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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

(Bold added by me to quoted text[-s], for the sake of clarity:)

 

 

I think more than bold would be required for that.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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hadgigegenraum
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Mary is a female name...not knowing who the father was is legion...an old story, including calling all woman whores...to which the gesture of Joseph speaks to a protection of mothers and their children, and the child in question, who identified who his father really was, did not segregate stars by not treating a prostitute named Mary as something other than a receptacle to be used under contract (where the house gets paid, not the vehicle)...

Be fruitful and multiply is not anti-sex, but guilt regarding physical contact was the source of great sado masochistic guilt trips which Thelema has served to break (???),... by not crushing the little flowers...!

 

 

 


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RuneLogIX
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If anyone is interested in exploring Liber AL text reversed as mentioned previously, I uploaded it as text file here https://pastebin.com/qPtvnKY4 New lines are not truncated yet I will need to play around with the sed or tr to get that correct. (source: sed -e 's/\s+/ /g' -e 's/ /\n/g' < liber.txt | rev | tr '\n' ' ' ; echo )

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


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RuneLogIX
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@hadgigegenraum The only portion of Liber AL that bothers me is "let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!" What business is it of yours if the women are chaste? The disbanding of the Vestial Virgins and the extinguishing of the sacred fire is a prominent feature in the fall of Romanum pietas deorum. Unless women means something else.

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @runelogix

What business is it of yours if the women are chaste?

Crowley didn't like chaste women.

Therefore, the Book backs him up.


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Tiger
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Most scholars believe that religious influence paled in comparison to military, economic, administrative factors that contributed to the fall of Rome.

Vesta was not the only pietas.
There were a great number of deities honored.
Outside of civil theology there were also The Mysteries concealed from the profane.
A woman in status of her own right not owned by man or the disposable property of the father; a powerful woman of means, regardless of celibacy was sometimes referred to as Virgin.

Gather the wood, light the sacred fire, knead the dough and make cakes of bread, burn incense, pour out drink and offerings to her;
Bright Queen of Heaven.
Lady of the sky,
Daughter of the Moon,
erotic ,beautiful, unpredictable,
uninhibited, desirous, overwhelming, engorged, enraptured, inspired with urge of spirit;
calling forth treasures that erupt from the depths of moonlit crossroads and fathomless ever shifting seas;
more than mere ordinary utilitarian man;
not confined to inherent sin and civil perfunctory procreation;
turning heads
to beauty, magic and wonder;
may the foam-born
Aphrodisia festivals be launched !


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @runelogix

@hadgigegenraum The only portion of Liber AL that bothers me is "let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!" What business is it of yours if the women are chaste? The disbanding of the Vestial Virgins and the extinguishing of the sacred fire is a prominent feature in the fall of Romanum pietas deorum. Unless women means something else.

So that's the only line that bothers you?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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RuneLogIX
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@dom Probably

Posted by: @tiger

There were a great number of deities honored.

Yeah you would almost think there was a Pantheon devoted to pantheist deities. This ingenious commentary is such an incredible epiphany, of such nuance and incredible depth, I would think you should have the BBC hire you to explain to the public that the BBC is the British Broadcast Corporation. I am grateful that someone of such profound insight could explain such a fact to a pantheist on a pantheist forum. Really incredible stuff. And your analysis is definitely more coherent than Mary Beard's 20 hour or so commentary on the topic. Presumably you have more teeth too.

@dom We know you have reading comprehension issues but really try to elicit a non binary response if you want a discussion to enfold because I am not going to repeat myself.

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @runelogix

 

@dom We know you have reading comprehension issues but really try to elicit a non binary response if you want a discussion to enfold because I am not going to repeat myself.

There's a lot of sections in Chapter 3 that would give any SJW a lot to decry but you're not bothered about those sections because somehow now you're an ultra-feminist or something?  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @runelogix

.

@dom We know you have reading comprehension issues but really try to elicit a non binary response if you want a discussion to enfold because I am not going to repeat myself.

Who is the 'we'?  A reminder of who you are unless you've had radical therapy since a year ago;

 

On page 3 of this thread here;  

Do Communists, Anarchists and Leftists ‘fear money’? – Thelema – LAShTAL.COM Forum 

our friend Runelogix (who hates 'binary responses')  had stated (as documented by me in my post @

The people of a nation on a whole are children and if they are not cared for, nurtured, and cared for to behave in beneficial ways you have the exact kind of dysfunction you see among a large percentage of black Americans: complete anti-social breakdown and an inevitable mass incarceration for societies protection from out of control people. The last thing these people need is more fentanyl. The people without discipline are no better than slaves.

In the subsequent post I asked "Why single out 'the black Americans' in your argument as oppose to white or any other colour?" and he answered; "  Because statistics lives matter."

 

As Ignant said on the same page;  (I think we now need to amend his summation and add  "ultra-feminist" to the following list) ; 

 

   

So far in just this thread, @runelogix is a Thelemic fundamentalist, Trump-supporter, Gorean warrior, homophobe, and hater of drug users, (and i'm sure i've left stuff out), who thinks self-described "superfascist" Evola was a pinko softy, and "liked men too" despite his (Evola's) virulent homophobia.

And is either a big fan of gay Nazi Ernst Rohm, or of other Nazis killing gay Nazis like Ernst Rohm, or, perhaps, both.

Clearly a man we should all listen to.

 

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @runelogix

because I am not going to repeat myself.

@dom Alas, he (or she) always does. So, don't be too touchy about his (or her) comments, he (or she) is nothing but a troll. I mean, we all envy him (or her) because of his (or her) achievements in the crypto currencies business (if they are true), but anything else from him (or her) so far was just ridiculous nonsense, though niftily phrased. A pathetic example of a loud-mouthed megalomaniac nothing. Or - as I just said - a niftily phrasing troll. We had quite a few of them over the years.

Just my two cents, as they say.

Love=Law

Lutz


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Shiva
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Just my two cents

Congratulations!  For only two cents you have just ignited ww4 (ww3 is now online and in the streets worldwide). But, please, before the end, can you tell me why crypto-current-cy has any value (other than a few guys/gals at the bottom/top of the pyramid  agreed it was so ... then the followers ran in up like a manic stock market scramble)?


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @shiva

can you tell me why crypto-current-cy has any value

Sorry, no, I can't, but it feels like we (old people) missed something. Maybe not. Probably not.

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Maybe not. Probably not.

All non-value pyramid schemes work really well for the founders and the early followers. The tail-end followers pay all the bills for those who are sitting higher on the pyramid. By doing so, they lose their investment. The trick is to know when "early" becomes "too late."

On the other hand, with the US Natl Debt looking toward 30 trillion, I believe it is all crytpo-casho now ... except for those ancient coin things that are made from gold or silver.


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @shiva

All non-value pyramid schemes work really well for the founders and the early followers. The tail-end followers pay all the bills for those who are sitting higher on the pyramid. By doing so, they lose their investment. The trick is to know when "early" becomes "too late."

Yep, what looked like a real alternative in the monetary sector has become (logically in the end) just one more toy for the rich to get richer. A few exceptions allowed. Whoever still thinks of it as as "free and independent currency" is just foolish. It might break up "regular" currencies but it won't break up the money hierarchy.

For us regular folks it is probably way too late.

Love=Law

Lutz


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Shiva
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

For us regular folks it is probably way too late.

But we are not regular, except in our devotions. Says so in Liber AL, writ by ol' Fakey, who could not keep dates straight. That reminds me of a loose end.

In one of the introductory Libers, it is written that the Probationer, et al, must write his Record plainly, so that someone else can read it (no secret codes).

Then, here we are, a hundred years later, and reading the original manuscripts of yestercentury we find discrepancies, irregularities, and secret codes!

So much for Record writ that someone can understand.

Anyway, we are the boys of LAShTAL U.
Gamblin' with dollars we eschew.
We don't smoke and we don't chew.
And we don't go with girls that do.

 


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wellreadwellbred
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Compatibility between Christianity and Aleister Crowley's Thelema:

(JC & AC both having a Messiah complex:)

 

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

(Source: The Bible, John 14:6)

"... there is no other way into the Supernal Mystery but through her [= BABALON ], and the Beast on which she rideth ...". 

(Source: The Vision and the Voice [= the second most important book of A.C.'s Thelema, according to him in chapter 66 of his book Confessions] "The Cry of the 3rd Aethyr"). - - - https://www.tarrdaniel.com/documents/Thelemagick/publication/english/Liber_CCCCXVIII.html )

 

( "... the Beast whereon she [ = Babalon ] rideth is the Lord of the City of the Pyramids, that I beheld in the fourteenth Aethyr." ( Source: The Vision and the Voice, "The Cry of the 12th Aethyr". ) )

 

"... In The Vision and the Voice (16th Aethyr), Crowley wrote, "This is Babalon, the true mistress of the Beast; of Her all mistresses on lower planes are but avatars." Although Crowley often wrote that Babalon and the Scarlet Woman are one, there are also many instances where the Scarlet Woman is seen more as a representative or physical manifestation of the universal feminine principle.

We the find in the 1996 popular edition of The Law is for All (as edited by Hymenaeus Beta based upon the final Wilkinson manuscript). "It is necessary to say here that The Beast appears to be a definite individual; to wit, the man Aleister Crowley. But the Scarlet Woman is an officer replaceable as need arises. Thus to this pesent date of writing [...], there have been several holders of the title."

( Source: "Bacground to Thelema [...] Babalon - The Scarlet Woman [...] Aspects of Babalon[.] Babalon although a very complex figure, has three essential aspects within Thelemic literature: * The Gateway to the City of the Pyramids (the mystical home of those adepts who hace crossed the Abyss) * The Office of the Scarlet Woman * The Great Mother [...] The Office of the Scarlet Woman" - - - http://www.tomegatherion.co.uk/thelema.htm )

 

"... this is a mystery utterly beyond thine understanding. For Wisdom is the Man, and Understanding the Woman, and not until thou hast perfectly understood canst thou begin to be wise.” 

( Source: The Vision and the Voice, 12th Aethyr - - - - https://www.tarrdaniel.com/documents/Thelemagick/publication/english/Liber_CCCCXVIII.html )


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David Dom Lemieux
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Some of us view the return of Christ or Christian principles as a part of the oncoming Aron of Maat.  What about Christ's self sacrifice (allowing Roman soldiers to brutalize him and so on) and the turning of the other cheek?

"I do not wish to argue that the doctrines of Jesus, they and they alone, have degraded the world to its present condition. I take it that Christianity is not only the cause but the symptom of slavery. There were slaves in Rome, of course, even under the republic. But it was only through Paul that the slime found tongue, and uttered its agony and blasphemy. Now, through the steady growth of altruism pari-passu with the Gospel that advocates it, the world is come to such a pass that the canaille is throned."
—Aleister Crowley

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

What about Christ's self sacrifice (allowing Roman soldiers to brutalize him and so on) ...

Yes, what about it? We all know the story, and what aspect do you wish us to see?

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

... and the turning of the other cheek?

Passive resistance. Gimme your best shot. I will not resist.

That stuff? I think it depends on the circumstances, but it's hard to think about just standing there while he/they/she kills, or strikes, one's self.

Also, please compare turning the other cheek to Jesus wailing on the Moneylenders in the Temple.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

it was only through Paul

I have heard rumors that Saul/Paul, who walked the Road to Damascus, was responsible for laying the foundations of the Western Osirian Conspiracy. We all were mostly born into that illusionary hypocrisy, and then we discovered Horus.

"All of these were men. Their deification is the result of mythopoeia ("myth-making"). -AC


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

What about Christ's self sacrifice (allowing Roman soldiers to brutalize him and so on) ...

Yes, what about it? We all know the story, and what aspect do you wish us to see?

 

Well what would the last 2000 years have been like without this?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

what would the last 2000 years have been like without this?

I dunno, but the Church established western civilization. Constantine, who was (more or less) the top alpha dog in western civilization, had the Bishops get together and devise a coherent system that unified diverse concepts: Christians, Mithrasers, Pagans, etc.  So they came up with this long story based on the Olde Hebrew Writ, and amplified by the Newe Roman Reports as assembled by our hero, Saul/Paul.

This new system went on to evangelize the western world, later spreading into North and South America. The evangelizing included killing indigenous people, stealing gold, inquisiting  folks by torture, burning of witches and political enemies, and accepting bribes (indulgences) in order to "keep infractors from earning bad karma."

I suppose, if it were in the cosmic deck to have an Osirian era, they could have used Egypt, or Dionysus, or Mithras. The result would be the same ... a strong centralized gov (based on religion).

Now this all gets complicated by the fact that the Chinese were on their own track, which did not include Jesus or Mithras figures. From 0 AD to 1912, or so, they usually had a strong central gov based on who had the most effective army. The Great Emperor Chin (China is his land) defeated everyone and united the Waring states of "The Middle Land." Then he started building The Great Wall, which both the mongols and the Manchurians got around in later times. But they had no Christ figure. Some adopted Buddhism from evangalistic Buddhists.

The Tibetans insist that part (maybe all) of the practice is to be completely present in the here-now. Questions relating to "what if" or "would have been" are of no consideration.

You spoke of "turning the other cheek" and asked where we would be now without this?"

"Turning the cheek" was uttered ... and everybody, especially the Church, went on making sure their victims turned that cheek with chains, ropes, fire, and steel.

Which is exactly where we (still) are, now.


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David Dom Lemieux
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@shiva so the last Christian died on the cross?  Yeah Christ's teachings have generally been ignored especially by governments and a lot of Church officials who were basically more like Al Capone or Hitler than Christ.  To get a sense of what the Inquisition were like look at the Taliban.  They probably do a lot of praying  and tell themselves that they are doing God's work.  

The irony is the Devil's spawn Polytheistic Pagan Romans were tolerant of indigenous cultures and they allowed them to flourish as long as they paid homage to Rome.....otherwise they decimated them.

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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Saint 666 who claimed Aiwass, his HGA, was Satan, the Devil;
suggested liberating sexual energy for purposes other than the missionary position of procreation with experimentation.
If at first you don’t succeed try try again.
And showed the rabble that they could lift their chains from the diabolical dominion of the church.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

look at the Taliban. 

Yeah, I just did. Everyone's getting a good look in the here-now.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

the Devil's spawn

"The devil does not exist." -AC

Posted by: @tiger

lift their chains from the diabolical dominion of the church.

It's funny [?] how the so-called Church varied a bit in its approach to enforcing the simple recommendations of the original "Christian."

 


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