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dom
 dom
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14/03/2020 12:24 pm  

When I say 'modern art' what I mean is we can all appreciate how incredible The Mona Lisa is and why.  The representation of facial features, the shading, detail of the e.g. locks of hair and the landscape in the background are absolutely incredible.  Likewise any of those Renaissance paintings hold such qualities of excellence.   Turner and the 19th century experimental schools that produced Monet and Manet I'm sure we'd all agree this is amazing artwork.

Then we come to the 20th century and now.  Picasso could  paint like a Renaissance painter (see his early representative work) but then he viewed such work as being obsolete due to the invention of the camera and his work became, on surface, un Renaissance-like.   Duchamp presented a men's urinal (that he didn't sculpt or anything) as a work of art to a gallery and he would later present a lady's shoe with some sort of dog-turd in it and a container involving pubic hair.   Thus the precedent was set where an artist is not necessarily someone who could even get a place on a University art course.  What do you make of that?    


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ignant666
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14/03/2020 12:59 pm  

As usual, your views are those of the average uneducated philistine (cave)man in the the street. You are nothing if not predictable.

And you go right for the jugular with this one. i adore and worship Marcel Duchamp.His work is very very funny, and very very clever. I have been to see the collection at the Philadelphia Museum of Art (which has most of his most important works) many times. Certainly the most important thing to do in Philadelphia, besides getting a cheesesteak (at Pat's only, and not at the xenophobic Geno's across the street).

Duchamp was a devoted chess player, and anyone who wants to buy Comrade ignant a nice  present can feel free to buy me a reproduction of the chess set he designed. Or the original if you are feeling extra-generous

My favorite work of his is the Mona Lisa postcard with a mustache and tiny beard, and the title "L.H.O.O.Q." The letters pronounced in French sound like "Elle a chaud au cul" ("Her ass is hot", colloquial phrase for "She is horny").

It used to be among my several graffiti names back when i used to decorate subway trains for the city. I remember this young black dude asking me "Yo, you that dude writes L'Hooq, right?" (pronouncing it like "Le Hook", like "Le Freak" by Chic) at a graffiti writers' gathering.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/thumb/e/e2/Marcel-duchamp-lhooq-1919-1371340666_b.jpg/225px-Marcel-duchamp-lhooq-1919-1371340666_b.jpg

The urinal signed "R.Mutt", like the altered Mona Lisa, was part of Duchamp's "readymades" series/concept, where he took ordinary objects and with minimal alteration, exhibited them as art works.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Readymades_of_Marcel_Duchamp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.H.O.O.Q.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_(Duchamp)

The purpose was to satirize and ridicule the concept of "art", and ridicule the myth of "artistic genius" and the exaggerated esteem paid to the labor of the artist in creating the work- art, and music, are among the very few fields where performing manual labor is considered precious and valuable.

I could go on literally for days about the greatness of Duchamp. And predictably, i also like most other Dada and Surrealist work, much of Abstract Expressionism, all of Pop Art, especially Warhol and Lichtenstein, and lots of more recent stuff. i sold weed regularly to both Keith Haring and Basquiat, the latter being a truly incredible artist in my opinion (although a total mess as a person), and Keith was very good.


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lashtal
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14/03/2020 1:15 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

As usual, your views are those of the average uneducated philistine (cave)man in the the street. You are nothing if not predictable.

Tone it down, please. There's really no need to start replies with an insult.

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LAShTAL


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ignant666
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14/03/2020 1:42 pm  

Fair enough, just annoyed with the very predictable "They can't even draw- my kid can do better than that! That isn't even art!" attitude, and uninformed slanders on one of my favorite artists.

When AC spoke of "the universe is busy with nothing else", and Masters who've never heard of the A.'. A.'. curriculum, he was talking about people like Duchamp.


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dom
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14/03/2020 2:00 pm  

@ignant666

 

What Lashtal said.  Maybe I wasn't clear enough and/or maybe you're being reactive my mate....... as there was no narrow- minded intent in my OP.  I was discussing narrow-mindedeness towards modern art objectively.  Reread it maybe.   I have a Lichenstein reproduction and a Picasso.   

And you go right for the jugular with this one. i adore and worship Marcel Duchamp

 

Slandering Duchamp?   As a matter of fact I am a fan of, for one,  Duchamp (but not an expert on his work) Koons and the Dadaists and many more including Bacon (the latter who admittedly could not draw or sketch to save his life).  That was my point.  One does not need to be able to paint like DaVinci to prove oneself as a good artist.  Warhol could draw very well indeed actually and as you probably know he made a living as a commercial artist for over a decade before he was internationally known.   Andy however when he was a pop artist was asked if he ever drew but he said no... he was lying..he still drew every day.

Anyway thanks for your input.  Are there any modern artitsts you don't like?  If so, why?


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ignant666
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14/03/2020 2:19 pm  

I do apologize for having misunderstood you, and assuming Daily-Mail-ness when none was intended.

Who don't i like? Good question- i mean, most stuff, by most people, is boring or uninteresting, but not worth disliking.

I think Koons (since you mention him) is silly and over hyped, i dislike Richard Serra's oppressive slabs of steel (they kill art-movers from time to time, being so huge and heavy; the art museum in my town has several); not a huge Picasso fan (i mean i would rate him with Jack Kirby, which is high praise indeed, but not with Warhol or Duchamp); Damien Hirst ditto, very good, but not nearly as good as hyped to be; most performance art besides Chris Burden;  probably lots of other stuff i can't think of right now due to being old.


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Behemoth
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14/03/2020 3:03 pm  

If it looks good, it is good in my books.

 

I stumbled across Thelemic paintings of Kauko Allén not long ago ( http://www.kaukoallen.com/ ) and in my opinion his paintings "tap to the current" in terms of aesthetics and Thelema. I don't know what kind of style this is strictly called.

 

Here are some of Kauko's Thelemic paintings:

 

"This line drawn is a key also" -painting:

 

 

Behold now Behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.


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ignant666
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14/03/2020 3:29 pm  

Very cool stuff, @Behemoth ! Not too common to see "Thelemic art" that actually is art, rather than devotional material! Mrs. Shiva is another example of this "Thelemic art that makes it as art" category.

The second painting seems very a propos to several current discussions here.


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dom
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14/03/2020 4:51 pm  

@behemoth

 

Yeah that looks good as does any of the Thoth Tarot pack and I like AC's art particularly his drawings.

@ignant666

I do apologize for having misunderstood you, and assuming Daily-Mail-ness when none was intended.

No problem.

 

I think anyone could present any object to an art gallery but  they'd have to back it up intellectually. 

I think Koons (since you mention him) is silly and over hyped,

 

I think he would agree that he's over-hyped and probably say that that is the point.   I like Koons.  I think Duchamp is his idol as it were.  Koons put vacuum cleaners in an art gallery. 

I've never heard of Serra but Kirby and all of the Marvel Universe artists I rate highly. 

 Damien Hirst ditto, very good, but not nearly as good as hyped to be

Hirst is a great example of where I was going in the OP.   He admits he could never paint, was never good at anything in school but could draw a little and he is now considered to be one of 'the greatest artists' of our time.    I can see how he probably got the shark idea from Koons's basketball in tank. 

Blixa Bargeld said that a lot of musicians get into the art scene as a way of being taken a serious artists.  I actually like Marylin Manson's watercolours;   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bz49FuDjIs

A lot of musicians (especially punks) were primarily artists/painters.   Townshend, Lennon and Richards for example were at art school. 

I saw one of Don Van Viliet's (Beefheart) paintings and it was literally two brush strokes something like dark purple and gold underneath.  It grabbed me.  

What was it about Orridge's exhibition work that you didn't rate?   


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ignant666
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14/03/2020 5:11 pm  

The foundations of British rock are 1) art schools with liberal admission standards providing students with a steady flow of interesting ideas and low expectations of productivity (=free time, the only true wealth according to Marx), and 2) the fact that pubs used to be allowed to be open past 11 if they had live music (=plenty of shows available).

Many of the early US punk bands were composed of artists, and pretty much all of the subsequent NYC "No Wave" scene were artists; this remains true of most NYC stuff that takes itself seriously. Conversely, i know lots of folks who identify primarily as musicians who do visual art too.

The most famous example, Talking Heads, were students at the ultra-prestigious Rhode Island School of Design (slightly down a very steep hill from Tiger) when they started the band originally known as The Artistics. That already sounds like The Autistics in a New England accent, and i think they changed the name to get out from under that universal nickname. David Byrne's senor RISD project was maps of the 50 US states done on Etch-A-Sketches- autistic, moi?

Genesis P. Orridge does art? News to me- i only know of him as a repellent toad-person, who creates ultra-pretentious crap work in multiple media.

Here is a pretty typical example of Serra's work- giant steel plates that look like they might fall on you (and sometimes they do):

http://annex.guggenheim.org/collections/media/490/GBM2004.8_ph_web.jpg


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Shiva
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14/03/2020 5:31 pm  
Posted by: @dom

When I say 'modern art'

When you say Modern Art, you run on about Arty details, but I found nothing related to AC or the stuff associated with him. Yet you START a thread of unrelated content. Please submit a list of your excuses.


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dom
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14/03/2020 6:49 pm  

@shiva

When you say Modern Art, you run on about Arty details, but I found nothing related to AC or the stuff associated with him. Yet you START a thread of unrelated content. Please submit a list of your excuses.

….which is why I put in  the 'Stuff' section.

 

@ignant666

The foundations of British rock are 1) art schools with liberal admission standards providing students with a steady flow of interesting ideas and low expectations of productivity (=free time, the only true wealth according to Marx), and 2) the fact that pubs used to be allowed to be open past 11 if they had live music (=plenty of shows available)

In other words it's  a substitute form of welfare I get it. 

The most famous example, Talking Heads,

Yes and Devo was initially not a band that sold (vinyl) records but an art concept.


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ignant666
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14/03/2020 7:06 pm  
Posted by: @dom

In other words it's  a substitute form of welfare I get it. 

Um, no. During the glory days of British rock, there was no need for "a substitute form of welfare", since there was a very direct, freely available source of welfare welfare, "the dole", available from 1948-88 (in various forms, and varying degrees of stinginess) to anyone of working age with a low income.

Going to art school, and hustling gigs in pubs, required at least some effort, and can't fairly be called "welfare". People who are dog-tired from work don't get up to much painting or guitar practice, because they are too tired- creativity needs free time, and free space to work in.

A child bent over a lathe, or unloading trucks, or whatever, 40+ hours a week got no time to be crowned and conquering.

Re Devo: Yes, a fine example of US art-student rock. They originally got going because of the Kent State shootings of college students protesting the Viet-nam war ("four dead in Ohio"), and had to wait until punk until anyone understood or liked them.


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Shiva
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14/03/2020 7:08 pm  
Posted by: @dom

….which is why I put in  the 'Stuff' section.

"Stuff" is supposed to be "remotely" related to AC. I could make such a link, but you didn't. This is not Twitter for Spring Birds.

 


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dom
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14/03/2020 7:31 pm  

Re Devo: Yes, a fine example of US art-student rock. They originally got going because of the Kent State shootings of college students protesting the Viet-nam war ("four dead in Ohio"), and had to wait until punk until anyone understood or liked them.

Nice.  How about Laurie Anderson?  I like Michael Gira's record designs for his own band. 

...and now onto Michael Alig's gallery displays.....

 

or maybe not. 


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ignant666
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14/03/2020 7:53 pm  
Posted by: @dom

...and now onto Michael Alig's gallery displays.....

 

or maybe not.

Not. Do not approve. A close friend/ex-disciple (the academic kind) was his accomplice and did 19 years, so i am prejudiced. They have not spoken since they got out of prison (did their time in different places).

Gira i always liked but thought was a bit precious, nothing in the 40 years since i met him as a young Bowie wannabe has changed my mind. He attended two of my birthday parties when i was a law student (the one he wasn't invited to was all women- well, and me). Later, he fired all my friends who were in his band except (last time i checked) Norman Westberg the guitarist. As a visual artist i know nothing about him.

To try to steer this to some Thelemic-related content, what are any artist artists doing work with Thelemic content/relevance, besides that person posted above, Lady Frieda Harris, Spare, that Australian woman whose name slips my mind, Marjorie Cameron, and Mrs Shiva?


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djedi
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14/03/2020 8:19 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

i dislike Richard Serra's oppressive slabs of steel (they kill art-movers from time to time, being so huge and heavy

Do they become more valuable for every worker they kill?

Posted by: @ignant666

what are any artist artists doing work with Thelemic content/relevance

Mitchell Nolte isn't a big rockstar artiste, but he has done some paintings of AC; they aren't overflowing with symbolism, but they're relevant enough to the Aleister Crowley Society's interests, I think.

image

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Tiger
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14/03/2020 8:35 pm  

Michael Bertiaux

Image result for michael bertiaux paintings

 

Kyle Fite

Image result for Spirit Window of the Eastern Gate (without Sigil)

 

 


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ignant666
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14/03/2020 8:50 pm  

Is Kyle Fite the person who used to post here as @obscuruspaintus ? A very similar style if not.


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ignant666
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14/03/2020 9:03 pm  

Genesis P. just died this morning.

https://www.facebook.com/psychictvptv3/posts/2654403268125428


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The HGA of a Duck
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14/03/2020 9:07 pm  

@ignant666

🙁

 


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Tiger
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14/03/2020 9:33 pm  

Kyle Fite is Kidneyhawk i believe.

Steffi Grant

image

Ivy ( Shiva's Wife )

image

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dom
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14/03/2020 9:38 pm  

@ignant666

 

Gira....

 

You mean Jarboe and Mossiman? 

As a visual artist i know nothing about him.

 

He did SWANS record covers didn't he?

 

Thelemic art if it's anything like Thelemic music (Death in June, Current 93, Psychic TV , Coil)  ie pitiful...then I'll pass.


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Tiger
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ignant666
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14/03/2020 9:55 pm  

Looking at the wikipedia personnel chart, the Swans i know/hung out with were pretty much everyone who was ever in the band before the mid-90s when Mikey shook things up. Rolli and Jarboe not particularly well. Algis, Norman, Teddy, Vinny, Harry, and Mojo are the ones i know best; Phil i know from Cop Shoot Cop, but i see he has been a Swan for a while. i actually forgot Mojo was even ever in Swans; we used to be bouncers together at an after-hours. He is the subject of Beastie Boys "Egg Raid On Mojo". He was second-best man (best man being the late John Berry, who wrote "Egg Raid") when i married the current wife.

As to Gira doing Swans covers- i think i might own one Swans CD in a box somewhere, and zero vinyl. I don't think i've ever really listened to any Swans records. If he did their album covers, i probably have never seen them.

They were just guys that i would hang out with drinking and getting into trouble, and would go to their shows just because they were my friends and they were playing and they were good, so i knew it would be worth going. i certainly would not pay to see a Swans show, but i would never have to. i never paid much attention to Mikey's antics/vocals as i was too busy making mental notes of mistakes to give his band shit about.

Enough art-rockism- Back to art art: Keep 'em coming please!


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dom
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14/03/2020 10:02 pm  

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=robert+williams+artist&sxsrf=ALeKk00Imv0cBl76j7dowu1--ByPMCIJ6w:1584223207953&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_gris-5roAhWai1wKHZarC4EQ_AUoAXoECBsQAw

 

Robert Williams he did the artwork used by Guns N Roses.  He's a crazy hippy I think he knew Crumb when they were younger.   I'm still looking for his Requiem for a tit man on the internet. 


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ignant666
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14/03/2020 10:27 pm  

Like Robert Williams' work a lot, smoked a few with him at NYC openings in maybe ?the early '90s? I have a print of this one with no wall space to fit it. He is more of a greaser/hot rod guy who hung out with hippies in the '60s because they had good drugs than an actual hippie.

image

Félicien Rops might appeal to many here. His painting is often rather dull, but his drawing and illustration works are pretty cool, with much diabolic/occult subject matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9licien_Rops

 


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kidneyhawk
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14/03/2020 10:43 pm  
Posted by: @tiger

Kyle Fite is Kidneyhawk i believe

You believe correctly.

 


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dom
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14/03/2020 10:53 pm  

He is more of a greaser/hot rod guy who hung out with hippies in the '60s because they had good drugs than an actual hippie.

 

Oh I see like Ed Roth who was also mind-blowing? 


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ignant666
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14/03/2020 11:13 pm  

Exactly.

Shiva was another one of those greaser-hot rod types, although my impression is that he never had to hang out with hippies to get good drugs. Lot of 'em in California late '50s-early '60s.

My late mom used to have a giant painting by Thierry Poncelet hanging in her living room (my brother has it now)- a bit kitsch, but amusing and amazing technique. This isn't it, but you will get the central concept of his work, many here like images of people with animal heads:

image

Looking around my house for inspiration as to "what art do i like?", i only have art by my friends that you never heard of, old prints, and ethnographic items.


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The HGA of a Duck
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15/03/2020 5:07 am  
Posted by: @dom

What do you make of that?

What I appreciate about modern art is the "out-of-the-box" thinking ("The Khabs is in the Khu, not the Khu in the Khabs"). Its something I aspire to but it doesn't come naturally to me. Artists seem to have the same kind of understanding you get from "mystical" development and in my younger days this might have made me a bit jealous that this understanding came so easily to them, without having to read a bunch of arcane books. I remember Jeff Koons saying that his art is about "acceptance", which is sort of another word for "understanding" (Binah, Babalon). Artists may not know all the mystic mumbo-jumbo but they're talking about the same thing.

 

Posted by: @ignant666

artists doing work with Thelemic content/relevance

I haven't seen much specifically Thelemic art, there seem to be a lot more artist doing "Esoteric" art in general. One of the best known is probably Alex Grey, you've probably seen his trippy stuff around.

You can find some lesser known artists on DeviantArt by searching "thelema". Some of them are quite good but you'll have to scroll through a lot of garbage (I upload some of my humble "artworks" there so you might want to skip those 😊 ).

This is my latest attempt at "Thelemic Art":

paste0

(if the solutions to the riddles of Liber AL don't lead to something like the "Stargate" sequence from Kubrick's 2001, I'm not interested 😉 )

 

Posted by: @djedi

Mitchell Nolte

I like it.

I've seen his DeviantArt page before but I must have missed this one. I always forget that AC was role-playing (LARPing) as an Orientalist fantasy version of a Persian when I picture him writing Liber AL.


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Shiva
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15/03/2020 6:41 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

Shiva was another one of those greaser-hot rod types

image

 

image

We didn't know what a "greaser" was; it was not part of our vocabulary. We knew what a "hot-rod" was, though. American Graffiti was set in some farming town up in the San Juoacin Valley, but those towns were all copies of Van Nuys Blvd on a Saturday night in the San Fernando Valley. By the way, the film is absolutely accurate in its portrayal of reality for supernal teenagers and neophytical adults in those days.

Drugs? There were no drugs involved. There were no beer parties. There was no heavy drinking. There was a hit or two from a pint bottle. Nobody smoked nothing.

The parade down Van Nuys Blvd was the thing. The races out in the underpopulated West valley were the occult scene.

The "practices" involved tuning, and adding things like extra carburetors and magneto ignition devices, so that your rod would accelerate as fast as possible. Top end speed was not a concern (that came later - 1986 - when I graduated to a series of Z-cars).

From here to there. Usually one block out in the West Valley where there were cows. One block. One quarter mile. Start from STOP. Push the pedal and shift the gears (fast - "speed shifting"), and hold on to your hat.

No wimpy automatic transmissions.

 


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Alan_OBrien
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15/03/2020 7:05 pm  

@dom

Have you seen Koons's ex-wife? She's the ex-pornstar Cicciolina.

Whatever he is doing (and I am not a fan) if it brings that sort of result then how can one criticize?

 


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ignant666
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15/03/2020 7:44 pm  

They in fact did a porn film together, i think long enough ago that actual film may have been involved.

A not bad looking woman in her prime, when they were married.

image

But she has always had weird eyes that have gotten weirder with age, and may be as crazy as a bedbug (but not so crazy, as, say, a shit-house rat). Sex work is seldom good for folks' mental health, whatever Aiwass may have though about the subject.

image

She was also a one-term member of the Italian parliament, where i do not believe she distinguished herself in either legislation, or the occasional punch-ups they have where the security guards stand in front of the cameras after it gets bad.

As ex-wives go, one could do worse.

 


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dom
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15/03/2020 8:21 pm  

Yeah Ciccilina was part of Jefff's fame art-project then he fell in love with her.  It didn't last,it all went very sour when the lawyers got involved.    

 

Latin and/or Italian parliament fights and Russian oligarchs on TV fighting yep, always  funny.  I'd love Corbyn to kneck-grip Johnson or Rees-Mogg.  Imagine that on live TV.  


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ignant666
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15/03/2020 8:33 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Imagine that on live TV.  

Trump is the first pro-wresting President.

He used to be, in the '80s, a "heel" ["bad-guy"] character within the scripted drama that was then called the World Wresting Federation. His character was as a rich guy from NYC named "Mr. Trump" (a showbiz role he later developed with his "Apprentice" show, and his current Presidency), who "managed" i forget what wrestler. His big finale was shaving WWF CEO's Vince McMahon Jr's head in the ring at Madison Square Garden as a pay-off for a "kayfabe" [fake scripted] bet.

But politician cage-matches would be a surefire hit in any country. That is the kind of performance art i can get behind.


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dom
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15/03/2020 8:44 pm  

@ignant666

That is the kind of performance art i can get behind

Haha.  Maybe that happened in Greece or Rome before Christ?

@alan_obrien

Whatever he is doing (and I am not a fan) if it brings that sort of result then how can one criticize?

 

We have a poster here 'elitemachinery' who tell you whether shacking up with an adult movie actress is a desirable thing or not as he worked in the industry.  You may find this thread useful;

https://www.lashtal.com/forums/stuff/pornstars-who-have-college-degrtees-adults-only/#post-102373

 

  


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ignant666
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15/03/2020 8:55 pm  

It may be ungracious as a Yankee to cast aspersions on UK politicians, but, since you mention it, that Jacob Rees-Mogg has an eminently wringable neck.

image

He is a classic example of what WWF god "Classy" Freddy Blassy summed up in song as a "Pencil Neck Geek".

You see, if you take a pencil that won't hold lead,
Looks like a pipe-cleaner attached to a head,
Add a buggy-whip body, with a brain that leaks,
You got yourself a grit-eatin', pencil neck geek.

(chorus)
Pencil neck geek, grit-eatin' freak.
Scum-suckin' pea-head with a lousy physique.
He's a one-man, no-gut, losing streak.
Nothin' but a pencil neck geek.

https://youtu.be/b1LmuCf3aJY

 


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dom
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15/03/2020 9:59 pm  

Hahahar that video is one of the funniest things I've checked out all year.  Wtf is that?  


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ignant666
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15/03/2020 10:39 pm  
image

"Classy" Freddie Blassie (i am mortified to have misspelled the name of the "King Of Men") was one of the greatest "heel" wrestlers of all time, and went on to be one of the greatest "heel" managers.

Here he is in a promo as a touring wrestler, doing a local TV interview where he says all the women wherever he's appearing that night are "pigs, who look like they're wearing a potato sack". And all the local men are "pencil necks". Of course, he would do the exact same interview with every local TV station in every town he appeared in.

The goal was of course to get lots of angry folks to buy tickets so they could heckle him because he made them so angry. More hopping mad folks in town, more tickets sold. And of course some depraved folk (like me) bought tickets to cheer the "heels".

This is the job of a "heel" (the nice-guy opponent of a heel is a "face" (short for "babyface")), besides "cheating" in scripted matches when the referee is looking at some woman in the front row, or squinting into the lights, or has been accidentally "knocked out" by the "face".

Trump, to give credit where due, was the first to realize that a "heel" character running for office could do very well with American conservatives.

Wrestling is definitely a form of theater ("theatre" for you Brits), so we have not gone astray from the arts writ large.


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dom
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15/03/2020 10:49 pm  

Trump was into wrestling?  I thought you were joking until I researched it;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkghtyxZ6rc

 


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ignant666
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15/03/2020 11:00 pm  

See also

Trump is a textbook heel. In fact, almost everything he’s done since announcing his candidacy in June 2015 has a pro-wrestling analogue, from his attacks on Mexicans and women to his Islamophobic attitude toward Muslims. Like a heel, he’s broken rules of political discourse and conduct, then accused his opponents of doing the same thing. Most notably, he complained of a system that was rigged against him until he won the ultimate prize, like a heel that complains about a referee’s bias until the same referee doesn’t catch him cheating. At no time during the campaign or the transition has Trump been playing by the rules of politics: He’s been playing—and winning—by the rules of pro wrestling.

https://slate.com/culture/2016/12/donald-trump-learned-his-political-moves-from-wwe.html

To correct two grave historical errors, Vince McMahon Jr's pro-wrestling promotion had shifted from being called the World Wrestling Federation to being called World Wrestling Entertainment by the time Trump moved beyond occasional promo interviews into being a full-fledged, scripted character within the promotion. And it wasn't til the dawn of the new millenium that this shift happened, not in the '80s, when he was still a fringe part of wrestling.

The shift from "WWF" to "WWE", BTW, came when some state athletic departments were thinking of regulating pro wrestling just like they do boxing, and so they changed the name to made it clear it was theater (again, "theatre" for you Brits), not sports.


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djedi
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15/03/2020 11:24 pm  

My favorite WWE storyline was when Vince McMahon wrestled God.

A relatively new WWE wrestler (from the Netherlands, I think) is an occultist character named Aleister Black, and if I recall it was Vince who came up with the name after hearing the gimmick.


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dom
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15/03/2020 11:31 pm  

The British love their wrestling.  It used to be on TV live for hours every Saturday.  These two guys were the most well known;

 

Big Daddy versus Giant Haystacks

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DSro4l_0cE


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ignant666
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16/03/2020 1:40 am  

Classic, complete with face "accidentally" "knocking out" ref, and when he goes to help the poor man, don't you know that nasty heel takes advantage, and attacks him from behind.

Don't know either from a hole in the ground, but within seconds "Ah, Giant Haystacks is the heel, i think. Yup, Big Daddy coming out with a little girl leading him, definite face."

Wrestling was better before the budgets went up. Cindy Lauper ruined everything.


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wellreadwellbred
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16/03/2020 2:38 pm  

dom: What are your views on modern art? [...] the precedent was set where an artist is not necessarily someone who could even get a place on a University art course.  What do you make of that?"

Personally I like the following modern art form, dom, what is your views on this modern art form??:

"Superrealism, also known as Hyper-realism, is an art movement that began in the late 1960s and early 1970s, in which the paintings, or sculptures, resemble a high resolution photograph." (Source: The Arts in New York City Macaulay Honors College at CUNY Hunter – Fall 2009[:] Superrealism - - - https://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/weinroth2009/2009/09/23/superrealism/

 

 

heard out of control small 72dpi Med

"Out Of Control" - 1991-2002: oil on canvas, 24 x 72, artist Bill Heard (1953 - ).

 

 

paradise 72dpi Med

"Paradise" - 2003: oil on masonite, h: 36 x w: 72, artist Bill Heard (1953 - ).

 

IMG 0890 crop

Bill Heard (1953 - ) and Jeff Koons (1955 - ), photo: Tiffany Sage.


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dom
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16/03/2020 11:36 pm  

Personally I like the following modern art form, dom, what is your views on this modern art form??:

What is it?  How do they do it?  


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wellreadwellbred
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17/03/2020 8:03 pm  

dom: "What is it?" :

'Photorealism Super Realism, Hyper Realism Art Movement | Photorealism Super Realism, Art Video Demo' - - - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMa2r4d7EgE

 

dom: "How do they do it?":

'Meet Arinze Stanley, Nigeria's Famous Hyper-Realistic Artist | Business Insider By Pulse' - - - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kttn4qq7W3c

 

'Hyperrealism Irish Landscape by Eduardo Moctezuma' - - - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKf0LOZ8s0Q


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wellreadwellbred
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17/03/2020 8:38 pm  

dom: "How do they do it?":

'PHOTOREALISM - IN THE DIGITAL AGE'  - - - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x58_sFJezmM


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wellreadwellbred
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17/03/2020 8:58 pm  

dom: "What is it?" :

'Photorealism at Deutsche Guggenheim' - - - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFhJRfJUcUM  


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