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Christianity and Thelema

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Shiva
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

also presumes something eternal, called "this eternal journey".

Okay. And have you experienced this state where the big picture reveals itself as eternal (or infinite)(or without time constraints)?

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

the death is overcome as it has been passed through...and there is that which remains. 

Thus that is the question or rather the experiment, as we must add science to our religion....and thus, beyond some affidavit, from Christians and or Thelemites,...method or grace or both!

When Siddhartha depated, his last words are said to something along the lines of, " I now pass into nirvana from which nothing remains."

The ultimate idea is to already be in the eternal state when the physical body terminates. In Tibet, they keep these meticulous numbers, and they add up to more than 160,000 people who attained The Rainbow Body - either upon death, or before death ( a living saint who is not Sainta Claus).

I have seen one such Sainta, so I can attest to this concept NOT being just a metaphor. Believe it or don't.

The Rainbow Body, and the Rainbow Body Phenomena, are seemingly not addressed in Thelema or Rome and its offshoots. I accuse everybody of setting false goals, except the chosen. The chosen seem to have a relatively clear picture of the big picture. Everybody else is beating a drum while they recite what they think is true.

The chosen get chosen by getting a call. The call was already pre-dialed into the dna. I see a few people here that have heard the call. After the calling, comes the work. Acid and 'shrooms will give them a glimpse of the big pic, but that doesn't work well unless one does the work, and keeps doing it (on one level or another) forever, or until they Rainbow out and then they are forever. The vehicle still dies at some point.

I have heard (and known directly) of clinical deaths, you know, where people die, their heart stops beating. Then, after some time, usually measured in minutes, they rebound and join the living again. That doesn't count, except maybe for the person (who often gets into denial after a while).

I have yet to know (or hear of) anybody who beat the reaper and really died, longer than that measured in minutes, and came back here (Malkuth). Christianity, et al, have this legend about some guy who did this, but we are asked to believe, to have blind faith (because we say so), in mortal immortality. Give me a break please. The donation plate will now be passed around in advance.

 


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hadgigegenraum
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@shiva

Thank You


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

Christianity, et al, have this legend about some guy who did this, but we are asked to believe, to have blind faith (because we say so), in mortal immortality. Give me a break please. The donation plate will now be passed around in advance.

This is what I find most unpalatable about Barbara's “Testimony.” Unless we're just calling her “The Christian Lady” now.

 

I don't doubt that she was in a place of deep dissatisfaction with her life (experience). I don't doubt that her acceptance of a paradigm in which aspects of this dissatisfaction could be surrendered gave great relief, accounting for an experience which is foundational to her faith. Others have experienced the same event(s) in other religious contexts (I think Ignant spoke of Hare Krishnas who testified to a “reformed life”).

 

To be rescued from a shipwreck is great-but if it simply lands one in a slave plantation, one may question just what is going on.

 

Barbara's account of “The Good” is extraordinarily negative. Let me see if I can sum up the “logic.” God is Good. God creates the world and sets human beings in motion. He says “Hey...this is GOOD...just like ME.” But then the conditions HE created result in the whole “We're not gonna listen to everything you say and we're gonna make our own decisions” moment. Then Goodness hit the road and “Man fell.” If Man had only been a dutiful robot, all would remain GOOD. But nope, free will was invoked and Man became BAD (filthy, reprobate, depraved, whatever we want to call it). Now if Man was GOOD, Man (i.e. Humanity) would still be chilling in the Garden (Heaven). But nope. Man got BAD and it was “GTFO” time, with an Angel and Flaming Sword to seal the deal. But God wouldn't leave his biped-toy alone and so Man went from generation to generation under various “dispensations” in which he could KIND OF get “Good” with the Big Guy. This involved lots of blood. Big guy really got a yen for the blood. Cattle. Goats. People. It's all in the OT.

 

But Hey! Big Guy is a GREAT GUY! Turns out the Mosaic Law can't save ANYONE. NO ONE CAN KEEP IT (as testified by Paul in Romans). It's a ruse. So why did Big Guy keep THAT show on the road. Who knows? But at a certain point, he comes up with a new plan. I'll incarnate and call myself my Son and I'll arrange to get mutilated and murdered (like in the Mel Gibson movie) so that if these hairless apes JUST BELIEVE, they can be SAVED.

 

SAVED from WHAT????

 

Death? Oblivion? Hellfire? Their fucked up little lives? All of the above? Who cares! This is the thing to believe and THIS (and ONLY THIS) is your ticket to God.

 

And that means if you're a nice person and do a little mindfulness meditation here and there and care for the sick, disabled and poor BUT DON'T BELIEVE THE RIGHT THING, you ain't getting in.

 

Didn't Ted Bundy “believe the right thing” before he bit the big one?

 

But wait! (And, Lashtalians, I know I am trying your patience!) Have we not heard that NO ONE believes in God more than SATAN??? He believes and knows the MOST-and thus he wants to keep us from Grace and Salvation.

 

But wait....his belief counts for nothing. I mean, look at where HE is presumably at.

 

And then here comes Barbara. She states that she is both “depraved” and “not good.” But she has a “Glad Word” for us Thelemites. We don't NEED to be “Good.” Ha HA! All we need is to believe the correct thing and we can get to Heaven and have the best old time even though we are depraved little bastards (and remember....GOD made us this way!).

 

So let me get this straight. We can't get to Heaven because we aren't GOOD. We USED TO BE good but WE fucked it up (even though GOD created up with FUCK UP POTENTIAL-and simple odds show that it was really a FUCK UP PROGRAM). Now we CAN'T BE GOOD. But GOOD NEWS, everyone! Rules have changed and being good is not the condition for getting into Heaven, being saved etc. It's 100% about BELIEF.

 

OK....fine. I'll play along. So the Bible is the Word of God and I just need to accept the Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross etc etc. Well, the Bible (which is a botched canonization) says we become New Creations in Christ, we become his Co-Heirs to the Kingdom, we become his Brethren, we are the Vines which grow from the Branch which is Jesus. In fact, doesn't St. Bloody Paul say we are the living BODY OF CHRIST?

 

And here Barbara (presumably a “member”) says she is depraved and not good. You call the BODY OF CHRIST “depraved?” Whether you be the eye, stomach or toenail, you say this Body is “NOT GOOD?”

 

Barbara, please revisit the Book of Acts where the “unclean” animals are presented to Peter. And stop insulting your God by saying that, despite the cleansing blood of his son, you are STILL unclean.

 

Please also revisit Isaiah 1:18.

 

Let's Reason Together. Let's Logic this out.

 

The REAL DEAL is where we encounter, experience and are transformed. Blind belief accomplishes NOTHING. REAL CONTACT brings about REAL RESULT.

 

And we describe our energetic Initiatory experience in word and symbol. We may call something JESUS. Jesus was, according to the Gospel, accused of being in League with SATAN. Labels are subjective and we MUST define our words if we wield them with effect. Crowley loved Blake. Blake loved Jesus. And yet Blake's Jesus was VERY different from the emblem of the abusive religion which scorched AC.

 

Blake declared EVERYTHING THAT LIVES IS HOLY.

 

This is a Gnostic declaration and it emanates Compassion, Energy and Love.

 

Sorry to break it you, Barbara. But when you cut down through several layers of your “self,” you ARE Good. Getting over this shock and learning the surf the wave will be your next Initiation.

 

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

I don't doubt that her acceptance of a paradigm in which aspects of this dissatisfaction could be surrendered gave great relief, accounting for an experience which is foundational to her faith.

No doubts there. This sort of thing is resident in Netzach (4th circuit); there might be a flash from Tiphareth (5th circuit) to push the point home. This conversion is common to all cultures. The only fly in the oint is that Hindus see Krishna or Buddha, Tibetans see Avalokiteśvara, Westerners see Jesus, or his higher self, The Christ,; I don't know who the polynesians see, but it's bound to be different. And then they squabble over whose deity is the real one.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

one may question just what is going on.

I assume this "one" is someone other than the "one" who found the plantation, but cannot see the problem. I refer to converted ecstatics who then try to get others to join the plantation roster.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

So why did Big Guy keep THAT show on the road.

"I uphold a decadent system until its spiritual goal has been met ... then I pull the plug." - paraphrazed fom The book of life; coming soon in Appendix III.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

All we need is to believe the correct thing and we can get to Heaven and have the best old time even though we are depraved

I have heard that one before.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

So let me get this straight.

I don't think you can. It's too badly twisted to straighten out.

 

 


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Barbara
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Dear Kidneyhawk,

Boy, did I take a beating from your above post. I think I must have communicated my experience and my faith very poorly for you to rebuke me like that. I must say that you know your Bible very well, though.

You’re right that Isaiah 1:18 is the crux of the matter. “Come let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow.” And from Acts, “What God has cleansed, call thou not common.” I have been cleansed by the blood of the lamb, and my name is written in the book of life. I shouldn’t be so negative.

With love and humility,

Barbara


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dom
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Posted by: @ignant666

What exactly about eternal life is desirable? Whether spent wearing a nightie playing a harp and listening to beasts full of eyes saying "Holy holy holy", or in "aimless winging" "in the inane", it does not appeal.

As another "holy scripture", "Ace Of Spades", by St. Lemmy of Stoke-On-Trent, puts it

You know I'm born to lose, and gambling's for fools

But that's the way I like it baby, I don't wanna live forever.

 

I get it, you see the promise of eternality as an opiate of the people as a Sugar Candy Mountain trap a la Orwell's Animal Farm.  Yeah I get that but we don't mean that we (i.e. Christ -sympathetic New Aeon folk) are talking about the 'Zen Now' as Christ's Kingdom of Heaven.  You will find that Zen masters will also tend to quote Christ.

''And I'm bringing you this message 'cause I think it's time you knew
That the kingdom of heaven is within you." ~ Saint Roky Erickson.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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There are many levels of understanding and many possibilities.
Usually people read in, interpret things through lenses handed down to them.
Disagreements happen such as with Islamic scholar lenses which deny the resurrection of Jesus.
People in stages of the old Aeon need God, Heaven, Eternity clothed as a Santa Clause shebang; nice for children.
Some are at a stage where they need church or fancy robes and titles.
What is God ? What is Heaven ? There who are you ?
Is an undying forever, a timeless moment, consecrated generation over profane time, a cycle of changing ever, being referenced ?
There are concepts that higher notions, such as gods are built up thought forms, just like the thought forms that were built up and identified with as a birth and death process.
There is no part of us that is not of the gods.
Some propose being fully present in pain or bliss to view things correctly. To bring more awareness to the moment.
To Know thyself that is a miracle effulgent !


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Shiva
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Posted by: @tiger

There are concepts that higher notions, such as gods are built up thought forms ...

Amen.

Did you know that word is derived from, not "so be it," but Amen-Amon-Amun-Amoun, the chief god of Thebes?

Yeah, I think his agents were my enemies, back in the olden tymes.

Did you know that Elohim, presently defined as "God of the Olden Testament," actually means "the gods"? Thank you, Allan Bennett.

Whoa, that could put a whole new slant on one's point of view. Or at least a different spin.

There was more than one God in the Garden. Says so in the Genesis script. Read it and weep for monotheism.

 


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @shiva

Did you know that Elohim, presently defined as "God of the Olden Testament," actually means "the gods"?

I understood the Word was a feminine plural, as well.

And not only that - they're black too!

N Joy


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

Posted by:

 

Did you know that Elohim, presently defined as "God of the Olden Testament," actually means "the gods"?

I understood the Word was a feminine plural, as well.

And not only that - they're black too!

N Joy

And a pertinent question would now be:

Whence came this Cosmic Company?

 


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christibrany
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Posted by: @shiva

Okay. And have you experienced this state where the big picture reveals itself as eternal (or infinite)(or without time constraints)?

My own two sense sic RE time is that when I have had OOBE there is no sensation of time. You just 'are' and past present and future seem all there, or none there at all...  but I am obviously not seeing the Big Picture as I am not 'dissolved' 

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Whence came this Cosmic Company?

 

Brahman?

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

God wouldn't leave his biped-toy alone

 

The more I study ancient writings and even the Bible, it seems to me that mankind was made in the image of the Gods, who came from outer/other space and created us in their image , tinkering with native Earth DNA to get the right result.  There are indications in our genetic code that there dormant functions, and functions that don't follow pure evolution from monkey-kind.  

Its a big wide Reality with lots of critters doing lots of things to each-other. 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @christibrany

mankind was made in the image of the Gods, who came from outer/other space

Oh no, neti not-this neti, and so forth. This is the chapter/appendix that I was going to include in Hot Zones, but the text is finished, and it never made the cut.

What with Elohim ("the gods") being found in Genesis, and even talking to each other ...

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
and let them have dominion over the ... Earth.

And the God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us,
to know good and evil ...

Obviously, this is one extraterrestrial alien taking to his fellows (they do not answer, probably due to censorship in Nicea).

The Egyptians built things BIG, so Elohim (them - plural) must have been big.

Now there were Giants in those days

image

There were Giants in The Great Hypostyle Hall, but they have since Departed

The sarcophagus, not evolved into the casket or coffin, was an attempt by the Khemians to duplicate the Regeneration Chamber-Box of the aliens.

image

The duplicated box did not work, so new stories were made up in order to justify the expense.

This may be considered my "7=4 Thesis of the Week," and I know it to be true because as the Lam Lamb, I read about this in The Book of Life, and copied/pasted the pics therein as proof.

Who can deny that the alien Elohim made us up, and then cast us out of the inner circle?

 

I have posted all this so that you (anyone) can see why it did not make the cut into Hot Zones, a document that is so serious, yet so bizarre, that it may cause people to faint away.

Posted by: @christibrany

tinkering with native Earth DNA to get the right result.

But the "right stuff" missed the mark. This is true because just look at me.

 


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christibrany
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Posted by: @shiva

after our likeness:

yes OUR

Posted by: @shiva

But the "right stuff" missed the mark. This is true because just look at me.

Do you mean it missed the mark because you are not of a slave-mind? 

 

🙂 

 

Current (yes current) Christianity is of a slave-mind to the contemporary interpretation of the Bible and Jesus only tack.

Current (yes current) Islam is a of a slave-mind to the pureness of Mohammed and the Koran only tack.

I'm not a horse so no riding me with that stuff.

I can respect base teachings, ie non dogmatic = sufiism or parts of Coptic Christianity and even Nessene. 

But bending those things to what they truly aren't is not working.

Thelema is not a religion for slaves and as my final word on the subject , Thelema has barely anything at all to do with Christianity.

 

We are striving to be Kings among Men, not to bow before some 'Holy' 'King' 

For only when we are truly 'regal' and balanced may we help others. 

Not by supplicating. And not by being narcissistic or egotistical /controlling either. 

 

Grey. 


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Barbara
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Are you guys kidding me? You are just making up this “alien DNA” stuff. Maybe you are doing it just to make fun of me and my beliefs? 

The “our” in the Bible could more plausibly refer to the triune God talking to himself. Or even just like royalty using the plural to refer to themselves. But aliens? Shiva, I think you have done too much acid and shrooms in your lifetime.

And Christibrany, maybe our DNA doesn’t follow after the monkeys because we were created, not evolved. And I would rather be a slave to a holy God than be a slave to my basest self. I think you are right, though, that Thelema and Christianity have nothing in common. This thread should end.

Barbara


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ignant666
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They aren't kidding with the alien DNA stuff, no, just nutty.

Was YHVH triune yet in Genesis? The birth of Jesus is presented as an historical event, and Jesus not incarnate isn't really Jesus, so i don't think he was?

Chris is very mistaken when he says that

Posted by: @christibrany

Thelema has barely anything at all to do with Christianity.

Everything about Thelema exists in relation to and in most cases in reaction to, AC's experience of fundamentalist Xianity in his childhood. Crowley was a person who could recite huge chunks of the OT, and all/almost all of the NT, from memory.

There would be no Thelema, at least not in anything like the form it took, without the Bible, and Crowley's Sunday School upbringing.


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christibrany
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@ignant666

 

RE Thelema's beginnings , yes sir. I would say you are correct.

But that's little Alecks (sic) mind.

 

As he got older Aleister realised he was founding an Ancient religion on Ancient grounds. 

Like when you make better coffee from old grounds because your parents gave you dried out husks. 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @christibrany

Do you mean it missed the mark because you are not of a slave-mind? 

No, I mean I am deranged in my DNA and thus in my mind. And so are you. And so is everybody else.

There is only one option: Everybody must get stoned. 


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christibrany
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@shiva

 

ROFL

 

Yes, have done that. Dont like talking about it. Its not useful. 

 

Point is why are you 'deranged' ? 


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Barbara
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Posted by: @ignant666

Was YHVH triune yet in Genesis? The birth of Jesus is presented as an historical event, and Jesus not incarnate isn't really Jesus, so i don't think he was?

Yes, I believe he was. The book of John 1:1 says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Jesus is identified as the Word of God in this passage. He is the Word that spoke things into existence. Genesis 1:2 says “The Spirit of God moved upon the waters.” There’s the Holy Spirit. And God the Father is the one directing things. “Let us make man in our image.” Genesis 1:26

Barbara


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ignant666
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Posted by: @shiva

Everybody must get stoned. 

Totally startled at this very hippie-era Dylan quote out of Shiva's mouth, but he is of course correct here. Just amazed to learn that Shiva is familiar with any song recorded after Elvis got drafted.

Chris may want to think about the fact that all drugs do not have the same effects, and some, in fact, are very very boring, and not at all "strange".

Posted by: @barbaragreen

Shiva, I think you have done too much acid and shrooms in your lifetime.

Hey, i resemble that remark, lady!

"Too much" is debatable, but "really a lot" is not (in either case). But you left out the reefer-smoking (and vaporizing in old age).


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Barbara
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Question: I seem to be the only woman writing on this thread, as well as being the only Christian. Does that mean Thelema is a male-dominated religion? 

Barbara


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @barbaragreen

Does that mean Thelema is a male-dominated religion?

Thelema is a Word denoting WILL-which flows through all men and women (in fact, all things whatsoever). Whether or not Lashtal's forums have more male participants than otherwise is of no consequence to Thelema as what we might call "A Fact of Nature." 

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @barbaragreen

the only Christian

Hmmm....do you mean the only "theologically correct Christian" (such theology being your OWN...of course)?


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Barbara
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Hmmm....do you mean the only "theologically correct Christian" (such theology being your OWN...of course)?

My theology is not my own. I get it from the Bible. Am I perfectly theologically correct? No, I don’t think that anyone is, including you, including me.


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @barbaragreen

My theology is not my own. I get it from the Bible.

Your theology is matter of interpretation. Hence, you are speculating above about God talking to himself as opposed to exploring the implicits of the word ELOHIM which refers to a groups of entities (the "children of EL" as one reading goes, the Male and Female Gods as another postulates). 

The problem with tying everything down to the infallible scriptures is that the scriptures are QUITE fallible-and it ain't all "The Word of God." Genesis makes much more sense if you read, for example, the Apocryphon of John. I think we could make a case that Divine Powers preserved the Nag Hammadi stash from those who labored so hard to maintain theological control of the people via carefully canonized scripture-and who also worked (murderously so) to squelch out the "Gnostic Heresy." 

 

 


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faustian
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@barbaragreen You are probably right, there are more men on this forum than women, Coming back to the difference in theology between Christianity and Thelema. I mentioned earlier that one of the key concepts underlying Christianity is subordination to God and/or the Holy Spirit; you do not see this in Thelema, where it is more about the individual and his/her true will. Thelema is also not an organized religion, despite the best efforts of Jack Parson's wife in this respect - it is more about the "few" than the "many". 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @faustian

I mentioned earlier that one of the key concepts underlying Christianity is subordination to God and/or the Holy Spirit;

If you are speaking of the "Church at Large," of Evangelical Christianity, Fundamentalism and so on, certainly.

For myself, I understand the Christos along Blakean lines.

In the Everlasting Gospel, the poet wrote:

"If Thou Humblest Thyself, Thou Humblest Me.

Thou also dwell'st in Eternity.

Thou art a Man: God is no more:

Thine own Humanity learn to adore

For that is my spirit of life

Awake, arise to spiritual strife."

And we can see why Crowley was fond of this curious artist who devoted his life to JESUS, the Divine Imagination, God Himself. 


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faustian
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@kidneyhawk of course the irony is that Crowley was raised in an Evangelical Christian environment. 

To be honest there have been so many flavors of Christianity over the last two millennia, that it is nearly impossible to pin the term "Christian" on any specific set of beliefs in particular. Just take the belief in the afterlife - for the first thousand years of Christianity the consensus was that a person would go to purgatory and wait for the final judgement day after death. Sometime in the distant future when Jesus came back and weighed the souls like Anubis - the perfunctory soul would either go up or down depending on the prevailing winds. Today, that belief has all but disappeared from mainline Christianity - which views death as a direct transmission line to heaven. Admission requirements into Pearly Gates have also been severely relaxed, requiring nothing more than "accepting" Jesus as your personal lord and savior at some moment before the actual act of expiration. 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @faustian

Admission requirements into Pearly Gates have also been severely relaxed, requiring nothing more than "accepting" Jesus as your personal lord and savior at some moment before the actual act of expiration. 

I agree and I don't pretend that my views (or those of Blake) express what is generally understood as “Christianity.” On the other hand, I view mainstream Christianities as so far removed from the Gnostic origins of the religion to be a travesty.

 

Matthew Ch. 7 finds Jesus saying:

 

Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

 

So professing Christ (lip service) isn't adequate. Belief isn't adequate (as I demonstrated above in the case of the Big Believer, Satan). What gets one into The Kingdom?

 

Doing the Will of the Father.

 

This isn't being “subservient” to the Father. It's DOING THE WILL of this “Father.”

 

Jesus makes himself ONE with the Father in John Ch. 10 when he declares:

 

“The Father is in me, and I in him.”

 

The religious authorities pretty much say he is demon possessed lunatic at this point.

 

The Unity between Son and Father is also expressed in Crowley's Book of Lies in the ever wonderful Chapter entitled Pilgrim Talk where one traverses and then BECOMES The WAY!

 

We have a point of Unity between the Transcendental and the Immanent.

 

Christ and Anti-Christ are subjective symbols. How they carry consciousness is paramount.

 

Which is, again, a matter of definition and interpretation.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @christibrany

Point is why are you 'deranged' ? 

I Am Deranged, and so are you, because the alien Elohim creator gods snipped certain conscious connections to the higher neurocircuits. The act was lengendized into the story known as Expulsion From The Garden of Eden. You can never trust the accuracy of the Legends, because they are coated over with twists in order to protect the secret information from the profane.

We are the profane.

So we get 4 circuits for a 4-dimensional world, with Time Restraints being the 4th. Stuck on the Earth plane. Grounded. Kicked out of Eden, which begins to manifest again (a little) at Tiphereth in the 5th circuit. But even to get there you have to do a lot of work (that's why it's called The GREAT Work), or get stoned.

Stoning is not permanent, but it can help in working. Working leads to permanent upgrades. Stoning won't help the 6th circuit, but there are other strange remedies.

Why don't you know all this? Don't you keep up with the Legends that have been around for decades? Do you have another question that you should already know the answer to?

Posted by: @ignant666

amazed to learn that Shiva is familiar with any song recorded after Elvis got drafted.

I thought I heard that song playing on my phono back in '65 or so. Maybe it was "blowin' in the wind," an appropriate theme for the new National Anthem, teaching the masses about wu-wei. 

Posted by: @barbaragreen
Posted by: @barbaragreen

Shiva, I think you have done too much acid and shrooms in your lifetime.

Oh I missed this. I'm glad it got quoted.

Now we have commentary from the folk folly. When I move into hi gear, there are actually people here who follow my presentations. Then there are those that are slow. But you couldn't keep up if you had a fast horse, because you haven't done the work. You are operating in a 4D, 4-circuit world, and you had a 5th circuit experience sometime back, maybe even some recurring flashes since then. You are safely cocooned in an abstract, non-demonstrable paradigm that is so dense you are unable to make "thoughts" about what is going on here (he points to his vehicle).

I suppose my indulgence in soft but strange remedies is why the Establishment gave me a license to practice medicine, and the dojo guys gave me a black belt and trained me as a competition judge, and Academia gave me four (4) earned doctoral degrees, one after the other, and they never noticed my derangement, isn't that a ridiculous overload in Academia?, and they let me keep driving my car, and administering medical schools 'til I retired.

I also wrote the (apparently) only book on the medical and magical uses of every strange remedy under the sun and in the ground.

I think your ability to judge anything outside your cocoon is faulty. You have repeatedly demonstrated that here. If you were a man, I would invite you to come to my dojo and show your stuff, after everybody's vacated, no, vaccinated. But you, being of the softer gender, you don't get invited to the dojo. You get one sentence replies, unless you point directly at me, and udder, no, utter nonsense that you think is clever, because you don't have the experience, because you missed out on doing the work.

Derangement must be changed in Re-arrangement. After all "Heaven is within you." That means it's a state, and not a place. Don't feel bad, most people make that mistake. They think The City of the Pyramids in in AEgypt <haha>.

Did you follow all that? If not, then you once were found, but now you're lost. Baa-baa-baa.

Posted by: @barbaragreen

Does that mean Thelema is a male-dominated religion? 

The names of women members are never divulged. There is an entire thread on what you ask. There are many women in the Thelemic line, and some in the Maat quarter. But, yes, few women hang in here. The male-oriented logic is too much for their, um, emotional natures.

--------------------------- stop -------------------------------

Say, this has become a real hot zone. Anyone can tell by calculating the ppm (posts per minute) and multiplying it by the minutes consumed (4th dimension tax). This thread has a high number. Hot Zones don't live very long. The longer they get, the more repetitive and boring they become. Cold Zone threads will bore you so much that you go to sleep.

 


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kidneyhawk
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What might be helpful to Barbara is to get a copy of Alice Bailey's Initiation: Human and Solar AND the Unfinished Autobiography. Read these and ENJOY THEM.

 

Shiva, I don't think Barbara is following with half of the reference points being thrown at her.

 

I will add this, in the event that it might prove helpful:

 

Barbara, at one point in my life I believed as you express yourself here. My belief system I would describe as “fundamentalist.” I was grossly misled. But I was MOST sincere. And, as a youngster, I wasn't content with simple or easy answers. I had questions and I felt that I could assail the scriptures with them-for my inquiries could only evoke illumination from the perfection of God's Word.

 

I found myself joining Dorothy and her Gang in unmasking that Man behind the Curtain.

 

On my Path, I didn't shuttle from ardent belief into disillusionment and atheism. No, Wicked Crowley was waiting for me. I first heard of the Holy Qabala in the works of AC. Many doors opened when I got a hold of Magick in Theory and Practice.

 

I hope you understand that I am not some slavish “follower” of anyone. But I DO acknowledge those who have helped me out over the years. It's called a “Debt of Gratitude.”

 

If you've been paying attention, there are aspects of Crowley's mortal life which disgust me. But I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are aspects of this Man's life which have been helpful and life changing, also. Hence, I am here on Lashtal and I have a deep interest in all things “Crowleyan.” And we all have great talks about “Life, the Universe and Everything.”

 

Again, I'd suggest you look into Alice Bailey and esp. her great book Initiation, Human and Solar. It will feel complex at first but try to flow with her Spirit. Bailey is a kind and good Spirit and she has a lot of depth and wisdom to share. Even Shiva regards her highly.

 

And I'll add this:

 

I once set about a certain Magical Operation which involved some very intense forces. My mentor told me that he hoped I enjoyed it. I was all serious and ready to enter the Outer Gateways and my mentor remarked that he hoped I “enjoyed it.” This took some wind out of my sails but also has stuck with me over the years.

 

Henry David Thoreau once remarked that the whole business of Man (including WOMAN) was to LOVE GOD AND ENJOY HIM FOREVER.

 

What a wonderful statement!

 

Let's wrestle, argue and fight. Let's talk and share and pray. But this isn't a game of Chess. This is a communion of human hearts. So let's enjoy it and have fun and enter the fray (Octagon) with an eye toward learning more in the joy of our learning.

 

Or, as Jaz Coleman sang, we learn to get knocked down, every moment, until WE LOVE GETTING UP.

 


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kidneyhawk
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For reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SANRCgEDP1w


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wellreadwellbred
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ignant666: "They aren't kidding with the alien DNA stuff, no, just nutty.

Was YHVH triune yet in Genesis? The birth of Jesus is presented as an historical event, and Jesus not incarnate isn't really Jesus, so i don't think he was?"

Yes, Barbara Green, as stated by ignant666, the alien DNA stuff is nutty, and the following yotube video covers how the term Elohim as mentined in this thread, was originally used and understood by ancient Hebrews, in scriptures sacred to them, at 38 minutes 43 seconds:  

"EP33: The Unseen Realm w/ Dr. Michael Heiser": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifNdJPgJATA  

And Barbara Green, in the Gospels Jesus is described as having authority over demons, and the demons exorcised by Jesus in one exorcism, adress Jesus with these hostile words:

"Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.” (Source: MARK 1:24 KJV (KJV is the version of the Bible that Aleister Crowley was indoctrinated with).) 

My point is that Aleister Crowley understood the second most important book of his Thelema (The Vision and the voice), "... as being written by the same hand as Liber L[= the most important book of his Thelema]. One may assume the constants as the contribution of the author ; the differences as due to inspiration alone."

That is, Crowley understood the similarities within these two books as the contribution of what to him was the real author of them, that is a voice, which he considered originated with a non-corporeal intelligenc, naming itself Aiwass. 

Among the similarities within these two books, is a hostility against the Jesus of Christinity, and the very first received part of The Vision and the voice, the second most important book of Crowley's Thelema, does actually quote the already mentioned hostile words used to adress Jesus, by some demons exorcised by him:

"Let us alone! What have we to do with Thee, Thou Jesus of Nazareth?" (Source: "The Cry of the 30th Æthyr Which is Called TEX", received by Aleister Crowley, in Mexico 1900, being the very first received part of what later became the The Vision and the voice.)


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Among the similarities within these two books, is a hostility against the Jesus of Christinity, and the very first received part of The Vision and the voice, the second most important book of Crowley's Thelema, does actually quote the already mentioned hostile words used to adress Jesus

Big surprise.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Shiva, I don't think Barbara is following with half of the reference points being thrown at her.

Yes, I get that. But you see, I have gotten down on bended knee and explained in the most basic terms how all paths lead to Heaven, if performed properly ... for months. She flunked the final challenge to state whether she is on the one true path, or if she admits the possibility that other paths, including Thelema, Maat, or Bodhisattva, can make it as well. She dodged the bullet, and I got off my knee and moved into high gear.

As i remarked off-campus to another poster, "I am undertaking this dialogue to enhance the view for others," or words to that eFort. The diagnosis has been made: Terminal crystallization, with quotes.

That's fine. I'll drop into the Tuat here from time to time. Holding to one sentence replies, unless she points directly at me. Then i will exercise the cosmic overdive. It may be over her head, but there are a few others that will get the drift.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

I will add this, in the event that it might prove helpful:

I predict that you are head-banging on a granite pyramid stone. If i'm wrong, you may file to have my Profits license revoked.

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

ignant666: "They aren't kidding with the alien DNA stuff, no, just nutty.

I missed this one, too. Good thing it got quoted.

Actually, I am not promoting the alien DNA manipulation theory. I do not believe it or base any decisions upon it. This is not simply because there is no factual evidence, but because I have not been granted any internal evidence. I have never taken a ride on a ufo, or been abducted, or any of that stuff. We have a video of a ufo, that's all. I am not at war with the Deep State, because I don't know where to aim the gun.

I must confess that I do recommend the curriculum of the A.'.A.'., but only if tempered by two books by Alice Bailey (titles withheld but available on request along with a short guiding lecture), because it works, and it is the most practical curriculum available here in the west. The heathen Orientals may have something better. I don't know, but I've never been there. You have. But I suppose you weren't guru shopping or going to the local spiritual bookstores at that time.

This DNA, UFO, Abduction, Deep State, Great Beast, Antediluvian Civilizations, and a Coming Avatar who will save us stuff are all part of my Legend Catalog. I can converse on any one of them, but I do not promote them as the truth, except as an interior state. Well, the ancient civilization that was worldwide that had technology that supases our, to be seen in the pyramid thread, has a simple verification with one's eyes. I think we could build a pyramid today, with lasers and cranes and trucks, if someone wanted to ... but I'm not sure.

So let's put the Equivalent of Atlantis at Malkuth. The other six I mentioned get allocated to the 6 higher planes. They get more abstracted as you go. I think they are painted over copies of some archetype or another.

II just went over this exact same thing this morning by encrypted email, where the Black Lodge can't read it. It is fucking midnight here, again, night after night. I should just go and copy what I wrote and paste it here. But I feel compelled to burn the Midnight Oil in repetition with what might certainly contain a different slant.

Here is the Gospel.

All this stuff is bullshit if we hear or read about it. The information age is too much for most people to handle and not get swayed into some illusion.

The only thing that counts is what comes knocking on your physical plane door. Or in your Malkuth mail box. We can include email and forums, but that's starting to get abstract. For me, telephones don't count because I don't have one, but if you do, we can count that in as well.

If you want to be Indiana Jones and go out looking for adventure, well, that places your vehicle in danger. I know that you know all about that one. So that counts as well.

So whatever comes in, or you purposely go out to meet, is what we call reality Never mind that the reality can be seen as an illusion at some higher level. I have tried to define our "Field of Perception and Influence." That's what counts. That's what must be dealt with on a daily basis.

This other metaphysical stuff is abstract. If someone comes to your door to alter your DNA, and he/she might not be an alien Elohim, you have to admit it into the reality acceptance program. Otherwise it's speculation and often, as you note, nutty. It isn't real.

Another feature is, if you believe in any of this, and you are a candidate for the Christianity thread, what are you going to do about it? Alter your own DNA? (Note: Doing the work at the higher levels - circuit 6 in particular - allows one to change the lower circuits. Nothing lower will do. This may imply DNA change, but I don't say so). Kill the Deep State leaders - if you can find them? Steal a UFO? 

This is the irritating part: People get worked up about alternative views for not facing their karma. They really BELIEVE in this stuff, and it becomes a constant reference point in their interactions with others. Some can't utter a sentence without throwin in a Bible quote. Others can't resist telling you how vaccinations will kill you. They get their input, and the program takes over. It runs automatically. They just know its the truth. It's usually locked up in Netzach. Beware the house of (eros) love.

No aliens have come to my door, except maybe you and Tiger. You know, strangers in a strange land. The Deep State has not come to warn me, or take me away (yet). So I consider these things to be abstract. I do not carry any of them around in a belief state where they affect daily decisions or even conversations.

I do have my own inner structure. I built it myself. Everybody has to. As far as I know, it works just fine when applied. All movements in the martial arts begin in a state of absolute emptiness. The same applies to life. Call it detachment, non-attachment, emptiness, whatever. I am skilled enough to be able to shift into this void, at will, my will not thine, at any moment.

Except when I can't.
<giggles are heard in the audience>

I was skilled enough to hit this state at least 3 or 4 times a day, before recently. For a period of time, about 3 or 4 months, I was consciously unable to zero out even once a day. The input from the physical plane was so discordant and irrational that I could not pull out of constant mental and physical concern. My physical body could not perform construction labors (saws and hammers and paint) for more than 15 minutes. Then my balance went off. They prescribed Prednisone - serios stuff. Within one hour of the first half tablet, I felt better. For the next ten days I performed hours of work each day, finally completing a major physical plane project, with heavy lifting and keen mentality to reconstruct a small universe.

I was also able to hit zero. That was a relief.

I was given 5 tablets, but told I could take 1/2 a day for ten days. I wondered what might come when the tablets ran out. I suspected a return to disorder. Yes, disorder returned but only minor. After 3 days I noticed that I seemed stabilized. That was less than a month ago. I am now back to some altered version of "normal." I can still be rattled. An example.

Almost every transaction has errors. It is never my (our)  fault. This sounds boastful, but it is true. Don't fuck the data or delivery up with a Virgo. It is always the agent, the seller, the delivery company, or their stupid Borg technology. It's really not every transactions. The big Deep State companies know their stuff. It's the middle and low range companies that are being forced into digital recording and 2-Step Verification. So I pick up a bill, or an invoice, or a form, to do it justice, which should take 3-5 minutes at most. But no, an hour later I am still fiddling with passwords, billing errors, account number changes, etc. After 3 or 4 items (2-4 hours), I can be heard cursing and explaining how stupid this system has become. She always says, "I hate them. they are going to hell."

But, the past week or two, I have been able to recover swiftly and add a greater sense of non-attachment. During my fits, I do not seek the balancing zero, because it does not occur to me. to do so.

And while any or all of this is going on, I am not influenced by the Legends. Not in the fits of mental strain or in the Zero zone. They have nothing to do with what I am doing. Including the Cairo Reception and other forms of paranoia or belief.

The only metaphysical drum I will beat, and mean it for sure, is the zero point, brought to life in wu-wei, things along that line. And the A.'.A.'. curriculum recommendation. Personally, I find no use in the inspirational holy books, and I only recommend the Class D stuff. The B & C is optional, according to one's interest.

The other stuff? DNA cooked up to order? Yeah, I was kidding. Playing out the Garden of Eden game with technological overtones. You'll have to ask Chris whether he takes this stuff seriously, whether he believes in abstract notions, or what he plans to do about it.

Well, now it's almost 1:30 after the Midnight Oil.

Bye.


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Barbara
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Let's wrestle, argue and fight. Let's talk and share and pray. But this isn't a game of Chess. This is a communion of human hearts. So let's enjoy it and have fun and enter the fray (Octagon) with an eye toward learning more in the joy of our learning.

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly, except for the part about the fighting. I’m not emotionally cut out to fight. I prefer the way of peace. Your rebuke of me cut to my heart and left a lot of hurt. I feel that I have poured out my heart in this forum, only to get picked apart for every phrase. Not just by you, but by everyone.

You’re right about me not understanding most of what is thrown at me in this forum. I do know a little bit about Crowley, though, as I was interested in him before I met Jesus. How else do you think I ended up on a commune with a man who claimed to be Crowley’s son?

Mike once told me that the proof in the pudding is in the eating, not whether the cook eats it. I disagree. I think that the life should align with the teaching. With Crowley, there is such a disconnect between the two, that I am very skeptical. With Jesus, there is no disconnect. He lived what he taught.

I also liked your quote from Thoreau, to love God and enjoy him forever is our highest calling. What else can I do after He picked me up out of the miry clay, cleansed me, and set my feet on the upward path. Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow.

One concern I have is regarding the heavy use of hallucinogens and marijuana in the pathways of so many in this forum. I tried all that when I was younger, and quickly realized that it wasn’t for me. I’m not totally against it, per se, but I just don’t get the appeal.

Well, that’s all for now.

Barbara


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Tiger
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@Shiva
“ Who can deny that the alien Elohim made us up, and then cast us out of the inner circle? “

According to Buddhism we were not cast out.
Desire and love motivate Cycles of origination, duration and cessation, patterns of manifestations; causing effect.
Mental factors that take part in the rise of craving and clinging create the substantialist views of a self that forms sentient experience.
Free of the afflictive and cognitive obscurations; the world as the form of emptiness in a nondual manner, as an inseparable unity of form and emptiness is a gnosis (jñāna).
On the other hand, ordinary sentient beings, whose perception is influenced by the afflictive and cognitive obscurations, see the world in a dual fashion, as something other than themselves. They see the world as an ordinary place inhabited by ordinary sentient beings. But in reality, the entire cosmos is a cosmic reflection a cosmic image a cosmic body; a correspondence between a macrocosmic processes and microcosmic processes interconnecting and influencing each other in a like manner as expressed by Pythagoras, re-articulated by Plato.

@kidneyhawk
 “ And a pertinent question would now be: Whence came this Cosmic Company? “

Shiva posted
“ The only thing that counts is what comes knocking on your physical plane door. Or in your Malkuth mail box “
“ So whatever comes in, or you purposely go out to meet, is what we call reality Never mind that the reality can be seen as an illusion at some higher level. I have tried to define our "Field of Perception and Influence." That's what counts. That's what must be dealt with on a daily basis. “

The Buddha recommended spending time bringing awareness more and more fully to the present and not waste time on spooky conjectures of creationism and counterproductive areas of speculation.

@barbaragreen
“ With Jesus, there is no disconnect. “

I wouldn’t consider sending demons into a herd of two thousand pigs causing them to rushed down a steep bank into a lake and drown; a Godly act.

@Shiva
Glad to hear of your resilience and ability to recover swiftly.
May the stupid system and its false foundation collapse upon itself.


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Tiger
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@kidneyhawk
“ And a pertinent question would now be: Whence came this Cosmic Company? “

Crescent Pan Spermia
Germination All Seed
reckoning


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Posts: 2856
 
Posted by: @shiva

Why don't you know all this? Don't you keep up with the Legends that have been around for decades? Do you have another question that you should already know the answer to?

Sometimes Christ Chris likes to play Devil's advocate.  Triple Entendre? 

Posted by: @tiger

Crescent Pan Spermia

Triple Pleroma?

Posted by: @shiva

No aliens have come to my door, except maybe you and Tiger

 

I have seen one up close once, believe it or not.  It was camouflaged like pixels.  *everyone rolls eyes*

Posted by: @shiva

You'll have to ask Chris whether he takes this stuff seriously, whether he believes in abstract notions, or what he plans to do about it.

I think that the most likely candidate for human creation is a mix of 'Elohim' from 'out there' mixed with natural evolution.  I like to say life is never black and white, but a mix.  A greyness.  

Along that tack I always like to say reality is subjective.  Its wherever your Assemblage Point/ POV / choice is at.  Sure it's not that cut and dry, but I think human consciousness and belief alter our reality.  There's even the Observer effect in Science which ties along, and our newer findings in quantum physics.  

 

Just like the 'nuts' that think Jesus opened a Stargate and ascended via a wormhole to another reality. That kind of thing.

Isn't it fascinating that so much 'magick' has happened around the Great Pyramids, Temple of Solomon and that area?  Some Earth zone of specialty?  Now I surely digress. 

Posted by: @barbaragreen

I also liked your quote from Thoreau, to love God and enjoy him forever is our highest calling.

If you are going to get any of us to relate to Jesus or Christianity it is best done from a Gnostic standpoint.  The original beliefs of self empowerment.  Not the newer beliefs of self abasement under an authority or a blind belief. 

 

'To love god and enjoy him forever is our highest calling'

to that I quote

'1. O my beautiful God! I swim in Thy heart like a trout in the mountain torrent.

2. I leap from pool to pool in my joy; I am goodly with brown and gold and silver.

3. Why, I am lovelier than the russet autumn woods at the first snowfall.

4. And the crystal cave of my thought is lovelier than I.

5. Only one fish-hook can draw me out; it is a woman kneeling by the bank of the stream. It is she that pours the bright dew over herself, and into the sand so that the river gushes forth.

6. There is a bird on yonder myrtle; only the song of that bird can draw me out of the pool of Thy heart, O my God!


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Shiva
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Posted by: @barbaragreen

I just don’t get the appeal.

The medicine allows entry into the higher states of consciousness, but only temporarily, and my lifelong goal has been to open the doors of perception without the assistance of chemistry; I recommend, in several books and on a website somewhere, that all users strive to cut their dependence on strange molecules until they need it no more.

Posted by: @barbaragreen

the heavy use of hallucinogens

The psychedelic medicinals prohibit heavy us; they are non-addictive and simply will not work if one takes them day after day; however, in micro-doses (tiny amounts), they can be taken day after day, which is what all of the programmers do, daily, in silicone valley - we should all be concerned that we are being led into a dependence on digital software and infrastructures that are designed by drug-enhanced programmers who are in competition with other drug-enhanced programmers, none of whom are seeking the Light.

Posted by: @tiger

According to Buddhism ...

Yes, I know about that. But this is the Christianity thread, so I refer to the Christian archetypes. It's a different matter in the Buddha's thread. 

"It's those damn Eastern Teachings!"
swore the Rev Nerdy Morris,
whose name was really Murray Norris,
and he was really upset just to think about
those heathen despicables.

Posted by: @tiger

Cycles of origination

The Christians refer to this as "original sin." We are all born with a karmic price tag attached to our toe.

Posted by: @tiger

May the stupid system and its false foundation collapse upon itself.

By making this magical act of destruction, I see that you are aware of the illogic in the infrastructure of The Matrix brought from the movie theaters into everyday reality. The electrical scientists tell us that one direct hit from a solar flare (coronal mass ejection, they happen all the time), or one nicely placed nuke up in the sat belt, will wipe ot the sats, the GPS, the internet, and then where will we be? Simply to avoid losing one's mind, the practice of primitive survival tactics is recommended.

Obligatory quote:

"I uphold a decadent system until its spiritual goal is reached;
then I pull the plug."

Posted by: @christibrany

the Observer effect in Science which ties along, and our newer findings in quantum physics.  

Yes, the tests whereby folks doing experiments at the subatomic level find that the outcome is influenced by what the observers want, or expect. This is a fine example of real confirmation bias. We must praise the Lord for protecting us from what others think in a stable atomic zone.

Posted by: @christibrany

Isn't it fascinating that so much 'magick' has happened around the Great Pyramids, Temple of Solomon and that area?

Yes. It is also fascinating that the same area holds the most hotly-contested real estate on the planet - a place that has been in armed conflict for centuries ... more than just one Aeon of a mere 2000 years. It is a particularly hot zone right now, even today.

It is said that the great pyramid, and its fellows, sit at the center of the geographical land mass of all the continents. Sort of like ground zero in the original ONE continent where everything around it has spread out to form New York, Road Island (which is not an island), New Mexico, and Boulder, Colorado. We're a long way from home, Toto.

I do not know this to be true as I have no way to confirm it, and I have no inclination to figure out how to weigh the continents and determine the center of their mass. But centuries of armed conflict (as they battle to gain access to the Syrian Stargate) is enough to know where not to go (unless one is an adrenaline danger-zone addict).

Posted by: @christibrany

a Gnostic standpoint. 

But those are they guys who were persecuted by the upper Romans. They had to live in DUMBs (Deep Underground Military Bases - masquerading as the Catacombs under Rome) in order to hide from The Man (Big Brother). I suppose this was the first schism - Gnosis (direct perception) versus the intermediary principle of Blind Faith.

 

 


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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@shiva

 

All I can say is 'yes sir' 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBk0QauAbHw

[warning for crazy Canadians] 

 

I am 'feeling' it. 

 

@Ignant666

I too am tired of-  'this'

If you are right, you're right. right? 

If you are left, you're left, right? 

march step march. 

 

I'm nothing. And know, that's not a Cop Out. 


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dom
 dom
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Topic starter  
Posted by: @shiva

 

I suppose my indulgence in soft but strange remedies is why the Establishment gave me a license to practice medicine,

 I thought you left Dental School before you graduated.    What do you mean you 'practice medicine'?     

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @dom

What do you mean you 'practice medicine'?

I have been licensed to practice primary care medicine (that means you can treat anyone for any condition without needing referral or supervision by any other dude or dame) since 1986, in two States and Nationally as well). I left dentistry and "practiced" the laboratory aspects aspects for years. My first vocational coup after leaving The Tong was to have the dental school hire me to teach dental students. Go figure that one out. But I got far away from the clinical "practice" of dentistry because I found out why dentists are in the profession that sports the "highest rate of suicide" among any and all professions.

After kicking around in teaching dentistry and the dental laboratories, I enrolled in SAMRA University of Oriental Medicine, where I earned a Bachelor, Master, and Doctoral degree in Oriental Medicine, and was granted a license to practice. That was in 1986. I retired in 2005, a professional run of 24 years if am adding correctly. 

I will confess to practicing dentistry on an emergency basis in Mexico. I hope they don't read this and send the Federales to haul me away.

Yes, I am by legal definition a "licensed physician." 

 


dom liked
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Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Jesus makes himself ONE with the Father in John Ch. 10 when he declares:

“The Father is in me, and I in him.”

The religious authorities pretty much say he is demon possessed lunatic at this point.

Well if they looked on the Father as Demiurge, they were right!

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Again, I'd suggest you look into Alice Bailey and esp. her great book Initiation, Human and Solar. It will feel complex at first but try to flow with her Spirit. Bailey is a kind and good Spirit and she has a lot of depth and wisdom to share. Even Shiva regards her highly.

What does your insertion of "Even" mean here?

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Henry David Thoreau once remarked that the whole business of Man (including WOMAN) was to LOVE GOD AND ENJOY HIM FOREVER.

What a wonderful statement!

And it would have been an even more wonderful statement if he'd also put "HIM (including HER) FOREVER" wouldn't it!

Posted by: @shiva

Holding to one sentence replies, unless she points directly at me.

Such as the reply to the "too much acid and shrooms" allegation?!

Posted by: @shiva

I do have my own inner structure. I built it myself. Everybody has to. As far as I know, it works just fine when applied. All movements in the martial arts begin in a state of absolute emptiness. The same applies to life. Call it detachment, non-attachment, emptiness, whatever. I am skilled enough to be able to shift into this void, at will, my will not thine, at any moment.

Snap!

Posted by: @shiva

Except when I can't.

Ditto snap!  (Flip!)

Posted by: @shiva

<giggles are heard in the audience>

<flop!>

Posted by: @christibrany

Isn't it fascinating that so much 'magick' has happened around the Great Pyramids, Temple of Solomon and that area?  Some Earth zone of specialty? 

Nah, that's Boleskine!

Posted by: @christibrany

If you are going to get any of us to relate to Jesus or Christianity it is best done from a Gnostic standpoint. 

Yes I agree, it looks like it - and as in 'Know Thyself'. 

Posted by: @shiva

my lifelong goal has been to open the doors of perception without the assistance of chemistry

Though everything (in the physical sense) in the body comes down to bio-chemistry, in some molecular sense. (as you say below actually)

Posted by: @shiva

all users strive to cut their dependence on strange molecules until they need it no more.

Reductio ad absurdam - like homeoepathic remedies? (=increasingly dilated to zero)

Posted by: @shiva

The psychedelic medicinals prohibit heavy us[e]; they are non-addictive and simply will not work if one takes them day after day; however, in micro-doses ...

When does "micro" morph into "heavy" - isn't there anything (effective) "intermediate"?

Posted by: @shiva

The electrical scientists tell us that one direct hit from a solar flare (coronal mass ejection, they happen all the time), or one nicely placed nuke up in the sat belt, will wipe ot the sats, the GPS, the internet, and then where will we be?

Up Shitters Creek sans paddle, for a lot of people - I suppose we could always go back to feudalism though? (joke)

Posted by: @shiva

It is said that the great pyramid, and its fellows, sit at the center of the geographical land mass of all the continents. Sort of like ground zero in the original ONE continent where everything around it has spread out

Yes, I've come across this urban global myth before, but never seen any evidence for it... Does this pan-continental land mass also include Antarctica and Australia?

Posted by: @shiva

But I got far away from the clinical "practice" of dentistry because I found out why dentists are in the profession that sports the "highest rate of suicide" among any and all professions.

Why is that? (I ask out of interest as someone who once considered being a dentist, at one point).

I know this is OT but can I also briefly ask, what is your own informed medical opinion on a mass immunisation programme with anti-Covid vaccines - are you basically pro or anti?

N Joy


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
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Posts: 5803
 
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

What does your insertion of "Even" mean here?

He probably means that since I am taking her to task for being narrow-minded, I would be the last one to regard her highly.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Why is that? (I ask out of interest as someone who once considered being a dentist, at one point).

1. To make big bucks, the dentist must run lots of patients at big buck fees. The stress of running 4 to 6 operatories at a time is extremely high. The dentist has a narcotics license. Some drugs reduce the stress. But they are addictive, so the battle begins.

2. Everybody hates the dentist. He/she may have a very nice persona, but the patient's body ("every-body") hates the dentist. He/she operates things that often cause pain, and always cause discomfort,  inside the normally set-up "comfort zone." Many people are afraid of the dentist. Their apprehension is palpable, and they radiate this emotional discomfort. Sensitive dentists will "pick up" this apprehension. It will cause them stress, and they may not even know where it comes from.

(The best dentists are non-sensitive, thick-skinned, but with high manual-dexterity. They do not take their own medicine. They do not get stressed - usually because they set a reasonable schedule. They do not get suicidal. They get unreasonably rich, because they usually have the patient in a no-wiggle (out of paying the high fees) position.

3. Dentists know they have exactly (more or less) twenty years to make their fortune. For some reason, they put their big profits into apartment buildings - as many as they can - for their retirement. They will retire due to failing eyesight and/or degeneration of manual dexterity, or some other physical ailment. Many will practice into their 50s or even 70s, but this is not the norm. Early on, they know this intellectually, but nobody knows what their physical fate is to be, so they plan for 20 years ... at high speed. Sounds stressful.

When I was in dental school, the highest suiciders were psychiatrists, with dentists in second place. Somewhere along the line, the dentists pulled into first place, a few decades ago.

It all starts in dental school. There are enough medical studies (similar to a medical doc) to guarantee constant loss of valuable sleep. To this is added countless projects of building crowns, bridges, dentures, etc to bite even deeper. I averaged 2-3 hours of sleep per night. To remedy this, almost everyone took dexedrine. Good stuff for long-term sleep deprivation, with astoundingly beautiful projects submitted for examination (and a grade).

As a side note, and barely related, it might be of extreme and important interest to know that among the dental laboratory technicians, the ones who build porcelain crowns, the most delicate tooth replacement, requiring much more of an artistic capacity, are the ones prone to alcoholism. That disease is rampant among the porcelain builders.

As a further note, and to keep in line with the overminding goal, I wonder about AC and the dentist. Nobody, unless they die young, escapes the dentist. There might be a rare exception or two, somewhere. I do recall reading letters, and telegrams, relating to the medic ... mostly in relation to "send money" and trying several doctor's offices to get a certain Rx. Note: Rx = 220. Does that ring a synchronous tone?


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Tiger
(@tiger)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1779
 

@Shiva
 “ The Christians refer to this as "original sin." We are all born with a karmic price tag attached to our toe. “

Nice comparison on the cause and effect charge.
I was just trying to get the sin out of the original in order not to be restrictive and got carried away in cycles with out beginning or end.

“ But this is the Christianity thread “

Ah forgive me, i was raised under a nondenominational branch which illuminate that the Jesus of Nicene Creedalism regurgitating scripture in a final say belief system, as the only show in town pyramid scheme, was not the True Christ, but the one of the black brothers. And that the True Christ, The Anointed one, Fiery and Shiny is the same as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden whose number is 358 the same as the messiah; is the one that freed man to become a brazen star, initiating experiential knowledge of Divine Presence.
“Who is the one who seeks and who is the one who reveals?” Jesus answers, “The one who seeks is the one who reveals. That for which you are seeking is within you.”, “The living God dwells in you and you dwell in him.”
Nag Hammadi text, The Dialogue of the Savior

The serpent freed Eve the more spiritually evolved half from
“ a malignant being who traps human souls in the world of matter. In order to keep them subject to his power, and prevents them from realizing their true nature “
On the Origin of the World and The Hypostasis of the Archons.

Man was freed to know true nature, not kicked out because a sinner was created to be ransomed.


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kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
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Posts: 1994
 
Posted by: @shiva

As a further note, and to keep in line with the overminding goal, I wonder about AC and the dentist. Nobody, unless they die young, escapes the dentist.

Nor did he.

In THE INCOMING OF THE AEON OF MAAT (Starfirfe), there is a passage (p. LIII, Introduction) in which Symonds, as executor of Crowley's will, tabulates the "stuff" that comes into his possession after Crowley's death. Along with his "appallingly ugly paintings" and "pipes," Symonds acquires "false teeth." 


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kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
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Posts: 1994
 
Posted by: @tiger

the True Christ, The Anointed one, Fiery and Shiny is the same as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden whose number is 358 the same as the messiah; is the one that freed man to become a brazen star, initiating experiential knowledge of Divine Presence

And thus we have Jesus in the famous John Chapter 3 remarking to Nicodemus:

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life (this is the part they skip over at football games).

Emphasis here is not on the issue of "belief" but the continuity of the serpent symbolism from Pentateuch to NT.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

What does your insertion of "Even" mean here?

I was simply wishing to indicate that Bailey comes well-recommended. If Shiva had not repeatedly alluded to her writings on this forum, I wouldn't assume that he would regard her as he does (as Bailey can come across off as Christian-New Age, has her focus on service to others etc-things we wouldn't normally think of as compatible with Crowley's Thelema). In the case of Barbara, Shiva has, indeed, taken her to task for narrow-mindedness-and this narrow-mindedness comes in the form of fundamentalism. I was recommending Bailey to Barbara as her writing might serve as an "entry-point" for a deeper study of Christianity with a recognition of other religions as equal, if different, carriers of mystical wisdom (this is expressed early on in the Unfinished Autobiography). But kind Mrs Bailey IS much more than some Christ-Friendly New Agey stuff packed into little blue paperbacks-and even Shiva regards her highly.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

if they looked on the Father as Demiurge, they were right!

Which they clearly didn't. Nor would they have recognized Jesus' Father as the God they claimed to worship. Jesus points to a Verity beyond the throne of the Demiurge (whose edicts and commandments are all a resounding "Thou Shalt Not PASS!")

In The Gospel of Judas, Judas perceives the True Nature of Jesus and says:

"I know who you are and where you have come from. You are from the Immortal Realm of Barbelo."     

 

 


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hadgigegenraum
(@hadgigegenraum)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 231
 
Posted by: @tiger

 

Ah forgive me, i was raised under a nondenominational branch which illuminate that the Jesus of Nicene Creedalism regurgitating scripture in a final say belief system, as the only show in town pyramid scheme, was not the True Christ, but the one of the black brothers. And that the True Christ, The Anointed one, Fiery and Shiny is the same as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden whose number is 358 the same as the messiah; is the one that freed man to become a brazen star, initiating experiential knowledge of Divine Presence.
“Who is the one who seeks and who is the one who reveals?” Jesus answers, “The one who seeks is the one who reveals. That for which you are seeking is within you.”, “The living God dwells in you and you dwell in him.”
Nag Hammadi text, The Dialogue of the Savior

The serpent freed Eve the more spiritually evolved half from
“ a malignant being who traps human souls in the world of matter. In order to keep them subject to his power, and prevents them from realizing their true nature “
On the Origin of the World and The Hypostasis of the Archons.

Man was freed to know true nature, not kicked out because a sinner was created to be ransomed.

Tiger, 

The comment is appreciated, well said and thus worth repeating. May I say how fortunate you have been to been raised upon a tradition outside of the blinding strictures!

HG


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5803
 
Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Symonds acquires "false teeth." 

At the age of forty the emanations of his testicles become smaller, 
he begins to lose his hair and his teeth begin to decay. At forty- 
eight his masculine vigor is reduced or exhausted; wrinkles appear 
on his face and the hair on his temples turns white. At fifty-six the 
force of his liver deteriorates, his muscles can no longer function 
properly, his secretion of semen is exhausted, his vitality dimin- 
ishes, his testicles (kidneys) deteriorate, and his physical strength 
reaches its end. At sixty-four he loses his teeth and his hair."

- Nei Ching Su Wen
The Yellow Emperor's Classic on Oriental Medicine
- circa 2775 B.C.
more or less

 

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up

Kundalini Yoga - It's those damn Eastern Teachings again.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Shiva had not repeatedly alluded to her writings on this forum, I wouldn't assume that he would regard her as he does

Oh, I see I mis-guessed (mis-guest) my interpretation of "her." 

Alice Baileys works are interesting. They explain the inner workings of initiation in daily life. However, she apparently channeled this stuff and said to herself, "People will never understand this stuff, so I will explain it to them." As a result, her works are essentially incomprehensible ... except for two books: Here first book, Initiation Human and Solar, and her last book, The Rays and the Initiations (Part II only!).

These are the only texts I recommend for serious students. The first book gets into The Masters and their personas, which is the usual bullshit illusion, so one must approach this in an abstract mode.

The Externalization of The Hierarchy and A Treatise on White Magic are rather good, and not seriously muddled, So one could consider them after absorbing the basics.

These texts are all summed up in ONE BOOK, a compilation that was published by her students after her death called Ponder on This. This is the great starting and ending book that cuts through the bullshit. ONE BOOK to summarize her entire ball of wax.

Her ball explains the path of initiation as an interior, daily life process that Crowley never touched. She is the perfect Yin compliment to Crowley's Yang presentation.

I have a Ponder on This in pdf format, with Thelemic notes, edited by me, that I am happy to loan you, if you simply buzz me at notarajah@gmail.com and say "Send Ponder."

You will not get Ponder. You will get Consider This, my re-arranged title. The original, un-commented by me, text is no longer available online as it was not one of her originals. ALL of the originals are available, for free, without paying dues in advance, at ...

https://www.lucistrust.org/online_books/welcome_obooks_website

"The 24 Books of Esoteric Philosophy by Alice A. Bailey are made available with the permission of the Lucis Trust, which holds copyright. Permission is granted to view, copy and store the material and print pages for your own personal and non-commercial] use."

For DIRECT reference to the esoteric side of Christianity, the bast approach would be her shorter books, From Bethlehem to Calvary and The Reappearance of The Christ, which are not the usual approaches of fundamental Christianity.

All online. All free.

What else do you want?

This has been my scientific approach to Baileyism for the week. I can offer no further elucidation until seven days have gone past.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

But kind Mrs Bailey IS much more than some Christ-Friendly New Agey stuff

This is true. Self-verified.

 


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