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AC's writings on BOTL supports 395 as II:76 cipher's total value:

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wellreadwellbred
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AC's writings on BOTL support 395 as II:76 cipher's total value:

 

"David Allen Hulse’s solution -- March 10, 1979", "Aleisterion’s solution -- 1990 & 2010", and "Wizardiaoan’s Solution (Walt DeLong) -- Feb 2, 1999", all use Serial English Gematria A=1 to Z = 26, and all lead to "Total value of the Cipher is: 395".

(Source: Page 9, page 18 and 24, in "Secrets of the Cipher Naughts - A Survey of Solutions to Liber AL verse II:76 (version 2.0) by R. L. Gillis - Copyright 2014".) 

 

AC's writings on on BOTL does also support 395 as II:76 cipher's total value:

Aleister Crowley: New Comment to his The Book of the Law II: 75-76: “Be ye well assured all, that the solution, when it is found will be unquestionable. It will be marked with the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction.”:

Using the most basic of basic Serial English Gematria A=1 Z=26, on the II:76 cipher, and just adding the numbers, gives as its total value the number 395:

4+6+3+8+1+2+11+2+4+1+12+7+13+15+18+3+25+24+24+89+18+16+19+20+15+22+1+12 = 395 

 

Aleister Crowley in the second Chapter of his The Book of the Law, verse 76.: 

"4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y X 24 89 R P S T O V A L. What meaneth this, o prophet? Thou knowest not; nor shalt thou know ever. There cometh one to follow thee: he shall expound it. ..."

 

Aleister Crowley in the last Chapter of his The Book of the Law, verse 39.:
“All this and a book to say how thou didst come hither and a reproduction of this ink and paper for ever -- for in it is the word secret & not only in the English -- and thy comment upon this the Book of the Law shall be printed beautifully in red ink and black upon beautiful paper made by hand; and to each man and woman that thou meetest, were it but to dine or to drink at them, it is the Law to give. Then they shall chance to abide in this bliss or no; it is no odds. Do this quickly!”

Aleister Crowley expounds upun the number 395 in the latter book's (= The Equinox of the Gods), "chapter 7, Chapter 7 Remarks on the method of receiving Liber Legis, on the Conditions prevailing at the time of the writing, and on certain technical difficulties connected with the Literary form of the Book.":

[Frater Achad] "... understood that this Book was, so to speak, a vesture or veil upon the idea of “not.” In Hebrew “not” is LA, 31, and AL is God, 31, while there is a third 31 still deeplier hidden in the double letter ST, which is a graphic glyph of the sun and moon conjoined to look like a foreshortened Phallus, thus–when written in Greek capitals. This S or Sigma is like a phallus, thus, [Greek], when writ small ; and like a serpent or spermatozoon when writ final, thus, [Greek]. This T or Theta is the point in the circle, or phallus in the kteis, and also the Sun just as C is the Moon, male and female. [...]

Now then this Two-in-One letter [sun, moon], is the third Key to this Law; and on the discovery of that fact, after years of constant seeking, what sudden splendours of Truth, sacred as secret, blazed in the midnight of my mind.! Observe now: “this circle squared in its failure is a key also.” Now I knew that in the value of the letters of ALHIM, “the Gods,” the Jews had concealed a not quite correct value of [pi], the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter, to 4 places of decimals: 3.1415; nearer would be 3.1416. If I prefix our Key, 31, putting [sun, moon], Set or Satan, before the old Gods, I get 3.141593, [pi] correct to Six places, Six being my own number and that of Horus the Sun. And the whole number of this new Name is 395, which on analysis yields and astounding cluster of numerical “mysteries.” (Shin 300 Teth 9 Aleph 1 Lamed 30 He 5 Yod 10 Mem 40. Note that 395 being the corrections required!"

 

Shin 300 pluss Teth 9 [that is the third Key to AC's BOTL, according to him], added to Aleph 1, pluss Lamed 30, pluss He 5, pluss Yod, and pluss 10 Mem 40 [that is ALHIM, “the Gods”, according to AC], gives the number 395.

 

"There cometh one to follow thee: he shall expound it.", mentioned in Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law, with respect to the II:76 cipher, might pertain parly to Frater Achad:

 

"Crowley wrote about Liber AL in great detail throughout the remainder of his life, apparently attempting to decipher its mysteries. [...]

[For example] "Via prophecy"[:]

Crowley would later consider the subsequent events of his life, and the apparent fulfilment of certain 'predictions' of the book, as further proof: [...]

One such key event was Charles Stansfeld Jones claiming the grade of Magister Templi, which Crowley saw as the birth of his 'Magical Son'. Crowley believed that Jones later went on to "discover the Key of it all" as foretold in the book (II:76, III:47). Crowley believed that Jones' discovery of the critical value of 31 gave Crowley further insight into his qabalistic understanding and interpretation of the book. Upon receiving notification of this discovery, Crowley replied:

\ = 418. "Thou knowest not." Your key opens Palace. CCXX has unfolded like a flower. All solved, even II.76 & III.47. Did you know Π = 3.141593? And oh! lots more!"

(Source: "The Book of the Law[.] This article is about the book by Aleister Crowley." - - - The Book of the Law - Wikipedia (beparanoid.de) )

What Aleister Crowley wrote in 1904, "There cometh one to follow thee: he shall expound it.", can according to his Thelema not pertain fully to him anyway. As he in the second most important book of it written in 1909, The Vision and the Voice, describes crossing an Abyss (separating the human consciousness from a consciousness which is beyond it), and being reborn as "a Babe of the Abyss".

And retaining even a portion of one's individuality is not an option, if one shall succeed in Crossing the Abyss:

 

"3. Thou shalt mingle thy life with the universal life. Thou shalt keep not back one drop. [...] 12. And behold! if by stealth thou keep unto thyself one thought of thine, then shalt thou be cast out into the abyss for ever; and thou shalt be the lonely one, the eater of dung, the afflicted in the Day of Be-with-Us."

(Source: Liber Cheth, verse 3., and verse 12. First published in The Equinox I, no. 6 (1911), it is one of Aleister Crowley's first post-1909 writings, describing the process of crossing the Abyss. It instructs the aspirant to dissolve one's personality in the "Universal Life", in order to be reborn in "the city of the Pyramids", mentioned in verse 6.)

 

“…It [=Crossing the Abyss] is attained by the resolve of the Adeptus Exemptus to surrender all that he has and is for ever. It is an annihilation of all the bonds that compose the self or constitute the Cosmos, a resolution of all complexities into their elements…”.

(Source: One Star in Sight, the manifesto of A.'.A.'., first published in Magick in Theory and Practice, 1930.

That is, according to his Thelema, Aleister Crowley personality would be dissolved after him crossing the Abyss in 1909, and being reborn as "a Babe of the Abyss". Thus making him no longer be the one he was in 1904, writing: "There cometh one to follow thee: he shall expound it."

From then on, instead being the "one to follow thee", who "shall expound" the II:76 cipher, and its "unquestionable" "solution" 395, which "...will be marked with the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction."

This topic was modified 2 months ago by wellreadwellbred

   
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wellreadwellbred
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Correction:

"Shin 300, pluss Teth 9 [that is the third Key to AC's BOTL, according to him], added to Aleph 1, pluss Lamed 30, pluss He 5, pluss Yod 10, and pluss Mem 40 [that is ALHIM, “the Gods”, according to AC] ( 300+9+1+30+5+10+40), gives the number 395."


   
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wellreadwellbred
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Sorry for chain posting but i forgot to mention that I found the solution yesterday 16:28 local time in Norway, that is Saturday 1st October 2022.

Also, further corrections:

 

"... AC's writings on BOTL do also support 395 as II:76 cipher's total value:

[...]

Aleister Crowley expounds upon the number 395 in the latter book's (= The Equinox of the Gods), "chapter 7, Chapter 7 Remarks on the method of receiving Liber Legis, on the Conditions prevailing at the time of the writing, and on certain technical difficulties connected with the Literary form of the Book.":"

[...]

"... "There cometh one to follow thee: he shall expound it.", mentioned in Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law, with respect to the II:76 cipher, might pertain partly to Frater Achad: ..."

[...]

"(Source: One Star in Sight, the manifesto of A.'.A.'., first published in Magick in Theory and Practice, 1930.)"

[...]

"That is, according to his Thelema, Aleister Crowley's personality would be dissolved after him crossing the Abyss in 1909, and being reborn as "a Babe of the Abyss". Thus making him no longer be the one he was in 1904, writing: "There cometh one to follow thee: he shall expound it." ..."


   
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the_real_simon_iff
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You don't really say that you found THE SOLUTION just yesterday? While mentioning it was already found multiple times before in the last 45 years. Congrats. Anyway, nowhere in the AC quotes you brought up, does he support the "fact" that 395 is the total of the cypher. Or that 395 is somehow superspecial for him. Or that 395 has anything to do with your theory that AC himself was the one to follow him, but newborn. But welcome to the solvers' club.


   
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wellreadwellbred
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the real simon iff: "You don't really say that you found THE SOLUTION just yesterday?"

Not so much finding AC's own solution, as just noticing him expounding up on it within The Equinox of the Gods, his book first published in 1936, detailing events and circumstances with respect to the central text of his Thelema, his The Book of the Law. In line with verse 39 in the last chapter of it, concerning him writing a book about this core text of his Thelema.

 

the real simon iff: "nowhere in the AC quotes you brought up [...] does he support [...] that 395 is somehow superspecial for him."

Aleister Crowley does describe it as "... the whole number of this new Name [...] which on analysis yields and astounding cluster of numerical “mysteries.”"

And he is according to what he wrote in his The Book of the Law, not supposed to ever know the meaning of II:76 cipher:

"... What meaneth this, o prophet? Thou knowest not; nor shalt thou know ever. There cometh one to follow thee: he shall expound it. ..."

But according to Crowley's New Comment to his The Book of the Law's II:76: 

"It is the prophet, the 'forth-speaker' who is never to know this mystery. But that does not prevent it from lying within the comprehension of the Beast, kept secret by him in order to prove any one who should claim sonship. ..."

 

And as already mentioned by me in the first posting of this thread, AC's New Comment to his The Book of the Law II: 75-76, where he states: “Be ye well assured all, that the solution, when it is found will be unquestionable. It will be marked with the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction.”, is in support of 395 being the solution to the II:76 cipher.

As getting to that solution, involves only the most simplistic use of Gematria, only using the most basic Serial English Gematria A=1 Z=26, on the II:76 cipher, and just adding up the numbers. 

 


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Sorry for chain posting but i forgot to mention that I found the solution yesterday 16:28 local time in Norway, that is Saturday 1st October 2022.

Say, this should be Headline News in bold type - maybe red letters.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

You don't really say that you found THE SOLUTION just yesterday?

This appears to be true, yes, the statement is true, but can the solution hold water, too?

The solution is so long and filled with numbers, tiny and big, that my poor feeble mind could not possibly track, stack, or quak the mayh, today, during a "Moderate" (G2) Geomagentic Storm.

When the menu gets whitted down to a "self-evident, comprehensible, simple statement" - please let me know. I believe [oh, no] that the entry requirements for Solutions (to anything) state that the solution must be self-evident and simple ... to begin with.

After that, one can expound infinitely upon the discovery.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

But welcome to the solvers' club.

Why, yes, of course. Please mention that his dues are payable in advance, beginning Oct the Oneth, this year. WellRead is already in default. Please prepare the Excommunication Papers.

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Not so much finding AC's own solution, as just noticing him expounding up on it within The Equinox of the Gods

Oh? That's different. A mere misunderstanding based upon a BOLD STATEMENT that was merely partial and not all-encompassing so that it would lead to Liberation for all readers, posters, and pretenders.

Forget the dues. Do the dos instead. Remain in blessed Communion, forever.

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

“Be ye well assured all, that the solution, when it is found will be unquestionable. It will be marked with the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction.”, is in support of 395 being the solution to the II:76 cipher.

Yes. Thank you for re-enforcing the entry requirement(s) for Final Solutions.

Your link[s] of/to this phrase to 395, specifically, is not clearly shown (yet). There is some hint of a Qabalistic Reverberation, But the lines between the dots need to be reinforced and welded in place.

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

As getting to that solution, is very simple, only involving use of the most basic Serial English Gematria A=1 Z=26, on the II:76 cipher, and just adding up the numbers. 

The Serial English Gematria A=1 Z=26 is the one used by The Kabalerian [sic?] Society of Canada. I have used it since 1971. But they limit it to 1 to 9. All numbers above 9 are "reduced" to a single digit. This is becauuse their application is mundane (physical plane stuff). I merely mention this to demonstrate that the method A=1 Z=26 is already in play - we are simply allowing numbers above 9 to exist - thus we enter (first) the Archetypal Realm [0 to 21], and gasp the Full Spectrum with numbers 23 and up to infinity.

 


   
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threefold31
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

And as already mentioned by me in the first posting of this thread, AC's New Comment to his The Book of the Law II: 75-76, where he states: “Be ye well assured all, that the solution, when it is found will be unquestionable. It will be marked with the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction.”, is in support of 395 being the solution to the II:76 cipher.

As getting to that solution, involves only the most simplistic use of Gematria, only using the most basic Serial English Gematria A=1 Z=26, on the II:76 cipher, and just adding up the numbers. 

Dwtw

The number 395 is indeed the sum of this concocted word שטאלהימ ShTALHIM. It is also the sum of the Cipher glyphs if one uses the simplistic A=1 to Z=26 English gematria. But there is no reason to connect the two other than the fact of numerical equivalence. 395 is also the value of the Hebrew השמים Ha-ShMIM - The heavens. This does not appear to relate to the Cipher. Nor do any of the other equivalents from Liber D.

If A=1 to Z=26 were the correct gematria for English, there would be no need for the Prophet to "obtain the order & value of the English Alphabet", since that order and value would have already existed. You quote from my monograph on Cipher solutions, but leave out this part:

"Using the received alphabet constrains the gematria to a sequence unrelated to how words are spelled. To assume Aiwass would encode Liber AL in such a rudimentary manner is to admit that Aiwass has no significant revelations to make via the alphabet, since ABC order predates Liber AL. But this belies the instruction in verse II:55."

I do find it a bit humorous, though, that the sum of the Cipher letters using this simplistic gematria is 252, which is the rounded value of the length of the hypotenuse of the right triangle that actually solves the Cipher. So I suppose that 395 is lurking in that triangle, reminding us to use Pi on the hypotenuse in order to arrive at the correct solution.

In effect, your proposal that AC's words indicate 395 as a solution to the Cipher is really a veil for something more important that he may have been alluding to (for which see his postcard to Fr. Achad); not that 395 is the key to the solution, but that applying Pi is the key. And as we all know, Pi is simply a ratio of diameter to Circumference.

Litlluw

O.L.


   
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herupakraath
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

AC's writings on on BOTL does also support 395 as II:76 cipher's total value:

Aleister Crowley: New Comment to his The Book of the Law II: 75-76: “Be ye well assured all, that the solution, when it is found will be unquestionable. It will be marked with the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction.”:

Using the most basic of basic Serial English Gematria A=1 Z=26, on the II:76 cipher, and just adding the numbers, gives as its total value the number 395:

4+6+3+8+1+2+11+2+4+1+12+7+13+15+18+3+25+24+24+89+18+16+19+20+15+22+1+12 = 395 

The number of different gematria systems that can be created using the values 1-26 and the English alphabet is figured as 26^26. Out of those, 1 in every 84 will make the letters in the II:76 puzzle equal the value 252, which means there are 7.3287137959609015604722312957145e+34 ordinal gematria systems that will make the puzzle letters equal 252: what makes you think the system used by Hulse is unique over the other systems, and not producing a random result in the puzzle like the others?

 


   
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ignant666
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Posted by: @herupakraath

The number of different gematria systems that can be created using the values 1-26 and the English alphabet is figured as 26^26.

You will have to pardon my deficient understanding of the notation you have used, and also my inability to find out what is meant by "^" by googling that symbol, and by googling "mathematics notation symbols".

The only answer i can find is that the caret symbol is sometimes used to indicate exponents, but that can't possibly be what you mean- no one could imagine there were really 26 to the 26th power possible systems (could they?).

I just do not see how "26^26" can mean "351", which is of course "the number of different gematria systems that can be created using the values 1-26 and the English alphabet", since we must of course choose number values without substitution* to create a meaningful "gematria system", so what we need to do is

26+25+24+23+22+21+20+19+18+17+16+15+14+13+12+11+10+9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1 = 351

_______________________

*Once we have assigned one of the digits from 1-26 to a letter, it is no longer available to be assigned to another letter, right? So there are 26 possibilities only for the first letter, and the number of possible digit values decreases with each assignment.


   
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herupakraath
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Posted by: @ignant666

I just do not see how "26^26" can mean "351", which is of course "the number of different gematria systems that can be created using the values 1-26 and the English alphabet", since we must of course choose number values without substitution* to create a meaningful "gematria system", so what we need to do is

26+25+24+23+22+21+20+19+18+17+16+15+14+13+12+11+10+9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1 = 351

My original response was rhetorical, and meant to make the point that no matter what gematria equation a system produces, there will be an almost infinite number of them that can produce the same equation, thus requiring more of a solution than simply assigning a value to the puzzle.

The actual means for determining how many gematria systems there are, is to multiply the values 1-26, which is still a fantastic number: 403,291,461,126, 605,635,584,000,000.


   
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ignant666
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Posted by: @herupakraath

The actual means for determining how many gematria systems there are, is to multiply the values 1-26, which is still a fantastic number. : 403,291,461,126, 605,635,584,000,000.

No, i don't think it is. I have demonstrated what i think is the correct means, and the answer, which is 351. And not 403,291,461,126,605,635,584,000,000. Or your earlier (much larger) guess of 2626.

Consider an alphabet with four letters A, B, C, D, and four corresponding values 1,2,3,4. You seem to think that there are 256 (44) possible gematria systems to be constructed here (your first claim), or perhaps 1*2*3*4 = 24 possible gematria systems (current claim).

But: A can be 1, 2, 3, or 4. Once we have assigned one of those values to A, there are three remaining values available for B, C, and D. Once we have chosen a value for B, there are only two possible values for C and D. Once we have chosen a value for C, there is only one possible value for D.

So there are 4+3+2+1= 10 possible systems here. Why are you multiplying, rather than adding? I am no math whiz, so perhaps you are correct, but you aren't explaining why very well if so.


   
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ignant666
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After working out the possible gematrias generated by a four-unit alphabet, i have concluded that @herupakraath did actually get it right the second time, and the way we calculate the number of possible gematrias is indeed by multiplying the possible digit values, so for a four-unit alphabet the formula is 1*2*3*4 = 24 possible gematrias.

But this second try by him only occurred after i called bullshit on his earlier pronouncement that the formula was to take the number of values at an exponent equal to the number of values, ie 44. Or, to use his real example, his claim that there are 2626 possible English gematrias generatable by assigning the numbers 1-26 to alphabet letters.

This is kind of a significant error, since his first method gives an answer that is 396,881,968,783 times higher than the correct answer, a false answer that is many many many many many many orders of magnitude higher than the correct one, thus (apparently, until challenged) supporting his claims that his own results are far far far far far far more significant than they actually are. Or, to use his own terminology, that he is not merely "not producing a random result in the puzzle" that is mere statistical noise.

I would urge anyone reading @herupakraath gematria analyses to check his arithmetic, and to be keenly alert for the possibility that he is, very confidently, in a condescending tone of magisterial certainty, talking out his ass, just as he was here. It is no small thing to be come up with an answer almost four hundred billion times the correct one.


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

many many [etc] orders of magnitude higher than the correct one

This is resolved by introducing the holographic paradigm. Orders of magnitude are simply numbers to get bigger or smaller, depending on the level one is referencing. 

Posted by: @ignant666

It is no small thing to be come up with an answer almost four hundred billion times ...

This is why the Kabalerian Society reduces all numbers to a single digit - to avoid the headache that accompanies big numbers.

In passing, I would note that QBL in any format starting with a "K" is easy English, but bad Hebrew. The root is QBLQ, not K. It's like spelling Chi as "Qi." It twists the western brain, so they (whoever) spell it with a to make it easy, but they (yeah, them) screw up the whole system.

Thank you.


   
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threefold31
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Dwtw

Determining how many different gematrias there are that simply enumerate from 1-26 is a matter of combinatorics known as a permutation. It's a very simple answer:

"The number of permutations of n distinct objects is n factorial, usually written as n!, which means the product of all positive integers less than or equal to n. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permutation

So in this case it is 26 factorial, or 26!, which is a huge number: my calculator shows 4.032914611266057e26

Of this gigantic number, there are untold -illions that will produce 252 as the sum of the 19 letters in the Cipher. This is one of the reasons why a simple total of the Cipher is not very conclusive as an answer, because so many alternative systems would produce that same number.

Because there are 14 unique letters in the Cipher, using a 1-26 scheme has a maximum output of 385 for the letters (including the repeats), and a minimum output of 116. That range of 270 possible outcomes is spread out in a curve over the entirety of the 26! possible arrangements, with many -illions of possible gematrias for each value near the middle of the range.

But this is an old argument and basically a red herring. Of course there are a huge number of alternatives that will get the same result, but that's not the right question to ask. The question is: what does the result you obtained actually say?  Any message that is encrypted could have been encrypted a lot of different ways and still look the same, but that is irrelevant. The point is to find out how it was encrypted.

 

Litlluw

O.L.


   
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wellreadwellbred
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threefold31:

"...  there are untold -illions [of different gematrias] that will produce 252 as the sum of the 19 letters in the Cipher. This is one of the reasons why a simple total of the Cipher is not very conclusive as an answer, because so many alternative systems would produce that same number."

 

As already mentioned by me in the first posting of this thread, Aleister Crowley does in his New Comment to his The Book of the Law II: 75-76, state that:

"This passage following appears to be a Qablaistic test (on the regular pattern) of any person who may claim to be the Magical Heir of The Beast. Be ye well assured all that the solution, when it is found, will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction."

 

Is it the case that every use of gemetria leading to the same simple [sum] total for the II,76 Cipher in AC's BOTL, will appear to be as simplistic as any other use leading to the same simple [sum] total, or will one of them appear to be the most simplistic and the most straightforward?

 

Compare with the three following different examples of simplistic gemetria calculations used on the II,76 Cipher in AC's BOTL, that leads to three different simple totals for its sum: 

 

II,76 Cipher: 4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y X 24 89 R P S T O V A L[.]

 
Example of simplistic gematria producing 395 as the simple total of the II,76 Cipher in AC's BOTL:
 
4+6+3+8+1+2+11+2+4+1+12+7+13+15+18+3+25+24+24+89+18+16+19+20+15+22+1+12 = 395[.] (With A=1 to Z=26):
 
A=1 B=2 C=3 D=4 E=5 F=6 G=7 H=8 I=9 J=10 K=11 L=12 M=13 N=14 O=14 P=16 Q=17 R=18 S=19 T=20 U=21 V=22 W=23 X=24 Y=25 Z=26[.]
 
 
 
Example of simplistic gematria producing 404 as the simple total of the II,76 Cipher in AC's BOTL:
 
4 + 6 + 3 + 8 + 26 + 25 + 16 + 2 + 4 + 26 + 15 + 20 + 14 + 12 + 9  + 3 + 2 + 3 + 24 + 89 + 9 + 11 + 8 + 7 + 12 + 5 + 26 + 15 = 404[.] (With A=26 to Z=1):  
 
A=26 B=25 C=24 D=23 E=22 F=21 G=20 H=19 I=18 J=17 K=16 L=15 M=14 N=13 O=12 P=11 Q=10 R=9 S=8 T=7 U=6 V=5 W=4 X=3 Y=2 Z=1[.]
 
 
Example of simplistic gematria producing 376 as the simple total of the II,76 Cipher in AC's BOTL:
4 +6 + 3 + 8 +0 + 1 +1 0+ 2 + 4 + 0 + 11 + 6 + 12 + 14 + 17 +3 + 24 + 23  +24+ 89+ 17 + 15 + 18 + 19 + 14 + 21 + 0 + 11 = 376[.] (With A=0 to Z=25  ):
 
A=0 B=1 C=2 D=3 E=4 F=5 G=6 H=7 I=8 J=9 K=10 L=11 M=12 N=13 O=14 P=15 Q=16 R=17 S=18 T=19 U=20 V=21 W=22 X=23 Y=24 Z=25[.]
 

   
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wellreadwellbred
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Example of simplistic gematria producing 640 as the simple total of the II,76 Cipher in AC's BOTL:

 

4 + 6 + 3 + 8 + 25 + 24 + 15 + 2 + 4 + 25 + 14 + 19 + 13 + 11 + 8 + 3 + 1 + 2 + 24 + 89 + 8 + 10 + 7 + 6 + 11 + 4 + 25 + 14 = 640[.] (With A=25 and Z=0):

A=25 B=24 C=23 D=22 E=21 F=20 G=19 H=18 I=17 J=16 K=15 L=14 M=13 N=12 O=11 P=10 Q=9 R=8 S=7 T=6 U=5 V=4 W=3 X=2 Y=1 Z=0[.]


   
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hadgigegenraum
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Posted by: @threefold31

395 is also the value of the Hebrew השמים Ha-ShMIM - The heavens. This does not appear to relate to the Cipher.

Au contraire... If we review the verse again we find:

"But remember, o chosen one, to be me; to follow the love of Nu in the star-lit heaven; to look forth upon men, to tell them this glad word."

So to say that the word "heavens" has no connection with the verse means perhaps one needs to look outside of the said 'cipher', navel gazing, for contextual clues of significance...which is not to belittle the practice of omphaloskepsis per say...

As regard all the talk about maths, with dizzying exponential potentialities and the like, it all seems to beg a mechanized answer... sort of like a "Tower of Babel" that is the fantasy of the  "Artificial Intelligence" neurosis, of more computer power, etc is all that is needed.... when in contrast to such digital wizardry, or rather enslavement, I would dare to say that the answer is more likely found in something more simple, poetic, and heavenly!

93

HG


   
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wellreadwellbred
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threefold31: "395 is also the value of the Hebrew השמים Ha-ShMIM - The heavens. This does not appear to relate to the Cipher."

hadgigegenraum: "Au contraire... If we review the verse again we find:
"But remember, o chosen one, to be me; to follow the love of Nu in the star-lit heaven; to look forth upon men, to tell them this glad word." "

Touché! And in a larger context, this relates to the general subject matter of Crowley's The Book of the Law:

"1. Had! The manifestation of Nuit. 2. The unveiling of the company of heaven. ..." 
(Source: AC's BOTL, Chaper 1, verse 1. & 2.)

 

ignant666: "It is no small thing to be come up with an answer almost four hundred billion times ...".

Shiva: "This is why the Kabalerian Society reduces all numbers to a single digit - to avoid the headache that accompanies big numbers."

Yes, and Crowley doing this with 395, would involve adding the single digits in that number, first by 3+9+5 leading to 17, and repeating this by 1+7 until ending up with the single digit 8. The reason Crowley does not do this is expouned upon by him in chapter 7, in his book The Equinox of the Gods, first published in 1936, detailing events and circumstances with respect to the central text of his Thelema, his The Book of the Law.

In the thread titled "RPSTOVAL, The Key of AL and The Egg", is mentioned a cryptic message sent in 1919 to Frater Achad, by Crowley. In it the latter states that his BOTL's verses II. 76 & III.47 are solved, and point out "Did you know π = 3.141593?", being a reference to "Circle squared in it's failure" as later expounded by Crowley in The Equinox of the Gods.

And this leads to the following smart remark from ignant666: "An interesting and useful post. All i can add is this: you wonder why AC gives pi as 3.141593, when the first six decimal digits of pi are actually 3.141592.
But the first seven decimal digits are 3.1415926, so we can round up the final 6, thus making the preceding 2 a 3, to state pi to six decimal digits as AC does." (Source "RPSTOVAL, The Key of AL and The Egg" - - - https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/101680/ )

As mentioned by me at the beginning of this thread, Crowley expounds upon the number 395 in his book The Equinox of the Gods, a book first published in 1936, detailing events and circumstances with respect to the central text of his Thelema, his The Book of the Law.

There Crowley mentions "... 395 being the corrections required!", for "... a not quite correct value of [pi], the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter, to 4 places of decimals: 3.1415;" that he "knew" "the Jews had concealed", "in the value of the letters of ALHIM, “the Gods,”".

In the same source he further expounds upon the number 395 thus:

"If I prefix our Key, 31, putting [sun, moon], Set or Satan, before the old Gods, I get 3.141593, [pi] correct to Six places, Six being my own number and that of Horus the Sun. And the whole number of this new Name is 395, which on analysis yields and astounding cluster of numerical “mysteries.” [The following text is accentuated by Crowley in italics in the original source:] (Shin 300 Teth 9 Aleph 1 Lamed 30 He 5 Yod 10 Mem 40. Note that 395 being the corrections required! Note also the 31 and the 93 in this value of [pi].)"

(Further detail with respect to Crowley who loved to play around with numbers: The last three digits in the pi he gets by "putting [sun, moon], Set or Satan, before the old Gods", is 593, the number 395 reversed.)

So the answer to why AC gives pi as 3.141593, is because of the importance of the number 93 in his Thelema.

And the answer to why he does not reduce 395, the simple [sum] total for the II,76 Cipher in his The Book of the Law, using the most basic of basic Serial English Gematria A=1 to Z=26, is his use of it to "solve"(*) verse 47. from the third and last chapter in this book:

"47. This book shall be translated into all tongues: but always with the original in the writing of the Beast; for in the chance shape of the letters and their position to one another: in these are mysteries that no Beast shall divine. Let him not seek to try: but one cometh after him, whence I say not, who shall discover the Key of it all. Then this line drawn is a key: then this circle squared in its failure is a key also. And Abrahadabra. It shall be his child & that strangely. Let him not seek after this; for thereby alone can he fall from it."

( (*) I refer you to AC's message to Frater Achad in 1919: "\ = 418."Thou knowest not." Your key opens Palace. CCXX has unfolded like a flower. All solved, even II.76 & III.47. Did you know ^ = 3.141593? And oh! lots more!" (srd.) AL'AIN the Priest....666". (Source: Liber 31 by Frater Achad (Charles Stansfield Jones) - - - https://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib31.htm ))

( Some observations:

AC's BOTL, Chapter 2, verse 55.[:]
"Thou shalt obtain [= pick up] the order & value of the English Alphabet; thou shalt find new symbols to attribute [= refer] them unto."

"Synonyms of 'obtain' in British English obtain [...] 1 (verb) in the sense of get[.] [...] Definition[;] to gain possession of[.] Definition[;] to gain possession of[.] Synonyms[:] [...] get [...] pick up [...] get hold of [...]".
(Source: Synonyms of 'obtain' in British English - - - https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english-thesaurus/obtain )

"Synonyms of 'attribute' in British English attribute [...] (verb) in the sense of ascribe[.] [...] Definition[;] to regard as belonging to or produced by[.] Synonyms[:] ascribe[,] apply [...] refer [...] assign [...] allot [...]".
(Source: Synonyms of 'attribute' in British English - - - https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english-thesaurus/attribute )

Aleister Crowley: New Comment to his The Book of the Law II: 75-76:

“This passage following appears to be a Qablaistic test (on the regular pattern) of any person who may claim to be the Magical Heir of The Beast.“ Be ye well assured all, that the solution, when it is found will be unquestionable. It will be marked with the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction.”"

"Synonyms of 'regular' in British English regular [...] 1 (adjective) in the sense of frequent[.] Definition[;] occurring at fixed or prearranged intervals[.] [...] 2 (adjective) in the sense of normal[.] Definition[:] following a set rule or normal practice ...".
(Source: Synonyms of 'regular' in British English - - - https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english-thesaurus/regular )

"Synonyms of 'pattern' in British English pattern [...] 1 (noun) in the sense of order[.] Definition[;] a regular recognizable way that something is done ...".
(Source: Synonyms of 'pattern' in British English - - - https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english-thesaurus/pattern) )

As implied by me at the beginning of this thread, I do not "... claim to be the Magical Heir of The Beast."

In this thread I describe what I noticed with respect to AC's writings on his The Book of the Law supporting 395 as the solution to the II:76 cipher in that book, and among this noticing him describing 395 as the sum of the word שטאלהימ ShTALHIM.

The word "ShTALHIM" is described as constituting "... the “secret key” that is the solution to the puzzle of the second child(**)...", within a 121 pages long text titled The Anglo Qabalistic Key, a text marked "Aleisterion 2009".

( (**) In this text is also mentioned "... the first Magical Child, Achad.")

"A=1 B=2 C=3 D=4 E=5 F=6 G=7 H=8 I=9 J=10 K=11 L=12 M=13 N=14 O=15 P=16 Q=17 R=18 S=19 T=20 U=21 V=22 W=23 X=24 Y=25 Z=26", is the gematria used in this text, there called "THE AQBL KEY:".

By searching for the-aqbl-key, this text can be found online in PDF form.


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @threefold31

Determining how many different gematrias there are that simply enumerate from 1-26 ...

Aha! Perhaps the exact number of possibilities with be stated and three or more clandestine Quibblists will agree, and then that matter can be settled. But I have an observation - maybe it's a question - that it's not how many variations could be, but which one is the one that everybody agrees upon. In terms of AC puzzles, that would be 777 and Trigrammaton.

As for any other order, value, or arrangement, infinite potentials seem to exist ... but they'll need an ox-cart load of proof.


   
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threefold31
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Posted by: @hadgigegenraum
Posted by: @threefold31

395 is also the value of the Hebrew השמים Ha-ShMIM - The heavens. This does not appear to relate to the Cipher.

Au contraire... If we review the verse again we find:

"But remember, o chosen one, to be me; to follow the love of Nu in the star-lit heaven; to look forth upon men, to tell them this glad word.

Dwtw

Yes, I stand corrected.

Litlluw

O.L.


   
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threefold31
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

As already mentioned by me in the first posting of this thread, Aleister Crowley does in his New Comment to his The Book of the Law II: 75-76, state that:

"This passage following appears to be a Qablaistic test (on the regular pattern) of any person who may claim to be the Magical Heir of The Beast. Be ye well assured all that the solution, when it is found, will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction."

 

Is it the case that every use of gemetria leading to the same simple [sum] total for the II,76 Cipher in AC's BOTL, will appear to be as simplistic as any other use leading to the same simple [sum] total, or will one of them appear to be the most simplistic and the most straightforward?

Dwtw

Please actually read the quote you keep relying on. "the solution, when it is found...will be marked by the most sublime simplicity..."

You are conflating the method of arriving at the solution with the solution itself.

It is true that the 'simplest' gematria to use would be A=1 to Z=26, but that is really only 'simple' in terms of it being the laziest method possible. It takes no thought or ingenuity to employ that, and if Aiwass did so it would not be very remarkable at all. How then would AC be able to wax so prosaic about the 'preter-human' intelligence of the author?

I cannot argue that counting the alphabet from 1 to 26 is 'simple', but that in itself is not the solution.

Now the 'solution' you propose is the number 395. Yes, that's pretty simple too, but so is any other single number that is the total of the Cipher. The Trigrammaton gematria gives the total of 351 for the Cipher glyphs. That's even 'simpler' than your result, because its just the sum of the numbers from 1 to 26, the very same numbers you claim are the basis of your simple solution. But 351 isn't actually the solution provided by Trigrammaton. It's just the sum of the numbers that go into creating the solution.

 

Litlluw

O.L.


   
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wellreadwellbred
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threefold31: "Please actually read the quote you keep relying on. "the solution, when it is found...will be marked by the most sublime simplicity..."

You are conflating the method of arriving at the solution with the solution itself."

 

"This passage following appears to be a Qabalistic test (on the regular pattern) of any person who may claim to be the Magical Heir of The Beast. Be ye well assured all that the solution, when it is found, will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction.", is a quote relied on by you in your introduction to your Secrets of the Cipher Naughts - A Survey of Solutions to Liber AL verse II:76 (version 2.0). And right after using that quote you state:

"The final part of the commentary offers no ambiguity. Crowley is confident that there is only one solution, and when ‘it’ is found, it will be unquestionable, sublimely simple and immediately convincing. As we will see in the solutions that follow, most of the time these three conditions have not been fulfilled."

(Source: Page 2 in "Secrets of the Cipher Naughts - A Survey of Solutions to Liber AL verse II:76 (version 2.0) by R. L. Gillis - Copyright 2014".) 

But that quote might not be much to rely on, as it is incomplete, missing this part: 

"... (The above paragraph was written previous to the communication of Charles Stansfeld Jones with regard to the 'numbers and the words' which constitute the Key to the cipher of this Book. See the Appendix to these comment. I prefer to leave my remark as it originally stood, in order to mark my attitude at the time of writing)."

 

On the same page in the same source you ask; "What constitutes a ‘qabalistic test’, and what does it mean to be ‘on the regular pattern’? Is it a testing of a regular pattern? Or is there supposedly a typical qabalistic test that is given, and the typicality is what constitutes the ‘regular pattern?"

As already described me earlier in this thread, I observe AC's BOTL, Chapter 2, verse 55.[:] "Thou shalt obtain the order & value of the English Alphabet; thou shalt find new symbols to attribute them unto.", can be understood as a clever wording for "Thou shalt obtain [= pick up] the order & value of the English Alphabet; thou shalt find new symbols to attribute [= refer] them unto." That is, AC shall simply use "the order & value of the English Alphabet", and find new Thelemic symbols that he shall attribute to "the order & value of the English Alphabet".

 

threefold31: "The Trigrammaton gematria gives the total of 351 for the Cipher glyphs. That's even 'simpler' than your result, because its just the sum of the numbers from 1 to 26, the very same numbers you claim are the basis of your simple solution."

395 is ".... not my simple solution", my argument is that it is AC's solution.


   
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herupakraath
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Posted by: @threefold31

"The number of permutations of n distinct objects is n factoral

, usually written as n!, which means the product of all positive integers less than or equal to n. "

 

So in this case it is 26 factorial, or 26!, which is a huge number: my calculator shows 4.032914611266057e26

Or, as I stated above, by simply multiplying the numbers 1-26.

Posted by: @threefold31

Of this gigantic number, there are untold -illions that will produce 252 as the sum of the 19 letters in the Cipher.

Not untold. Assigning the values 1-26 to the letters of the alphabet randomly using software, and testing to see how many systems can make the letters equal 252, shows that one system in every 84 will do so.

Posted by: @threefold31

This is one of the reasons why a simple total of the Cipher is not very conclusive as an answer, because so many alternative systems would produce that same number.

My point exactly.

Posted by: @threefold31

Because there are 14 unique letters in the Cipher, using a 1-26 scheme has a maximum output of 385 for the letters (including the repeats), and a minimum output of 116. That range of 270 possible outcomes is spread out in a curve over the entirety of the 26! possible arrangements,

Which is another way of saying there are 270 possible values the puzzle letters can equal when enumerated with gematria systems that utilize a permutation of the values 1-26.

Applying the same logic to the groups of letters, there are 70 possible outcomes for the letters ABK, 121 for ALGMOR, 49 for XY, 89 for RPST, and 89 for OVAL. Adding the outcomes produces the value 418, and shows the number is reflected in the letters objectively:

70 + 121 + 49 + 89 + 89 = 418.

Posted by: @threefold31

The question is: what does the result you obtained actually say?

That question is pointless without first knowing what a result needs to say at a minimum in order to serve as objective evidence of a solution. The first condition is the value produced needs to be recognizable within patterns seen in the Book of the Law; showing that 418 is expressed in the letters is a good example. Another example is showing the sum of the numbers in verse II:76 equals the value of the puzzle letters when enumerated with the Tri-key:

76 + 4 + 6 + 3 + 8 + 2 + 4 + 3 + 24 + 89 = 219
ABKALGMORYXRPSTOVAL = 219

4 + 6 + 3 + 8 + 2 + 4 + 3 + 24 + 89 = 143

Once a familiar number symbol or symbols have been established within the letters, the next step toward evidence of a solution is to make them appear repeatedly, so as to dispel any doubts the numbers represented in the puzzle are intentional; this is accomplished by including number groups in the puzzle that can be added to the letter groups:

ABK ALGMOR OVAL = 143
21 + ABK + YX + OVAL = 143
6 + 21 + YX + RPST + OVAL = 143
3 + ABK + ALGMOR + RPST = 143
3 + 21 + ABK + RPST + OVAL = 143
6 + ALGMOR + RPST + OVAL = 143

ABK ALGMOR YX RPST OVAL = 219
3 + 21 + 113
+ ABK + YX = 219
6 + 21 + 113 + YX + OVAL = 219
3 + 113 + ABK + ALGMOR = 219
6 + 113 + ALGMOR + OVAL = 219
3 + 6 + 113 + ALGMOR + RPST = 219

The ability of the Tri-key gematria system to create the two repeating values in the puzzle, relies on the five gematria totals produced with the letter groups. To conclude the results shown above are luck, one must be convinced that five random numbers have fallen into place perfectly.

 


   
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wellreadwellbred
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"Exactly how Achad’s key of 31 ‘solved’ the Cipher of II:76 has never been published. Achad himself, although accepting that he was the Child and the One prophesied in Liber AL, does not seem to have ever claimed a solution to the Cipher."

(Source: Page 7 in "Secrets of the Cipher Naughts - A Survey of Solutions to Liber AL verse II:76 (version 2.0) by R. L. Gillis - Copyright 2014".) 

 

"Jones wrote a solution to II.76, and it will be included in the forthcoming book The Incoming of the Aeon of Maat[: Correspondence between Charles Stansfeld Jones, Gerald Yorke, and others, 1948-49]." (Edited by Michael Barham and Michael Staley, and published by Starfire Publishing Limited, 2020.)

(Source: Page 3 of 30 in the thrad titled "Various II:76 Cipher solutions..." - - - https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/102565/ )


   
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ignant666
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Posted by: @herupakraath

Or, as I stated above, [after incorrectly stating that by the answer is 2626] simply multiplying the numbers 1-26.

Since you got this so howlingly wrong, why should we trust any of the rest of your convoluted calculations? Yes, i got it wrong at first too, but then i don't post long pseudo-mathematical "proofs" several times a month. Nor am i a "The One Who Comes After" claimant.

Posted by: @herupakraath

The first condition is the value produced needs to be recognizable within patterns seen in the Book of the Law

And of course, besides you, no one on earth would identify 143 or 219 as "recognizable within patterns seen in the Book of the Law". So your work fails the test you yourself have set for validity.


   
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wellreadwellbred
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Correction: "(Source: Page 3 of 30 in the thread titled "Various II:76 Cipher solutions..." - - - https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/102565/ )".

Will this also become a 30 pages long thread?

In his first posting after his posting concerning Jones' solution to II.76, quoted by me above, Michael Staley states that "... In the letters of his that I have seen, Achad didn't take much interest in II.76."

(Source: Page 3 of 30 in the thread titled "Various II:76 Cipher solutions..." - - - https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/102566/


   
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wellreadwellbred
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Sorry for chain posting!

ignant666: "Since you got this so howlingly wrong, why should we trust any of the rest of your convoluted calculations? Yes, i got it wrong at first too, but then i don't post long pseudo-mathematical "proofs" several times a month. Nor am i a "The One Who Comes After" claimant."

Me: "Will this also become a 30 pages long thread?"

Whip that ego, whip it good!: "Devo - Whip It (Official Music Video) | Warner Vault[.] Warner Records Vault[:]" Devo - Whip It (Official Music Video) | Warner Vault - YouTube 


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Whip that ego, whip it good!

This does nothing, except provide self-mutilation and scenes reminiscent of Ch 3. The Ego cannot be whipped, slain, or incarcerated - it is (relatively) immortal. So its only escape is upward, through the eye the camel goes.


   
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wellreadwellbred
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The lyrics to Devo's "Whip it", for you Shiva, who is hard of hearing:

"Crack that whip

Give the past the slip

Step on a crack

Break your momma's back

When a problem comes along

You must whip it

Before the cream sits out too long

You must whip it

When something's going wrong

You must whip it

Now whip it

Into shape

Shape it up

Get straight

Go forward

Move ahead

Try to detect it

It's not too late

To whip it

Whip it good

When a good time turns around

You must whip it

You will never live it down

Unless you whip it

No one gets away

Until they whip it

I say whip it

Whip it good

I say whip it

Whip it good

Crack that whip

Give the past the slip

Step on a crack

Break your momma's back

When a problem comes along

You must whip it

Before the cream sits out too long

You must whip it

When something's going wrong

You must whip it

Now whip it

Into shape

Shape it up

Get straight

Go forward

Move ahead

Try to detect it

It's not too late

To whip it

Into shape

Shape it up

Get straight

Go forward

Move ahead

Try to detect it

It's not too late

To whip it

Whip it good"[.]


   
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wellreadwellbred
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Sorry for chain posting!

With respect to what I have already quoted above in this thread:

""Jones wrote a solution to II.76, and it will be included in the forthcoming book The Incoming of the Aeon of Maat[: Correspondence between Charles Stansfeld Jones, Gerald Yorke, and others, 1948-49]." (Edited by Michael Barham and Michael Staley, and published by Starfire Publishing Limited, 2020.)

(Source: Page 3 of 30 in the thread titled "Various II:76 Cipher solutions..." - - - https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/102565/ )" :

"... not only did Achad not claim a solution to the Cipher, but he also fell out of favor with Crowley later on, and it would be decades before mention was made in public about any attempted solutions to the Cipher of verse II:76."

(Source: Page 7 in "Secrets of the Cipher Naughts - A Survey of Solutions to Liber AL verse II:76 (version 2.0) by R. L. Gillis - Copyright 2014".) 


   
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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @herupakraath

this is accomplished by including number groups in the puzzle that can be added to the letter groups:

ABK ALGMOR OVAL = 143
21 + ABK + YX + OVAL = 143
6 + 21 + YX + RPST + OVAL = 143
3 + ABK + ALGMOR + RPST = 143
3 + 21 + ABK + RPST + OVAL = 143
6 + ALGMOR + RPST + OVAL = 143

ABK ALGMOR YX RPST OVAL = 219
3 + 21 + 113
+ ABK + YX = 219
6 + 21 + 113 + YX + OVAL = 219
3 + 113 + ABK + ALGMOR = 219
6 + 113 + ALGMOR + OVAL = 219
3 + 6 + 113 + ALGMOR + RPST = 219

Can you please explain what you mean by number groups here? I do not get it. I could imagine 21 is 4+6+3+8. Kind of makes sense. But then why suddenly add 6 (which is not a group by the way) to 21, which already contains the one and only 6. Or 3 (which also no sane human would call a group) to 21? It should be quite clear that you can come to every desired conclusion if you use the numbers more than once and add or substract it however you feel. Or am I missing something here?

 

Or to make things clearer. I just invented an arbitrary qabalah system, where every letter jumps up 7 in value and why not? Isn't 7 a perfectly magical number? So i f I do that I get:

 

A = 1

B = 8

C = 15

D = 22

E = 3 (29-26)

F = 10

G = 17

H = 24

I = 5 (31-26)

J = 12

K = 19

L = 26

M = 7 (33-26)

N = 14

O = 21

P = 2

Q = 9

R = 16

S = 23

T = 4 (30-26)

U = 11

V = 18

W = 25

X = 6 (32-6)

Y = 13

Z = 20

 

Then:

ABKALGMORYXRPSTOVAL = 1+8+19+1+26+17+7+21+16+13+6+16+2+23+4+21+18+1+26 = 246

 

I then use your "letter groups" and add "number groups", meaning groups, or single numbers, or repeating numbers and I get this:

 

ABK + XY + 113 + 24 + 21 + 21 +21 = 246

XY + OVAL + 113 + 24 + 24 = 246

ABK + ALGMOR + 113 + 4 + 6 + 2 + 3 = 246

ALGMOR + OVAL + 89 + 3 = 246

ALGMOR + RPST + 113 = 246

 

Works perfectly I think. Some of them are even more elegant than yours. ( maybe there is some error in it, it was done fast, but then I will have no problem in arriving at the same outcome).

 

So, what is your system with number groups?


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Some of them are even more elegant

In the fourth grade, I was introduced to the mathematical concepts known as percentage, fractions, and the decimal point. Why they were dumped all at one time, I do not know. These did not give me a headache, or cause nausea, but they reached in an twisted something in my brain so that I thought I might become permanently bewildered.

This thread would have already brought me to permanent bewilderment - if I closely followed the narrative and thought it was true ... which I did not do.

No, instead, I realized that there was no authoritarian teacher who would test me me on things I didn't know, and flunk me as a dunce.

Anyway, the fourth grade teacher had issued several many (too numerous to recall without risking mental combustion) equations. It was like 777 ripped up and put in a hat - then dumped on our heads.

I told my father what a problem this was ... and he sat me down and gave me a single simple equation (with only a couple rules). Holy cow! It worked well enough that I passed the exams. I wasn't really good at it, but later in life I came to rely on it from time it time. It was basic algebra.

Let's see. This thread's about AL and 395. I will now perform the Kabalerian [sick] reduction and we'll see what the basic nature of this number is ...

3+9+5 = 17  Aha! This is good enough for the 0 to 21 Atu QBL, but it's too big for the big "K." So we reduce it again: 1+7=8. This is a good number. One of the best. Prosperity. Uh-oh! Opportunities for dark dealings exist, but the true hero will just take it in stride.


   
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threefold31
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

threefold31: "Please actually read the quote you keep relying on. "the solution, when it is found...will be marked by the most sublime simplicity..."

You are conflating the method of arriving at the solution with the solution itself."

"This passage following appears to be a Qabalistic test (on the regular pattern) of any person who may claim to be the Magical Heir of The Beast. Be ye well assured all that the solution, when it is found, will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction.", is a quote relied on by you in your introduction to your Secrets of the Cipher Naughts - A Survey of Solutions to Liber AL verse II:76 (version 2.0).

...

395 is ".... not my simple solution", my argument is that it is AC's solution.

Dwtw

Yes, I relied on the quote in my monograph. I'm very familiar with it. Repeating it for me doesn't change the meaning of the words. You have avoided addressing my point, which is that in your emphasis on 'simplicity', you conflate the method of arriving at the solution, with the solution itself. Then you double down on calling this "AC's solution" but I fail to see where he ever claimed that it was.

The main flaw in your argument is that verse 2:55 quite clearly instructs Crowley to find a new gematria for English. Here are his own words on it from The Equinox:

AL II.55: "Thou shalt obtain the order & value of the English Alphabet; thou shalt find new symbols to attribute them unto."

THE OLD COMMENT

"55. Done. See Liber Trigrammaton, Comment"

{This refers to his attributions to the trigrams, done over a century ago. Because he didn't understand base 3, he had second thoughts. Thus ...}

THE NEW COMMENT

"The attribution in Liber Trigrammaton is good theoretically; but no Qabalah of merit has arisen therefrom. I am inclined to look further into the question of Sanskrit Roots, and into the Enochian Records, in order to put this matter in more polished shape"

 

It is plain to see that neither one of these comments supports using the received order of the English Alphabet. They both refer to finding a new way of obtaining an English gematria. So Crowley very clearly thought that he needed to 'obtain' - that is, get a hold of something you don't already have - a new order and value. To read that verse as some sort of 'clever' way of saying 'use the received order of English', is to ignore the plain meaning of the text.

according to Merriam-Webster, the definition of Obtain:

to gain or attain usually by planned action or effort (emphasis mine)

There is no 'effort' involved in using the received order of the letters, because by definition they are 'received' not obtained. Yes, it is certainly the 'simplest' - in the sense of the laziest - method one could use. But again, the method is not the solution.

 

Litlluw

O.L.


   
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wellreadwellbred
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[Alle text in bold, is text added by me to the original text:]

threefold31: "Then you double down on calling this "AC's solution" but I fail to see where he ever claimed that it was."

 

Anonymous: "... AL II:55 says "obtain", not create yourself. We have all "obtained" the English Alphabet in its present state; and "to obtain the order is to obtain the value," as I above have demonstrated. The "find new symbols" part I think is saying basically increasing our 777 correlative knoweldge, as how they are aligned with the Hewbrew, Greek, Sanskrit alphabets, etc."

( Source: Anonymus in the thread EG3 Cipher - - - https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/19913/)

According to the above quote from "Anonymous", and in line with AC's story about his The Book of the Law having been dictated to him by one Aiwass mentioned by him in that book, 395 could even be called Aiwass' solution.     

 

David Allen Hulse is the author of Genesis of The Book of The Law: The Complete Texts, Llewellyn's Truth About Numerology, New Dimensions for the Cube of Space: The Path of Initiation Revealed by the Tarot upon the Qabalistic Cube, and The Key of it All, a vast two volume synthesis of Eastern and Western magickal systems.

 

In Llewellyn's Truth About Numerology, Hulse states "... a Qabalah of great merit and beauty is hidden within the traditional correspondences of Numerology. If the serial order of the English alphabet is assigned as its number value, (without reducing their values to 1 through 9), then a number code of infinite nuance for English can be accomplished which blends easily with the ancient metaphors for the number series held in the orthodox Qabalahs of the world. Using this serial order code for English, the following Qabalistic solutions can be seen touching upon the Old Testament, the New Testament, and The Book of the Law."

Those solutions can be seen in the following link to this book on google books: (Source: David Allen Hulse's first e-book edition 2013, of Llewellyn's Truth About Numerology - - - https://books.google.no/books?id=AH2g8HNLoFYC&printsec=copyright&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false )

 

 

Also in volume two of his The Key of it All, hist vast synthesis of Western magickal systems, David Allen Hulse states this on the last page of the introduction:

"THE ENGLISH QABALAH

The Book of the Law gives this promise in the end of the 54th verse and the 55th[*] verse of the second chapter:

... the letters? change them not in style or value! Thou shalt obtain the order & value of the English Alphabet; thou shalt find new symbols to attribute them unto.

This task of finding a valid code for English is the next stage in the evolution of modern magick. Crowley, in researching this 55th verse, discovered two basic codes. The predominant method Crowley used all his life was to change English letters into Hebrew equivalents, such as numbering M.A.B.N. as Hebrew to get the value 93. Crowley, however, premised another code that ordered the English alphabet to begin with the letters I, L, and C as the values 1, 2 , and 3. This order is set forth in his Liber Trigrammaton. All of the relevent codes for English, including classical numerology, are given in the 13th and final chapter of this book. I am inclined to see the most workable Qabalah for English as the natural serial order of the English alphabet CA=1, Z=26), a code used as well in German Rosicrucian writings dating from the 17th century using the 26 letters of the German alphabet as a cipher.

Whatever numerical code is finally confirmed for English, let its values reinforce, continue and extend into new heights the traditon already firmly established by the magickal languages of the world, East and West. Let English be added to the pages of the secret Rosicrucian Number Dictionary, Liber Thesaurus, for establishing a workable Qabalah for the English alphabet is the next step in the evolution of the Westem Mysteries." 

 

( [*] That Crowley added the verse numbers to the original manuscript of his The Book of the Law, is covered in the thread "AC on BOTL verse numbers?", where one SatansAdvocaat states this:

"If one looks closely at the MS of Chapter I, there are indications that AC was making a conscious effort to make 66 verses out of it, to tally with the 79 of AL:II and the 75 of AL:III to give a total of 220; hence LIBER L vel LEGIS, sub figura CCXX. In the MS verses 12 and 13 form one continuous paragraph, while in verse 22 "Since I am Infinite Space, and the Infinite Stars thereof ..." is a new paragraph; also 57 "All these old letters of my Book are aright." a continuation of the same paragraph in the MS warrants a new paragraph in the text and might have justified a new verse number."

(Source: "AC on BOTL verse numbers?" - - - https://www.lashtal.com/forums/thelema/ac-on-botl-verse-numbers/ ) )


   
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wellreadwellbred
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Me : "... in line with AC's story about his The Book of the Law having been dictated to him by one "minister of Hoor-paar-kraat", mentioned by him in that book, 395 could even be called Aiwass' solution."

Also: "In the New Comment, Harpocrates, the "Babe in the Egg of Blue", is described as not only the God of Silence, but as the Higher Self, the Holy Guardian Angel." ( Source: Harpocrates From Thelemapedia - - - http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Harpocrates  

This implies that his The Book of the Law, came about by being communicated to him by his own inner "God of Silence".


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @threefold31

"AC's solution" but I fail to see where he ever claimed that it was.

No. No "sublime simplicity" from AC, about whom it was said "Thou knowest not" and you're never gonna knowit everVarious emphasises and misspellings are (c) me.

 


   
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the_real_simon_iff
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The best thing about this - in my eyes only - idiotic thread is that I have been pointed back to those kind of threads 15 years ago with many participants, pre-Cole, pre-Try-Key, open in every direction, mostly polite, very pleasurable (is that a word?), with people sadly lost by now. But there is nothing worse than "good ole times". A few of the participants are still here, and I would SO much like to comment after 15 years. Anyway, even the thread title is wrong, so: sorry, Wellread, this will not be discussed over 30 pages.


   
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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

That Crowley added the verse numbers to the original manuscript of his The Book of the Law, is covered in the thread "AC on BOTL verse numbers?", where one SatansAdvocaat states this:

"If one looks closely at the MS of Chapter I, there are indications that AC was making a conscious effort to make 66 verses out of it, to tally with the 79 of AL:II and the 75 of AL:III to give a total of 220; hence LIBER L vel LEGIS, sub figura CCXX. In the MS verses 12 and 13 form one continuous paragraph, while in verse 22 "Since I am Infinite Space, and the Infinite Stars thereof ..." is a new paragraph; also 57 "All these old letters of my Book are aright." a continuation of the same paragraph in the MS warrants a new paragraph in the text and might have justified a new verse number."

You are not clear what you are promoting here. SatansAdvocaat proposes that AC added the verse numbers ONLY to chapter 1, and with the goal to add all verses to a total of 220, while the verse numbers of 2+3 were dictated, as they are on the manuscript. But AC added ALL verse numbers AFTER the (alleged) dictation, they are in different colored pencil. So what are you trying to say here?

 


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

those kind of threads 15 years ago

The eternal mystery never grows old.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

AC added ALL verse numbers AFTER the (alleged) dictation

This is my understanding. The verse numbers, in themselves, are a form of (permitted) fiddling and not part of the original writ.

 


   
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hadgigegenraum
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@the_real_simon_iff 

Yes the APE configuration from a seven count is certainly as valid as they come, for APE is suggestive of the Ape of Thoth and thus by sevens!

 

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Me : "... in line with AC's story about his The Book of the Law having been dictated to him by one "minister of Hoor-paar-kraat", mentioned by him in that book, 395 could even be called Aiwass' solution."

Also: "In the New Comment, Harpocrates, the "Babe in the Egg of Blue", is described as not only the God of Silence, but as the Higher Self, the Holy Guardian Angel." ( Source: Harpocrates From Thelemapedia - - - http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Harpocrates  

This implies that his The Book of the Law, came about by being communicated to him by his own inner "God of Silence".

Yes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

This implies that his The Book of the Law, came about by being communicated to him by his own inner "God of Silence".

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

Yes

Yes

"Behold - it is revealed by Aiwass, the minister of Hoor-paar-kraat."

As we all well know, Hoor-paar-kraat is the God of Silence. He doesn't say anything as he has his finger stuck in his mouth ...

image

... so he sends his "minister," named Aiwass, who can speak, to deliver this message (in 3 parts) to Frater P. Apparently, Aiwass then sequentially assumes the persona for three deities, who pretty much speak for themselves.

The "inner God of Silence could be attributed to Binah ("Silence"), or it could go upstairs to the Ains. I'd go with the Ains, because Aiwass is attributed to Kether ... so he'd be the elusive, monadic authority speaking for somebody (Harpo) out in the void-land.

With Aiwass at Kether, and Perdurabo 5=6 sitting dead-center still in Tiphareth, City of the Sun, Heliopolis, al-Qāhirah, all that. Notice again how the Q gets discriminated against in Cairo.

This, of course, illuminates Atu II (Priestess) in our minds and in Perdurabo's 1904 soul and pen.

I see nothing wrong with all this except for the idea that P then spent the rest of his life swearing Aiwass was an independent praeter-being ... when he quietly, in only a few places, wrote out that it was all an inner deal - but that it was more convenient for one to posit these forces "out there" as external beings.

 


   
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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @shiva

I see nothing wrong with all this except for the idea that P then spent the rest of his life swearing Aiwass was an independent praeter-being ... when he quietly, in only a few places, wrote out that it was all an inner deal - but that it was more convenient for one to posit these forces "out there" as external beings.

Of course you are right, but we are dealing here with the Solver's Club, who by proxy claim a special treatment once II:76 is explained. Or at least expect it, or why would any sane person mention the exact minute of the the finding of "the solution" or the visit of Egyptian Adepts?


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

... claim a special treatment once II:76 is explained.

There is division from here on towards home. They shall have danger and trouble. Says so in the Scripture itself - I assume this applies to all Magi.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

why would any sane person mention the exact minute of the the finding of "the solution"

Some people deal with the Astro science. Astro demands exact timing and recording of said timing. That way, the synchronizing with the other dates and times can be proven (or not, in the case of failure).

Now look, I'm a 29* Virgo (Sun), so I can be just as anal (pardon me, I meant rectal) as can be when I'm in The Rectory, and I got an "A" in high-school Geometry (but avoided anything to do with it at college level), and I learned to do Astro with a hard-bound Ephemeris and a House of Tables ... so I know about exact notations, and I say that it's okay to cite very exact precise numbers dates times seconds ... without being accused of insanity - although my justification might qualify.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

or the visit of Egyptian Adepts?

My stery of mystery behind the Veil. The Adepts were not further dealt upon. I think there were requests (at least one) for elucidation, but they remain shadowy onlookers.


   
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threefold31
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

 Anyway, even the thread title is wrong, so: sorry, Wellread, this will not be discussed over 30 pages....

 

AC added ALL verse numbers AFTER the (alleged) dictation, they are in different colored pencil.

Dwtw

Yes, please let's stop it before it gets to page 2 😉

 

I replied to the other comment in the older thread, so as not to extend this one any further.

Litlluw

O.L.


   
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wellreadwellbred
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the_real_simon_iff: " You are not clear what you are promoting here. "

Pointing out that the verse numbers were not dictated to AC.

 

 Shiva: "This thread's about AL and 395. I will now perform the Kabalerian [sick] reduction and we'll see what the basic nature of this number is ...

3+9+5 = 17  Aha! This is good enough for the 0 to 21 Atu QBL, but it's too big for the big "K." So we reduce it again: 1+7=8. This is a good number. One of the best. Prosperity. Uh-oh! Opportunities for dark dealings exist, but the true hero will just take it in stride."

 

A=1 B=2 C=3 D=4 E=5 F=6 G=7 H=8 I=9 J=10 K=11 L=12 M=13 N=14 O=15 P=16 Q=17 R=18 S=19 T=20 U=21 V=22 W=23 X=24 Y=25 Z=26[:]

English gematria for Achad (with A=1 to Z=26)]: A=1 + C=3 + H=8 + A=1 + D=4 = 17

Gematria for Achad in Hebrew: 1 Aleph + 3 Gimel + 8 Het + 1 Aleph + 4 Daleth = 17

The Hebrew Alphabet in Numerology
1 Aleph א
2 Bet ב
3 Gimel ג
4 Daleth ד
5 Heh ה
6 Vav ו
7 Zayin ז
8 Het ח
9 Tet ט
10 Yud י
20 Kaf כ
30 Lamed ל
40 Mem מ
50 Nun נ
60 Samech ס
70 Ayin ע
80 Peh פ
90 Tzady צ
100 Koof ק
200 Reish ר
300 Shin ש
400 Taf ת
500 Kaf (final) ך
600 Mem (final) ם
700 Nun (final) ן
800 Peh (final) ף
900 Tzady (final) ץ

 

Were there any gematria, numerology or Kabbalah calculations behind AC's use of the numbers 17 and 8, in his listing of the tables, columns and explanations within his 777 Revised, as demonstrated below? (Trigger warning to Shiva, the "dangerous" word duplex is used by AC below:)

 

777 Revised, by AC:

"... [Page 2:] TABLE I [...] I.KeyScale. 17 [...] II* Hebrew Names of Numbers and Letters. [...] Zain [...] III. English of Col. II. [...] Sword

[Page3:] TABLE I (continued) 17 [...] VII. English of Col. VI. [...] Gemini [...]

[Page 4:] TABLE I (continued) 17 [...] IX. The Sword and the Serpent [...] The Serpent of Wisdom follows the course of the paths or letters upwards, its head being thus in Aleph, its tails in Tau. Aleph, Mem, and Shin, are the Mother letters, referring to the Elements; Beth, Gimel, Daleth, Kaph, Pe, Resh, and Tau, the Double letters, to the Planets; the rest, Single letters, to the Zodiac. [...]

[Page 5:] TABLE I (continued) 17 [...] XIII. The Paths of the Sepher Yetzirah. [...] Disposing One [...] XIV. General Attribution of Tarot. [...] The Lovers [...] XV.* The King Scale of Colour [...]. [...] Orange [...]

[Page 7:] TABLE I (continued) [...] 17 [...] XIX.* Selection of Egyptian Gods. [...] Various twin Deities, Rekht, Merti, &c. [[Heru-Ra-Ha]] [...] XX. Complete Practical Attribution of Egyptian Gods. [...] The twin Merti [...]

[Page 8:] TABLE I (continued) [...] 17 [...] XXII. Small selection of Hindu Deities. [...] Warious twin and hybrid Deities [...] XXIII.* The Forty Buddhist Meditations. [...] White K  [...]

[Page 9:] TABLE I (continued) [...] 17 [...] XXXIV. Some Greek Gods. [...] Castor and Pollux, Apollo the Diviner [[Eros]]  [...]

[Page 10:] TABLE I (continued) [...] 17 [...] XXXV. Some Roman Gods. [...] Castor and Pollux, [Janus] [[Hymen]] [...]

[Page 11:] TABLE I (continued) [...] 17 [...] XXXVIII.* Animals, Real and Imaginary [...] 7 Magpie, hybrids [[Parrot, Zebra, Penguin]] [...] XXXIX.* Plants, Real and Imaginary. [...] Hybrids, Orchids [...]

[Page 12:] TABLE I (continued) [...] 17 [...] XL.* Precious Stones. [...] Alexandrite, Tourmaline, Iceland Spar [...] XLI. Magical Weapons. [...] The Tripod  [...]

[Page 13:] TABLE I (continued) [...] XLII.*Perfumes [...] 17 Wormwood XLIII.* [...] Vegetable Drugs Ergot and ecbolics

[Page 15:] TABLE I (continued) [...] 17 [...] XLVII. Kings and Princes of the Jinn. at [...] XLVIII. Figures related to Pure Number. [...] Swastika XLIX.* Lineal Figures of the Planets, &c., and Geomany. [...] Albus *  [...]

[Page 26:] TABLE V [...] 17 CXXXVII. Signs of the Zodiac. [Gemini.] [...]

[Page 34:] TABLE VI
[...] CLXXX. Title of Tarot Trumps. CLXXXI. Correct Design of Tarot Trumps. [...] 17 The Children of the Voice: the Oracle of the Mighty Gods. A prophet, young, and in the Sign of Osiris Risen * [...]

[Page 61:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...]
"... Chokmah is the Logos, the messenger, the transmitter of the influence of Kether, and this is shown, in a lower mode, in the Sephira Hod." [...] He is in [...] the 17th [path] as [...] the Oracle of the Mighty Gods [...].* [...] * [These are Golden Dawn titles of the Tarot Trumps popularly known as the Hierophant, the Lovers and the Hermit respectively. See Col. CLXXX. — T.S.] [...]

[Page 84:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] THE ZODIAC [...] 17. Gemini is perfected by active thoughts, aimed and tinged by spiritual intention.

[Page 89:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] THE ZODIAC [...] 17. Twin deities as pertaining to Gemini. Heru-Ra-Ha as containing the twin Horus Deities. [...]

[Page 91:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] THE ZODIAC [...] THE ZODIAC [...] 17. Castor and Pollux as Twins. Apollo was the inspirer of Oracles. Eros might be added if the topmost figure in ATU VI really represents him. [...]

[Page 93:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] THE ZODIAC [...] THE ZODIAC [...] 17. Twin Gods. Hymen as relating to ATU VI. [...]

[Page 98:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] THE ZODIAC [...] THE ZODIAC [...] 17. All animals of dual nature in any respect pertain partly to Gemini. The Magpie is especially sacred to this sign because of its piebald plumage and its power of speech. The Parrot is given here for similar reasons. The Zebra is here on account of its stripes. All hybrids pertain to Gemini, both on account of their dual nature and because they are sterile like Mercury. The Penguin is here as superficially imitating man. [...]

[Page 105:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] THE ZODIAC [...] 17. Hybrids are here for the same reason as in the previous column. Orchids might perhaps better be attributed to Yesod or Capricorn for obvious reasons; they are found here on account of their duplex characteristics. [...]

[Page 105:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] THE ZODIAC [...] 17. The Tripod would appear at first sight to be Lunar; but this is wrong. The real connection is with ATU VI, the "Oracle of the Mighty Gods." [...]

[Page 113:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] THE ZODIAC [...] 17. Wormwood probably pertains to Gemini on account of the intellectual stimulation which it affords in such a magical preparation as Absinthe. [...]

[Page 132:] THE MEANING OF THE PRIMES FROM 11 TO 97 [...] 17. The masculine unity. (Trinity of Aleph, Vau, Yod.) [...]

[Page 8:] TABLE I (continued)[...] 8 [...] XXXV. Some Roman Gods. [...] Mercury [...] XXXVI. Selection of Christian Gods (10); Apostles (12); Evangelists (4) and Churches of Asia (7). [...] God the Holy Ghost (as Comforter and Inspirer of Scripture), God the Healer of Plagues [...]

[Page 16:] TABLE I (continued)[...] 8 [...] L.* Transcendental Morality. [10 Virtues (1-10), 7 Sins (Planets), 4 Magick Powers (Elements).] [...] Truthfulness [...] Numeration of Col. LI. [...] 90 [...]

[Page 21:] TABLE IV [...] 8 [...] LXXXVI. Choirs of Angels in Briah. [...] Beni Elohim [...]

[Page 69:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] The transliteration and meaning of the Hebrew names of the Orders of Qliphoth are as follows: [...]. SAMAEL. The False Accuser. [...]

[Page 91:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] COLUMN XXXIV: SOME GREEK GODS [...] 8. Hermes, Mercurial. [...]

[Page 92:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] COLUMN XXXV: SOME ROMAN GODS [...] . Mercury, God of Thought (Chit). [...]

[Page 95:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] COLUMN XXXVIII: ANIMALS, REAL AND IMAGINARY [...] . 8. Hermaphrodite, as representing the dual nature of Mercury. Jackal, sacred to Anubis. Twin serpents. These represent the Mercurial double current as on the Caduceus. See the interpretation given in the Paris Working. [...]

[Page 102:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] COLUMN XXXIX: THE PLANTS [...] . 8. Moly is mentioned in Homer as having been given by Hermes to Ulysses to counteract the spells of Circe. It has a black root and white blossom, which again suggests the dual currents of energy. Anhalonium Lewinii* has for one of its principal characteristics the power to produce very varied and brilliant colour visions. [...] * [Now Lophophora williamsi; the peyote cactus.] [...]

[Page 107:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] COLUMN XL: PRECIOUS STONES [...] 8. The Opal has the varied colours attributed to Mercury. [...]

[Page 110:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] COLUMN XLI: MAGICAL WEAPONS [...] 8. The Names and Versicles are Mercurial. They expand the Logos, explain it in three-dimensional (that is, material) terms, just as the number 8 is a three-dimensional expansion of the number 2. The Apron conceals the Splendour (Hod) of the magician. It also explains that splendour by virtue of its symbolic design. [...]

[Page 116:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] COLUMN XLII: PERFUMES [...] 8. Storax is chiefly Mercurial on account of its nondescript nature. It is really less valuable as a perfume itself than as a menstruum for other perfumes, in the same was as Mercury is the basis of amalgams. But Storax is really to dark and heavy to bew a really adequate perfume for Hod. [...]

[Page 123:] EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTIONS [...] COLUMN XLIII: VEGETABLE DRUGS [...] 7-8. Cannabis Indica and Anhalonium Lewinii appear to act on both these Sephiroth. Their action is very similar. They produce in one mood voluptuous visions which pertain to Venus, and in another confer the power of self-analysis, which is Mercurial. [...] "

 


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @threefold31

... so as not to extend this one any further.

Aha!  Purposeful, self-confessed conspirationalist - conspiring with iff to end this thread ... without resolution or liberation, or even temporary euphoria.

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Were there any gematria, numerology or Kabbalah calculations behind AC's use of the numbers 17 and 8

Oh, well, forget the termination conspiracy. The post quoted is very long, not sublime or simple, and it refers to 17 and 8, which is not 395.

So, let the numbers roll on ... roll onnnn ...

 


   
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herupakraath
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Posted by: @ignant666

And of course, besides you, no one on earth would identify 143 or 219 as "recognizable within patterns seen in the Book of the Law". So your work fails the test you yourself have set for validity.

A few excerpts from Lashtal threads, none of which originate with me, prove you wrong once again:

"Total value of the Cipher is: 143"

"Both sets are multiples of 11: the numbers = 143"

"Along with the numbers that sum to 143"

"these two products (1872) is used to multiply the sum of the numbers (143)"

"143 * {(ABK * RPSTOVAL) - (ALGMOR * YX)} = The Global Sum of Liber CCXX"

"208 * 143 * 9 = 267,696 = Liber CCXX in total"

"Their total is 143 = The Book of the Law"

 

 


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @herupakraath

Their total is 143

This 143 gets around, all right. The question is Of what particular practical import is this number? Does it solve any mysteries?

 


   
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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @herupakraath

A few excerpts from Lashtal threads, none of which originate with me, prove you wrong once again:

"Total value of the Cipher is: 143"

"Both sets are multiples of 11: the numbers = 143"

"Along with the numbers that sum to 143"

"these two products (1872) is used to multiply the sum of the numbers (143)"

"143 * {(ABK * RPSTOVAL) - (ALGMOR * YX)} = The Global Sum of Liber CCXX"

"208 * 143 * 9 = 267,696 = Liber CCXX in total"

"Their total is 143 = The Book of the Law"

But apart from the first quote (sure it's not you?) all refer to the sum of the numbers only, which isn't only logical, but also part of WRWB's "solution". But the Cipher also has letters.


   
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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @shiva

This 143 gets around, all right. The question is Of what particular practical import is this number? Does it solve any mysteries?

Maybe not really mystery solving, but it adds to "Plain Megalomania" and "Add nine Numbers" in the "A=1, Z=26 Qabalah" of WRWB. And of course it was reached by adding nine numbers, and maybe plain megalomania. And of course it adds to "the Covid-19 Virus" with Tri-Key Qabalah.


   
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