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Shiva
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21/03/2020 5:26 am  
Now that we have reached the first stage of the next End of the World, brought to us courtesy of The Cosmic Changeover, many people are seeking a faster return on their quest for salvation, or liberation, or enlightenment. So I wrote a clever sutra to cut through any confusion. It's the same stuff I wrote before, but merely in a different way.

 The Short Path is just an Appendix, but it is also a stand-alone epistle that I wanted you to have ... before it goes out of print.

It is here ...

 


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Tiger
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21/03/2020 12:42 pm  

"This inner authority acts in internal or external direction: messages, data, proposals. It is the functional aspect of how we make decisions, regardless of how the conscious mind gets involved, or how it likes to takes credit for the decision-making.
This inner authority is not developed by practices or by mentally concentrating upon it. It is a built-in, embedded mechanism. Once a person learns which "type" they are, they can learn to work more effectively with it.
Everyone has a different program for contacting the Angel, for conducting the dialog, and for separating the experience into gold and illusion.

It may hurt when the “imprint” is made. This is the contact point that creates one's gateway to, or “anchor point” on, the causal plane. It is an entryway into extraterrestrial realms.15 This is also known as "activating" the 5th, holistic, circuit. It can be cannabis-induced.

(15) This does not mean anyone will be abducted by aliens. It means access to
abstract thought forms that are not related to daily life on the hard surface."

Great PDF !


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dom
 dom
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21/03/2020 1:59 pm  

@shiva

 

Historically, there have been a rather high number of initiates who have taken advantage of this literally liberal loophole license for exclusion from doing the work, including ...
Frater Achad, Frater Belarion,

 

But Parson's left us his records which show all manner of evocation, invoking/banishing Pentagram work, Enochian work and so on.   


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Shiva
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21/03/2020 4:51 pm  
Posted by: @dom

But Parson's left us his records which show all manner of evocation, invoking/banishing Pentagram work, Enochian work and so on.  

Completing parts of the curriculum does not mean completing the entire curriculum. In particular, we see a lot of Outer Order work, but there seems to be an Angel missing. This appears to be JumpClaiming.


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dom
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21/03/2020 4:54 pm  

Oh an Angel missing for Parsons,I thought different, thanks. 


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Michael Staley
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21/03/2020 5:12 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

but there seems to be an Angel missing.

Probably with a myriad others, dancing on a pinhead nearby.


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Shiva
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21/03/2020 5:50 pm  
Posted by: @michael-staley

dancing on a pinhead

Jason Mask Vector 3 Pack Hockey Mask Clip Art Horror | Etsy


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Michael Staley
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21/03/2020 6:00 pm  

I used to play with Rubic Cubes incessantly in the 1980s, hoping to hit upon the configuration that would enable me to meet Pinhead and the gang.


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Tiger
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21/03/2020 7:09 pm  

@Michael Staley
Were you immersed in the Astral Fluid at the time ?


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Michael Staley
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22/03/2020 12:15 am  
Posted by: @tiger

Were you immersed in the Astral Fluid at the time ?

Not knowingly.


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christibrany
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22/03/2020 10:17 pm  

'We have such sights to show you' 

 

Barker actually wrote a sequel to the hellraiser novella The Hellbound Heart, called The Scarlet Gospels which came out in 2015.  I read it recently, it was really good.  The main character goes to Hell to take on Pinhead, who himself is taking on Satan. 


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christibrany
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22/03/2020 10:34 pm  

@Shiva

I just read the first half of the pdf.  It is very useful thank you.

 

I think I had a vision of my HGA, which you are calling the Vision of Adonai, in a dream about a year or two ago.  

He appeared as the owner or worker of a curiosity shop, a neat man in his 60s or 70s with white hair and a suit and glasses.  I got that identification of him as a form of the HGA due to the energy and calmness and fortitude I received from merely being in his presence. 

 

I don't think it was my first such vision but it was one that stuck with me more. 

 

I particularly liked the bit about the Star, and the Path.  It was unique in my reading, at least in current memory. In regards to the horizon and degrees. 


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dom
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22/03/2020 11:25 pm  

@christibrany

 

I think I had a vision of my HGA, which you are calling the Vision of Adonai, in a dream about a year or two ago.
He appeared as the owner or worker of a curiosity shop, a neat man in his 60s or 70s with white hair and a suit and glasses. I got that identification of him as a form of the HGA due to the energy and calmness and fortitude I received from merely being in his presence.

 

That sounds like a dream not an actual vision which is a wake-dream imo.   I'd say that one doesn't 'have visions' in dreams, what you have there is a nap, some zzzzzzzzs, some 'shut eye'.  That's just my opinion but I am open to being convinced otherwise. 

 


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Jamie J Barter
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23/03/2020 12:56 am  
Posted by: @michael-staley

I used to play with Rubic Cubes incessantly in the 1980s, hoping to hit upon the configuration that would enable me to meet Pinhead and the gang.

Wasn't it a "Puzzle Box" that was used, Mick, rather than a Rubik's Cube?  Or were you just being incredibly optimistic!?

NormaN Joy Conquest


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Shiva
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23/03/2020 1:09 am  
Posted by: @dom

That sounds like a dream not an actual vision which is a wake-dream

There are those author-authorities who say the first degree (Vision of ADNI) can take place during sleep, but the third (5=6) must be undertaken in full, waking consciousness. They also say that because of this (assumption), anyone can easily be a 1=10 or 2=9 and not even know it.

But from what I've seen in people over the past 55 years (the time I've been involved in this trashy nonsense), most everyone who thought they were an initiate (formal initiate or school of hard-solo knocks)  was an initiate. It showed in their aura. Everybody gets a badge along with their imprint, to pin or drape or hang somewhere in their energy field. So they carried the proper papers, but didn't talk about their critical, initiatory Visions.

I never pushed this point. You don't ask people for their birth cert or drivers license when you meet them for the first time. But I pried it out of a few who got in close enough. It is variable (the ADNI Vision). The one thing it has in common with everyone is, they know there's something spiritual and they're connected to it.

Discerning between a glimpse of gnosis, and a case ok "knowing" because some Baptist minister pounded it in, in another person can be tricky.

Posted by: @dom

I am open to being convinced otherwise. 

Please report to the torture chamber at 6:00 AM tomorrow morning. Go alone ... you don't want to be shot for congregating.


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dom
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23/03/2020 1:20 am  

@shiva

 

Ok.  I found some comments on this by Jim Eshelman also;

 

http://www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10085&p=65005&hilit=+vision+adonai#p65005


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Shiva
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23/03/2020 6:24 pm  
Posted by: @dom

I found some comments on this by Jim Eshelman also;

Right. Look, it's simple ...

1. First step. Vision of ADNO (HGA). A "fist glimpse" of the "higher self." No dialog, conversation, or chit-chat.

2. Second step: K&C of HGA. Dialog. Good-bye Gururu; hello Inner Guidance. The exact type of communication varies with each person.

3. Step three. Direct perception. (gnosis)(intuition). No guru, no angel. Paradoxical to the human mind, which cannot figure it out.

Three steps, three grades: Hermit, Lover, Man o' the Earth.

 


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dom
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24/03/2020 10:25 am  

@shiva

2. Second step: K&C of HGA. Dialog. Good-bye Gururu; hello Inner Guidance. The exact type of communication varies with each person.

Is this what Deepak Choppra means when he says sensations from the physical body warn people?


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Shiva
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24/03/2020 4:19 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Is this what Deepak Choppra means when he says sensations from the physical body warn people?

I am unable to link your question, or Chopra's statement, to the quote you selected that spoke of an inner dialog. So the answer must be: LA. (Think Arabic, not Lost Angeles).

 


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dom
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24/03/2020 5:01 pm  

@shiva

 

This sort of thing; 

https://chopra.com/articles/the-law-of-karma-or-cause-and-effect


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frater-r
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25/03/2020 12:35 am  

@ Shiva

 

I love the way you put together this pdf with all of the images. It articulates many of the points that came up in our chat about Sahaj Samadhi a while back.


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Shiva
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25/03/2020 8:06 pm  
Posted by: @frater-r

the points that came up in our chat about Sahaj Samadhi a while back.

It was that chat that immediately inspired me to drop other things and write The Short Path as an Appendix to my current, upcoming book. The 30-something page Appenix is ALL Commentary, except for one page that is the True Revelation of The Short Path in three (easy?) steps.

For those who have no bytes-room left on their hard head drive, I herewith post that single page ...

file:///home/shiva/Desktop/3%20steps.png

3 steps

 Click on the pic and it will grow bigger to allow visual perusal.


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frater-r
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26/03/2020 2:50 am  

@shiva

That's awesome! I own copies of _Coruscatio_ and _Inside Solar Lodge_. I look forward to reading this one.

 


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mal
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27/03/2020 4:43 am  
No mention of ἀγάπη, which some consider to be essential to right the compass that guides the aspirant. 
Posted by: @shiva

1. First step. Vision of ADNO (HGA). A "fist glimpse" of the "higher self." No dialog, conversation, or chit-chat.

2. Second step: K&C of HGA. Dialog. Good-bye Gururu; hello Inner Guidance. The exact type of communication varies with each person.

3. Step three. Direct perception. (gnosis)(intuition). No guru, no angel. Paradoxical to the human mind, which cannot figure it out.

Only one wedding. What about second wedding? Disregard Liber XC?

We hold the Earth fro Hell away. 🌹


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Shiva
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27/03/2020 4:55 am  
Posted by: @xon

No mention of ἀγάπη, which some consider to be essential

Some are entitled to their own opinion.

Posted by: @xon

Only one wedding. What about second wedding? Disregard Liber XC?

I didn't catch even one wedding. The single, one page list, posted above, is the core of the doc, which is just an Appendix in a much longer work. The Appendix in question, link provided in the OP, begins by citing the spectrum, then advising, "Dump it all!"

Yes, you may disregard XC, and any other Roman numerals.

 


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mal
 mal
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27/03/2020 5:16 am  
Posted by: @shiva

Some are entitled to their own opinion.

It did appear that Love isn't important to the core of your design. Thank you for confirming.
Posted by: @shiva

Yes, you may disregard XC, and any other Roman numerals.

Disregarding is exactly what Liber XC warns against.

38. I who am beyond Wisdom and Folly, arise and say unto you: achieve both weddings! Unite yourselves with both!

39. Beware, beware, I say, lest ye seek after the one and lose the other!

40. My adepts stand upright; their head above the heavens, their feet below the hells.

 

Posted by: @shiva

The single, one page list, posted above, is the core of the doc, which is just an Appendix in a much longer work

Indeed. It may be interesting to read more detail on how you intellectualize the work.

We hold the Earth fro Hell away. 🌹


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Shiva
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27/03/2020 6:01 am  
Posted by: @xon

It did appear that Love isn't important to the core of your design. Thank you for confirming.

Confirmation would require posting another Appendix called, "What's Love got to do with it?" It's too late for that tonight. If there be one among you who request it, so that Love and Will might be seen hanging in the balance, I will post it (tomorrow).

Posted by: @xon

Disregarding is exactly what Liber XC warns against.

38. I who am beyond Wisdom and Folly, arise and say unto you: achieve both weddings! Unite yourselves with both!

39. Beware, beware, I say, lest ye seek after the one and lose the other!

40. My adepts stand upright; their head above the heavens, their feet below the hells.

You may disregard XC. But only if you want to. If you want to hang on to someone else's scriptures, that's fine.

Posted by: @xon

It may be interesting to read more detail on how you intellectualize the work.

Anything (except quoted quotes) you find is the result of doing the work. This is a little thing I point out from time to time. Armchair magicians and bed-ridden mystics often come here and pontificate. As time goes on, it becomes known, or apparent, that they've done a little of this and that, but they didn't complete the whole curriculum. They did not do the work.


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mal
 mal
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27/03/2020 6:24 am  
Posted by: @shiva

"What's Love got to do with it?" It's too late for that tonight. If there be one among you who request it, so that Love and Will might be seen hanging in the balance, I will post it (tomorrow).

No hurry. That it wasn't important enough to even mention in the first doc is enough.

Posted by: @shiva

You may disregard XC. But only if you want to. If you want to hang on to someone else's scriptures, that's fine.

Finding guidance in the Holy Books isn't necessarily hanging on. Deciding if Class A are more reliable than the directions of others who attempt to steer people away from the Class A docs is part of exercising healthy energetic skepticism in regards to their own Thelemic path.

Posted by: @shiva

As time goes on, it becomes known, or apparent, that they've done a little of this and that, but they didn't complete the whole curriculum. They did not do the work.

Yes, there are indications.

Love is the law, love under will.

We hold the Earth fro Hell away. 🌹


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The HGA of a Duck
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27/03/2020 6:24 am  
Posted by: @shiva

Armchair magicians and bed-ridden mystics often come here and pontificate

I am one of these, I hope I don't pontificate too much. I'm a beginner to doing this "work", still learning to know how to start and partly why I came here. The other side of me thinks "why bother, the greatest "practice" is to do nothing at all". 🙂 


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mal
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27/03/2020 6:56 am  
Posted by: @duck

learning to know how to start

Good thread idea, if you're considering it. Asking how others started could be helpful and avoid overstepping the 'not a teaching site' guideline.

We hold the Earth fro Hell away. 🌹


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Shiva
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27/03/2020 4:24 pm  
Posted by: @xon

love under will.

Which came first, the chicken or the troll?


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christibrany
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27/03/2020 6:47 pm  

@Shiva

 

I wouldn't mind learning in your personal words, 'what's love got to do with it (got to do with it?'

 

😐 


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Jamie J Barter
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27/03/2020 10:19 pm  
Posted by: @duck

I am one of these, I hope I don't pontificate too much. I'm a beginner to doing this "work", still learning to know how to start and partly why I came here.

Commendable refreshingly unpretentious honesty.

Posted by: @duck

The other side of me thinks "why bother, the greatest "practice" is to do nothing at all"

When doing nothing (as in realizing wu-wei) at all is actually the "key of it all"

(😊)  

Norma N Joy Conquest

 

 

 

 


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ignant666
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27/03/2020 10:30 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

When doing nothing (as in realizing wu-wei) at all is actually the "key of it all"

Yes, but you got your nothing, and your nothing with twinkles, and then your better nothing.

To get any nothing worth having, you have to do something first.

And when he says he's doing nothing, he thinks so, sure, but that is not true. Most are always doing something, and doing nothing takes practice.

MY URGENT MESSAGE TO HUMANITY: You are being held hostage by a talking monkey inside your brain (assuming you have mastered the sulking lizard the monkey rides on the back of).

Oops, forgot that "not a teaching site" thing, and why listen to me anyway? Disregard all of the above, and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.


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Shiva
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27/03/2020 11:27 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

I wouldn't mind learning in your personal words, 'what's love got to do with it (

Fine. This one goes a little deeper into who we are and how our perceptions are generated. Here it is ...

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

When doing nothing (as in realizing wu-wei) at all is actually the "key of it all"

Right. It's a form of the 2=0 formula. The problem is, it's an advanced deal. My Thesis includes switching to a three-step program (as outlined in AL). This is more suitable for ordinary gifted guys and hip-hotty gals.

Posted by: @ignant666

To get any nothing worth having, you have to do something first.

Precisely. It is called The Path (and it involves doing work ... work that includes the physical dimension). The Path is different for everyone, because everyone is different. We find joy when we encounter synchronicity and someone else has a result or an experience that is similar to one's own. This helps us prove to ourselves that we are not completely insane, and it makes us happy).

But the end of The Path is the same for everyone: 61.

Posted by: @ignant666

MY URGENT MESSAGE TO HUMANITY: You are being held hostage by a talking monkey inside your brain (assuming you have mastered the sulking lizard the monkey rides on the back of).

Oooo Another brilliant aphorism from you, aptly phrased. That's two I've come across today. Your hermitage must be blooming.

Posted by: @ignant666

Oops, forgot that "not a teaching site" thing

Oh, nonsense!  Your utterance was an urgent warning to see the enemy, not a course in how to achieve nirvana.

 


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christibrany
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27/03/2020 11:54 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

And when he says he's doing nothing, he thinks so, sure, but that is not true. Most are always doing something, and doing nothing takes practice.

MY URGENT MESSAGE TO HUMANITY: You are being held hostage by a talking monkey inside your brain (assuming you have mastered the sulking lizard the monkey rides on the back of).

@ignant666

 

Bon soir mon ami

For once you are talking some sense.

I knew there was a reason I respected you. 

 

😉 

 

How is your garden doing? 

 

Here in CO it is snowing again.

After being warm and all the young eejits was hikin' on them trails. 

Wtf. Not even respecting distance.

I am not surprised.

I hate people sometimes. 

 

@Shiva

 

Posted by: @shiva

Fine. This one goes a little deeper into who we are and how our perceptions are generated. Here it is ...

 

I appreciate it as always, sir. 

 

93s

 

Happy wochenende zum alle meine Freunde und Bruder/Schwestern 


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dom
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28/03/2020 1:12 am  

@shiva

 

Now that we have reached the first stage of the next End of the World, brought to us courtesy of The Cosmic Changeover, many people are seeking a faster return on their quest for salvation, or liberation, or enlightenment.

 

I was wondering if the astrological community saw this virus coming last year as it were.


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The HGA of a Duck
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28/03/2020 2:29 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

And when he says he's doing nothing, he thinks so, sure, but that is not true. Most are always doing something, and doing nothing takes practice.

Apologies if it came across as at all pompous. I admit I'm usually "someone" who is doing "something", but I have gained a bit, just a little bit of understanding recently after being very much "dumb" most of my life. The "practice" of doing nothing was my hint of this.

I came "back" to Thelema after gaining this tiny bit of understanding from "Advaita" (and my "pet" lesser known tradition of Dzogchen). In this tradition the "nothing" is the "substrate consciousness" that is going on behind everything, and its always there behind everyday "crap" consciousness. Once one notices this "substrate", it becomes more noticeable during normal everyday activity. So this has been my "practice", just noticing this every now and again during the day when I'm doing ordinary "boring" stuff. Sort of a "practice" but also not.

So, its kind of relevant to this thread. Its what would be my "short path".


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Shiva
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28/03/2020 6:05 am  
Posted by: @duck

it becomes more noticeable during normal everyday activity.

According to Ken Wilber, it starts to become noticeable as a constant companion after "about" 20 years of practice. Leary suggested "a long time" doing yoga or meditation (without drugs). Nobody puts an exact time-frame on it, because they can't, because everyone has their own timeline.

I am a big fan of Dzogchen. It starts by cutting through the crap, and is then followed by years of crap while trying to figure out a technique for getting back to that state on a permanent (or at least an "on demand") basis (without the assistance of a tulku or rinpoche or dorje..

Posted by: @duck

Sort of a "practice" but also not.

It's not very formal, but it sounds like a practice to me.

 


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mal
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28/03/2020 6:10 am  
Posted by: @Shiva
Posted by: @christibrany

I wouldn't mind learning in your personal words, 'what's love got to do with it (

Fine. This one goes a little deeper into who we are and how our perceptions are generated. Here it is ...

The selective quotes from Little Essays being used out of context distort the meaning and intent of the passage which, if fully read, contradict your position.

There is no attempt to try to understand or expand upon the quoted "The love of God for man, and of man for God." in relation to goals described as important in "The Short Path", specifically those involving the HGA.  Instead the document wanders off into the appearance of making correspondences between Agape and other forms of love. As shown by your usual 'hanging onto' the writings of U.G. whose quote had nothing to do with Agape but with affectionate love. This doesn't appear to be done to show the difference but to make a parallel to support your thesis.

The Bailey quote was good as it pertained to the matter Agape, perhaps only included in full because on the surface it was support to your position of head/heart assertion. Yet, it supported Crowley's unquoted sections regarding Love from Little Essays.

This isn't to say there is no merit in the article. You're an initiate and appear to have advanced on the path to 4=7 equivalent, which is an accomplishment. It's interesting that you've repeatedly commented upon others falling off the path at that degree, it's as though your consciousness is trying to tell you something about yourself. Your understanding of the Lamp is also an indicator of your grade.  

This quote:

Of course, we want to keep in mind that the magical weapon of the sixth ray is the berserk, reminding us of how these people flip out in irrational rage when things don't go their way.

is particular pignant to behavioral failures.

Posted by: @shiva

Which came first, the chicken or the troll?

The accusation of troll usually precedes that of Choronzon in the defense mechanism of some.

 

Posted by: @duck

Dzogchen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhidharma#Nine_years_of_wall-gazing

We hold the Earth fro Hell away. 🌹


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The HGA of a Duck
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28/03/2020 7:02 am  
Posted by: @shiva

getting back to that state on a permanent (or at least an "on demand") basis

I can do a more in-depth post on this if it becomes relevant. My "approach" is a bit different. Its not really about reaching states, but noticing that the "meditative state" is actually the "substrate" behind anything that may be going on. Normal "crap" consciousness is just "division" from this underlying "state". So in a way its like a short-cut or a "cheat". I didn't know anything for years and never got anywhere with meditation until I started to notice this, and only now does meditation make sense.

I have an old pack of Golden Dawn tarot that came with a booklet which gives an LBRP which I did a few times years ago when I was "dumb". It was "fun" at the time but this may be a good beginner's practice now I know better. I'll dig it out and give it a go.

 


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frater-r
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28/03/2020 11:04 am  

@shiva

 

"But it is false that these "planes" or states are "out there," because
"out there" is nothing more than a three-dimensional, holographic,
projection screen ... and each individual is their own projector."  

Which model from academic philosophy most closely comports with this ^^ statement? Subjective Idealism? Empirical Idealism?

 


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ignant666
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28/03/2020 11:13 am  

Paging @thearthuremerson! Please report to the "Short Path" thread!


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elitemachinery
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28/03/2020 11:47 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

Yes, but you got your nothing, and your nothing with twinkles, and then your better nothing.

To get any nothing worth having, you have to do something first.

And when he says he's doing nothing, he thinks so, sure, but that is not true. Most are always doing something, and doing nothing takes practice.

MY URGENT MESSAGE TO HUMANITY: You are being held hostage by a talking monkey inside your brain (assuming you have mastered the sulking lizard the monkey rides on the back of).

Oops, forgot that "not a teaching site" thing, and why listen to me anyway? Disregard all of the above, and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Well said Ignant. This reminds me of the Landmark Forum where 300-500 people are told (after 3 long days of trying to figure out what the point of the course is) that:

"Life is empty and meaningless. And it's empty and meaningless that it's empty and meaningless."

To which more than a few people responded, "I don't get it?"

"There's nothing to get!"


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Tiger
(@tiger)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1427
28/03/2020 12:49 pm  

'"But it is false that these "planes" or states are "out there," because
"out there" is nothing more than a three-dimensional, holographic,
projection screen ... and each individual is their own projector."

Which model from academic philosophy most closely comports with this ^^ statement? Subjective Idealism? Empirical Idealism? "

my guess is that here and there
are a class of entities that comport as a class of entities that are conjured into
perspective; an observation or experience that can be verifiable by a class of entities that accord a correspondence to the workings of the conception and constituted determinations trappings.

The limit we cannot trespass, offers opportunities and resources.

So not sure if that is Subjective Idealism? Empirical Idealism?
Subjective Idealism Empirical Idealism are defined as the same thing by wiki ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_idealism

Subjectivity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjectivity
Empirical_evidence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence

Idealism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism
Philosophical realism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_realism


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4080
28/03/2020 7:21 pm  
Posted by: @xon

'hanging onto' the writings of U.G.

UG had no writings. He wrote nothing.

Posted by: @xon

4=7 equivalent, which is an accomplishment.

Why thank you. How much is the fee for my certificate, including the locked glass frame, handing with gloves and masks, and shipping?

*+

Posted by: @duck

the "meditative state" is actually the "substrate" behind anything that may be going on.

Yes. And that substrate is clouded over by several planes or levels of opacity that obscure or occult the primordial state. The ability to control, and thus "see through" any level of obscurity is termed a grade or a degree.

Posted by: @frater-r

Which model from academic philosophy most closely comports with this ^^ statement? Subjective Idealism? Empirical Idealism?

"Alice Through the Looking-Glass."

"Holographic Projection."

"Existelialism," assuming one takes full, personal responsibility.

Posted by: @tiger

So not sure if that is Subjective Idealism? Empirical Idealism?

How about "narcissistic nirvana?"

I don't know much about these idealisms, or not, and you are welcome to interpret me to r.'. and myself, and even the trogs, because I don't know what I meant in the first place ... after all.

What I do know is that the Dzog has to be connected to the Chen, and that's not done by mental effort or other clever ticks.

 

 


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Tiger
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1427
28/03/2020 8:51 pm  

The r is an all-inclusive mirroring spider web that reflects the presence of a secret r Riponche deity; which overshadows and secretes an awareness in the Bardo of svapnadarśana experience and forms as a perception even in the rumored Island of stability . but thats not verified.
anyway


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thearthuremerson
(@thearthuremerson)
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Posts: 10
28/03/2020 10:00 pm  
Posted by: @frater-r quoting @shiva

"But it is false that these "planes" or states are "out there," because
"out there" is nothing more than a three-dimensional, holographic,
projection screen ... and each individual is their own projector."  

Which model from academic philosophy most closely comports with this ^^ statement? Subjective Idealism? Empirical Idealism?

Shortly, because I can't stay long.

Idealist positions in philosophy are broadly characterized as being either "epistemological" or (exclusive) "ontological". In the first case, it is accepted that there is a reality independent of our perceptions, but that there is nothing that we can know about it other than that it exists. Kant's "transcendental" idealism is the paradigmatic expression of this view. Reality (the noumenon) is unknowable as it is in itself; its structured appearance is imposed on it by the features of our cognitivity. It follows on that view that all that we can come to know anything about is ourselves (not in the solipsistic sense). In the second case, ideas and the minds that have them are the only things that exist.

What is Shiva's view? I don't know. The position stated in the quote above seems compatible with either view. In the first case, the noumenon is the screen and our cognitivity structures what appears on the screen. In the other case, whatever appears to be objectively outside of us is merely a very powerful illusion caused by the mind and its ideas. I suspect Shiva would go in for the latter view given what he has said both here on these forums and in his writings elsewhere.

Now, as quickly as I came IN, I must go OUT.

æ

 


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Shiva
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Posts: 4080
29/03/2020 12:19 am  
Posted by: @tiger

The r is an all-inclusive mirroring spider web that reflects the presence of a secret r Riponche deity; which overshadows and secretes an awareness in the Bardo of svapnadarśana experience and forms as a perception even in the rumored Island of stability . but thats not verified.

Oh.

Posted by: @thearthuremerson

Reality (the noumenon) is unknowable as it is in itself

When I tried to make this point, recently, it fell short of acceptance by some. "Some" is a word being bandied around here lately.

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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Posts: 306
29/03/2020 12:37 am  
Posted by: @shiva

Yes. And that substrate is clouded over by several planes or levels of opacity that obscure or occult the primordial state. The ability to control, and thus "see through" any level of obscurity is termed a grade or a degree.

That's all good info. I haven't quite managed to put into words what I'm trying to say, if I can, that would be my "contribution" here. That may come later on if my communication skills improve.

I think I know what you're saying but I'd say the "seeing through" "comes from" the substrate and not the person "sitting" on top of it.

 

Posted by: @shiva

that's not done by mental effort or other clever ticks

That's sort of it I think, not sure if "ticks" is unintentional or one of your "private" jokes.


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