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dom
 dom
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21/03/2020 11:12 am  

On these lines in AL;

 

59. Beware therefore! Love all, lest perchance is a King concealed! Say you so? Fool! If he be a King, thou canst not hurt him.
60. Therefore strike hard & low, and to hell with them, master!

 

Crowley basically wanted to eliminate/readdress the traditional Western  concept of Hell and he seemed to think that Hell arose in Western culture when the respect for the inner animal was lost ie when contest, competition and conflict were shunned and replaced with revenge, petty jealousy and resentments.    It is only the human animal that may experience grievance and humiliation.  Domination and submission in the animal kingdom is purely mechanical and  functional.  A nerd tries to chat up the quarter back's girl and he may get beaten, humiliated and then goes to the store, buys a gun and shoots up the whole school.   This is not what the New Aeon is about. 

 

Did modern American culture (although 'christian' and pious on the surface) reintroduce this competitiveness and hatred for the weak and nerdy?

 

From the old comment;

2:60. Hit out indiscriminately therefore. The fittest will survive.
This doctrine is therefore contrary to that of Gallio, or of Buddha.

Kill 'em all and let Gods sort them out? Well, not exactly 'kill' and not even necessarily physically hurt but certainly words/curses  (sonic) vibration that'll stick and perhaps send the intended protagonist to his own Hell of awkwardness and humilliation if he doesn't have the amoral competitive spirit.     Fool! If he be a King, thou canst not hurt him. 

From the new comment (summarised);

The Christians to the Lions!

Is this a call to bring back extreme Pagan-competitiveness/ capital punishment i.e. the circus maximus?  Not necessarily or maybe you think it does.   It certainly calls for a reevaluation of Western culture.

, one cannot say that one has perfectly attained to love or hate until the object of that passion is assimilated.

I guess this means neutralization of all opinion.

The word “hell” is significant in this connection. Our (Thelemite) Law knows nothing of punishment beyond that imposed by ignorance and awkwardness on their possessor. The word 'hell' must therefore be explained in terms neither of virile vulgarity, or theological blackmail.

Rambling aside that is a sound fact ie Old Aeon 'Hell' which is a Catholic-Protestant technology must be discarded as it is rather a state of mind or a culture of shunning competitiveness and conflict.

“O my Son, how wonderful is the Wisdom of this Law of Love! How vast are the Oceans of uncharted Joy that lie before the Keel of thy Ship! Yet know this, that every Opposition is in its Nature named Sorrow, and the Joy lieth in the Destruction of the Dyad.

 

Therefore must thou seek ever those Things which are to thee poisonous, and that in the highest Degree, and make them thine by Love.

That which repels,

that which disgusts,

must thou assimilate in this Way of Wholeness.

So then the Life of Non-action is not for thee; the Withdrawal from Activity is not the Way 

The enemy (devil) is basically a weak-stomach and/or a knee-jerk reaction and a sensitive ego. In the absence of devil we are in this aeon given (Self) licence to be assholes to each other, to be nasty and potentially (ego-) hurtful..... or are we?

 

He goes on quoting from his conversations with Achad;

“De Inferno Palatio Sapientiae..
“Now then thou seest that this Hell, or concealed Place within thee, is..... the Treasure-House of the Assimilated Wisdom of the Ages, and the Knowledge of the True Way. Thus are we Just and Wise to discover this Secret in Ourselves, and to conform the conscious Mind therewith.……...

De Vitiis Voluntatis Secretae.
“Learn moreover concerning this Hell, or Hidden Wisdom, that is within thee, that……., there lieth therein a Faculty of Balance, whereby it is able to judge whether any Element in itself is presently useful and benign, or idle and malignant. Here then is a Root of Conflict between the Conscious and the Unconscious, and a Debate concerning the right Order of Conduct, how the Will may be accomplished”.

 

Note though that when e.g. Regardie called out AC's bisexuality in that letter 'Dear Alice yoiu are such a bitch" etc Crowley was launched into his own Hell of humiliation, revenge and resentment.    There seems to be a series of similar incidents where AC did not practice what he preaches here in the comments.  

 


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Tiger
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21/03/2020 12:55 pm  

Learn moreover concerning this Hell, or Hidden Wisdom, that is within thee, that……., there lieth therein a Faculty of Balance, whereby it is able to judge whether any Element in itself is presently useful and benign, or idle and malignant. Here then is a Root of Conflict between the Conscious and the Unconscious, and a Debate concerning the right Order of Conduct, how the Will may be accomplished”.

LAMED 30 Ox-Goad
The Sword of Ma’at
The balances of the sphere’s and the weighing of the universe charnel Burning Ground.


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dom
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21/03/2020 8:03 pm  

@tiger

Yes the two lines in question re OP are Geburah-Lamed involved.  


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dom
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23/03/2020 1:39 pm  

Looks like this is my blog.   I was expecting a fascinating 20 page thread on the re-evaluation of Western values and the role of AC and AL therein.   


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Shiva
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23/03/2020 3:49 pm  
Posted by: @dom

I was expecting a fascinating 20 page thread ...

Expectation precedeth a long Blog. Expect him not from the east or from any known thread ...


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The HGA of a Duck
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23/03/2020 5:01 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Looks like this is my blog.   I was expecting a fascinating 20 page thread

I'll give it a proper reply soon, a lot of other stuff to catch up on and this one will require extra "brain-power" for me to give a decent reply.


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𝓍ᴼᑎ
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23/03/2020 6:19 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Therefore must thou seek ever those Things which are to thee poisonous, and that in the highest Degree, and make them thine by Love.

That which repels,

that which disgusts,

must thou assimilate in this Way of Wholeness.

So then the Life of Non-action is not for thee; the Withdrawal from Activity is not the Way 

The enemy (devil) is basically a weak-stomach and/or a knee-jerk reaction and a sensitive ego. In the absence of devil we are in this aeon given (Self) licence to be assholes to each other, to be nasty and potentially (ego-) hurtful..... or are we?

This reads to me that the ability to assimilate information and learn to love in the highest Degree is the Way of Wholeness. It's an advisory not to cling to prejudices that withdraw the mind into knee-jerk reactions and nastiness.

 

Be not animal; refine thy rapture!

modesty may well cooperate with ambition; but also it may thwart it. This verse counsels us to train our passions to the highest degree of efficiency. Each is to acquire the utmost strength and intelligence; but all are equally to contribute their quota towards the success of the campaign. - New Comment

 

Posted by: @dom

2:60. Hit out indiscriminately therefore. The fittest will survive.
This doctrine is therefore contrary to that of Gallio, or of Buddha.

Kill 'em all and let Gods sort them out? Well, not exactly 'kill' and not even necessarily physically hurt

If violent threats are made which may harm people uninvolved with the confrontation then silence, for their safety, would be necessary even if the one in confrontation isn't intimidated.

Posted by: @dom

amoral competitive spirit.

“Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

 

♪... don't you forget about me ... ♫


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Shiva
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23/03/2020 7:43 pm  
Posted by: @xon

Be not animal; refine thy rapture!

I have always considered this concept to be interpreted (by me) as:

Gain control over every aspect of your Id.

Anyone who does this could be considered a Master of his or her Temple (vehicle). Setting aside Biblical prophecies of one or more Beasts in the Revel of Saint Juan, one could almost see this reflected in TO MEGA THERION ... but probably not in the demon Crowley (unless he was operating in that realm in any given moment).

Posted by: @xon

“Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

"Argue not. Convert not." and Don't talk a lot in public about this stuff. Come to LAShTAL where some people talk overmuch, including me.

 


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christibrany
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23/03/2020 10:37 pm  

@Shiva

 

Seeing as AC most definitely did not gain control over every aspect of his Id (extreme substance craving under the excuse of religious/spiritual practise and obsession with sex), was most definitely not an Ipsissimus, what grade do you reckon he actually got to? 

 

'...refine they rapture' 

I think this is a lofty goal but I don't know if anyone can ever attain it.  We are all and always part animal, part angel. 


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dom
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23/03/2020 11:31 pm  

@xon

 

This reads to me that the ability to assimilate information and learn to love in the highest Degree is the Way of Wholeness

 

To 'love' who?  


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𝓍ᴼᑎ
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24/03/2020 12:58 am  
Posted by: @shiva

"Argue not. Convert not." and Don't talk a lot in public about this stuff. Come to LAShTAL where some people talk overmuch, including me.

Yup. Continual effort.
 
Strive ever to more!
 
There is no end to the Path – death crowns all.- Old Comment
 

Evolution works by variation. When an animal develops one part of itself beyond the others, it infringes the norm of its type. At first this effort is made at the expense of other efforts, and it seems as if, the general balance being upset, the Nature were in danger. (It must obviously appear so to the casual observer – who probably reproaches and persecutes the experimenter). - New Comment

 
In some cases Biblical wisdom found in the likes of Proverbs 26 comes immediately to mind.
 
Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
    or you yourself will be just like him.
 
11 As a dog returns to its vomit,
    so fools repeat their folly.
 

13 A sluggard says, “There’s a lion in the road,
    a fierce lion roaming the streets!”

16 A sluggard is wiser in his own eyes
    than seven people who answer discreetly.

17 Like one who grabs a stray dog by the ears
    is someone who rushes into a quarrel not their own.

18 Like a maniac shooting
    flaming arrows of death
19 is one who deceives their neighbor
    and says, “I was only joking!”

 
 
Posted by: @dom

To 'love' who? 

👇🏽

Posted by: @dom

those Things which are to thee poisonous

 

 

♪... don't you forget about me ... ♫


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dom
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24/03/2020 1:07 am  

Seeing as AC most definitely did not gain control over every aspect of his Id (extreme substance craving under the excuse of religious/spiritual practise and obsession with sex), was most definitely not an Ipsissimus, what grade do you reckon he actually got to?

@christibrany

How do we know that Zoroaster, Lao Tze or Buddha weren't also e.g. assholes and addicts?  They are elevated as ethereal perfect moral beings by their modern followers.   The facts are lost to history. 

 

@all

 

Could posters maybe address my specific questions in the OP?  

 


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Shiva
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24/03/2020 5:59 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

what grade do you reckon he actually got to? 

I see no reason why he didn't go out the top of the Tree. We don't know that he couldn't exercise control over his id and then enter samadhi. And when that wore off, the Id Crowley popped back up. Anyone's grade level cannot be judged by the actions of ego or id when they're running around in daily life ... or staying isolated at home.

As it is written (somewhere): "Just judge 'em by their fruits."

I believe we, the product of his Libers (and I certainly hope not his daily persona), have plenty of fruits to go around ... all derived from AC's "Better Self."

Posted by: @dom

To 'love' who?

All things. It's in the Oath. The Oath is nothing more than an affirmation to attain samadhi. In samadhi, one is whoever or whatever is close enough to be in one's field of perception. I have never seen it as "learning to love," as realizing that Joe Blow is me, and of course I only want the best for him.

Posted by: @dom

Could posters maybe address my specific questions in the OP?

The Last Line of the longest OP in history sez ...

Posted by: @dom

There seems to be a series of similar incidents where AC did not practice what he preaches here in the comments.

Oh, you noticed? There are historical accounts of Tibetan holy men who dressed in rags, ate with the dogs, drank alcohol from a jug, used potty-moth lingo, and were rude to strangers. Yet when some stranger got on the right frequency with the hobo holy man, that yogi was able to transmit higher levels of consciousness to said stranger (who had obviously passed some test of revulsion), who obviously was accepted as a Chela.

Since this is the forum of the AC Society, it is not deviant (much) to probe into the fads and follies of the man who walked around and needed to eat, like all of us. The docs got him started on the hard drugs for his asthma. Hi-grade medical stuff. Very addicting. Very hard to pull away. Seemingly impossible after several years. Over-sexed and multi-sexed and "Let's mix sex with religion?"  Yes.

I again wish to point out the distinction between the Demon Crowley and Frater Perdurabo (plus all his higher designations). One was the pioneer. He used 1st ray energy (which is destructive in its initial impact) to essentially declare war on every religion and philosophy (except Taoism) in sight and over the hill. Certain authors were folded into his "new" presentation. He wrote a bunch of formal, how-to-do-it Libers available. He proclaimed a new age, and a new age came rolling it. Welcome to today. It's still rolling on ...

I was speaking of Perdurabo. Now, while all this (above) is going on, we find the demon Crowley, if we are to trust the historical scripts, was getting into the most bizarre series of scraps. The Battle of Blythe Road. Mountain climbing deaths. Shooting a brigand in India and escaping to "walk across China." Asthma and growing drug dependency. Maybe a spook. All interlaced with sex.

But, as the man himself said, "Who is to tell which is Frater Perdurabo, and which the demon Crowley?" [paraphrased from a dim memory bank]

Every person that I have ever met who demonstrated some sort of serious attainment also had a "problematic" side. In some circles, it is admitted that no human can be enlightened.

Crowley did not practice what he preached. Or did he? I only saw a quote about "Loving All." What about "Drag down their souls to torment?" This was also part of his preaching, certainly not one of his main points, but certainly part of the way he acted when somebody crossed him.

 

 


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ignant666
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24/03/2020 10:27 am  
Posted by: @shiva

As it is written (somewhere): "Just judge 'em by their fruits."

I believe we, the product of his Libers (and I certainly hope not his daily persona), have plenty of fruits to go around ... all derived from AC's "Better Self."

So we should enjoy the fruits of his Libers, then?


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dom
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24/03/2020 11:09 am  

@shiva

Oh, you noticed? There are historical accounts of Tibetan holy men who dressed in rags, ate with the dogs, drank alcohol from a jug, used potty-moth lingo, and were rude to strangers. Yet when some stranger got on the right frequency with the hobo holy man, that yogi was able to transmit higher levels of consciousness to said stranger (who had obviously passed some test of revulsion), who obviously was accepted as a Chela.

Yes this is the media age where for the first time information about a particular Word of the Aeon person has been documented fully.  There was no 55 chapters published of The confessions of Siddartha by the man himself or Christ, in my own words (Bethlehem to Golgotha).  Maybe Christ had a personality like Gordon Ramsay or son on but it was edited out.      


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christibrany
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24/03/2020 3:51 pm  

@shiva

 

 

That dovetails with what I think too.

 

I forget where I posted it but I said something like 'adepts may reach a certain grade up on the Tree, but that doesn't mean that they won't be bouncing back down and around as they move back into their normal consciousness, being silly' 

something like that.

I do think there is a possibility for certain people to use certain spiritual excuses to do what they want. But that's been over ad nauseum.  By Crowley too.

 

@Dom

Posted by: @dom

Maybe Christ had a personality like Gordon Ramsay or son on but it was edited out.      

 

That would have been amazing. I would pay to see that. Me and the missus love Gordon but sometimes we think he is on too much blow or something.  There are energetic men, and then there are...Gordon Ramsays. 

 


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dom
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24/03/2020 3:54 pm  

Yeah the only time Christ was Ramsified was when he saw the gamblers in the temple haha. 


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christibrany
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24/03/2020 4:08 pm  

And Jesus said:

'Wuts this all about then? Muckin' about with money yeh? Can't fokkin hav that kin we?' *smash*


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Shiva
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24/03/2020 4:11 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

So we should enjoy the fruits of his Libers, then?

There is absolutely no need to get paradoxical with me. I shall expound it:

There are sweet fruits and bitter fruits. Choose you well.

 


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dom
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24/03/2020 5:43 pm  

@christibrany

 

'Wuts this all about then? Muckin' about with money yeh? Can't fokkin hav that kin we?' *smash*

 

More like "What?!  You, you and you...F___   OFF!!!"  ha. 


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Tiger
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24/03/2020 5:54 pm  

The freedom to explore sex for purposes other than procreation;leaving no stone unturned being as God. Only the wicked would project such a thing as a demon involved.
my Gosh


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christibrany
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24/03/2020 8:28 pm  

@Dom

 

Jesus is much nicer to his disciples on English TV than on American TV I've noticed.   

Probably Jehova wanting to boost the ratings. 


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dom
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24/03/2020 9:01 pm  

@christibrany

 

I forget where I posted it but I said something like 'adepts may reach a certain grade up on the Tree, but that doesn't mean that they won't be bouncing back down and around as they move back into their normal consciousness, being silly'
something like that.

 

They say that Buddha sometimes just wouldn't answer people's questions. 


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