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David Dom Lemieux
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The link below is about the origins of Xmas in Europe.  Here's some excerpts; 

 

Saturnalia, held in mid-December, is an ancient Roman pagan festival honoring the agricultural god Saturn. Saturnalia celebrations are the source of many of the traditions we now associate with Christmas..........

Saturnalia, the most popular holiday on the ancient Roman calendar, derived from older farming-related rituals of midwinter and the winter solstice, especially the practice of offering gifts or sacrifices to the gods during the winter sowing season............

 

During Saturnalia, work and business came to a halt. Schools and courts of law closed, and the normal social patterns were suspended.

People decorated their homes with wreaths and other greenery, and shed their traditional togas in favor of colorful clothes known as synthesis. Even slaves did not have to work during Saturnalia, but were allowed to participate in the festivities; in some cases, they sat at the head of the table while their masters served them.

Saturnalia - HISTORY

 

I guess it's slightly relevant to this forum as Crowley favoured Paganism over what followed.  

 

 

 

 

This topic was modified 1 month ago by David Dom Lemieux

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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katrice
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Don't forget that the birth of Mithras has been attributed to this day, and the last day of Pancha Ganapati is today too. 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice

Don't forget that the birth of Mithras has been attributed to this day, and the last day of Pancha Ganapati is today too. 

Celebrating Ganesha and Saturn at this time, aren't they both associated with Satan?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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AhihChiva567
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

H.          N

        - Mary X-mas to all of you!

V.           T

Love is the law, love under will.


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katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux
Posted by: @katrice

Don't forget that the birth of Mithras has been attributed to this day, and the last day of Pancha Ganapati is today too. 

Celebrating Ganesha and Saturn at this time, aren't they both associated with Satan?

Saturn yes, and Mithras too, to some. I'm not sure about Ganesh, though I've seen Shiva associated with Satan. Maybe Ganesh's trishula could be interpreted as a Satanic symbol, like it has been with Shiva?


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AhihChiva567
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@katrice when we say Satan, do we also mean NChSh? I mean, like the Serpent?


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katrice
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Posted by: @ahihchiva567

@katrice when we say Satan, do we also mean NChSh? I mean, like the Serpent?

I'm not certain what Dom's interpretation is, but I prefer to see Satan as the Adversary, the tester on one hand, but also as the force that presides over the Immanent, in the sense of the Immanent branch of the Left Hand Path. Those two aspects are not necessarily mutually exclusive, naturally.  


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AhihChiva567
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@david-dom-lemieux what were you referring to? It does get confusing. 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @ahihchiva567

@david-dom-lemieux what were you referring to? It does get confusing. 

You want a precise definition of Satan?  I don't know that's why I asked Katrice.  I think I read that Ganesha unlocks obstacles, I received His help once by getting rid of a (then perceived) pain in the ass workmate.

Satan is the Great Accountant who reaps debts? Isn't that Saturn also?  The Reaper,  quite fitting for this (perceived) end of year time.  People become miserable as the alcohol and chocolate-high wears off, they then assess the year they just spent and then feel miserable about it and take it out on each other.  Season of 'good will to all men'? Yeah right.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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AhihChiva567
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@david-dom-lemieux The symbolism is leaning towards Pan, or Baphomet maybe.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Celebrating Ganesha and Saturn at this time, aren't they both associated with Satan?

Ganesha the Elephant-headed Dumbo-deity was/is the son of Shiva - he does not associate with Satan(ists or isms). Now the other kid is named Subramanyam, but the esotericists call him Sanat Kumara. Pleas have fun manipulating Sanat to make your point, Qabalistically. 

Saturn is only confused with Satan by the feeble-minded and the worn-out.

Posted by: @katrice

I've seen Shiva associated with Satan.

This association was provided by the Sunday-School Do-Gooder Missionary-Acolytes who were trying to convert the Hindoos to the Religion of the Risen-Corpse.

But the Hindoos don't buy it, believe it, or sell it. Everybody in Hindoo-Booda land knows that the archetypal evil-doer enemy is Mara. Mara is equivalent to "our" Choronzon, who is not associated with any date, and who can getcha anytime.

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

It does get confusing. 

This is what happens when folks fuck around with the Holy Hindoo Names, confusing them with Western Superstitions.

The bottom point, er, the upper line is that the Holy Brethren of Nice got together and agreed to lump/converge all Winter-type festivals into one, symbolized by a manger, a star, some cows and donkeys, and the Three Guys from the East ... and please buy our beer!

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

 

Saturn is only confused with Satan by the feeble-minded and the worn-out.

This association was provided by the Sunday-School Do-Gooder Missionary-Acolytes who were trying to convert the Hindoos to the Religion of the Risen-Corpse.

But the Hindoos don't buy it, believe it, or sell it

I am well aware of this, and that was the sense in which I meant my response.  It's really as absurd as saying that Hades is the Greek Satan.  

Some people also think that since Shiva is the Destroyer, that makes him the "evil" god. 😡 

 

But actual gods of evil in real world pantheons are pretty rare, unless you count beings like titans, giants, asura, and similar. 

Posted by: @shiva

 

. Everybody in Hindoo-Booda land knows that the archetypal evil-doer enemy is Mara. Mara is equivalent to "our" Choronzon, who is not associated with any date, and who can getcha anytime.

I am aware of this as well.  Modern manifestations of this could be Stephen Mace's interpretation of the Demiurge, and, maybe, Ginsberg's Moloch. 

 


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AhihChiva567
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Is this all to say Old Saint Nick is a possible cover story for Satan, too? The Tree, and all?


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @ahihchiva567

Is this all to say Old Saint Nick is a possible cover story for Satan, too? The Tree, and all?

I thought the Tree came from Yggdrasil and likewise the Santa with flying reindeers bearing gifts was derived from Nordic or Siberian mushroom (Amanita muscaria) shamans.    Presumably Saint Nicholas championed charity for the downtrodden.   Eugenicist Charles Dickens continued that tradition with the classic  A Christmas Carol  story.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux
Posted by: @ahihchiva567

Is this all to say Old Saint Nick is a possible cover story for Satan, too? The Tree, and all?

I thought the Tree came from Yggdrasil and likewise the Santa with flying reindeers bearing gifts was derived from Nordic or Siberian mushroom (Amanita muscaria) shamans.    

There is Odin's name of Bolverkr.    😉   


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AhihChiva567
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@katrice Is that All Father? I'm not real good with that stuff. If so, IAO, and you got that whole eye thing, huh?

I suppose the mushrooms could have been the forbidden fruit, you know, Satan (Santa) bearing gifs of consciousness. 


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katrice
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Posted by: @ahihchiva567

@katrice Is that All Father? I'm not real good with that stuff. If so, IAO, and you got that whole eye thing, huh?

Bolverkr translates to "Evil Worker".  

 

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

I suppose the mushrooms could have been the forbidden fruit, you know, Satan (Santa) bearing gifs of consciousness. 

 There is a theory that entheogens are the origin of sapient consciousness, so a comparison with the forbidden fruit would come naturally from that.

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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The A Christmas Carol story is about an industrious financially powerful abusive man whose meanness and misery has increased since his girlfriend left him years ago.    Although the Bolsheviks admired Dickens there is nothing wrong with much missed Victorian values such as counting one's  blessings and not buying stupid things that you dont really need (Crowley also advocated these values but he blew his fortune rapidly so..)  Was that Ebeneezer's HGA intervening (at Xmas)  to turn him around by jolting/scaring him out of his pits of darkness?   

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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AhihChiva567
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@katrice "Evil Woker" for doing his own work, consciousness. Crucified himself to himself and set Himself free. That's a real baddie, for sure.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

It's really as absurd as saying that Hades is the Greek Satan.

Which is untrue. The Great Satan is The United States of America and Puerto Rico, a U.S. Territory.

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

Is this all to say Old Saint Nick is a possible cover story for Satan, too?

This is true. Sainta Santa punishes bad children by leaving a lump of coal in their sock.

 


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AhihChiva567
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@david-dom-lemieux Ebenezer had a date with fate, and his HGA sought to enlighten him to the bigger picture of life - human relationships, love, genuine appreciation of other's, and the willingness to give. A wonderful story. 


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