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An analysis of the watermarks on the sheets of Liber L vel Legis  

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herupakraath
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12/12/2019 6:17 am  
Posted by: @therealrtc

Pertinent to this thread is a fact that, at an indeterminate time (likely at the Abbey of Thelema), Crowley re-backed each of the individual manuscript leaves with linen, then trimmed them to size (as described in the Big Blue Brick, somewhere near the back).  So, all dimensions and all dimensional deviations supporting this theory were hand-crafted by Crowley, in Cefalu, not Pirie,  in Scotland.  Though, I am sure Aiwass was guiding his scissors.

Two more sheets
 
There is no way the edges of the two sheets shown above were trimmed by anyone with a pair scissors, the contours fit together perfectly. The edges represent factory cuts made at the paper mill, and can only be produced by cutting a larger sheet into multiple pieces of the same size. There are at least a hundred other similar examples that can be demonstrated.
 

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wellreadwellbred
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12/12/2019 9:14 am  

herupakraath: "The solution to verse III:47 of Liber L requires no map, no stele, nothing but the correct magical alphabet and the person that knows how to use it, as you will soon learn. 😀 

Yours truly, Doctor Watermark."

Does said solution have anything to do with what you write about in this thread, herupakraath, aka Doctor Watermark??

 


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lashtal
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12/12/2019 10:16 am  
Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Why did you previously announce your knowledge of the solution and yet choose not to share, even after all this time?

'The Riddle' was discussed on this site and I pointed out that the solution wasn't exactly rocket science and was certainly no secret. My intention then to write a book on AC in Egypt made that an obvious route to publication.  

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RTC
 RTC
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12/12/2019 1:11 pm  

@lashtal“... the solution wasn't exactly rocket science and was certainly no secret. My intention then to write a book on AC in Egypt made that an obvious route to publication.” – If it’s not a secret, then, in the spirit of Horus and Christmas, distribute it widely and freely like digital snowflakes for the edification of all.  How about a LAShTAL ‘12 clues of riddle’ festive quiz?  Pay-per-view?  Grossly overpriced pamphlet?

Continued withholdiness may blow your cover as a covert agent of the Black Lodge.      

@herupakraath – He probably employed a stationers’ guillotine, in preference to scissors...   😉


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lashtal
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12/12/2019 1:37 pm  

For the avoidance of doubt, and in order to prevent further distraction: I will not be responding to further calls for publication of the 'solution'. There are far more interesting topics that merit further research around the Cairo Working...

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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ignant666
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12/12/2019 2:42 pm  

This is a pity (as i have said each time you've said this), Paul @lashtal.

You are the only non-cuckoo-seeming person i have ever heard claim to have a solution, and the things you say about it make it sound like it might be the right one.

Are there any circumstances that might cause you to disclose this solution? Is it, for example, included in your will, for postmortem disclosure?

You have said in the past that the solution is disclosed in plain language somewhere on the site, but no one has ever figured out where.


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Shiva
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12/12/2019 4:49 pm  

It's a really good thing that the so-called spiritual path, the walking of which to the very end being required, is not dependent upon the resolution of riddles, puzzles, or codes.

Said riddles, puzzles, or codes are part of the QBL practice wherein any and all things are classified and correlated into their respective pigeon holes. This is done in pursuit of Ordering the Mind for, you see, a disordered mind is not capable of being blown away without leaving mental fragments (like asteroids) that can be harvested by the Black Brother or Sister and used for bricks in the foundation of their lonely tower.

Now that the Moderator has been accused (by insinuation and indirect joshing) of harboring or hoarding asteroids, I see no hope or help in other spells, except to reveal that every poster and reader here at LAShTAL is authorized to possess one ultimate secret, the solution of which is guaranteed to bestow immortality. And they shall not be compelled to reveal said secret data by force or ridicule. Says so in the Jung Scriptures.

That's simple enough, isn't it?

There's One who will come after each of us. He will reveal it.

 


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12/12/2019 4:59 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

You have said in the past that the solution is disclosed in plain language somewhere on the site, but no one has ever figured out where.

No one?

@lashtal's solution was on the site. Unless the posts were removed or hidden it should still be available.

Posted by: @shiva

It's a really good thing that the so-called spiritual path, the walking of which to the very end being required, is not dependent upon the resolution of riddles, puzzles, or codes.

Said riddles, puzzles, or codes are part of the QBL practice wherein any and all things are classified and correlated into their respective pigeon holes. This is done in pursuit of Ordering the Mind for, you see, a disordered mind is not capable of being blown away without leaving mental fragments (like asteroids) that can be harvested by the Black Brother or Sister and used for bricks in the foundation of their lonely tower.

Now that the Moderator has been accused (by insinuation and indirect joshing) of harboring or hoarding asteroids, I see no hope or help in other spells, except to reveal that every poster and reader here at LAShTAL is authorized to possess one ultimate secret, the solution of which is guaranteed to bestow immortality. And they shall not be compelled to reveal said secret data by force or ridicule. Says so in the Jung Scriptures.

That's simple enough, isn't it?

There's One who will come after each of us. He will reveal it.

 

Shiva's solution is to use mental gymnastics as a coping mechanism.


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frater_anubis
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12/12/2019 9:10 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

There's One who will come after each of us. He will reveal it.

This thread is as good a place to start as any. All you need, as has been said elsewhere, is a good scan of Liber Al vel Legis, a map of Cairo.....etc

https://www.lashtal.com/forums/topic/cairo-1904-looking-for-information/

Paul got a lot of information out of Faustian, follow the thread - and succeed

Johnny


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Shiva
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13/12/2019 3:10 am  
Posted by: @frater_anubis

follow the thread - and succeed

I followed the thread
I went to the head
(o fthe pyramids)

I drew the line
It was so fine
(I got lost)

Google's not sent its truck
So I'm out of luck
(to find the key)

Sirius is found
Right there on the ground
(but there's naught to see)

 


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herupakraath
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13/12/2019 3:47 am  
Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

 

Does said solution have anything to do with what you write about in this thread, herupakraath, aka Doctor Watermark??

 

No.


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herupakraath
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13/12/2019 3:54 am  
Posted by: @therealrtc

     

@herupakraath – He probably employed a stationers’ guillotine, in preference to scissors...   😉

No one trimmed the sheets of the Liber L manuscript using any means. No only is it inconceivable that Crowley would trim the sheets, the 60th sheet, the 'Grid page" proves it. The 8 x 10 grid Crowley drew over it still contains the full grid, with all of the squares having equal dimensions,  and the page is the same size as the rest of the sheets, so you must be wrong.

 


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ignant666
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13/12/2019 4:47 am  
Posted by: @herupakraath

No one trimmed the sheets of the Liber L manuscript using any means.

From p. 743 of the Blue Brick (emphasis added):

The original MS of Liber XXXI is written on paper bearing the watermark "Alex Pipie & Sons, London, Standard Typewriting" with a crest, and measuring approximately 8 5/16" x 10 1/2"... The trim size varies as the sheets were rebacked on linen and trimmed irregularly. [...] Some text [of ch. 1] was nearly cut off when the MS was trimmed and rebacked; see especially page 9.


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RTC
 RTC
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13/12/2019 1:52 pm  

@ignant666 - Thanks for posting the exact quote. I note that the author of the piece, rather curiously, elected to cite the wrong manufacturer. "Pipie," as printed, should read "Pirie."

@herupakraath - So, there was no trimming, using any means, because such is inconceivable, the Grid page is proof, and Aiwass did indeed do the Scottish Leaf Shuffle on Pirie's table.  I'm so relieved I feel a big, sloppy facepalm coming on... Yup, there it is...  😉

scissors

 

 


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herupakraath
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14/12/2019 7:56 pm  
Posted by: @therealrtc

I'm so relieved I feel a big, sloppy facepalm coming on... Yup, there it is... 

It's not the hand gesture I had in mind, but thanks for the effort. 😀 

 

 


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threefold31
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18/12/2019 12:07 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath

 

 The reason the author of verse III:73 instructs readers to paste the sheets, is to alert them of the fact that he not only knew of both inversions of the sheets, but caused them. 

 

Dwtw

This is a complicated argument, whose purpose seems to be to help prove the super-human intelligence/knowledge of Aiwass. A simpler reason for the instruction to paste the sheets is that it reveals the key number of Liber AL in a very straightforward manner.

The only constant on all the sheets is the page number, running from 1-22, then 1-22 again, then 1-21. By pasting the sheets in a 5 x 13 grid, OR a 13 x 5 grid, the key number of 143 is shown simply by adding up the page numbers.

In the first example, 143 is the sum of the central column, and all the possible diagonals.

In the second example, the number 143 is the sum of the central row, and all the possible diagonals.

Here we have essentially the same results, turned sideways. What is significant is that the page-numbers that sum to 143 are not the same numbers as in the first example.

This only happens because of the unique numbering of the 65 sheets of the ms.

 

image
image

 

The number 143 is the sum of all the numbers in the Cipher of II:76. When the letters of the Cipher are turned into numerical values, based on Crowley's assignment of the English alphabet to LIber Trigrammaton, then the sum of the entire contents of Liber CCXX is found very simply:

143 * {(ABK * RPSTOVAL) - (ALGMOR * YX)} = The Global Sum of Liber CCXX

 

Litlluw

RLG


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christibrany
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18/12/2019 9:02 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @frater_anubis

follow the thread - and succeed

I followed the thread
I went to the head
(o fthe pyramids)

I drew the line
It was so fine
(I got lost)

Google's not sent its truck
So I'm out of luck
(to find the key)

Sirius is found
Right there on the ground
(but there's naught to see)

 

Shiva is that a potty joke?


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Shiva
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19/12/2019 3:50 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

Shiva is that a potty joke?

No. You must have a potty mind.  Let me explain ...

Posted by: @shiva

Sirius is found
Right there on the ground
(but there's naught to see)

Sirius is hi-level consciousness.

Said hi-level is brought down to the physical plane.

But it's not definable, because the seer has dissolved.

So, again, nothing triumphs (trumps).


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wellreadwellbred
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19/12/2019 3:01 pm  

threefold31: "143 * {(ABK * RPSTOVAL) - (ALGMOR * YX)} = The Global Sum of Liber CCXX".

 

This is apparently a short and succinct solution to the Cipher of II:76 in AC'sThe Book of the Law, but do you threefold31, use the the signs * and - to represent respectively the multiplication sign and "... the minus sign (−) [that] has three main uses in mathematics:[13] The subtraction operator: a binary operator to indicate the operation of subtraction, as in 5 − 3 = 2. Subtraction is the inverse of addition. The function whose value for any real or complex argument is the additive inverse of that argument. For example, if x is 3, then −x is −3, but if x is −3, then −x is 3. Similarly, −(−x) is equal to x. A prefix of a numeric constant. When it is placed immediately before an unsigned numeral, the combination names a negative number, the additive inverse of the positive number that the numeral would otherwise name. In this usage, '−5' names a number just as 'semicircle' names a geometric figure, the difference being that 'semi' does not have a separate use as a function name." (Source: Plus and minus signs - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus_and_minus_signs )

That is, can said solution from you threefold31, be written like this?:

143 multiplied with {(ABK multiplied with RPSTOVAL) minus (ALGMOR multiplied with YX)} = The Global Sum of Liber CCXX.


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threefold31
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20/12/2019 3:02 pm  
Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

threefold31: "143 * {(ABK * RPSTOVAL) - (ALGMOR * YX)} = The Global Sum of Liber CCXX".

That is, can said solution from you threefold31, be written like this?:

143 multiplied with {(ABK multiplied with RPSTOVAL) minus (ALGMOR multiplied with YX)} = The Global Sum of Liber CCXX.

Dwtw

That's correct. I used an abbreviated format to keep the post succinct. Note that the four groups of letters are in the same order and grouping as they occur in the Cipher.

143 is one of the key numbers in Liber AL, as evidenced by its use in the Cipher of II:76, and its concealment in the numbering of the pages, and a host of other instances too lengthy to detail here.

Litlluw

RLG

 

 


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Jamie J Barter
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21/12/2019 4:05 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath

The first image provided consists the last two sheets of the first chapter of the Liber L manuscript, along with the first three sheets of the second chapter. The group is created when all of the sheets in the manuscript are pasted from right to left and top to bottom in a 5 x 13 pattern as instructed in verse III:73.

But III:73 gives no "instruction" at all that the pasting was meant to be carried out in such a fashion; in theory they could even be pasted in some irregular geometrical shape apart from a rectangle. 

In fact, if the long-neglected "cover" sheet is included as part of  the whole package, then the number of pages totals to 66, which in turn factorises into the 'solar' 6 and the 'magickal' 11 - surely in themselves, much more meaningful numbers to "behold"?

NormaN Joy Conquest


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(@jg)
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25/12/2019 3:30 am  

 

The section written below your quote below was written prior not only to your most recent clarifying post (hereafter known as the post of two shates shorn in twain) and now that I am no longer in the dark it can be dismissed in toto. I have decided to include it as an example of the type of mental confusion which occurs when doubt of the clear evidence of who aiwass arises and sows (quantum) quasar chaos through the transfigured reason of the hyalescent flowers of the antipodal (a)boreal forest

I must admit although I am clear now and agree with you one hundred percent that only the most visually impaired and dull witted amongst us will now not be absolutely and assuredly convinced that there was indeed a Visitation of the Blessed Angel Aiwass at the Pirie Paper Mill prior to Crowley writing on its paper. We need not discuss at this time whether Aiwass travelled back in time during his actual recitation of AL in the ear of AL in the place neither here nor there when the doubt first arose in AL whether the timbre of the voice of AL would be convincing to the most sceptical of Pyrro-Zoroastrians. We do know Crowley had the ability to be at two space-times at once so it does not appear unreasonable to think Aiwass also had the ability.

After I masticate further the new jagged curvature snipping evidence, and the acrostic sigils of the trimmed linen backing of the manuscript, etched in cotton through the poly-praeter-human guidance of dyadic shears of non-linearity, I will post yet again.

The reason the author of verse III:73 instructs readers to paste the sheets, is to alert them of the fact that he not only knew of both inversions of the sheets, but caused them

I am in agreement with a few other posters here as I am not completely clear as to what it is you are claiming.  I do admit I have not meticulously gone through your argument in an earnest endeavor to make it clear.  But in a febrile attempt to provide a contra-argument I here advance several not highly improbable scenarios which are (in my judgment) more probably the cause of the (double?) inverted marks.  In order of likelihood (if indeed there is an intelligent causal relation between the (double?) inverted marks and the verse you reference):

Lacanian-Joycean Hypothesis I

Crowley designed it thus through the most high arcana of his celestial magia in Sheol, videlicet, through forked tongued trickery, falsehood, and glamor – as set forth unequivocally in the dis-continuous deus ex dyadoamus of Book I of our Class A curricula - in short it is a revelatory blind to bind acolytes to Anu Aeon of Heru liberalien secular inverted puritanical (botanicals).  (Although truth be told the principle(s) of the Book of the Law appear to be the rules or lack thereof by which the king of the beasts has always operated:  the master slave dialectic of ego and id, willy-nilly re-spelled and re-cast in suberego trancecryptian (to be safe, sound, and sure, and thoroughly complete the trinary binary for all langdome cone!)

Lacan Joycean Hypothesis Hypothesis II

2) The chap flipped (them), rotated them, and flipped them once again, doubly inverting them, before and daft, twice to be sure, once less to annull, the chap being either he who ought not to be named, or the lad or lassie at the paper mill, the first to witness in horror and terror the necromatic stele mummy re-surrection and unghastly riddled rehabearance of Aiwass Ankh-af-na-knonsu, Most Voracious and Ainjust.  If the other chap (the odds of both being Scotsmen beyond reasonable bounds of chance for after the Roman slaughter of the Picts few remain to this day and they either opiod, meth, or fine Scotch addicts) the mysterious event occurring either at his mahagony desk at Boleskine; his Hotel in Cairo; his boat to and fro Pyramid-o-Landia (mayhap afloat the rose granite sarcophagus of the crypt chamber itself); a flat (flip) here, here, and there; Gay Paree didst Rhodean Arheam; the lascivious bælly of Rose, and other environs (in particular, the Azbakiyya district of Cairo https://globalurbanhistory.com/2016/09/09/sex-work-regulation-and-the-colonial-order-in-late-nineteenth-century-cairo/ where assuredly these sheets absolutely got mixed up, and magically, and mysteriously through doubly inverted buttockery, most likely acquired their quizzically perplexing yet now transparent unenigmatic stains, proving the fringe cultists who dared utter the utter heretical parsemony it was fibbingly scribbled in either a Wish-el-Birka or a Wass‘a brothel (foreign and domestic workers respectively (Putin and Trump for the cognition impaired)) right.

But seriously, even if the premises of your argument are granted (and perhaps a logician amongst us will separate the gist of the grist of it into distinct propositions in order of series of premises and series of consequents, convert them into the symbolic language of first order predicate calculus, and see if at least the formal structure of your argument abides, coheres, and pro-cesses by minimally rigorous rules of inference and logic) we may lazily entertain the following possibilities (admittedly not as credible as other postulates - for instance God in Heaven to trick the beast and his disciples inserted through hir omnipotence a jesuitical and casuistical clause and clue to the faithful) – henceforth to be known as the book stub hypotheses of Papyraeus von Pompeius

1)  There are more than 65 sheets in one package of Scotishue paper from the Alex Pirie and Sons paper mill

2)  The number of sheets in one package of paper is not antiently divided evenly by 65

3)  Human hands enter into the packaging process because that modern marvel of a mill is not absolutely automated from the beginning of the production process to the final packaging and shipping of the paper through the time maw of (Loch) Nessie to the eternally awoke organs of the embalmed canopic jams of ancient Egyptian scribes – yummy tongue foremost amiddenst them (cf Ritual of the Opening of the Mouth of the Dwat for even more yummier details)

4) One batch of cut sheaves of paper got flipped at an unknown 1 out of 21 or 1 out of 22 absolutely improbable free sheaf division (s)election of one zero selpherotic foul atu

4a) These sheaves are the very sheaves seen by Joseph in his dream, bound and bowing to him. The twelve which are thirteen which are one.

5) The author of the Book of the Law in hasty preparation for honeymoon in Cairo besotted in intemperate lust and head over heels in heartless love (yet fresh from violent arguments with Rose that she is his Scarlet Harlot and She Will obey his law of license and lust (arguments which kundalinied mysteriously into his burbling skull during imprecisely remembered recitation sessions with a mummy khu-ka-ba-he-ra (along with an injunction threatening infanticide)) snatched from his writing desk two separate sheaves of writing paper each originally from two separate packages of writing paper, one upside down one right side up one inverted one contraverted, gathered them in a heap and tidied them in his luggage (unless Rose mishearing the commands of her master lord and husband beast mixed up in hair "ort of mind" the directions and instructions so clearly given to her that its prophetic admonition drove her not only out of middle earth but into hard liquored dipsomania)

6) Alex Pirie is actually Alexander Piper the Bag Pied Piper of Boleskine and his Sons are they who he first piped out of their rat infested Christian New York haunts, and who are now light years beyond the original piping and now pipe their own pipings incorporating the Dao ten thousand fold increase of human knowledge of history, science (soft and hard), religion, music, art, literature, now at their disposal in the intervening last century, light years beyond the island universe galaxy womb of the British Empire fin de siecle and pre-post-Brexit - as Hubble as so incisely foresaw. (הבל · חכמה = בראשית ברא אלהים את־השמים ואת־הארץ)

For as was also so amply demonstrated incontrovertiblely by the Right Reasoner of Ruteland, there was no supernatural or magical or spiritual or praeter human origin of the manuscript of the Book of the Law, it originated 99.99 percent through the subtlety of the human serpent manifest in the conscious logic design and inspiration of dee brain-i-ac.  However, as the first and late other Reverend Ruteland Reasoner also so clearly showed, so insidious the purpose of that man, so skillful the design, so secret its execution, so chess-like the logic of its ploy, that 0.001 percent is authored through God Most High – the tri-une Brahma Vishnu-Shiva in Her Name Kali – for she did stoop to the depth of the stooping serpent - and concealed in the human all too human scrit, and traced lexicological runic marvels of literal Qabalistical higher arithmetics to lead those led astray back to the bon-a-fide pure hindoo polyontological monotheism of the origin of the Aryan race - using Jewish Hermetic Apostate Qabalah sprung of Renaissance deluxe playing cards and medieval syncretism to steer those misled by Saint Nicholas back to the re-election campaign of the champion of the religious right and one true protestant puritanism of anti-ecology and hotel (re)construction. (Enlighenment and True Will as easy bonus side effects necessarily following as candy proffered to children)

On second thought

 

 


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Shiva
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25/12/2019 5:00 pm  
Posted by: @john-griffith

The section written below your quote below was written prior not only to your most recent clarifying post (hereafter known as the post of two shates shorn in twain) and now that I am no longer in the dark it can be dismissed in toto. I have decided to include it as an example of the type of mental confusion which occurs when doubt of the clear evidence of who aiwass arises and sows (quantum) quasar chaos through the transfigured reason of the hyalescent flowers of the antipodal (a)boreal forest

This [^] entire statement, including emphasis on two words being written twice in the same sentence, in itself, is an example of mental confusion. It always helps (the reader) to (by the writer) simply state what it is that is being said.

The rest of your post is so long that it must be measured to see if it is the longest post ever, or close to it. It is so long, and so flowery in lingo, that it is difficult, nay impossible, to determine what your point is ... and whether you believe in Aiwass or the paper mill workers. Or whether you believe in Aleister.

Personally, I believe in Aleister Crowley, I do not believe in Aiwass as an independent entity, I believe actual human people worked at the paper mill and also in the hotel, and I believe Aleister did stay in said hotel.

Now, if you can state your thesis in a sentence this [^] short, or long, maybe a dialog will be possible.

Posted by: @john-griffith

I am clear now and agree with you one hundred percent

It is unclear who "you" is. It is difficult to determine who you are replying to.

 


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(@jg)
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25/12/2019 8:20 pm  

 

Posted by: @shiva

It is unclear who "you" is. It is difficult to determine who you are replying to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5kmCgVhADY


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Shiva
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26/12/2019 1:26 am  

John, are you trying to say "you" is YouTube?


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threefold31
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26/12/2019 5:36 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter
Posted by: @herupakraath

The first image provided consists the last two sheets of the first chapter of the Liber L manuscript, along with the first three sheets of the second chapter. The group is created when all of the sheets in the manuscript are pasted from right to left and top to bottom in a 5 x 13 pattern as instructed in verse III:73.

But III:73 gives no "instruction" at all that the pasting was meant to be carried out in such a fashion; in theory they could even be pasted in some irregular geometrical shape apart from a rectangle. 

In fact, if the long-neglected "cover" sheet is included as part of  the whole package, then the number of pages totals to 66, which in turn factorises into the 'solar' 6 and the 'magickal' 11 - surely in themselves, much more meaningful numbers to "behold"?

NormaN Joy Conquest

Dwtw

Of course you're correct, the ms doesn't specify precisely how the sheets are to be pasted. Therefore, numerous ways should be attempted until something of significance appears, which then justifies the methodology. It's no different that filling out a crossword puzzle - lots of words could be put in the grid and make a puzzle complete, but only one set of words were intended by the designer.

If you want to use 66 sheets and make a triangle out of them, go right ahead; then show me if you've found anything of significance.

What I have demonstrated in the diagram is an unequivocal reference to a number of great importance in the ms, hidden within the numbering of the pages. There may be other meanings to 'paste the sheets', but whatever they are does not diminish the mathematical facts that I described.

In magic square parlance, the number 143 is a 'magic constant' of not one, but two rectangular grids of page numbers, using two different subsets of them. This is the kind of mathematical precision one would expect if indeed the ms was designed by a superior intelligence to hide qabalistic and numerical secrets .

Litlluw

RLG


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the_real_simon_iff
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27/12/2019 5:42 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath

So there you have it: physical evidence that the author of Liber L vel Legis had inexplicable knowledge of the sheets that no human being could have possessed, thus proving the metaphysical origins of text.

93, herupakraath

I like what you have done with you 5x13 layout, but I in my opinion you just show the layout used during the process of the backing up of the pages with linen. I don't think that the contours match very good (and typewriting paper would have these irregular contours anyway), but the creases and stains and wrinkles match quite well. It is unconceivable that a creased, stained and wrinkled paper like this would have been delivered as standard typewriting paper. Even in 1904 paper was cut in perfect straight cuts. But it seems highly probable that (whoever did it for Crowley) all these "defects" occurred when the pages were backed up with linen - obviously not very perfectly. I imagine a piece of glued linen, laying the pages on it in "your" 5x13 pattern and then cutting the pages out after drying (we read somewhere that parts of the original page borders were cut off nearly affecting text in some cases). That makes way more sense than some worker at the paper mill would have inverted the watermarks somehow, which frankly makes no sense.

Love=Law

Lutz


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the_real_simon_iff
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27/12/2019 6:25 pm  
Posted by: @threefold31
 
In the first example, 143 is the sum of the central column, and all the possible diagonals.
 
In the second example, the number 143 is the sum of the central row, and all the possible diagonals.

93, threefold31

You claim that all possible diagonals equal 143, so I checked it. I started with your second example, simply because it was more convenient to handle on a screen. There are 8 possible ways to start the diagonals, of these only 2 match 143. Even your second one (starting with 4) is not correct: at the end you jump to 1 instead of landing on 18 (something you also do with the second diagonals in your first example, after or before the six would be the 2, not the 5). So, however important the number 143 is, it is just reached in 25% of the cases. I have attached a pic with all 8 diagonals (of course there could be more).

143

You're welcome.

Love=Law

Lutz


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the_real_simon_iff
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27/12/2019 6:43 pm  

93, herupakraath

Of course it must say: "and typewriting paper WOULDN'T have these irregular contours anyway"

Love=Law

Lutz


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Shiva
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27/12/2019 6:54 pm  

Real-ity Checks are useful, iff we want to remain unswayed by illusion, or iff we need to realize that almost any numerical juggling is just that. Juggling.

Sometimes the numbers and the letters and the lines seem to prove the existence of praeterhuman entities, who are explaining the universe to us. Most of the time, however, they prove themselves to be quaint mental aberrations.

Alas for the reader who takes anything for a sign from God.


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 Anonymous
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27/12/2019 9:36 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

Alas for the reader who takes anything for a sign from God.

...interpret every phenomenon as a particular dealing of God with my soul

Alas for the Master of the Temple. 🤫 


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Shiva
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27/12/2019 10:07 pm  
Posted by: @mal

...interpret every phenomenon as a particular dealing of God with my soul

♫ Stretchin', I'm always stretchin'
the truth, just to be with you.

♫ Searchin', I'm always searchin'
for som'tin', as long as it's new.


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threefold31
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28/12/2019 1:02 am  
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff
Posted by: @threefold31
 
In the first example, 143 is the sum of the central column, and all the possible diagonals.
 
In the second example, the number 143 is the sum of the central row, and all the possible diagonals.

93, threefold31

You claim that all possible diagonals equal 143, so I checked it. I started with your second example, simply because it was more convenient to handle on a screen. There are 8 possible ways to start the diagonals, of these only 2 match 143. Even your second one (starting with 4) is not correct: at the end you jump to 1 instead of landing on 18...

Love=Law

Lutz

Dwtw

I should have been more explicit. The diagonals are selected in the manner of a magic square. Full diagonals go corner to corner. "Broken" diagonals also start on an edge, but continue back to the initial row(s), as if you had a series of magic squares laid consecutively.

In that regard, my example starting with 4 DOES have to resume with 1; imagine the same 5x13 rectangle is repeated below the one in the image, then the cell with 1 in it would come next. So that indeed sums to 143. Or imagine the same rectangle is placed to the right of it, the 4 would follow the 1.

So in either example, the 13 cells of all diagonals will make 143. It's just like a magic square method, but used on a rectangle.

Obviously the corner to corner diagonals equal 143, but so do all others, starting from either side. That's 26 diagonals for the 13x5 and 26 for the 5x13 arrays.

I hope this makes it clearer. It would be a bit tedious to display all 52 possible diagonals, but I think my examples prove the point, once you see how it's done. It's a very common method used by magic square enthusiasts.

Litlluw

RLG

 


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threefold31
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28/12/2019 1:07 am  
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff
Posted by: @threefold31
 
In the first example, 143 is the sum of the central column, and all the possible diagonals.
 
In the second example, the number 143 is the sum of the central row, and all the possible diagonals.

93, threefold31

You claim that all possible diagonals equal 143, so I checked it. I started with your second example, simply because it was more convenient to handle on a screen. There are 8 possible ways to start the diagonals, of these only 2 match 143. Even your second one (starting with 4) is not correct: at the end you jump to 1 instead of landing on 18...

Love=Law

Lutz

Dwtw

I should have been more explicit. The diagonals are selected in the manner of a magic square. Full diagonals go corner to corner. "Broken" diagonals also start on an edge, but continue back to the initial row(s), as if you had a series of magic squares laid consecutively.

In that regard, my example starting with 4 DOES have to resume with 1; imagine the same 5x13 rectangle is repeated below the one in the image, then the cell with 1 in it would come next. So that indeed sums to 143. Or imagine the same rectangle is placed to the right of it, the 4 would follow the 1.

So in either example, the 13 cells of all diagonals will make 143. It's just like a magic square method, but used on a rectangle.

Obviously the corner to corner diagonals equal 143, but so do all others, starting from either side. That's 26 diagonals for the 13x5 and 26 for the 5x13 arrays.

I hope this makes it clearer. It would be a bit tedious to display all 52 possible diagonals, but I think my examples prove the point, once you see how it's done. It's a very common method used by magic square enthusiasts.

Litlluw

RLG

 


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threefold31
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28/12/2019 1:16 am  

Dwtw

93 Lutz,

Another way to see the diagonals (and this works on either 5x13 or 13x5 arrays) is to start with the first example, corner to corner, going from 13 down to 9. That equals 143. Now take the whole leftmost column and move it all the way to the right hand end. Now do a corner to corner diagonal from the 12 down to the 21. This also equals 143. You can keep moving the leftmost column to the right until all 13 columns have been moved. In each case the diagonals equal 143. They HAVE TO equal 143, because the center row (or column) has that value, and the sheets are in an arithmetic progression.

Litlluw

RLG


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threefold31
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28/12/2019 3:21 am  

Dwtw

Thanks to Lutz for checking me on this. It turns out it is true that not all diagonals equal 143. The first and last few do, so I assumed they all did.

The actual count of 52 possible diagonals on the two grids is:

01 = 187

04 = 121

14 = 165

33 = 143

So that's about 64% of diagonals reaching the magic sum. That's actually even more interesting than if every one of them did. Trying to find a pattern is difficult but prima facie we can say that every sum is an odd multiple of 11. So 11 times 11, 13, 15 and 17 are represented, with by far the majority being 143.

The ratio is higher on the 5x13, where 18 of 26 sum to 143. On the 13x5 (the 'horizontal' one) the ratio is 15 of 26 that sum to 143. That's close enough to not show a statistical preference for one array over the other.

This has got me thinking whether these 33 sets of 13 integers have anything in common. If I find anything useful I will post it.

Thanks again Lutz!

Litlluw

RLG


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the_real_simon_iff
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28/12/2019 8:40 am  

93, threefold31.

Thanks for clearing that up. While I don't agree that 64% is actually more interesting than 100%, and I am also not really convinced that the number 143 is of such importance for the riddle, I think that I have "shown" that this 5x13 pattern couldn't by any stretch of imagination could possibly have to do anything with how the sheets were arranged before or at the time of writing. So while interesting (mathematically) I can't see anything of value to the riddle in this arrangement. Remember: the 5x13 layout was specifically chosen by herupakraath because of the pattern in its defects, which couldn't have been present in Cairo. Maybe some people will find that it is also a proof for Aiwass' supernatural powers to foresee that the manuscript will rebacked with linen one day in such an arrangement, but I am not one of them.

Of course, logic tells us that 5x13 is the only way to divide 65.

Love=Law

Lutz

P.S. I would be glad if you'd provide a little quick sketch of how your 52 diagonals have to look.


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 Anonymous
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28/12/2019 4:47 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @mal

...interpret every phenomenon as a particular dealing of God with my soul

♫ Stretchin', I'm always stretchin'
the truth, just to be with you.

♫ Searchin', I'm always searchin'
for som'tin', as long as it's new.

the Road to Ecstasy is one above thought, and when Ecstasy returns it is as a Grace


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Shiva
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28/12/2019 4:59 pm  
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Maybe some people will find that it is also a proof for Aiwass' supernatural powers ...

Not me. not yet. Maybe never.


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threefold31
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28/12/2019 5:19 pm  

Dwtw

You learn more from your mistakes than your successes. Realizing my error, I did a thorough investigation of the 5x13 and 13x5 arrays of the holograph ms sheets; here is what I found.

Each array has 26 sets of diagonals, each made up of a unique set of page numbers, among which are a pair of diagonals that contain the same page numbers in them, with a sum of 143. But, of these 13 page numbers, only 5 refer to the same holograph sheets, from the same chapters. Numbers in bold refer to these same pages.

5x13 array:

21 – 5 – 11 – 17 – 1 – 5 – 9 – 13 – 17 – 2 – 8 – 14 – 20

2 – 8 – 14 – 20 – 5 – 9 – 13 – 17 – 21 – 5 – 11 – 17 – 1

13x5 array

9 – 21 – 11 – 1 – 13 – 21 – 7 – 15 – 1 – 4 – 16 – 6 – 18

4 – 16 – 6 – 18 - 21 – 7 – 15 – 1 - 9 – 21 – 11 – 1 – 13 

image

What is noteworthy is that in both instances, the sum of the identical sheets is 55, and the non-identical sheets is 88. This is a 5/8 ratio, which is a Fibonacci pair. The famous Fibonacci sequence begins 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144. Thus, our special number 143 is one less than a Fibonacci number, and is also the sum of the first 11 of them. Instead of the classic pair of 55/89, in the diagonals we have the pair 55/88, which is as close as you can get if the goal is to sum to 143.

Now of the two sets of matching page numbers, there are 3 pages in common between the two arrays, one from each chapter: page 21 of Cap. I; page 11 of Cap. II; page 1 of Cap. III (these occur in sequence in the horizontal 13x5 array). The sum of these numbers is 21 + 11 + 1 = 33. This then creates the overall ratio of 33/55/88 in the diagonals, or 3/5/8, i.e., three successive Fibonacci numbers.

One takeaway is that the only pairs of diagonals with the same integers in them must include page 11 of Chapter 2 of the holograph in the center of the shared sequence. This is not too surprising, since page 11 is in fact the 33rd page overall, and is therefore the middle page of the 65 sheets, occupying the center of either array. But what is notable about the page is that it includes six verse numbers: 42 – 43 – 44 – 45 – 46 – 47, the sum of which is 267 = 3 x 89. Indeed, the center of the central page of both arrays contains the one instance where two consecutive integers (44 & 45) sum to 89 - the 11th Fibonacci number, the 24th prime number, and a prominent member of the Cipher of II:76. These two verses are the 110th and 111th verses overall, making them the central pair of the 220 verses of CCXX. They refer to a core concept of Liber AL; that after life is the dissolution (of the body of the King), while there is death for the dogs.

One of the other shared pages is Cap. I, page 21 (a Fibonacci number), which includes the exclamatory phrase “To Me! To Me!” (in fact, the term ‘to me’ occurs 5 times on this page). As Crowley noted, this could be seen in Greek as TO MH, meaning ‘The Not’; but it is also the Greek term ‘The Cut’, referring to the Golden Ratio, (specifically, where a line is ‘cut’ into two segments in Golden Ratio to each other). I need not expound on the affinity of the Fibonacci numbers with this ratio, found everywhere in nature, and now found directly in the pages of the holograph of Liber AL. But note especially that page 21 of Cap. I contains 89 words on the sheet, (there are no verse numbers), while the final shared sheet, page 1 of Cap. III contains 81 words and 8 verse numbers, for a total of 89.

Therefore, each of the three key pages has a reference to the number 89.

This is by no means an exhaustive analysis; there is much to be gleaned from the pages in question. But at the very least, it appears to show that Aiwass intended to hide references to the Golden Ratio in the sheets of the holograph ms of AL, expressed in the only possible rectangular arrangements of its 65 pages.

Litlluw

RLG

 

 

 

 


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the_real_simon_iff
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29/12/2019 12:46 am  

93, threefold31,

thanks for that again, but it all goes over my head a little. Would you agree that all of this is extremely off-topic in the sense that it has nothing to do with the inverted watermarks and the OP's conclusion that it is a proof for Aiwass' supernatural powers? I mean, this special 5x13 layout was intended to prove something about going on at the papermill and stuff that Aiwass couldn't know, but turned out to be (probably) just the way the manuscript has been laid out for the rebacking process (at least I have no other explanation that makes any sense). So is this really what is meant by "pasting the sheets"?

I don't think so.

Love=Law

Lutz


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threefold31
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29/12/2019 11:43 pm  

Dwtw,

Yes. I suppose at this point I should have started a different thread. Since I have nothing more to add on the page numbers, I'll return to the OP.

I think the elaborate reasoning employed in attempting to provide a rationale for sheets being inverted at a paper mill is too much special pleading. Even if such a thing were true, it would not require 'pasting the sheets' to point it out. One can simply show that some pages have reversed watermarks from the others. 

I confess I don't know for certain what 'paste the sheets' was supposed to reveal, but I don't think the watermarks were involved. Paste the sheets could even be applied to the sheets individually, rather than as a whole. The word paste comes from Greek pasth, meaning porridge, from pastos, meaning 'sprinkled'. I think it had something to do with putting raisins in it to make it sweeter.

Litlluw

RLG


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threefold31
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30/12/2019 1:57 pm  

Dwtw,

I had a chance to look up this etymology, and it appears that the 'sprinkling' of paste involved salting it. Makes sense, (especially if you're a Scot who likes salt on their oatmeal). And now that salt is involved, it opens the door to alchemy 😁

I'm also tempted to amend the phrase from Crowleys Star-Sponge vision: Nothingness...with sprinkles!

Litlluw

RLG


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wellreadwellbred
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30/12/2019 2:11 pm  

threefold31: "Indeed. As I showed a while ago on these fora, interpreting the Cipher via the Greek alphabet can reduce it to the word ON. But that's too easy, isn't it?"

"the word ON" in what language? And what is the meaning of said word with respect to AC's The Book of the Law?


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herupakraath
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30/12/2019 5:22 pm  
Posted by: @threefold31

I confess I don't know for certain what 'paste the sheets' was supposed to reveal,

Don't sell yourself short:

Paste the sheets from right to left = 172
and from top to bottom: then behold! = 195

The values are two of the row sums produced within the horizontal configuration of sheet numbers. If you start a thread on the subject, I'll contribute.

 


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ignant666
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30/12/2019 5:45 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath

The values are two of the row sums produced within the horizontal configuration of sheet numbers.

I hope it will discuss the significance of the fact that these verses do not (according to your enumeration) add up to the previously important 143, or to 91 or 136 either.

What, in your view, is the significance of the fact that these two verses add up to two of the five "row values" you identify?

Without a good clear explanation to the above, this appears to be an exhibition of Texas Sharpshooting.

Hoping (with wrwb) to soon learn the significance of "ON".

This Word is an anagram of "NO"; a wise sage once counseled "Just Say 'NO!'".


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Shiva
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30/12/2019 7:11 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

Hoping (with wrwb) to soon learn the significance of "ON".

ON is the Word (password, secret word) of the Minerval degree (Zero by number).

ON was the ancient name of the little community where the Phoenix set up his/her bonfire, later changed to Heliopolis, the City of the Sun. AC stayed at hotels in Heliopolis.

ON = 120 = the number of living years of Christian Rossencreuz.

Taken by itself, ON = 120, can open a box of significance. Taken in context with this muddled, multi-numbered thread, I cannot allocate any significance to anything whatsoever.


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Jamie J Barter
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31/12/2019 12:30 am  
Posted by: @shiva

ON is the Word (password, secret word) of the Minerval degree (Zero by number).

Like AC with Reuss and The Book of Lies, you have apparently inadvertently chosen to Reveal the ultimate secret (Word) of the OTO (one of them, anyway), in the manner that the O.H.O. may be chosen from among the lowly ranks of a Minerval or Malkuth may be found in Kether (but after another manner).

(I fear I may have already said too much...)

N Joy


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Shiva
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31/12/2019 2:35 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

you have apparently inadvertently chosen to Reveal

King, Francis X. The Secret Rituals of the OTO. Minerval degree.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

the O.H.O. may be chosen from among the lowly ranks of a Minerval or Malkuth may be found in Kether (but after another manner).

Loopholes, loopholes, everywhere!  The next thing you'll be saying is, "Any person whomsoever may claim the title of Master of the Temple simply by taking the Oath of that Grade."

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

I fear I may have already said too much...

No, no, don't be silly. We need to ass-es every loophole available. Otherwise, how will we, or anyone, get to the other side?

Surely not by doing the Work?


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 Anonymous
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31/12/2019 11:16 am  

ON Samekh Section G

AD-ON-A-I*

“My Lord! My secret self beyond self, Hadit, All-Father! Hail, ON, thou Sun, thou Life of Man, thou Fivefold Sword of Flame! Thou Goat exalted upon Earth in Lust, thou Snake extended upon Earth in Life! Spirit most holy! Seed most wise! Innocent Babe! Inviolate Maid! Begetter of Being! Light of Life, Love and Liberty! Soul of all Souls! Word of all Words! Come forth, most hidden Light!”

note

*In Hebrew, ADNI, 65. The Gnostic Initiates transliterated it to imply their own secret formulæ; we follow so excellent an example. ON is an Arcanum of Arcana; its significance is taught, gradually, in the O.T.O. Also AD is the paternal formula, Hadit; ON is its complement, NUIT; the final yod signifies “mine” etymologically, and essentially the Mercurial (transmitted) hermaphroditic virginal seed—“The Hermit” of the Tarot. The use of the Name is therefore to invoke one’s own imost secrecy, considered as the result of the conjunction of Nuit and Hadit. If the second A is included, its import is to affirm the Operation of the Holy Ghost, and the formulation of the Babe in the Egg, which precedes the appearance of the Hermit.

Undoubtedly more to be found in the mass of Thelemic work.


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