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Are there any Thelemic traditions that only use one chapter of AL?  

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Set-Tetu-Ra
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01/05/2020 6:38 pm  

For instance, is there any group that only takes Chapter 1 as valid, with the other two as Crowley just trying to add and tap back in best he could? If Nuit is all maybe only that perspective mattered and so they don't care about Had and Ra? Anything like that?

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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Shiva
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01/05/2020 7:24 pm  

I have not heard of any "one chapter" groups or individuals, ever.

However, there just must be some macho, Chapter III-inclined people running amok, somewhere.


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christibrany
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01/05/2020 9:09 pm  

@shiva

Ex-Motto-ites

 

(editors note) Not Motto as in taking a motto but as in 

Marcelo Motto , pretty much certified insane.  In the bad way. 🙂

 

Not to be confused with Mato Grosso also from Brazil and also a wasteland of nothing but grass. 


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Jamie J Barter
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01/05/2020 10:23 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

(editors note) Not Motto as in taking a motto but as in 

Marcelo MOTTA

Posted by: @christibrany

Not to be confused with

Marcelo Motto!

Posted by: @christibrany

Ex-Motto-ites

Are you saying it's the ex-followers that incline" towards the 3rd chapter, or Marcelo himself?  Or both?  You may well be right chris, but what evidence would you be basing this on?

'Proof'-readingly yurs,

Norma N Joy Conquest

 

 


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christibrany
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02/05/2020 1:29 am  

@jamiebarter

 

Well thank you sir, for your usual pedantic-ness. 

 

Well as some friends of mine know I have been stuck at Hod for quite some time. I thought I was at Yesod all this time.  Well, I keep flip-flopping my little fishy fins. 

 

That said I have been stuck based (on the above sentence), on quirky characters who failed miserably in their spiritual hike.

I like to study characters so I don't have the same pitfalls they did.  Keep on swimming, right? 

 

One could view it as using their prone bodies as shields over the pit of Because.

Perhaps MAL/XON wouldn't like that.  But I am not really about equality at all.

Everyone is different down here in the trenches.   And sorry, Canadian buddy, but it's never going to change.  This is Malkuth.  It's how it was programmed.

We can be Civil, and Nice, to eachother, but each and every one of us, even Magisters and Exempt Adepts, are hiding 'bad thoughts.'  

 

Anyway, RE the 'Third Chapter' I didn't really say such?  Neither did I imply that his followers did either.

 

My whole point was that if you are unbalanced enough (my balance is pretty bad, even after skate boarding. ) you will pick any chapter and roll with it.  But yes, in my opinion Motta ( 😉 ) would have picked the Third Chapter to select, as he wanted to have his own Order of the A.:.A.:. and use force to get it.  

 

I think he even threatened some people with murder or bodily harm.  So that fits.  It's more RHK than Nuit or Had(it). 

 

I didn't have correspondence with him, but I know some August Members of this Forum have. 

 

 

 

 

 


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Shiva
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02/05/2020 1:55 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

it's never going to change.  This is Malkuth.  It's how it was programmed.

Oh, Stop!  Please!  You are scaring me worse than the hair. You make it seem like insanity and disorder are lurking behind every corner, which they are.

Posted by: @christibrany

I didn't have correspondence with him, but I know some August Members of this Forum have. 

How dare you refer to me as August, when I was born in September?

We typed some back and forth, back when there was US Mail and Brazil Mail (by airplane). As a physician, speaking of his mentat, I would say some of his nuts-and-bolts had come loose.

 


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Jamie J Barter
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02/05/2020 1:58 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

Anyway, RE the 'Third Chapter' I didn't really say such?  Neither did I imply that his followers did either.

Well do pardon my pendantic-ness, you responded to @shiva's post immediately above yours with "Ex-Motto-ites" (sic) presumably in response to his

Posted by: @shiva

However, there just must be some macho, Chapter III-inclined people running amok, somewhere.

so the implication was there, no? yes?

Posted by: @christibrany

We can be Civil, and Nice, to eachother, but each and every one of us, even Magisters and Exempt Adepts, are hiding 'bad thoughts.'  

But I thought all thoughts were 'bad'?  (Shiva - you were saying?!)

Re. the OT, I can't see how any "one chapter group or individual" could favour just the Second.  And those favouring the First would have to include the second as well, by implication, since the Infinite Without cannot exist without the Infinite Within.  Their conjunction - our present 'universe' quantumly popping into being as the manifestation of Heru-ra-ha (and just as capable of popping back out again) - is the visible object of worship, and so in theory the Third Chapter ought be the most relevant to everybody of them all.  It's just that it's not very popular, being well rather unpleasant, bloodthirsty and not very nice at all, vicar... 

But yes, I think you're right, that Motta did seem to be particularly drawn to it as well as some of his followers e.g., David Bersson...

N Joy

 

 


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kidneyhawk
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02/05/2020 2:10 am  

To my perspective, the Book is a Unity. The idea of slicing off a bit and discarding the rest is rather crazy...and I've never encountered this view.

The Prophet (Scribe or Writer) gives us 3 Chapters in 3 Days as a complete work.

I also find that the totality of the Book is necessary to interpreting it.

For example, the 3rd Chapter tells us "For perfume...smooth down with rich fresh blood."

Chapter 1, however, told us: "My incense is of resinous woods...there is no blood therein."

One might argue that perfume is not incense. One might argue that Ra Hoor Khuit is not Nuit. If this issue must become a thread unto itself, so be it.

My simple point is that a blunt and literal interpretation of symbol follows fundamentalism. AL is filled with subtleties. To isolate a portion and cast off the rest may truly be "a great miss."

May I ask: why the question? 

 

 


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Shiva
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02/05/2020 3:31 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

so the implication was there, no? yes?

maybe?

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

To my perspective, the Book is a Unity.

Of course it is.

Somebody had a "What if ...?" thought and asked if there were such a thing as a group that only applied one chapter. So far, nobody has heard of such a thing ... but this thread may inspire some separatist to do just that.

 


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christibrany
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02/05/2020 7:32 am  

@shiva

 

You made me a big belly laugh.

 

Sometimes that's all I can do.

 

 

Its not about you.

 

But I understand, when I hear the frogs croaking I feel happy. We dont usually get that here 

 

Perhaps that's Liber 231. ? 


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Jamie J Barter
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02/05/2020 4:09 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

so the implication was there, no? yes?

maybe?

Yes, indeed maybe - not maybe not!

Posted by: @shiva

Somebody had a "What if ...?" thought and asked if there were such a thing as a group that only applied one chapter. So far, nobody has heard of such a thing .

"However", there would certainly appear to be an "inclination" to do so, as in

Posted by: @shiva

there just must be some macho, Chapter III-inclined people running amok, somewhere.

However/ But ...

Posted by: @shiva

... this thread may inspire some separatist to do just that.

Surely - maybe not?

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

My simple point is that a blunt and literal interpretation of symbol follows fundamentalism. AL is filled with subtleties. To isolate a portion and cast off the rest may truly be "a great miss."

Agreed.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

May I ask: why the question? 

Echo answers "why?"

Posted by: @christibrany

Its not about you.

No, it certainly isn't! (?)

Big belly-laughingly yours,

N Joy


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The HGA of a Duck
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03/05/2020 10:47 am  

@set-tetu-ra

I don't know of any but I have wondered about something similar: if I could only choose 1 chapter of AL, I'd go with Nuit's, and if for some reason I could no longer be a "Thelemite" I would quite happily just be a devotee of Nuit/Nut (I'm not a "proper" Thelemite anyway). Devotion to Nuit was a significant part of my "re-initiation" in January which I briefly mentioned somewhere. Out of AL's deities I see Nuit as the closest to her original Egyptian form, and I believe you can go far with devotion to just Nuit (Hadit and RHK are implied, even unconsciously).

Chapters 2 and 3 are of course important and I continue to study them, the "Buddhist" in me struggles a bit with the "Compassion is the vice of kings" stuff but its a learning experience and I don't take these lines literally.

If you're implying that the "Magick" started to wear off for Crowley after the first day and that his own personality started to show the more the writing went on, how about this "thought experiment": that's what Aiwass planned from the start. 🙂 


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Michael Staley
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03/05/2020 1:25 pm  
Posted by: @duck

if I could only choose 1 chapter of AL, I'd go with Nuit's

If we're indulging in a Thelemic 'Desert Island Discs' (bags me to be Roy Plumley), I feel similarly. Each chapter has a different perspective, and although there are many strands in the second and third chapters which are to me meaningful and important, it is the first chapter that has a sustained level of beauty and sublimity.


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ignant666
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03/05/2020 1:48 pm  

I agree.


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Set-Tetu-Ra
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03/05/2020 4:13 pm  

Yes I also agree. It's the first chapter that always really gets me, whereas I really never vibed with the 3rd. Its not even that I'm against the imagery or anything, it just doesn't feel as divine and authentic. And chapter 2 seems 50/50.

 

Am I right that chapter 1 is the only one where Crowley doesn't fight with Aiwass to stop writing? The book itself may suggest chapter 1 is the most pure. 

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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The HGA of a Duck
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03/05/2020 5:39 pm  

@set-tetu-ra

I guess ch. 2 does say "I see thee hate the hand & the pen; but I am stronger", but I get the impression AC quite enjoyed writing ch. 3. You could compare the handwriting of the 3 chapters to see if they look any different though you'd need high quality pics. These seem to be the best available at this time:

https://photos.bapho.net/LiberXXXI_ABA_scans/

 

It would be interesting to know what an expert in handwriting analysis would say.

 


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Set-Tetu-Ra
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03/05/2020 5:50 pm  
Posted by: @duck

@set-tetu-ra

I guess ch. 2 does say "I see thee hate the hand & the pen; but I am stronger", but I get the impression AC quite enjoyed writing ch. 3. You could compare the handwriting of the 3 chapters to see if they look any different though you'd need high quality pics. These seem to be the best available at this time:

https://photos.bapho.net/LiberXXXI_ABA_scans/

 

It would be interesting to know what an expert in handwriting analysis would say.

 

So I never noticed this, but I suck at reading cursive, and I can mostly read 3 but but barely read 1. 

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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The HGA of a Duck
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03/05/2020 6:07 pm  

🙂 Yes, reading his handwriting is pretty hard, I usually have to have the text version up as well when looking at the manuscript. You can of course just look at the shapes of the letters without the meaning to see if there is any difference in style. Others may even be able to pick up some of the emotion behind the writing though I'm not very good at this.


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Set-Tetu-Ra
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03/05/2020 6:09 pm  

https://www.handwriting-graphology.com/https://www.scriptalizer.co.uk/graphonomizer.asp

 

I haven't finished this yet so don't know if it's really free.  But I'm going to try

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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Set-Tetu-Ra
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03/05/2020 6:55 pm  
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

https://www.handwriting-graphology.com/https://www.scriptalizer.co.uk/graphonomizer.asp

 

I haven't finished this yet so don't know if it's really free.  But I'm going to try

Not what I was looking for, but interesting. So does this describe Crowley, or Aiwass? 

"To begin the analysis, the subject's handwriting shows more of a fluency and flow than the average script. The writing impulse is unbroken and the words sweep forward with relative ease. This released writing indicates a generally easy-going and less conformist attitude than the average. The subject will prefer the unusual to the familiar, and will be more likely to express his emotions and feelings than a writer with restrained script.

The pressure used throughout the script is average in intensity, indicating that the subject is able to maintain a balance between too much activity and too great a degree of lethargy. As a result, he lacks the intense drive and enthusiasm shown by writers with heavy pressure, but will be equally tolerant of inactivity in those who use a lower pressure in their script. He will be good at working methodically at the more routine tasks.

The subject is fairly confident and dominant in relationships and can quite easily strike up a conversation with strangers. He may seem to behave more according to his own needs rather than those of others.
As a result he may try to put himself at an advantage, even if it could possibly inconvenience those around him. The assertive personality is revealed by the height of the capital letters in comparison to the 'ascenders'. The subject uses a proportion of capitals which are higher than the other ascending letters. This indicates that he is more likely to speak out forthrightly to defend himself if under attack and is able to talk about personal matters without feeling too self-conscious.
In a quarrel he is likely to argue to defend his rights , even over quite trivial matters. He could even become aggressive if sufficiently provoked , but any attacks will be verbal rather than physical, taking the form of sarcasm or caustic remarks. The subject may make a good sales person, and is good at resisting sales talk. He is less likely to hesitate over complaining about shoddy goods or poor service.
He will also make a good host and can liven up a party.
The subject has some qualities of leadership, but in a position of power may not tolerate opinions which clash with his own. If he is prevented from expressing his views, or if he feels that he is not being taken seriously enough he may become irritated.

The handwriting shows a few signs of a perfectionist personality. Although generally more easy-going than the average person, the subject also seems more orderly and methodical, perhaps being a little over-concerned with small details, and fussy about trivial matters. He may sometimes seem undecided about the best course of action to take, and may appear to have some self-doubts.

Several 't' bars in the script point downwards, which indicates that the subject exhibits a certain degree of ambition.
He has an above average drive to obtain goals and objectives, and likes to succeed at things that he attempts. Obstacles are often regarded as challenges to be overcome, and he likes competition and action.

There are a few signs of aggression throughout the handwriting, which indicate a mildly aggressive personality.
The random pressure also used in the script indicates that the subject is more prone than average to emotional outbursts, and sometimes these emotional outbursts may be aggressive, taking the form of angry arguments or outbursts of temper.
As the writer has a high IQ, the chances are that aggression, when shown, will normally be expressed verbally, with sarcasm, caustic remarks and mockery.
When aggression is expressed indirectly, the subject will feel a need for revenge if slighted. He may harbour a grudge, while waiting for the appropriate moment to get his own back.

The handwriting shows some signs of expansiveness, and this is an indication of an extrovert personality. The writer has an above average need for space and dislikes being confined. This hunger for space is reflected in the script.
This expansiveness shows in the subject's social relationships. He is likely to be more comfortable in company than on his own, and perhaps takes life more lightly than the average person. He may become quite easily bored, and often yearns for change and variety.
He is likely to express his feelings and moods quite freely, and is reasonably unconcerned with disorder or lack of control.

Certain embellishments within the handwriting indicate an above average level of worldliness and sophistication. The subject may attempt to appear more poised or sophisticated than the average person.
He may seem emotionally detached and superficial in personal relationships, even if his feelings are deep and genuine. He may sometimes appear sceptical in his approach to life and possibly has a lower faith in human nature as a result.

The handwriting is very simplified, and this indicates that the subject is extremely intelligent (scoring 5 out of a possible 5 in the IQ categories). He has the intellectual capacity that would enable him to be successful in a career such as university professor, theoretical mathematician or computer systems analyst.

Emotionally, the subject may have a tendency to worry more than the average person, perhaps appearing somewhat nervous and excitable. He may not only worry about everyday problems, but over extreme and unlikely events.

There are some indications within the handwriting of compulsive behaviour.
Compulsiveness is an anxiety reducing strategy in which the subject makes a ritual out of many of the most trivial aspects of life. When attempting to solve problems which cause anxiety, he will attempt to do so by constant and repetitive efforts. This will be maintained, even if the problem turns out to be insoluble.
Such an exaggerated determination means that the subject is often regarded by others as being conscientious. However, because of these rigid problem solving strategies he finds it difficult to look at problems from a fresh angle and to consider a different method of approach. Often, this rigid problem solving procedure, whether at work or in personal relationships, is not an attempt to reach a solution but a defence reaction. Typical compulsions are checking the doors and windows a prescribed number of times each night, even if one check would be sufficient, worrying about 'bad' thoughts for fear that they will come true, and checking and re-checking every piece of work to avoid any possibility of mistake. All these, and many other forms of compulsive behaviour are best summed up as 'not being able to leave well alone'.
The subject's level of compulsion indicates that it may be threatening to dominate his existence. This should be taken as a sign to take life less seriously, to strive for less perfection, precision and order and to relax more often.

There are cases of isolated ambiguity throughout the script which shows that the subject is over-concerned with concealment. He is attempting to cover up, and keep aspects of his personality or private life hidden from view or cloaked in mystery.
This type of handwriting is found in professions which demand a high degree of confidence keeping, such as lawyers, bankers and doctors.
It is wrong to interpret isolated ambiguity as a sign of a deceitful personality, but it does show a need for the subject to hide some part of his personality or background which may cause embarrassment or anxiety.

There are indications in the handwriting that, at the time of writing, the subject was suffering from a reasonably high level of stress. These signs may have been produced because the stress was temporary, for example if he was upset, tired, or working against a deadline.
However, the subject may be living at an unacceptable level of stress - one which is beginning to affect his physical well-being.
These are warning signs in the handwriting, and indicate that the subject should pause and reflect on those aspects of his lifestyle which may be causing long-term difficulties. He should try to reduce them whenever possible, relax more frequently, check his diet, and perhaps take more exercise. Stress can be beneficial, but if allowed to get out of control, it may prove a hazard to mental and physical health."

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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The HGA of a Duck
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03/05/2020 7:12 pm  

@set-tetu-ra

lol I think this deserves its own thread in case it gets lost here. A lot of it does sound like A.C. and comically so. 🙂 


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Shiva
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04/05/2020 2:28 am  
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

"Stress can be beneficial, but if allowed to get out of control, it may prove a hazard to mental and physical health."

Many, if not all, of the stressful signs noted can be relieved with opiates. Cocaine would not necessarily be recommended.


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Set-Tetu-Ra
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04/05/2020 5:56 am  

I did the analysis on myself and it was insanely inaccurate. Not self denial inaccurate,  but "you like to talk to strangers and are super social". Like no, not even close. So who knows. 

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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christibrany
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04/05/2020 9:18 pm  

@set-tetu-ra

 

Mine was fairly accurate, I took a lot of detail in staring at an old writing I did from a year or so ago.  I made sure it was something I had just jotted down for myself, notes for an essay.   More accurate than my initial sample would have been which was a written exam.  

It said I had only 3/5 IQ 🙁 

This hit home lol : The subject has an above average physical and mental need for space around him and hates to be confined. When writing, this hunger for space reveals itself in a desire to cover as much paper as possible with his letters and words.
Expansiveness is also the cornerstone of his social relationships. He prefers company, such as a noisy party, rather than being left alone to watch television or read a book. He probably has many friendships, but all maintained at a fairly superficial level.
He prefers more excitement and risk than the average person, taking life lightly as a result. He probably appears impulsive, blurting out remarks without thinking first, buying goods on impulse, and making major decisions about his life on the whim of the moment. He could be easily bored and often yearns for change and variety. He is likely to freely express his feelings and moods, even if he tries to cover them up.

 

As with most online/superficial tests I give it perhaps a 75% accuracy. Which is fairly good for a computer programme.   

 

It also gave me some things that AC got, like the stress, and compulsive behaviour.  And some of those above things like need for space. 

Of course I believe one cannot TRULY 'judge' themselves, I think some impartial third party would have to look at the handwriting while filling out the form, not one'self.  


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Set-Tetu-Ra
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04/05/2020 10:41 pm  

I think I rushed mine, I'm going to do it again and take it nice and slow. 

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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Set-Tetu-Ra
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05/05/2020 12:44 am  

So AL I says it's the "threefold book of the law." What if this means the chapter, the old comment, and the new comment? Or chapter, Crowley comment, Child comment? 3 chapters and a commentary is definitely fourfold. 

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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The HGA of a Duck
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05/05/2020 1:47 am  
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

"threefold book of the law."

I'll just post this quick one here for now, I'll try to do a longer post on the "contradictions" thread.

This is actually quite cool:

(A=1 again) THREEFOLD = 93

We all know LA + ShT + AL = 31+31+31 = 93, but this could imply there are 3 English words that could be used in the same way.

You may even be able to answer your question by using QBL in this way, 3 x 31 being the "keys" here.


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Shiva
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05/05/2020 5:56 am  
Posted by: @duck

We all know LA + ShT + AL = 31+31+31 = 93

We all also know that this is a glaring example of mixed Arabic numbers and Roman numerals, perhaps the highest level of "Crowley Fiddling QBL" extant.

 


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Jamie J Barter
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05/05/2020 9:23 am  
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

I think I rushed mine, I'm going to do it again and take it nice and slow.

- As the bishop said to the actress?

N Joy


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Shiva
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05/05/2020 7:45 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

- As the bishop said to the actress?

What Bishop? Which Actress. Please be specific and define all terms as you go ... or you'll (JJB) be called on the carpet (red) to define your (common) terminology.


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Jamie J Barter
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06/05/2020 2:52 am  
Posted by: @shiva

What Bishop? Which Actress. ...

Silly boy octogenarian!

N joy


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ignant666
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06/05/2020 1:21 pm  

The US translation of the UK phrase "As the actress said to the bishop"/"As the bishop said to the actress" is "That's what she said!"

Each linguistic trope is used to transform some previous bit of speech into sexual innuendo.


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Shiva
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06/05/2020 6:16 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

Each linguistic trope is used to transform some previous bit of speech into sexual innuendo.

Oh, I see. It's the Crowley Syndrome, introduced by him to Europe in the early- to mid-20th century.

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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07/05/2020 12:52 am  

@ignant666

Sexual innuendo has always been part of British humour, maybe less so these days. Don't know if these classics ever made their way to your side of the pond, they'd be the prime example of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFAgDGHrdTI


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ignant666
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07/05/2020 1:23 am  
Posted by: @duck

Sexual innuendo has always been part of British humour

It has been known to come up in American humor as well...

I have heard of, but never before seen, "Carry On"; thanx. Makes Benny Hill look like Sartre.


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Shiva
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07/05/2020 2:26 am  
Posted by: @duck

Sexual innuendo has always been part of British humour,

Dirty-minded, potty-personae.

Now then, the suject was ...

Ordos who use One Chapter

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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07/05/2020 2:50 am  

@shiva

😊 Sorry for the diversion. If you think there's still some discussion left on this topic, please suggest something. I can't think of anything right now.


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Shiva
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07/05/2020 8:07 am  
Posted by: @shiva

Ordos who use One Chapter

According to our survey, the answer is ...

NONE


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 Anonymous
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07/05/2020 4:02 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

Well as some friends of mine know I have been stuck at Hod for quite some time. I thought I was at Yesod all this time.  Well, I keep flip-flopping my little fishy fins.

That said I have been stuck based (on the above sentence), on quirky characters who failed miserably in their spiritual hike.

I like to study characters so I don't have the same pitfalls they did.  Keep on swimming, right?

One could view it as using their prone bodies as shields over the pit of Because.

Like Swiss Army Man.
 
Posted by: @christibrany

Perhaps MAL/XON wouldn't like that. 

Successes should be celebrated.

 

Posted by: @christibrany

But I am not really about equality at all.

That sounds like an issue trying to get traction. Applicable to a mountain mystery. To Glory and Victory!

 

Posted by: @christibrany

Everyone is different down here in the trenches.   And sorry, Canadian buddy, but it's never going to change.  This is Malkuth.  It's how it was programmed.

Maybe it's your programmed viewpoint that isn't changing. Move the camera, change the record. Change is Stability. Change has and continues to happen in Malkuth. Even in the deterministic sense you're hinting at, or not; its the manifestation of the will of the people that shapes a culture and can successfully do so with the intent of equality while at the same time recognizing diversity. For it's through the continually increasing acknowledgment and understanding of differences where equality is discovered, established and maintained.

 

Posted by: @christibrany

We can be Civil, and Nice, to eachother, but each and every one of us, even Magisters and Exempt Adepts, are hiding 'bad thoughts.'  

 

While civil behaviour begins in thought before action it extends far beyond an individual's immediate surroundings when considering the cumulative social effect enforced by law and normalized through education and entertainment.

Learning not to act on impulse and purely for self-interest is an early education consideration.

In that sense maybe it's not Magisters and Exempt Adepts "hiding 'bad thoughts'" so much as having the ability to recognize and equilibriate thoughts. A mystery of the House of God maybe. Turris.

Your mentioning of Malkuth, Yesod and Hod brought to mind these quotes from Liber LXV

54.Then said Adonai: Thou hast the Head of the Hawk, and thy Phallus is the Phallus of Asar. Thou knowest the white, and thou knowest the black, and thou knowest that these are one. But why seekest thou the knowledge of their equivalence?

55. And he said: That my Work may be right.

- Chapter 1

 

4. Stooping down, dipping my wings, I came unto the darkly-splendid abodes. There in that formless abyss was I made a partaker of the Mysteries Averse.

5. I suffered the deadly embrace of the Snake and of the Goat; I paid the infernal homage to the shame of Khem.

6. Therein was this virtue, that the One became the all.

-Chapter 2

 

65. For I have found Thee alike in the Me and the Thee; there is no difference, O my beautiful, my desirable One! In the One and the Many have I found Thee; yea, I have found Thee.

- Chapter 3

 

 

OT:

 

Formula bits

 

Some like energy

Some like mass

some like the speed of light

and others like math.


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ignant666
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07/05/2020 4:14 pm  

An entirely sensible, and for once not too passive-aggressive, post- like a stopped clock only not right quite as often i suppose.


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Shiva
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07/05/2020 7:25 pm  

[sigh]


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Jamie J Barter
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08/05/2020 4:26 am  
Posted by: @shiva

[sigh]

Who d'ya think you're sighing at, from that lofty perch you're on?!

Now, just where were we, after Brit "customs" of Bishops and Actresses, Carry Ons and Benny Hill having been explained?  Although it was being suggested that

Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @shiva

Ordos who use One Chapter

According to our survey, the answer is ...

NONE

we had already earlier established that the S.O.T.O. (under Motta and David Bersson) "inclined" towards the Third.

A fresh question for the pot, if we're running short of material: Jack Parsons seemed to "incline" towards the First, by way of Babalon (=the secret Name of Nuit) but is there any sort of evidence this would this be in any way to the exclusion of the other Two?

Not sighingly yours,

NJoy

 


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Shiva
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08/05/2020 9:34 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Who d'ya think you're sighing at, from that lofty perch you're on?!

[moan] with regret.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

we had already earlier established that the S.O.T.O. (under Motta and David Bersson) "inclined" towards the Third.

Yeah. That was a really firm decision ... with all kinds of documented proof.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Jack Parsons seemed to "incline" towards the First, by way of Babalon (=the secret Name of Nuit) but is there any sort of evidence this would this be in any way to the exclusion of the other Two?

The man also built rockets. Rocketman is more suitable to Ch II ... even if he's building them to reach Nuit, that still makes him Hadit. In his 8=3 Annunciation, he called upon all Thelemites to join him in a Holy War against the Roman Catholic church - a bit wild for an 8=3, but let's not judge that part, and this sounds like it's Chapter III.

Nobody in their right mind is going to use only one chapter as their VSL (Very Sacred Liber), and nobody has produced evidence that some nitwit did so.

Inclinations are fine, but (so far) nobody seems to have one Chapter as any sort of official policy.

 

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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08/05/2020 12:21 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Jack Parsons seemed to "incline" towards the First, by way of Babalon

It sounded more like his "Book of Babalon" was a fourth chapter of AL with Babalon being the "sister" of Horus, her being needed to counteract the violent forces released by RHK, in his opinion. Its all very interesting, I guess but I don't think this philosophy has really taken off.


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Michael Staley
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08/05/2020 2:41 pm  
Posted by: @duck

It sounded more like his "Book of Babalon" was a fourth chapter of AL with Babalon being the "sister" of Horus, her being needed to counteract the violent forces released by RHK, in his opinion. Its all very interesting, I guess but I don't think this philosophy has really taken off.

Certainly Parsons considered it to be the fourth chapter, but in my opinion it has little in common with the three chapters received by Crowley in 1904. However, Parsons was - again, in my opinion - thinking in terms of Tetragrammaton, Babalon being the Hè Final, which would ameliorate the harshness, the Force & Fire, of Horus. The following comes from an unpublished essay by Parsons:

The Aeon of Horus is of the nature of a child. To perceive this, we must conceive of the nature of a child without the veil of sentimentality – beyond good and evil, perfectly gentle, perfectly ruthless, containing all possibilities within the limits of heredity, and highly susceptible to training and environment. But the nature of Horus is also the nature of force – blind, terrible, unlimited force. That is why the West stands in imminent danger of annihilation. That is why the West also stands in the possibility of the most rapid and tremendous evolution that the world has ever known. The balance must be love and understanding, or else all else fails. Now We have said enough for this place.

There is a parallel here with Achad, who similarly anticipated that the Incoming of the Aeon of Truth and Justice, the Ma-Ion, or Aeon of Maat, would ameliorate the Force & Fire of Horus. There is I think growing interest in Achad's work.

 


Alan_OBrien
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09/05/2020 10:00 pm  

I have always found the Book of Babylon very hard to read.

It reminds me of when a comedy show decides to do a sketch about Shakespeare, and they throw in loads of verilys and forsooths and thees and thous, either not knowing or not caring what Shakespeare really sounds like.

The Book of Babylon sounds to me like it was written by someone fully conversant with Liber AL and who thinks he'll have a go at his own little Liber.


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christibrany
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09/05/2020 11:20 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

Rocketman is more suitable to Ch II

@Shiva

 

Wh-wh-wh-what, do you mean Kim Jong-Eun? 

Also Romanised as Kim Jong-Un? 

 

I think his chapter is more chapter 3. 

 

😉

@alan_obrien

 

I agree with your assessment but I also think he did tap into a new, stronger version of the 93 Current, but just did not know how to express it.

Say wasn't ol' Jacko one of those grade skipping 'Magisters'? 


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Shiva
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10/05/2020 7:37 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

Kim Jong-Un?  

I think his chapter is more chapter 3.

I wrote ...

Posted by: @shiva

The man (Parson) also built rockets. Rocketman is more suitable to Ch II ... even if he's building them to reach Nuit, that still makes him Hadit.

I don't know if you misunderstood, or just had a spurious brain emission. There was no implication to Fatty Kim III, as the Chinese call him.

Posted by: @christibrany

Say wasn't ol' Jacko one of those grade skipping 'Magisters'? 

I have always been a great fan of JP of JPL and Agape Lodge. I do not recall reading anything about his Angel ... or even his hours of asana, pranayama, etc.

Jump Claimers ... every pooping one of them, those who we know so well. I understand there are actually initiates who work their way up the Tree. We don't hear about them, because they don't go around jump-claiming or earned-claiming. We know about all those other guys because they made public mention of their jump claim.

 

 


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frater_anubis
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10/05/2020 1:32 pm  
Posted by: @michael-staley

There is I think growing interest in Achad's work.

Hi Michael

I have been struggling with CSJ's Liber 31 during the lockdown. It's written in part as a diary of what was going on in his head in 1918 - ish and part as a commentary on Liber Al vel Legis. I believe Crowley was impressed. Is there any analysis of Fr Achad's efforts available? I would like to look into it further because some of it is very confusing

93

Johnny


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Shiva
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10/05/2020 6:52 pm  
Posted by: @frater_anubis

I would like to look into it further because some of it is very confusing

Achad's books were high quality. They started out "straight" enough with QBL analysis of various subjects. Then came the day he published a full-color book bearing an upside-down Tree of Life.

After that, his fellows started wondering if science could invent a new medication for schizophrenia. Later (late '30s, early '40s), members of Agape Lodge were certain he was "medico-legally insane."

The "peak" of the high-level drama was when Achad claimed 10=1 and started telling Therion, a mere 9=2, what to do.

Now, in retrospect, we find a growing interest in Achad's work, not the Drama Drama of Potentates.

The Aeon of Maat, like all the other Aeons, is a state. These states take turns imposing themselves on mass human reality. We can say, "This "X" Aeon is predominate now, or in "transition," but no matter what the era, we can always see examples of previous eras and cases of budding future Aeons.

It's all mixed up in the eternal, forward-moving, now.

 


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