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Shiva
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

In Liber Aleph, Crowley puts the Mass of the Phoenix on par with the Gnostic Mass:

Right. One is solo-oriented, the other a group formation.

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

I sense a compatibility between the teachings of Christ (as presented in Christian Biblical scriptures) and (AC's) Thelema

I get the sames sense. Why, the entire Thelemic collection of dogma-rites in nothing more that repainted Christian ceremonies. 

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

"Christianity, [...] may be regarded as a White ritual overlaid by a mountainous mass of Black doctrine, ..."

See? Even the Niceans had their own paint buckets and brushes.

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

did he ever for his Thelema (either O.T.O. or A.'.A.'.) develop a ritual involving human crucifiction?

See the VI* OTO, where the Can.'. gets to play the part of Jack DeMolay being burned a the steak-pole, It'd not "Crucifixion" because there's no crux (cross), but just a pole. In the end the effect is the same - the Can is killed. The DeMolay rite is closer to the Phoenix archetype, what with "rising from the ashes" is probably more difficult than mere side-piercing. But then resurrection was not included in the DeMolay inineration.

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Is the candidate also crucified before initiation into the R.C. tomb, within AC's Grade rituals for his Thelema?)

Why are you asking us (me) to do your homework? Why must we (I) go copy and paste on your behalf?

OTO V*, thus ...

(He lays down the Crucifix and tramples upon it.)

Therefore, with my heel upon the head of the Great Serpent I declare this Chapter of Rose Croix duly opened in the name of BABALON and THE BEAST conjoined, of the Secret Savior and of IAO.

...

 

The Pass Word on the threshold of the Black Room, or Chamber of Death.

,,,

Oyez! Oyez! Oyez! By command of the Most Wise Sovereign, I proclaim Sir (Dame) ... a Knight (Dame) of the Pelican and Eagle, a perfect and puissant Sovereign Prince (Princess) of the Holy Order of Rose Croix of Heredom.

...

The New Covenant is established; Do What Thou Wilt is the whole of the Law.

...

A crucifixion is not indicated, but the can receives a pseudo-gouged sign upon his/her heart ... which must be permanently tatooed before he/she can re-enter the Plican's RC roost. There appears to be some text missing in my Secret rituals book, and when I came to grips with this rite in 1970, I found it garbled and inconsistent, but never got a chance to refine it because the secret chiefs wanted me out of that Tong Box before any tatooing-branding took place. They sent the FBI and the Federales so, naturally-speaking, my studies got inter-up-ted. The only "ordeal" I can detect is where the Postulant has to climb up some steps while picking up letters.

 

 

 


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dom
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Posted by: @pertinax

<re Jesus/Christianity> 

s. He puts his money where his mouth is, and goes calmly to a painful death. This is exactly in line with the Rose-Cross formula, not in the sense of vicarious atonement as is commonly taught among Thelemites (a very Hebrew idea, for anyone familiar with the idea of the scape-goat) but in accepting life as it is, suffering and all.

.....................................

But I digress.... 

Existence might be pure joy in theory, but................

dom; "The above statement(s) look negative, not in harmony with this Aeon of Horus.    "

Can I get a witness here? I'm saying Jesus is a sicko masochist!

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Posted by: @dom

Can I get a witness here? I'm saying Jesus is a sicko masochist!

This misrepresents what I said on the matter, when actually there is nothing negative about it, in fact it is life-positive, accepts reality as it is, and is entirely in harmony with the Aeon of Horus, as you put it.

Is it masochistic to accept life as it is, to accept the terms of incarnation? I said nothing about deliberately seeking out suffering, nobody needs to do that since sooner or later it will find you anyway.

My thesis is that Christ understood this, that the way out of suffering was not to deny it, but to understand that this was part of life, and should it come, as it must, to accept it with equanimity.

 


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dom
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Posted by: @pertinax

This misrepresents what I said on the matter, when actually there is nothing negative about it, in fact it is life-positive, accepts reality as it is, and is entirely in harmony with the Aeon of Horus, as you put it.

Is it masochistic to accept life as it is, to accept the terms of incarnation? I said nothing about deliberately seeking out suffering, nobody needs to do that since sooner or later it will find you anyway.

My thesis is that Christ understood this, that the way out of suffering was not to deny it, but to understand that this was part of life, and should it come, as it must, to accept it with equanimity.

 

For a start He didn't exist did he?  How long have you been into this Christ-projection like this?  How long have you been a practicing Thelemite..as it were?

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Pertinax
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Posted by: @dom

For a start He didn't exist did he?

Not relevant, it's the RC formula that matters, and this epitomizes it.

Posted by: @dom

How long have you been into this Christ-projection like this? 

It's pretty much implicit to the whole Tree of Life system, since the RC formula is right bang in the middle, so a while. I'd call it less projection and more interpreting the myth according to my current understanding. The reason I commented is because I felt you misinterpreted my original post on the matter

Posted by: @dom

How long have you been a practicing Thelemite..as it were?

25 years give or take, although like several others here, I'm really more of a post-thelemite these days, my main interests are martial arts and zen.  


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dom
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Posted by: @pertinax
Posted by: @dom

For a start He didn't exist did he?

Not relevant, it's the RC formula that matters, and this epitomizes it.

I think the way you expressed it all as a masochistic negative martyr abusing his superpowers to be in terrible pain is very relevant.   What you said about this crucifixion character and his cult of suffering-glorification is not of this Aeon. 

On Christ;

AL I.49. Abrogate are all rituals, all ordeals, all words and signs. Ra-Hoor-Khuit hath taken his seat in the East at the Equinox of the Gods; and let Asar be with Isa, who also are one. But they are not of me. Let Asar be the adorant, Isa the sufferer; Hoor in his secret name and splendour is the Lord initiating.

The Djeridensis Comment

The New Aeon: All previous formulæ now obsolete. The New Initiation-Ritual indicated.

All secret keys of the former Magick of the Aeon of the Dying God are now useless, since the Lord of this New Aeon of which I am the prophet is the Crowned and Conquering Child. Asar, the Man who suffers is no longer the type of Godhead to which Man must aspire. He needs no more to die and rise again: His great Work is now to come to know Himself as the Child ever-living. sinless, perfect, the all-shining Sun.

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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wellreadwellbred
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Me: "I sense a compatibility between the teachings of Christ (as presented in Christian Biblical scriptures) and (AC's) Thelema"

Shiva: "I get the sames sense. Why, the entire Thelemic collection of dogma-rites in nothing more that repainted Christian ceremonies."

Shiva: "OTO V*, thus ... [...]  The New Covenant is established; Do What Thou Wilt is the whole of the Law. ...".

 

Aleister Crowley's just quoted direct word by word use of the expression "the new coventant" used in manuscripts of the three synoptic gospels of Christinity, Matthew 26: 28., Mark 14: 24., and Luke 22: 20., is remarkable, as this expression is not found in any of the ancient Gnostic texts mentioning Jesus.  

Unlike what is the case for the libertine gnosticism pertaining to Aleister Crowley's eucharistic ritual the Gnostic Mass and his Gnostic Catholic Church, asceticism is considered one of the central features of the Gnostic texts discovered near the Upper Egyptian town of Nag Hammadi in 1945.

The statement "With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross.", in Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law (III:51.), is contradicted by the following statements in the mentioned Gnostic texts from Egypt:

 

“I tell you the truth, none will be saved unless they believe in my cross, for the kingdom of god belongs to those who have believed in my cross."

(Source: The Gnostic Society Library The Nag Hammadi Library The Secret Book of James (The Apocryphon of James) Translated by Marvin Meyer and Willis Barnstone - - - http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/jam-meyer.html ).

 

"Philip the messenger said, “Joseph the carpenter planted a garden of paradise because he needed wood for his trade. He made the cross from the trees he planted, and his seed hung from what he planted. His seed was Jesus, and the plant was the cross.” The tree of life in the middle of that garden of paradise is an olive tree, and from the olive tree comes chrism, and from that oil comes the resurrection."

(Source: The Gnostic Society Library The Nag Hammadi Library The Gospel of Philip Translated by Willis Barnstone - - - http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/GPhilip-Barnstone.html )

 

 

The statements "... Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.", "The word of Sin is Restriction. ...", "... Be strong, o man! lust, enjoy all things of sense and rapture: fear not that any God shall deny thee for this.", "Fear not at all; fear neither men nor Fates, nor gods, nor anything. Money fear not, nor laughter of the folk folly, nor any other power in heaven or upon the earth or under the earth. Nu is your refuge as Hadit your light; and I am the strength, force, vigour, of your arms.", and "There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.", in Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law (I:40., I:41., II:22., III:17., and III:60.), are contradicted by the following statements in the mentioned Gnostic texts from Egypt:

 

"... many are the pleasant forms which exist in numerous sins, and incontinencies, and disgraceful passions, and fleeting pleasures, which (men) embrace until they become sober and go up to their resting place. And they will find me there, and they will live, and they will not die again."

(Source: The Gnostic Society Library The Nag Hammadi Library The Thunder, Perfect Mind Translated by George W. MacRae - - - http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/thunder.html ).

 

"... I saw the angels resembling gods, the angels bringing a soul out of the land of the dead. They placed it at the gate of the fourth heaven. And the angels were whipping it. The soul spoke, saying, "What sin was it that I committed in the world?" The toll-collector who dwells in the fourth heaven replied, saying, "It was not right to commit all those lawless deeds that are in the world of the dead"."

(Source: The Gnostic Society Library The Nag Hammadi Library The Apocalypse of Paul Translated by George W. MacRae and William R. Murdock - - - http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/ascp.html ).

 

"“I tell you the truth, he will never forgive the sin of the soul or the guilt of the flesh, for none of those who have worn the flesh will be saved. Do you think that many have found the kingdom of heaven?"

(Source: The Gnostic Society Library The Nag Hammadi Library The Secret Book of James (The Apocryphon of James) - - - http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/jam-meyer.html )

 

"It is good to leave the world before one has sinned. Some have neither the will nor the ability to act. Others, even if they have the will, are better off if they do not act, for the act of the will makes them sinners." 

(Source: The Gnostic Society Library The Nag Hammadi Library The Gospel of Philip Translated by Willis Barnstone - - - http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/GPhilip-Barnstone.html )

 

""He [the chief archon] made a plan with his authorities, which are his powers, and they committed together adultery with Sophia, and bitter fate was begotten through them, which is the last of the changeable bonds. [...] For from that fate came forth every sin and injustice and blasphemy, and the chain of forgetfulness and ignorance and every severe command, and serious sins and great fears."

(Source: The Gnostic Society Library The Nag Hammadi Library The Apocryphon of John (The Secret Book of John - The Secret Revelation of John) Translated by Frederik Wisse - - - http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn.html )

 

"(27) <Jesus said,> "If you do not fast as regards the world, you will not find the kingdom. If you do not observe the Sabbath as a Sabbath, you will not see the father." [...] (79) A woman from the crowd said to him, "Blessed are the womb which bore you and the breasts which nourished you." He said to her, "Blessed are those who have heard the word of the father and have truly kept it. For there will be days when you will say, 'Blessed are the womb which has not conceived and the breasts which have not given milk.' [...] (99) The disciples said to him, "Your brothers and your mother are standing outside." He said to them, "Those here who do the will of my father are my brothers and my mother. It is they who will enter the kingdom of my father.""

(Source: The Gnostic Society Library The Nag Hammadi Library The Gospel of Thomas Translated by Thomas O. Lambdin - - - http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html )


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Tiger
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@dom
“ Can I get a witness here? I'm saying Jesus is a sicko masochist! “

Hear Hear !
Now you can count yourself in among the sprightly upholders such as Milton, Shelly, Byron, Proudhon, Crowley etc.


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dom
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Posted by: @tiger

@dom
“ Can I get a witness here? I'm saying Jesus is a sicko masochist! “

Hear Hear !
Now you can count yourself in among the sprightly upholders such as Milton, Shelly, Byron, Proudhon, Crowley etc.

I don't know if you noticed but I was insane from, I think mid-December to some time last week.   I stooped down into that Darkly splendid world of Buddhism and then Christianity.  I mostly came out of it Sunday 17th January and then  fully came out of it yesterday after a professional Deep Tissue massage

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Posted by: @dom

I don't know if you noticed but I was insane from, I think mid-December to some time last week.

!!!!

Just beyond comment. As the kids say, i can't even.


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @dom

I don't know if you noticed but I was insane from, I think mid-December to some time last week.   I stooped down into that Darkly splendid world of Buddhism and then Christianity.  I mostly came out of it Sunday 17th January and then  fully came out of it yesterday

In other words, "Mercurially yours, dom"?

N Joy


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dom
 dom
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter
Posted by: @dom

I don't know if you noticed but I was insane from, I think mid-December to some time last week.   I stooped down into that Darkly splendid world of Buddhism and then Christianity.  I mostly came out of it Sunday 17th January and then  fully came out of it yesterday

In other words, "Mercurially yours, dom"?

N Joy

I think Gemini is my Moon sign?  What are you?  A Gemini-ist? 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @dom

I think Gemini is my Moon sign?  What are you? 

My natal Moon was in Virgo, if that has the slightest bearing?

Posted by: @dom

What are you?  A Gemini-ist? 

I'm not sure what this means - someone who is pro or anti people who are Geminis (in their Moon sign)??

N Joy


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Jamie J Barter
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Apologies for the apparent duplication of post
 
N Joy

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dom
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

I'm not sure what this means - someone who is pro or anti people who are Geminis (in their Moon sign)??

N Joy

Against I guess.

Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @dom

I don't know if you noticed but I was insane from, I think mid-December to some time last week.

!!!!

Just beyond comment. As the kids say, i can't even.

Like.... what--ev--errrr!   

 

Nice to see there's still some open minds around here.   Pal, the entire world is crazy, any Marxist worth his salt  (salary?) knows that.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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dom
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Sorry....should know that.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

Just beyond comment.

Beyond even knowing what to say or even think.

 


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dom
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @ignant666

Just beyond comment.

Beyond even knowing what to say or even think.

 

What do you think is all mysticism damaging (that includes priestly organizations)?   Is mystical elation just repressed pleasure?  Is it a crutch?  "God" and all of the lesser disembodied "entities", can we admit that they are not really entities and that we don't need to pray or make petitions to Him/them/Her?   Liber Legis is a holy book which denies God;

 

AL   1:11. These are fools that men adore; both their Gods & their men are fools.  

 

1:21. With the God & the Adorer I am nothing: they do not see me. They are as upon the earth; I am Heaven, and there is no other God than me, and my lord Hadit.

 

2:22. I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs whereof I will tell my prophet, & be drunk thereof! They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self. The exposure of innocence is a lie. Be strong, o man! lust, enjoy all things of sense and rapture: fear not that any God shall deny thee for this.

2:23. I am alone: there is no God where I am.

 

From Chapter 3;

49. I am in a secret fourfold word, the blasphemy against all gods of men.

50. Curse them! Curse them! Curse them!

51. With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross.

52. I flap my wings in the face of Mohammed & blind him.

53. With my claws I tear out the flesh of the Indian and the Buddhist, Mongol and Din.

54. Bahlasti! Ompehda! I spit on your crapulous creeds.

55. Let Mary inviolate be torn upon wheels: for her sake let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!

 

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @dom

iber Legis is a holy book which denies God;

 

Or-Liber Al is a book which presents a POV from WITHIN-or AS-"God."

Posted by: @dom

there is no other God than me, and my lord Hadit

Aha! So there IS a "God."

But note: there is also a false conception of "God" which AL will seek to correct:

Posted by: @dom

With the God & the Adorer I am nothing: they do not see me. They are as upon the earth; I am Heaven

The "God & Adorer" expresses a dualism which cannot see the One (or NONE). "They are as upon the earth" (they aren't REALLY upon the illusory world which is a projection of mind-but from within the confines of the dualistic framework, it seems as if it were so and thus differences are made-and preferred-between 'this" and "that"). 

Posted by: @dom

there is no God where I am

Words Moses failed to write down while tripping out on Sinai. But the gist echos Jesus' words: "Before Abraham WAS, I AM." Hence, Jesus also says he and his Father are ONE. Not the "God and Adorer" but ONE THING. 

In other words, there is no God where I AM because I AM God.

Also note: Nuit doesn't say "I am in Heaven" but rather I AM HEAVEN (in Buddhism this is known as the Oneness of Self and Environment or Esho Funi).

 

 


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hermitas
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Posted by: @dom

What do you think[?] [Is] all mysticism damaging (that includes priestly organizations)?

No. In my experience, it wasn't the mysticism that was damaging. It was poor interpretation of the experience that was damaging.

Posted by: @dom

Is mystical elation just repressed pleasure?

Freud thought so. I think it's the same energy expressed different ways, but I'm not reductionistic about it. It's not "just" anything. It's everything.

Posted by: @dom

Is it a crutch?

Can be if you need it to be. 

Posted by: @dom

"God" and all of the lesser disembodied "entities", can we admit that they are not really entities[?]

I think that answer is complex. I don't think you are really an entity - defined as a being having "independent existence." Doesn't exist. 

Posted by: @dom

and that we don't need to pray or make petitions to Him/them/Her?

They seem not to care one way or the other.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

In other words, there is no God where I AM because I AM God.

I read it this way too. 

 

 


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dom
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Or-Liber Al is a book which presents a POV from WITHIN-or AS-"God."

Posted by: @kidneyhawk
Posted by: @dom

there is no other God than me, and my lord Hadit

Aha! So there IS a "God."

I can't argue with that as the term 'God' is a great metaphor in whatever Age/Aeon we are in e.g. (as follows  "my stars" that I, Nuit made so many billions of years ago); 

1:57   Invoke me under my stars! Love is the law, love under will. Nor let the fools mistake love; for there are love and love. There is the dove, and there is the serpent. Choose ye well! He, my prophet, hath chosen, knowing the law of the fortress, and the great mystery of the House of God.

God has a habit of springing Itself upon certain people without warning and we call these people 'prophets'.      

 

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

But note: there is also a false conception of "God" which AL will seek to correct:

The "God & Adorer" expresses a dualism which cannot see the One (or NONE). "They are as upon the earth" (they aren't REALLY upon the illusory world which is a projection of mind-but from within the confines of the dualistic framework, it seems as if it were so and thus differences are made-and preferred-between 'this" and "that"). 

I thought Leary nailed this concept with the either-or terrestrial (i..e. earth bound) limitation of the first four circuits.  Traditional prayer doesn't really lead to Dhyana as (I think) Shiva said but sometimes The Bible nailed this also albeit  on rare occasion ;"Be still and know that I am GodPsalm 46:10 i.e I AM in the gap between thoughts; KNOW.   Obviously this is why disappointed Westerners love to turn to Buddhism because hymns and sermons don't really do it for them.

 
Posted by: @kidneyhawk
 
<Posted by: @dom

there is no God where I am.>

 

Words Moses failed to write down while tripping out on Sinai. But the gist echoes Jesus' words: "Before Abraham WAS, I AM." Hence, Jesus also says he and his Father are ONE. Not the "God and Adorer" but ONE THING. 

In other words, there is no God where I AM because I AM God.

Also note: Nuit doesn't say "I am in Heaven" but rather I AM HEAVEN (in Buddhism this is known as the Oneness of Self and Environment or Esho Funi).

 

Yeah call it 'a trance'.

 

What I was driving at is that Moses, Jesus and Shakyamuni Buddha were ascetic i.e. literally dickless and Crowley knew this.  Liber Legis is probably the first ever Holy Book to address this perhaps;  

2:22. I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs whereof I will tell my prophet, & be drunk thereof! They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self. The exposure of innocence is a lie. Be strong, o man! lust, enjoy all things of sense and rapture: fear not that any God shall deny thee for this.

Why were they dickless?  They were products of their Aeon namely the oppressive class-system Patriarchal one. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @dom

They were products of their Aeon namely the oppressive class-system Patriarchal one. 

Moses and The Prince were products of the Aeon of Isis.

As for the Aeon of the "Oppressive Patriarchy," that would also be the Aeon of the Big Swinging Dick. Take a look at the writings of Feminist Mary Daly, for example, wherein she mercilessly tears into the "Cockocracy" or "Phallusocracy" dominant in said "Aeon." 

As for

Posted by: @dom

Moses, Jesus and Shakyamuni Buddha were ascetic i.e. literally dickless

I think this is one of the most absurd things I've ever read on this site. The burden of proof is on you here. I don't have a need to demonstrate that any member (no pun intended) of this revered triad possessed a penis (although there is adequate textual evidence to indicate it, if this is what the thread has come down to).  


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dom
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

 

Moses and The Prince were products of the Aeon of Isis.

Buddha was, yes, you said it a Prince, literally a  Patriarch, a product of a rigid class system.  As far as I'm concerned the Aeon of Isis is WoMan's natural state of community/tribal cooperation without a ruling minority and their goons and priests enforcing "proper" marriages within a rigid class system.  That's what a Patriarchy is and no, Moses and Shakyamuni were not around then but centuries later.  

As for the Aeon of the "Oppressive Patriarchy," that would also be the Aeon of the Big Swinging Dick. Take a look at the writings of Feminist Mary Daly, for example, wherein she mercilessly tears into the "Cockocracy" or "Phallusocracy" dominant in said "Aeon." 

You're stating that the Patriarchy is still festering now?  Damn right about that. A mere 116 years since the reception etc?  A tiny amount of time.   

 

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

I think this is one of the most absurd things I've ever read on this site. The burden of proof is on you here. I don't have a need to demonstrate that any member (no pun intended) of this revered triad possessed a penis (although there is adequate textual evidence to indicate it, if this is what the thread has come down to).  

When i say 'dickless' I meant emphatically they were ascetic and had abandoned their capacity for love/sex.   Ok, Moses we could argue he didn't but he certainly enforced the Patriarchy which is always done with sex-negating attitudes whereas (from Chapter 1 AL). 

41. The word of Sin is Restriction. O man! refuse not thy wife, if she will! O lover, if thou wilt, depart! There is no bond that can unite the divided but love: all else is a curse. Accursed! Accursed be it to the aeons! Hell.

42. Let it be that state of manyhood bound and loathing. So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will.

43. Do that, and no other shall say nay.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @dom

When i say 'dickless' I meant emphatically they were ascetic and had abandoned their capacity for love/sex

Actually, what you wrote was:

Posted by: @dom

literally dickless

Which anyone reading your post would be inclined to interpret as, well, a literal remark.

Unless by literal, you really mean figuratively.

 

 


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dom
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk
Posted by: @dom

When i say 'dickless' I meant emphatically they were ascetic and had abandoned their capacity for love/sex

Actually, what you wrote was:

Posted by: @dom

literally dickless

Which anyone reading your post would be inclined to interpret as, well, a literal remark.

Unless by literal, you really mean figuratively.

 

 

I'm more interested in clarifying what a patriarchy is and how it enforces itself. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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dom
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk
Posted by: @dom

When i say 'dickless' I meant emphatically they were ascetic and had abandoned their capacity for love/sex

Actually, what you wrote was:

Posted by: @dom

literally dickless

Which anyone reading your post would be inclined to interpret as, well, a literal remark.

Unless by literal, you really mean figuratively.

 

 

I'm more interested in clarifying what a patriarchy is and how it enforces itself. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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dom
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk
Posted by: @dom

When i say 'dickless' I meant emphatically they were ascetic and had abandoned their capacity for love/sex

Actually, what you wrote was:

Posted by: @dom

literally dickless

Which anyone reading your post would be inclined to interpret as, well, a literal remark.

Unless by literal, you really mean figuratively.

 

 

I'm more interested in clarifying what a patriarchy is and how it enforces itself. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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hermitas
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Repetition?


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @hermitas

Repetition?

I would guess a technological snafu.

Posted by: @dom

I'm more interested in clarifying what a patriarchy is and how it enforces itself. 

A Patriarchy is a male dominated society. Men hold most of the power and women are subject to it. The Culture at Large is founded upon this imbalance. A relatively recent example of The Patriarchy was America before the suffrage movement. And yes, America continued to express the imbalance in many ways from the years following until present. But the fact that there was a government entirely run by men and women could not even VOTE certainly indicates The Patriarchy.

 

That The Christian Church (as a splintering phenomenon through the ages) has served The Patriarchy is not in question. That The Christian Church has had very little to do with the Jesus of the Gospels or the Mystical Christos of the Gnostics is also not in question. When you ask about how The Patriarchy “enforces” itself....well, how do we count the ways? Keeping the populace illiterate, murdering those who show dissent, forming alliances of power and control...it goes on. It's a Game of Thrones (and interesting that Archon means RULER).

 

We can see that this Patriarchy has more than the suppression of women in its agenda. We've never had a time where all men had it good while women were used and abused. The men, too, will be ground down and subject to the rule of other men. Slavery, oppressive labor laws and so forth.

 

There is a lot in the “Glad Word” of Thelema which tackles all of this head on as a revolutionary blueprint.

 

We also know that The Church had a real interest in keeping free thought and knowledge on a short chain. Hence, the many scriptures which didn't make the final cut for the Canon and the many books which have burned. One such work was the Gospel of Mary Magdalene. What remains of this now fragmented text clearly indicates that Jesus not only shared an intimate relationship with Mary but that he entrusted her and her alone with his deepest and most profound teachings. Teachings of Jesus which The Church sought to destroy...because it didn't enforce-and could directly threaten-The Patriarchy.

 

Just don't be in such a mad hurry to crucify a toad.


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Immersed in the trance of the structures of identifications.
Its a mans world; now ain’t that a bitch.
Take out the garbage.
Can i get a yes dear ?

 


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ignant666
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The word "dickless" is one i have only previously encountered among Jewish schoolboys (when i was a goyishe schoolboy). It is a very common insult among these lads.

This is because having a penis is very important in Jewish culture/religion: to be without one's "privy member" (as the Bible puts it) means one does not count towards a "minyan", which is the minimum quorum of ten Jewish men needed to pray.

So Jesus and Moses, at least, were not "literally dickless", as this would heave been detected and noted in the Records.


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @ignant666

So Jesus and Moses, at least, were not "literally dickless"

And, of course, Gautama had married Yasodhara and fathered Rahula. So that accounts for a third fully functioning dick.

We might now turn to Ecclesiastes 4:12 which reads:

"A single dick is just a stick

But a triple prong is super strong."


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Posted by: @tiger

Can i get a yes dear ?

Yes, dear.

Posted by: @ignant666

a "minyan", which is the minimum quorum of ten Jewish men needed to pray.

And Jesus required (only) two or three. Note the absence (in the Judaeo-Christian lines) of Solitary Confinement or individual aspiration. Why, it almost seems to be a herd-type agenda.

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

Note the absence (in the Judaeo-Christian lines) of Solitary Confinement or individual aspiration. Why, it almost seems to be a herd-type agenda

Well, Moses went solo when he got lit on Sinai. Jesus went solo in the Garden (see also the 40 day long "solitary confinement" Wilderness showdown with Satan). The author of the Apocryphon of John went solo before he could encounter Christ and receive his revelation. Pre-Paul Saul got it solo when he fell off his horse. John on Patmos didn't seem to have a load of company in his cave. Etc.

Loads of Old Testament tales, too. starring characters such as Elijah, David, Daniel and others. Flying solo unless we count Dog as the Co-Pilot.

Matthew 6:6 says:

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

No attendance of Gnostic Masses or group ritual initiation required.
 


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ignant666
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Note that being an Old Testament "solo-pilot" [aka "prophet"] comes with useful siddhis like being able to curse folks "in the name of the LORD", and, for example, call upon she-bears to kill any little kids who mock you for being bald, saying "Go up, thou bald-head":

23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald-head; go up, thou bald-head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she-bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. 25 And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria [as one does after having 42 "little children" tare up by two she-bears] (2 Kings)

This is much more useful than being a Thelemic prophet, which involves getting arrested and expelled from countries and what-not, and no she-bear services at all.

Elisha DTK LAMF FTW*

* "Down To Kill Like A Motherfucker Fuck The World"; traditional old-school NYC graffiti additions to one's name. Elisha is the baldy she-bear-calling dude, for those not following in their Bibles at home.


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @ignant666

This is much more useful than being a Thelemic prophet, which involves getting arrested and expelled from countries and what-not, and no she-bear services at all.

It is, admittedly, a pretty bad-ass superpower. And if you're Joshua, you can make the sun stand still (which is really stopping the earth from movement-also highly bad-ass and formidable).

But hey....if you want to get all New Aeon in combat scenarios, you can always squish some insects after giving them the names of your enemies. Because THAT is the "New Magick" and well pleasing to the God of War and Vengeance.


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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Because THAT is the "New Magick" and well pleasing to the God of War and Vengeance.

But this "New Magick" is really lacking in past-tense accounts of effectiveness, unlike Elisha and the 42 mocking little children.

And as you note, Joshua literally had YHVH stop the sun in the sky, because otherwise there might not have been enough time to complete the total genocide of the Amorites before it got dark. See Joshua 10-12.

If you want a  "God of War and Vengeance", it would be tough to beat the OT YHVH; Horus ain't even in the runnin'.


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @ignant666

If you want a  "God of War and Vengeance", it would be tough to beat the OT YHVH; Horus ain't even in the runnin'.

You are more than correct.

He is the Crerator of GOOD and the Creator of EVIL (Isaiah 45:7).

And since he has made it crystal clear that he is the ONLY God, he creates ALL the EVIL.

 

 


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My wife reports that the case of beer that she just brought home, and that i am now drinking one of, was carried out to the car by the local Roman Catholic priest, Father Anthony. He is the only other regular purchaser of Leffe Blonde Abbey Ale at our local shop.

Hopefully this means there will be no she-bears coming my way today.


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dom
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

A Patriarchy is a male dominated society. Men hold most of the power and women are subject to it.

Not just men, a small ruling minority of men traditionally y'know like this forum.  It's difficult to talk about the patriarchy as it's all we've ever known all over the planet and since the Stone Age?

Posted by: @kidneyhawk 

That The Christian Church (as a splintering phenomenon through the ages) has served The Patriarchy is not in question.

Buddhism as well in fact (let's cut to the chas(t)e) any Big Invisible Daddy organization that unconsciously makes a fake dichotomy between the need for sex and the need to procreation,  restricts sexual pleasure and provides a weird substitute in something like praying to or leaning on mystical things like Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Allah and so on.  It isn't political it's about the conditioning  becoming our psychological processes.  

 

 When you ask about how The Patriarchy “enforces” itself....well, how do we count the ways? Keeping the populace illiterate, murdering those who show dissent, forming alliances of power and control...it goes on. It's a Game of Thrones (and interesting that Archon means RULER).

 

We can see that this Patriarchy has more than the suppression of women in its agenda. We've never had a time where all men had it good while women were used and abused. The men, too, will be ground down and subject to the rule of other men. Slavery, oppressive labor laws and so forth.

Think about it, the army and police are part of the masses of people.  When they are ordered to shoot into a crowd of street protestors they could be shooting their loved ones.  Furthermore there are much much more people than the ruling minority and their army-police, the former could overrun the ruling minority any time they want...but they don't.  They need their Hitlers, Stalins, Trumps, Tsars and Maos.  Why and what role does praying to Jesus or YHVH or Allah or hero-worshipping Big Daddy Buddha have to do with all that?     

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

There is a lot in the “Glad Word” of Thelema which tackles all of this head on as a revolutionary blueprint.

 

Yes the sexualised Thelemic Mass and in Liber Legis we have sexual God(s) enjoying and encouraging us to have  sexual ecstasy here and there.

 

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

We also know that The Church had a real interest in keeping free thought and knowledge on a short chain. Hence, the many scriptures which didn't make the final cut for the Canon and the many books which have burned. One such work was the Gospel of Mary Magdalene. What remains of this now fragmented text clearly indicates that Jesus not only shared an intimate relationship with Mary but that he entrusted her and her alone with his deepest and most profound teachings. Teachings of Jesus which The Church sought to destroy...because it didn't enforce-and could directly threaten-The Patriarchy.

 

Just don't be in such a mad hurry to crucify a toad

Well the relationship with Magdalene became lost to history so AC's toad rite was right on as it was fired at The oppressive Church.  However even if Jesus was a fully functioning sexual being I'm afraid he does not come across as such in the Gospel because his method of attainment namely the Lord's Prayer is a design for guilt-trips.  If this isn't the case then why wasn't something like the following not used instead; 

 

Our unending all-permeating energy source

Hallowed be your work whatever label we put on it

You gave us the ingenuity to find our Daily Bread (whatever that is) 

Forgive us our neurotic abuse of others as we forgive and understand those who neurotically took their shit out on us too 

But deliver us from stupid non-beneficial temptations

Enjoy sexual pleasure as we do

But deliver us from evil.

Amen

 

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @dom

However even if Jesus was a fully functioning sexual being I'm afraid he does not come across as such in the Gospel because his method of attainment namely the Lord's Prayer is a design for guilt-trips. 

Whereabouts did Sheeshus actually describe it as an actual "method of attainment" (towards the attainment of what, exactly?), and even if it was, what is there to suggest that would have been his only one?

Which bit in it is specifically meant as "a design for guilt-trips"?  It assumes "trespasses" have been made, but these could be construed as misdeeds or transgressions and I cannot see anything else which might specifically correlate.  On the whole it seems a pretty harmless sort of prayer, and can fairly easily be adapted to one's own (non-patriarchal) point of view with (minimal) inflections such as you suggest.

N Joy


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Well, Moses went solo when he got lit on Sinai. Jesus went solo in the Garden (see also the 40 day long "solitary confinement" Wilderness showdown with Satan).

Yes. Of course they did. We know that one (anyone) has to do it themselves, especially at the higher levels. But then they return and line up the followers in group formation. 

Checking out the competition, I don't recall Lao or Tahuti requiring group membership. Siddhartha and Krishna I'm not aware, on way or the other. Crowley went both ways: The A.'.A.'. line and the Tong herd. With all these variances, I guess they can be discarded as "differences," and our burden is relieved of about 20 pounds (8 or 9 Kg).

What would be nice is if they'd all come clean and admit that the group stuff is the Outer Order agenda, and the "do it yourself" function is for the Inner.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Etc.

Right. All these guys who "attained" to "something" got their data in solo mode. Or the data caught them when they were alone. But the Commandments and the Regulations don't include things like "Thou shalt go into the wilderness by yourself."

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

This is more like it. But it's just one of a few scattered lines that are not included in the official rule books.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

You are more than correct.

Praetercorrect.

Posted by: @dom

It's difficult to talk about the patriarchy as it's all we've ever known all over the planet and since the Stone Age?

I believe i mentioned this before, so this time I'll just copy and paste ...

(Oh darn and she-bears afoot. I must switch computers and risk a double post ... which is fine because this one is getting too long already).

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @dom

However even if Jesus was a fully functioning sexual being I'm afraid he does not come across as such in the Gospel

My copy of “JESUS” by Church Historian Charles Guignebert is an exhaustive study of what could be derived from all sources available at the time concerning the historicity of the man known as Jesus Christ. This book was first published in the mid-30s. My copy has a date of 1956.

 

Now Guignebert died in 1939. He certainly would have been more than interested in material revealed in the subsequent decades including the Nag Hammadi Library. However, most mainline churches and their members are going to hold fast to the synoptic gospels as the legit, canonized and “need nothing more” basis regarding Jesus. Guignebert approaches the content of these four books with his dispassionate scholarship.

 

Why don't we know more about the rollicking sex life of the Nazarene? We might also ask why we don't more about his life PERIOD.

 

CG's book notes that the gospels were not intended to be biographies but manuals of ritual, teaching and indoctrination. They are no more biographies than Nietzsche's Zarathustra.

 

Bear in mind that CG's scholarship is immense. His study exceeds 500 dense pages of study. But he concludes:

 

“We know nothing of the personality of Jesus, scarcely anything of the facts of his life, little as to his teaching, and can only speculate as to his career.”

 

His book also notes that the space of time actually covered in the Gospels could not exceed more than a few weeks. But apparently “Matthew” was a better selling title than “A Month with The Messiah.”

 

Guignebert's book ends with this:

 

“The Christian religion is not the religion which filled the whole being of Jesus; he neither foresaw nor desired it...Enthusiasm engendered Christianity, but it was the enthusiasm of the disciples, not that of Jesus.”

 

Jesus, as a historical personage, will be extraordinarily difficult-if not flat out impossible-to pin down. Yet arguing for the existence of a “real guy” is a tactic used by many who hit the pavement to witness for Christ.

 

I bring all of this up as Dom's take on Jesus seems to be (at the moment) an attack on a historical figure (with a lot of assumptions drawn from what we can see is tremendously limited source material).

 

Personally, I am in agreement with Kierkegaard who criticized his contemporaries in the Danish Lutheran Church who were focused on honing in on the “Historical Jesus.” Kierkegaard would conclude that the further one got to this elusive creation, the farther one got from the True and Living Christ who is encountered in the Immanence where Time and Eternity are joined. This Immanence is embodied in the “God-Man” (SK's term) which we can see expressing the “In the World but not OF it” Life-Stream of Initiation.

 

Blake went further and saw Jesus as the Divine Imagination. Not even a “State” but the very Life of God. And the True God (with whom the Son is One) is not the blood-slurping bi-polar sadist who pops up in the OT (say, to whack a few dozen kidlets) but the undifferentiated consciousness back of all “fallen” dualistic experience (the ONE from whence emanates Barbelo, the Autogenes, Aions and so forth).

 

So with the Gospels, we are looking at something which is addressed to the “Spiritual Senses” (as Blake would say). What they say (or don't) about the sex life of someone who we clearly cannot get any sort of historical handle on is irrelevant. There is a Way of Initiation (into the Kingdom of God) being described and depicted. These also need to be read outside of subsequent “official” interpretation (including the canonized Pauline epistles). And we may also read them profitably in context of certain Gnostic Gospels. For example, Luke, John and Acts did not appear until AFTER the writing of the Secret Book of John. These recently unsealed scrolls yield up even more vision, poetry and intel for the Initiatic Mind!


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Shiva
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REFERENCE SECTION
(Self-verified)

There is no historical backing for the Isis Aeon, except maybe in The Garden of Eden before the violation of The One Rule and subsequent eviction by Elohim's Sire-Reeve ...

"Unlike the great multitudes of people who populate Earth today, there were various isolated groups, much like tribes of apes, wandering in search of food. The tribe was led by one powerful male with a harem, guarded jealously, and dominated mercilessly.The welfare of a tribe depended entirely on the strength and skill of the male leader. New bloodlines were introduced into the family by club courtship whenever man encountered another group of his own kind. In this way younger females were stolen back and forth, an exhausting procedure especially hard on the females, and unprofitable to the race as a whole."

- The Book of Life, as quoted in Hot Zones

Then, to get even more specific ...

" [quote]

Reality Fact-Check

The sequence of the Æons is in synchronic harmony with the concept of the mystical family: Mother, Father, Son, and Daughter. Internally, this describes the Creation of the World, and the Path of Return. See The Tree of Life, Liber AL - Ch 1, and The Wake World for the feminine point of view on both these matters.

The sequence is not in harmony with the formula of Tetragrammaton, YHVH, which is Father, Mother, Son, and Daughter, putting the Patriarch first as the prime mover, which is a product of the "old" Osirian Æon, so any resemblance thereto may easily be disregarded. The number 4 is stable but slippery; there are different arrangements.

The sequence matches just fine with the three and the four stages of a Lifetime, which is much more personal and applicable than, say, two-thousand year Æons.

While there is evidence that our civilization did indeed wrap itself around an invisible maypole planted closely around 1904, entering a world of ever-increasing, technical marvels, the 2,000-year matrix is rather shaky. It fails to synchronize properly with the Aquarius constellation, and it fails when submitted to a review of history.

The theorem implies that civilization was ruled by matriarchal politics from ~2,000 BC until ~Ø BC/AD. It also disregards the Æon from ~4,000 BC until ~2,000 BC. However, a search of generally-accepted, historical findings in both of these BC Æons does not reveal a preponderance of feminine thinking or matriarchal political structures. Sure, there were a few queens and goddesses, but mainly the days were ruled and governed by men.

Perhaps I missed the part where the ladies were in charge. Either that or the Æon theorem does not reflect the history of our civilization.

Nevertheless, the Æons reflect the zones of a person's Lifetime."

- Appendix IV - Hot Zones

 


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dom
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Why don't we know more about the rollicking sex life of the Nazarene? We might also ask why we don't more about his life PERIOD.

 

CG's book notes that the gospels were not intended to be biographies but manuals of ritual, teaching and indoctrination. They are no more biographies than Nietzsche's Zarathustra.

  Personally, I am in agreement with Kierkegaard who criticized his contemporaries in the Danish Lutheran Church who were focused on honing in on the “Historical Jesus.” Kierkegaard would conclude that the further one got to this elusive creation, the farther one got from the True and Living Christ who is encountered in the Immanence where Time and Eternity are joined. This Immanence is embodied in the “God-Man” (SK's term) which we can see expressing the “In the World but not OF it” Life-Stream of Initiation.

 

Blake went further and saw Jesus as the Divine Imagination. Not even a “State” but the very Life of God. And the True God (with whom the Son is One) is not the blood-slurping bi-polar sadist who pops up in the OT (say, to whack a few dozen kidlets) but the undifferentiated consciousness back of all “fallen” dualistic experience (the ONE from whence emanates Barbelo, the Autogenes, Aions and so forth).

 

Ok fair enough this initiatory level of consciousness 'Jesus' which may not in fact be a tool of sex repression is another story.  It's lost to history and the warped version (although espousing wisdom) is a tool of oppression.

If the international community do dissolve oppression they will come to the wisdom of Christ which is multi -faceted. One aspect vey relevant to today's world is the notion that we are part of the animal kingdom and that isn't a 'dirty' shameful thing.  Animals go about their business of survival in a purely functional way but a lot of us don't.  Most of our jobs do not give us natural biological pleasure.  Don't get me wrong I am 'in the zone' here and there at my job but there are periods of hassle and tedium.  Our job should give the same pleasurable sense of fulfilment that e.g. a sculptor or a film maker gets after or during his work.   Maybe Christ touched on this when he said "Consider the lillies and the birds they do not toil" etc.   

 

 

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Whereabouts did Sheeshus actually describe it as an actual "method of attainment" (towards the attainment of what, exactly?), and even if it was, what is there to suggest that would have been his only one?

Well tear out the flesh of his teachings for yourself.   What does he offer?  The kingdom of Heaven, right?  What did he teach extensively?  What the Kingdom of Heaven is like in metaphor or parable.  I must admit I don't get the parables, they don't really do it for me.  If you condense it down it come to this; you will be free if you enter the Kingdom of Heaven so you need to give to 'the poor', hold back on judging others and ask for help from YHVH (?!  ugh no thanks) in sincere non-hypocritical petition.... in short specifically use The Lord's Prayer.

 

 

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Which bit in it is specifically meant as "a design for guilt-trips"?  It assumes "trespasses" have been made, but these could be construed as misdeeds or transgressions and I cannot see anything else which might specifically correlate

Temptation and trespasses.  I'm with the view in that I think there are sexual-guilt overtones in all of it....or that's what the Priests intended, maybe they warped it for their own ends.   They certainly liked to warn children of the apparent detriment of masturbation so it all comes together within the framework of what the edited historical Jesus apparently preached.   How about Original Sin? Can you think of anything more warped than that?   What's all this about he who has looked upon a woman in passion has already committed adultery?   

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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kidneyhawk
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The Lord's Prayer is a template, a sort of overview of the basic elements which are to be addressed when communing with God. Jesus is simplifying matters here in response to the request: How should we pray?

 

Temptation is not a word which makes me immediately think of guilt. Crowley even emphasized that we need to uproot those things in our life which might attract (tempt) us but which distract us from our True Will.   

 

Likewise, Jesus sums up the essence of the painfully numerous commandments of the OT in two basic injunctions: Love God with all your Heart and Love your Neighbor as Yourself. This presents THREE elements. God, Your Neighbor (other people/creatures), Yourself. What do these three have in common?

 

They are all ONE THING.

 

Posted by: @dom

What's all this about he who has looked upon a woman in passion has already committed adultery? 

 

 

I don't see this as condemning sexual desire (without which there'd be no sex, no people and no one to enter the Kingdom of Heaven). The Song of Solomon must be regarded as “erotic literature” as much as it is also considered a metaphor of Christ and the Church (and note that the chosen metaphor for this relationship between Heaven and Earth is an expressly sexual one).

 

No, I see this verse as Jesus indicating the mental origin and substance of all things, a basic occult teaching.


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dom
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk 

Temptation is not a word which makes me immediately think of guilt. Crowley even emphasized that we need to uproot those things in our life which might attract (tempt) us but which distract us from our True Will.   

If I'm not mistaken AC's most blatant exposition of True Will is in Book 4 where he uses the analogy of an otter that  builds a dam with a natural purpose.  Likewise he said directly that Do what thou wilt is to order vines to grow grapes.  What we have here is vegetative plant consciousness and animal consciousness.  Plants know where Sunlight is and they lean towards it and they also know which way gravity drags from and this where the roots head for which is where the minerals are.  Is that not True Will?  

 

Likewise Mathew 6:

 

29;And why do you worry about clothes? Consider how the lilies of the field grow: They do not labour or spin.

 

26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 Which of you by worrying can add one [a]cubit to his [b]stature?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
(@tiger)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1769
 
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Eliphas Levi

 

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Madame Blavatsky

 

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Stanislas de Guaita

 

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Grant

 

 

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jesus

 

 

 


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 13 years ago
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Posted by: @tiger

jesus

We all know that Jesus had a beard. Who is this impostor?

 


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Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
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Posted by: @dom

Most of our jobs do not give us natural biological pleasure.  Don't get me wrong I am 'in the zone' here and there at my job but there are periods of hassle and tedium.  Our job should give the same pleasurable sense of fulfilment that e.g. a sculptor or a film maker gets after or during his work.

Our work should, but in most cases doesn't.  In a world where millions of people live closely together in cities, someone has to clean out the toilets and dispose of the shit, to give one example: I can't imagine many people getting a "pleasurable sense of fulfilment" from that, far less a sense of vocation (and I can only think of possibly one exception to the general rule, in fact: the relatively cheerful portaloo services cleaner featured in the film of Woodstock whose sentiments seemed fairly close to it).

Posted by: @dom

Temptation and trespasses.  I'm with the view in that I think there are sexual-guilt overtones in all of it....or that's what the Priests intended, maybe they warped it for their own ends.   They certainly liked to warn children of the apparent detriment of masturbation so it all comes together within the framework of what the edited historical Jesus apparently preached. 

I can't see any signs of that in the LP either (along with the "methods of attainment")

Posted by: @dom

How about Original Sin? Can you think of anything more warped than that? 

So where is Original Sin explicitly referred to in the LP also?

Posted by: @dom

Plants know where Sunlight is and they lean towards it and they also know which way gravity drags from and this where the roots head for which is where the minerals are. 

What does this mean, what is the relevance of minerals here?

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Temptation is not a word which makes me immediately think of guilt. Crowley even emphasized that we need to uproot those things in our life which might attract (tempt) us but which distract us from our True Will.   

Yes, good points made in your post here. 

and I can't find anything to do with a "method of attainment" (e.g. something which involves initiations/grades) implied anywhere in either the LP or Sheesh's talking about it.

Posted by: @tiger
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jesus

Did you know that Marcelo Motta (he of the apparent one-time headship of the new duplex A.'.A.'.) reckoned that the "winners of the Ordeal x" mentioned in The Book of the Law (III:22) are people who perceive that AC - or the 666 manifestation of The Beast anyway - "is the Christ, or Messiah," of the New Aeon, replacing J.C. from two thousand years ago who is now therefore made redundant (and as he himself will be in turn).  Motta even went on to say

This perception must be intuitional; it cannot be a matter of dogma or faith.  Whosoever does not have it is not qualified to officiate at Thelemic rites.

(So if you didn't know before, you do now!  Resulting in resignations all round?)

N Joy


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