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hermitas
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

It's my thought that the Aeon of Ma'at witnesses the restoration of Christianity.

Scandalous. Because you take John's Revelation prophetically? Or? I'd hear more of this. 

Posted by: @dom

Nema's 1974 channelling as the Word of Maat?

Also scandalous. Haven't had a chance to read it yet. Is that Liber Pennae Praenumbra?


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Shiva
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Posted by: @dom

Maybe reread what I wrote.

Well, I did (re-read). And to think I purposely read it twice before posting ... because I couldn't believe what you wrote. Perhaps the word not was invisible to my failing vision. In any case, you summed it up in half a sentence, whereas I ran on for four lines, and I withdraw my enquiry in spirit, but not in print, because it's engraved in stone ... forever.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @hermitas

Also scandalous. Haven't had a chance to read it yet. Is that Liber Pennae Praenumbra?

Yeah check it out anyone who says this is not a beautiful poem is liar imo.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva

 

Well, I did (re-read). And to think I purposely read it twice before posting ... because I couldn't believe what you wrote. Perhaps the word not was invisible to my failing vision. In any case, you summed it up in half a sentence, whereas I ran on for four lines, and I withdraw my enquiry in spirit, but not in print, because it's engraved in stone ... forever.

I'll clarify, Barter compared the "us" in AL to the "us" in The Lord's Prayer but the "us" in the former appears to be for Thelemites only whereas in the latter the "us" appears to be for all.   

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter
Posted by: @dom

Notice the appeal to community-spirit in Christ's prayer as oppose to I , me and my;

Our ...Give us  ... forgive us ... we ... us ...us 

Cf. with "My number is 11, as all their numbers who are of us" - (AL I:60), "... the highest are of us... who sorroweth is not of us" (AL II:19), (Etc...).

Posted by: @dom

Yes 'us' as in not humanity at large. ...  in the latter [Prayer] the "us" appears to be for all.

You didn't say anything about "us" being "for all" or "humanity at large" - you're adding that afterwards - but what, are these words from "Christ's/the Lord's" Prayer now intended to include all heathens non-Christians as well as believers? 

You pointed out an appeal to "community spirit", but the extracts from AL I quoted (and those from other passages there too) themselves constitute the same "community spirit" which you were getting at - in the sense of those "servants who are few and secret", as Shiva in fact correctly indicated.  (At the same time this would also be opposed to, and distinct from, your purely subjective one person of "I, me, mine my".)  "Few" is still more than just the one person, and a "community (spirit)" could easily be described as consisting of a "few" (not including all or everybody).

Posted by: @dom

Do you view Nema's 1974 channelling as the Word of Maat?

Yes, the Word of Maat is given there (in Liber Pennae Praenumbra, whether you chose to view it that way or not) as 'IPSOS' ("By the same mouth").

N Joy


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Posted by:

 

It's my thought that the Aeon of Ma'at witnesses the restoration of Christianity.

Scandalous. Because you take John's Revelation prophetically? Or? I'd hear more of this. 

Posted by:
 

Nema's 1974 channelling as the Word of Maat?

Also scandalous. Haven't had a chance to read it yet. Is that Liber Pennae Praenumbra

I have no firm opinion on Nema's work or her PP channeling. As I am led to understand, Grant was not immediately taken with it but would later come back to re-examine and regard it highly. I may follow suit but it has not been of any significant influence on my thinking or practice. I have had minimal contact with Nema. When I did, she was very gracious and kind. I may come around to study this work more closely. Who knows?

 

I have always been more intrigued by Achad and his Ma'atian revelations. Perhaps this was because of his proximity to Crowley. After all, were it not for my fascination with Crowley himself, I'd have no idea who all these other players were! I met Achad early on in Bill Breeze's intro to Liber Aleph (which I acquired before I even had a copy or knew what the Book of the Law WAS!).

 

My words re: Christianity and its “Restoration” are in context of both Achad and William Blake. I don't see “Christianity” as anything resembling the Evangelical/Fundamentalist view of things. I also see it as a “Religion of the Future.”

 

Crowley's Thelema presents us with an immediate scenario of Three Aeons. Horus seems hell-bent on fighting against the former but Isis is generally untouched. Funny as his Isis Aeon not only gave us Taoism, it gave us the Moasaic Law, old “Nobodaddy” thundering from the sky.

 

Wait. It also gave us all the Egypto stuff Crowley wove into his “New Religion.”

 

What a mixed bag!

 

Likewise, wasn't it that despicable “Aeon of Osiris” which gave us the Gnostic Cults which would resurge with Nag Hammadi, Phillip Dick, The Matrix, Quantum Physics? 2000 years of growth into knowledge, freedom from religious tyranny....

 

...oh wait (again). We STILL have that going on. In fact, in our brave new Horusian world, we've got women getting stoned and men getting crucified. And I THINK those might be our ALLIES!

 

Quantum Physics (!!!) and humans are STILL nailing each other to crosses!

 

There is a machine which will co-opt ANYTHING. We have all seen it in our own lifetimes. It absorbs everything from Buddhism to Punk Rock. It will eat the latter and give you Deepak Chopra and Green Day. It gobbled up the religion of the Nazarene a long time ago. Really, it made short work of the Hawk-Headed one. How long did it take to turn DWTW as the WHOLE of the “Law” into a MUCH larger Law with its own set of THOU SHALT NOTs?

 

“MAGICK IS FOR ALL” proclaimed my first copy of Magick in Theory and Practice.

 

Then Duplexity, Inc said “Pretenders need not apply.”

 

The same bloated Moloch sits atop the heap of bodies. New masks for the naked emperor.

 

So what was I talking about....?

 

Oh, the AEONS!

 

There is a wonderful company of Gods, Avatars, Adepts. They are the counter-balance to the Elohim who sought to restrain the fallen fire in a 3-D pen. And THEY do not work within “expiration dates.”

 

An AEON is an AION, not a carton of milk.

 

I don't really care how much a bunch of dues paying juvenile Thelemite wanna-be's think it's squee-ville to spit on someone named Jesus. Not anymore than how much a bunch of Evangelical morons want to think that God is all into their bullshit coin-collecting ministries and dogmatic exclusivities.

 

There is a reason AL refers to the FEW and SECRET.

 

So to conclude:

 

Nema was very nice to me and (I gather) nice to pretty much everyone who got in touch with her. She's clearly an unusual and amazing powerhouse of a person. I just have not gone deeply into her PP channeling and so I can't say much about it. I am much more interested in Jones and his angle. But I do think Nema is very respect-worthy.

 

The Aeon of Maat will see the resurgence of Christianity as a deep and profound path within the Anatomy of the Body of God. But this Maatian Christianity is not an exclusive dogma. The Initiatory Impulse and Path is a matter of Existential Ontology.

 

An aspect of what we might call the Higher Consciousness is an ability to interpret symbols. When new symbols arise, these may be understood from the Interior Spaces. This is both Psychic and Intellectual.

 

Ergo, the Buddha Nature recognizes the Buddha Nature and the Wisdom of the Buddhas is communicated between Buddhas.

 

Or Christs.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

 

...oh wait (again). We STILL have that going on. In fact, in our brave new Horusian world, we've got women getting stoned and men getting crucified. And I THINK those might be our ALLIES!

Yeah, Life in the Fast Lane can be interesting when we can see Life in the Slow Lane still going on. Obviously, like the yugas, the aeons also roll out on a different timetable for different nations and cultures.

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

Obviously, like the yugas, the aeons also roll out on a different timetable for different nations and cultures.

And INDIVIDUALS.

THIS is the Path of MAGICK.

Above, Beyond and yet Within.

"In the World but not OF it."

Nothing that WAS is NOT. But what may BE is bristling about our Brains and within our grasp.

That's the Gospel (AL-ian "Glad Word"). It's also the big taboo.

Cults don't do so well when the members wake up and become the Stars they ARE.

I recently learned that Scientology has numerous Operating Thetan Levels.

Clear is Clear.

If a Guru isn't ready to "kiss the Joy as it flies" (i.e. watch you LEAVE), they have no Liberating Teaching.

True Gurus make no money. They are typically ignored, overlooked and passed by.

Oprah wouldn't know one if it bit her in the ass.  

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

And INDIVIDUALS.

I guess you didn't get around to reading Appendix IV in Hot Zones yet. Or maybe you did. It exposes the inaccuracy of the external Theory of the Aeons, but admits our planet is now in Horusland. But the main theme is that the Aeon structure fits perfectly into each individual's life. We only get one of these, so it behoves anyone to try and reach the 4th Maat Aeon before expiring on the Horus battlefield.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

recently learned that Scientology has numerous Operating Thetan Levels.

Clear is Clear.

Don't try to confuse me when I'm already confused.

According to my QBL roster, there are 7 levels of preliminary training. I don't know how it works now, but at level 4, one used to be required to work for a higher grade scientologist, and rent a room from the same upper rank. That way, if you became difficult, your pad and your job could be made uncomfortable or withdrawn.

Level 8 is "Clear." In this case, Clear in not Clear. It contains all kinds of repressed insanity that 8 levels of "clearing" failed to completely clear. Bad banishing. Clears have been known to come unglued in public.

Now those Operative Thetans (OT) have at least 7 grades going up. OT1, OT2, etc. These are the dangerous dudes. The higher their number, the more dangerous they are. I ended up matching energies with an OT in the vast and well-appointed reception area and waiting room of their HQ ... while I, and my cohorts, were operating under a full dose of legal Sandoz LSD-25.

I would not want to do that again, now, so I suggest we send Ignant in. He thrives on danger. Maybe Chris can accompany him. I will provide the talismans for protection and Tiger will write it up in a new thread he opens.

 


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christibrany
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I always hoped one of those proselytizing Scientology dudes would approach me on the street for a 'free personality test' but I never had the pleasure.  They seem to be an endangered species. 

Peace be with you. 


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hermitas
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Posted by: @dom
Posted by: @hermitas

Also scandalous. Haven't had a chance to read it yet. Is that Liber Pennae Praenumbra?

Yeah check it out anyone who says this is not a beautiful poem is liar imo.

It was interesting. If I take it seriously, then it diverges a little from what I expected from Maat. I was expecting more of a harsher Libra vibe - Venus and Saturn - Justice/Adjustment. Instead, it seemed mostly Venusian and focused more on Maat as the weigher of the heart. 

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

I have always been more intrigued by Achad and his Ma'atian revelations.

I've read Anatomy of the Body of God, but it was really so long ago that I need to see it with fresh eyes. The illustrations in it really opened some concepts up to me. I don't remember any Maatian revelations in it, but it has been a long time. Could you point me to something of that which you find interesting, please? 

--

To both of you whom I quoted:  I have always imagined the Aeon of Maat as balancing between the spiritual paths of Osiris and Horus, both cults existing, but that could be because I myself felt hung between the two for so long. I don't base this on anything that I've read - just my own Libran "Let's all get along - or else!"


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ignant666
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Posted by: @shiva

I suggest we send Ignant in. He thrives on danger.

Posted by: @christibrany

I always hoped one of those proselytizing Scientology dudes would approach me on the street for a 'free personality test' but I never had the pleasure. 

I used to see them a lot at the 125th St and Lex Ave subway station when i worked up in Harlem in the early 2000s; trying to get a few non-white members i suppose.

I took great pleasure in shouting "Xenu! Xenu!" at them. I believe that merely hearing that dread name leads to certain insanity within 6 months if one is not an Operating Thetan. Pretty sure the ones out hustling with clipboards are not often OTs.


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christibrany
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Posted by: @ignant666

Pretty sure the ones out hustling with clipboards are not often OTs.

Course not 🙂  I wonder how 'high' Tom Cruise is...

A guy whose experiences in Scientology were largely positive, who always stayed 'independent' and was L R Hubbard's personal secretary for a time is Peter Moon.  His books Montauk Book of the Dead, and Montauk Book the Living and LR Hubbard and the Tao of Insanity are very interesting.  He left the movement in the 80s when it started to go even more money oriented and less about teaching.

 

Christianity. 


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ignant666
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The drones with clipboards will sometimes give you a free copy of Dianetics if you do not shout "Xenu!" at them. Or just wait til you get the book to do so. There are a few bits of original insight by Hubbard, and a lot stolen from AC and Theosophy, underneath all the sci-fi bullshit; it is worth reading, 

And of course the Process Church of the Final Judgement were early Scientology "squirrels" who used e-meters, at least early on, though my impression is that faded out after a while.

 


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christibrany
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Posted by: @ignant666

There are a few bits of original insight by Hubbard, and a lot stolen from AC and Theosophy, underneath all the sci-fi bullshit; it is worth reading, 

I actually somewhat enjoyed reading Dianetics a few years ago.  But yes as you mentioned there was sooooooooo much stolen from AC, and also Taoism and basic energy clearing techniques common to all 'true' practises. 

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @christibrany

I always hoped one of those proselytizing Scientology dudes would approach me on the street

You need to hang out in a zone where they are prevalent, like in an area near a building where they live or congregate. Your chances would increase greatly if you hung a sign around your neck saying, "I am stupid."

Posted by: @hermitas

I don't remember any Maatian revelations in it

I don't remember Achad being into Maat during his book publishing days. The Maat stuff came later ... after he expressed his Horus stuff in those books.

Posted by: @hermitas

I have always imagined the Aeon of Maat as balancing between the spiritual paths of Osiris and Horus

That's a good start. But there's no need to be specific. All opposites need equilibrating. This Maat stuff is attributed to Binah. The "Aeon of Maat" won't be available to large chunks of humanity 'til there a bunch of Magisters walking (or sitting) around.  AC even defined it for us: MAAT = "Magister Templi A.'.A.'.."

I see a lot of folks trying to define Maat in other (past) terms. When the terms and the concepts give way to direct perception (i.e., "intuition" or "understanding"), then we'll have moved into the parking lot of the ballpark.

Posted by: @ignant666

it is worth reading, 

I will take your word on that. I couldn't get through it all. I believe there was some Magick done that involved a trash can.

 


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @shiva

Now those Operative Thetans (OT) have at least 7 grades going up. OT1, OT2, etc.

Posted by: @christibrany

I wonder how 'high' Tom Cruise is...

I seem to remember reading he was an OT7, and that only Miscavige was publically known to be above him on OT8.  Although there are apparently 15 of them (likewise with "Clear" - which is not just "Clear" - there are meant to be at least 6 Grades of.)  Oh, what will they all do when the high ones have all gone and with no Elron around to make up more??

Posted by: @christibrany

I always hoped one of those proselytizing Scientology dudes would approach me on the street for a 'free personality test' but I never had the pleasure.  They seem to be an endangered species.

It didn't used to be difficult (pre-Covid): you only needed to wander past one of their offices and they would come up to you to make you an offer (which you could refuse) and then try to sign you up on one of their mailing lists (which would quite likely be for the next billion years life).

Posted by: @ignant666

I believe that merely hearing that dread name leads to certain insanity within 6 months if one is not an Operating Thetan.

This used to be said would happen instantaneously after reading Elron's withdrawn magnum-opus "Excalibur" as well (which was available on the web at one time, I don't know if it still is.  I read some of it once and am still here & of sound mind, if I say so myself... Maybe I just didn't read (far) enough?!)

N Joy


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

 

I don't really care how much a bunch of dues paying juvenile Thelemite wanna-be's think it's squee-ville to spit on someone named Jesus. Not anymore than how much a bunch of Evangelical morons want to think that God is all into their bullshit coin-collecting ministries and dogmatic exclusivities.

 

There is a reason AL refers to the FEW and SECRET.

 

 

Yeah Christianity is  actually literally promoted as being exclusive in that Christ said (directly or indirectly) the same in the following parables “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”;

The Net - Matthew 13:47-50

Marriage Feast or Great Banquet - Matthew 22:1-14

 

 

Not anymore than how much a bunch of Evangelical morons want to think that God is all into their bullshit coin-collecting ministries and dogmatic exclusivities.

 

 

Yeah I used to be very cynical about Evangelical ministries and the congregation's tithes but the amoral cut-throat gun-toting gangs of the U.S.A. (one tiny example of how evil and The Devil manifests) hold that same cynical bad attitude.  One can preach the good news in some city centre or street corner or it can be done in a building with facilities, money is needed to do the latter. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @dom

Yeah ... Yeah

The actual word is "Yes" - you've made this same substitution on many occasions before, but I can't help wondering: is it really that much easier and more labour-saving for you to go through the process of typing out four letters each time instead of three?  Is the idea to give the impression you're such a "cash" (as in casual) & laid-back individual (rather than simply an ungrammatical oaf, say)?

Casually enquiring,

N Joy


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter
Posted by: @dom

Yeah ... Yeah

The actual word is "Yes" - you've made this same substitution on many occasions before, but I can't help wondering: is it really that much easier and more labour-saving for you to go through the process of typing out four letters each time instead of three?  Is the idea to give the impression you're such a "cash" (as in casual) & laid-back individual (rather than simply an ungrammatical oaf, say)?

Casually enquiring,

N Joy

Who are you?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @dom

Who are you?

The name's Barter - Mister Barter, to you!

N Joy


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter
Posted by: @dom

Who are you?

The name's Barter - Mister Barter, to you!

N Joy

What a sensitive shoot. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @dom

What a sensitive shoot.

?

You asked me a question; I gave you the answer in clear, straightforward and unambiguous English (after Ian Fleming) like the helpful and amenable cove which I am.  So what's there to be sensitive about?  Whatever do you mean?  Please reply likewise.

Straight shootingly yours,

N Joy


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David Dom Lemieux
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Are you OT?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

?

?

 


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @dom

Are you OT?

Nay fellow, I'm NOT! (What is that to do with sensitive shooting & its ilk?)

Posted by: @shiva

?

!

N Joy


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Shiva
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

!

Please explaing why your are not an Operative Thetan Operating (OTO) ... yet.


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wellreadwellbred
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A meal, is central both to the Christianity pertaining JC, and to the Thelema pertaining to AC:

"23. For perfume mix meal & honey & thick leavings of red wine: then oil of Abramelin and olive oil, and afterward soften & smooth down with rich fresh blood.

24. The best blood is of the moon, monthly: then the fresh blood of a child, or dropping from the host of heaven: then of enemies; then of the priest or of the worshippers: last of some beast, no matter what.

25. This burn: of this make cakes & eat unto me. This hath also another use; let it be laid before me, and kept thick with perfumes of your orison: it shall become full of beetles as it were and creeping things sacred unto me.

26. These slay, naming your enemies; & they shall fall before you. 27. Also these shall breed lust & power of lust in you at the eating thereof.

28. Also ye shall be strong in war.

29. Moreover, be they long kept, it is better; for they swell with my force. All before me."  (Source: BOTL: III: 23-29.)

 

"26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you.

28 This is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." (Source: Matthew 26: 26:28. New International Version.)

 

"22 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take it; this is my body.”

23 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, and they all drank from it.

24 “This is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many,” he said to them.

25 “Truly I tell you, I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.” (Source: Mark 14: 22-25. New Internationl Version.)

 

"19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you." (Source: Luke 22: 19-20. New International Version.)


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wellreadwellbred
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OP: "Do you see any compatibility between the teachings of Christ and Thelema?  If so where and how? Furthermore if so how do you reconcile this considering that this is not the aeon of 'the dying god?'"

 

"... The Mass of the Phoenix makes its debut as Chapter 44 of Aleister Crowley’s Book of Lies with no real explanation.

At least the “Official Instructions of the A.’.A.’.” gives a basic description of the Mass of the Phoenix:

“An instruction in a simple and exoteric form of Eucharist. A Ritual of the Law.”

This indicates that the Mass of the Phoenix is a true Mass, in that it celebrates the Eucharist. In Liber Aleph, Crowley puts the Mass of the Phoenix on par with the Gnostic Mass:

“Neglect not the daily Miracle of the Mass, either by the Rite of the Gnostic Catholic Church, or that of the Phoenix.”

The “Miracle of the Mass” is the process of transubstantiation, whereby the bread and wine are transformed into the body and the blood of a God. The general nature of this Eucharist is explained in Chapter 20 of Magick in Theory and Practice:

“The Eucharist of Two Elements has its matter of the passives. The wafer (Pantacle) is of corn, typical of Earth; the wine (Cup) represents Water. (There are certain other attributions. The wafer is the Sun, for instance; and the wine is appropriate to Bacchus.) The wafer may, however, be more complex, as the ‘Cake of Light’ described in Liber Legis. “This is used in the exoteric ‘Mass of the Phoenix’ mixed with the blood of the Magus. This Mass should be performed daily at sunset by every Magician. ...". (Source: On the Mass of the Phoenix An Analysis by Michael Osiris Snuffin (2003) - - - https://hermetic.com/osiris/rmotpanalysis  )


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Tiger
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@wellreadwellbred
You need not place your trust in any other systems than the omnipotent king jesus way.
are you confessing to having two masters ?


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @tiger

@wellreadwellbred
You need not place your trust in any other systems than the omnipotent king jesus way.
are you confessing to having two masters ?

We need to wait before we can say that Jesus and Buddha are relevant to today's world.  Horus needs to conquer the world first, that hasn't happened fully yet has it?  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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@dom
Ah so your following the passive wait and see route.


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

"... The Mass of the Phoenix makes its debut as Chapter 44 of Aleister Crowley’s Book of Lies with no real explanation.

... The wafer may, however, be more complex, as the ‘Cake of Light’ described in Liber Legis. “This is used in the exoteric ‘Mass of the Phoenix’ mixed with the blood of the Magus. This Mass should be performed daily at sunset by every Magician.".

It is indeed a most curious eucharistic ceremony.  Do you (=anybody?) actually know of anyone (even at second hand) who has ever performed it for more than any three consecutive evenings in a row, let alone "daily"?

N Joy


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Shiva
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

It is indeed a most curious eucharistic ceremony.  Do you (=anybody?) actually know of anyone (even at second hand) who has ever performed it for more than any three consecutive evenings in a row, let alone "daily"?

I find it interesting that Bred mentioned it as "exoteric."

I find it hard to contain the concept that it is "unexplained." There is a Commentary, as well as a direct referral to another chapter where further explanation is further explained. I find no obscurity or lack of explantion. It, like many others, is a standalone Class D ritual.

I don't know anyone who has done it even once, except maybe as an insistence by me so they could "get the feel of it."

From April '65 to June '65 ( 3 months), I performed it daily. Several times with legal LSD-25 to enhance the vibe. My magical name was Phoenix, and my number has always been 44. Allow me to submit in evidence, exhibit A, my original lamen from 1965-6 ...

image

Now follows the confession ... In the first ritual, I carved the sign, seen within the truncated pyramid at the bottom of the lamen, the foundation of the pyre. Not very deep, but, but blood flowed, so I am guilty of self-mutilation and macho gusto.

Having done that part once (is enough), I switched to a single dagger point in the centier of the cross in the circle. Enough depth and gusto to produce a single drop of sangria.

From 1966 to about 1968 (3 years), I performed this rite (after several someone elses did the Arranging, Banishing, Invocation of Thoth, & Energies [Reguli]. The main event then featured The Phoenix doing his Rite. This was weekly. Saturday Nights. Acid. A very hot Hot Zone.

In '68, Weekends were devoted to hauling the heaviest products available (Bulldozers, 10,000 gallon Fuel Taknks, Well-drilling rigs, trailers loaded with tools and supplies) across the Sonoran Desert, at night, so Ritual performances were abbreviated.

Eventually the whole ritual review got condensed down into the Gnostic Mass, where I played the protagonist ... but I really didn't like it and still don't. It's like fucking church, and the lost Rite of the Phoenix symbolizes, for me, the golden age of the Hot zone ... when everything was under control.

 


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ignant666
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I have done it a few dozen times (early '80s) as well.

I always picture the view out my window at the time (of the Williamsburg Bridge in Brooklyn) whenever i hear of this ritual. I used to do it looking out that window, i'm not sure why.

For "the proper sign", i used the astrological sun symbol (circle with a dot in middle).

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @tiger

@dom
Ah so your following the passive wait and see route.

Yeah describing Horus in such a manner that was metaphorical.  Put another way the major religions still have a lot of power within the psyche of all people.  The early Russian (anti clerical) Communists tried to attack this power by taking away the stigma around divorce.  Right there man right to the root of authoritarianism.  Of course Russia's social experiments were a disaster and we got the Red Tsar, building up stone walls we tried to knock down.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Posted by: @dom

Of course Russia's social experiments were a disaster

Actually, the disaster was probably stopping the Bolshevik "social experiments", and going for a dictatorship under Lenin, and then the much evil-er Stalin.

This is a total digression from the topic though, which is "Christianity and Thelema",  not "The Russian Revolution: Where did it go wrong?" (a topic that would be entirely inappropriate for this site).


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @dom

Of course Russia's social experiments were a disaster

Actually, the disaster was probably stopping the Bolshevik "social experiments", and going for a dictatorship under Lenin, and then the much evil-er Stalin.

 

Oh I thought i was on the Fascism thread.  Anyway that's what meant to express, it was a train wreck because the experiments were quashed hence the rise of the Red Tsar.  Do what thou wilt is about autonomy in every sphere.  Nothing functions without the medium of exchange and who owns and distributes it.  That was addressed by forward thinking people in Russia a striving for autonomy and democracy.... yes what's this thread got to do with that apart from camels trying to enter the eye of a needle?   

Does anyone think that Christ was referencing Gimel in that quote or was 4 A.D. too early to be talking about the 32 paths?   

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

"... The Mass of the Phoenix makes its debut as Chapter 44 of Aleister Crowley’s Book of Lies with no real explanation.

Posted by: @shiva

I find it hard to contain the concept that it is "unexplained."

There doesn't seem to be very much background information about the circumstances AC was under when he wrote  it, when that would have been, what the inspiration was behind it and any other relevant details of note, unless I've either missed it or forgotten it.

Posted by: @shiva

I performed it daily.

Did you also perform it at the same time (day) as Reguli, Samekh, Star Ruby or any other similar piece of work recommended for daily practice?  

Posted by: @shiva

Having done that part once (is enough), I switched to a single dagger point in the centier of the cross in the circle. Enough depth and gusto to produce a single drop of sangria.

Well yes, as I was thinking earlier that if the burin is used with sufficient pressure to draw blood and leave a light scar behind (as was the case when I have done it, on about a dozen occasions in all), this would be reinforced and the wound drawn open again the next day and on subsequent incisions such that it must leave behind permanent scar tissue after a short while?

Posted by: @dom

... Does anyone think that Christ was referencing Gimel in that [camels trying to enter the eye of a needle] quote or was 4 A.D. too early to be talking about the 32 paths? 

Apart from Gimel being the Hebrew for camel, I can't see any connection?

N Joy


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Shiva
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Posted by: @dom

Does anyone think that Christ was referencing Gimel in that quote or was 4 A.D. too early to be talking about the 32 paths?   

I vote Yes. The correlations  are too precise. The attributions to the letters was in place for centuries before the first path/tree was built "in order to understand the Hebrew concepts (by a jesuit priest 17th century).

I wonder is somebody hadn't already said it, or something so similar as to be un-overlookable, in some other country, some other time.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

There doesn't seem to be very much background information about the circumstances

These don't matter, pay no mind. The rite is presented, and sufficiently defined.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

unless I've either missed it or forgotten it.

No, you remain intact. No history, no myth, no mythopoeia. It is a direct screenplay that brings alive the Stele, and one is Ankh (or should become the essence of Ankh). It is a direct invocation of Ra-Hoor-Khuit, accompanied by the symbolic rite of ego-suicide in order to behold Ra-Hoor in his proper light.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Did you also perform it at the same time (day) as Reguli, Samekh, Star Ruby or any other similar piece of work recommended for daily practice?  

This seems to be a multi-pronged cluster missile of separate contexts concealed under a single question mark. (?)

I did it daily at Sunset. It was preceded by Banish and the Invocation of Thoth. Period. Those other rites were not involved.

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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I'm looking for the section of AC-Achad correspondence where AC describes Xianity as the root of all crime. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @shiva

This seems to be a multi-pronged cluster missile of separate contexts concealed under a single question mark. (?)

Thank you for the answer/s.

No further questions at the present time, m'lud/ yer honor!  Apart from

Posted by: @shiva

I vote Yes. The correlations  are too precise.

Does this mean you view Kether as the eye of the needle, in terms of the reference?  (And if so, are there any other reasons apart from just the path of the camel fitting in with the analogy?)

N Joy


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Shiva
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Posted by: @dom

AC describes Xianity as the root of all crime. 

And Mr Sinnett (of theo-sophy long ago) channeled a message from Morya, the Mahatma you know, which said "75% of the evil on this planet is due to organized religions."

Stepping back and examining that concept, as I have done for about 45 years since I first read it, you might come to the conclusion that this is true.

I believe there was Crime before christianity. Isn't it being made into a TV short, or something? Afeter about 45 millisends of analysing AC's alleged statement the Evidence is Pending), my first vote would be "No."

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Does this mean you view Kether as the eye of the needle

That saying, an allegory, is an oral transmission that paints a mental picture of a symbolic transmission that (in part) describes a direct transmission ... unless you are a rich man. "Rich" is not defined.

To answer your question, my distorted view of anything provides for the crisis to take place at the midway point of any transaction! Did you not download Hot Zones, a free book that describes the great initiation in common speak-form? (Where it is discussed, this very point, in reference to the Burning Ground). In this case, the eye of the needle is Da'ath, which is Indra's Net or the Star-Sponge.

A "rich young man" was code for the dweller at Tiphareth. The Path, The Antahkarana, the Needle runs from Tiph to Kether - halfway up the dimensional gateway called Camel-ot, one passes through a very tiny aperture called "no difference." It is the last perception of the linear mind as consciousness  flips over and ... you know. The Star-Sponge is elucidated by Frater R.'. in that same once free book.

The first three books arrived today ... but I'll go to that other Climate thread to talk about that.

So, yes, Sheesh, I admit to converging a bunch of symbols in alignment with the Camel squeezing through the eye of a Needle parable allegory saying. 

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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@shiva

Yes an illogical statement by AC there.  Crime appears in other cultures too so he probably meant what Moyra meant also in other words Patriarchal Father Gods and their nuclear family method of social organisation.  In short the Osirian aeon.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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Maybe look to the Hasmonean dynasty and the Herodian dynasty for
reinterpretations and traces of The Reception, accounting , conceptions of the higher emanations and their aspects from Sumerian categorizations in the ageless rumor mill tradition of handing down from mouth to ear; that might have been written down;or reworked through The Hekhalot visions and ascents into heavenly palaces in Ezekiel's chariot; the Daemons and Archons; the Sonships of Basilides or the Syzygies Valentinus etc. but finally surfaced in some form, with ARIZaL Isaac ben Solomon Luria.

Can the Gimel camel get through ?


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Tiger
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image

Light bringing Lucifer star of the morning championing liberation,emancipation and the struggle from the strictures, and crimes of the false god of systematized organized political ideological forms of doctrinal coercion, forcing into a mold that takes advantage and enslaves the groveling worm into conforming and not to think for itself and not to find and trust its own view.
Paragon of forbidden esoteric knowledge of science and progress, transcending ethical absurdities such as the atonement through the sacrifice of the innocent.


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @shiva

... unless you are a rich man. "Rich" is not defined.

There is a definition in Fiddler on the Roof of a rich man as somebody being able to live in "a big tall house" with "one long staircase just going up, and one even longer coming down."

Posted by: @shiva

Did you not download Hot Zones, a free book that describes the great initiation in common speak-form?

No - I was a day (4 hours) too late.  I guess I'll just have to wait until a similar offer comes round again.

Procrastinatingly yours,

N Joy


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @pertinax

<re Jesus/Christianity> 

A man arises who, having attained one of the higher trances, realises that he is God, and the son of God, and as any Bodhisattva is bound to do, sets about teaching what he knows. Yet the religious Tong of the time wants none of it, his point of view is blasphemous, claiming to be God, how dare he!?. God himself failed to live up to their image of God, (the angry, judgmental storm god YHVH), and so they have him executed for his hubris. The Romans are on hand to do this as the ruling political power at the time, albeit unwillingly, as you can tell from Pilate's reaction, he really can't see what Jesus has done wrong. But the religious authorities want him dead. Unable to outwit him they betray him.

Yet even here it gets interesting. Being God, he knows (as the Buddhists know) that suffering is intrinsic to existence, but the only way to get on is to accept things as they are, to accept the suffering and pain as part of the deal for us biological organisms. He puts his money where his mouth is, and goes calmly to a painful death. This is exactly in line with the Rose-Cross formula, not in the sense of vicarious atonement as is commonly taught among Thelemites (a very Hebrew idea, for anyone familiar with the idea of the scape-goat) but in accepting life as it is, suffering and all.

.....................................

But I digress.... 

Existence might be pure joy in theory, but................

The above statement(s) look negative, not in harmony with this Aeon of Horus.    

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @tiger

Can the Gimel camel get through ?

Of course not. A bif fat camel, or even a little skinny one, is much bigger that the Eye of any known needle. If the laws of physics, or just plain first-grade math, prevail, then it ain't gonna happen. The camel won't fit. So the whole saying must have been a reflective analogy subject to allegorical pabablism. Let's look at it differently, with some word-changing ...

It is easier for an elephant to fit completely  inside a dwarf's shoe
than it is for a crystallized man to have his ego reduced to zero.

 Now, surely, that must be more understandable to modern folks than the old version. And it has no particularly obvious references to QBL fiddlation. Essentially, both sayings tell a story of the impossibility of attainment to liberation status for somebody who is attached to worldly things in terms of self-interest.

If we bankrupt the rich man, and substitute a thin string (as in string theory) for the camel, we find that the needle can be threaded and the poor wretch can get into the Kingdom of Heaven. But that part of the parallel parable was postponed or pushed aside. These profits like to speak in coded ways, for some reason - they cannot speak their message straight.

 


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wellreadwellbred
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In Liber Aleph, Crowley puts the Mass of the Phoenix on par with the Gnostic Mass:

“Neglect not the daily Miracle of the Mass, either by the Rite of the Gnostic Catholic Church, or that of the Phoenix.”

AC exhorted frequent consumption of the Eucharist, derived from consecration of certain substances with the words "this is my body" and "this is the chalice of my blood", uttered in Greek, during a "Gnostic Mass" within his Thelema. 

And as already mentioned in this thread, a symbolic meal involving JC's 'blood' and 'flesh', is central to the Christianity pertaining to JC, and is called "the new coventant" by JC as presented in the three synoptic gospels: 

Matthew 26: 28., Mark 14: 24., , and Luke 22: 20.

 

I sense a compatibility between the teachings of Christ (as presented in Christian Biblical scriptures) and (AC's) Thelema, in that both claim to represent something new, "the new coventant" with respect to JC, and a "New Aeon" with respect to AC. 

In Chapter VII: The Three Schools of Magick (2) in Magick Without Tears, by Aleister Crowley, he states both that "Christianity, [...] may be regarded as a White ritual overlaid by a mountainous mass of Black doctrine, ...", that "The Christian religion in its simplest essence, by that idea of overcoming evil through a Magical ceremony, the Crucifixion, seems at first sight a fair example of the White tradition; but the idea of sin and of propitiation tainted it abominably with Blackness. ...", and that "For all that, the idea is there. The Mass itself is essentially a typical White ritual. Its purpose is to transform crude matter directly into Godhead. It is thus a cardinal operation of Talismanic Magick. But the influence of the Black School has corroded the idea with theological accretions, metaphysical on the one hand, and superstitious on the other, so completely as to mask the Truth altogether."

The preceding quotes from MWT, are hints at the "Gnostic Mass" within his Thelema, and its Eucharist, being the unmasked truth of "a White ritual" of Christianity. 

Also, as AC in the preceding quotes states that "The Christian religion [...] by that idea of overcoming evil through a Magical ceremony, the Crucifixion, seems at first sight a fair example of the White tradition; ...", did he ever for his Thelema (either O.T.O. or A.'.A.'.) develop a ritual involving human crucifiction?? (Was not the candidate in the Rosicrucian ritual , contained in the 5=6 Grade, of the The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn which AC was originally initiated into, actually crucified before initiation into the R.C. tomb?? Is the candidate also crucified before initiation into the R.C. tomb, within AC's Grade rituals for his Thelema?)


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