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MoogPlayer
(@moogplayer)
Member
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 86
05/07/2018 9:24 pm  

Incidentally Los and Erwin never bothered to experiment with the yogic practices that AC recommended.

How do you know? People have been doing yoga for a long time now, if it were possible that people could levitate you'd think that it would be well documented by now. Same goes for your claim that there might be something to astrology. It's not hard to test these claims.


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arthuremerson
(@arthuremerson)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 157
05/07/2018 10:00 pm  

@ignant

Yes, arthur, it is indeed remarkable how utterly ignorant these self-styled apostles of “science” are about actual science, just as it is impressive how utterly incapable of formulating coherent logical arguments they are, in that they fancy themselves to be beacons of reason illuminating our superstitious darkness.

Perhaps somewhere there is an advocate of “Skeptical Thelema” who is able to do something besides demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect in action?

Or perhaps not.

The grade work of the order D∴K∴ seems finely tuned to accept and retain only those with the above qualities. Efficiency, I take it, is not always a virtue.


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 3113
05/07/2018 10:10 pm  

the order D∴K∴

Thank you so much, arthur, for this very useful formulation, which explains so much.

It turns out that The Great And Powerful Los' 8=3 "attainment" may be in the order you mention, and thus may not be not the claim of A.'. A.'. attainment that we have devoted 44 pages to interrogating after all.

Silly us!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
05/07/2018 10:47 pm  

Moogplayer How do you know? People have been doing yoga for a long time now, if it were possible that people could levitate you’d think that it would be well documented by now.

I doubt it would be well documented when there is people to say they are insane, it's crazy and can't happen... if it was me I would just do and leave the naysayers in their bubble of illusion and have my fun exploring the limits or limitless without the negative to drag one down to earth


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dom
 dom
(@dom)
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Posts: 2309
06/07/2018 12:37 am  

How do you know? People have been doing yoga for a long time now, if it were possible that people could levitate you’d think that it would be well documented by now. Same goes for your claim that there might be something to astrology. It’s not hard to test these claims.

When Jim says he believes in levitation I am sure that he is open to the possibility that it is a brain-warping experience brought on by unusual extensive pranayama in asana. I don't know of many "religionist" cult leaders who quote AC's "It is immaterial whether these things exist or not for by doing certain things certain things happen".

I have had a fair amount of data available on planetary movements and correlated events in my existence. The scientific community is not open enough to bother with such data. AC said something like astrology is 1% accurate however he used astrology to predict the very hour of Lovedays passing. A typical juggling by AC of the disparate elements of faith and analysis. It's worth looking at imo. Apparently cops all over the world know to expect more criminal behaviour during a full Moon. Maybe alchemist Isaac Newton would have had something to say about that also?

I'm glad you brought in the example of Los's general critique of Jim Eshelman's writings as, imo, it is a good example of what Arthur has called the battering of the low hanging fruit found in Los's essays.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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dom
 dom
(@dom)
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06/07/2018 1:42 am  

@arthuremerson

Arthur your email i.e. your forum name @ theborg seems to be bouncing. Is it forum name@theborg.com?

Thanks.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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arthuremerson
(@arthuremerson)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 157
06/07/2018 1:55 am  

David,

Sorry, by @theborg I meant google's gmail.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
06/07/2018 2:09 am  

Dom

Hello from from QLD *waves

I am one for watching what is going on upstairs with Astrology. In my opinion, Crowley had made changes that he didn't publish to the masses and using the really real would have had the book of life open to see events and happenings.

If as above so below, then is just a matter of finding the keys

as for the police with the full moon .. that is a big yes.. Queensland police roster extra officers on for the full moon with good reason luna = lunacy

at the moment 12 kids trapped underground in thailand and then in india 11 dying in a fire ??

fascinating month up there for July https://www.space.com/16149-night-sky.html
https://www.space.com/32286-space-calendar.html

June was awesome with the solstice.

For example at present Vesta .. the asteroid with the visible yellow pink colours.... and two awesome eclipses coming up

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/06/skywatching-guide-june-solstice-saturn-moon-space-science/

also this is magik
https://www.space.com/41084-jupiter-moons-intricate-aurora-footprints.html?utm_source=notification


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4948
06/07/2018 5:39 pm  

Moog: the current model of scientific investigation supports this naturalistic view of reality. It has produced results consistent with this model.

Why, yes. Moder Science is wonderful. It has created an etheric, electromagnetic communication system known as the Borg that allows control of the masses. Instead of doing their pranayama and banishings (not necessarily in that order), they sit/stand/walk while endlessly communicating with their peers and sometimes with real adepts, and sometimes with the mentally disturbed.

However, you are correct. Modern Science has brought us first-worlders (including the godless Chinese) into a lifestyle that actually allows a lot of leisure time (which is supposed to be filled with efforts to reach the Holistic neurocircuit at Tiphereth (Angel time), but instead is often devoted to beer, football games, and writing nonsense on forums).

Modern science has discovered antibiotics. We are now nearing the end of the antibiotic era, because faster and faster the bugs are becoming immune to the dreaded medicine and happily reproducing to the point of death.

"Two girls for every boy."
Two sides to every coin.

Moog: I would disagree with you and comment that the burden of proof is on the people who claim that there is something else to this universe besides the material and the naturalistic explanation of it.

And there perish with the dogs of reason.
"Success is thy proof."

Moog: The idea that we live in a material universe can be falsified. But it is the best explanation we have for the reality we are living in.

[Not proofread or edited. Take it or leave it]

True. We must not lose sight of the hard world (except in trances like samadhi, where the dense realm disappears, and then we return with strange ideas). If our strange ideas WORK, then that is success. If they DON'T WORK, then it's airheaded wishful thinking ... or insanity in one of its many forms.

It is noted that you have set the record for the most edits in a post. See this

This reply was modified 19 hours, 46 minutes ago by MoogPlayer.
This reply was modified 19 hours, 45 minutes ago by MoogPlayer.
This reply was modified 19 hours, 44 minutes ago by MoogPlayer.
This reply was modified 19 hours, 41 minutes ago by MoogPlayer.
This reply was modified 19 hours, 36 minutes ago by MoogPlayer.
This reply was modified 19 hours, 35 minutes ago by MoogPlayer.
This reply was modified 19 hours, 30 minutes ago by MoogPlayer.
This reply was modified 19 hours, 25 minutes ago by MoogPlayer. Reason: Typing on iPad
:
Although editing to correct spelling and grammar is appreciated (I am getting too old to carefully assess and modify my words, so I am a sinner), EIGHT edits is PROOF POSITIVE of a mentat struggling to match his wits against non-rational approaches.

Arthur: everything can be explained by a first-order reduction to material substance/causation. Unfortunately there are deep problems for this kind of view.

Yeah, the deepest problem is the Pit called Because/ "Also, reason is a lie, for there is a factor infinite and unknown." People who WORK WITH this factor are abhorred by the mundane, terra-bound explainers.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4948
06/07/2018 6:01 pm  

Dom: The guy who started Thelema said he was Levi in a past life. How about that?
Same guy said Aiwass dictated a book to him and that an entity known as Lam contacted him. He also claimed that he helped Nueberg to become possessed by Mercury Himself and so on and so forth. Jim is a reasonably educated and open minded guy
.

Well, that's it! We need to shut down the forum and get to work digging holes in the Earth so we can spend all our time anal-izing matter.

Moog: The same guy was also a drug addict and a con artist. Also could have been insane. Is Crowley some kind of authority now?

O.M. was the "authority." He was a petty cool Chesedian. The drug-fiend demon Crowley becomes more obvious as we progress. AC himself wrote: "But which is Frater Perdurabo and which is the demon Crowley." (paraphrased).

Mayet: Queensland police roster extra officers on for the full moon with good reason luna = lunacy.

Emergency rooms everywhere experience surges during full moon perios. Patients undergoing surgery during a full moon experience extravasation (bleeding) more profoundly, and are more likely to die dead.

Arthur: @theborg I meant google’s gmail.

G Google IS the BorG G

.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4948
06/07/2018 6:02 pm  

Dom: The guy who started Thelema said he was Levi in a past life. How about that?
Same guy said Aiwass dictated a book to him and that an entity known as Lam contacted him. He also claimed that he helped Nueberg to become possessed by Mercury Himself and so on and so forth. Jim is a reasonably educated and open minded guy
.

Well, that's it! We need to shut down the forum and get to work digging holes in the Earth so we can spend all our time anal-izing matter.

Moog: The same guy was also a drug addict and a con artist. Also could have been insane. Is Crowley some kind of authority now?

O.M. was the "authority." He was a petty cool Chesedian. The drug-fiend demon Crowley becomes more obvious as we progress. AC himself wrote: "But which is Frater Perdurabo and which is the demon Crowley." (paraphrased).

Mayet: Queensland police roster extra officers on for the full moon with good reason luna = lunacy.

Emergency rooms everywhere experience surges during full moon perios. Patients undergoing surgery during a full moon experience extravasation (bleeding) more profoundly, and are more likely to die dead.

Arthur: @theborg I meant google’s gmail.

Google IS the BorG.

.


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 3113
07/07/2018 12:15 am  

What has happened to our good friend moogplayer, erstwhile doughty defender of furniture-cultist The Great And Powerful Los, 8=3 D.'. K.'.?

Surely he has not become discouraged when his attempted appeal to the authority of "science" failed so badly?

Possibly he is busy reviewing The Amazing Randi videos looking for tips on who this Karl Popper character even is?


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 3113
07/07/2018 4:26 pm  

While we are waiting for moogplayer, it seems the kids over at reddit don't take the Los-Bot's "8=3" claim any more seriously than folks here do:

https://www.reddit.com/r/thelema/comments/8tputv/discussion_83_theses/

One revelation is that he has been "studying and practicing Thelema" for, gasp, 17 whole years! The mind boggles at such long-term study and devotion! No wonder he is a Magister Templi!

Another bit of involuntary humor comes in his recommendation that one should have a good liberal arts education and a broad general knowledge of science before studying Thelema. Why, yes, that would be a good idea! One more time: "Holy Dunning-Kruger effect, Batman!"


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 4021
07/07/2018 5:57 pm  

@ignant666

Thanks for posting this. I'll take a look at the comments a bit later on, but in the meantime this passage in the original post really caught my eye:

. . . in reality, there hasn't been a true Giant since Crowley, who would take reign, whip everyone into shape, and move mountains.

His influence left marks on our civilization so deep not even mundanes can miss them.

Deliciously over the top.


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dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2309
07/07/2018 6:47 pm  

@mayet

Dom
Hello from from QLD *waves

Hi mayet!

I am one for watching what is going on upstairs with Astrology. In my opinion, Crowley had made changes that he didn’t publish to the masses and using the really real would have had the book of life open to see events and happenings.
If as above so below, then is just a matter of finding the keys
as for the police with the full moon .. that is a big yes.. Queensland police roster extra officers on for the full moon with good reason luna = lunacy
at the moment 12 kids trapped underground in thailand and then in india 11 dying in a fire ??

Yeah I think it was Colin Wilson who pointed that out about Full Moon crime rate rises believe it or not.

fascinating month up there for July https://www.space.com/16149-night-sky.html
https://www.space.com/32286-space-calendar.html
June was awesome with the solstice.
For example at present Vesta .. the asteroid with the visible yellow pink colours…. and two awesome eclipses coming up
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/06/skywatching-guide-june-solstice-saturn-moon-space-science/

Wow. Interesting stuff. Useful websites there.

also this is magik
https://www.space.com/41084-jupiter-moons-intricate-aurora-footprints.html?utm_source=notification

It certainly is, these photos of Jupiter and it's moons are incredible!

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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dom
 dom
(@dom)
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Joined: 5 years ago
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07/07/2018 8:07 pm  

@ignant666

I didn't get a chance to respond properly to this. When within this CV, did you in fact become interested in occultism, Thelema and Crowley and how and why?

To respond to david’s Q even though kinda OT

No I think it's relevant as you are showing us what shaped you and where your present attitudes may come from.

: i took the NYPD test, but was never a cop, a friend who was a detective talked me out of it after taking the test around 1985. He pointed out that i had/have a problem with authority (got even worse after i became one). I have had many many cops as students (see below).

The hate for authority must've started in your family system? I loved my dad as a little boy generally but when teen-hormones kicked in I began to hate him irrationally. The war raged on for years. This is a major reason, imo, why AC (et al) appealed to me (I discovered Thelema properly in my late teens). In my mid 20s after a few particularly big arguments I distinctly remember an experience coming to me of 'wow, what's been wrong with me for years? I like this guy!' We generally got on well from that time onwards.

Maybe OTOH you grew up in perhaps a leftist household where general dissention was encouraged by your parents?

I was a bicycle messenger/drug-dealer (day job, and night and weekend job, respectively) at the time

WHOA!! Did you read books in those days or where you just basically a wild little punk? What are your views on Crowley's take on criminality? Where you doing your True Will at that point in your timeline?
.

I had spent a good deal of time on NYC’s Lower East Side, with very short hair, looking for trouble, and finding it daily

I've always been against looking for trouble. When I became a teenager I happily fell in with neo-hippy types and ditched my football hooligan type 'friends'. Subsequently I was always sort of a hippy who hung out with guys who couldn't punch their way out of a paper bag... for a long time anyway. Therefore I guess you could say that I fell on Thelema via the intellectual naïve hippy leftist route.

.
Then i finished my undergrad degree (having been thrown out of two colleges, and high school, previously due to being a psycho),

What happened? Did you not like teachers? Y'know Al Capone as a teen, punched a teacher right in the face? They expelled him. Wouldn't be surprised if it was a nun.

I guess you would've made a good cop, maybe later on detective?

keeping things on topic, Los is apparently a Manhattener. What does that tell you? Nothing?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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dom
 dom
(@dom)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2309
07/07/2018 8:45 pm  

Aw damn I committed the where/were grammar crime above. Too late to change.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 3113
07/07/2018 10:33 pm  

To answer david's questions:

1) When in my "CV" i got into AC/Thelema: Long before any of what i described. I have been a Thelemite for about 46 years.
I first read the Confessions around 12 (1971), had a pretty large Crowley library by age 14 (which has grown (& occasionally shrunk, due to thefts and selling rare books) in the years since).
Did yoga at a local ashram as a teenager, studied martial arts (aikido, fencing) then also. Did magick rituals from 13 til late 20s. Attended a few Gnostic Masses at NYC (c)OTO in the 80s and 90s, and thought they were creeps.

2) Hatred for authority and family: My father was an ex-military officer (Korean War) who always wore a tie and bore a strong resemblance to Bryan Ferry of Roxy Music, my mother was an ultra-feminist who became Miss Marple in her older years.
It was a very proper household, that also encouraged rebellion and fun. They encouraged me and my brother to think for ourselves. We had to go to Sunday School when we were little, but it was always made clear to me that no one but an idiot believed that stuff. Bible stories scared the crap out of me.
In my teenage years, i did not get along well with them and left home at 17. By my mid-20s, when i was still "in the business", we reconciled, and i got along very well with them until they died.

3) My life of crime: My dad was a war hero (his ashes are in Arlington National Cemetery). Having also become an extreme ultra-left anarchist as a teenager, i couldn't prove my manhood that way. As i told my mom a few years before she died, "Crime was my military."
I spent a lot of my youth trying to find dangerous things to do; i traveled from Paris to New Delhi overland by myself in 1978 when i was 19. Selling drugs (weed, methamphetamine, and cocaine) was immensely profitable, dangerous as hell (several of my friends/peers/business associates were murdered in the course of robberies), and fun.
Yes, i am aware of AC's idea that one who violates the rights of others through crime forfeits those rights. i was never that kind of criminal- i sold drugs, for a fair price and giving accurate weight, to people who wanted them. "To live outside the law you must be honest", as Bob Dylan very correctly points out.
I got into fights almost daily in the 70s/80s, but i was a white punk-rock kid living in very hostile, very dangerous non-white neighborhoods; NYC just was dangerous in those years, and i lived in a succession of ghetto and semi-ghetto neighborhoods because i hated paying rent no matter how much $ i had. All my fights were self-defense, defense of others (never have been able to resist wading in on behalf of the underdog), or attacking Nazi punks who were foolish enough to come around our multi-ethnic, poly-racial Lower East Side skinhead crew.
I was a wild, quite large, punk, who has read voraciously throughout my life.

4) Why i got expelled from high school and two colleges: It wasn't at all that i hated teachers, i quite liked many of them. It was that i liked sex, drugs, drinking, and chaos very much more than i liked anything else.

5) As to where "doing my Will" might fit into any of this: i don't think Will is a monolithic construct, like a sort of cosmic Career Office in school (on the other hand it is nothing so wishy-washy as a bundle of "authentic preferences", such as for coffee, furniture-worship, and being a hostile arrogant prick on forums).
I think my teens and twenties were about pursuing and testing my notions of manhood, individuation, honor, and a refusal to compromise my integrity, while seeking in a formal sense to know my Will through K & C of the HGA. As to what came after ("certainty not faith"), i will exercise the Fourth Power, and the Fifth Amendment.

6) As to The Great And Powerful Los, 8=3 D.'. K.'., having at one time claimed to live in NYC: I don't ever recall him saying he lived in Manhattan specifically, just NYC. I invited him out for a beverage about 10 years ago since we were both in NYC. He said he was not interested in meeting others in real life.
I never believed he was an NYC resident, both because i don't think he is an American (though of course NYC is full of immigrants), and because back when we could check posting times by members in histograms, it was very clear that if he lived in NYC he did not have a 9-5 job (or at least spent his time at work on posting here). The post times coincided perfectly with "after work" hours in central Europe, on the other hand.
NYC has changed a lot, and become soft indeed- a guy like the Los-Bot probably could survive there these days, without losing his wallet, shoes and trousers every time he leaves his house.


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Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1548
08/07/2018 1:07 am  

Los is apparently a Manhattener. What does that tell you?

The Empire State is not the same since ignant666 left .
It's lost its vibe .
Being a manhattaner no longer holds sway .

These days when someone tells me they are from Manhattan i think of them as a mall ninja .


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 3113
08/07/2018 1:44 am  

I still live in the Empire State, just not in the city so nice they named it twice anymore. Even though i kind of hate the City just now, i could never live very far from it either.

John Updike said “The true New Yorker secretly believes that people living anywhere else have to be, in some sense, kidding.”

i got gentrified out of Brooklyn in 2011, and moved to a small town on the Hudson River about halfway between the city and Aesopus Island, about 90 minutes from the City. i lived in Manhattan on the LES 1979-84, and then again from '93 to '95 up on W. 112, but mostly in Williamsburg and Greenpoint in Brooklyn, just across the East River from the LES.

Now, I look at trees and birds, not rich people and garbage (assuming you can tell them apart). I own a house free and clear- i couldn't afford a phone booth (showing my age, there are no more phone booths) in the City. My brother (an artist/musician who can discuss Crowley intelligently, but is not a Thelemite) still lives there, but he is unmarried, has no kids, and has a rent-stabilized apartment, something i never had.

It's Manhattanite, BTW, just like Thelemite. But, as we used to say, "Manhattan makes it, but Brooklyn takes it!"

If there is some further interest in The ignant666 Show" (why anyone cares is what i don't understand, but be my guest), it should be a new thread, this has nothing to do with making fun of The S.'. H.'. Frater of the Ordo D.'. K.'..

The City has indeed become very suburban mall-like. There are still parts of Queens, and most of the Bronx, that feel like New York to me.


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 3113
08/07/2018 2:19 am  

For some reason, my final edit to the above post disappeared, although "Reason: aff [sic; typo for 'add'] final thought on OT-ness of it all" does appear there- ?!?!

What vanished was:

If there is some further interest in "The ignant666 Show" (why anyone cares is what i don't understand, but be my guest, i'll answer almost any question), it should be a new thread, this has nothing to do with the OT, making fun of The S.'. H.'. Frater of the Ordo D.'. K.'..


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dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2309
08/07/2018 12:16 pm  

@ignant666

Yeah I think it's only natural that people are interested in New York/New Yorkers and their stories in the same way that 2000 years ago people in Syria or Gaul would want to know about Rome and Romans.

Maybe you could do a 'How I got into Thelema' thread and transfer your posts over?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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elitemachinery
(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 505
08/07/2018 5:03 pm  

@ignant666 your stories are great..since you're a writer and retired...why not entertain the masses with a regular sample of your life in the form of a blog or book or all of the above? frame it as a tale of a man influenced by Thelema and AC so you can share some of it here...you'd have kids lining up around the block to hear you read them aloud..just like Buk!


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elitemachinery
(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 505
08/07/2018 5:26 pm  

here u go Travis...a short piece all made from anagrams of your name...probably you used to be a silver miner out west somewhere way back when ha!

devil ran west
silver wanted
new dirt slave

wild veterans
devil a strewn
antes rev wild

snare wild vet
dirt lawn eves
wet and silver

deliver wants


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pegasus
(@pegasus)
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 98
03/04/2019 8:57 am  

I began to see that one might become a Master of the Temple without necessarily knowing any technical Magick or mysticism at all.

Mama Mae *Shakes Head Laughingly* interpreted by logos that reads......

Los imagined in HIS egophysical greed that one could appropriate the label of Master............

I will just stop at the HIS and leave it there ....

Love from the temple

===========================================


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Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1548
03/04/2019 3:06 pm  

“ She danced and whirled, scattering starlight in her silent laughter.

I Am Whom I appear to be, at times, and then again I wear a triple veil. Be not confused! Above all, Truth prevails. I am the Unconfined. Who is there to say me nay, to say, “Thou shalt not pass.”? Who indeed may say, “Thy time is yet to come”, when Time itself is my chief serving-maid, and Space the Major-domo of my Temple?

Indeed, O Voice of the Akasha, I am the means by which you speak. By the same mouth that breathes the Air, do words of doubt pour forth.

In silence then, do know Me. For I am come with purpose at this time, to aid the Lovers of the Hawk to fly. “

“ Ye flew, O Kings and Hermits! And ye fly even now, within the bending loveliness of NU. But there are those among ye, and below ye, who would snare your wings and drag ye from the sky.

Look well within! Judge well your Heart! If ye be pure, it weighs no more than I. It will not bear ye down to the Abyss. For Gold is Light, but Lead is fatal unto flying - plumb your own depths, in Truth and in self-knowledge. If aught would hinder thee, it is thy doing. Behold this teaching now within the Temple.

So saying, She-Who-Moves assumed the form of the great Black Flame, growing from the central shaft and billowing out into the Void. The Children of Heru beheld in silence, and listened to Her words form in their hearts. “
Official Transcript of the Incoming of the Aeon of Maat
https://hermetic.com/wisdom/pennae_praenumbra


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