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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
20/11/2005 11:48 am  

I was just wondering.....has anyone been attacked by Christians, Muslims, etc for being involved/showing interest in Thelema?

My parents are Christians and found out I read and have an interest in Aleister Crowley; but they always keep reminding me that i'm 'walking down a dangerous path to hell', 'getting involved in the occult leads to demonic possession', 'you are blind and need to find jesus' and such.

Of course, I pay little attention to their stupid comments, but I was wondering if anyone else has experienced something similar?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
20/11/2005 12:15 pm  

Just after I published my first book, my girlfriend's mother took me to one side and informed me, with all the solemnity she could muster from her whispered tones that she was "praying for me." They were regular Church folk. At the time I was deeply offended, but in retrospect I think she truly believed that she was doing the right thing and I respect that.

I've always found it best to try and embrace whatever is being thrown at you... it makes for an interesting life. Whatever is said, simply ask "Why?" and be genuinely interested. It is a much more sophisticated response than trying to convince someone of the values of your own interests, because in time the critic will see in your reactions the limitations of their own...

bazelek


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
28/11/2005 12:45 am  

one of the amusing angles is that a fair bit of Liber Al can be read by xians without them having too much trouble with the sentiment, until they hit certain paragraphs....


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
30/11/2005 5:53 am  
"bazelek" wrote:
I've always found it best to try and embrace whatever is being thrown at you... it makes for an interesting life. Whatever is said, simply ask "Why?" and be genuinely interested. It is a much more sophisticated response than trying to convince someone of the values of your own interests, because in time the critic will see in your reactions the limitations of their own...

bazelek

*Agreed*

but as to the question, yes I have been told many times how I'm headed straight to hell.


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alysa
(@alysa)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 655
09/03/2010 9:43 pm  

Just was able to watch a show on TV about demonic possession and think it's true what another person here on Lashtal last said with relation to the subject, that it's unbalanced persons who get involved, mostly what me at times irritate is that if some persons know about your interest in the occult they think you could be the next victim, I get bored from such ways of thinking, I'm sorry to take this thread, but I could not find another thread to take to express my view upon this subject!


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alysa
(@alysa)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 655
09/03/2010 9:50 pm  

Name of one of these Roman Catholic excorcists is Bishop Amorth, remove the letter t in this name and his name looks also like a possible name of a demon!


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alysa
(@alysa)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 655
09/03/2010 9:59 pm  

Meant ofcourse the letter r, sorry for triple post here Paul, correct me if it's your will


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spike418
(@spike418)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 213
10/03/2010 7:19 am  
"bazelek" wrote:
I've always found it best to try and embrace whatever is being thrown at you... it makes for an interesting life. Whatever is said, simply ask "Why?" and be genuinely interested. It is a much more sophisticated response than trying to convince someone of the values of your own interests, because in time the critic will see in your reactions the limitations of their own...

bazelek

Perhaps others here in other threads could also adopt this ............. 😉


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Horemakhet
(@horemakhet)
Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 525
10/03/2010 7:56 am  

Oh yeah. I got the whole "Your boyfriend is possessed by Satan!" thing from an ex girls 'born again' parents, who claimed that they have seen my eyes rolling back like pinballs in my head. Curiously, my own parents who are devout JW's & I have never had such silliness.

Outside of Christianity, most of my friends do not read or practise the things I have. It is always "That is Horemakhet's thing". That is what I want, because after living amongst those who pressure their ideas on you: be it in a school, in church, on a street, or at home,- what gave me a sense of freedom & empowerment was not having to do that.


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antares93
(@antares93)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 18
10/03/2010 3:11 pm  

A neighbor tried to exorcise me, she laid hands on me to "get the evil" out. I was friends with her children and happened to know that her alcoholic husband beat her and their children routinely and savagely. She became born again which drove her husband crazy. Good times...


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
10/03/2010 3:19 pm  
"bazelek" wrote:
Just after I published my first book
Hi bazelek, just wondering -- what was your book, and when did it come out?

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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
10/03/2010 3:20 pm  

AHA!


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Ariock
(@ariock)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 108
24/03/2010 11:34 pm  

I owned a couple businesses in the middle of Ohio for many years, and had some run–ins with the religious establishment of that area. One of my businesses was an occult book shop that clearly had LHP leanings. The religious protests manifested in many ways; picketing and “prayer circles” outside the shop and phone calls to the shop line were the most common. I would encourage the picketing and would actually call the newspaper when they had a big group going to try to get some free publicity. There was a couple times where my customers yelled at the prayer circles to “stop casting spells”, which gave me a chuckle. Other than this, I was respectful of their rights to be upset with me as long as they didn’t bother my customers and were respectful to my rights to conduct business. The only time this was broken on my end was when some Mennonites where aggressively (for Mennonites) handing out pamphlets. We changed the front window display to read “Mennonites Suck”. Some beer may have inspired this. The phone calls were a little more annoying as they interfered with business to a greater degree. *69 and reporting the numbers helped with some. I was able to track down a pastor who had been instructing his congregation to make the calls. This stopped after a discussion with him and the calls slowed down. Occasionally some folks would actually have the courage to come in the store and confront “the devil”. Some were very respectful, said their peace, gave me a bible and their contact info and left. Other were not so respectful and had to be taken away by the police (I told one to take cake to notice how the symbol on the cops badge match the ones in the store - cruel). One made the mistake of laying his hands on one of my customers and was taken away in an ambulance. We were also located between two bars, a waitress informed me that some the patrons had taken to urinating on the “witch shop” when passing from one bar to the next. I caught a couple in the act on two occasions and delivered a kick to the back of the knee while pulling the top back of their jackets, thus causing them to fall backwards while urinating on themselves. As satisfying as that was, I figured that would likely get me in trouble, so I simply installed a camera and posted pictures of the gents “in the act” that were quite embarrassing.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
24/03/2010 11:54 pm  

I don't so much worry about attacks from Christians and the like.
But it seems to me that the last kind of person I want knowing I'm a Thelemite is another Thelemite.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
26/03/2010 4:54 am  
"AEternitas" wrote:
I don't so much worry about attacks from Christians and the like.
But it seems to me that the last kind of person I want knowing I'm a Thelemite is another Thelemite.

Amen!

"achad" wrote:
one of the amusing angles is that a fair bit of Liber Al can be read by xians without them having too much trouble with the sentiment, until they hit certain paragraphs....

True, though those certain paragraphs nearly everyone has some trouble with. Even Crowley had trouble with some of the content of of it. It seems to me the more literal-minded occultists who read Liber Al eventually move on to the Church of Satan. There they can meet more "might is right" types. LaVey was an interesting guy and some of his writings are interesting and actually pretty funny. However, a lot of the members of his church tend to be humorless and self-involved. That's a real shame because I think a sense of humor can be a real asset. If I were a member of the Church of Satan, I don't think I'd want to meet many other members (though I do know a few who are very nice, well adjusted adults).


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
26/03/2010 4:46 pm  
"AEternitas" wrote:
I don't so much worry about attacks from Christians and the like.
But it seems to me that the last kind of person I want knowing I'm a Thelemite is another Thelemite.

Do I detect a touch of irony in that statement, AEternitas? 😉


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
26/03/2010 4:56 pm  

Only if there was something "irony" to hand 😉


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
26/03/2010 5:21 pm  
"RemeaviThantos" wrote:
Only if there was something "irony" to hand 😉

😆


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
26/03/2010 6:50 pm  

It is true that some of the most famous people that have decided to live outside the moral rules of stablished religions have led quite outrageous lives, and Crowley himself was a good exemple of that. But the reality is sometimes exactly the opposite: it is said that a young LaVey, after getting in touch with some Californian thelemites, rejected them on the basis that they were not as evil as they were supposed to be. On the other hand, nowadays there are published almost daily new informations about cases of child abuse by supposedly well-behaved Catholic priests. In my opinion is much easier to be a bad person when you believe that after all you can get forgiveness in confession, than when you think this is quite a stupidity and it is your own conscience what you have to comfort, to be true to yourself while respecting the other people. It is just about your Will and the realisation that every man and woman, is a Star. That is the greatness of Crowley's message that brought me here in the first place.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
26/03/2010 7:06 pm  
"SerApis" wrote:
It is just about your Will and the realisation that every man and woman, is a Star. That is the greatness of Crowley's message that brought me here in the first place.

Yes, the boundaries of behavior are best self-determined naturally in the individual by automatic reference to true Will. Both adherence to standardized boundaries and arbitrary rebellion from them (as with LaVey) are artificial and unhealthy.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
26/03/2010 11:05 pm  

Irony? I wouldn't know the meaning of the word. I'm afraid irony is lost on me.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
27/03/2010 9:05 am  
"fugazi32" wrote:
I was just wondering.....has anyone been attacked by Christians, Muslims, etc for being involved/showing interest in Thelema?

My parents are Christians and found out I read and have an interest in Aleister Crowley; but they always keep reminding me that i'm 'walking down a dangerous path to hell', 'getting involved in the occult leads to demonic possession', 'you are blind and need to find jesus' and such.

Of course, I pay little attention to their stupid comments, but I was wondering if anyone else has experienced something similar?

93, yes I do have experience of this. My friend and thelemic brother past away 3 weeks ago, for a 2 months before his untimely passing he was constantly harassed in his home and town by the local church minister and congregation. It got so bad, myself and others had to go stay at his farm at weekends to let the guy get some peace. There again I live in Nortern Ireland which in known for its lovely tolerance towards each other. An article was written in the local paper about his death and it was disgustingly horible and evil. Our lodge are still deciding on what actions to take against this paper and its lies against the order.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
27/03/2010 9:26 am  

It is indeed a rocky path we travel however as a brother once said, an eye for and eye makes the whole world blind.
With sympathies for your loss.
Regards,


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
27/03/2010 10:13 am  

Greetings

"kunagnos93" wrote:
93, yes I do have experience of this. My friend and thelemic brother past away 3 weeks ago, for a 2 months before his untimely passing he was constantly harassed in his home and town by the local church minister and congregation. It got so bad, myself and others had to go stay at his farm at weekends to let the guy get some peace. There again I live in Nortern Ireland which in known for its lovely tolerance towards each other. An article was written in the local paper about his death and it was disgustingly horible and evil. Our lodge are still deciding on what actions to take against this paper and its lies against the order.

Please accept my sympathies too for the loss of your friend kunagnos93.

Regards
Hecate


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
27/03/2010 10:31 am  
"RemeaviThantos" wrote:
It is indeed a rocky path we travel however as a brother once said, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
With sympathies for your loss.
Regards,

One quite obviously already blind! 😥


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
13/04/2010 9:14 pm  

Personally I keep my spiritual leanings mostly private. If one of my family (and they probably have) wanted to google around they'd find out about my interest in Thelema and the occult. But none have approached me, my father being a retired Christian minister. I was more persecuted (even by Thelemites) for being a Scientologist (when I was one.)

I've been a Christian, Mahayana Buddhist, Scientologist and currently consider myself a Thelemite and mystic. Out of everything I've been, my mother cried when she found out I studied Buddhism... but almost all the persecution I ever got for everything I've been (including an occultist/Thelemite) was for being a Scientologist. It's such a hot button with people.

From my past, I try to be very understanding of other's beliefs. I've suffered in my past for my own personal choices... so I try to let people have the freedom to be anything they want (Christian, Thelemite, Scientologist, Mormon, Satanist, Religion XYZ.)

People who try to win someone from being "lost" are fighting a loosing battle. I like Liber LXV Chapter II that speaks of the dolphin not being charmed by silence... but the dolphin was first charmed by the harp... and it transformed... then the bird it became was charmed by the panpipe... and so forth. People are more easily reached when others come to them in understand and in ways that are easily digested.

But back to your question - if my parents (who are in their 80's) knew I have been a student of the occult.. they'd have a hard time of it. probably pray a lot, bring up the issue a lot... and cry terribly. I decided to keep it from them. They're far too old to bother with such things.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
13/04/2010 9:18 pm  
"kunagnos93" wrote:
"fugazi32" wrote:
I was just wondering.....has anyone been attacked by Christians, Muslims, etc for being involved/showing interest in Thelema?

My parents are Christians and found out I read and have an interest in Aleister Crowley; but they always keep reminding me that i'm 'walking down a dangerous path to hell', 'getting involved in the occult leads to demonic possession', 'you are blind and need to find jesus' and such.

Of course, I pay little attention to their stupid comments, but I was wondering if anyone else has experienced something similar?

93, yes I do have experience of this. My friend and thelemic brother past away 3 weeks ago, for a 2 months before his untimely passing he was constantly harassed in his home and town by the local church minister and congregation. It got so bad, myself and others had to go stay at his farm at weekends to let the guy get some peace. There again I live in Nortern Ireland which in known for its lovely tolerance towards each other. An article was written in the local paper about his death and it was disgustingly horible and evil. Our lodge are still deciding on what actions to take against this paper and its lies against the order.

Yeah that's terrible.

Very sad. It's tough to hear about things like that. Living in the states, I often forget what it's like elsewhere.


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
13/04/2010 10:10 pm  

93,

In order to manage conversations about religion, my first method was to learn as much as I could about the history of mankind's religions.

When asked about my personal beliefs, I generally expound my beliefs in a manner which is comfortable to the religion of the person making the inquiry. It's very interesting, to say the least, holding a conversation with a "Christian" about the nature, purpose, and identity of Jesus Christ in a clearly informative manner and then, once they realize I am telling them very many new and wonderful things they had never before thought about, let them know I am by no means a Christian.

The inevitable question always follows, "Do you believe in God?" The reply is always the same, "Of course."

Its just a part of my personal system, I imagine, although the method is by no means unique. One could sit and try to explain the concepts of Thelema to a non-Thelemite all day long, but the fact of the matter is that human minds tune in and out to specific key words and each individual is different. Therefore, when I say "Thelemite" to another Thelemite, I assume they will have a certain type of reaction or interest. If I say "Thelemite" to a fundamentalist Christian, they may automatically assume it is some form of "Devil worship" since it is not Christianity. The bottom line is that the Light is the same; people just approach it in their own unique ways, and with their own unique lenses.

Then there are those people who refuse to put their hermeneutic glasses down try to view the Light without them. For those people, "be ready to fly or to smite".

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
14/04/2010 6:08 am  

Most of the members of my family think I am into "devil worship" as soon as they take one look at my bookshelves. I just reply with "I can't worship the devil if I don't believe there is a devil, now can I?" Then I walk away with a smile on my face.

I once sat down with my mother and read her some chapters out of Liber Aleph that I selected, and she (who is a Baptist) agreed with most of what I read to her. I was laughing on the inside the entire time....A Baptist agreeing with The Beast!! 😈


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
14/04/2010 2:59 pm  

The only issues I've run into with my studies of magick is that I started out with Wicca which I studied for about 2 years. I was a teenager in the bible belt and while not viciously attacks, had some pretty stupid things said to me. I dated a girl briefly too who was Christian and her parents took me to a church thinking I'd be saved or something. Found Thelema at 17 and have been with it since and honestly, whenever someone hears what my religion is, the question is just "What is that?" I have to wonder what my movers have thought about my shelves of books whenever I move though.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
14/04/2010 5:58 pm  
"kuniggety" wrote:
Found Thelema at 17 and have been with it since and honestly, whenever someone hears what my religion is, the question is just "What is that?"

93 kuniggety. I must say that is very refreshing to see a Thelemite acknowledge openly in these forums that Thelema is their religion. It seems that for most posters here it is something else, either 'occult' or philosophical or something else. In fact, not too long ago, there was a sort of debate about Thelema as a religion, without the participation of any Thelemites who embraced Thelema as a religion themselves. I found this odd at the time, because I know so many, many people in 'real life' for whom Thelema is their religion. Perhaps these folks are just very shy when it comes to discussions on the Internet, or is it this website?


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
14/04/2010 7:25 pm  
"Camlion" wrote:
93 kuniggety. I must say that is very refreshing to see a Thelemite acknowledge openly in these forums that Thelema is their religion. It seems that for most posters here it is something else, either 'occult' or philosophical or something else. In fact, not too long ago, there was a sort of debate about Thelema as a religion, without the participation of any Thelemites who embraced Thelema as a religion themselves. I found this odd at the time, because I know so many, many people in 'real life' for whom Thelema is their religion. Perhaps these folks are just very shy when it comes to discussions on the Internet, or is it this website?

93,

Cam, I think it might have to do with the amount of people who choose Thelema because they don't want to feel "tied down" to any one particular set of practices or another. Eh, who knows...

Personally, I tend more towards the Hindu deities than the Egyptian ones, but I tie them into Thelemic principles. I do the same with all forms of religion though, so I don't know. I suppose Thelema is more for me a mindset, but when I call myself a Thelemite, I am indeed calling myself "one who practices the principles of Thelema", which is a common description of religious practitioners, I guess. At any rate, I'm definitely not a part of any other religion, so why not? 🙂

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
14/04/2010 10:04 pm  

The only ppl I've experienced serious malice and slander from are Roman Catholics. I believe there is something very heavy, conservative and controlling in the Catholic egregore - completely unrelated to Christian values - that instinctively opposes the freedom of Thelema.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
14/04/2010 10:47 pm  
"tai" wrote:
The only ppl I've experienced serious malice and slander from are Roman Catholics. I believe there is something very heavy, conservative and controlling in the Catholic egregore - completely unrelated to Christian values - that instinctively opposes the freedom of Thelema.

I think that you would have to expand that at least to the Judea-Christian-Islamic (i.e., Abrahamic) "egregore," tai, that instinctively opposes the freedom of Thelema, in the religious sense.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
15/04/2010 12:54 am  

@Camlion:

I think Azidonis hit the nail on the head. Thelema seems to attract wanderers of beliefs/religions and most of the time it is just added on top of whatever other beliefs they may have. Not that this is bad, I think, as I just think the more people who adopt it the merrier.

Honestly, no, Thelema doesn't quite fit the bill of what some may call a religion, but it's served just fine as my religion for over a decade now. So, I'm quite content in calling it my religion.

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
15/04/2010 1:32 am  
"kuniggety" wrote:
Honestly, no, Thelema doesn't quite fit the bill of what some may call a religion, but it's served just fine as my religion for over a decade now. So, I'm quite content in calling it my religion.

Agreed, kuniggety, it would not fit the bill of what most people call a religion, thankfully. 🙂


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
20/04/2010 5:40 am  

Yes, i remember those times, Ariock!
Sometimes the alienation from one's own community/family can be painful until one realizes
that "belonging" is often against The Way.


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