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Outer Gateways Ch 11: Aspects of Dream Control  

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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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23/02/2010 12:02 pm  

Would anyone like to air views and/ or comment upon Outer Gateways chapter 11 "Aspects of Dream control", I found this to be fascinating material which ties in first hand with several experiences of my own in the "remote past". I am in particular interested in the theory of absence of time. I was "poisoned" by a friend prior to attending the Mildenhall air show one year, using strong canabis mixed into a pot of yoghurt and had what I can only describe as a "hellish?" trip where I remained in the car for the entire duration of the said show in a timeless vortex. The things I saw were mind blowing and I really experienced "the end of time and the effects of non sequential pan temporal (reality?). This experience shook me up considerably at the time and remains with me even now as do various dream sequences experienced outside of normal temporal boundaries (non drug enduced!). I would be interested in hearing from others who have experience of anything similar.


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 Anonymous
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23/02/2010 4:07 pm  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law,

I have found that chapter to be very useful and insightful. Mr Grant touches on a lot of things that others leave out. In my experience, he does this because he understands the roots of the subject. For example, the "timeless" aspect of dreams that you mention is heavily clarified in Theosophy. While Mr Grant is only passingly familiar with Theosophy (I'm not 100% sure of this, but bear with me for a sec to explain), Mr Grant is familiar with the Indian and Hindu tradition from which Theosophy derives. Therefore, on an interesting timely side note, this also shows how in tune Mr Grant is with Uncle Al's work, as Al was intimately familiar with Theosophy.

About the only aspect of dreams that he doesn't address is more of an eastern bent. For example, which sub-plane of which plane are they associated with, etc. In other words, the more technical side of dreams he leaves out of the text, although imho he is probably intimately familiar with that.

The second thing I appreciate about that chapter is that it gives very useful techniques to use. Mr Grant's critics sometimes point out techniques, or lack thereof, but with regards to this chapter, the techniques contained there in are very effective. If you haven't tried using them, I highly recommend them.

love is the law, love under will.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
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Posts: 2618
23/02/2010 4:18 pm  

unfortunately i dont have time to write as much as i want although that may be a good thing considering my verbose tendencies however i just wanted to say that if you enjoy this aspect of his work as I do you almost certainly will enjoy the book 'the Art of Dreaming' by carlos castaneda.
I always enjoy finding similarities between spiritual modes of thought as this seems to validate them and their truthful/useful/ness to me so I find the use of tunnels to travel in this book ala the tunnels of set and alternate reality access via dreaming very fascinating. The Toltec system is what influenced and inspired me to start studying magic and it has an immense amount of similarities via practical teachings with so called western magic. more later πŸ™‚
Oh really quick the main idea of grants dream control ie finding a thought or subject from the waking state in your dream to cue you into your dreaming is exactly the same also as Castanedas Dreaming, where in order to build your astral or dreaming body sometimes to physical strength (the max) you realise you are dreaming via the entrance of an incongruous thing or remembered thing, then control from there. This simple act of consciousness in the dream state seems to build up our dream or astral body nicely making it more powerful and useful for things like magic for example.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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23/02/2010 9:38 pm  

Thank you both for your responses.


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 Anonymous
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24/02/2010 10:48 am  
"RemeaviThantos" wrote:
This experience shook me up considerably at the time and remains with me even now as do various dream sequences experienced outside of normal temporal boundaries (non drug enduced!). I would be interested in hearing from others who have experience of anything similar.

Drugs as a catalyst aside, your experience reminds me of the distinction between Kairos and Chronos: respectively, our sacred and profane experiences of time. Spare was aware of this it seems, and I would imagine Grant also.

bazelek


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 Anonymous
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09/08/2010 4:23 pm  

Outer Gateways is in my opinion as well as the other eight books (I've only obtained Outer Gateways & Nightside of Eden) are grimiores of sorts that transform the reality of the person in possesion of them akin to the power of Austin Osman Spare's artwork,and by utilizing the knowledge contained in them it is possible to create a link (Gateway) to the trans-mundane. I had an experience after reading Outer Gateways for the first time where I was able to go from dreaming to lucid dreaming,and then in that lucid dreaming state went into my room where my body lay sleeping- reached into it- pulled myself out of my body into an astral projection. I attribute this experience directly to the knowledge contained within Outer Gateways.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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09/08/2010 4:36 pm  

I also wanted to add, what your post has jogged into memory, that I had my second astral projection , which was also the first entirely 'perfect' one (from my point of view), in that it included all sight, sound, tactile etc, during the time of reading Outer Gateways and then Beyond the Mauve Zone, this summer. The only thing that clued it into being OOB and not physical was the tugging or side to side shifting sensation and then the change in tactile from my body lying down to standing some feet away looking at my body.
I had enough time to cast a magical circle (for some reason this seemed important even in the astral) and to sense an entity in the corner of the room, but as soon as I tried to focus on said entity after about 5 minutes of mucking about feeling the sensations, I was back in my body πŸ™ And since then, about 2 or 3 months ago I haven't been able to get out again. But yes I have no qualms in thinking those books might have helped!
The first step to dream control is obviously remembering your dreams. And I have been having some very interesting ones lately. Then the next step is picking out items in your dreams , and being conscious enough to do so, that tell you you are dreaming.
The third step is then the conscious choice to do whatever, based on the knowledge built of the first 2 steps.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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09/08/2010 5:07 pm  

It can be very hard to 'get out',and to confirm an experiment by repeating it to get the same/similiar results that was completed on the astral in my experiences.

There are many initiates in what I can only describe as an 'egg', and all their workings are within that space that can extent infinitely. I believe that it is a form a incubation so that when they 'attain' control their universe is shattered/destroyed in a form of merging,and at this point the 'egg' of their concieved astral reality is 'hatched'.

The astral they knew becomes only a afterthought/lesser state since they now percieve their body of light with all their senses,and have full control.


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 Anonymous
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10/08/2010 1:03 am  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I suggest reading the Chapters of Liber Aleph on Dreams and the ones thereafter! Hope this helps.

Love is the law, love under will
"He who Knows Nothing"


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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10/08/2010 3:22 pm  

Thank you for that suggestion Aeternus220- There is also great info on it in Magick Theory & Practice.


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 Anonymous
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11/08/2010 12:47 pm  

aleatoric,
Yes hatched, I like that.
Not really sure that the experience would be one I'd like to repeat, not sure I would really need to. It seemed a little like having your first flying lesson in a Tornado at the time. Sort of lucky to be still alive, if you know what I mean.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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11/08/2010 2:41 pm  

describing it like that now you do have to tell remeavithanatos! what happened when you lost your astral innocence in this incarnation? πŸ˜€


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 Anonymous
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11/08/2010 4:53 pm  

That was the same exact experience for me- almost impossible to control,and the pressure was so strong that I could barely stand it. After a few times it became easier to push onward where I willed, but the pressure I feel is still quite uncomfortable. I would like to add that an O.B.E is far more enjoyable,and transforming than astral work although the whole feeling of being suffocated and intense vibrations right before getting out of the body is terrifying, but worth every bit of fear.


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 Anonymous
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11/08/2010 8:14 pm  

christibrany,
Oobe first experienced consciously as a young child of six or seven, obviously disorientating and scarey at the time, I remember the first time like it was yesterday. I progressed to regular experiences, which I learned to control and enjoy and which could be performed at will . This period stalled (amazingly the familiar, however eldrich eventually becomes the mundane) in early teenage years, as I did the usual attempting to blend in with everyone else I knew (camelion effect I suppose), active works to extinguish this gift followed before I came to accept what was, as one must. I now quietly enjoy being a "psychonaut".
Regards,
RThantos (not Thanatos my friend)


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 Anonymous
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11/08/2010 8:21 pm  

aleatoric,
Indeed sir.
How is your control progressing? Are you tuning the fork πŸ˜‰ ?
Regards,
RTh


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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11/08/2010 8:42 pm  

Control is fine now- getting there between waking & sleeping is another hazard all together- It was much easier when I was eleven to clear my mind an focus on the breathing. Dream control has been very enjoyable for me- especially lucid dreams where I can go an do anything.


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 Anonymous
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18/04/2011 2:42 am  

What are the chances of getting "lost" in your lucid state or even insanity insueing? I am currently reading up on lucid dreaming techniques, and there are even chapters about getting over the terrifying experience. What could be the "after" experience of lucid dreaming? Could it be possible to eventually loose track of what is "census-reality" and what is lucid dreaming?


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 Anonymous
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04/06/2011 12:54 pm  

Hommage to the crossroads Baron eh πŸ™‚

Here's my tip, just walk right up to him, be polite and respectfull and never show fear. Then your on your way through. If you pay him too much attention you'll end up gibbering like a baby. Adopt a discipline of thought and action somewhere between Hagakure and Heinlein's Starship Troopers (loving this currently Lol).
Hope this helps.


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Anonymous
 Anonymous
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04/06/2011 4:17 pm  

In my viewpoint, I see as an important aspect to the so-called controlled dreaming you distill your mind everyday, certainly your awareness & insight will be obtained at the highest level. Only then can go beyond just being conscious in dreams. Only then will the necessary leap to other perceptions and gain deeper understanding. Being aware is to be aware of here and there and vice versa.

Best wishes.


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