The ‘alpha male’ myth, debunked | Frans de Waal - YouTube
Primatologist Frans de Waal inadvertently popularized the term ‘alpha male.’ Now, he’s debunking common stereotypes to explain what an ‘alpha male’ really is – empathetic and protective, an individual who is more likely to break up fights as oppose to going around starting them intimidating others and being a general 'bully'.
I think it has relevance to Thelema and Liber AL.
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
I think it has relevance to Thelema and Liber AL.
For those of us who wonder how potential pop-psychology misinterpretations of a zoological concept dating from several decades after AC's death could have "relevance to Thelema and Liber AL", could you maybe give a us some hint of why you think this?
Well, it Is about "AL" pha males.
This references the My bigger syndrome.
The item may be a wand, a totem pole, a club (stick), a club (group), a bank account or vault of gold, or anything representing power, stature, authority, wisdom, mathematical ability ... that sort of thing. Bigger is, of course, relative to other factors or fakirs that may be bigger yet or smaller still.
For those of us who wonder how potential pop-psychology misinterpretations of a zoological concept dating from several decades after AC's death could have "relevance to Thelema and Liber AL", could you maybe give a us some hint of why you think this?
Because your average person on first reading would interpret some sections of the Book as a Satanic handbook for males following the cruel jock-stereotype..... or worse.... and on drugs.
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
I am wandering now, and getting loster.
I am wandering now, and getting loster.
e.g. 3:18 . Mercy let be off; damn them who pity! Kill and torture; spare not; be upon them!
or (although different gender in relation to thread title)
3:44. But let her raise herself in pride! Let her follow me in my way! Let her work the work of wickedness! Let her kill her heart! Let her be loud and adulterous! Let her be covered with jewels, and rich garments, and let her be shameless before all men!
3:45. Then will I lift her to pinnacles of power:
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
So then: this misunderstanding of a pop-psychology trope rooted in zoology is, you think, somehow related to a misunderstanding of Thelema?
I guess you are saying that dumb people might think one or both of these things, but what does that have to do with us sophisticates here?
Well I perfectly understand what you are bringing up here, and quite worthy of deeper discussion, that for you to be in essence called, though not directly, a dumb sophisticate by Ignant666 which actually is on topic as it demonstrative of a certain bullying attitude, that is sophisticated enough, to be given a pass, but the subject, as you have entered evidence, speaks to a psychological and sociological realm brought up by such quotes from Liber L, which could be by such quotes, that L might well be pronounced Hell.
, but the subject, as you have entered evidence, speaks to a psychological and sociological realm brought up by such quotes from Liber L,
I , what?
I guess you are saying that dumb people might think one or both of these things, but what does that have to do with us sophisticates here?
Kill and torture what?
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
I , what? [....]
Kill and torture what?
Thank you for clarifying; makes perfect sense now.
this misunderstanding of a pop-psychology trope rooted in zoology ,,,
Thank you, I am no longer confused, and I can now see clearlier why I was.
Well I perfectly understand what you are bringing up here
This is problematic. Perfect Understanding is it ? I, who was confused, barely understand the basics of the misunderstandings. I may dwell on it, when I get a break-brake.
... a psychological and sociological realm brought up by such quotes from Liber L, which could be by such quotes, that L might well be pronounced Hell.
Uh-huh. So now we get to the bottom line. We are in Hell, which of course is obvious to any Sophi (wise person) who looks around and takes account. And we Sophis (including almost everyone here if they've done any astral traveling) know there's this fiery uncomfortable place (called the burning ground) that we either get caught up in - or get across. Anybody who is still "walking the path" is operating in this hot zone of purification.
Meanwhile, in domestic reality, anyone can see that the burning planet syndrome is coming to a neighborhood near them.
Thank you for clarifying; makes perfect sense now.
Whew! That was pretty close to the edge of the cliff of no return.
So the basic gist here seems to be that the idea of the Alpha-Male is one of a domineering thug-and AL seems to express some of these thuggish aspects as virtuous in the text. They are almost Commandments. "Be cruel and mean" or suffer the consequences. Then David points toward something which says the real Alpha is someone whose proclivities are more constructive and helpful to others. But doesn't the Book of the Law tell us to refine our rapture and "be not animal?" Ergo, those violent verses in question require more than a literal interpretation. We might say "OTHER THAN" a literal interpretation. This is not to whitewash the text-but to get at some internal harmony within it.
Really, the "Law of the Jungle" is nothing new and-if you will-it is quite "Old Aeon." Thelema is supposed to be about stuff more significant than the invention of the wheel-not a recapitulation of Big Monkeys owning the Little Monkeys. What about respecting the Will of all things?
Of course, Crowley's personal penchant for cruelty and sadism would color how he expressed these ideas in his own life.
Was he an "Alpha Male?" On one hand, he needed to be top dog. On the other, he needed to be debased.
Perhaps this was AC's
burning ground
and we may see in Crowley (even after believing himself to have become Ipsissimus) someone who is yet
operating in this hot zone of purification
But I also think that "we" have multiple identities on multiple planes or levels or dimensions of Being. Crowley seems cognizant of this and draws distinction between himself as Demon and Sage. I also think, as much as they may express or reveal the "Imp," AC's blunt and naked diaries are written by the Sage who wishes to expose everything to the Light. We get to read and opine-but only because he gave us the material to do so.
AC was certainly a different sort of animal...or Beast.
. Then David points toward something which says the real Alpha is someone whose proclivities are more constructive and helpful to others. But doesn't the Book of the Law tell us to refine our rapture and "be not animal?"
AL is not for "the people" as they stood/stand. The fact that a lot of sections of AL are right- on makes me pause when I contemplate the Alpha thug and sadism sections particularly as Crowley, in his comments, describe the first sections of Chapter 3 as symbolism for the warfare involved in meditation.
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
AL is not for "the people" as they stood/stand.
But the "Law is for all" regardless of their having been smited smitten, don't you mean Dom, David? Either before or after they remember to destroy their copy of AL after first reading (or not).
The fact that a lot of sections of AL are right- on [my underline]
According to you, that is?
[...] Alpha thug and sadism sections particularly as Crowley, in his comments, describe the first sections of Chapter 3 as symbolism for the warfare involved in meditation.
You mean, before it says about getting on to the "holier place"? How about dragging down souls to "awful torment ... spit[ting] upon them!" (That's in verse 42 though, somewhat over half-way through said Chapter 3?) Where does this "first section[s]" end?
Hail fellow well met,
Norma N Joy Conquest
Hail fellow well met,
My sight is playing tricks looking into the reflections on the glass waters it seemed to read with my sight or context here as
Had fellows well met!