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dom
 dom
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04/03/2020 8:59 pm  

Liber Al is like a Biblical text insofar as it deals with themes and issues which are almost timeless or at least century-spanning.   That is, it is written in 'Bible-speak'. It's almost like it would be fully comprehended by anyone from any century in the times of the Old Testament onwards. The are a few references or indications of technology but they are basic and not at all necessarily modern ie the making of 'jewellery' and 'garments' or mining (of silver or gold). The only indication that this is not Old Testament-like is when war-technology is specified as 'enginery' but we learnt in other threads that this word is rooted in the word 'genius'.  

The parables of Christ and/or Buddha can be fully appreciated 100s of years later by modern man as we still have labourers, gardeners, fishing and thatched roofs.....well... thatched roofs are probably dying out. 


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Shiva
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04/03/2020 9:47 pm  

Okay. Is there a question, or anything to debate? Or is this simply the positing of an axiom?

Yes, thatcher's roof is dying out in the occident. There are still places where thatching is the high standard.

Bible-speak is merely second and third person familiar tense, which God and his Agents use when they're talking to Christians ... or reformed Christians who have become heretics, but they still hear voices in holy lingo.

 


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dom
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04/03/2020 10:21 pm  

Bible-speak is merely second and third person familiar tense,

 

It's of it's time yet not.  A lot happened to the planet and human society in 3000 years and AL does not really address technology or the modern world......as I said in the OP.   Any thoughts on that?  


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Shiva
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04/03/2020 10:41 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Any thoughts on that?

On what? Technology in Holey Books? Your point or position or question phrased in standard 2020 English?


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dom
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04/03/2020 11:25 pm  

I guess a holy book of the New Aeon has to be transmitted/received as an Old aeon holy book.   AC was versed (pun intended) in Bible-speak so we have;

 

 

King James Version Revelation 22:11;

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

 

Genesis 8:19;

Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, [and] whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.


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Shiva
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05/03/2020 1:10 am  
Posted by: @dom

AC was versed (pun intended) in Bible-speak so we have;

Yes. He was raised, programmed, and brought up in a culture that word-shiped a book written in Olden English familiar. His subconscious train-tracks were already laid and running: God and his Agents speak in Olde Anglish familar tense ... because that's what King James' translators/spin-artists spoke.

I can make this judgment, and assign penalties, because I grew up in a similar culture. I think most of us did. We spoke one dialect, but Bible lingo was familiar, and only quaint Quakers use that any more in the real world. But Bible lingo was reserved for holy matters, usually on Sundays. Anyway, you probably recently saw examples of my ancient (1968) pigeon-Bible-format lingo. I once was lost, but now I've found ... amazing grace in cutting that crap out. It is an "affectation," and it's a tennie-weenie sub-circuit in the Mind-Control machine.

I don't know what people of other cultures go through, like say a Jewish initiate. Do they have to learn Hebrew Holy Speak in ancient dialects?

 


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ignant666
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05/03/2020 1:21 am  

I grew up around college campuses, which means around a lot of Jewish kids.

I always thought they got a better deal, with learning the Hebrew alphabet and (some) Hebrew at Saturday School. Plus more holidays.

Whereas we just got terrifying OT Bible stories. Read by a man who could roll cigarettes with one hand, and did- it was the '60s, so of course my Sunday School teacher smoked in class.

So i already knew the Hebrew alphabet when i encountered AC. And was terrified of Xianity. Who says there is no value to religious education?


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Shiva
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05/03/2020 7:29 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

Who says there is no value to religious education?

"Not me," said the weenie.

Image result for teenie weenie

I would like to maintain that you have illustrated religious education by presenting two (2) scenarios, rather than the path undertaken by many advocates who go to ONE (1) religious school. The only value to attending one scenario is that one might find solace in whatever is being sold. But it's programming, conditioning, brainwashing, with attempted imprinting (imprints cannot be forced, but they try) ... whatever name you want for "narrow-minded."

But toss in just one (1) more approach (to the same end or goal, and the synthesis will really open one's eyes. I believe I have trained in, and graduated from, seven systems. I am not sure. I'll try to count them before hitting SEND or SUBMIT (Oh yeah, ADD REPLY).

My point is, just as Ignant3x6 cited education in observing Jewish children, and a thoroughly horrifying delivery by a smokin' terrorist,leading to a two-channel input of religious teaching ... free. Well, I recommend at least one other mainstream (mainstream for you, not the masses) system. Crowley laid out a magnificent framework, but he didn't fill in all the spheres and paths in his writings. Heaven knows, he tried, and delivered the most practical system available.

I think a lot of folks around here also study some Buddha-type stuff, and there's a few who pursue the non-dual stuff, and many are martial arts enthusiasts or practitioners.

But, hey wait a minute, if you're in some outer order now, or have undertaken the path of self-initiation, and are in a curriculum, no, don't do it. It's like when you're in a bachelor degree program and you start taking dancing classes when your major is chemistry ... or you try poking your nose into master's degree courses. A firm foundation in any school of A.'.A.'. is great. Some people come to AC's writings after they have built their primary foundation.

We are supposed to become familiar with diverse systems when reading the books in The Student Reading List. In one month!  That's okay. But I'm talking about going to school. Not as a joiner, for Horus' sake. One needs to be able to walk away as a graduate.

Kepher-Ra is calling. It is the dead of night. Let me count the ways ...

U.S. Army, A.'.A.'., Transhimalaya, Oriental Medicine, Oriental Martial Arts, Tibetan Empowerment, Mr. White. Yep, that's seven. I actually graduated with honors or powers from them all, but the first one was not dealing with consciousness (physical stuff), and the last one was more of an extended, honorary audience as a capstone. The others each dealt with consciousness ... and it all fits nicely into and onto the Tree of Life.

I'm not writing out all this spiritual garbage to impress anyone, or cite my Curriculum Vitae in any way to bring any stupid glory upon my crown. No, I just want everyone to learn at least two different systems ... and synchronize them. That's all. If you do just two, you're in, and any others will follow of their own accord.

 

 


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05/03/2020 7:30 pm  

The Bible (as you call it) is in hebrew "Sepher TORA" (the Book of the LAW) and it's sounds familiar to us.


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Shiva
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05/03/2020 9:34 pm  
Posted by: @nassah

The Bible (as you call it) is in hebrew "Sepher TORA" (the Book of the LAW) and it's sounds familiar to us.

Bible = "book." Sepher = "book." I'm all booked up and have heard the Tora(h) recited. Nothing seemed familiar to me. Maybe I mis-understood your point?

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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05/03/2020 10:35 pm  
Posted by: @dom

That is, it is written in 'Bible-speak'. It's almost like it would be fully comprehended by anyone from any century in the times of the Old Testament onwards.

This made me think why it needed to be in "bible speak". For example:

"Do what thou wilt" could not be communicated like that in "modern speak"

"Do what you wilt" - we don't say "wilt" any more so it sounds off, and something is lost changing the "thou" to "you". Even "Do what you will" sounds off.

"Do what you want" - this is how it would come out and it misses the point entirely. 

No one ever calls you a "thou" these days so when you think of yourself as a "thou" you are thinking of some deeper version of yourself (I'd say the "non-egoic" self). And it is this "Thou" that does the "wilting", not the rubbish ordinary self that just does the wanting.

There is probably a way to translate it into modern speak, but I'm not smart enough to do so, and I suspect it would use more words and wouldn't be as "neat".


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Shiva
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06/03/2020 1:17 am  
Posted by: @shiva

Bible = "book." Sepher = "book." I'm all booked up and have heard the Tora(h) recited. Nothing seemed familiar to me. Maybe I mis-understood your point?

 

I guess you might have meant the "Book of the Law" part. The Freemasons also have a Book of the Law. It sits on the altar and is the chosen book of the candidate. So it might be a Bible (common), or a Koran (unlikely), or a Tao Teh Ching (never heard that one being used, but it's possible), or a Liber AL (?), or a Torah (not common, but I hear it's been done). Mao's Little Red Book, Playboy magazine, and Sports Illustrated generally do not qualify.

So these Masonic guys, who gave birth to the GD, AA, and OTO, are what might be tolerant. That is, they have their own mysteries to bestow, and they don't care what religion you choose


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Shiva
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06/03/2020 2:39 am  
Posted by: @duck

"Do what thou wilt" could not be communicated like that in "modern speak"

U.G. said, "Go where you will, do what you want." When we dissected U.G., here, that phase caused rotary motions in somebody's alimentary canal. Perhaps he failed to take it in its intended context.

U.G. tells us that all of this stuff is a "spiritual con" game run by "holy men." "Stuff" includes planes, gods, practices, and that sort of thing. He maintained that WYSIWYG, and all this other stuff was just made up. He's right, you know, but I'm not here to defend that position ... just to give an example in modern speak, that is similar, but certainly not the same (?), as Do what thou wilt.

Let me take a shot at trying:

Everyone's prime directive
is to do all in their power
to determine their Will
and then do it.

Now, I'm just paraphrasing the "Find your will and do it!" explanation to Do what thou wilt that was used by Lodges Agape and Solar. Nobody said Do what thou wilt except in ceremonies or purposely-quoted rhetoric. But we used the common lingo version in everyday speaking, if that was the subject under discussion. I merely dressed it up (above) in whiter fancier language.

People often say WTF? when the Biblo-lingo version is used, or read. So that's how we handled the WFTs: Find your Will and Do it! Nothing else counts. (you will then be tested to see "what counts"). All successful aspirants will tell you that it all has to go away, except the search, the never-ending Path ... which finally ends. (If you make it). Then you can take a break.

Then you can go where you will and do what you want. Both Krishnamurtis (Jiddu and U.G.) essentially poo-poohed the Path, saying it was not needed. The whole, clear understanding of what is going on is right there in front of you, if you'll just see it.

I agree with where the clarity is, but I find this to be examples of accomplished people forgetting that they once walked the Path, and did an extraordinary amount of practices as they passed through the realm where that stuff is needed. They are describing the far end of the Path ... to beginners, who need a clear picture of the front end of the Path. After the midpoint (Tiphareth), one needs no Krishna, or Croeley; he or she is connected. When you get to Binah, just remember to give some advice at the level the question is fired from.

Posted by: @duck

"Do what you want" - this is how it would come out and it misses the point entirely. 

Despite my Epistle, above, I agree. Want is by general usage, associated with personal desire, which is selfish. kama-manas ("desire-mind") the Hindoos call it. Will is associated with Chokmah, a long ways away from Yesod, the sphere of greed. Everybody's initial Will is to get to Tiphareth. How they get there, nobody should care. They do not have to join the T.O.T. or link into a lineage (these things help many people, but there are fierce independent magicians who will not sign a paper or join a group.

Posted by: @duck

No one ever calls you a "thou" these days so when you think of yourself as a "thou" you are thinking of some deeper version of yourself

Right. And the "thou" is sometimes explained as the higher self. Do what thou (the higher self) wilt. By using this Agape-Solar explanation, the entire passage takes on a new meaning. The "thou" is not you or me, but the universal Self who cannot get through to you without an intermediate messenger and guide, who is illusionary, but will get you to the train station at Chelsea Chesed.

Posted by: @duck

There is probably a way to translate it into modern speak, but I'm not smart enough to do so, and I suspect it would use more words and wouldn't be as "neat".

The other side of the coinage says, "Don't sweat it. Just do it."

 


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Pertinax
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06/03/2020 9:54 am  

The existentialist Martin Buber, described one way of relating to existence an an “I/Thou” relationship ultimately leading to relationship with God.
I = the temporal man, and God = the eternal Thou.

The implications of “Do what thou wilt” seems pretty clear when viewed in that light, archaic language or not.

it’s also worth noting that “thou” is still used in some northern English dialects, along with ‘thee’, although it’s highly colloquial.


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06/03/2020 11:57 am  

Shiva, maybe it is easyest way to look in Hebrew-English Dictionary. I supose you will find  under the word TORA (as in ROTA, TARO, ORAT...) something indicating the LAW. And SPhR...


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RuneLogIX
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06/03/2020 12:49 pm  

One thing is certain, AC was fully aware of this verse throughout his life:

 

Image result for matthew 3:11

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


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RuneLogIX
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06/03/2020 12:57 pm  
Posted by: @duck
Posted by: @dom

That is, it is written in 'Bible-speak'. It's almost like it would be fully comprehended by anyone from any century in the times of the Old Testament onwards.

This made me think why it needed to be in "bible speak". For example:

"Do what thou wilt" could not be communicated like that in "modern speak"

"Do what you wilt" - we don't say "wilt" any more so it sounds off, and something is lost changing the "thou" to "you". Even "Do what you will" sounds off.

"Do what you want" - this is how it would come out and it misses the point entirely. 

No one ever calls you a "thou" these days so when you think of yourself as a "thou" you are thinking of some deeper version of yourself (I'd say the "non-egoic" self). And it is this "Thou" that does the "wilting", not the rubbish ordinary self that just does the wanting.

There is probably a way to translate it into modern speak, but I'm not smart enough to do so, and I suspect it would use more words and wouldn't be as "neat".

The King James translation is still in-arguably the best English translation of the bible. I recall christian debating the same merit of new translations in the 1990s and it appears that the new translations are gaining considerable market share at least with younger audiences. But our Holy Book cannot be changed even in one letter (sorry H.B.). However the Beast was Ordered to translate the book into all tongues. Now surely there are occult meaning to this verse that I won't enter into here but since wanting that to happen from AC isn't possible I say it is up to us. I am working on a full Latin translation of Liber Al, if anyone can help your contribution would be most welcome. My best try at translating this into Latin:

  1. Who calls us Thelemites will do no wrong, if he look but close into the word. For there are therein Three Grades, the Hermit, and the Lover, and the man of Earth. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Cuis vocat Thelemites nihil iniuriam, vultus verbum. Tres gradus, Heremita, Amator, homo de Terra. Faci quod vis sublabor erit omnibus legibus.

Needless to say the bold text is hard to make as precise as possible. However a lot of the book is remarkably easy. The follow up law looks a lot, even poetic is "Love is the love, love under will."  Amor lex est, amor sub voluntate. When far enough along I may send to some latin teachers I know for proofreading and release as soon as possible.

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


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ignant666
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06/03/2020 12:57 pm  

"God gave Noah the rainbow sign/No more water but the fire next time" (The Carter Family; see also Genesis 9:11).

What on earth is the point of translating AL into Latin?


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RuneLogIX
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06/03/2020 1:06 pm  

@ignant666 I'm not even going to humor you with a reply.

 

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


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ignant666
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06/03/2020 1:30 pm  

Got it. I will leave it to others to critique your Latin, which looks to be on the Tarzanic level we would expect from a person of your education and intelligence.


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RuneLogIX
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06/03/2020 1:44 pm  

A relevant new find:

  1. Strive ever to more! and if thou art truly mine -- and doubt it not, an if thou art ever joyous! -- death is the crown of all.

Laetans! Mors est corona omnibusse.

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


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The HGA of a Duck
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06/03/2020 5:29 pm  
Posted by: @runelogix

My best try at translating this into Latin

This "Hierophantic Task" seems very appropriate given your username, best of luck with it. Different languages can make different connections, and though I can't understand Latin I can pick out the odd word and see some of these connections. With "this book shall be translated into all languages" Latin is an important one and if this is the first Latin translation then that's very cool that you're doing it. It could sound very nice in a sort of "fake-Catholic" ritual.

 

Posted by: @runelogix

A relevant new find:

That word is very topical and will continue to be so. Like I mentioned, I can pick out the odd word and that one also makes a connection with the Sun, which I would never have noticed otherwise.


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Shiva
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06/03/2020 5:59 pm  
Posted by: @runelogix

@ignant666 I'm not even going to humor you with a reply.

Shut up, Ignant. You are as unworthy as a gopher. You are below speaking to ... or even about.

 


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RuneLogIX
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06/03/2020 6:50 pm  

@duck about 15% of English words are directly lifted from Latin. More so in the Romance languages which all derive from vulgar Latin. Given two equal words in English it is sometimes the because one came from Latin and the other pre-existed in Old English or Anglo-Saxon sources. English grammar is considerably simplified in comparison to Latin (not too dissimilar to German IMO) but at the expense of flexible word orders which makes it so concise and flexible. I personally find that Latin numerology and occultism (from 'oculus' eye) in general is significantly under ratted, the first accessible book on the Cabala written in Latin was in 1517. As a barbarous language I find it a lot easier to use in rituals then ancient Greek and Hebrew.

 

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


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ignant666
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06/03/2020 7:25 pm  
Posted by: @runelogix

occultism (from 'oculus' eye)

No it isn't, O Mighty Latin Scholar:

https://www.etymonline.com/word/occult

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=occult

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/occult#etymology

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/occult#English

Posted by: @runelogix

significantly under ratted

How many rats would be optimal, in your considered view?


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thelemis
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06/03/2020 7:42 pm  

 

I believe I have trained in, and graduated from, seven systems.

Wait.....  there is more than one system? 🤔 

All roads/knowledge/logos leads to GOD 😍 

The third universal truth-  it isn't ------

I am not sure.

if YOU are not sure, then I  have no hope for humanity 😧

 

Kepher-Ra is calling. It is the dead of night. Let me count the ways ...

ahhh the The Wide Awake World.. is  Magick ..... There is 1 way , or should I say 1's way 🤫 

It all floats down here

When one starts on the path with the master first, then over the years unwraps the layers to find more of the beautiful gift inside.. it is worthy to see other viewpoints .. BUT .. if the deeper layers of the scribe are indeed already unwrapped and lit by the student, wouldn't one already subscribe to alternate view or pieces of that alternate view with edits and changes in mind 

in reference to your seven diplomas/degrees limit ... I am finding more and more that each of us learns exactly what they need to learn when they need to learn it... and as one gets closer to the true knowledge of self and totally centering and balancing, then they can watch with joy as they realize that everything before has bought them to this point and everything they have learned and ever done .. is for now ..

I dont think I have ever graduated from any school ever .. I attend all

PS Shiva . a few weeks back you were speaking of the types of buddhism  one was from a GOD aspect one was from self  .. could you remind me of the names of those again please .. meanwhile, as I have perused the borg library files on this I have had a phat time thank you that post/topic was valuable

I'll try to count them before hitting SEND or SUBMIT (Oh yeah, ADD REPLY).

I am going to click/hit it anyway 😝 

but before I do, I will sit in silence for a moment and then the moment becomes .... 😇 🌹 

 an amazing ride indeed   🤐 


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Shiva
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06/03/2020 9:34 pm  
Posted by: @runelogix

about 15% of English words are directly lifted from Latin.

Ad, at least in scientific and medical terminology, 80% come from Greek, where the Romans lifted it, long ago. So we have 80% Greek, 20% Latin, and the tiny % of other languages need to be deducted from one or the other (reduce 80 or 20 a tad).

I can't do it (the reductions). I am too stoopid. I have no idea how I taught Medical Terminology for several years ... and got away with it.

Posted by: @runelogix

easier to use in rituals then ancient Greek and Hebrew.

Than, Rune, than.

Posted by: @thelemis

Wait.....  there is more than one system?

Let me count the ways. Wait ... I already did that.

There is only one spectrum of consciousness. There are manifold "systems" that attempt to duplicate the processes of that single spectrum. Of those, A.'.A.'. is the most practical, as far as I've been able to determine.

Posted by: @thelemis

All roads/knowledge/logos leads to GOD

Excuse while I suffer from Clichedom.

Posted by: @thelemis

if YOU are not sure, then I  have no hope for humanity

Now you are getting a clear picture.

Posted by: @thelemis

wouldn't one already subscribe to alternate view or pieces of that alternate view with edits and changes in mind 

Maybe, maybe not.

Posted by: @thelemis

n reference to your seven diplomas/degrees limit ... I am finding more and more that each of us learns exactly what they need to learn when they need to learn it..

Well, yes, that's a fine understanding of how things would work, if they worked. I suppose we should all stop learning and teaching, because everyone will get what they need anyway. That's sort of what U.G. recommends.

Posted by: @thelemis

they can watch with joy as they realize that everything before has bought them to this point and everything they have learned and ever done .. is for now ..

If self is aligned and balanced, the net result is Nada (Spanish for "nothing"). If there is joy, then there's still a Self to enjoy it. If there is nothing, there is no realization. Just wu-wei.

Posted by: @thelemis

I dont think I have ever graduated from any school ever .. I attend all

Congratulations on your lack of credentials. I believe you have said you have gone to all the schools. Gee, that's a lot of attending.

Posted by: @thelemis

a few weeks back you were speaking of the types of buddhism  one was from a GOD aspect one was from self  .. could you remind me of the names of those again please

I am not a heathen Buddhist and harldly know any of their terms. The Hindus have a "seeing the Self" and a "Seeing the Self destroyed" deal. Buddhists and Hindus, neither one, seem to have a GOD, so I'm lost and cannot redeem you. It's a good thing I have already given you enough data to contact the Secret Chiefs on your own. They will tell you everything.

 

 Say, what medications have you been intaking today? You seem contented as a cow. I wish I could be more efficient in translating your post into clear statements or questions, but I can't read minds or intents unless I get paid for it.


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christibrany
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06/03/2020 10:00 pm  
Posted by: @thelemis

... and as one gets closer to the true knowledge of self and totally centering and balancing, then they can watch with joy as they realize that everything before has bought them to this point and everything they have learned and ever done .. is for now ..

I dont think I have ever graduated from any school ever .. I attend all etc etc etc

Spring is in the air! 


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Shiva
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06/03/2020 10:35 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

Spring is in the air! 

Sprung!


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christibrany
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06/03/2020 10:39 pm  

@shiva

 

*birds sing*

*Cultists wave tentacles proclaiming themselves prophets and Aleisters*

 

Speaking of which, did RTC get the spring fever? He ain't been round lately no how.  April Fools is approaching....

 

*ACHOO!* 😐 

 

 

 


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Shiva
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06/03/2020 10:48 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

Speaking of which, did RTC get the spring fever? He ain't been round lately no how.  April Fools is approaching....

He will return. This is his silent period in the marketing scheme.


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ignant666
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06/03/2020 11:02 pm  

And i would like to put to rest, for once and for all, those nasty rumors that the reason @therealrtc has been silent for lo, these nearly two weeks now, is that he is chained in four-point restraints to the wall of a lunatic asylum somewhere near Barking, with one of those Hannibal Lecter things on his head, after several unfortunate incidents with staff, grunting incoherently, and periodically making a noise described by Psychiatric Nurse Al G. Mor as "like one of those little Pekinese dogs, if it was very upset".

While there is no evidence that this is not in fact the case, it may not, in fact, be true.


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Shiva
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07/03/2020 1:48 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

And i would like to put to rest, for once and for all ...

... until next time.

 


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sandi lee
(@modestyblaise)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1
12/03/2020 9:26 pm  

Have you all nothing better to do than play this juvenile tennis, flexing your ego filled craniums?

Do any of you actually read The Master's works or just ride on his shirt tails and hover in his slipstream.

Believe me, your points of view are only important to you [and I include myself in this]. Pulling his books to pieces [or each other] like some tutor in a two bit college in an attempt to make all believe that he is the only one who 'get it' and it is beneath him to even be in the same room as these lame brains.

If you are oh so important, and oh so knowledgeable, then publish some huge tomes that will set the world right, and what is glaringly obvious is that, like some new kid on the block, you are ever so slightly nervous of the Old Aeon's superiority, and, what is even more telling, is that they have more followers and do not need a PR agent.

Just saying, 'kiddies'. 


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2665
12/03/2020 9:30 pm  

Springtime, kids! It's OFFICIAL now!

My garden seed order just got delivered today too.


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dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2009
12/03/2020 9:58 pm  

@modestyblaise   sandi lee

 

Do any of you actually read The Master's works

Yep, I am Igor to his Drac-u-larr. 

 

or just ride on his shirt tails and hover in his slipstream.

I'm not that way inclined,no.

 

 


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4503
12/03/2020 10:08 pm  
Posted by: @modestyblaise

Have you all nothing better to do than play this juvenile tennis, flexing your ego filled craniums?

'''''''''''''''''uh,oh! Here comes the Judge, the busybody, the Censor, all rolled into one condescending triune critic. Good afternoon to you, too.

Posted by: @modestyblaise

Do any of you actually read The Master's works or just ride on his shirt tails and hover in his slipstream.

The Master had more personal problems than we do. We read his words in order to find out how to catch up.

Posted by: @modestyblaise

Believe me

I Not a chance.

Posted by: @modestyblaise

Just saying, 'kiddies'. 

Please kiss the buttocks of Baphomet on your way out.

Posted by: @modestyblaise

If you are oh so important, and oh so knowledgeable, then publish some huge tomes that will set the world right

I have, I do, I am (publishing). 

Posted by: @ignant666

My garden seed order just got delivered today too.

Some Sprung Bird just got into your peyote seeds.

 


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The HGA of a Duck
(@duck)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 526
13/03/2020 12:06 am  

@modestyblaise

You sound like you might have something interesting to say. Start a new thread, it seems a bit quiet here this week.

 


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djedi
(@djedi)
Member
Joined: 7 months ago
Posts: 214
13/03/2020 12:48 am  

It is the power of daleth to laugh at something you love, and binah to make fun of something you take seriously -- but that's from way back. Post-irony is a Horian formula.

Posted by: @modestyblaise

Do any of you actually read The Master's works

If you aren't crazy, you're at least earnest, so let me reward you with a grain of salt. Some gentlemen, usually of older stock but nuanced culture, fall into a pit that the aesthetes first dug for western civilization and which, ironically, Aleister Crowley was known to stumble through on occasion; a program written into their lower selves by certain cultures which proscribes it corny or at least gauche to earnestly enjoy something originating outside the culture that wrote the program. This doesn't stop people from enjoying those forbidden things, but to satisfy their lower social desires they must first negate the power of the thing they want to enjoy, like a fly will spit enzymes on food before eating it. In so many words, they have to insult something in the same breath they compliment it, so their guts don't get out-of-whack (not to mix metaphors).

I have encountered many people who do this to Aleister Crowley, and who will never admit it but like the man very much and so must ridicule him for it. Don't take it personally.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3951
13/03/2020 1:36 am  
Posted by: @modestyblaise

Do any of you actually read The Master's works or just ride on his shirt tails and hover in his slipstream.

Yes, I do, and have for many years. Though I would never refer to him as "The Master". To me he's one influence upon me of many: for example Kenneth Grant, Austin Osman Spare, Charles Stansfeld Jones, Advaita Vedanta, Buddhism. Although by far the biggest influence of these is Kenneth Grant, I wouldn't refer to him as "The Master". Mind you, each to his own.

Imagine: your first post here, and it's invective aimed at us "kiddies". I look forward to further posts from you with a little more substance and a little less condescension.

 

 

 


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Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1409
13/03/2020 11:35 pm  
Posted by: @michael-staley

Though I would never refer to him as "The Master".

Presumably, this would therefore include any reference to him as "The Master Therion" (which was how he styled himself as 9=2), and would also imply that you didn't recognize his achievement either as a Master of the Temple (8=3)?  If so this seems rather unusual! 

Posted by: @michael-staley

Although by far the biggest influence of these is Kenneth Grant, I wouldn't refer to him as "The Master"

Would you refer to anybody as being a Master, or is it the definite article "The" that you have reservations over?  Or is it trouble with the actual word "Master" itself but if so why would that be?

Yours with curiosity,

Norma N Joy Conquest

Posted by: @michael-staley

Imagine: your first post here, and it's invective aimed at us "kiddies". I look forward to further posts from you with a little more substance and a little less condescension.

Agreed.  (Oh - and urgh before I forget, welcome!)

 


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3951
14/03/2020 12:20 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Presumably, this would therefore include any reference to him as "The Master Therion" (which was how he styled himself as 9=2), and would also imply that you didn't recognize his achievement either as a Master of the Temple (8=3)?

No, my distate for the term "The Master" does not extend to his adoption of the name "The Master Therion"; nor to the term "Master of the Temple" let alone the Office or the attainment. I just don't feel the reverance implied by referring to someone as "The Master", whether applied to Aleister Crowley, Noel Coward or anybody else.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Would you refer to anybody as being a Master, or is it the definite article "The" that you have reservations over?  Or is it trouble with the actual word "Master" itself but if so why would that be?

I have no problem with the word Master - to master something, a technique, musical instrument, language, etc. It's the term "The Master" for which I don't really care.

 

Yours in the knowledge that I haven't really answered your questions, but will tarry no longer,

 

Michael.

 

 

 


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4503
14/03/2020 12:56 am  
Posted by: @michael-staley

I would never refer to him as "The Master".

It was good enough for Bela Lugosi, why not AC? The actual formal address is: "The Master Therion," as depicted on his just jackets and in his very own writings. But his disciples just called him "Beast." So there's a really big wide range of things in-between those two to drawn names from.

In my writings, I usually call him Perdurabo, but sometimes Therion if its a book reference or a formal Beast-quote. I understand The Beast is supposed to utter blasphemies ... I guess that part is true.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

you didn't recognize his achievement either as a Master of the Temple (8=3)?  If so this seems rather unusual! 

Yer honor! Said Jamie is either mixing the planes or the meataphors. Mr Michael sed he wouldn't call him "The Master," He did'n refute said Master's grades or other stuff like that. I move that said Jamie is stirrin' the pot with a Whipmaster(TM) blender tool in order to cast dispershuns upon Mr Michael's mentality and ability to count and properly use equation cymbals symbols.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Would you refer to anybody as being a Master

"The Master" is the term under scrutiny, not "a Master." Anyone may refer to me as a Master, since I hold two Masters' degrees. Please use proper context, person, and tense ... there's enough Spring Fever going around as it is.

Posted by: @michael-staley

I just don't feel the reverance implied by referring to someone as "The Master", whether applied to Aleister Crowley, Noel Coward or anybody else.

Well put. "The" Master implies there's only one ... and we know there's at least seven. I believe I shall henceforth refere to him (or another) as "His Septenary." I'm holding "His Cemetary" for some future unfortunate."

 

 


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dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2009
14/03/2020 10:44 am  

@shiva

 

Do Zen monks refer to their head-monk as 'Master' out of respect?  They probably do.  In fact in the world of karate/eastern martial arts the term sensai (teacher) is sued but what about 'master'?  


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dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2009
14/03/2020 11:00 am  

used not sued....typo.


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