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The Sinister Order of the Gylden Dammerung


pox93
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I've been interested in Thelemic orders and in the OTO in general. It seems as though, a decade ago there were many Thelemic orders around the net, but not it feels like everyone is gone?

I was searching for a Thelemic order to join, and recently found a magickal society called the Sinister Order of the Gylden Dammerung: https://archive.org/details/nexion-zine-7.1/page/n1411/mode/2up

It has self-initiation rituals and uses OTO degrees. 

Is this associated with any OTO group out there? 


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ignant666
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"In the name of Satan, Baphomet, and Hitler, I seal the Oaths I have taken here permanently, which knights me a Mystic Templar.

This is a "nexion" of the "Order Of Nine Angles". They are Nazis, and Satanists, but not Thelemites.


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wellreadwellbred
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pox93: "I was searching for a Thelemic order to join [...] It has self-initiation rituals and uses OTO degrees. "

"Basileus O.T.O. is the first in the world to adapt the full initiation system of the Ordo Templi Orientis for remote initiatory work." (Source: "Main About us Initiation Platform Texts Art A .·. A .·. Search Vk Fb En Ru Basileus O.T.O. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"  - - - https://b-oto.org/en/  )

This Order describes itself as "... acknowledged as the subject of genuine O.T.O. tradition by the A. Krumm-Heller’s lineage." (Source: "Main About us ..." - - - https://b-oto.org/en/about-us/ )

Said Order's site does also provide "A .·. A .·. THE METHOD OF SCIENCE. THE AIM OF RELIGION", which can be contacted via "A ∴ A ∴ TO MEGA THERION — A.M.A.G. — URANUS — ALION LINEAGE The Praemonstrator of A ∴ A ∴ (World) Fr. Libero Grand Neophyte A ∴ A ∴ (Russia, Eastern & Northern Europe) Fr. Aumgn" (Source: A .·. A .·. THE METHOD OF SCIENCE. THE AIM OF RELIGION Главная | Main Градусы | Grades Документы | Documents Skakavac | Serbian Контакт | Contact B.O.T.O. - - - http://aa.b-oto.org/contact/ )

This site does not appear to be affiliated with Unites States Grand Lodge Ordo Templi Orientis, and the latter does with respect to its 'History' state that:

"... Dr. Arnold Krumm-Heller (Huiracocha, 1879-1949) was chartered as Reuss’s official representative for Latin America. Krumm-Heller developed his own order called Fraternitas Rosicruciana Antiqua (F.R.A.). According to his son, Parsival, he never founded any O.T.O. Lodges, initiated any members into O.T.O., or appointed any O.T.O. officers."

(Source: "Unites States Grand Lodge Ordo Templi Orientis [...] History by Sabazius X° and AMT IX°" - - - https://oto-usa.org/oto/history/  )

For your information pox93, the Unites States Grand Lodge Ordo Templi Orientis does not accept the A∴A∴ (lineage?) administered by Basileus O.T.O.:

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

[...] the Thelemic movement has been beset by the issue of factionalism within its community, as indicated by spurious A∴A∴ “lineages” promoted by those usually with an economic or political stake in the matter, some in positions of official or cultural authority in the O.T.O., the movement’s predominant social fraternal order.

That issue has come to an end.

Over the last year, the Duplexity lecture series has been brought to Thelemic communities throughout the United States, from California, to Texas, and even the neon infused Valley of Las Vegas, Nevada. It was my privilege to have had a role in the latter, on behalf of O.T.O. and A∴A∴ for my former home Valley.  Out of nowhere, as the Duplexity series did its steady work throughout America, a lecture was delivered by Hymenaeus Beta, XII○, in Vancouver, British Columbia, at a conference marking the first century of Thelemic presence in North America, wherein he indicated not only the close and ongoing relationship between the two orders, but that, in fact, he had been received as a Probationer by James Daniel Gunther in 1975 e.v. in New York. This landed like a thunderclap — the subsequent Duplexity talks in Austin, Texas sponsored by the Heart of Blood organization and the U.S. Grand Lodge, O.T.O., further hit the point home, reiterating that there is one A∴A∴ with a particular and unique relationship with the Oriental Templar Order. Beta’s lecture in Vancouver demonstrated the “fruits” of the Duplexity formula by indicating that every prominent published work over the last three decades undertaken by the O.T.O., from The Holy Books of Thelema to Liber ABA to 777 had all been the product of the two orders working in close cooperation. There will still be noise out there about this issue, and some may attempt to found their own hollow kingdoms based on the lineage fraud, but, at the end of the day, the official shoes have dropped, and the right relation between the two orders has been resolved and established.

Love is the law, love under will."

(Source: Peter Pendragon Occulture & Weird News [...] Duplexity Triumphant: The Beginning of the End of Factionalism in Thelema Posted on July 21, 2015 by fletchermunsen - - - https://peterpendragon93.wordpress.com/2015/07/21/duplexity-triumphant-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-factionalism-in-thelema/ )

pox93: "It seems as though, a decade ago there were many Thelemic orders around the net, but not it feels like everyone is gone?"

Maybe that is due to the Duplexity Triumphant: The Beginning of the End of Factionalism in Thelema?

"Success is your proof [...]", (BOTL: III:46.)", has officially been used as a slogan by the Unites States Grand Lodge Ordo Templi Orientis:    

Success Is Your Proof: One Hundred Years of O.T.O. in North America; A Festschrift in Honor of Hymenaeus Beta, Celebrating 30 Years of Leadership. New York, NY: Sekmet Books, 2015. First edition.


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pox93
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@ignant666

Nazis? Thanks. I'll stay away. It looked like the Sinister Order of the Gylden Dammerung had an interesting magickal cirriculum though. 

 

@wellreadwellbred

B-OTO! I've never heard of them. I'll have a look into them. Thank you!


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Shiva
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Posted by: @pox93

I was searching for a Thelemic order to join

Oh, so you are a part-time solo operator looking to join a circus. Well, good luck on that.

Posted by: @pox93

Is this associated with any OTO group out there? 

There is only one OTO(TM) group out there. It is copyrighted and trademarked, and it crushes any pretenders in the courtroom. I, myself, was crushed by the OTO(TM), in retrospect. That is, my affiliation with OTO was labeled "clandestine" by the OTO chief ... over twenty years after the fact. I believe he was 11 years old, or something like that, when I and my associates were holding the line against the darkness.

Note: OTO is a fraternal order, not a teaching order. Get it? It's like a church, not a school.

Posted by: @pox93

I'll have a look into them

Warning. Danger. They are all fraternal orders and require an oath of obedience. Only the A.'.A.'. system, and The Arcan School, are free of obedience and patying dues in advance. There, of course, may be other lineages that operate in a free zone. 

Say, anybody's who's ... "Been on the Path for a while" and is looking for an Order to join, is demonstrating, um, ambivalence, or maybe juxtaposition in the order of things. That is, it seems paradoxical.Either you're a sheep or a goat.

"Choose you well. Upon you decision, your entire life depends."
- paraphrased from The Book of Life (and Death).

PS - Didn't I warn you about trusting robot quote quoters. No? Well, be warned.

 


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christibrany
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@pox93

 

For a stable thelemic group to join I recommend this http://thelema.org/index.html but it is A.:.A.:. and general Thelema oriented, not OTO.   You may be able to do correspondence courses. 

 

 


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christibrany
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Also is reccomended: https://www.totss.org/

 

 


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pox93
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@christibrany

Thank you. I'll have a look at them!

 

@Shiva

I've heard of the Caliphate OTO and their courtroom battles: in this regard, they seem to have something in common with Scientology 🙂

I'm personally not interested in which OTO body is the genuine and legit one. As far as I am concerned, in regards to this topic: 1) OTO was like a big oak tree, which died with Reuss, 2) before that oak tree died, it spawned many OTO groups/bodies, & 3) all such various OTO groups/bodies are legitimate memetic spawn of the original; in the same way that grandchildren are related genetically to the same grandparents. 

What I am interested in is the spiritual content of such groups, or any group, not its physical or legal pedigree.

OTO originally began as the Academia Masonica, created into being by its first charter founders as a School to teach the "secrets" of Freemasonry. Yes, it's a fraternal organization, like Freemasonry is. But Freemasonry isn't just a knife & fork frat. It also teaches stuff, Freemasonry being, "a system or morality, veiled in allegory..." etc. [C]OTO may be a fraternal institution, but I doubt all they are about is having meetings to pay the lodge bills and eat dinner and drink together. It seems to have a tutorial purpose: that it teaches or prolongates Themela and so on seems to be indicative.    


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Tiger
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@pox93
" I was searching for a Thelemic order to join, and recently found a magickal society called the Sinister Order of the Gylden Dammerung "

Sinister is defined as, singularly evil or productive of evil, accompanied by or leading to disaster; presaging ill fortune or trouble; of ill omen, unfavorable, unlucky, inauspicious; fraudulent. Commonly used in the sense “evil” (“a sinister cult leader”; “a sinister plot”),suggesting an ominous foreshadowing of an unfavorable turn of events (“a sinister omen”).

So one should look at why an order would put such a word in their name and why one would join such a order.
The van you are asked to drive and to call them when you arrive at the specific location; may trigger the explosives inside.
That could be their analogy of initiating the quick path of the journey.
And of course a true Sinister order would appear as having no connections with nefarious undertakings.

anyway;
welcome


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pox93
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Posted by: @tiger

@pox93
" I was searching for a Thelemic order to join, and recently found a magickal society called the Sinister Order of the Gylden Dammerung "

Sinister is defined as, singularly evil or productive of evil, accompanied by or leading to disaster; presaging ill fortune or trouble; of ill omen, unfavorable, unlucky, inauspicious; fraudulent. Commonly used in the sense “evil” (“a sinister cult leader”; “a sinister plot”),suggesting an ominous foreshadowing of an unfavorable turn of events (“a sinister omen”).

So one should look at why an order would put such a word in their name and why one would join such a order.
The van you are asked to drive and to call them when you arrive at the specific location; may trigger the explosives inside.
That could be their analogy of initiating the quick path of the journey.
And of course a true Sinister order would appear as having no connections with nefarious undertakings.

anyway;
welcome

Thanks Tiger for the welcome.

This Order also uses the word "Sinister" in the Latin, to denote the opposite side of Dexter, because sinister means Left, as in the Left Hand Path. One way they refer to the Left Hand Path is the "Sinister Way." Sinister, in that denotation is a useful adjective to be pertaining to the Left (hand path), as opposed to saying, "our order is a left-hand-pathish order." 

But, you are also correct, they do seem to use the word Sinister in its evil denotation. The Order in question is all over the news as of late, having been declared an extremist group by the NCC, FBI, and CIA in a recent report by the NCC. They have also recently been infiltrated by the UK's Secret Service. I've done some google research on them and their members have been involved in everything from murder to terrorist plots, to raping children and child prostitution: their Wikipedia even talks about what they do.

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @pox93

OTO originally began as the Academia Masonica, created into being by its first charter founders as a School to teach the "secrets" of Freemasonry

The "secrets" were sexual and the "profess houses" were to be whorehouses where gentleman members who attended the profess houses to do the work. There was never any instruction. It was a fraternal order, not a teaching order. Mainly, one was expected to pay their dues in advance, to obey the OHO (Reuss, then Crowley), and to attend the profess house for limited times each year - until one reached the IX* ant to dwell in carnal bliss all year long.

It never got off the ground for the Reuss-Crowley guys. Agape Lodge in California (under Crowley-Baphomet) got it off the ground all right, right into a "sex-cult" raid by the Pasadena Police.

I thank the stars and the symbols that Solar Lodge never knew about this aspect of the work. We got into trouble in other ways, but it never about sex.

Having lived through the initiations (some didn't) all the way up to the IX*, I can testify that the whole Tree you mentioned was rotten - some form of deluded sexual spiritual con game. There are those who claim this still holds true today, but I can't tell fore sure because I can't get in - I have been blacklisted. I was hoping we could send you in to get a first hand report, but your sanity would probably be better served with the Typhonians.

Posted by: @pox93

It seems to have a tutorial purpose: that it teaches or prolongates Themela and so on seems to be indicative.

But you are citing the facts about these orgs, as if they are factual, without having been admitted to their mysteries. I must admit you use the words, "It seems ...," so we see this is your outsider opinion, which is close to the facts, but you cut them some slack because they espouse Thelema. Most orgs espouse high and lofty goals, but underneath you might have been better of to joing a heathen Chinese Tong ("benevolent society") where they chase other Chinamen through dark alleys with hatchets.

We are talking about introduction to a living nightmare. Well, at least "I" am doing that kind of talking, and now I've said my piece/peace for this morning.

Posted by: @tiger

Sinister is defined as, singularly evil or productive of evil, accompanied by or leading to disaster; presaging ill fortune or trouble

Sinister derives from "left" (sinster) in the olden terminology. Yeah, this is the left-hand path in full action. The Black Lodge. Of course, it's just people who are pretending how bad they are. The true test is to to determine the amount of fees involved, and if dues are involved, and how much. Then, one must determine how much (a percentage would suffice) of the money goes upstairs to the head, and how much is returned in benefits to the members.

PS - The true order don't charge nothin'. Any time money is involved, we must look closely into where it goes and how it is used.

Posted by: @tiger

So one should look at why an order would put such a word in their name and why one would join such a order.

Exactly.

Posted by: @pox93

This Order also uses the word "Sinister" in the Latin, to denote the opposite side of Dexter

This is true, but the olden word is "sinster," which opposes "dexter." It is used in medical terminology all the time.

Posted by: @pox93

The Order in question is all over the news as of late

Oh, good. We always want "proof" of such statements. Since I never even heard of them before, and they are not anywhere in the news here in New Mexico, The Land of Enchantment, would it be possible for you to post just one link to any example of them being all over the news?

Your Wikipedia link leads to O9A - but I thought you were writing about The Sinister Order of the G.D..  So now I am confused. I guess I will simply report them all to "the authorities" and let it get sorted out in the courts.

 

 

 


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pox93
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@shiva

Ignant666 identified them as being a part of the O9A. 

The recent news on this Order: Google. The news about the: infiltration. The reference section of the wikipedia also provides links to recent news. 

They seem to be divided into networks or subgroups. Each subgroup has its own name. Maybe like how Wicca has covens or Freemasonry has lodges. 


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pox93
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @pox93

OTO originally began as the Academia Masonica, created into being by its first charter founders as a School to teach the "secrets" of Freemasonry

Having lived through the initiations (some didn't) all the way up to the IX*, I can testify that the whole Tree you mentioned was rotten - some form of deluded sexual spiritual con game. There are those who claim this still holds true today, but I can't tell fore sure because I can't get in - I have been blacklisted. I was hoping we could send you in to get a first hand report, but your sanity would probably be better served with the Typhonians.

You went all the way up to the 9th degree? And they said you were clandestine? Being form the inside of the OTO, if you say its rotten and doesn't teach anything like a school, then I believe your word, born from experience. 

I wouldn't mind getting initiated into that OTO, to collect intelligence, but I assume that it will take years. I had a friend who owned a bookstore who was into the OTO and he told me that it takes years and years to reach the higher degrees. 


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Alan_OBrien
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Posted by: @pox93

I've been interested in Thelemic orders and in the OTO in general. It seems as though, a decade ago there were many Thelemic orders around the net, but not it feels like everyone is gone?

I was searching for a Thelemic order to join, and recently found a magickal society called the Sinister Order of the Gylden Dammerung: https://archive.org/details/nexion-zine-7.1/page/n1411/mode/2up

It has self-initiation rituals and uses OTO degrees. 

Is this associated with any OTO group out there? 

It is a strange coincidence that there is a now outlawed far right party in Greece called The Golden Dawn. I imagine these groups take their names from the Wagnerian Umwelt rather than the Thelemic.


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pox93
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@alan_obrien

Oh... I had always wondered why that Greek political party named itself after the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn! The last time I heard of The Golden Dawn in the news, was some of their members got into parliament? I didn't know they were outlawed. Europe has been banning a lot of far right groups lately. I think they might do the same here in America, after the Capitol Riot (insurrection). 


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dom
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Posted by: @pox93

@alan_obrien

Oh... I had always wondered why that Greek political party named itself after the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn! The last time I heard of The Golden Dawn 

Has anyone ever seen a Golden Dawn?  An incredible sight. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @pox93

I wouldn't mind getting initiated into that OTO, to collect intelligence

You might mind after you take the "unbreakable" Oath of Obedience. We are discussing top-notch dictatorship here. It's all detailed, in detail, in Hot Zones, of which free delivery and no cost ends tomorrow.

Just to put this into perspective, as it seems you are unaware of my exhaled or expired status, now retired, I was the Grand Secretary general of Solar Lodge, which owned a gas station, actually two,  which is the sign of true accomplishment on the physical plane, and I was the administrator of said Lodge(s). I was not the ultimate authority; I just ran the show. Now we had an order from a IX* to get the show going, but he only gave talismans and secret papers, not a written Charter. So the incumbent society said we had no note and were bad people, never to be confused with the one true lineage as linked by G. McMurtry, the Magus himself.

So you don't need to get in to get the "secrets." Everybody here knows the "secrets." All we need is an update as to conditions inside. Watch for slow progress, favoritism, eternal paying of dues in advance, and illegal drug use. You can probably get all this in the Minerval degree, thus avoiding the Oath of Obedience at the I*. Should you be captured and tortured, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your corpse.

Nah. Forget it. It would be a traumatic adventure. Just go to Typhon and save your sanity.

Posted by: @pox93

it takes years and years to reach the higher degrees. 

It also takes a green light from above. Favoritism, and exclusion if you're caught being involved in (essentially) anything else, is the name of the game. Intelligent Yes Men may make it to the higher levels. I know, "Intelligent Yes Men" is an oxymoron. So am I.

 

 


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Pertinax
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Posted by: @pox93

I wouldn't mind getting initiated into that OTO, to collect intelligence, but I assume that it will take years. I had a friend who owned a bookstore who was into the OTO and he told me that it takes years and years to reach the higher degrees. 

Having been a member for 4 years a while back, I'd say don't bother. It's a clique, if you get accepted then you'll be expected to drink all sorts of Kool-aid or keep quiet, and most likely will never rise above IV* and PI so probably won't be in the inner circle clique. As for the 'secrets', they are readily available to anybody with an internet connection.

Some people swear by it. Personally, while I did make friends and enjoyed it a lot of the time, I found it good for drinking parties and occult oriented gossip but not so good for actual magickal/spiritual work. Some of us once got told off by higher ups for writing and performing rituals that were 'above our grade', and the amount of weird sexual shenanigans, including some that should really have been reported to the police, could fill volumes. 


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hermitas
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Yeah, I can’t live with all that. 

Seems a shame.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @pertinax

Some of us once got told off by higher ups for writing and performing rituals that were 'above our grade'

Well, somebody had to put you in your proper place. Otherwise, you might have learned the truth ... and then told other people. Surely, anyone can see that you had gone too far, too fast ... without paying the heavier fees and dues of the upper grades. They are payable in advance, you know.

image

Pic courtesy of Hot Zones.
Appendix I - The Constitution of 1917

Posted by: @hermitas

I can’t live with all that.

Suicide is forbidden!  Don't kill yourself, it wasn't you we were planning to send ... Inside the Dragon.

Now I have painted a bleak picture, and Pertinax has added his 4 years Inside the Dragon, but I hasten to remind you (or anyone) that Solar Lodge required the work of the A.'.A.'. in order to advance to any next OTO grade. So it was a teaching order, and that made a big difference. People actually earned their degrees. They were also invited to pump gas and wash windshields, but that physical plane work was voluntary. They could live in the big profess houses, where relationships were not controlled but headed straight into Monogamous pairs. No sexual adventures. The adventures were of a different kind. I never saw favoritism in grade advancement, probably because I administered all the exams.

But don't kid yourself. The Grand Master made a big mistake. Even before she made further mistakes. She opposed me and demanded that a candidate be advanced (to I*) without passing the exam, which she (the Can.'.) had failed twice. I wash my hands and face of anything that happened to Solar Lodge after that.

But I just wanted you (anyone gathered here in this corner) to know that the key to making such a venture lies in requiring the work. If you require work (the A.'.A.'. curriculum, not the gas pumping), the candidates may fall like flies, but the core remains quite pure. A second requirement is that the core/core person must not cheat the system for personal ends. In this case, a brevet I* was granted to a person who was willing to do physical labor. This same person ran off with Frater Mortis, who stole all the ritual papers and ran off to found his own Order, with here ... where all candidates were required, required you hear?, to show up for regular physical labor projects before being considered for advancement.

Later on, they got divorced.

Anicca, anicca - everything passes away.

Posted by: @hermitas

Seems a shame.

It is the way of The Black Lodge.

 


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @shiva

Having lived through the initiations (some didn't) all the way up to the IX*,

Can you clarify, what does "lived through" mean - that you actually took them?  For the VII* and VIII* particularly - since AC never wrote any rituals for those - what would they have involved? (Please try not to be coy!)

Posted by: @shiva

I can't get in [to the (c)OTO]- I have been blacklisted.

Was this by means of an email you were sent, or circulated to others in positions of 'authority'?  (Did it apply to this rather weasly half-way-housed "associate" membership also?)  And what on (man of) earth ever happened to this "inalienable right" all mean and women were supposed to have to the first 3 degrees?

Posted by: @shiva

Frater Mortis, who stole all the ritual papers and ran off to found his own Order

Whatever happened to that/him in the end... did Karma finally give his backside a proper spanking, as it were, for his presumptious impertinence - or did his Order somehow against the odds prosper?

Full of curioisitily yours with thanks in advance for satisfying it,

Norma N Joy Conquest


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Shiva
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

the VII* and VIII* particularly - since AC never wrote any rituals for those

I will not be coy. AC did indeed write rituals for the higher degrees. The VII* remains a ceremonial mystery - there is just a paper to be passed - after one pays their dues in advance. In the VIII* the Epopt can.'. is "accidentally" allowed to witness the VIII* ceremony, which was recorded in detail in Energized Enthusiasm. As a Pontiff can.'., he plays the part of the priest. The IX* is the same ceremony, but merely with the addition of the elixir. I am not making this up, I am quoting Crowley letters.

I did not attend or perform in such ceremonies. Nobody did, anywhere that I know of.

We used the Crowley method of handing over the papers, after the fees and dues were paid in advance. Oh, yes, we omitted the fees and dues part. Those were collected only at the 0* to III* levels. Just imagine, free degrees ... but only after one proved they knew what they were doing. There was a rite that came with the IX* that is not written anywhere.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Was this by means of an email you were sent, or circulated to others in positions of 'authority'?

The OHO himself, while discussing other matters, like how legal action was aimed my way, told me about a letter I had sent to him in 1986. I reminded him of it, and he went and looked it up. He chided me for sending it to a "camp" and not to his-self. Well, brimstone and all that! In 1986, he was an unknown anonymous OHO called Beta, so I naturally sent it locally. I assumed (correctly) that it would be hand-carried to the top of the pyramid (where the capstone was invisible). The letter was never answered, but it made it into the archives.

I have no idea what I wrote, but I did not apply for membership at that time (or ever after). It was implied by him, in our round-robin-table of dialog (in 2007, I think) that no member of Solar Lodge would ever see the inside of Saladin's tent. They did, however, accept the son of a Solar member, up in Seattle, and that led to a whole other drama of the Solar Sun's remnants interfacing with the New Tong.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

(Did it apply to this rather weasly half-way-housed "associate" membership also?)

(That's just a way to get free donations and tribute. I think anyone, even Edwin Arthwaite, could have ridden that trolley. I wouldn't know because I never tried to donate, not even under an assumed name. But I'd bet they would have taken my donation.)

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

And what on (man of) earth ever happened to this "inalienable right" all mean and women were supposed to have to the first 3 degrees?

You know what happened. It was the first three degrees that were intended for everyone - as long as they paid in advance. It was the IV* that was "by invitation only." It started with BafometR taking the fees and dues in advance, then handing over the papers for 0*-III*. No ceremony, except a lunch.

In Agape, they actually did the rites, with the 0* & I* given together in the same night (or day) span. I have no idea how or when the II* and III* were earned or dispensed.

In Solar, we drew no such lines. Anybody could have anything, in order, as long as they could do the practices, submit the record, and pass the exam. Plus there was the pyramid scheme. The Order requires the induction of two (1) members under them in order to advance to the next grade. I eliminated that crap and any candidate only needed one (1) student under him/her, in A.'.A.'. fashion, to advance. Some people turned in so many Minervals that we had plenty of students to assign to the less-evangelistic, retarded socio-compromised members. The funny thing is, with all this congestion, nobody needed to be re-assigned to a new link ("superior" in the Order's jargon) because their mentor went insane.

Among the most common emails I get in my inbox, one of the highest numbered and more common subjects involves involves real-time, present-day, disillusioned members of said Tong. One was a member of Frater Mortis' off-shoot from Solar Lodge, The Order of Thelema (he held the V*) - who was also a I* in the one true Tong. "They tried to get me to resign my other affiliation," he wrote. "But I refused, and they have not thrown me out. But I know I'll never see the II*."

Apparently, the II* and III* are now closely-guarded citadels. Nobody has an inalienable right to any rite. But, heck, you know they re-wrote the Constitution. So any factors, rites, or rights that BafometR wrote about have mostly been subjected to change. It's a form of Magic!

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Whatever happened to that/him in the end... did Karma finally give his backside a proper spanking, as it were, for his presumptious impertinence - or did his Order somehow against the odds prosper?

He grabbed the papers, jumped in his Karmann Ghia, and sped off to San Diego, where he rammed the back of a truck and lost his front teeth (all within the space of about 2 hours). I always looked on that as semi-instant karma, but you may apply your own interpretation. He opened The Magick Bookstore that prospered for years. Since he had only received the III*, he ran a goodly portion of the San Diego metaphysical community through Saladin's camp. Then people said, "Okay, what's next?" 

There was no next. So they departed. But they all had toiled in his gardens and raked up his leaves during their tenure. More than 20 years after the fun with the FBI, I spoke to him on the phone. "I have my own Order now, you know." I said, "I know." He was still processing candidates and no leaves accumulated in his yard. His gardens remained free of weeds.

Then some folks stole his papers and set up the Church of Thelema. My wife went to join them, the Church of purloined docs, as a venture into curiosity. She got the Minerval and was told to report on Saturday mornings (all of them). She was handed a rake and instructed to rake leaves. After a few weeks she asked, "When are we going to do some real work?"

"Like what?" she was asked.

"Like rituals," she replied.

"Oh," they said. "You're not ready for that yet." (At that time she was finishing up her work for the 5=6). She quit.

Mortis then sold The Magick Bookstore, and I even gave lectures there (under new ownership).

Mortis and his bride who could not pass the I* examination (the only person who ever flunked) got divorced somewhere along the line. He re-married, and then he died, with his wife carrying on the burden of casting pearls before the swine, with rakes. It was in reference to a certain "deadness" in the new Tong mistress that concerned the fellow who wrote to me and disclosed many of these details.

So you see, like Capt Frater Taurus, LAPD, and myself, you may conclude that "Crime does pay" after all. Sort of.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Full of curioisitily yours with thanks in advance for satisfying it,

You have caught me in a post-publication mode of continual bliss, so instead of being told to Fuck Off, I'm busy Writing, I am happy to oblige with all manner of endless details.

PS - If you hurry, there appear to be two (2) operations now operating in San Diego: The original Mortis Lodge and the clandestine Church Tong. They both use the same stolen Saladin rites we know so well, by memory, and they both employ their twisted version of Karma Yoga. You need not bring your rake, which is provided as a by-product of your fees that will be payable in advance.

I cannot possibly proofread this lengthy exposition of the true mysteries. Let me know if I garbled any grammar to the status of incomprehensibility.

 

 


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wellreadwellbred
(@wellreadwellbred)
Member
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 1111
 

Basileus O.T.O., "... the first in the world to adapt the full initiation system of the Ordo Templi Orientis for remote initiatory work.", described by me in this thread, for pox93, "... searching for a Thelemic order to join ...", as stated in the original post of this thread, appears to be "casting pearls before the swine", including all O.T.O. initiation degrees. from 0° – Minerval to XI° – Baphomet:

"VI. Price The price of any individual degree is $93.  Payment methods: 1. PayPal, bank transfer, Visa, Mastercard. [...] VII. Enrollment Going through the degrees is possible in an individual or group format. In order to enroll, one needs to send a request to 93@b-oto.org specifying: — Full name — Location — Degree requested — Preferred time for starting the work — Payment information"

(Source: THE “O.T.O. TEACHINGS AND INITIATION SYSTEM” PROGRAM - - -  https://basileus-oto.org/oto-program/  )


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5792
 
Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

XI° – Baphomet

Baphomet was AC's designation at the X*.

I don't remember if he had a designation at the XI*, but I don't think so, nut if there is one, it can be found in the Papyrus of Ani.

The only degree worth having is OHO, (XII* sometimes so numbered), because that's the only grade high enough to be able to say "approve" or "disapprove" to any member of any lesser degree. Why do they not offer the OHO ship, and why has Bafo been tagged with an XI?

Again, the clandestine copycats have erected a Zone they hope to make Hot, and collect all the fees in advance before Anicca kicks in.

I am also confused about delivery. Do they mail (or email) the rite to the Can.'.?

Do they impose the rite via Zoom or a fast TikTok?

Does the Can travel through virus-infested low land and swamps to reach their lair in order to get processed?

Or do they send the Saladin triad to the Can.'.s home?

Will I get a bestowed blank disk at my I*, or do I have to buy my own?

Will I get a shiny, new, sharp dagger at my II*, or must I make my own?

Will I be taking the irrevocable Oath of Obedience to Baphomet, or Sabazius, or Hymen B, or who? This is a critical question, and it must be answered before we can summon said dictator to the Karmatic Kouncil Khamber to account for hirself.

I confess to having attended the dentist today, for traumatic atrocities, and now being under the influence of legal opioid chemistry, so I really don't have the slightest reserve of Will left that is interested in reading the BOZO BOTO OTO MANIFES-TO, where all of my questions are certainly answered, even in code or shrouded in mystery.

So perhaps one of you Samaritans or Sannyassins can help a feeble, addled, opioid-infused, orally-damaged unit get a grasp on the big picture of this outrageous upstart. I must have the details in order to provide a grok unto the nameless silent watcher.

You see, I sense a rodent, but (as usual) I need the Evidence before I can proceed.

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Payment methods: 1. PayPal, bank transfer, Visa, Mastercard.

Uh oh. The same olde "application of spiritual force to material ends. It's that olde Black Magic that we love so well.

When I had all the degrees (Student and Probe up to Magus) open and online, with tasks to be done at each level, I didn't charge a penny. The traveler left electronic signatures upon each of the oaths, and proceeded by affidavit that they had done the work. Of course, it was purposely easy to cheat one's way through. All you had to do was lie. "I certify that I have gained control over my physical body and breath." etc.

The danger to the liar lay in the fact that he/she could bot get past any gate without taking the oath of the grade. The result of that (taking all 9 or 10 oaths in a single sitting) could either do absolutely nothing ... or ... open a bombshell. Which result ensued would depend upon the potency of my symbols placed there ... and ... the sensitivity of the Can.'..

So, you see, It's easy for me to blame "non-sensitivity" on anybody who doesn't get something good out of it. The over-riding problem is that not ONE person entered the first gate, and that gate was open for about three years. I did not advertise. Nothing. Nobody "found" it. But it would have been free if they had. Places that announce themselves, then ask a fee for initiation may deliver a powerful punch ... or it may be a clever biz venture, concocted by a disgruntled II* and his Minerval girlfriend, who had a copy of the Secret Rituals, with a full understanding of the rites of the VIIIth (Epopt et Pontif) and the full-color, widescreen, 3D production of the holistic (whole) rite of the IX* ... as I so recently discussed with Esuire Barter of Britannia on the "some other" thread ... 2 or 3 days ago. Said "full understanding" might be doubtful.

Thus there are no witnesses or test subject or guinea pigs ... except for Tiger. He saw one of the rites in wide-screen color 2D mode. Since there was no Oath of secrecy involved, he is free to provide a review ... unless the secret chiefs have erased his memory in this regard. 

Really, when the opioid wears off, in a day or two, I might come back and re-read this Manifesto and Request for Funds. 


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Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1777
 

Tiger. He saw one of the rites in wide-screen color 2D mode.

I am reminded of
The Four Powers of the Sphinx–to Know, to Will, to Dare and to Keep Silent
in things incommunicable, by words,
but here.

I went to Shiva’s everyday for 5 days
i would study his books there and have conversations with him and his wife and kept company with Scooter, Robbie,and on occasion, Leslie.
After dinner Shiva would do some magical passes and i would retire back to the inn.
After some adventures through the week the fourth day arrived.
Magical items were placed on the altar, we sat in meditation for about an hour and a half and then we went out.
The universal astral fluid became charged.
In the clear sky signs of an arrow, a dragon, a phoenix, and winged beings manifested then quickly the heavens became veiled and the moving lights above thundered.
The atmosphere became thick, we went back in; Kali his wife was able to tenaciously pull something out of me.
A high ranking member of the Black Lodge was ejected that day.
My gears were shifted.

image

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Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1777
 

oops that was Bobbie not Robbie.
correction.
kept company with Scooter, Bobbie, and on occasion, Leslie.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5792
 
Posted by: @tiger

oops that was Bobbie

oops that was Bobby. It get's confusing, doesn't it? Bobbie is the spelling for a female Bobby.

space dog clr

I was thinking of the video you saw, not the whole five-day ordeal. You see, I was comparing my free online system to this $93 per degree system for OTO stuff. 


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Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1777
 

@Shiva
Which video ?
Student ?
Probationer Ritual Liber Causae ?
or some other ?


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5792
 
Posted by: @tiger

Which video ?

Am-Tuat.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2855
 
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @tiger

Which video ?

Am-Tuat.

Potty mouth. 


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5792
 
Posted by: @christibrany

Potty mouth.

First dom thinks Bulls use potties, then you think anatomical structure from the bedroom are involved in the toilet room (true, but only indirectly). Can we get things straight here?

1. Potty-mouth = Words associated with human urine and feces.

2. Barnyard-mouth = the same as #1, but involves farm animals (bulls, chickens, etc).

3. Sexy-mouth = Words associated with reproduction (even if mis-spelled).

I think that g=covers it. If there are other eligible -mouths, please speak/write up. We strive to maintain the highest standards in up-to-date QBL, even if this column equilibrates the lowest possible terminology suitable for the dirtiest of minds.


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Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1777
 

@shiva
Can we get things straight here?
are other eligible -mouths, please speak/write up. We strive to maintain the highest standards in up-to-date QBL,

The Opening of the Mouth ceremony involves the animation of a lifeless effigy by magically opening its mouth so that it can breathe and speak.
The succession of rites of passage and procession of detaching the existent in present form; and entering, passing through the Gates into the unknown next.

The earth was created with magic, the world is imbued with magic and so is every living thing upon it. When humans were created, that magic took the form of the soul, an eternal force which resides in and with every human being. In The Egyptian concept of the soul and the numerous parts : Khet or the "physical body", Sah or the "spiritual body", Ren or the "name, identity", Ba or the "personality", Ka or the "double", Ib or the "heart", Shut or the "shadow", Sekhem or the "power, form", can be reawakened and unified by designed rites with gates, hidden chambers and touching-points between the mundane world and the Sound quietude.

image
image

could not find the Am-Tuat video
the secret chiefs have erased my memory
unless the vision of the Neter-khertet in the AM before the twilight was a vague recollection.

 


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Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1777
 

Weight off the riches of the mind;
a camel image,
formed with the intelligence of the heart;
transit, irrigate.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5792
 
Posted by: @tiger

could not find the Am-Tuat video
the secret chiefs have erased my memory

That just goes to show ya ...

It's always something missing

 


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sangewanchuck56
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 113
 

@pox93

If anyone is truly interested in the discovery of occult secrets reportedly held in the halls of Freemasonry and the OTO, even the AA – would probably enjoy a very deep dive into Tibetan Buddhism, where all the so-called "secrets" have been stabilized and consistent over hundreds of years (and according to the Bøn, 18,000 years) and all the squabble about who really has the one true secret and who doesnt is no longer an issue. Plus, you will find many similarities, so many that it will tickle you to pieces.

I was a lifelong initiated western practitioner, yet when I discovered Tibetan Buddhism and received initiation there, I began view Liber Al vel Legis and other western societies as extensions of the Eastern Mystery Dharma Schools. Specifically I see Liber Al now as more of a "terma" from the Tibetan Tradition, a way to seeding the Dharma into the West. This is a special view indeed! I hope many of you have already arrived.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2855
 

@sangewanchuck56

 

You may enjoy the Buddhism and Thelema thread that was recently started.  We did find a lot in common with the curricula of the A.:.A.:., the layout of the Sephira and Buddhist 'levels' 


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sangewanchuck56
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 113
 

@christibrany thank you for the heads up and welcoming!


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5792
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

would probably enjoy a very deep dive into Tibetan Buddhism

A few folks here have taken that dive. Many so-called Thelemites have moved on to study the Tibetan deal.

 


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sangewanchuck56
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 113
 

@shiva this is excellent news! Previously to my arrival here, I have 0 people in my life to discuss this intersection with, and now I have many 🙂


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5792
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

this is excellent news! Previously to my arrival here, I have 0 people in my life to discuss this intersection with, and now I have many

Not many, just a few. I have extolled the virtues of the cosmology from The Roof of the World, but mainly I've gotten little response. Many Thelemites have tossed in their Liber ALs in favor of Tibet, but they don't hang around Thelemic-type sites any more. Most folks here are into Crowley plus a side-interest or two. Hardly anyone lines them all up and refuses to accept any one (or two) of them, due to the fact that they have transcended any (any) interest in any one system.

There is only one invisible spectrum of consciousness. (period). It has no name, except for the bumper stickers stuck on it by people who invent names for religions and philosophies (usually followed by extensive explanations).

However, this here is the A.C. Society, so those who seek the invisible spectrum through him (Perdurabo, et al) know to turn to The Book of Lies, which sums up the whole deal.

Good luck on finding "many" who will run along with you across the Himalayan peaks. As usual, and everywhere at that, you may find the esoteric "few" who like the thin air of Lhasa.

 


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 3548
 

Maybe not "many", but at least "several".

Welcome, sangewanchuck56.


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dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2955
 
Posted by: @christibrany

@sangewanchuck56

 

You may enjoy the Buddhism and Thelema thread that was recently started.  We did find a lot in common with the curricula of the A.:.A.:., the layout of the Sephira and Buddhist 'levels' 

 

BINAH  Praise/blame

CHESED  Gain/Loss

GEBURAH Ill will

TIPARETH Happiness/suffering

NETZACH  Fame/insignificance

HOD Doubt about enlightenment

YESOD Anxiety

AKASHA  Laziness

AIR  Opinions

FIRE  Permanent self

WATER  Rituals

EARTH  Worldly desire

 

..is to be overcome by basic simple sitting or breath awareness.  Crowleyan leg-crushing asanas, visualizing tattwas with a stopwatch, rising on the planes, Liber O or Liber E etc etc didn't come into it as such.    

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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fraterihsan
(@fraterihsan)
Magus
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 34
 
Posted by: @ignant666

"In the name of Satan, Baphomet, and Hitler, I seal the Oaths I have taken here permanently, which knights me a Mystic Templar.

This is a "nexion" of the "Order Of Nine Angles". They are Nazis, and Satanists, but not Thelemites.

They're not Thelemites. 

From what I know they did, in their earlier years, have Crowley in their reading materials but as the order developed they gradually took a more adversarial view towards Thelema (as they do with LaVeyan Satanism). Nowadays they have several papers writing against Crowley and Thelema btw.

They're not quite "Satanists" in a definitive sense from what I've read, their Satanism comprises of their lower grades, their higher grades are like a "liberation from ideologies" kind of thing, but that could be a half-truth. "National Socialism" is like a means to an end for them, but their overarching aims tend to reflect it a little too much, so calling them Nazis isn't false either. Their rhetoric comprises of the same Nazi Dualism of yesteryear. 

 


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 3548
 

I think parsing whether or not folks who swear in Satan's name, and have rituals that include the words

Q: Are you a Satanist?

A: I am...

are in fact Satanists is kinda silly. Take them at their word.

And i'm glad you agree that calling these Jew-haters who who swear in Hitler's name "Nazis" "isn't false".

And that they are not Thelemites is pretty clear.

So your point was?

 

 


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