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The Underground Spirit


EpsilonPiEta
(@epsilonpieta)
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I recently listened to a Podcast titled: “The Underground Spirit”, by Darryl Cooper. This Podcast was very well done and Cooper is a talented analyst and orator. In the Podcast he discussed Nietzsche and Dostoevsky as a backdrop for a deeper discussion on Narcissism. I would encourage you to listen to this podcast before proceeding. It’s like five hours long, so hopefully you have a long commute to listen?

To put my conclusion right up front, narcissism (the way Cooper describes narcissism) is roughly equivalent to the occult world’s understanding of the “Black Brother”. I think we can learn a lot about this concept and possibly ourselves if we ponder the idea of narcissism from two possible perspectives: “ego” and “self”.

According to Cooper, Dostoevsky's conception of a narcissist was encapsulated in his idea of an “underground man” (others have probably reached this conclusion too). This idea of an “underground man” to me seems like it includes an acceptance that knowledge/intellect isn’t a “cause” i.e. Intellect/ego lacks Will. This realization (rejection of intellect) naturally leads to nihilism and hopefully the long climb out of the hole to find “true will”. (<- whatever that is.) Not every underground man comes to the Occult for these answers. None the less, here we are at the watering hole of the abyss.

It’s the desire to “penetrate the mysteries” through the acquisition of knowledge and experience that we eventually “forget ourself” and climb out of the hole ... or not. The results of this process can get shared with humanity through the writings of philosophers and their ilk. But sometimes these people on this path are called “black brothers” because they are still feeding their intellect/ego and their “sharing” merely feeds this shadow self. A vicious cycle ‘made god’. I would like to propose one path out of this labyrinth.

 

There is only one thing that the eye cannot see ... itself ...

because it is the thing that sees.

There is only one thing that the “self” cannot experience,

itself” ... because it is the thing that experiences.

 

While starting to realize the “truth” of the above, I am starting to look for “self” (or Soul) more in those around me. My approach is still intellectual in some ways, but I’m trying more and more to “forget the reason” ... ‘a curse upon because’. There are two type of reasoning, inductive and deductive. This is a weird ‘boot-strapping’ exercise of inductive reasoning, but for some this might be helpful. Stop looking for self inside and instead, start looking for evidence of self in those around you… and then forget why you started this crazy abyss gazing exercise to begin with and just ‘go’.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posted by: @epsilonpieta

It’s like five hours long ...

[much laughter]

 


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hadgigegenraum
(@hadgigegenraum)
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Thanks for what is an interesting topic!

First, having some background in both Nietzsche and Dostoyevsky, and without having heard the podcast, I will say that your conclusion, making a link between "narcissism" and the "Black Brother" is an important observation, and relevant basis for your thesis.

Yes Crowley's maxim "get out" might get simply translated relative to your thesis to stop be obsessed with one's own navel, less it become a great pit...

It is said someone was hung for such a preaching...

Relative to this you might want to consider Rudolf Steiner's work, and where beyond induction and deduction, our will, is united with thought through moral intuition and inspiration, and thus the source of freedom is found within our hearts, our love.

Narcissism can be explained as a weakness, a weakness that both Nietzsche and Dostoyevsky recognized in man and sought to overcome, a weakness cultivated in society and where it was in the outcast souls that something else was given.

Occultism seeks to open trails to other worlds, it breaks boundaries, it can infer power and also serve to further entrench and feed the neurosis...

 

 


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EpsilonPiEta
(@epsilonpieta)
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@hadgigegenraum and Shiva

Thanks for the replies.  I know my writing style comes across as critical and often times affected, I just hope some will see the spirit I’m trying to express in there.  I too love Nietzsche and Dostoevsky and have read almost all of their books, but I’m not a philosophy professor. That podcast cut me to the bone, and it might cut you too if you can find the time to listen with an open heart. It might afford you an opportunity to contemplate some of your life decisions. It’s interesting to note how many “underground men” ended up their lives addicted and destitute. AC was not immune to this fate.  Maybe it was because they were missing something?

 

Mountain climbers will tell you that getting to the top of the mountain is only half the journey. I would submit that getting to the top of the tree of life, is also only half the journey. Finding the center is the other half… and then forgetting everything and just living completes the cycle. By this standard, I wonder how well AC fared. Are we allowed to criticize our heroes here?

 

What is true will really about? Doesn’t it start with a rejection of everything that is not true will? Which is everything initially. This can be a tough wilderness to find your way out of. A ‘black brother’ is someone afraid of crossing, i.e. finding the top, because we can’t take anything with us across that desert and we can’t give up some things. Why have some of our heroes never learned how to just live joyfully? Every man and every woman is a star and shouldn’t finding the center be part of the final solution? I know that Love and Will radiate as Joy from the center.  This is what I'm trying rather unsuccessfully to express.


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hadgigegenraum
(@hadgigegenraum)
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@epsilonpieta 

I think you are diving into, exploring and thinking about is very important...and your critique of a mono directional, achievement oriented approach to a construct, the tree of life, is relevant and one that in some ways was exploded by Frater Achad's starting again at the very beginning...after the asset...plus his Anatomy of the Body of God illustrates what is better understood as something fractal and holographic.

Yes I would say that occultism has its traps, and thus your knowing that "Love and Will radiate as Joy from the center" is a Joyous Science if I might borrow Nietzsche's title.

 


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katrice
(@katrice)
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Posted by: @epsilonpieta

But sometimes these people on this path are called “black brothers” because they are still feeding their intellect/ego and their “sharing” merely feeds this shadow self. A vicious cycle ‘made god’. I

We talked about this on both of the threads I started here, using E.A. Koetting's BALG group as an example of willing Black Brothers, which tends to be a common, though not universal element among the Immanent branch of the LHP, though it also appears among some followers of the Transcendent branch as well.  One could argue that darker groups like the O9A and its related organizations are all about feeding the shadow self, though I think that they're more like occult cosplay for sociopaths.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Posted by: @katrice

occult cosplay for sociopaths.

My next band name 🙂


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