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Tiger
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Free from dependence on spooky conjectures and rationalizations of desire, of craving, protection, attachment, and a nostalgia to be herded into paradise; Crowley’s asceticism is more of a stoic kind; rather than an unwholesome preoccupation of self mortification appropriate to a sinner. Man man is not gods slave that must obey commandments imposed by an external authority.

The Beast came to free Stars compelled to assume unnatural and distorted forms, from the system of oppressing and stultifying freedom of expression of the past Aeon.

His system in the New Aeon takes responsibility, attaining to self-realization and self-actualization. by one's own efforts, without abandoning that responsibility to god or dependent on the Yeshu ben Pantera event.

The play is not just once upon a paradisiacal time, or the number of forms that made it on to Noah's ark; but the play of any of a multitude of states of being including a human, any kind of animal and several types of supernatural beings is conditioned by the action of consciousness ; take responsibility for it.

Crowley wrought a magickal willed system of evolutionary deification of ones very utmost self with emphasis on mindfulness and spiritual practices as a science rather than on the sacraments; not a petition but a charge and of individual spiritual exertion.

"the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world." AL. II. 2
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." --AL. I. 40
"thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that, and no other shall say nay." --AL. I. 42-3
"Every man and every woman is a star." --AL. I. 3
There is no god but man.
Man has the right to live by his own law--
to live in the way that he wills to do:
to die when and how he will.
to move as he will on the face of the earth.
Man has the right to think what he will:
Man has the right to love as he will:--
"take your fill and will of love as ye will,
when, where, and with whom ye will." --AL. I. 51
Man has the right to kill those who would thwart these rights.
"the slaves shall serve." --AL. II. 58
"Love is the law, love under will." --AL. I. 57
— Liber LXXVII
https://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib77.htm


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @dom

From what I can gather, Parsons,(although exceptional in thinking  outside of the box with regards to practical chemistry) was an idiot

Although off-topic, I don't think your remark about Parsons is true. There was undoubtedly an innocence to him - for instance, the way he was taken in by Hubbard, or the way he "borrowed" his classified papers to use in support of a job application in Israel, and as a result lost his security clearance. In the late 1980s I spent a lot of time at the Warbug, in London, going through his essays - many of them then unpublished - and a series of letters to Marjorie Cameron, as well as other papers of his preserved there. I thought - and still think - that he was an occultist of great insight.

 


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dom
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Posted by: @michael-staley

he was an occultist of great insight.

But no insight into his own idiocy.

 

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

 

“It's all in the Egg” (as Pam Dawber uttered in a mystic trance).

..or any high school Biology teacher.... minus the 'mystic trance' though. 

 

Posted by: @barbaragreen

. I must have Jesus.

Barbara

 

The more astute in this thread are trying to get you to see that you are Jesus. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @dom

But no insight into his own idiocy.

He's not the only one, is he . . .


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dom
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Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @dom

But no insight into his own idiocy.

He's not the only one, is he . . .

No.... haha.

 

If you have some interesting points on this great occult insight of Parsons you admire I'd love to see it........but in a thread of it's own, not this one; this is about Thelema and Christianity. 

Thanks.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @dom

If you have some interesting points on this great occult insight of Parsons you admire I'd love to see it........but in a thread of it's own, not this one; this is about Thelema and Christianity. 

Thanks.

Yes, I agree with the principle. The trouble is that you have a habit of throwing out these random spittle-flecked denunciations that are difficult not to respond to. Moral: if you want threads to remain on-topic, best to refrain from such projectile vomiting.

Thanks.

 

 

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @dom

But no insight into his own idiocy.

Condescension is the short path to poor ego management.

Posted by: @michael-staley

He's not the only one, is he . . .

Everybody is downhill from dom, and doomed to the asylum.

 

 


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faustian
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It may be a coincidence, or not, but the scribes for both Christianity and Thelema operated within the same 10 block radius. And of course, Jesus grew up in Cairo - the city was called Babylon at the time. Other notable religious movements originating out of Cairo include the Druze as well as Lurianic Kabbalah. 


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wellreadwellbred
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dom: "The more astute in this thread are trying to get you [Barbara Green] to see that you are Jesus. "

Or as AC might have stated it; Being true God and true man, as is said about one Jesus Christ, can also be said about any individual. 

 

Barbara Green:

"I believe in absolute truth, although I also believe that everyone sees it a little differently, because our life experiences are different, as are our thought processes."

Kabbalah is at the very core of the Thelema derived from Aleister Crowley, and was his continual study from 1898 until the end of his life. The tree of life is a diagram used in the mystical tradition of Kabbalah, consisting of 10 nodes (often called sephitrothes) symbolizing different archetypes. One of the nodes on this Tree of Life is named Kether, and is the first outpouring of the Primal Will and the Cosmic Unity. (Source: Paul Clark's book The Hermetic Qabalah.) 

For everything in existence (= the Macrocosm), Kether is according to this Kabbalah the Godhead, the source of all existence, and for any individual human being regarded as the representation in miniature of everything in existence (= the Microcosm), it symbolizes the divine spark which unites us with this source of all existence. (Source: Paul Clark's book The Hermetic Qabalah.) 

The third and last chapter of Aleister Crowley's most important book for his Thelema, The Book of the Law, is understood by him as representing the voice of the already described Kether, and this Kether is understood by Crowley as being "... Unity, [which] is always itself". (The New Comment, II.2.)

So when Crowley in chapter 31 of his self biography The Confessions of Aleister Crowley, states that; "I loved mankind; I wanted everybody to be an enthusiastic aspirant to the absolute.", his use of the expression "enthusiastic aspirant to the absolute", refers to enthustically aspiring to, or seeking for, Kether, the Godhead, the source of all existence.

This aspiration to, or search for, this absolute truth Kether, will of course be done differently by any one particular individual, in agreement with what you Barbara Green wrote:

"I believe in absolute truth, although I also believe that everyone sees it a little differently, because our life experiences are different, as are our thought processes."

Paul Clark's The Hermetic Qabalah, and Tau Malachi's Gnosis of the Cosmic Christ: A Gnostic Christian Kabbalah, are two books about Kabbalah, with many good reviews on amazon.com. The first book is a very reader friendly general introduction to Kabbalah, including some easy to understand information on Aleister Crowley and the Kabbalah. And the other book is a reader friendly introduction to a Gnostic Christian Kabbalah.

Barbara Green:

"I will leave you with one question. Why is Christianity the only creed that is so odious to you? I understand this because the last thing I wanted to be was a Christian, and it was the last thing. I would be dead but for God.

May God bless all of you and draw you to Himself.

With love and regrets,

Barbara"

Aleister Crowley stated that he "... dared nowise to lay claim to have touched the Book of the Law, not with my littlest finger-tip.", and that he received it as a channeled text . (Source: The Equinox of the Gods, Chapter 7 Remarks on the method of receiving Liber Legis [= The Book of the Law], on the Conditions prevailing at the time of the writing, and on certain technical difficulties connected with the Literary form of the Book.)

Said The Book of the Law mentions numerous "crapulous creeds", in its third and last chapter, which Crowley understood as representing the voice of Kether, "... Unity, [which] is always itself". (Source: The New Comment, II.2.) This voice of Kether does also state; "To Me do ye reverence! to me come ye through tribulation of ordeal, which is bliss." (Source: The Book of the Law, Chapter III, verse 62.)

And with respect to Crowley's The Book of the Law and his Thelema, all creeds are crapulous or odious to the degree that they are hindrances, for any enthusiastic aspirant to the absolute, to Kether.


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Tiger
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dom: "The more astute in this thread are trying to get you [Barbara Green] to see that you are Jesus. "

Perhaps there is an undergoing; a Phronesis a Sancta Sophia, giving birth to her Star and her HGA at the moment is communicating to her in the image of Jesus .

The fish hook was replaced by a window.
If the Buddha is hooked into the path as a snag wipe him out.

“ Now this mystery of the letters is done, and I want to go on to the holier place. “
The Book of the Law, Chapter III, 48


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

And with respect to Crowley's The Book of the Law and his Thelema, all creeds are crapulous or odious to the degree that they are hindrances, for any enthusiastic aspirant to the absolute, to Kether.

There are some parts of the third chapter that I dislike intensely, and this is one of them. I have a great amount of respect for several of these "crapulous creeds", for instance Ch'an Buddhism and Taoism. The idea that these are "crapulous creeds" is itself crapulous, to put it mildly.

I haven't gone too deeply into the work of Christian mystics, but what I have read over the years convinces me that there is little if any difference between the "enthusiastic aspirant to the absolute, to Kether" and the Christian mystic seeking "Union with God".

I had that Sam Ardy in the back of my cab once.

 

 

 


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Tiger
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@michael-staley
What ?
Your Ch’an teacher didn’t make you burn the images on the altar in order to warm your self and wipe your ass with scripture to clean yourself ?

What a shock.


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @tiger

Your Ch’an teacher didn’t make you burn the images on the altar in order to warm your self and wipe your ass with scripture to clean yourself ?

Not that I recall, no.


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wellreadwellbred
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MS: "I had that Sam Ardy in the back of my cab once."

Is "I had that Sam Ardy" in the above sentence, slang with a special meaning??

MS: "I have a great amount of respect for several of these "crapulous creeds", for instance Ch'an Buddhism and Taoism. The idea that these are "crapulous creeds" is itself crapulous, to put it mildly."

There is in AC The Book of the Law (II:56.), of course, "[...] All words are sacred and all prophets true; save only that they understand a little; [...]." And as I have stated earlier in this thread "... with respect to Crowley's The Book of the Law and his Thelema, all creeds are crapulous or odious to the degree that they are hindrances, for any enthusiastic aspirant to the absolute, to Kether."

That is, Crowley's The Book of the Law and his Thelema, is something the understanding of which is clearly much dependant on one's own mystical and magical work, and going where one's search leads one, and clearly something which rejects a complete acceptance of any older religious creed (III:54.): "Bahlasti! Ompehda! I spit on your crapulous creeds." But it is also something which is open for availing oneself of elements of older elements which one finds usefull in one's own mystical and magical work, indicated by the quote above from II:56.

 

MS: "... what I have read over the years convinces me that there is little if any difference between the "enthusiastic aspirant to the absolute, to Kether" and the Christian mystic seeking "Union with God"."

There is a widespread strong traditional connection between the older creeds like Christinaty, Judaism and Christianity, and a mistrust and/or hostility against any kind of mystics and/or magicians, and there is not a widespread strong traditional connection between the creed of Thelema derived via Aleister Crowley, and a mistrust and/or hostility against any kind of mystics and/or magicians.


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wellreadwellbred
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Correction: AC's The Book of the LAW and his Thelema "... it is also something which is open for availing oneself of elements of older religious creeds which one finds usefull in one's own mystical and magical work, indicated by the quote above from II:56."


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kidneyhawk
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The Book of the Law contains a variety of "hidden passages" and "hidden words" which can be of interest. 

I DO like how we can carve out:

"All words are sacred and all prophets true; save only that they understand AL..."


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hadgigegenraum
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I have always found the perspective of Class Hoffmann's as found in this essay to be perfect for a pause in discussions such as these..

https://www.parareligion.ch/dplanet/stephen/claas/Burn_Like_a_Fire_in_Cairo.html

on another note-

@faustian Much thanks for your observation that made for a good laugh...why Jesus might well be the the answer to II 76 gee wiz and now might the Resurrection of those infamous threads studded with the holy Coles piles and all manner of displaced wonder....So do tell us more of the sojourn of Jesus growing up in Cairo in such blocks of Babylon you say was called...I thinks you knows who the waiter waz!

93 

HG


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faustian
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@hadgigegenraum according to the Coptic Church, Jesus' Cairo address was where the Abu Serga church now is in Old Cairo - about 20 blocks south of Tahir Square. The name of the waiter was unfortunately not written down. As for St. Mark, who penned the first Gospel, he is buried in West Cairo in the Coptic quarter. So there is a Cairo connection.

As for the II:76 connection, my suspicion is that the Jesus Choronzon moment took place in the same palace with four gates spoken of in another thread.


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dom
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I don't think that Christ was 'against' rich people per se but 'against' those who identify as being rich to bolster their egos as seen here;

 

  Considerably Richer Than You - Harry Enfield and Chums - BBC - YouTube

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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@michael-staley

“ What ?
Your Ch’an teacher didn’t make you burn the images on the altar in order to warm your self and wipe your ass with scripture to clean yourself ?“

“ Not that I recall, no. “

No worries one can always wait to do the ritual and be converted right before the death sentence.


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Jamie J Barter
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Returning back to the OT again, in a letter to William B. Crow dated 11th November 1944 relating to that unusual hybrid the Gnostic Catholic Church, Crowley maintained that it was the task of the O.T.O.

"to restore Christianity to its real status as a solar-phallic religion."

Also, under Crowley's predecessor as Outer Head of that Order, Theodor Reuss, the O.T.O. had the aim of its religious orientation as one of "Gnostic Neo-Christianity" (and despite A.C.'s loud contention that it was the first of the ancient orders of antiquity to accept the Law, was not over-concerned with the promulgation of Thelema which Reuss in the end attempted to relegate and dismiss).

Z Joy


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Tiger
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“ Crowley envisioned the Gnostic Mass as a celebration of the wedding of Scientific truth and Religious Aspiration. The message of the Mass, as a symbolic template of the teaching of the Book of the Law, eschews the irrationality, superstition, and restrictive dogma characterized of previous Revelations. The Mass is designed to lead celebrants to an appreciation of the glorious nature of reality. “

back cover of the book - The Perfect Feast by James and Nancy Wasserman


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dom
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Returning back to the OT again, in a letter to William B. Crow dated 11th November 1944 relating to that unusual hybrid the Gnostic Catholic Church, Crowley maintained that it was the task of the O.T.O.

"to restore Christianity to its real status as a solar-phallic religion."

 

What is a solar-phallic religion?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @dom

What is a solar-phallic religion?

The opposite - or complement - of a lunar-yonic one...

Boom, Boom ?

N Joy


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Tiger
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image
image

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dom
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

What is a solar-phallic religion?

 

You don't know what he was on about here?  

I don't. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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tap in
feel the influence
get some
religion

 

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @tiger

tap in
feel the influence
get some
religion

slip out
feel nothin
get no
emptiness


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

get no
emptiness

Hey Hey Hey....

That's what I say....


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kidneyhawk
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Shiva is Choronzon to Tiger.

But Tiger is Choronzon to Shiva. 

 


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Tiger
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What is a solar-phallic religion?

It is the ancient Mystery of Mysteries
from out of the ageless womb of undifferentiation,
of the thus-come, from which all apparent entities,
distinctions, and dualities arise.
And the Affirmation of the Miracle
of the precious Life,
and the Erection of Liberty
To Exalt a path of Light
Get it
On !

Pour every drop
in the rapture dissolution !


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Shiva is Choronzon to Tiger.

But Tiger is Choronzon to Shiva.

Superficially, that would be correct. However, we see eye to eye, and the apparent duality is really nothing.


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @dom
 
What is a solar-phallic religion?
 
You don't know what he was on about here?  I don't. 

You've read Confessions (and presumably at least some of his other work) hundreds of times and have no idea at all? 

The O.T.O. under Reuss (and Crowley) recognized the Sun as the Creator and source of all Life here on Earth, and that the Phallus as "vice-regent" was a symbol representative of this - as follows from A.C.'s New Comment to The Book of the Law 3,22:

Our religion therefore, for the People, is the Cult of the Sun, who is our particular star of the Body of Nuit, from whom, in the strictest scientific sense, come this earth, a chilled spark of Him, and all our Light and Life. His vice-regent and representative in the animal kingdom is His cognate symbol the Phallus, representing Love and Liberty. Ra-Hoor-Khuit, like all true Gods, is therefore a Solar-Phallic deity. But we regard Him as He is in truth, eternal; the Solar-Phallic deities of the old Aeon, such as Osiris, “Christ”, Hiram, Adonis, Hercules, &c., were supposed, through our ignorance of the Cosmos, to 'die and rise again'. ...

From De Arte Magica you'd find:

The Phallus is the physiological basis of the Oversoul. It is the sperm that contains the Pneuma, the Holy Logos which, when in Man, has to be brought back to the Pleroma.

and from Liber C:

[M]an is the guardian of the Life of God; woman but a temporary expedient; a shrine indeed for the God, but not the God. 

Got an idea of what he was "on about" yet (that is if you didn't disingenuously know already!)? 

Some might find some aspects of his viewpoint somewhat contentious, of course... but it would fit in perfectly well with the particularly male-centric outlook of Christianity itself.

N Joy


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dom
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

s the Cult of the Sun, who is our particular star of the Body of Nuit, from whom, in the strictest scientific sense, come this earth, a chilled spark of Him, and all our Light and Life. His vice-regent and representative in the animal kingdom is His cognate symbol the Phallus, representing Love and Liberty. Ra-Hoor-Khuit, like all true Gods, is therefore a Solar-Phallic deity. But we regard Him as He is in truth, eternal; the Solar-Phallic deities of the old Aeon, such as Osiris, “Christ”, Hiram, Adonis, Hercules, &c., were supposed, through our ignorance of the Cosmos, to 'die and rise again'. ...

 

What about Stone Age humans for example and their religion?   Did it disregard The Sun as a mighty source of creation?

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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It hearkens to a time when women adored the rising in the morning
and of its labour during the day
and after its labour adored the fact that it set and stopped talking

in order for it to rise again.


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @dom

What about Stone Age humans for example and their religion?   

The Stone Age would have been in pre-Osirian, non-phallically oriented, more matriarchal times (= Isian aeon).

Posted by: @dom

Did it disregard The Sun as a mighty source of creation?

I don't see why it should; it would still have been venerated as the source of Light (if not Life).  But it wouldn't have been sufficiently knowledgeable about the mysteries of (pro)creation at the time to have regarded the Phallus as its corresponding equivalent in this context as well.

N Joy


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dom
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

I don't see why it should; it would still have been venerated as the source of Light (if not Life).  But it wouldn't have been sufficiently knowledgeable about the mysteries of (pro)creation at the time to have regarded the Phallus as its corresponding equivalent in this context as well.

N Joy

That would've been related to the emergence of the first farming methods.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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Vision
Mighty Potnia in her workings with the
king of the underworld at Amnisos in the cave of Eileithyia,
who’s Mysteries to elevate man above the human sphere into the divine,
increased the cyclical life of the earth during wintering,
resurrecting the force and agency which
caused the fruits of the earth which die in winter
and rise again in spring,
flowing from generation to generation;
conjuring Attis and Eleutherios, Bakkheia,
liberating the blossoming,
Ilithyia Bringer of the annual birth
possessed and empowered, crowned and conquering
an ecstatic dance
the return of Dumuzid
antediluvian king of the city of Bad-tibira and city of Uruk
coming forth
Min and Pan.


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @dom

That would've been related to the emergence of the first farming methods.  

Quite possibly so.  In terms of early farmers paying attention to the habits of their rutting animals, you mean?  But this would all have been a very long while before anyone formulated anything like a solar-phallic based - or even patriarchal - religion.

N Joy


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dom
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Posted by: @pertinax
 

I will leave you with one question. Why is Christianity the only creed that is so odious to you? I understand this because the last thing I wanted to be was a Christian, and it was the last thing. I would be dead but for God.

I don't, I practice elements of Christianity, the Psalms and the Gospels in particular I go back to regularly, it's not odious at all. I am on good terms with the local parish priest and go to mass from time to time. Some elements of Christendom I find overly repressive but these are to me non-essentials, but those are little to do with the central message which I am wholly on board with, nor the spiritual reality of it, which I wouldn't dream of forcing on others. Others here have also been at pains to demonstrate that it isn't Christianity per-se that they hate.

If I'm not mistaken Crowley claimed that the Christian mass was a black magic ritual.  It may have been somewhere in MITAP but the gist of it was probably some inadvertent reference to the principles in AL 1:11 and 2:5.  Nevertheless what do you make of the passages from AL with regards to your attendance of Christian mass?

 

1:11. These are fools that men adore; both their Gods & their men are fools.

 

2:5. Behold! the rituals of the old time are black. Let the evil ones be cast away; let the good ones be purged by the prophet! Then shall this Knowledge go aright.

Posted by: @ignant666

. Hare Krishna turned lots of punk/skinhead kids i knew from violent hoodlums to reasonably solid citizens.

I hope that Hare Krsna guy who knifed his superior because he thought he was the Antichrist was not an ex-skinhead,  I googled it to no avail but there are Hare Krsna murder-stories knocking about the internet.  WTF?  Excuse me if I say Only in America (could a Hare Krsna member become a murderous maniac).  

Posted by: @jamiejbarter
Quite possibly so.  In terms of early farmers paying attention to the habits of their rutting animals, you mean?  But this would all have been a very long while before anyone formulated anything like a solar-phallic based - or even patriarchal - religion.

N Joy

I was thinking more of the blooming fauna and the Summer and Spring.

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Posted by: @dom

Behold! the rituals of the old time are black.

I think this refers to the Golden Dawn at least as much as the Catholic Church.

Posted by: @dom

Only in America (could a Hare Krsna member become a murderous maniac).

Yes, there are also Hare Krishna child-sex-abuse stories.

There have been a few schisms in the HK movement after the criminal behavior of the main US leaders was exposed. Most of the LES punk/skin kids i know who stuck with it (and who are thus kind of elders now) are in one of the the "Protestant" versions.


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Tiger
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“ THE ORIFLAMME is the Official Organ of the O.T.O. , the secret Order to which Aleister Crowley bequeathed all his writings. The “Oriflamme” was traditionally the flag of “St Dionysus” , in reality the Magus DIONYSUS, from whom the Roman-Alexandrines fabricated their “Jesus Christ” . The flag was called Oriflamme because its colors were red of blood and gold of sunlight combined in shot silk. This flag represents the Heraldic Colors of THELEMA, the colors of true Christianity. ”
Magick Without Tears Unexpurgated version being THE ORIFLAMME Vol.VI No.3 - inside cover.


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ignant666
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Is the quoted matter from the lunatic Motta?


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Pertinax
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@dom

Crowley did indeed regard the mass as a Black magick ritual, but then he would, given his whole mode of operating. For what it's worth I spent five years as a member of the OTO, attended Gnostic mass on numerous occasions, even ate the cakes. The first thing I noticed was that it was heavily modelled on the old (pre-Vatican II) Catholic mass, with the addition of symbolic references for the qabalistically literate, and naked ladies and sperm cakes for those insensitive enough to require titillation as an alternative to mystical experience or understanding of the transubstantiation, but then AC came from a protestant cult that rejected that particular dogma so his misapprehension is understandable.

Anyway....while I don't usually expound on the Libers, my personal take...

Posted by: @dom

1:11. These are fools that men adore; both their Gods & their men are fools.

If the worshipper thinks that God and man are separate, and that the mass joins them together, he has not understood the mass. To paraphrase from memory: "With the God and the adorer I am nothing, they see not, they are as upon the earth". The mass, the God eating, is in recognition of what is already there..."Do this, in memory of me", "the kingdom of heaven is within you".

Posted by: @dom

2:5. Behold! the rituals of the old time are black. Let the evil ones be cast away; let the good ones be purged by the prophet! Then shall this Knowledge go aright.

Rituals of death and suffering are indeed black. If we believe suffering to be the point, or focus on that rather than the inner significance of it then the ritual is indeed black, nothing but a death cult that needs to be cast away. 'Purged by the prophet', I interpret as being synonymous with the Buddhist 'right understanding'. 

The world of magick is a mirror, he who see's * is *.


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kidneyhawk
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Didn't Crowley declare something to the effect of "If I'm a black magician, I'm a bloody good one?" 

And either way, for Mr. Thelema to denounce anything as "black" is a laugh and a half.

Is "black" BAD and "white" GOOD? 

Was Crowley a "White Magician?"

My questions are slightly rhetorical....Yellow School and all.

And Crowley the Magus doesn't get entangled in the affairs of the "Demon."  

It would seem that this thread highlights the damage done to young Crowley's psyche by a certain Christian Cult. The grown man, as sophisticated as he became, still squirmed against his childhood abuse and "kicked against the pricks."

And we can't really blame him, can we?

But we don't need to goosestep his neurosis.

I think I have expressed what I regard as my own "Christianity" in several posts here. I put that in quotes as my Neo-Blakean views have nothing in common with the Evangelical outlook. But I'll choose to keep the baby back from the bathwater toss, just the same. 

After all, it's the Aeon of the Child.

And, unless Ye become as a Little Child, Ye shall not see the Kingdom of Heaven.

🙂

 


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Tiger
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@ignant666
“ Is the quoted matter from the lunatic Motta? “

Yes

@kidneyhawk
But we don't need to goosestep his neurosis.

Ah an exposition of his works treated as a neurotic mindset;

over the shift in human consciousness towards the individual star
and the flowering of the Hermetical Science; suppressed by christian conception;
with its practices of Greek and Egyptian magics before the need for the advent of christ;
free of restriction and the stultification and hindrance of a state of mind in sin.

The Magus enters with lovingly sympathy into the sympathies which bind earth and heaven.

Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu has opened the dwelling place of the stars.
Go forth by day to do thy will, upon earth, among the living.

Sheep will be herded
The goat will climb.

Know Thy Self.


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @dom
Posted by: @jamiejbarter
Quite possibly so.  In terms of early farmers paying attention to the habits of their rutting animals, you mean?  But this would all have been a very long while before anyone formulated anything like a solar-phallic based - or even patriarchal - religion.

N Joy

I was thinking more of the blooming fauna and the Summer and Spring.

What blooming fauna, where, and why were they blooming? (I don't quite see how it ties in.)

Posted by: @ignant666
Quoted by: @dom

Behold! the rituals of the old time are black.

I think this refers to the Golden Dawn at least as much as the Catholic Church.

Yes, I agree: They would both be "Old Aeon".

Posted by: @tiger

@ignant666
“ Is the quoted matter from the lunatic Motta? “

Yes.

I wonder why he thought the O.T.O. was a "secret Order" (see quote) when it's meant to hold "semi-public" gatherings to celebrate the Gnostic Mass (under the auspices of its subsidiary, the Gnostic Catholic Church").

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Didn't Crowley declare something to the effect of "If I'm a black magician, I'm a bloody good one?" 

He was a hell of a good one!

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

And either way, for Mr. Thelema to denounce anything as "black" is a laugh and a half.

It appears as if like a tone of slightly disrespectful disdain may possibly have crept in towards the subject whose "Society" we're "Home" here at?!

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Was Crowley a "White Magician?"

Seems like he might have been a bit grey. (like Gandalf!)

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

My questions are slightly rhetorical....Yellow School and all.

Precisely speaking, those of the Yellow School wouldn't trouble themselves to be asking (or answering) questions at all.  Silence, and all (that).

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

But we don't need to goosestep his neurosis.

That's a nice turn of phrase there, particularly if original Kyle.  Kind of - evocative.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

I think I have expressed what I regard as my own "Christianity" in several posts here. ...

I practice elements of Christianity, the Psalms and the Gospels in particular I go back to regularly, it's not odious at all. I am on good terms with the local parish priest and go to mass from time to time.

Spoken (written) as someone who wouldn't be uttering "Apo antos kakadaimonos" at the clergy, as is the form norm amongst some fundamenties (e.g. Mottaites)!

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

But I'll choose to keep the baby back from the bathwater toss, just the same. 

This often can be a useful manoeuvre - just in case...

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

After all, it's the Aeon of the Child.

Though some (e.g. Shiva) have argued we're still in the previous one, waiting for the next to properly come through

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

And, unless Ye become as a Little Child, Ye shall not see the Kingdom of Heaven.

Yes, Ye jolly well won't.  So think Ye all On!)

N Joy


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dom
 dom
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Topic starter  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter
Posted by: @dom
Posted by: @jamiejbarter
Quite possibly so.  In terms of early farmers paying attention to the habits of their rutting animals, you mean?  But this would all have been a very long while before anyone formulated anything like a solar-phallic based - or even patriarchal - religion.

N Joy

I was thinking more of the blooming fauna and the Summer and Spring.

What blooming fauna, where, and why were they blooming? (I don't quite see how it ties in.)

 

Harvest festivals were related to sun worship? 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

I wonder why he thought the O.T.O. was a "secret Order"

The official (while AC was still living) blurb from the OTO was: "The OTO is a serious and secret order ..."

The membership roster (especially the one listing the women members) is supposed to be secret (Secret Membership). The initiation rites contain Oaths with clauses (the "Fine Print") that require secrecy in terms of the rites, the words, the grips, the signs (this all seems rather Masonic, doesn't it?).

That's the secret part. The "open" part depends on the current International and Local policies regarding public glimpsing, advertising, evangelism, and other ways to say, "Here we are. Come in here and learn to obey orders, pay your dues on time, and stay away from social media ... especially those bozos at LAShTAL." I believe that sums it up.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Though some (e.g. Shiva) have argued we're still in the previous one, waiting for the next to properly come through

My assessment, today, and for the next eight hours, is that Osiris (actually Set, because Asar went to the Tuat to wait for us) is still in charge of The Establishment. But individual Horus children are arising and stirring the pot ... everywhere. I believe there are more countries undergoing revolution or civil war or invasion than there are stable countries. I have repeatedly tried to get folks to realize we are in a transition period. Things are presently in a mix-up of ideologies.

Although our present times may be considered "Horus the Child" getting to know his environment, the term "Aeon of the Child" is ridiculous. Horus (Re-Horakhty in normal, non-AC lingo spelling), like any other person or insect, grows up, for the sake of Christ and the 49 Bodhisattvas.

Yeah, OM said, "We are children." Then he expounded on various substitutions for true androgynousism. Guess what? Children grow up. The Aeon of the Child is a term that is so metaphorical that it seems to ignore the facts of the overall aeon.

image

Under authority of the Grand Master, any one of them will do, I proclaim that we are in a Transition Period between the "made-up" models called Oriris and his kid, Horus. In anybody's Life, this corresponds to Adolescence, with is found between puberty and the right to vote, be inducted into warfare,  and smoke legal pot.

Not so childlike any more. Horus the adolescent is a dangerous dude. Try this ...

 

The Open Court

The Mixed Zone - A Transitional Divide

Adolescence

Adolescence is associated with the teenage years, but its physical, psychological, or cultural expressions may begin earlier or end later.

The Open Court is an empty expanse just beyond the Third Pylon that is occupied by two small obelisks. This zone is governed by Isis, Osiris, and Horus - all mixed up and confused with each other. There might be a girlfriend or a boyfriend hanging around in this Court.

1pic1

We have pictures of The Great Temple of Amun at Karnak depicted by architects and artists who attempt to reconstruct an image of what it was likely to have been like. We also have the reconstructed Temple, and it's pretty good as a museum in a third-world country, but it only mimics the majesty of the original edifice.

2 pic txt

You might need to click on this [^] one to read the text

More coming soon in The Hot Zones of ...

 


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Tiger
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@jamiejbarter
I wonder why he thought the O.T.O. was a "secret Order"

Maybe in reference to an
occult organization with an initiatory system,
that has an outer and visible head with the title of CALIPHATE
which practice
Ancient and Primitive Alchemical Rites;
GNOSTIC wisdom carried by the Templars,
with likes of the figura Baffometi with the pentagram of Pythagoras,
and prophesies;
of the arousal and awakening of the coiled splendor.

Conjuring Hermes Trismegistus now.


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