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Atlantis, lost civilizations, precession, Hancock and Thelema.

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David Dom Lemieux
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Are you familiar with the theories of lost civilizations that mainstream academia laugh at? Basically Graham Hancock is the best person to check out for this sort of thing. It all relates to Atlantis myths, ancient megaliths, stone circles, myths about Niburu and Marduk, Gods (ie aliens) enslaving the ancestors of man and maybe engaging on genetic engineering on our ancestors, the real meaning of ancient flood myths, the 24000 year precessional wobble, the Grail, the false timeline of accepted academia, advanced technology edited out of history, the face pyramid on Mars, Giza and why it was really built, the 2012 Mayan Long Count, the Templars and the Masonic knowledge eon the dollar bill and much much more.. all thrilling stuff eh?

This sort of thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y39A0QuXPQY

What does knowledge of these Graham Hancock theories of lost civilizations have to do with Thelema, Liber Al and finding one's True Will?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
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What does knowledge of these Graham Hancock theories of lost civilizations have to do with Thelema, Liber Al and finding one’s True Will?

For you - given your adherence to the "Skeptical Thelema" outlook, where Thelema is apparently nothing more than a technique for detecting one's "autherntic preferences" - the answer would be "none at all". For those of us Thelemites who are occultists, then we find things like this to be interesting.

I don't assess everything by asking myself "what has this to do with finding my True Will?". There are several reasons for this.

In the first place, I do not think that True Will is something I look for; rather, it finds me.

In the second place, by following an apparently oblique or obscure path, I might stumble across something which turns out to be of great value to me along what might be termed my main path; I can provide examples if you wish.

In the third place, I have plenty of interests outside of Thelema, such as Advaita, Buddhism, Taoism, Spare, etc.

In the fourth place, I have plenty of other interests such as Arsenal Football Club, the 1840 Two-penny Blue stamp, politics, walking, running, etc which, again, I do not evaluate in terms of their Thelemic utility.


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David Dom Lemieux
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In the second place, by following an apparently oblique or obscure path, I might stumble across something which turns out to be of great value to me along what might be termed my main path; I can provide examples if you wish.

Yrs please.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
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@dom

OK, one example which springs to mind:

Around 2007 I attended Andy Collins's 'Psychic Questing' Conference in Avebury. One of the tasks we were set was to locate an item which Andy and his wife had buried. I decided to try something I had never tried before, which was to "ask" the land. I thus closed my eyes and mentally made my appeal. Immediately after, I heard cries from a flock of birds overhead. I opened my eyes, looked in the direction of the sound of the birds, and directly in my vision was the base of one of many large standing stones in this particular field. I then knew that this was where the item was buried.

And thus it proved to be. There were thirty or forty participants in this particular project, and through several stages of elimination there were two of us who got it right. The other was a woman who was dowsing with a pendulum.

This incident made me more keenly aware of instinct and intuition, and of how interconnected all phenomena are. It's one thing to know this intellectually, quite another to feel it and for the insight to permeate awareness. As such it was one more step along the way to where I am now, which is an ever-keener awareness of the affinity of Advaita and Thelema.


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David Dom Lemieux
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@MichaelStaley

This incident made me more keenly aware of instinct and intuition, and of how interconnected all phenomena are. It’s one thing to know this intellectually, quite another to feel it and for the insight to permeate awareness. As such it was one more step along the way to where I am now, which is an ever-keener awareness of the affinity of Advaita and Thelema.

Thanks for sharing that. How does it relate to the Hancokian preoccupations documented in the OP ( Atlantis myths, ancient megaliths, stone circles, myths about Niburu and Marduk etc), and their relationships to Thelema and True Will? Maybe your connectivity to the land is the same activity that led people to construct Silbury Hill and Stonehenge?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
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How does it relate to the Hancokian preoccupations documented in the OP ( Atlantis myths, ancient megaliths, stone circles, myths about Niburu and Marduk etc), and their relationships to Thelema and True Will?

It doesn't have a direct link. The anecdate was intended as an illustration of how something which might be considered oblique to one's path has a direct impact.


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David Dom Lemieux
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What about these number codes built into the pyramids and myths? Were these numbers placed there as a way of showing us that they knew how large the planet was and exactly where they were on it in terms of latitude and longitude?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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D: Were these numbers placed there as a way of showing us that they knew how large the planet was and exactly where they were on it in terms of latitude and longitude?

Probably. Who knows? It was a long time ago.


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David Dom Lemieux
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18 minutes in this lecture, we have maps which clearly show Antarctica but these maps were drawn centuries before it was discovered. Furthermore they are said to be based on even earlier sources.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wJw1DcI2e4

Bearded white men in central America centuries before Columbus?

52 mins in, ancient architectural anomalous knowledge of the value of Pi? However it is accepted that Egyptians had a general estimate of Pi. I think Hancock is disputing that.

Anyway stones weighing 400 tonnes moved around by apparently Neolithic peoples in south America?

57 mins in, astronomical precessional maths codes placed in Pyramid's design.

I'm surprised that AC never discussed this sort of thing.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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David aka dom asked my opinion of this Hancock person recently in another thread. Having never heard of him, i did not reply.

Now that i've seen a bit of his work discussed here, i read the wikipedia article about him, and also the one about his "Giza-Orion correlation theory", and the "Talk" pages associated with both articles.

He appears to be a credulous idiot, a fast-buck artist taking advantage of such persons, or most likely, a bit of both ("getting high on his own supply", as the late Mr. Smalls so eloquently put it).

The BBC Standards department's response to a claim by Hancock that his work had been misrepresented sums up his work:

The programme had created the impression that he [Hancock] was an intellectual fraudster who had put forward half baked theories and ideas in bad faith, and that he was incompetent to defend his own arguments. Adjudication: [The Commission] finds no unfairness to Mr Hancock in these matters.

How can anyone, let alone our doughty acolyte of "skepticism", take his nonsense seriously?

One reason "AC never discussed this sort of thing" may be that he died many decades before Hancock et al. made up all this stuff.


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Tiger
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I’m surprised that AC never discussed this sort of thing.

How does this sort of thing help Thelema ?


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belmurru
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Although too early for Hancock (or Erich Von Däniken, or Zechariah Sitchin), AC might have read Augustus Leplongeon, who published crackpot theories on the Maya in the 1880s. It is to him we owe "the lost continent of Mu"; he thought the Egyptians were descendants of the Maya, that the Maya civilization goes back 35,000 years, etc.

AC did write on Atlantis, although obviously, like with his non-committal attitude to the reality of reincarnation, he could have argued it was only a kind of useful metaphor.

Generally he followed scientific consensus, but Egypt is relevant to magick, so I don't know how he would have treated Hancock et al., or the new mythology of extraterrestrial aliens, which began developing shortly after his death.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Thanks belmurru. This sort of knowledge is said to have been known by Masons, define them as you will so I would've thought that AC would have had access to it.

Ignant, I think you need to do more than one wikipedia article. Read some books or at least check some youtube lectures on this subject before you side with corrupt organizations like the BBC.

There is interesting possible evidence for some sort of third party civilization that maybe founded Egypt and the great South American civilizations. The similarity in their religious imagery is startling particularly the Oannes 'man bag'. The similarities in the number codes placed in their architecture (might I add primitive people moving 400 tonne weights with rope and then somehow hoisting them up) is also pretty odd.

Are you aware that the builders of Giza left number codes in it which strongly suggest they knew where Giza was/is in relation to the earth ie the exact longitudinal and latitudinal mappings? A lot of these megaliths definitely seem far older than modern archeologists are prepared to accept ie archeological ego just won't let go.

Having said that I'm not sure about those carvings of mastodons in those temples.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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No, david, i will not require further information about Hancock's work to conclude he is a practitioner of woo-woo, pseudo-science, and crack-pottery. He is an obvious loony or fraud. Do you have no capacity for critical thinking whatever?

Where is S.'. H.'. Fra. Los when we need him? I can't imagine your former "Master" would react any better to this recent enthusiasm than he did to your advocacy of "Space Migration, Increased Intelligence, Life Extension" a few years back.


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Tiger
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"D: Were these numbers placed there as a way of showing us that they knew how large the planet was and exactly where they were on it in terms of latitude and longitude?

Probably. Who knows? It was a long time ago.

A long time ago can flash by fast .
It’s good keep notes in the Lab .
The biped seems to be reaching the stage of navigating the labyrinth and reading the diagram by referencing it to things it’s figured out on it’s own .


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David Dom Lemieux
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In the original programme, an astronomer said that, for the match of position and stars to work, Egypt would have to be turned upside down. Mr Hancock had an explanation for this apparent contradiction which was not included in the programme. The commission said this omission was unfair on the author.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1377806/BBC-re-edits-Horizon-after-watchdogs-attack.html

The BBC apologised to him for their biased programme

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Yes, david, the BBC did apologize for failing to include one minor counterargument by Hancock to the utter annihilation of his pseudo-scientific gibberish they had shown. They did not by any means "apologize to him for their biased program".

They then re-edited one small portion of the documentary to reflect this omission, and re-broadcast the show eviscerating him.

Did you bother to read the article you linked to? Here is the sixth paragraph in its entirety:

The commission upheld one of his complaints and the BBC is compelled to broadcast the adjudication. Concerned that this would give the impression that the central thesis of the original programme was wrong, the BBC has chosen to broadcast a "director's cut" on Wednesday at 9pm on BBC2. The programme ends with a scientist declaring that available evidence does not fit Mr Hancock's hypothesis.

Once again, the BBC Standards department found "no unfairness to Mr. Hancock", and nothing factually incorrect, in what Hancock characterized as the BBC's depiction of him as "an intellectual fraudster who had put forward half baked theories and ideas in bad faith" and a person who was "incompetent to defend his own arguments".


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Shiva
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D: Bearded white men in central America centuries before Columbus?

Vikings.

All; Skepticism, loonies, woo-wwos.

Forget VonDaniken (he admitted that he made some of his stuff up). Forget Hancock (he wrote after my journeys). Forget all this armchair prognostication and remote assessment. Go there and see for yourself. I did.

Example: 400-ton blocks, fitted together so precisely (in complex joints) that a knife blade cannot be inserted in the joints? Example: Nazca lines that seemingly go nowhere, but visible as a whole only from the air ... which, when followed (by airplane) point directly at temples located far away. Neolithic people erecting these sites? Let's try ONE Hancock tale:

Premise: Starting with Giza, there are the remains of massive stone temples located at some interval (75* I think) on a longitudinal line that circles the globe. But one such site is located in ocean water. So he and his entourage went to the closest island and asked the natives, "Say, are there any old stone megaliths around here?" The natives replied, "Sure, right over there --->" So they went over there ---->, looked down into/under the water, and saw megaliths on the ocean floor.

The Piri Riis [sic?] maps (Columbus' navigator) clearly do show Antarctica ... the hardline coat, not covered with ice, suggest that Columbus new exactly where he was going.

Now, I haven't been to all the sites, and I haven't done any scientific measurements, but I have seen enough to indicate that somebody built some impressive stuff, and it (they) was built before the (prehistoric) natives had the capacity to perform to lift, cut, and place such gigantic (mega) stones (liths). I am not saying that aliens did this. It could have been a bnch of techo-advanced humans in a previous civilization.

I am saying that folks are jumping to conclusions without going there, or even before reading the material and doing the math as presented in that material. Armchair scientists and archaeologists are comparable to armchair magicians. Comments based on reviews, wikis, and "common sense" are comparable to Colin Wilson trying to shoot down Liber AL without studying the book and the Commentaries.

Where do the legends come from that describe "gods?" AC said, all these gods were men; their divinity comes from mythopoeia ("myth-making" - sic?]. Where do the Hindu legends of vimana (flying machines) come from?

I don't have the answers but, to me, there's a strong indication that man/superman/alienman did some heavy-duty building long before our "modern" (circa 3000 BC) ancestors started writing things down.

"Let him [dis]credit nothing that does not lie within the realm of his own experience" (or words similar to that).


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David Dom Lemieux
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Yes Shiva I don't think Ignant knows what he's talking about or dealing with. Why would the horseshoe shaped Stonehenge point exactly to Giza?

I will provide some uncanny maths later, maths that suggests that the builders of Giza knew where they were exactly on earth and how wide the planet is.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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I certainly don't know much about Hancock (nor do i care to invest my limited time on this earth in learning more), and am not even an "armchair archaeologist".

However, I am a non-armchair scientist who knows some archaeologists, and believes that they are doing real science. When all persons professionally trained in a certain discipline unanimously label someone a crackpot and a charlatan, i take them seriously.

I was asked my opinion, have now offered it, and will now bow out until i think i have something to contribute to the discussion here.

Shiva raises some interesting points (as usual).


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belmurru
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I have just watched the BBC Horizon episode in question -
www.dailymotion.com/video/x10qjc2

I completely agree with Hancock's critics and the debunking he got.


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Tiger
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I will provide some uncanny maths later, maths that suggests that the builders of Giza knew where they were exactly on earth and how wide the planet is.

When you succeed in (reading into) attributing maths to prove your point it will reveal your math skills .
When you uncover that these structures have information new and innovative; that would be impressive .


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Shiva
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D: Why would the horseshoe shaped Stonehenge point exactly to Giza?

I don't know, but there's certain facts that can bear further research.

Bel: I completely agree with Hancock’s critics and the debunking he got.

Wikis & BBC are mainstream media sources. If one chooses to surf the net in relation to "Aleister Crowley," one will usually find that he is not only The Wickedest Drug-addicted, Sexually-depraved Man in the World (which he was - haha), but that he was a Satanist and part of the power-elite Illuminati. Any reference to previous civilizations is automatically de-bunkered by modern scientists. Most references to Crowley causes Christians to foam at the mouth.

In relation to Hancock, I only read his earlier book (Heaven's Mirror - 1998) (filled with pics and facts and math). The facts and math alone are amazing ... as Dom is pointing out a few of them, with hopefully more to come. Like Ignant, I don't have much unvaluable time to make a case for or against Hancock.

Hancock presents FACTS. These are verifiable - if one has unvaluable time. Hancock draws CONCLUSIONS ... well, these are certainly subject to differences of opinion. I don't support his CONCLUSIONS. I am only interested in his verifiable FACTS. I can draw my own conclusions. I hope you readers and posters don't draw your conclusions via hearsay.

Valid CONCLUSIONS (by the individual) are arrived at by (1) Going to these places in person, or (2) Verifying the FACTS (online, in-person, or by photos), or (3) Doing or verifying the MATH by one's own self.

Oh, hell man! You're not suggesting that I do some WORK before I make up my mind. I'd rather just listen to what the "experts" say. I believe in them, the Sun, and the Holy Ghosts.

Heaven's Mirror
was really straightforward with pics, data & math. After that (maybe before), he cranked out a bunch of books (that I have not read), and it is certainly possible that he went off the deep end. I don't know. I only KNOW that there are enigmas in hard stone matter that bear investigation ... if one is even interested in (pre)historical "stuff."

I am almost ashamed (blush) to be associating with folks who look at mainstream media and wikis and draw hard conclusions. Not one person has gone there (to these sites) - at least nobody's confessed to have done so - and nobody is claiming to have actually read the (original) material and done or confirmed/denied the MATH themselves. Well, Dom (the original skeptic) is poking around now. We'll see what he comes up with.

Remember, the FACTS are FACTS, but the CONCLUSIONS may vary. If in doubt, please consult your doctor.


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ignant666
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I said i would not, but have now emulated belmurru and watched the BBC doc too. They bend over backwards to give Hancock the benefit of every doubt, and he still comes up empty every time.

I don't see how anyone could possibly take this person seriously.

He is transparently full of crap, and clearly making it up as he goes along. He claims every correlation he can find as incontrovertible proof, and discounts all the more numerous non-correlations as "Well, they were not anal-retentive bureaucrats, they were being intuitive and creative".

"Holy fudge factors and Texas sharpshooting, Batman!", as the Boy Wonder might note.

Here are two exciting hypotheses david might want to get right on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welteislehre


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Shiva
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Upon reflections, reflected in my 4-hour marathon to gether up and dispose leaves from the yard, I realized that there is more than one subject under scrutiny here. The catchall title of this thread is "Atlantis, lost civilizations, precession, Hancock and Thelema."

"Atlantis" is just a name. It seems to have originated with Plato, who described a fictional island lying "beyond the Pillars of Hercules." There is no evidence of a sunken island (let alone a continent) west of Gibraltar, nor in the mid_Stlantic. Amusingly, the Atlantic Ocean seems to have been named after Plato's isle.

There was probably an ancient, unrecorded civilization, but it probably (certainly?) did not call itself "Atlantis."

Crowley wrote a book, "Atlantis," but it was a novel. Sort of an archeological novel that was more of a description than a novel as we know it.

"Lost civilizations" implies "previous" but "no longer in place" civilizations. This is indicated my enigmatic megalithic structures. This subject interests me. These megaliths do exist, so they're a FACT. Various dimensions, angles, geometric coincidences, and spatial relationships between said megaliths can be very interesting ... if one is interested.

"Precession" is just one of the data that is included within the math that is related to the megaliths, and needs no comment (by me) at this time.

"Hancock" is a living dude who hands out lots of data, pictures, and FACTS related to said megaliths. He also draws some CONCLUSIONS, and that's where the problem with him comes into play. I am not ashamed (no blush) to associate with people who think he's full of waste material, if he announces inaccurate CONCLUSIONS. I am only ashamed of associates who say there are no megaliths, no unusual data relating to them, and no chance of anybody being around a long time ago who knew how to build them.

For example, Hancock appears to claim that Jachin and Boaz, the twin pillars of Solomon's Temple, are somehow related to the twin towers of the World Trade Center. Well, yes, they are both tall slender liths ... but any cosmic connection is stretching our credibility.

Personally, the first pic I saw of the Trade Center getting blasted reminded me of The Blasted Tower, Atu XVI. As an archetypal symbol displayed openly on the physical plane, it might catch one's inner attention, but as proof some cosmic connection (other than superficially) with the Hebre Edifice ... ?

"Thelema" has very little, if anything, to do with Lost Atlantis and Graham Hancock.


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David Dom Lemieux
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There is a forgotten system of measurement used in antiquity known as the sacred cubit. It is roughly 25 inches, Newton was obsessed with it.

The great pyramid's square perimeter equals 9,140.7 inches ie 365.242 sacred cubits and there are 365.242 days in the Earth's solar tropical year. If correct the accuracy here is uncanny. I must admit this idea of the earth's perimeter measurements embodied within the pyramid is found by dividing and then multiplying "significant" numbers to find a scalar representation. I am not so sure that this is not some kind of confirmation bias using these 'helping' numbers.

However if you consider that the ratio of 22/7 is found within the Stonehenge trilithons is it just a coincidence that they show the shape of the "Greek" letter Pi? The top is 7 cubits and the two stones underneath are 22 cubits high.

Back to this third party ancient lost civilization. Apparently the Sumerians spoke of a god who came from the sea to teach them civilization. http://www.oannes.com/beginning.html Look at that strange bag he is carrying. I recently watched a Hancock interview in which he showed an astoundingly similar god with that same strange 'man bag' thing and with a fish's tail only this was an ancient south American culture. I'm sure you're aware that Cortes was able to manipulate the south American peoples by exploiting their prophecies about the return of white bearded gods from the ocean? Again, ok i guess it could be classed as a stretch but knowledge of pi and phi seems to be a lot older than academia would have us think.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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David Dom Lemieux
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Apologies for double post but note how "the experts " in the BBC in that documentary fail to mention how the Egyptians were obsessed with Sirius/Orion's Belt. Surely i don't have to tutor anyone here about that?

You can find all kinds of bizarre gematria in these ancient buildings. Google it if you don't have the appropriate book.

Here's a taster. It has been long known that the character Jesus hit puberty and went to Egypt for some sort of learning or initiation. It is believed that the rabbi cabalists who wrote the Bible took their cue from Egyptian initiates and scholars from Egypt's ancient past.

Google Christ's talk about "mustard seed" and how it is a hidden reference to Giza. An ancient nickname for anyone called Peter took the nickname 'Rocky'. Why? Simon the fisherman did not have a name that was gematria-appropriate so Christ renamed him Peter ("ye shall be my rock" etc). This has perplexed ignorant ego-bound scholars for centuries. What these dipshits don't understand is that Peter in Greek =755. The base perimeter of the great pyramid is 755 feet long. One little strange coincidence? Well no actually.

Rocky in gematria =755. Peter would be the cornerstone of Christ's new church. Peter was told to cast his net and Christ would wield his magic to help him catch an abundant amount of fish (John 21:11). He caught 153 fish. What a bizarre fucking piece of exactitude right there.

The Grand Gallery in the great pyramid rises at an angle of 26 degrees exactly 153 feet. 153 is the exact number of the layers of masonry above the King's chamber and if 17 steps up to the entrance would continue up to the peak there would be 153 of them. The sum total of digits from 1 to 17=-153.

In Revelation we are told that the New Jerusalem is constructed in a large square perimeter being 12000 furlongs i.e. 31,680 feet. If we draw a square around the Earth's circumference to fit exactly around the Equator the distance is 31,680 miles. At Stonehenge the width of each lintel is 31.680 inches and the circumference of the lintel ring (if it was completed) would be 316.8 feet. Coincidence?

5,040 is the exact measurement of the ancient Greek mile in Imperial feet. i could go on as the measurements 3,168, 316.8 and 31,680 are all prominent in the layout of Glastonbury Abbey, the site of the first Christian church anywhere in the world. The 12 hides of Glaston by the Domesday Book were always exempt from taxes. It has always been held with awe and special regard and is known as the English Jerusalem.

I could go on and on. I haven't got to the Mayan architecture yet.

Somehow learned experts dismiss and conveniently ignore these uncanny facts. You would have to be moron not to admit that some sort of internationally known sacred geometry and meticulous astronomical knowledge has not gone into the planning of these great buildings.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Didn't the ancient Egyptians and Israelites use the cubit, not the foot, as the unit of measurement?

All your "Coincidence? I think not!" numerology games depend on a unit of measurement not used by the pyramid builders or "rabbi cabalists".

It is astonishing that the person posting this stuff was very recently berating others here for being mush-minded occultists with poor critical thinking skills.


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ignant666
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Before david rushes to point out that the post immediately preceding the one to which i was replying is in cubits, and not feet, let me just say "Exactly".

Cubits, feet, whatever unit comes up with the "right" (ie desired proof of "sacred geometry") answer, plus any needed fudge factor of course.

That these same games can be played substituting telephone books for the Bible, and the layout of Manhattan for that of Giza, Stonehenge, or Angkor Wat, may provide evidence of the underlying qabalistic unity of all creation and all human endeavors, or perhaps of the immense capacity of some for self-delusion.


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Tiger
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@dom
Why don’t you write a book and make some money .

Have you been to Egypt ?
Do you know what size foot Jesus had ?

Are you better off now that you did the work out ?


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David Dom Lemieux
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Holman Christian Standard Bible. John 21:11

So Simon Peter got up and hauled the net ashore, full of large fish--153 of them. Even though there were so many, the net was not torn

http://www.tribnet.org/cgi-bin/article.cgi?function=display_article&article_id=133

A good article on the matter (albeit a bit wacky). Decide for yourself if this is numerical "fudging".

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Here is a site by a professionally-trained archaeologist that contains an extensive debunking of some of Hancock's poor scholarship, tendentious and sloppy methods (notably his frequent tendency to repeat errors derived from secondary sources, showing he has not checked the primary sources his sources rely on), near-total ignorance of the mainstream scholarship he imagines he debunks (most of the "ancient mysteries mainstream scholars cannot explain" are actually well-explained and extensively documented with real evidence), and much else:

https://badarchaeology.wordpress.com/


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Shiva
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Ig: Here is a site by a professionally-trained archaeologist that contains an extensive debunking of some of Hancock’s poor scholarship, tendentious and sloppy methods (notably his frequent tendency to repeat errors derived from secondary sources, showing he has not checked the primary sources his sources rely on) ...

There were several (other) sources giving info/data on pyramids, etc, long before Hancock lifted his pen for his first (mystery) book - 1990 e.v.. These may be the primary (secondary) (read: other) sources to which you refer.

I think we have adequately perused and/or examined Hancock. His (or anyone else's) FACTS are verifiable by digging in deeper. I think we can safely dismiss Hancock's CONCLUSIONS and THEORIES, and hopefully we can dismiss him.

I now remember that I really liked his Heaven's Mirror, but when I looked deeper into his work (a few years ago), by going to his website, I found strange conclusions with which I did not agree. I therefore dismissed further research or quoting from him and have not used him as a source for anything.

I also find it strange that he offers many books that are authored "with" another author. There's nothing wrong with that, but why is he using so many "with"s? To me, this suggests his popular name is being used to promote books, but other folks' ideas are being set forth.

It is common for popular authors to do a "with" some good author, but these usually appear when the primary, popular author is getting older and no longer has the will or capacity to crank out more books.

Hopefully, we can dump "Atlantis" and "Hancock" and just get down to numbers, ratios, directions, and cubits ... not to dismiss "feet" ... as furnished by Dom (who has the time available to post this stuff). Also hopefully, that he sticks to FACTS that are verifiable (or not) and avoids CONCLUSIONS made by Graham, et al.

We can draw our own conclusions. My personal conclusion is that somebody left a qliphoth of megaliths behind for us to wonder about. Maybe it was aliens, or an advanced humanity, but I certainly don't conclude "who" it was. The data and math, when accurate, is rather interesting.


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ignant666
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It seems to that on some level, there has to be something to "sacred geometry" claims. When you build a thing, it has to have some certain dimensions (in whatever measuring system you are using).

If you attach significance to numbers, as many cultures are known to have done, then it is not a huge leap to conclude that, within the limits of what is technically achievable, one might well pick significant numbers for those dimensions.

The problem with trying to retroactively detect and interpret such phenomena is one we have often discussed in other contexts- the fact that evolution has equipped us unfeathered bipeds with extraordinary abilities to recognize patterns, including ones that weren't there until we "recognized" them.


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belmurru
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Ignant666 -

"It seems to that on some level, there has to be something to “sacred geometry” claims. When you build a thing, it has to have some certain dimensions (in whatever measuring system you are using)."

Try William Stirling's The Canon (1897), one of the earliest and most extensive expositions using this hermeneutic. A section on the Great Pyramid begins on page 199.
https://archive.org/details/cu31924028956262


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ignant666
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Thank you, belmurru. That stuff just makes my head swim. I am reminded of Fulcanelli, though i recall him making more sense when i read him years ago; it may have been the drugs.

The rather fluid use of feet, cubits, or inches, and the somewhat difficult-to-decipher message of all these measures in the Pyramid section you point to seems typical of the genre. I would bet Stirling is one of Hancock's sources, most likely at second or third hand.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Thank you, belmurru. That stuff just makes my head swim...................

Ok well don't be overwhelmed by numbers. Forget the bombardment of facts/numbers for a minute. Yes i know Hancock looks like a liar with his attempt to look for the patterns of Draco in Asian temples but don't be so dismissive...yet. Analyse the following basic alleged info from that website taking into the account the passage from the Book of Revelations about the New Jerusalem being 12000 furlongs squared;

Revelation 21:16King James Version (KJV)
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

Now the simple info from that website link on how 12000 furlongs is directly related to the earth's perimeter and how these numbers appear to, dare I say, show some sort of intelligent design at work and that the rabbis and mayans seem to latch onto this;

IF I WERE TO TELL YOU THAT OUR SUN AND SOLAR SYSTEM ORBIT 360 DEGREES AROUND THE GALACTIC CENTER OF THE MILKY WAY EVERY 220,000,000 YEARS, AND THAT WHEN YOU, multiply the two as factors it produces a product of either 79,200,000,000 degrees or 79,200,000,000 days if each year were configured as a 360-day “prophetic year” as the “Ancient Hebrews” once used for their calendars, well, your head may commence swirling a bit.

Then again, this might generate a “ho-hum.” A closer look confirms that these first four digits (7920) are a fractal/resemblance of Earth’s 7,920-mile diameter. It’s also the length in feet of Teotihuacán’s “Avenue of the Dead”/District twenty-five miles northeast of Mexico City.

If a square were drawn around the Earth whereby each of its foursquare edges bore the 7,920-mile figure, its perimeter would be 31,680-miles. This “3168” figure is virtually ubiquitous throughout the ancient world, ipso facto its declaration is all over the New Jerusalem in that 7,920,000 ft. x foursquare = 31,680,000 ft. or “3168.”

Yes, the galactic orbit of the solar system’s “7920” mimics the primary dimension of the New Jerusalem’s 12,000 furlong height, breadth and length (each dimension as “7920”) or 12,000 furlongs x 660 ft. (1 furlong) is equal to 7,920,000 feet or, again, the “7920” degrees/years of our solar system’s journey around the galactic center of our Milky Way; while, simultaneously, the “21” is wholly engaged with the “Wall of the New Jerusalem” whose measurement is 144 SC or 2.1 ft. x 144 SC = 302.4 ft. (See: Revelation 21:16-17).

By the way Hancock smoked pot day and night for 25 years flat he said.

Draw from that what ye will lol.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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The drugs i mentioned that made Fulcanelli appear to make sense were somewhat stronger than cannabis.

Your example switches measurement units (and orders of magnitude) as needed to come up with the "right" numbers, and leaves us saying "So what?". Both qualities seems typical of most "sacred geometry".

I suggest review of these articles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

PS: I just sent the link to Stirling's The Canon that belmurru supplied to a mathematician pal (who was very fascinated by the Abramelin talismans when i showed them to him); i will report back on any reactions.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Your example switches measurement units (and orders of magnitude) as needed to come up with the “right” numbers, and leaves us saying “So what?”. Both qualities seems typical of most “sacred geometry”.

Why do you keep harping on about sacred numbers like they are some alternative spaced out method designed specifically for fraudsters to allow for any amount of fudging? Just read and verify the figures in my last post. Don't you know that the sacred numbers are derived from old (yes obsolete) standards of measurements?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_units_of_measurement

Christ or Moses or Abraham didn't say things like "ye tribe of Israelites shall walk 77.6 kilometres and then fetch me 77.3 litres of milk and 14 kilograms of honey" etc etc.

Likewise your garage mechanic doesn't speak in terms of your car having done 70 or 65 furlongs a year does he? No, because standards of measurement have always been modified fro civilization to civilization. Furlongs are out now, miles and kilometres are in. The Hebrew prophets and probably all ancient scholars saw a year as 360 days. Did you know that? Probably not. In other words for them it would make sense that a 360 degree complete circle would also be reflected in one complete year. http://www.360calendar.com/bible-prophecy-360-days-calendar-not-edited.htm Likewise, regarding that, calendars change don't they? Our leap year calendar is not so old when considered in terms of the entire development of human history.

The ANCIENT temples and writers of these religious scripts were around in ANCIENT times. You have to do a little bit of mental adjustment to get that but somehow you're failing to.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Obviously i am aware that there are different systems of measurement, and that we must convert among them.

My objection is not to sacred geometricians converting among different units, but rather that significance is found with whatever unit gives it- in your example, sometimes miles matter, sometimes feet matter. Pick one!

Also, of course, your example concerns no temples but rather the universe. Nonetheless, it points out that the number in feet of something given in the Bible in furlongs is the same as some other number in miles, and another number in degrees (as long as we ignore orders of magnitude).


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David Dom Lemieux
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My objection is not to sacred geometricians converting among different units, but rather that significance is found with whatever unit gives it- in your example, sometimes miles matter, sometimes feet matter. Pick one!

You're seeing goal-post shifting by don't of wanting to see goal-posts shifting.

Look, the people who wrote Revelations seemed to knew how wide the god-damned Earth is. They stated it symbolically in furlongs.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Why did they state the width of "the god-damned Earth" in miles (a unit they did not use, as you pointed out a couple posts ago) in their symbolic statement in furlongs?

7290 miles is 58,319 furlongs, or 38,491,200 feet, or 18,329,142.85714286 sacred cubits.


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Tiger
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"We shall, therefore, conclude that it was the object of the builders, by this simple geometrical figure to set up an enduring monument, exemplifying by its measures and numbers those canonical laws of Egypt, alluded to by Plato, which, it is supposed, were the pattern and source of all our later philosophical and theological systems. It accordingly follows that this remarkable structure is an exact embodiment of the universe, geometrically reduced to a pyramidal form, and exhibiting the true aspect of the cosmic system as it appeared and was known to the Egyptians at the time of its foundation. This view is borne out by the opinion of John Greaves, the old Oxford astronomer, from whose work on “English Weights and Measures” we quote the following: “According to Arabic traditions, one of the pyramids is the sepulchre of Seth . . . and it seems probable that the pyramids are the pillars of Seth. And these pillars of Seth, according to Josephus, were in the very same place where Manetho placed the pillars of Thoth, called Seiread.”The words of Josephus respecting these pillars are: “They (the children of Seth) were the inventors of that peculiar sort of wisdom which is concerned with the heavenly bodies and their order. And that their inventions might not be lost before they were sufficiently known, upon Adam’s prediction that the world was to be destroyed at one time by the force of fire, and at another time by the violence and quantity of waters, they made two pillars, the one of brick the other of stone; they inscribed their discoveries upon them both, that, in case the pillar of brick should be destroyed by the flood, the pillar of stone might remain, and exhibit those discoveries to mankind;"

The Canon pg 201,202 pdf version

Seth lived to the age of 912
Hopefully someday sacred geometricians will find information in those magnificent megaliths that is new information to mankind .


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Tiger
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I’m surprised that AC never discussed this sort of thing.

I know not who I am; I know not whence I came;
I know not whither I go; I seek but What I do
not know!
I am blind & bound; but I have heard one cry
Ring through Eternity; Arise & follow me!

Asar Un-nefer! I invoke
The four-fold Horror of the Smoke.
Unloose the Pit! by the dread Word
Of PowerÄthat Set-Typhon hath heardÄ SAZAZSAZAZADANATASANSAZAZ

(Pronounce this backwards. But it is very dangerous. It opens up the Gates of Hell.)

LIBER DCLXXI vel PYRAMIDOS

4. The aims of the O.T.O. can only be understood fully by its highest initiates; but it may be said openly that it teaches Hermetic Science or Occult Knowledge, the Pure and Holy Magick of Light, the Secrets of Mystic attainment, Yoga of all forms – Gnana Yoga, Raja Yoga, Bhakta Yoga and Hatha Yoga, and all other branches of the secret Wisdom of the Ancients.

In its bosom repose the Great Mysteries; its brain has resolved all the problems of philosophy and of life.

It possesses the secret of the Stone of the Wise, of the Elixir of Immortality, and of the Universal Medicine.

Liber LII


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David Dom Lemieux
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Why did they state the width of “the god-damned Earth” in miles (a unit they did not use, as you pointed out a couple posts ago) in their symbolic statement in furlongs?
7290 miles is 58,319 furlongs, or 38,491,200 feet, or 18,329,142.85714286 sacred cubits.

opening page of Chapter 26, Hall of the Gods by Nigel Appleby; https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hall-Gods-Discover-Knowledge-Ancients/dp/0434005010

In Revelation we are told that the New Jerusalem is constructed in a large square perimeter being 12000 furlongs i.e. 31,680 feet. If we draw a square around the Earth’s circumference to fit exactly around the Equator the distance is 31,680 miles. At Stonehenge the width of each lintel is 31.680 inches and the circumference of the lintel ring (if it was completed) would be 316.8 feet. Coincidence?

https://www.mathplanet.com/education/pre-algebra/inequalities-and-one-step-equations/calculating-the-area-and-the-perimeter

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/equator

This book was mysteriously suddenly dropped by the publisher apparently. It's about the return of a massive end of the world cataclysm which occurs at the end of each zodiacal precessional cycle....megaliths..Oannes..Marduk..Nibiru..Mayans..Egyptians..Stonehenge sacred geometry etc etc

Now, maybe the secret police didn't want people to panic and they pressurised the publishers or maybe the maths in the book is bullshit and the publishers only found out too late lol.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Or maybe the publishers thought "This absurd hodge-podge of 31,680 feet, 31,680 inches, 31,680 miles, 31.680 inches, 316.8 feet- this total disregard for orders of magnitude or units of measurement in search of 'So What?' correlations of zero intelligibility towards any human act could never fool even the idiots who buy books like this!" and just plain gave up?

Who knows?


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David Dom Lemieux
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The author worked out that if those three pyramids represent Orion's Belt then there is an equivalent to Sirius not far from those sites. Using the Fibonnacci Sequence he worked out the position and was convinced that the fabled "Hall of records" (re Edgar Cayce) is buried underneath. Apparently he was being accused of plagiarism which is why the publishers retracted. Last anyone ever heard of him he had a website asking for money to fund the dig and then the Egyptian authorities stopped the dig.

Hahaha

Hey don't be so hard on millionaire (?) Hancock, here he is talking about angels and the limitations of science to the latest New Age teacher-queen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YeDTqv6O4M&t=656s

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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belmurru
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Appleby's book The Hall of the Gods was withdrawn after more than 12 authors accused him of plagiarism.

www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg03919.html

"An Official Statement Regarding Operation Hermes By Graham Hancock,
Robert Bauval, Colin Wilson, Andrew Collins, Christopher Knight, Robert
Lomas, Simon Cox And Alan Alford.
Updated : 4th August 1998

Dear readers, friends and colleagues around the world,

As many of you may be aware, there has been a great deal of controversy
and confusion surrounding the publication of the book 'Hall Of The Gods'
(the "Book") by William Heinemann of Random House, UK (the
"Publishers").

The Book, written by Mr. Nigel Appleby, was published on the 2nd June
1998 and withdrawn for sales as from the 5th June 1998 by the
Publishers. This was on account of complaints from several published
authors (12 to this date). See articles in The Observer of 14 June 1998,
the Daily Mail 15 June 1998 and the Daily Telegraph 20 June 1998."

Perhaps someone can find us the relevant newspaper articles to see what and from whom he plagiarized.

Here is Nigel Appleby's "Atlantipedia" entry -
atlantipedia.ie/samples/appleby-nigel/

One book that Appleby apparently plagiarized is Ralph Ellis' Thoth: Architect of the Universe (1998). E.g. www.goodreads.com/book/show/2615254-hall-of-the-gods-the-quest-to-discover-the-knowledge-of-the-ancients
I have neither book, so I can't compare.

It seems the 2012 end of the world hype had a lot to do with these guys. We went out with tinfoil hats that night, on a pub crawl. Our costumes got us a lot of free drinks.


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belmurru
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Appleby's book The Hall of the Gods was withdrawn after at least 12 authors accused him of plagiarism.

www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg03919.html

"An Official Statement Regarding Operation Hermes By Graham Hancock,
Robert Bauval, Colin Wilson, Andrew Collins, Christopher Knight, Robert
Lomas, Simon Cox And Alan Alford.
Updated : 4th August 1998

Dear readers, friends and colleagues around the world,

As many of you may be aware, there has been a great deal of controversy
and confusion surrounding the publication of the book 'Hall Of The Gods'
(the "Book") by William Heinemann of Random House, UK (the
"Publishers").

The Book, written by Mr. Nigel Appleby, was published on the 2nd June
1998 and withdrawn for sales as from the 5th June 1998 by the
Publishers. This was on account of complaints from several published
authors (12 to this date). See articles in The Observer of 14 June 1998,
the Daily Mail 15 June 1998 and the Daily Telegraph 20 June 1998."

Perhaps someone can find us the relevant newspaper articles to see what and from whom he plagiarized.

Here is Nigel Appleby's "Atlantipedia" entry -
atlantipedia.ie/samples/appleby-nigel/

One book that Appleby apparently plagiarized is Ralph Ellis' Thoth: Architect of the Universe (1998). E.g. www.goodreads.com/book/show/2615254-hall-of-the-gods-the-quest-to-discover-the-knowledge-of-the-ancients
I have neither book, so I can't compare.

It seems the 2012 end of the world hype had a lot to do with these guys. We went out with tinfoil hats that night, on a pub crawl. Our costumes got us a lot of free drinks.


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Shiva
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D: ... the rabbi cabalists who wrote the Bible took their cue from Egyptian initiates and scholars from Egypt’s ancient past.

And keep in mind that Moses (the guy who took all the Hebrew slaves OUT OF EGYPT into (the edge of) the "Holy Land." He was a very high-ranking Egyptian dude ('til he became recalcitrant). Then he had 40 years (wandering in the wasteland) to pass on his Egyptian knowledge and understanding.

Sure, he over-rode that knowledge when "I Am" gave hime the ten "rules of conduct," but the resulting culture still had a ton and a half of Egyptian foundation under it.

As to the cubit/feet deal: It would be interesting to know from where the term and measurement "foot" derives, and how "ancient" it is..

Let it be known that my feet (at the end of my legs) are exactly 12 inches long. Also(I wear a size 12 shoe), and the span of my fingers (closed & etended) is exactly 3 inches at the 2nd metacarpal joint - the Chinese "osteo-inch" (a means of measuring the location of acupuncture points, which is less/shorter in a short person and more/wider in a giant). So my cun also t'sun (osteo-inch) is perfectly equivalent to the Chinese system and the U.S. measurement system. These measurements were determined when I was 6'3" (I have now shrunk to 6'2", which is common in old age, but my cun/inch measurement remains the same. I believe these facts qualify me to contact Mr Hancock for inclusion in his next book.

Further Qabalistic Notes:

I just hit "SUBMIT" for the above post and received the following response:

403 Forbidden

A potentially unsafe operation has been detected in your request to this site.

Generated by Wordfence at Sat, 30 Dec 2017 15:51:21 GMT.
Your computer's time: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 15:50:50 GMT.

Wordfense seems to be insane. Why is the Black Lodge interfering with my post?

I shall copy this message and try again at a more convenient time.

It is now a few days "later."


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