prov[ing] you wrong once again
The thing is, i am not The One Who Comes After. You say you are. I am not the one making huge claims about myself.
It's OK for me to be wrong, because i am just some guy, but surely you must always be right, because, after all, you claim to be The One Who Comes After
I am not the one who publishes long manuscripts about my own importance, some of which i will bet $1 US currency have odds-based claims about the validity of your methods that depend on your former (now corrected) belief that
The number of different gematria systems that can be created using the values 1-26 and the English alphabet is figured as 26^26.
Though, when i called bullshit, you did said this calculation was "rhetorical", and give the correct method.
Your citation-free claims re 143 being "recognizable within patterns seen in the Book of the Law" are noted, as is your failure to provide any such parallel claims re 219. I wonder why that might might be?
Can you please now also provide the three or four most important citations to the work of Aleister Crowley wherein he says that both 143 and 219 are "recognizable within patterns seen in the Book of the Law"?
nine numbers, and maybe plain megalomania.
I see. But none of the items in your potential List of Practical Applications has any practical, practical application. I'll keep looking.
"As I just showed you, and Mudd, and Jones before, the numbers 143, 219 or 395 do not have any meaning in the Thelemic canon, besides their obvious minor qabalistic significances." Aleister Crowley to Lady Ann McKenzey in June, 1927.
143, 219 or 395
Three strikes and you're Out ... at the old QBL Game.
"As I just showed you, and Mudd, and Jones before, the numbers 143, 219 or 395 do not have any meaning in the Thelemic canon, besides their obvious minor qabalistic significances." Aleister Crowley to Lady Ann McKenzey in June, 1927.
I stand corrected.
But notice this:
AC in 1919 stating this in a message to Charles Stansfeld Jones aka Frater Achad:
"\ = 418. "Thou knowest not." Your key opens Palace. CCXX has unfolded like a flower. All solved, even II.76 & III.47. Did you know Π = 3.141593? And oh! lots more!""
And AC towards the end of his life (1943 or later) stating this:
“The Book of the Law itself insists upon the fact that it contains a Qabalah which was beyond me at the time of its dictation, is beyond me now, and always will be beyond me in this incarnation. Let me direct your spiritual attention at AL, I: 54; I: 56; II: 54-55; II: 76; III: 47.”
Source: Aleister Crowley's Magick without Tears, 1989, The Qabalah The Best training for Memory, page 49."
That is, AC in 1919, to Charles Stansfeld Jones stating that his The Book of the Law's verses II.76 & III.47, are solved, and much later stating that this book contains a "Qabalah" that "... always will be beyond me in this incarnation.", indicates that this "Qabalah" is not required for finding the mentioned solutions to verses verses II.76 & III.47.
Also, will anyone provide the just mentioned Charles Stansfeld Jones' solution to the cipher AC's The Book of the Law's verse II.76?
This solution is included in the book The Incoming of the Aeon of Maat: Correspondence between Charles Stansfeld Jones, Gerald Yorke, and others, 1948-49. (Edited by Michael Barham and Michael Staley, and published by Starfire Publishing Limited, 2020.)
I stand corrected.
Sorry, WRWB, but my "Would have been too nice, wouldn't it?" was meant the other way round. It would have been too nice if such a letter from AC existed. Of course it doesn't exist, just like there is no known endorsing of these numbers by AC. It's - as with every qabalah - all in our minds. Also Achad was for a very short period AC's star pupil and even son and cypher solver, but he later lost all these tiles. Keep on going!
Dear Iff...
I had heard that Lady Mckenzey's copy of Magick in Theory and Practice had been found in a trunk a few decades ago with rumor that certain numerological frenzy had marked the pages...Apparently AC had Ann, but not the way she might have wanted; the issue was to have her work upon a particular discipline of her training to cure her of the Qabalistic quicksand that the Beast realized might well drown another aspirant...Yes he had seen it before...and knew the cure was: ASAR UN NEFER! IA BESZ! IA APOPHRASZ!
Thus it is said that her copy of Magick is particularly interesting as the marginalia around Liber Samekh reflected certain subtitles as it is apparent that the incantations were having an effect, of transforming the mania of her counting obsessions; of the kindergartener discovering the alphabet as an ego facade rather than to let the id revel in goo goo gaa gaa genius...
it said that she lived to a ripe nineties, with rumors about strange sounds coming from her place over the decades, and it was said that there was something about her in later years that was in explicable, and yes there had a penchant for importing cacti from Mexico where it is said she had travelled, and had been apparently bit once again, after AC had died, with a bout of letter manipulation frenzy concerning Inca codexes....but that is another story...
Now how 395 got into the Equinox of the Gods is anyone's imagination, but it is said that Crowley's system is littered with traps... yes little shiny things that might catch one's attention, which is not to say that anyone is mad around here, for I remember thinking what is 395 doing there?....and 17 could well take us to eight....
Does eight = 8
Time to eat!
That is, AC in 1919, to Charles Stansfeld Jones stating that his The Book of the Law's verses II.76 & III.47, are solved, and much later stating that this book contains a "Qabalah" that "... always will be beyond me
Yes, this is another example of Cancel QBL. That is, when two sources especially from the same person), say opposite things, then neither is true and we can move on to grander viatas.
It's - as with every qabalah - all in our minds.
Yeah. It's a real rush when some number pings the cosmic registry. We say, "Holy Bovine, I've discovered a key!" But it turns out (as we were told) that all nos are infinite, and there ain't no difference.
OBL is presented as a structure for ordering the mind. It has nothing to do with the supra-abyssmal, supra-rationale, , or supra=personal realms where names, numbers, and mental scaffolds are not - so don't try to figure it out or you'll become crazy.
he later lost all these tiles. [titles?]
The Tyler lost his tiles
to become full of smiles
The titles were lost by Titler
and he became a bit lighter
Does eight = 8
Time to eat!
Yes. 8.
"I ate."
"Numbers in Hebrew[:]
Classical Hebrew has no numerals. The letters of the alphabet are used to express numbers and to index lists of items. For indexing there are two possible systems, the alphabetical system and the numerical system. To express numbers, only the numerical system is relevant. Both systems are written from right to left, like other Hebrew text."
( Source: The Hebrew Numbering System - - - https://smontagu.org/writings/HebrewNumbers.html )
"ץTzade(Tz) [...] The system of numerals in Hebrew forms a quasi-decimal alphabetic numeral system using the letters of the Hebrew alphabet. In Hebrew notation, there is no notation for zero, and the numeric values for individual letters are added together.
Each unit (1, 2, ..., 9) is assigned a separate letter, each tens (10, 20, ..., 90) a separate letter, and the hundreds 100, 200, 300, 400 a separate letter. This double meaning of letters gave rise to the gematria 1 in which these transformations are extensively used [...]. [...] צTzade 90 [...]
The Abjad numerals are equivalent to the Hebrew numerals up to 400. The Greek numerals differ from the Hebrew ones from 90 upwards because the Greek alphabet does not have an equivalent for Tzade."
( Source: - - - Hebrew numerals - - - https://www.cs.cas.cz/portal/AlgoMath/NumberTheory/Arithmetics/NumeralSystems/NonPositionalNumeralSystems/HebrewNumerals.htm
Aleister Crowley in chapter 7, in The Equinox of the Gods, his book first published in 1936, detailing events and circumstances with respect to the central text of his Thelema, his The Book of the Law. In line with verse 39 in the last chapter of it, concerning him writing a book about this core text of his Thelema:
"If I prefix our Key, 31, putting [sun, moon], Set or Satan, before the old Gods, I get 3.141593, [pi] correct to Six places, Six being my own number and that of Horus the Sun. And the whole number of this new Name is 395, which on analysis yields and astounding cluster of numerical “mysteries.”"
hadgigegenraum: "Now how 395 got into the Equinox of the Gods is anyone's imagination, but it is said that Crowley's system is littered with traps... yes little shiny things that might catch one's attention, which is not to say that anyone is mad around here, for I remember thinking what is 395 doing there? ....and 17 could well take us to eight.... Does eight = 8".
Shiva: "3+9+5 = 17 Aha! This is good enough for the 0 to 21 Atu QBL, but it's too big for the big "K." So we reduce it again: 1+7=8[*]. This is a good number.
One of the best. Prosperity. Uh-oh! Opportunities for dark dealings exist, but the true hero will just take it in stride."
[*] A "... useful system is the reduction of the standard/ordinal value to one digit by cross-addition, known as the reduced value."
(Source: Gematria In A Nutshell - - - www.thesecretcode.co.uk/page_2437272.html )
In the above quote from chapter 7 in his book The Equinox of the Gods, Crowley states that 395 as "the whole number of this new Name is 395, which on analysis yields and astounding cluster of numerical “mysteries.”"
As examples of such "astounding numerical mysteries"", can be mentioned the following:
That the number 395 in "Qabalah" is "the soul associated with Binah", and is "... sometimes used for all three of the Higher Souls associated with Keter, Chokmah, and Binah."
(Source: Hebrew Gematria: Values from 390 - 399 by Bill Heidrick Copyright © by Bill Heidrick - - - http://www.billheidrick.com/works/hgm3/hg0390.htm#395 )
The Hebrew word for eight is שמנה, which in Jewish Gematria equals: 395:
"ש
300
מ
40
נ
50
ה
5" (Source for calculation: https://www.gematrix.org/ )
"In kabbalistic teachings, the number seven symbolizes perfection – perfection that is achievable via natural means – while eight symbolizes that which is beyond nature and its (inherently limited) perfection. [...]
Eight, [...] is symbolic of an entity that is one step above the natural order, higher than nature and its limitations."
(Source: What is the Spiritual Significance of the Number Eight? By Eliezer Posner - - - What is the Spiritual Significance of the Number Eight? - Questions & Answers (chabad.org) )
"... Eight is the number of completion."
( Source: MAGIC & THE SUPERNATURAL[.] Judaism and Numbers The Jewish numerology tradition, known as gematria, values some numbers more than others. BY RABBI GEOFFREY DENNIS - - - Judaism and Numbers | My Jewish Learning )
In gematria — a feature of the Jewish form of mysticism called Kabbalah — the number 8 signifies that which is beyond perfection: that which is on a higher plane than the world in which we live:
"shemoneh or shemonah: a cardinal number, eight, eighth
Original Word: שְׁמֹנֶה
Tag: eight
Or shmowneh {shem-o-neh'}; feminine shmonah {shem-o-naw'}; or shmownah {shem-o-naw'}; apparently from shamen through the idea of plumpness; a cardinal
number, eight (as if a surplus above the "perfect" seven); also (as ordinal) eighth -- eight((-een, -eenth)), eighth."
( Source: "8083. shemoneh or shemonah [...] Strong's Concordance shemoneh or shemonah: eight (a cardinal number) Original Word: שְׁמֹנֶה Part of Speech: Noun Transliteration: shemoneh or shemonah Phonetic Spelling: (shem-o-neh') Definition: eight (a cardinal number)" - - - https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8083.htm )
"strongs id H8083 [...] description + "... a cardinal number, eight (as if a surplus above the 'perfect' seven); also (as ordinal) eighth; eight(-een, -eenth), eighth." ( Source: - - - https://ilmlc.sourceforge.io/projects/books/multilinear_strongs/multilinear_strongs_details.php?id=7872)
"H8083 שׁמונה שׁמנה שׁמונה שׁמנה שְׁמוֹנֶה שְׁמוֹנֶה שְׁמוֹנָה שְׁמוֹנָה shemôneh shemôneh shemônâh shemônâh (1,2) shem-o-neh‘, (3,4) shem-o-naw‘ Apparently from 8082 through the idea of plumpness; a cardinal number, eight (as if a surplus above the “perfect” seven); also (as ordinal) eighth: - eight ([-een, -eenth]), eighth."
(Source: STRONG CONCORDANCE [!] - - - https://levigilant.com/Polyglot%20Bible/h8083.htm )
( [!] The first edition of Strong Concordance, the most complete, easy-to-use, and understandable concordance for studying the original languages of the Bible, was published in 1890, and would have been easily available to Aleister Crowley who lived from 1875 to 1947. )
Aleister Crowley does in Chapter XXXV: The Tao (2), in Magick Without Tears[*] state that the "Hebrew Qabalah" was his "continual study since 1898".
( Source: Chapter XXXV: The Tao (2), in Magick Without Tears - - - https://hermetic.com/crowley/magick-without-tears/mwt_35 )
Crowley's The Book of the Law, also references to the supernal triad of the kabbalistic Tree of life, to be found in the terms "the threefold book of Law" and "Three Grades".
He did also in 1902 write his essay בראשית Berashit, An Essay In Ontology [Ontology = the branch of philosophy that studies concepts such as existence, being, becoming, and reality]. In which he (page 1:) presents a "theory of the Universe", and (page 2:) claims to have "re-discovered the long-lost and central Arcanum (or secret) of the Qabalists", with respect to how they explain the "First Cause" of the Universe, a "First Cause" which AC describes as "... Not, and nothing else."
He end his essay Berashit, with a postive mention of "... the validity of the Qabalistic tradition in its practical part, ...":
"Of course, there are bad and invalid processes, which tend rather to disperse or to excite the mind-stuff rather than to control it; these we must discard. But there is a true magical ceremonial, the central Arcanum alike of Eastern and Western practical transcendentalism. Needless to observe, if I knew it, I should not disclose it. I therefore affirm the validity of the Qabalistic tradition in its practical part as well as in those exalted regions of thought through which we have to recently, and so hardly, travelled.3 [...]
[[Endnote:] 3:] A possible mystic transfiguration of the Vedanta system
has been suggested to me on the lines of the Syllogism—
God = Being (Patanjali).
Being = Nothing (Hegel).
God = Nothing (Buddhism).
Or, in the language of religion:
Every one may admit that monotheism, exalted by the
introduction of the ¥ symbol, is equivalent to pantheism.
Pantheism and atheism are really identical, as the opponents
of both are the first to admit.
If this be really taught, I must tender my apologies, for
the reconcilement is of course complete.—A.C."
(Source: Berashit An essay on ontology with some remarks on ceremonial magic - - - www.astrumargenteum.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Aleister-Crowley-Berashith.pdf )
Also, Crowley in line with his continual study of the Hebrew Qabalah since 1898, in 1905 used his "Final meeting with Allan Bennett in Rangoon, Burma, for 3 days." (Source: - - - Portal:Aleister Crowley Timeline/On this Day/November/November 3 - Encyclopedia Thelemica (lashtal.com) ), Ananda Metteya, formerly known as Allan Bennett, for discussing "... the need for a common language if magic were ever to be studied scientifically, concluding that the system most accessible to Westerners was the kabbalah."
(Source: Page 153, in Perdurabo, Revised and Expanded Edition: The Life of Aleister Crowley, 2010, by Richard Kaczynski.)
With respect to his aspirations, Aleister Crowley already in 1905 asked for help to "... found a new world religion."
(Source: Page 134, in the Revised and Expanded Edition 2010, of Richard Kaczynski's Perdurabo: The Life of Aleister Crowley.)
And also with respect to his aspirations, Aleister Crowley provides these statements in his, The Confessions of Aleister Crowley: An Autohagiography:
"I loved mankind; I wanted everybody to be an enthusiastic aspirant to the absolute. [...]
It is possible to base a religion, not on theory and results, but on practice and methods. It is honest and hopeful to progress on admitted principles towards the development of each individual mind, and thus to advance towards the absolute by means of the consciously willed evolution of the faculty of apprehension. Such is in fact the idea underlying initiation. It constitutes the absolute justification of the Path of the Wise as indicated by the adepts, whether of the magical or mystical schools. For Yoga offers humanity an organ of intelligence superior to intellect, yet co-ordinate with it, and Magick serves to arose spiritual energies which while confirming those of the mind, bring them to their culmination."
Me: "Not so much finding AC's own solution, as just noticing him expounding up on it within The Equinox of the Gods."
Shiva: "Oh? That's different. A mere misunderstanding based upon a BOLD STATEMENT that was merely partial and not all-encompassing so that it would lead to Liberation for all readers, posters, and pretenders."
Shiva: "The question is Of what particular practical import is this number? Does it solve any mysteries?"
Shiva: "... OBL is presented as a structure for ordering the mind. It has nothing to do with the supra-abyssmal, supra-rationale, , or supra=personal realms where names, numbers, and mental scaffolds are not - so don't try to figure it out or you'll become crazy."
Using the "laziest" method possible, by simple addition based on the 'simplest' gematria from A=1 to Z=26, leads to 395 as the numeric value of the II,76 Cipher in The Book of the Law, by Aleister Crowley. The latter does in his The Equinox of the Gods, state that 395 is "the whole number of this new Name is 395, which on analysis yields and astounding cluster of numerical “mysteries.”"
As already pointed out by me in this posting, that the Hebrew word for eight שמנה equals 395 according to the Jewish form of mysticism called Kabbalah, is among the numerical " “mysteries” ", mentioned by Aleister Crolwley in his book The Equinox of the Gods, with respect to the number 395.
My point is that Aleister Crowley in his The Equinox of The Gods, by mention of "the whole number of this new Name is 395, which on analysis yields and astounding cluster of numerical “mysteries.”", is hinting at that the II,76 Cipher of his The Book of the Law, and its solution, is an ironic reminder and emphasis of the practical and liberating point of what he called Qabalah, which he already implies when he "... affirm the validity of the Qabalistic tradition in its practical part ...", at the end of his 1902 essay בראשית Berashit:
And that practical and liberating point is to control the mind-stuff, and transcend and overcome and bring to the culmination the energies of the mind.
the_real_simon_iff: [The number 395] "It's - as with every qabalah - all in our minds."
Yes, but the practical and liberating point of what AC called Qabalah, is to control the mind-stuff, and transcend and overcome and bring to the culmination the energies of the mind.
the_real_simon_iff: [The number 395 is] "... WRWB's "solution"".
No, with all the data, covering larger context and background, provied by me in this tread, I have tried to uncover the author's intended meaning with the II,76 Cipher in Crowley's The Book of the Law. Whether that author is understood as Aleister Crowley himself directly, or more indirectly as his own inner "God of Silence", described by Crowley as having communicated his The Book of the Law to him, through one "Aiwass" mentioned in that book.
So, the "astounding cluster of numerical mysteries" of 395 is - Eight? The number of completion? That's not my definition of cluster. Ah, yes, it also *sometimes* associates the Higher Souls with ...
Another word containing "cluster" comes to mind.
with all the data, covering larger context and background, provied by me in this tread, I have tried to uncover the author's intended meaning with the II,76 Cipher in Crowley's The Book of the Law.
I do not think you did that, it feels like you simply sampled some stuff by AC that show he hold the Qabalah in high regard. The intended meaning of the Cipher then is "Do more Qabalah"?
You also missed the "It will be marked with the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction" prerequisite.
So, the "astounding cluster of numerical mysteries" of 395 is - Eight? The number of completion?
Yes 395 = 8, but it has nothing to do with "completion."
There is still one more single digit left, the dreaded nine. Things are "completed" in the house of 9.
the Cipher then is "Do more Qabalah"?
Do what thou Qabalist shall be the whole of the Cipher?
It will be marked with the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction
Oh, don't be hard on him. Everybody misses that one.
Everybody misses that one.
And misses that they have missed it, or misunderstands what might be meany by "sublime simplicity, and [...] immediate conviction."
The latter especially: if you publish your solution, and more than a couple folks cry "Bushwa!", you have probably not engendered "immediate conviction", however sublimely simple you may imagine your convoluted gymnastics of QBL to be.
And to explain Qabalist speak:
"If someone mentions *astounding* clusters of correspondences or mysteries, but isn't able to instantly name at least five or six of these correspondences or mysteries at once (five or six should be easily at hand from whole "clusters" - plural!), then the number in question is probably not so important but just "so lala", or "not un-nice."
So, WRWB, hunt down these clusters of numerical mysteries and then let's talk it over.
the_real_simon_iff: "... WRWB, hunt down these clusters of numerical mysteries and then let's talk it over."
No, the_real_simon_iff, Crowley does not mention plural clusters in the original text in his book The Equinox of the Gods. There Crowley mentions " ... an astounding cluster of numerical [quotation mark is used by Crowley on the word mysteries in the original text:] “mysteries.” ", that is, he mentions one cluster of numerical “mysteries.” And, yes, there is indeed /a/ cluster of numerical so-called "mysteries" pertaining to the number 395 – for example involving AC's favorite book in the Christian Bible, The Book of Revelation – but why should I care to provide you with more about these so-called "mysteries", as I at the end of the first posting in this thread have already explained how AC according to his own Thelema, and his core text for it, The Book of the Law, himself was the one to follow him, but newborn?
By the way, my personal solution to the II:76. Cipher, presented on this site, required fiddling with verse number, and is described by me on the first page of 30 pages long thread titled "Various II:76 Cipher solutions...." ( Source: "Various II:76 Cipher solutions..." - - - https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/86192/ )
the_real_simon_iff: "The intended meaning of the [II:76.] Cipher then is "Do more Qabalah"?"
The main point of what AC calls Qabalah in his Thelema, is to provide "... power to analyze, to order, to manipulate your thinking!" (Source: Aleister
Crowley in Magick Without Tears Letter #4:)
It is as pointed out above by Shiva on this second page of this thread, "... presented as a structure for ordering the mind."
In Magick Without Tears Letter #4, Crowley does also state that "You must construct your own Qabalah! Nobody can do it for you. What is your own true Number? You must find it and prove it to be correct. In the course of a few years, you should have built yourself a Palace of Ineffable Glory, a Garden of Indescribable Delight."
But the irony is that the II,76 Cipher and its texual context in AC's The Book of the Law, the core text of his Thelema, for some of its readers can become a distraction from what AC presents as the main point of what he calls Qabalah in his Thelema, that is, for you the reader to develop your own Qabalah that is uniquely yours.
the_real_simon_iff: "You [...] missed the "It will be marked with the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction" prerequisite."
On the first page of this thread, in a posting posted by me at "06/10/2022 1:03 pm" (source: https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/123808/ ), I document that Aleister Crowley changed his mind concerning that "prerequisite", by quoting what he added later to his New Comment to his The Book of the Law, after first writing that the solution "... will be marked with the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction.":
" ... (The above paragraph was written previous to the communication of Charles Stansfeld Jones with regard to the 'numbers and the words' which constitute the Key to the cipher of this Book. See the Appendix to these comment. I prefer to leave my remark as it originally stood, in order to mark my attitude at the time of writing)."
( Source: "The Second Chapter[.] The New Comment to Liber AL" - - - The Second Chapter - The New and Old Commentaries to Liber AL vel Legis, The Book of the Law - Liber Legis — The Book of the Law - Hermetic Library )
Crowley regarded every anniversary of his initiation into the Golden Dawn as his spiritual birthday, and observed November 18 as his magical birthday, as documented by his last telegram he sent to his in 1942 appointed successor, Karl Germer (1885 – 1962), sent on 18th November 1947:
"GERMER:
PERDURABO BORN 49 YEARS AGO. THERION SENDS DEEPEST LOVE HIGHEST BLESSING YOURSELVES AND THELEMITES, THE UNIVERSE."
(Source: Page 548, in Perdurabo, Revised and Expanded Edition: The Life of Aleister Crowley, 2010, by Richard Kaczynski.)
I have already earlier in this thread quoted from Chapter 35: The Tao (2), in his book Magick Without Tears, where Crowley states that the "Hebrew Qabalah" was his "continual study since 1898". But please notice this that Crowley states in the same chapter:
"I bound myself to devote my life to Magick at Easter 1898 (era vulgari) and received my first initiation on November 18 of that year."
That is, the "Hebrew Qabalah" was Aleister Crowley's "... continual study since ..." what he regarded as his spiritual birthday.
And to repeat a quote already used by me above:
"Samson Raphael Hirsch suggests that eight is a number indicating that “the condition of the previous period is entirely closed, and with the eight, a new beginning is made.”"
Compare preceding quote with Aleister Crowley's claim that the core text of his Thelema, his The Book of the Law, instigated a New Aeon.
On the first page of this thread threefold31 states twice that using the A=1 to Z=26 gematria takes no effort, and is the laziest method possible to find 395 as the solution to the II:76. cipher in Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law.
That is, for Aleister Crowley for whom Qabalah was his continual study since 1898, it would have been easy to write the II:76. cipher for 395, in his The Book of the Law.
And this is in line with what I have written elsewhere on this site:
The Christian "... traditional Easter celebration of Jesus' resurrection on the third day, is a plausible inspiration for AC's story about receiving his The Book of the Law over three days, writing one hour each day. And an approach that he can have used to achieve the appearance of the one hour of writing each day having occured, is to have used a timing device to keep track of the time spent during each session of writing. Maybe with assistance from his then wife Rose, to help him with keeping track of the time. ..."
(Source: Page 3 of 3, in the thread titled "Was the HGA also the actual initiator in the Order in which AC started on his path as an initiate?" - - - https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/106555/ )
On a side note: It has been suggested that the letter and number sequence in the II:76. cipher, "... could be a precise place in the world, recording lattitude and longditude.":
"As far as the original number and letter sequence is concerned, these could be Cartesian coordinates which cuold be checked on Google Earth. I know, as I
once used such a system for creating a unique order number system to record the date and time of purchase in programming. I shall explain...
A-Z = 25 letters
a-z = 25 letters
0-9 = 10 digits
Total = 60
How many degrees in a circle = 6 * 60
How many minutes in a degree = 60
How many seconds in a minute of arc = 60
Hence this letter and number sequence could be a precise place in the world, recording lattitude and longditude."
( Source: "aristocrat2 posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 02:13 AM", in "4638abk24algmor3yx2489rpstoval, page 4 (abovetopsecret.com)" - - - https://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread534619/pg4 )
If the solution of the II:76. cipher is "... a precise place in the world, recording lattitude and longditude.", to echo Shiva; what will be the particular practical import and point of such a solution, what will be the particular liberating point and import of such a solution, and what mysteries do such a solution solve?
And misses that they have missed it, or misunderstands what might be meany by "sublime simplicity, and [...] immediate conviction."
I have solved that problem by writing a 1008-paged, fine-printed explanation of everything - in order to clear up that misconception.
...
Cluster-bombs. Cluster-fucks. General Cluster and the Indians.
but why should I care to provide you with more about these so-called "mysteries"
Please, don't!
I suggest you reread your thread title (AC's writings on BOTL supports 395 as II:76 cipher's total value) and then:
it would have been easy to write the II:76. cipher for 395 (because this method is so lazy)
395, which on analysis yields and astounding CLUSTER of numerical “mysteries.”
ALHIM + 31 = 395
the "Hebrew Qabalah" was Aleister Crowley's "... continual study
You must construct your own Qabalah!
395 = 8
Samson Raphael Hirsch suggests that eight is a number indicating that “the condition of the previous period is entirely closed, and with the eight, a new beginning is made
The Book of the Law, instigated a New Aeon
Thank you, Samson Raphael Hirsch!
Correction: "And this is not in line with what I have written elsewhere on this site: [...]
an approach that he can have used to achieve the appearance of the one hour of writing each day having occured, is to have used a timing device to keep track of the time spent during each session of writing. Maybe with assistance from his then wife Rose, to help him with keeping track of the time. ..."
the_real_simon_iff: "Please, don't!"
Fine! Just sticking to what AC states in Letter #4, The Qabalah The Best training for Memory, in his book Magick Without Tears, is much simpler:
"... all the mathematics you need is simple Addition and Multiplication. [...]. You will have noticed that in this curt exposition I have confined myself to Gematria, the direct relation of number and word, omitting any reference to Notariqon, [..] or to Temurah[...]. To base any serious calculations on them would be absurd."
Due to all the convoluted gymnastics of QBL on the Internet, with respect to the II:76. Cipher in his BOTL, I used to think that AC could not have written that book spontaneously.
But then I noticed Crowley's use of 395 to solve his BOTL's III:47. "... then this circle squared in its failure is a key also.", in his book The Equinox of the Gods, first published in 1936, and its correspondence with his message to Charles Stansfield Jones aka Frater Achad in 1919: "\ = 418."Thou knowest not." Your key opens Palace. CCXX has unfolded like a flower. All solved, even II.76 & III.47. Did you know ^ = 3.141593? And oh! lots more!" (srd.) AL'AIN the Priest....666".
And I realized that the required gematria involved in 395 as the solution to his BOTL's II:76. Cipher, is so effortless and lazy, that AC easily could have written his BOTL spontaneously.
My premise is of course that AC authored his BOTL with him (or his inner "God of Silence" or HGA) knowing the solution to its II:76 Cipher.
Samson Raphael Hirsch suggests that eight is a number indicating that “the condition of the previous period is entirely closed
Samson is wrong. Nine ends the cycle.
Samson Raphael Hirsch suggests that eight is a number indicating that “the condition of the previous period is entirely closed
Samson is wrong. Nine ends the cycle.
Really, every number is infinite. There is no difference.
Or so I've read.
8 could be a nice book end in a system of Septenaries, an Octave to inaugurate the next cycle of action.
Of course, I'm also fine with nine. Three times three for the Trinitarians, Hegelians and Valknuts.
Ten is also quite nice if you're a Tarot reader working the suits.
Who is
Samson Raphael Hirsch
And forgive me if I've missed something. Was the cipher solved?
I realized that the required gematria involved in 395 as the solution to his BOTL's II:76. Cipher, is so effortless and lazy, that AC easily could have written his BOTL spontaneously.
I think AC did write his BOTL in a "spontaneous spirit." I also suspect that the so-called cipher may amount to a red-herring, a "mystery" over which much energy might be expended (serving the end of keeping the game afoot).
I've been of many minds over this. I've regarded it as a prophetic "Thus Saith The Lord" event, awaiting confirmation and fulfillment. I've entertained it being a conscious and ambition-driven construct (which is the RTC premise). I've regarded it as a ruse. But to date, I have yet to see ANYONE come close to revealing something that make me go "AHA!"
@kidneyhawk Hirsch is - I guess - some Rabbi who says that 8 is end and beginning and therefore WLRB takes this as a proof to his theory. Sorry if this wasn't clear, everything I wrote in Bold are WRWB quotes. I don't blame you for not being able to follow his quotations.
But to date, I have yet to see ANYONE come close to revealing something that make me go "AHA!"
I agree. But there are some you even cannot answer with more than WHAT? I mean, there is an authentic puzzle inside this book and if you take the book seriously it is unconceivable that the answer is 8 or TIMOTHY MOSS or 395. We have to have more faith in the universe.
there is an authentic puzzle inside this book
We've previously read on these hallowed forums the opinion or perspective point that it doesn't matter whether the cipher has a solution or whether the book is, as it claims, a delivered text from outside the mind of the Prophet (something he was at great pains to emphasize for his entire life). Instead, the important thing is whether or not we find find value and inspiration the book. But this same book stakes itself upon being just such a message from "Beyond." Its rousing and inspirational passages are not unique unto itself and may very well suggest Crowley's distillation of Gnostic wisdom mingled with his personal predilections.
Generating a personal "Book of the Law" is not difficult to do. We've seen this done umpteen times. The difference between Crowley's and so many others is that AC had better knowledge of his subject and command of the English language than those who would fain imitate him. Yes, he insisted that AL could not have been his own work because of the grammatical weirdness but whatever...it certainly smacks of AC in both sentiment and wording, albeit in an "automatic" state.
if you take the book seriously it is unconceivable that the answer is 8 or TIMOTHY MOSS or 395
I agree. Absolutely.
But when you state
there is an authentic puzzle inside this book
What do you base this upon? It would seem that you've passed beyond the cynical and suspicious perspectives and believe there is a genuine puzzle and a genuine solution. I am willing to entertain the idea that AC jotted down some garble which will never bear fruit (as much as I am willing to stand corrected!).
We have to have more faith in the universe.
Why?
And, of course, you know my inquiries are both sincere and hopeful.
[Bold is added by me, to quoted text:]
Shiva: "Samson is wrong. Nine ends the cycle."
Is this clearly reflected in Crowley's system for his Thelema? In his 777 Revised I can only find two examples of where the number 9 appears being related to "Terminus" [...] the end of things":
1) "9 Diana (as = [symbol for crescent moon]) [[Terminus, Jupiter]]" in column "XXXV. Some Roman Gods", and "God the Holy Ghost (as Incubus)" in column "XXXVI. Selection of Christian Gods (10); Apostles (12); Evangelists (4) and Churches of Asia (7).", both on page 10 in "TABLE I".
( On the same page in the mentioned column "XXXV. Some Roman Gods", is "32 Saturn [[Terminus, Astræa]]", and "Ephesus" in the mentioned column "XXXVI. Selection of Christian Gods (10); Apostles (12); Evangelists (4) and Churches of Asia (7)." )
2) "9. Diana, Goddess of the Moon. Terminus, marking the boundary. Compare Hermanubis. Jupiter as God of Air and as the foundation (Sat). [...] See "The Naples Arrangement," p. 36.", in "EXPLANATIONS OF THE ATTRIBUTION, COLUMN XXXV: SOME ROMAN GODS", page 92.
( In the mentioned "COLUMN XXXV: SOME ROMAN GODS", under the subheaduing "THE PLANETS", is "32. Terminus, because Saturn is the end of things. Astræa is attributed here in so far as she may be taken to represent the central figure in ATU XXI." )
the_real_simon_iff: "I mean, there is an authentic puzzle inside this book and if you take the book seriously it is unconceivable that the answer is 8 or TIMOTHY MOSS or 395. We have to have more faith in the universe."
The convoluted gymnastics of QBL, concerning the so-called II:76 Cipher in Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law, sheds light on the innermost workings of the human mind but very little on the rest of the universe.
And this is ironic[*] with respect to A. Crowley being positive about "... the validity of the Qabalistic tradition in its practical part, ..." in his 1902 essay Berashit, which he ends by stating:
"Of course, there are bad and invalid processes, which tend rather to disperse or to excite the mind-stuff rather than to control it; these we must discard. [...]
I therefore affirm the validity of the Qabalistic tradition in its practical part as well as in those exalted regions of thought through which we have to recently, and so hardly, travelled."
[*]The irony of QBL dispersing or exciting what AC called "the mind-stuff", rather than being used "to control it", as intended by him.
to date, I have yet to see ANYONE come close to revealing something that make me go "AHA!"
Yes, and i dare say that "AHA" is precisely the affirmative exclamation that would be elicited relative to discovery of the "glad word"....being a glad word in itself!
I can only find two examples of where the number 9 appears being related to "Terminus" [...] the end of things":
You only need to find one "proof," then add it to your knowledge of how many single digits there are (as taught by your kindergarten teacher.
Yes, and i dare say that "AHA" is precisely the affirmative exclamation ...
Agreed. And when an "error" or a "tricky twist" is detected, the exclamation should obviously be, "OHO!
It is amusing to note that this exclamation may also be applied to the SuperFrater of the Oriental Templars.
But to date, I have yet to see ANYONE come close to revealing something that make me go "AHA!"
I will be the fourth to chime in here and agree.
In fact, i have yet to see anyone even come close to revealing something that makes me go "Hmm", a much lower bar.
if you take the book seriously it is unconceivable that the answer is 8 or TIMOTHY MOSS or 395.
Also agreed (second here i think).
Please note that i have solved the cypher, but i forget what the answer is, or what thread it is in. I include my own solution in the above remarks.
i have yet to see anyone even come close to revealing something that makes me go "Hmm", a much lower bar.
This is the "maybe" category.
Further study would be indicated.
Please note that i have solved the cypher, but i forget what the answer is, or what thread it is in. I include my own solution in the above remarks.
Right. I remember that one. Lost in Space, unless somebody can work the searcher-device. It was a classic examp-le of how to do QBL as AC taught it, without fiddling. I ended up by indicating (proving) that you were the one who follows. Nobody challenged you. I verified the QBL - no fiddling detected.
You are now it, until somebody smarter comes along.
It is generally the case that we count from 1-10 because most people are born with ten fingers, two sets of five... he he....
The number 8, eight, though has a distinction, beyond finger digits, to a higher ordering principle of physics, a real chariot of sorts, if one takes a spiraled shell from the sea to one's ear, one can hear the sea, or so I was told by my grandmother....for the number eight needs to be considered from the sciences and poetics of sound, of music, and thus the octave, eight or the seven to a new one, (thus our 1 and 7). And as a demonstrable phenomena, of discernible cycles, to which musical instruments not only measure, but allow the measures to be played...were such playing works with the beginning and and end which is the number eight that now bears an appropriate hieroglyph: 8 ~~~
So the Rabbinic wisdom cited, while clothed in old aeon ossifications, does speak to what are higher ordering principles of nature, and thus have an initiatory wisdom embedded, whose methods can be exposed by sciences...or Grandma...
The instructions relative to II. 76 are to "listen to the numbers and words", where counting, of whatever device, can potentially be feeding "Because"....though the text is an invitation to others to solve or become coagulated...
None the less the "Solvers" competition is interesting as there have been many creative approaches that even the "Hmm's" that turn into pure duds, or continue as "hmm's"....seem to provide some interesting insights and revelations....
Speaking of "Hmm"....(thanks @ignant666)... well that is an interesting word and QKCabalistic formula in itself, and one where the string of mmmm's, following the initial opening, window, Hey, does have the potential to become an "aha" of sorts, as that is what the mind does... though that "aha" may be of the type that turns into just another "Hmm", but not the penultimate "Aha"!
It is said, that AC's last words where, "I am perplexed" and if true, then was he at deaths door thinking of II.76 relative to II. 73?..... I suppose that 395 did not fill the bill.... For as rounding off Pi, while giving a 93, squares the circle with a failure or rather ingenious fudge...and where it should be noted, to those sufficiently familiar with the texts and recently published letters that Frater Achad reminded AC that AC would not solve the puzzle, so perhaps the perplexity, if there was that at the end, had AC scrambling to solve the problem, until the end...true to his motto
Perdurabo!
"Hmm" you say! or perhaps boos and rotten tomatoes....
Well "Hmm" could be counted as a 85, and lo and behold is just 8 away from 93....which might well be a potential hint as turning a 'Hmm' into a 93!
AZ thou wilt~
HG
Still listening!
All numbers are no different: Infinite. To think otherwise is to restrict the mind to linear thinking, which is useful in practical (mundane) matters, but merely clouds the issue presented in higher states.
Or are the numbers infinite as they are different?!
Or are the numbers infinite as they are different?!
Maybe. My point is that a complete system can be (and has been) done on any primary number. It can expand to include the whole box of tricks.
7 is a favorite among the arcane schools
8 is more of an Oriental obsession
9 is deep, dark, and death - so the Associations (Lodges, Orders) have nine degrees. A tenth is hinted at, or sent aloft in the Templar tradition.
The other numbers have their own scheme, but any one of them can be expanded to the highest degree (Oh Lord, with hints of beyond).
That's all.
Shiva: "Samson is wrong. Nine ends the cycle."
Me: "I can only find two examples of where the number 9 appears being related to "Terminus" [...] the end of things":
Shiva: "You only need to find one "proof," then add it to your knowledge of how many single digits there are (as taught by your kindergarten teacher."
Hmmm, my kindergarten teacher taught me that when I had counted all the single fingers on my two hands, I could start again from the beginning, thus the number 10 ending each cycle of such counting.
Crowley on the number 9 as "Most Evil":
"... the Aspirant is seeking to solve the great Problem. And he may conceive, as various Schools of Adepts in the ages have conceived, this problem in three main forms.
Me: "395 is ".... not my simple solution", my argument is that it is AC's solution."
the_real_simon_iff: "... nowhere in the AC quotes you brought up, does he support the "fact" that 395 is the total of the cypher. Or that 395 is somehow superspecial for him."
threefold31: "you double down on calling this "AC's solution" but I fail to see where he ever claimed that it was."
Shiva: "Further study would be indicated."
I did some further study, and found the following.
AL III,19: “That stele they shall call the Abomination of Desolation; count well its name, & it shall be to you as 718.” In his The New Comment to the preceding verse, Crowley lists the number 395 among what he classify as "the hidden numbers", a category also containg the numbers 31 and 93 that were superspecial to him, and his Book of the Law, the core text for his Thelema:
"... the hidden numbers such as 3,141593, 395, 31, 93, may be ascribed to the commentators, and denied to the intention of the text; at least, by that class of Pharisee which strains at the Butterfly of the Soul, preferring to swallow any hippopotamus if it be slimed thickly enough with the miasmal swamp-mire of materialism."
The importance "the hidden number" 395 held for Aleister Crowley, is indicated by him in his later years providing detailed description about it, within what he considered his fulfillment of verse 39 in the third and final chapter of The Book of the Law, a verse concerning him writing a book about the origins of this most important core text of his Thelema:
His book The Equinox of the Gods, first published in 1936.
As i mentioned above, there is the ten digit base, from nature and of our being and then there is also that in the world of sound and thus eight, the octave.
Now 395 is a most interesting number and now with further references, to which I shall add, relative to a tip from @katrice that had nothing to do with this thread, but she had mentioned and influence on Eilphas Levi being a polish metaphysician named Jozef Hoëné Wronski ...eventually the threads of my research on Wronski found me down river at a site where i would find an article on the “Archeosofica” work of Tomasso Palamidessi, where it was in this article my eye would catch!
https://cesnur.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/tjoc_6_4_2_corradetti-cresti.pdf
"Palamidessi mentions the organ of Trinity Church in Cambridge, with a central La at 395Hz"
La = 395 hz
So here we have a number translated out of II. 76 into a listening, of the words and numbers added through the most simple order and value of the English Alphabet, that finds it being the number of a frequency, that happens to be a musical note.
La La La La La...
Hmm...
aha!
I wrote a reply. Then, while still in progress, the screen changed to a new tab, the message was stolen by The Black Lodge, and I am now saving another 30 minutes of precious time before retiring after a last night's short sleep and torturous activities in the dreaded doctor's office.
Maybe tomorrow ... zzz
Hmmm, my kindergarten teacher taught me that when I had counted all the single fingers on my two hands, I could start again from the beginning, thus the number 10 ending each cycle of such counting.
"Start again from the beginning" with 10 is correct. But it is NOT a single digit. Please read the entry qualifications in order to win the prize. 10 is not a single digit. 10 reduces (1+0) to "1," which is a single digit. The beginning of a new cycle. But NOT the end of the previous cycle - it died at 9.
In this particular case, digits refers to numbers, not fingers or toes.
I am not pushing this system (1-9), just pointing out how ANY syestem stands on its own, without reference to its neighbors or other considerations. In this system sent to us from The Pure Land, we see that 395 has its home in 8, which is not the last digit in a series of 9, so it cannot be The End.
You also missed the "It will be marked with the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction" prerequisite.
Verse II:76 of Liber Legis states that Crowley would never know the meaning of its puzzle, which makes his effort to set standards for the puzzle solution absurd, if not potentially detrimental, given that he had not a clue as to what the puzzle means. In a letter to C.S. Jones, Crowley told him that he did not have the head for complex Qabalah, and the given the potential complexity of a cipher with 28 elements consisting of numbers and letters, there is a strong likelihood the solution requires a level of thinking that was beyond Aleister Crowley.
But to date, I have yet to see ANYONE come close to revealing something that make me go "AHA!"
I mean, there is an authentic puzzle inside this book and if you take the book seriously it is unconceivable that the answer is 8 or TIMOTHY MOSS or 395. We have to have more faith in the universe.
That which has been established ad nauseum, is that no matter how many ways the puzzle is translated, standalone, the data itself will not prove true knowledge of the puzzle; knowledge of the entire text of the book is required to prove a true understanding of the puzzle.
"AHA!" moments are usually the reward of those leading the way, not following. The irony and implications in TRSI continuing to evoke my name in these threads, makes me smile and continue to realize the significance of my findings and their impact.
The only thing I can do is share, so imagine pondering verse II:16 of Liber Legis, and concluding its Tarot symbolism could be a clue to a new ordering of the planets and signs of Zodiac, based on the Empress equating with Venus, and the Hierophant with the sign Taurus. Venus could be fifth in the order, and Taurus sixth, thus allowing them to equal eleven when paired. You become fascinated with how the rest of the order could be worked out, and realize it can be accomplished by using the order of the planets from the sun, the order of the signs of the Zodiac, and the astrological concept of ruling planets. You also realize the four elements can be placed in the arrangement next the cardinal signs of the Zodiac, and then place the element of Spirit last in the arrangement. With the planet Pluto having been demoted from planet to asteroid two years earlier, you have 26 cosmological features that are ideal to be paired with the letters of the English Alphabet.
A few weeks later, in another spontaneous episode of inspiration, you realize the best theoretical gematria system for encrypting ideas in a text is the one that will produce the most numeric coincidences between words, and having worked with computers and gematria systems for decades, you know the most coincidences will come from a system created around a specific text, by assigning the value 1 to the letter that occurs the most often, and the value 26 to the letter that occurs the least often. You design the system around Liber Legis, and marry it with the cosmological arrangement created earlier.
Several weeks after creating the magical alphabet described above, and while exploring gematria equations with it using software, you realize your full name has the same gematria value as the letters in the first half of the II:76 puzzle, while letters in the second half have the same value as the city and state where you were born and still live. That was an "AHA!" moment that has led to many others.
Aleister Crowley's names are concealed in the numbers of both puzzle halves:
Four Six Three Eight + Two Four + Three = 199 = Edward Alexander Crowley
24 + 89 = 113 = Aleister Crowley
Verse II:76 ... states that Crowley would never know the meaning of its puzzle, which makes his effort to set standards for the puzzle solution absurd, if not potentially detrimental, given that he had not a clue as to what the puzzle means.
By taking this viewpoint, you have resorted to the most basic level of common sense, which is a refreshing approach. Yes, anything AC thought, said, or wrote about his enigmatic Stoval is possibly delerium tremens, cocainic optimism, opioid dogma, or some other "what if? - or - "Think positively" ...
Crowley told him that he did not have the head for complex Qabalah
A rare moment of true Confession. Lest I be accused of being snooty, I also do not have that said head. We all (more or less) have the same lower mental calculator ...
LAShTAL
93
... but some of us drop out when the going gets ridiculous ...
LAShTAL = XCIII / 3 = 31 x My middle initial = X
which is to be divided by today's date
[mo/day/4-digit year format]
and squared by pi to the 11th decimal
equals
The Path from Chesed to Binah
[he drops out]
@herupakraath Of course it is with irony that I am keeping to tease your solution. It's the same irony used for WRWB and his confidence that "AC's writings support 395". Maybe some day, when you have delivered the promised New Magick that the Egyptian Adepts ordered you to write down, I will have to say I am sorry, I was wrong. Until then I am waiting unconvinced that TIM MOSS is the cypher. Anyway, you say, that only a complete knowledge of the the book can prove your solution, but I see not very much apart from the (admittedly great) idea to sort the letters after their occurence in the book and giving them some standard attributions to astrology etc. All you need is the letters of the book and a computer as I see it, not real "knowledge". Also, as I and others have shown, with some fiddling (like inventing "groups" of numbers and using them more than once - which you haven't addressed by the way) it is very easy to get desired results. Also, as with WRWB, it is not a good idea to quote too much Crowley, because he said too much and too often contradicts himself. I would not put any weight on the qabalah quote to Jones, because it then suited him, at other times he was a great qabalist. Also you are right about his "sublime simplicity" - it is not INSIDE the puzzle - but he also WAS the prophet and invoked Aiwass later in life sometimes, so it is complicated. If I remember correctly (have to check when I have the time), you also had the TIM MOSS "AHA!" moment with pre-Tri-Key solutions, hadn't you? I won't quote lust of result stuff here. I am sure you are busy working on proving your solution.
Anyway, you say, that only a complete knowledge of the the book can prove your solution
Actually the phrase went something like ...
"
knowledge of the entire text of the book is required to prove a true understanding of the puzzle.
[unquote]
I noticed the word "understanding," and almost replied to it, but I was either too busy or too lazy to do so. Now you have forced (forced, you hear?) me to respond.
People OFTEN write or say "understanding" when they actually mean "knowledge" or "know." The solution to the problematic enigma is supposed to be simple and self evident, according to the profitless prophet himself - who, as has been shown, really has no say in the matter due to lifetime ignorance.
Understanding is "intuition," "direct perception," and is called Gnosis, not Knowsis. This sort of perception is performed via dhyana or samadhi. Since none of that is under discussion, it must be assumed that knowsis isbeing employed.
Quibblists
I am totally stealing that word for my own use.
As for any other order, value, or arrangement, infinite potentials seem to exist ... but they'll need an ox-cart load of proof.
The final question is, what value does it have to the Work? What initiatory use?
3+9+5 = 17 Aha! This is good enough for the 0 to 21 Atu QBL, but it's too big for the big "K." So we reduce it again: 1+7=8. This is a good number. One of the best
The Star and Lust?
The final question is, what value does it have to the Work? What initiatory use?
This QBL stuff is a system for ordering the mind. Nobody's going to pass Paroketh unless their mind is ordered (to a certain degree). Nobody is going to cross the big gap unless their mind is pinpoint-honed to "perfection."
Perfection comes just before the Poof!
Everybody must build (order) their own mind structure (QBL).
It is nice to start with the ABC's as listed in 777 - then we all talk, think, and expound in the common lingo, which is also composed of symbols instead or just letters and digits ... which is important because the HGA often communicates in symbols.
Other ways for other folks. Some scientists (5th-ray geeks) will possibly (probably) have NEVER heard or seen QBL. How do they order their mind[s]? Why, they memorize The Periodic Table of the Elements ... and there's an ordering system for all the disciplines.
All this is just a way to get the mind settled ... not as a creative tool.
Then the acolytic aspirants line up and start getting creative. I know all about it. I pleaded guilty before I was sentenced to lose my mind (I have revolving parole, wherein my mind comes and goes, according to the demands of wood and water).
QBL is an intermediary principle, like the Angel, the Guru, the grand master, and the separated self.
Yes, training all in preparation, for throwing the puzzle on the floor, reshuffling the deck, spinning the wheel, to a place that when the holograph starts speaking,etc... by what ever might serve as the entrance and thus be the magic mirror... that then one has proper abilities to not go dull, or not get deluded, in front of the Rorschach blot(s)...
And that one has the capabilities to at least bring one's delusions, or not, then be under will, if one so desires~
Thanks!
Everybody must build (order) their own mind structure (QBL).
I know all of that. Hod provides the structure, the system provides the initial map to lead to building your own map that ideally helps to lead to the territory of wisdom and understanding and to the eventual transcendence of the rational to the transrational.
I meant what value does the claimed solution have? Unless it leads to some usable result, what benefit does it have?
I meant what value does the claimed solution have?
Oh, that! It (any) must describe its own practical value. In "simple sublimity," if we are to believe Therion's viewpoint.
I have more or less asked the same question, repeatedly, the core word of which is/was/has-been practical. That is, "What can this solution be used for?"
If it can't be used for something practical, then maybe it has some abstract meaning - whereby understanding of some fleeting concept is grasped in an Aha! moment.
Falling short of this generous description, there is this cosmic trash can called Qliphoth [cliff-off][off-the-cliff]
I meant what value does the claimed solution have? Unless it leads to some usable result, what benefit does it have?
I guess, technically, a solution to a riddle doesn't have to have any value. It is just a solution to a riddle. Of course, if "395" would have any overwhelming power of persuasion to be the solution, nobody would ask for a meaning. But it hasn't and a Trinity organ LA won't help with that. The TIM MOSS solution hasn't any value either, unless Tim Moss brings us a new supercool Magick he got from Egyptian Adepts. But I think it is worthy to think about: does the solution to the cypher has to have meaning? Or is it just that, the solution to the cipher? A code solved? II:76 is just a thrown-in riddle? Maybe. My own suggestion is: if that book is somehow important, than that cypher has to be. And no solution so far has been in any way convincing.
does the solution to the cypher has to have meaning? Or is it just that, the solution to the cipher? A code solved?
I don't know that 2:75-76 is, of necessity, what we tend to assume it must be. Crowley points us in a direction we may already be prejudiced towards when he comments that it seems to be a qabalistic puzzle. It could be. I think it likely is. But I can't say for SURE-because I do not know what "IT" actually is.
The question is: What meaneth THIS? The word "this" is not obviously qualified to indicate a puzzle, a cipher or anything else. It seems to indicate the previous mass of numbers and letters but doesn't define what "THAT" is. The one who comes after (technically, we FOLLOWS) shall EXPOUND it. THAT word ("expound") can indicate something other than "SOLVE."
It could be that its content awaits a Rosetta Stone to unlock it. It could be that v.76 IS that Stone. It could also be something else.
My own suggestion is: if that book is somehow important, than that cypher has to be
I have always been in agreement with this. It's a perennial fascination but also a frustration as
no solution so far has been in any way convincing.
Perhaps we will live to see the one who "follows" actually arrive and expound it.
My own suggestion is: if that book is somehow important, than that cypher has to be. And no solution so far has been in any way convincing.
THAT word ("expound") can indicate something other than "SOLVE."
This is my position as well. Is it just a sword in the stone, or a Gordian Knot and the mere act of solving it means that the person is The One Who Comes After? Is it like 42 and when we have the answer we need to figure out the question? 😉
Or does the cipher have a meaning unto itself? That's what I've always thought. It seems like it would have to. And that the solution wouldn't just be something with no further meaning besides being a solution. People have found layers of meaning in every other part of AL, why would this be any different?
But, hey, maybe this solution is packed with significance for all and its just beyond my grade. 😉
@herupakraath ...Anyway, you say, that only a complete knowledge of the the book can prove your solution, but I see not very much apart from the (admittedly great) idea to sort the letters after their occurrence in the book...
Dwtw
For the record, the idea of numbering the English alphabet from 1 to 26 with the most common letters in CCXX to the least common was an idea I first espoused many years ago on Holycram. The idea did not originate with Mr. Moss, as his statements might lead one to believe. I do appreciate his creative use of it; he has studied the results far more in depth than I have.
I will post a reply about the possibilities of serial gematria on the thread that has the actual solution to the Cipher, rather than here.
Litlluw
O.L.