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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

(Bold added by me to quoted text[-s], for the sake of clarity:)

 

 

I think more than bold would be required for that.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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hadgigegenraum
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Mary is a female name...not knowing who the father was is legion...an old story, including calling all woman whores...to which the gesture of Joseph speaks to a protection of mothers and their children, and the child in question, who identified who his father really was, did not segregate stars by not treating a prostitute named Mary as something other than a receptacle to be used under contract (where the house gets paid, not the vehicle)...

Be fruitful and multiply is not anti-sex, but guilt regarding physical contact was the source of great sado masochistic guilt trips which Thelema has served to break (???),... by not crushing the little flowers...!

 

 

 


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RuneLogIX
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If anyone is interested in exploring Liber AL text reversed as mentioned previously, I uploaded it as text file here https://pastebin.com/qPtvnKY4 New lines are not truncated yet I will need to play around with the sed or tr to get that correct. (source: sed -e 's/\s+/ /g' -e 's/ /\n/g' < liber.txt | rev | tr '\n' ' ' ; echo )

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


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RuneLogIX
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@hadgigegenraum The only portion of Liber AL that bothers me is "let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!" What business is it of yours if the women are chaste? The disbanding of the Vestial Virgins and the extinguishing of the sacred fire is a prominent feature in the fall of Romanum pietas deorum. Unless women means something else.

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @runelogix

What business is it of yours if the women are chaste?

Crowley didn't like chaste women.

Therefore, the Book backs him up.


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Tiger
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Most scholars believe that religious influence paled in comparison to military, economic, administrative factors that contributed to the fall of Rome.

Vesta was not the only pietas.
There were a great number of deities honored.
Outside of civil theology there were also The Mysteries concealed from the profane.
A woman in status of her own right not owned by man or the disposable property of the father; a powerful woman of means, regardless of celibacy was sometimes referred to as Virgin.

Gather the wood, light the sacred fire, knead the dough and make cakes of bread, burn incense, pour out drink and offerings to her;
Bright Queen of Heaven.
Lady of the sky,
Daughter of the Moon,
erotic ,beautiful, unpredictable,
uninhibited, desirous, overwhelming, engorged, enraptured, inspired with urge of spirit;
calling forth treasures that erupt from the depths of moonlit crossroads and fathomless ever shifting seas;
more than mere ordinary utilitarian man;
not confined to inherent sin and civil perfunctory procreation;
turning heads
to beauty, magic and wonder;
may the foam-born
Aphrodisia festivals be launched !


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @runelogix

@hadgigegenraum The only portion of Liber AL that bothers me is "let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!" What business is it of yours if the women are chaste? The disbanding of the Vestial Virgins and the extinguishing of the sacred fire is a prominent feature in the fall of Romanum pietas deorum. Unless women means something else.

So that's the only line that bothers you?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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RuneLogIX
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@dom Probably

Posted by: @tiger

There were a great number of deities honored.

Yeah you would almost think there was a Pantheon devoted to pantheist deities. This ingenious commentary is such an incredible epiphany, of such nuance and incredible depth, I would think you should have the BBC hire you to explain to the public that the BBC is the British Broadcast Corporation. I am grateful that someone of such profound insight could explain such a fact to a pantheist on a pantheist forum. Really incredible stuff. And your analysis is definitely more coherent than Mary Beard's 20 hour or so commentary on the topic. Presumably you have more teeth too.

@dom We know you have reading comprehension issues but really try to elicit a non binary response if you want a discussion to enfold because I am not going to repeat myself.

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @runelogix

 

@dom We know you have reading comprehension issues but really try to elicit a non binary response if you want a discussion to enfold because I am not going to repeat myself.

There's a lot of sections in Chapter 3 that would give any SJW a lot to decry but you're not bothered about those sections because somehow now you're an ultra-feminist or something?  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @runelogix

.

@dom We know you have reading comprehension issues but really try to elicit a non binary response if you want a discussion to enfold because I am not going to repeat myself.

Who is the 'we'?  A reminder of who you are unless you've had radical therapy since a year ago;

 

On page 3 of this thread here;  

Do Communists, Anarchists and Leftists ‘fear money’? – Thelema – LAShTAL.COM Forum 

our friend Runelogix (who hates 'binary responses')  had stated (as documented by me in my post @

The people of a nation on a whole are children and if they are not cared for, nurtured, and cared for to behave in beneficial ways you have the exact kind of dysfunction you see among a large percentage of black Americans: complete anti-social breakdown and an inevitable mass incarceration for societies protection from out of control people. The last thing these people need is more fentanyl. The people without discipline are no better than slaves.

In the subsequent post I asked "Why single out 'the black Americans' in your argument as oppose to white or any other colour?" and he answered; "  Because statistics lives matter."

 

As Ignant said on the same page;  (I think we now need to amend his summation and add  "ultra-feminist" to the following list) ; 

 

   

So far in just this thread, @runelogix is a Thelemic fundamentalist, Trump-supporter, Gorean warrior, homophobe, and hater of drug users, (and i'm sure i've left stuff out), who thinks self-described "superfascist" Evola was a pinko softy, and "liked men too" despite his (Evola's) virulent homophobia.

And is either a big fan of gay Nazi Ernst Rohm, or of other Nazis killing gay Nazis like Ernst Rohm, or, perhaps, both.

Clearly a man we should all listen to.

 

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @runelogix

because I am not going to repeat myself.

@dom Alas, he (or she) always does. So, don't be too touchy about his (or her) comments, he (or she) is nothing but a troll. I mean, we all envy him (or her) because of his (or her) achievements in the crypto currencies business (if they are true), but anything else from him (or her) so far was just ridiculous nonsense, though niftily phrased. A pathetic example of a loud-mouthed megalomaniac nothing. Or - as I just said - a niftily phrasing troll. We had quite a few of them over the years.

Just my two cents, as they say.

Love=Law

Lutz


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Shiva
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Just my two cents

Congratulations!  For only two cents you have just ignited ww4 (ww3 is now online and in the streets worldwide). But, please, before the end, can you tell me why crypto-current-cy has any value (other than a few guys/gals at the bottom/top of the pyramid  agreed it was so ... then the followers ran in up like a manic stock market scramble)?


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @shiva

can you tell me why crypto-current-cy has any value

Sorry, no, I can't, but it feels like we (old people) missed something. Maybe not. Probably not.

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Maybe not. Probably not.

All non-value pyramid schemes work really well for the founders and the early followers. The tail-end followers pay all the bills for those who are sitting higher on the pyramid. By doing so, they lose their investment. The trick is to know when "early" becomes "too late."

On the other hand, with the US Natl Debt looking toward 30 trillion, I believe it is all crytpo-casho now ... except for those ancient coin things that are made from gold or silver.


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @shiva

All non-value pyramid schemes work really well for the founders and the early followers. The tail-end followers pay all the bills for those who are sitting higher on the pyramid. By doing so, they lose their investment. The trick is to know when "early" becomes "too late."

Yep, what looked like a real alternative in the monetary sector has become (logically in the end) just one more toy for the rich to get richer. A few exceptions allowed. Whoever still thinks of it as as "free and independent currency" is just foolish. It might break up "regular" currencies but it won't break up the money hierarchy.

For us regular folks it is probably way too late.

Love=Law

Lutz


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Shiva
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

For us regular folks it is probably way too late.

But we are not regular, except in our devotions. Says so in Liber AL, writ by ol' Fakey, who could not keep dates straight. That reminds me of a loose end.

In one of the introductory Libers, it is written that the Probationer, et al, must write his Record plainly, so that someone else can read it (no secret codes).

Then, here we are, a hundred years later, and reading the original manuscripts of yestercentury we find discrepancies, irregularities, and secret codes!

So much for Record writ that someone can understand.

Anyway, we are the boys of LAShTAL U.
Gamblin' with dollars we eschew.
We don't smoke and we don't chew.
And we don't go with girls that do.

 


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wellreadwellbred
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Compatibility between Christianity and Aleister Crowley's Thelema:

(JC & AC both having a Messiah complex:)

 

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

(Source: The Bible, John 14:6)

"... there is no other way into the Supernal Mystery but through her [= BABALON ], and the Beast on which she rideth ...". 

(Source: The Vision and the Voice [= the second most important book of A.C.'s Thelema, according to him in chapter 66 of his book Confessions] "The Cry of the 3rd Aethyr"). - - - https://www.tarrdaniel.com/documents/Thelemagick/publication/english/Liber_CCCCXVIII.html )

 

( "... the Beast whereon she [ = Babalon ] rideth is the Lord of the City of the Pyramids, that I beheld in the fourteenth Aethyr." ( Source: The Vision and the Voice, "The Cry of the 12th Aethyr". ) )

 

"... In The Vision and the Voice (16th Aethyr), Crowley wrote, "This is Babalon, the true mistress of the Beast; of Her all mistresses on lower planes are but avatars." Although Crowley often wrote that Babalon and the Scarlet Woman are one, there are also many instances where the Scarlet Woman is seen more as a representative or physical manifestation of the universal feminine principle.

We the find in the 1996 popular edition of The Law is for All (as edited by Hymenaeus Beta based upon the final Wilkinson manuscript). "It is necessary to say here that The Beast appears to be a definite individual; to wit, the man Aleister Crowley. But the Scarlet Woman is an officer replaceable as need arises. Thus to this pesent date of writing [...], there have been several holders of the title."

( Source: "Bacground to Thelema [...] Babalon - The Scarlet Woman [...] Aspects of Babalon[.] Babalon although a very complex figure, has three essential aspects within Thelemic literature: * The Gateway to the City of the Pyramids (the mystical home of those adepts who hace crossed the Abyss) * The Office of the Scarlet Woman * The Great Mother [...] The Office of the Scarlet Woman" - - - http://www.tomegatherion.co.uk/thelema.htm )

 

"... this is a mystery utterly beyond thine understanding. For Wisdom is the Man, and Understanding the Woman, and not until thou hast perfectly understood canst thou begin to be wise.” 

( Source: The Vision and the Voice, 12th Aethyr - - - - https://www.tarrdaniel.com/documents/Thelemagick/publication/english/Liber_CCCCXVIII.html )


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David Dom Lemieux
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Some of us view the return of Christ or Christian principles as a part of the oncoming Aron of Maat.  What about Christ's self sacrifice (allowing Roman soldiers to brutalize him and so on) and the turning of the other cheek?

"I do not wish to argue that the doctrines of Jesus, they and they alone, have degraded the world to its present condition. I take it that Christianity is not only the cause but the symptom of slavery. There were slaves in Rome, of course, even under the republic. But it was only through Paul that the slime found tongue, and uttered its agony and blasphemy. Now, through the steady growth of altruism pari-passu with the Gospel that advocates it, the world is come to such a pass that the canaille is throned."
—Aleister Crowley

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

What about Christ's self sacrifice (allowing Roman soldiers to brutalize him and so on) ...

Yes, what about it? We all know the story, and what aspect do you wish us to see?

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

... and the turning of the other cheek?

Passive resistance. Gimme your best shot. I will not resist.

That stuff? I think it depends on the circumstances, but it's hard to think about just standing there while he/they/she kills, or strikes, one's self.

Also, please compare turning the other cheek to Jesus wailing on the Moneylenders in the Temple.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

it was only through Paul

I have heard rumors that Saul/Paul, who walked the Road to Damascus, was responsible for laying the foundations of the Western Osirian Conspiracy. We all were mostly born into that illusionary hypocrisy, and then we discovered Horus.

"All of these were men. Their deification is the result of mythopoeia ("myth-making"). -AC


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

What about Christ's self sacrifice (allowing Roman soldiers to brutalize him and so on) ...

Yes, what about it? We all know the story, and what aspect do you wish us to see?

 

Well what would the last 2000 years have been like without this?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

what would the last 2000 years have been like without this?

I dunno, but the Church established western civilization. Constantine, who was (more or less) the top alpha dog in western civilization, had the Bishops get together and devise a coherent system that unified diverse concepts: Christians, Mithrasers, Pagans, etc.  So they came up with this long story based on the Olde Hebrew Writ, and amplified by the Newe Roman Reports as assembled by our hero, Saul/Paul.

This new system went on to evangelize the western world, later spreading into North and South America. The evangelizing included killing indigenous people, stealing gold, inquisiting  folks by torture, burning of witches and political enemies, and accepting bribes (indulgences) in order to "keep infractors from earning bad karma."

I suppose, if it were in the cosmic deck to have an Osirian era, they could have used Egypt, or Dionysus, or Mithras. The result would be the same ... a strong centralized gov (based on religion).

Now this all gets complicated by the fact that the Chinese were on their own track, which did not include Jesus or Mithras figures. From 0 AD to 1912, or so, they usually had a strong central gov based on who had the most effective army. The Great Emperor Chin (China is his land) defeated everyone and united the Waring states of "The Middle Land." Then he started building The Great Wall, which both the mongols and the Manchurians got around in later times. But they had no Christ figure. Some adopted Buddhism from evangalistic Buddhists.

The Tibetans insist that part (maybe all) of the practice is to be completely present in the here-now. Questions relating to "what if" or "would have been" are of no consideration.

You spoke of "turning the other cheek" and asked where we would be now without this?"

"Turning the cheek" was uttered ... and everybody, especially the Church, went on making sure their victims turned that cheek with chains, ropes, fire, and steel.

Which is exactly where we (still) are, now.


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David Dom Lemieux
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@shiva so the last Christian died on the cross?  Yeah Christ's teachings have generally been ignored especially by governments and a lot of Church officials who were basically more like Al Capone or Hitler than Christ.  To get a sense of what the Inquisition were like look at the Taliban.  They probably do a lot of praying  and tell themselves that they are doing God's work.  

The irony is the Devil's spawn Polytheistic Pagan Romans were tolerant of indigenous cultures and they allowed them to flourish as long as they paid homage to Rome.....otherwise they decimated them.

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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Saint 666 who claimed Aiwass, his HGA, was Satan, the Devil;
suggested liberating sexual energy for purposes other than the missionary position of procreation with experimentation.
If at first you don’t succeed try try again.
And showed the rabble that they could lift their chains from the diabolical dominion of the church.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

look at the Taliban. 

Yeah, I just did. Everyone's getting a good look in the here-now.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

the Devil's spawn

"The devil does not exist." -AC

Posted by: @tiger

lift their chains from the diabolical dominion of the church.

It's funny [?] how the so-called Church varied a bit in its approach to enforcing the simple recommendations of the original "Christian."

 


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wellreadwellbred
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[Bold added by me for the sake of emphasis:]
 
David Dom Lemieux:
 
"... this is what John the Baptist said about Fire and Christ;
 
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.  MATHEW 3:11""
 
 
AC recommended The Pistis Sophia as "An admirable introduction to the study of Gnosticism." (Source: A ∴ A ∴ CURRICULUM - - - http://www.the-equinox.org/vol3/eqv3n1/eq0301018.htm )

An English translation published in 1896, of The Pistis Sophia, was the first major gnostic text available to English-speaking readers.

 

Quotes from "Pistis Sophia Publication date 1896 [...] Language English": ( Sources https://archive.org/details/pistissophia003016mbp - - - https://ia600200.us.archive.org/11/items/pistissophiagnos00mead/pistissophiagnos00mead.pdf ): 

[Page 352:] "John the Baptist prophesied concerning me, saying, 'I indeed baptise you with water unto repentance and the remission of your sins. But he who cometh after me, is before me, whose fan is in his hand, and he shall purge his floor ; the chaff he shall burn with fire unquenchable, but the wheat he shall gather into his garner.' The power which was in John, [thus] prophesied concerning me, knowing that I should bring the mysteries into the world, to cleanse the sins of those sinners who should believe in me, and give ear unto me, that I might transform them into pure light and bring them unto the light."

[Page 375:] "The fire, the water, [...] are for cleansing all the sins of the world ; ..."

[page 376:] "'I am come to cast fire on the earth'; that is to say, I am come to purify the sins of the whole world with fire."

 

Parallels to the above quotes from the first English translation of Pistis Sophia published in 1896, found within a book which AC supposedly wrote in 1904, The Book of the Law:

[First chapter:] "41. The word of Sin is Restriction. ..."

[Third and last chapter:] 62. To Me do ye reverence! to me come ye through tribulation of ordeal[*], which is bliss. [...]

63. The fool readeth this Book of the Law, and its comment; & he understandeth it not.

64. Let him come through the first ordeal[*], & it will be to him as silver.

65. Through the second, gold.

66. Through the third, stones of precious water.

67. Through the fourth, ultimate sparks of the intimate fire."

( [*] "ORDEAL IS ANOTHER WORD FOR TRIAL [...] When ordeal entered English, it referred to a primitive form of trial to determine guilt or innocence by subjecting the accused person to fire, poison, or other serious danger, the result being regarded as a divine or preternatural judgment." 

(Source: https://www.thesaurus.com/e/synonym-of-the-day/ordeal-2021-05-06/ ))

 

( In an English translation published in 1851, of Jules Michelet's book History of France from the Earliest Period to the Present Time, Volum 1, it is stated that "In fact, the Gnostic Baptism was with fire." 

(Source of quote: https://books.google.no/books?id=ia0fAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA375&lpg=PA375&dq=%22Gnostic+baptism+was+with+fire%22&source=bl&ots=NAGVfS9jtX&sig=ACfU3U3rV6JY4PxFYqQXWYV11shh9kDgIw&hl=no&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiRzourmKb3AhWQuYsKHQt7CzgQ6AF6BAgGEAM#v=onepage&q=%22Gnostic%20baptism%20was%20with%20fire%22&f=false ) )

 

ignant666:

"This "baptism with fire" in Matthew is a reference to Noah in Genesis [...] the Ark one [Noah story]".

 

The Biblical judgment[-s], or trial[-s] or ordeal[-s] by water/fire parallels or corresponds with the Biblical baptism[-s] with water/fire. 

The flood of Noah relates to water baptism in the same way that the coming fiery destruction of the creation relates to baptism with the Spirit. It is the baptism with fire that burns up our impurities (chaff, dead trees, dross, etc.), an idea that was prefigured in the purging of the world during the flood of Noah.

 

Within the gnostic text Pistis Sophia first published in English in 1896, and recommende by Aleister Crowley "An admirable introduction to the study of Gnosticism.", Jesus states that "The fire, the water, [...] are for cleansing all the sins of the world ; ...".

"The word of Sin is Restriction.", according to AC's The Book of the Law. The "god" communicating in its third and last chapter identifies itself as [verse 17:]"the strength, force, vigour, of" any one reading it. And this "god" also states that [verse 62:] "To Me do ye reverence! to me come ye through tribulation of ordeal, which is bliss."

This "god" also states [verse 66 and 67] that "this Book of the Law", shall be like water, to one coming through a penultimate third ordeal, and like fire to one coming through a final fourth ordeal. 

That is, AC's The Book of the Law's message that "The word of Sin is Restriction", and that it to any one (fully) coming to one's "strength, force, vigour" by coming through (all of) some certain ordeals, shall be like water to the one coming through a penultimate third ordeal, and shall be like fire to the one coming through a final fourth ordeal, corresponds to Jesus' message — in the gnostic text Pistis Sophia recommende by AC — that the fire and the water "... are for cleansing all the sins of the world ...", and that "'I am come to cast fire on the earth'; that is to say, I am come to purify the sins of the whole world with fire."


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gurugeorge
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Hey, has anyone else ever thought that Christian baptism was originally a near-drowning, in order to provoke a NDE?  They were real mensches in those days after all, even the women.

They probably just pussified it over time, as the religion gained prestige and patricians started packing their second sons off to monasteries to get them out of the way.


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wellreadwellbred
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Katrice:

"Crowley's Biblical influence is pretty obvious, it shows in a lot of his work.  Part of it is his rebelling against his upbringing, part of it is taking new ideas and using old imagery for them. 

But on the other side, there is a disturbing number of Thelemites whose approach to Thelema is more like Christianity with a facelift. They never left their old beliefs, they just dressed them up in new imagery. AL is their Bible, to be taken literally and never questioned or re-interpreted, Crowley is their Jesus and they're waiting for their Second Coming and Apocalypse, and they act like the Christians in Jack Chick tracts only with Thelemic terminology.  They mistrust personal revelatory experiences unless those experiences exactly parrot the Holy Books, they dismiss other peoples' magickal results as either delusional or the work of sinister entities."

( Source: Various II:76 Cipher solutions… – Page 28 – Thelema – LAShTAL.COM Forum )

 

Can it also be the case that some Satanists' approach to Satanism is more like Christianity with a facelift?


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katrice
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Can it also be the case that some Satanists' approach to Satanism is more like Christianity with a facelift?

Indeed so. Whether they be theistic Satanists or more Laveyan-influenced materialistic Satanists, by "inverting" Christianity as a form of perceived rebellion against it, they still bind themselves to what they claim to oppose and base their approach on it. On a personal level, such approach can serve as a tool of liberation, akin to the panchamakara ritual in Tantra, but such things only have usefulness as such when what is transgressed against has a genuine hold on the practitioner in some way. Once that hold is overcome, it ceases to have practical usefulness. On a wider level beyond the individual, aside from as a memetic tool, one has to ask what usefulness such transgression would have beyond empty rebellion for its own sake or as an aesthetic. 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Topic starter  
Posted by: @gurugeorge

Hey, has anyone else ever thought that Christian baptism was originally a near-drowning, in order to provoke a NDE?  They were real mensches in those days after all, even the women.

They probably just pussified it over time, as the religion gained prestige and patricians started packing their second sons off to monasteries to get them out of the way.

Similar to the pranayama exercises espoused by Crowley, yes maybe.

Posted by: @katrice

Indeed so. Whether they be theistic Satanists or more Laveyan-influenced materialistic Satanists, by "inverting" Christianity as a form of perceived rebellion against it, they still bind themselves to what they claim to oppose and base their approach on it. ............

The LaVeyan cursing of an enemy is, ironically, for the weak, it doesn't solve the dumb trajectory and it doesn't exorcise anger.   They allowed Boyd Rice to be head of the COS... check it out 30 minutes in ;  8-8-88 Rally plus Interviews - YouTube    I recommend his  Iconclast documentary bio.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux
The LaVeyan cursing of an enemy is, ironically, for the weak, it doesn't solve the dumb trajectory and it doesn't exorcise anger.    

I agree.

They allowed Boyd Rice to be head of the COS... 

I've never been a fan of Rice as a person, and it's never easy to tell when he's trolling or being sincere. As for the COS, some interesting stuff came out of there, they defined the Immanent branch of the Path, and they definitely have had an impact, even if most of LaVey's ideas came from other sources, but they seem to have gone more and more downhill as time went on.  

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice

I've never been a fan of Rice as a person, and it's never easy to tell when he's trolling or being sincere. As for the COS, some interesting stuff came out of there, they defined the Immanent branch of the Path, and they definitely have had an impact, even if most of LaVey's ideas came from other sources, but they seem to have gone more and more downhill as time went on.  

 

Unless you watch his ICONACLAST documentary you will only know about Rice from knee-jerk sources.  He is essentially a Dadaist prankster which I guess is your version of what a 'troll' is.  This is well before the modern age of the YouTube prank and Jackass which emerged out of California's skateboard culture. I don't know what his dad did but he had a lot of biker friends.  Rice is from Orange Grove California, he was a glam rock teenager in the very exclusive Biggenheimer's English Disco in L.A.. He was beaten up due to wearing his Gary Glitter boots and having long blue hair in L.A. in the early 70s.  As a schoolboy he made a giant real sized  crucifix in an art class and would walk with it through the streets of California.

He was in a Dadaist organisation before punk and was involved in Situationist events, he said he would ask Cocteau for advice every night (via dreams) at bedtime. He started to make noise music before the so called industrial music pioneers and was taken seriously by journalists in The Times or one of those established papers.  He was the first artist to be signed to Mute Records.  He is also a visual artist but part of his Dadaist-Situationism is his public pranking.  As a teenager he was taken away by the CIA because he handed President Ford's wife a pig's head at a public invent.

He visited Manson every day in prison for over a year I believe,  he was friends with Biggenheimer, Kim Fowley, Nancy Sinatra, Orridge, Tiny Tim, Cash Flag, Adam Partrey and of course LaVey and the latter's daughter. LaVey made him head of the COS. I think he's hilarious but I think all button-pushers are hilarious.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

he was taken away by the CIA because he handed President Ford's wife a pig's head at a public invent.

Why would the CIA be involved? More likely Secret Service. But it doesn't matter who took him away. From your amazing bio, the problem is that he was then released.

I remain open to testimony that redeems the essence of this weird person, but while waiting [always waiting] for that I move to put Mr Rice on The List.

What List?

The one that starts with Edwin Arthwaite, Grady McM, and RTC ... The Clowns of the New Aeon Circus. An amusing List, to be sure - but where in their legends does it explain how they did the work?

No Workee - No Tickee - No Certificatee ...

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva

The one that starts with Edwin Arthwaite, Grady McM, and RTC ... The Clowns of the New Aeon Circus. An amusing List, to be sure - but where in their legends does it explain how they did the work?

No Workee - No Tickee - No Certificatee ...

Are you adding Lavey to that list or Jeff Koons - Wikipedia  ? Would you ask fort their asana credentials?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux 

Unless you watch his ICONACLAST documentary you will only know about Rice from knee-jerk sources.  He is essentially a Dadaist prankster which I guess is your version of what a 'troll' is.  This is well before the modern age of the YouTube prank and Jackass which emerged out of California's skateboard culture.  

You seem to believe that I do not know these things, that I haven't read and watched interviews with him, and that I don't know any genuine fans of Rice. I am aware of his pranking, and do respect his work there, as I respect his music and its influence.  I have nothing against pranking. The Dadaists, the Situationists, Bey's Poetic Terrorism, the Discordians' Operation Mindfuck, the Cacophony Society, the DKMU, etc.  Trolling I tend to see as more malicious, more intended to just get off on upsetting and hurting people and leaving them that way, and about nothing else.  And in Rice's case, I just find it difficult to determine where the trolling ends and the real fash begins in his case.  I just feel like there are times when he comes off as a little too sincere there, like the act becomes less of an act.

 

 he was friends with Biggenheimer, Kim Fowley, Nancy Sinatra, Orridge, Tiny Tim, Cash Flag, Adam Partrey and of course LaVey and the latter's daughter.

and Tracy Twyman too. 


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ignant666
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"Nazi jokes" are just that, Nazi jokes.

Fuck Boyd Rice, and, while we're at it, WTF does Jeff Koons, last a fashionable artist maybe 20 years ago, have to do with literally anything?

As to Shiva's list, surely there cannot be folks who regard Howard "Anton Szandor Lavey" Levey as an example of spiritual attainment? Anyone with even superficial familiarity with his (largely plagiarized) "works" would know he would have regarded this notion with derision and contempt.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice
 
tra, Orridge, Tiny Tim, Cash Flag, Adam Partrey and of course LaVey and the latter's daughter.

and Tracy Twyman too. 

Add Captain Beefheart to that list also.  I can understand your troll statement.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Are you adding Lavey to that list ...

No, but you just did. I concur.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

or Jeff Koons - Wikipedia  ?

I dunno about this person.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Would you ask fort their asana credentials?

This would not be necessary. As I thought I made it clear, or at least fuzzy but viewable, one's "grade" is visible in the auric field. No, it doesn't flash 2=9 or 8=3, but the imprints of the real initiations leave their mark. Nobody gets these (marks) without doing the work.


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katrice
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Posted by: @ignant666

As to Shiva's list, surely there cannot be folks who regard Howard "Anton Szandor Lavey" Levey as an example of spiritual attainment? Anyone with even superficial familiarity with his (largely plagiarized) "works" would know he would have regarded this notion with derision and contempt.

He was influential, though more as a showman and as someone who introduced a few ideas in to the larger community.  Spiritual attainment?  No, and as you mention he wasn't in to that. A sorcerer in his own right though? To an extent,but not nearly as much as he may have wanted people to believe.  Hence his being the one who defined and popularized what is now known as the Immanent branch of the LHP. 

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

  I can understand your troll statement.  

Thank you.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @ignant666

"Nazi jokes" are just that, Nazi jokes.

Fuck Boyd Rice, and, while we're at it, WTF does Jeff Koons, last a fashionable artist maybe 20 years ago, have to do with literally anything?

As to Shiva's list, surely there cannot be folks who regard Howard "Anton Szandor Lavey" Levey as an example of spiritual attainment? Anyone with even superficial familiarity with his (largely plagiarized) "works" would know he would have regarded this notion with derision and contempt.

Oh right so you're a good judge of someone's measure of  'spiritual attainment'?  Jeff Koons and Rice have both had exhibitions in galleries etc.  They are both contemporary artists but you only get your info from knee-jerk Google sources whereas I watch documentaries over an hour long. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

I watch documentaries over an hour long. 

Truly impressive. I am humbled. Over a hour long? The mind boggles.

The talentless Koons, and the Nazi imbecile Rice, remain non-entities. FYI, i do not need to google to know who either moron is.

How does Koons even come into this conversation? Did he mention that he meditated once in one of these "documentaries over an hour long", or something?


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

a good judge of someone's measure of  'spiritual attainment'?  Jeff Koons and Rice have both had exhibitions in galleries etc.

Surely, galleries are not an indicator of spiritual attainment? Does etc also signify the "attainment."

I am reminded of when U.G. went to visit Ramana Maharshi. UG asked, "Is there such a thing as enlightenment?"

image

"Yes, there is," Ramana replied.

image

UG asked, "Are there stages?"

"No," Ramana said. "Either you are there, or you are not. There are no stages."

Oh, crap on a shingle made from the leaves of The Tree of Life!  There goes the entire grading-degree system ... reduced to Yes or No.

So an Adept is not "half-enlightened," but mere half-way up the path of preparation.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

I watch documentaries over an hour long. 

I believe you are talking to Ignant. I sense you have just slipped a notch or two in your spiritual grading system - No Wait! The grades don't count. Anyway, I can hardly wait to see what Ignant thinks of you wasting hours of time that could be spent doing the work.

Posted by: @ignant666

Truly impressive. I am humbled. Over a hour long? The mind boggles.

Posted by: @ignant666

The talentless Koons, and the Nazi imbecile Rice, remain non-entities. FYI, i do not need to google to know who either moron is.

Well, that just about sums it up.

 


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