a caregiver who knew of this sad event rose to the occasion and saved the life of another choking individual. She said she heard of what happened and couldn't let it happen again.
That's an example of living on, of giving to the world beyond our last breath. I'm not worried about "Old Aeon Funerals." I would hope people's wishes would be honored, not trounced by the survivors' desires. And I would hope we all pass whatever flame we have, howsoever we might pass it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdSsYNirbvw
What sort of funeral would you want?
Don't much care, i won't be there. We mostly do cremation in my family, so no funeral is really needed. I'd like the theme music from Clockwork Orange, aka Purcell's Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary to be played at my memorial. Beer should be served.
Do you go to funerals?
Entirely too many of them, fortunately none recently. Both my parents, and almost all my old friends, are dead.
I take it you have to put up with Old Aeon ceremonies and so on.
I have been to some in churches, yes: just like church weddings, they are something one has to put up with for people one cares for. No one in my family except one uncle and his wife are church-goers. My mom's memorial was Quaker-meeting style with zero religion, my dad had a free military funeral courtesy of the US government with some minimal Jesus, but more gun-fire, and other military pageantry. They put on a good show at Arlington.
What sort of funeral would you want?
I'd like the theme music from Clockwork Orange, aka Purcell's Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary to be played at my memorial. Beer should be served.
Not We Will Fall by The Stooges (and with pungent incense)?
Entirely too many of them, fortunately none recently. Both my parents, and almost all my old friends, are dead.
How are they going out? Long illnesses? Which illnesses? Are they going suddenly or not suddenly?
. My mom's memorial was Quaker-meeting style with zero religion,
Apparently Pagan funerals can be requested. What about if you know you're time was short? Would you want last rites or a Buddhist priest chanting by your bedside?
Would this have pleased your Dad? Was it what HE wanted?I
I have been to all kinds of funerals and burials (Christian, Atheist, Masonic, Baha'i etc). Regardless of the religious context, I find one of the most meaningful aspects of the event to be the "memorial," that part where people share their memories, stories and celebrate the life which has touched their own.
Exactly, funerals are for the living to get closure for themselves
Not a Crowleyite one. All that rambling on about the "Greater Feast," the fulfillment of my Will blah blah.
No Hymn to Pan then? I was thinking a recorded reading of Liber Tzaddi would do it.
By the way, i like the choke-prevention story.
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
We Will Fall by The Stooges (and with pungent incense)
Another nice funeral song maybe, but this might be said of most Stooges material. The wife hates all perfumes and incenses, and i would hope she would attend, so no smells.
How are they going out? Long illnesses? Which illnesses? Are they going suddenly or not suddenly?
Among my contemporaries, overdoses, various complications of alcoholism, and a couple murders, so mostly suddenly. My father died very suddenly, my mother was more a planned hospice death. She was a woman who made lists, and the last item on the last one was "Die".
She was a woman who made lists, and the last item on the last one was "Die".
Excellent!
Old Aeon or not, has anybody here made a testament?
I have attended quite a few funerals, all old aeonic. My biological father took his life when I was very small, so I was kind of glad that there was a grave to visit many years later. My step-father for 15 years (who died 3 years ago during Lockdown and had neglected contact for 35+ years) was buried (his ashes) in a "grave-wood" ("Friedwald" in German) under a tree which was nice to visit last year, but it was super-hard and not at all quite or solemn to find the tree ("Here is tree 471, but the next one is 223! Where are you?" I was yelling to my brother who searched seperatedly for more than half an hour. We only visited because it was his biological father and I drove him there since he didn't have a license then and I did not really miss the man). Other family members and friends were buried and celebrated quite traditionally in some Christian style, but I did not had to "endure" Christianity during these times, I get it that most people go that way.
I myself want to be cremated (can't afford a grave) and want every Lashtal member to fly in and dance to Zappa before my urn and then take any book from my collection that they want.
@the_real_simon_iff When I die I want to be buried face down so the world can kiss my ass goodbye 😂
My father died very suddenly, my mother was more a planned hospice death. She was a woman who made lists, and the last item on the last one was "Die".
Sudden is better but not for those who get the news by phone call or being in the same place as them. My friend dropped dead in front of his mother age 40 something (diabetic heart problems).
List? Die? Hahah your mom rocked.
Old Aeon or not, has anybody here made a testament?
A legal Will?
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
Yes, sorry my German came through. A legal Will.
No but it's a shrewd move for some specifically if they don't want the tax payer to take their assets that would otherwise have gone to their offsprings/next of kin.
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
In the US, and also in the UK according to wikipedia, if you fail to make a will, your assets do not go to "the tax payer" (meaning, i presume, the government).
They go to your next of kin as determined by the probate courts.
Write your true Will, it shall be the Law"
But, in the legal system, a written True Will. holographic, witnessed, or notarized, has absolutely no effect until one dies. It may encourage premortem squabbles among the benefactors, but nothing gets transferred 'til transition-time. This practice appears to be identical to religious claims, except a Will can be executed in the world of matter, but going to heaven or hell is still up in the aethyr.
No but it's a shrewd move for some specifically if they don't want the tax payer to take their assets that would otherwise have gone to their offsprings/next of kin.
The shrewd move is called a "living trust." You give it away before you die, but you retain possession until the last breath, at which time the assets transfer directly to the beneficiaries, and it's not tax-free, but a rather large amount is required to qualify for tax-levying (about a $mil in USA), and there's no probate hassles or courts or judges interfering from outsiders.
In the US, and also in the UK according to wikipedia, if you fail to make a will, your assets do not go to "the tax payer" (meaning, i presume, the government).
They go to your next of kin as determined by the probate courts.
I meant 'taxman'. You're only allowed to leave a specific amount to the next of kin, any over that, the government take it.
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
You're only allowed to leave a specific amount to the next of kin, any over that, the government take it.
Let's dispense with boring old Crowley for the moment, david. I want to ask your advice on something far less dull instead: what I should do with my pension plan in connection with filling out my last will & testament vis-a-vis the (inheritance) tax situation. Are you free?
I mean of course, do you come free?
NormaN Joy Conquest.
I meant 'taxman'. You're only allowed to leave a specific amount to the next of kin, any over that, the government take it.
Aha! So things appear to be different on the opposite sides of The Great Pond.
In the USA, one is allowed to dump everything onto the shoulders of one's downline. The gov may tax it above a certain level (It was $700,000 in 2002.
And so we come to the subject of inherited wealth, which has been identified as a symbol or an emblem of the enemy of humanity. One would need to inherit much more than the paltry sums I have cited to qualify for the enemitical designation.
Imagine you are the benefactor and receive your inheritance of 100 generations of gold-saving, banking, and property management, all of which has been transferred down the line of succession by smart folks with smart lawyers, so taxes are not a problem.
Aha! So things appear to be different on the opposite sides of The Great Pond.
In the USA, one is allowed to dump everything onto the shoulders of one's downline. The gov may tax it above a certain level (It was $700,000 in 2002.
When I say the taxman 'takes it' they take at a % of the sum that goes over the threshold.
Let's dispense with boring old Crowley for the moment, david. I want to ask your advice on something far less dull instead: what I should do with my pension plan in connection with filling out my last will & testament vis-a-vis the (inheritance) tax situation. Are you free?
Can we get back to Old Aeon funerals and Pagan funerals and Buddhist monks who talk the dying through the various bardos?
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
Can we get back to Old Aeon funerals and Pagan funerals and Buddhist monks who talk the dying through the various bardos?
I thought this was just about Old Aeon funerals? Enduring Christian stuff is just one part of where your will also belongs (Testament in German). Like - believe it or not - we are all living in "Christian" countries. Or most of the contributors here do.
Isn't that "abrogate" "Old Aeon" stuff?
Astral Projection and Skrying in the Spirit Vision? No, not the last time I checked. Having your journey talked through by a Buddhist monk when you should just be doing it by yourself? Maybe.
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
Having your journey talked through by a Buddhist monk when you should just be doing it by yourself?
This varies. Most folks start in the Outer Order, where they don't know diddly and the guru gives orders. Old aeon-new aeon doesn't matter. What matters is that one does the work, while secretly praying that the guru is not demented, as most of them are.
A few folks, maybe a lot, try to cross the Outer Order Burning Ground by themselves. I've known a few who appeared to have crossed to Paroketh, found the portal, and got out onto the causal plane. Note the word "few." Most self-propellers end up with egomania.
But then I've known a lot of initiates of the Outer variety who have stood before the initiator, theoretically having "seen the light," who flopped around under guruic control for a few years, then quit - with a return to Mammon, and we can say, They didn't make it out.
Personally, I would refrain from saying "should just be doing it by yourself," in terms of the Outer Order. Crowley, Bennett, et al, and me too, all stood before the initiator and got handed a spark (although the spark only ignites in one out of a hundred attempted rocket launches). So there's a precedent for getting in line in the Outer.
In relation to the Inner, "should" is not the right word for doing it yourself. "Will be doing it yourself" is the correct phrase. Regardless of what it says in One Star, anybody under the thumb of a guru here is not the independent, Sunnyasi, Adept.
So, how did I start this post? Oh, yeah ... This varies.
This varies. Most folks start in the Outer Order, where they don't know diddly and the guru gives orders.
I think you misunderstood what I mean by 'journey'. I meant vis a vis The Tibetan Book of the Dead, the Bardos or planes that the dying person astrally projects into.
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
I think you misunderstood ...
Yes, I apparently I got nixed and would go back to see where I went wrong, but you have mentioned bardos, a great subject. They conform to the Tree, you know. The lower bardos (The Hall of Hallucination) are the same as when someone dies (astral), or when a nit takes LSD (astral), or similar. The secondary phase of the First Bardo (clear light) is where "a dialog takes place ..." which is known as Conversing with an Angel in Crowley dialect (causal - Tiphareth).
But, of course, the goal remains the Primary Clear Light, at Kether, which is where people go to claim Ip (this subject running concurrently on a parallel universe thread).
I have studioed the Bardo Thodol, starting with Leary's psychedelic book, moving to scholarly translations, and finally giving up (there was something wrong in these) and saying, "Okay, where's the Thodol writ by a Tibetan ? I found two others. They seem to have gotten it right-correct. Guess what? It is made quite clear that reading the book to a dying or dead person is a western myth! It is intended for, and used by, monks/initiates who are undergoing the death-process while still alive - just like the A.'.A.'. ceremonies Pyramidos, Tuat, Tiphareth, some sort of journey across the causal plane, then over The Grand Canyon ... to some source orf light.
The book is not read to dying, common people. The death they are guided through is the ego-death we chat about, from time to time. This is what a high-ranking Tibetan had to say. I have paraphrased his words, and I have not added any spin.
So, yes, you're absolutely correct. We have Thodol, and Leary, and AC's Hashish comments. The one last day will come upon us all, except for the immortals who I have not met, and if we've spent a lifetime (or a good part of it) practicing ...
The astral hallucinations should be cleared instantly through the Rising maneuver. Good luck here. Attachments to things, people, gold may cause a delay. And so on ... What is the objective? To immediately grasp the clear light when it appears. In his own words, Ramana Maharshi did this as a youth, and it was his only advice on what to do. As a secondary measure, he advocated bhakti yoga. So he walked around for most of a lifetime as a real saint (one who had grasped Kether, and not let go).
I think you misunderstood ...
Yes, I apparently I got nixed and would go back to see where I went wrong, but you have mentioned bardos, a great subject. They conform to the Tree, you know. The lower bardos (The Hall of Hallucination) are the same as when someone dies (astral), or when a nit takes LSD (astral), or similar. The secondary phase of the First Bardo (clear light) is where "a dialog takes place ..." which is known as Conversing with an Angel in Crowley dialect (causal - Tiphareth).
But, of course, the goal remains the Primary Clear Light, at Kether, which is where people go to claim Ip (this subject running concurrently on a parallel universe thread).
I have studied the Bardo Thodol, starting with Leary's psychedelic book, moving to scholarly translations, and finally giving up (there was something wrong in these) and saying, "Okay, where's the Thodol writ by a Tibetan ? I found two others. They seem to have gotten it right-correct. Guess what? It is made quite clear that reading the book to a dying or dead person is a western myth! It is intended for, and used by, monks/initiates who are undergoing the death-process while still alive - just like the A.'.A.'. ceremonies Pyramidos, Tuat, Tiphareth, some sort of journey across the causal plane, then over The Grand Canyon ... to some source of light.
However, to be blunt, I'd also say that the Tibetans would agree that getting a grip on asana, pranayama Dharana, Banishings, Skrying and the Rising on the Planes exercise prepares the living better for the journey after the dissolution of the Guf. I did read the Bardo Thodol online some years ago, as I recall there are various entities who confront the deceased traveller i.e. in Ring Pass Nots (known as Pylons in The Egyptian Book of the Dead). For example, folk who are generally in the grip of their Nefesh and Ruach now are likely to be devoured by (their own Shadow?) Demons on the appropriate plane (the 'set' in Leary's 'set, setting, dosage').
Those who are devoured are then bounced back into the 'sin bin' of the Wheel of mortal incarnation. This is when the disembodied soul is presented with another offer (or deal) to learn and they start flying around various housing estates searching for an appropriate house or apartment where a pregnant female resides who's zygot they will fuse with. Your new momma. I reckon a lot of 'the dead' hang around Malkuth trying to help people as seen in the movie The Sixth Sense.
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
However, to be blunt, I'd also say that the Tibetans would agree that getting a grip on asana, pranayama Dharana, Banishings, Skrying and the Rising on the Planes exercise prepares the living better for the journey after the dissolution of the Guf.
Your comment is not "blunt." It is normal, good, free advice. I do not know the word Guf, but it's intent is clear.
Preparation for Guf-dissolving is "Old Aeon." It merely "prepares" one for something that will happen. To get on the short path, one dies while still alive. (ref: AC writes, "To put it simply, I died." (1924).
Although the body comes back, and even the persona, something does not (come back).
I recall there are various entities who confront the deceased traveller
This is in the Hall of Hallucinations (astral). The advanced yogi, monk, or street-cleaner, does not get confronted with this stuff if he/she is really "advanced."
I reckon a lot of 'the dead' hang around Malkuth trying to help people as seen in the movie The Sixth Sense.
I did not attend The 6th Sense. Yes, there is this operation, performed at the astral level, where, where dead folks are freed from their attachments. This is beginner's level in other streams of ascension - other than those presented by AC, or even cited in Thodol.
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Your comment is not "blunt." It is normal, good, free advice. I do not know the word Guf, but it's intent is clear.
Guph, physical body.
Preparation for Guf-dissolving is "Old Aeon." It merely "prepares" one for something that will happen. To get on the short path, one dies while still alive. (ref: AC writes, "To put it simply, I died." (1924).
Although the body comes back, and even the persona, something does not (come back).
What, attachments to Ruach?
This is in the Hall of Hallucinations (astral).
What is that place?
I did not attend The 6th Sense. Yes, there is this operation, performed at the astral level, where, where dead folks are freed from their attachments. This is beginner's level in other streams of ascension - other than those presented by AC, or even cited in Thodol.
Its a movie but whoever wrote it has done their research. It's about a small boy coming to grips with his innate psychic mediumship. The dead and recently dead, seek him out so he can help them get closure from their astral sin-bin confinement. It's creepy but brilliant.
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
Shiva said: something does not (come back).
What, attachments to Ruach?
At the level of Binah, this would be correct. But there is no physical death at Binah. The complete and total severance from the physical plane, including Chokmah, is a Kether thing. Thus we find AC citing his "death" in '24. It takes a year or two for ceremonial intentions to manifest in 3D reality.
What is that place?
The bardo of hallucinations is our astral plane.
[. The complete and total severance from the physical plane, including Chokmah, is a Kether thing. Thus we find AC citing his "death" in '24. It takes a year or two for ceremonial intentions to manifest in 3D reality.
But Kether and the nine other Sephirah are on each of the four worlds. When you say 'Kether' you mean Atziluth?
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
But Kether and the nine other Sephirah are on each of the four worlds. When you say 'Kether' you mean Atziluth?
I do not recognize four worlds. I have never encountered more than one world, but it has multiple dimensions. When you die, you are gone. Who asks, "What dimensional world did they die in, or out of?"