Does anyone know if the CAOTO is still active anymore? Siebert doesn't seem to have any mentions on here.
An anthology of his writings came out about a year ago, I haven't read it yet, it's over 500 pages so it's a 'I need to sit at a desk and read this' kind of book.
I know Jason Miller is or was a member, I really wonder if it exists in a little enclave somewhere?
Siebert doesn't seem to have any mentions on here.
Alobar Greywalker (Bill Siebert) passed away some time ago.
https://zeroequalstwo.net/alobar-greywalker-has-celebrated-his-greater-feast/
I had some communication with the group years and years ago when I aspired to membership. Some nice communications from Alobar. Some not so nice communications from others.
I would be involved with the formation of a small Cultus with another individual who was aspiring to membership at the same time I was. This was exciting and, ultimately, disastrous, ending in bad feelings and rumors of an "Egregore" the group had lost control of. All those members have trafficked on this hallowed forum in the past.
I am sure you can easily reach out to individuals of interest via venues such as Facebook. As I recall, any Sovereign of the CAOTO could recognize another, who would then be welcomed as such. But I don't speak with authority or full knowledge in this matter. I would later become involved with the TOTO (now Ordo Typhonis) which is where my focus was driven in the first place. I had challenges contacting the TOTO at first and thus pursued "the next best thing," a group with individuals who were once involved with it (Alobar and others).
Things would continue to unfold in unforeseen directions over the years. But here I digress.
Good luck reaching out. I can't imagine it will too difficult to make contact.
Alobar Greywalker (Bill Siebert) passed away some time ago.
He died in 2020, from covid. I met him briefly in Jackson Square in New Orleans, where he was reading tarot. Using the Thoth deck, naturally. He seemed like a very nice man. He kind of looked like Santa Claus with purple hair.
At the risk of offending people here that I really respect and enjoy talking to, at least in an online context:
No I have not met 'Alobar' but by reading his magickal record at https://alobar.livejournal.com/
I don't really have a high opinion of the man. Many could say that about me of course.
I am just riffing on a stranger.
Has anyone here met him?
RE Covid. Is that died 'from covid' or died 'with covid' .... and then there's the old chestnut...Oh, they sealed most records and never did autopsies.
'covid' (always reminds me of crows.ie death and blackness) is the greatest gift the assholes that control this world ever planned or grasped hold of.
At any rate.
Just had to chime in at this weird nut of a thread.
At the risk of sounding stupid, I would really just aim for the purest A.:.A.:. lineage you can get to, if you want to 'attain', in Crowley's system.
After all, this is the AC website.
Grant is second in my book. He just adds some flavour to the soup.
Well more than flavour, he adds obviously his own thing, but then it gets slippery.
But then we all know that Grant loved slippery foods 🙂
If you don't want to 'attain' then...just dabble.
Most people that I met in person or on LAShTAL that just dabbled, are either dead or don't work or post anymore.
The occult is a hell of a drug. So are hard drugs. It's a shame.
Has anyone here met him?
I did mention that I had, briefly.
RE Covid. Is that died 'from covid' or died 'with covid' .... and then there's the old chestnut.
Good question. He was elderly and had some health problems, the virus could have done it or exacerbated existing issues.
Alobar was his legal name, he had it changed from Bill. The name was from the main character from Tom Robbins's book Jitterbug Perfume.
Just had to chime in at this weird nut of a thread.
It's not a "weird nut of a thread". It's just a thread. If you have such a low opinion of it, why bother to comment?
I never met Alobar Greywalker, though I did have some correspondence with him in the 1980s and the early 1990s when we were fellow members of the Typhonian O.T.O.
At the risk of sounding stupid, I would really just aim for the purest A.:.A.:. lineage you can get to, if you want to 'attain', in Crowley's system.
Not everybody wants to attain within "Crowley's system". I've only ever been interested in attainment, rather than attainment within a specific system. I have a great deal of respect for Crowley's work, though the work of Grant and of Spare has over the last fifty years been a bigger influence on me. Neither man had a system of attainment, and I've always been catholic: taking influences from a variety of sources, and catalyzing them through magical and mystical experience. I like Spare's phrase "I strayed into the path direct". Over the years I have worked increasingly within Advaita Vedanta, which for some reason Crowley disparaged in vitriolic terms in Magick without Tears.
After all, this is the AC website.
Yes, but the interest is not just in Crowley's work, but also in his sources, in people who were associated with him for a while, in people who have been influenced by him, and in the development of his work since his death. Since Greywalker was a member of the Typhonian O.T.O., and since he continued to be interested in Crowley, then seen in these terms I don't think that a thread concerning him is inappropriate.
Advaita Vedanta, which for some reason Crowley disparaged in vitriolic terms in Magick without Tears.
Without looking up the citation, I suspect the reason was that Advaita is One, whereas Crowley was 0=2. He saw himself a a foolish prophet with his, One, One, One ... So One became a target.
he continued to be interested in Crowley
No. This is not enough. I think all posts must be directly related to a quote, which must be posted in full (no links), written by Crowley, and not about Crowley. Surely, that will keep things to a narrow straight line, and all these distractions will disappear.
And so will most of the posters.
At the risk of offending people here that I really respect and enjoy talking to, at least in an online context:
No I have not met 'Alobar' but by reading his magickal record at
I don't really have a high opinion of the man. Many could say that about me of course.
Curious as to what made you feel this way. What turned you off?
When I first dropped in to Alobar's livejournal many years back, I was a bit taken aback. It was being presented as a “Magical Diary”-but seemed to be a series of ongoing notes about politics, money, dietary supplements and digestion. Not exactly what I had been led to understand a “Magical Diary” to be.
I would share words to the same effect with a member of the Horus-Maat Lodge who would reply: “Isn't it great? Alobar has made his very body into an experimental alchemical laboratory!”
This, as I recall, included descriptions of his feces and the effect he felt various dietary adjustments were having on his health.
In retrospect, he documented a lot of the same stuff Crowley would focus on in his own diaries.
It seemed to me that Alobar was living a bit “on the edge.” He talks a lot about money and bills and health issues and the weather as he goes down into town to set up his tarot table. I believe he may have alluded to himself as neuro-divergent or having Aspergers.
When I think back to his dedication to his livejournal, I wish he were still around. I would have appreciated his writing much more. My expectations and interests in others has changed and evolved over the years. This fellow was certainly one of our fellow human beings making his way through the world while marching to the beat of his own drum. He had an interesting beat going on.
I alluded to myself wanting to be a member of the COTO at one time. My magical and mystical aspirations have also changed since then. This being the case, I think I could have learned from and enjoyed Alobar's work in a much different and productive way from my present perspective.
At least his livejournal remains "live."
PS-Chris, I maintain my high opinion of you!
Without looking up the citation, I suspect the reason was that Advaita is One, whereas Crowley was 0=2. He saw himself a a foolish prophet with his, One, One, One ... So One became a target.
I think his aversion went deeper than that. The passage in Magick without Tears includes the statement that "I hate this doctrine so rabidly that I can hardly trust myself to present it fairly!" It's true that here and elsewhere he conflates Advaita with Monism, but all the same there's something deeper here. I'll post more of this in a thread devoted to the topic, to avoid the present thread becoming akin to an overloaded supermarked trolley veering this way and that, hopelessly out of control.
Posted by: @michael-staley
I've always been catholic: taking influences from a variety of sources, and catalyzing them through magical and mystical experience.
the interest is not just in Crowley's work, but also in his sources, in people who were associated with him for a while, in people who have been influenced by him, and in the development of his work since his death.
akin to an an overloaded supermarked trolley veering this way and that, hopelessly out of control.
It is a New World a New Aeon No ?
Behind the legally mandated religion up front;
with no purpose to propose or impose an orthodoxy of expression,
no rigid method or standardized dead letter script;
out in the bayous, and the refuge The Great Dismal Swamp;
the riotous blood rites and bacchanalian revelry with its out of control beats;
out of influence of the colonial christian god;
a paranormal world beyond the colloquial province,
emerges a heterogeneous creole of freedom and Liberation.
In out of the way abodes, out of sight from the customary habitual flock,
in remote regions, new visions and new pathways rise in the wake.
Hey you over there Hey La Bas open the roads
Eh Labas song New Orleans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwVkNM8KOw4
"I hate this doctrine so rabidly that I can hardly trust myself to present it fairly!"
Well, when you put it that way, by putting quotes from the horse's beast's pen, itself - it does appear to go deeper than a superficial, merely philosophical, anguished repulsion.
Here is my problem: I am barely familiar with the doctrine that arouses repulsion in violation of the Oath of a Philosophus 4=7, namely to obtain control of the attractions and repulsions of my own being [period = end quote]
This should be comforting to all of us, knowing that when we fall prey to attraction and repulsion, we can be encouraged by the fact that a Magus {Ip?] can be repulsed so easily by a simple philosophical doctrine that Wiki describes as ...
"The term Advaita (literally "non-secondness", but usually rendered as "nondualism", and often equated with monism) refers to the idea that Brahman alone is ultimately real, while the transient phenomenal world is an illusory appearance (maya) of Brahman.
I find nothing here to be repulsed about. I recommend that everyone assume Crowley's advice to be neurotic mumbling until proven or disproven by one's own experience - which is consistent with what Therion would want us to do.
he conflates Advaita with Monism
Along with Wikipedia. If one (a single person) is in a non-dual state [samadhi], then there is no question of "One," or "None," or any number at all [period]
It appears that "and often equated with monism" is an error in the Western Mind. "Often equated" means loosely interpreted by people who are in a dual state.
I'll post more of this in a thread devoted to the topic
Good.
... hopelessly out of control ..
It is a New World a New Aeon No ?
No. All is as it ever was. Don't concern yourself with change. Nobody's getting promoted or fired.
This incessant obsession with Aeons is an intellectually fabricated construction. In the clear state, which is not California, there is no distinction between this era and that epoch.
You know
Papa Labas is lord of the crossroads.
He is a trickster.
You can find him when you get there,
at the point between subject and object.
Where object presents itself to consciousness
as phenomenon.
This fellow was certainly one of our fellow human beings making his way through the world while marching to the beat of his own drum. He had an interesting beat going on.
I really like this interpretation. Regarding rhythm. I play drums and the heart also has a rhythm.
I have to do some more digging into this man's corpse err corpus of work but yes, all of us, all true seekers are odd motherfuckers. We all have some issues which is why we seek God ...whatever that is.
I am just glad I am still around after being into alchemy, and I have some ideas floating on my (corporate [egads!]) laptop which I mentioned in another thread but, for the now, it's always nice exchanging 1's and 0's with you . Your art is still in my home 🙂
edit to say
what turned me off, was the oddity.
Yeah I like weird shit, but as you said, when you write Magickal Diary, I want something more about the Work, not work.
BUT I feel I am also guilty in this aspect and my 'tutor' will avow, that um . Most of my Record is about dinner and sex and my work day and my dreams. so ..it is what it is?
So perhaps, it was a bit of projection on my part.
I have learnt in the last 2 or 3 years to really recognise deficiencies in my pysche.
Now fixing them is a whole other bag of worms.
The "Chthonic-Auranian OTO" came into being, as was told to me by one of its founders, Cliff Pollick, when he, Bill Siebert (Alobar) and Sam Webster, who were all friends, and had respectively either been expelled, and or had quit, the Caliphate or the Typhonian OTO's to which the idea of an order came into being, to which the name was inspired by a verse from Liber Tzaddi
My adepts stand upright; their head above the heavens, their feet below the hells.”
– “Liber Tzaddi,”
The 'order' simply served as a permission, gained from a mutual recognition of each other's own unique sovereign magical paths, which in essence speaks to recognition of what constitutes an 8=3 leap and life commitment to the great work. Basically that is it, as the "order" component of the "orientation" is found through a simple ritualistic group gesture, of one simply affirming one's sovereignty before at least two others who had made the same commitment, to which affirming the others was the basis.
I know that Cliff had been initiated by Grady in the OTO and had run afoul of the subsequent leadership relative to something printed in a local publication that was considered a "secret" but which Cliff found to be a form of restriction that basically fed ego trips while hurting aspirants to whom he felt should be shared.
Cliff was always gracious, back when i was first under the fever, sharing books from an impressive library in an extremely generous and trusting manner, what were relatively rare volumes, found in a working man's house in South Philadelphia. Cliff work in nursing was how he took care of "Malkuth", and he had worked as a medic in Vietnam, and whose magical number was the date he returned two the helicopter after picking up wounded and found three bullet holes in his jacket, and had not suffered a scratch!
I never asked Cliff about joining the CAOTO, where at a point I got the impression that asking would be redundant, but I certainly have thought about the essence of the gesture, and I so appreciate the friendship, even though it was infrequent, it was and is an affirmation; and where sharing some understanding of the tech in long conversations and some basic ritual work, provided a basis for my own ad hoc explorations...
Some stories involved some funny stories about Grady, or some of the going on's at Bill Seibert's "Math of the Chrystal Hum" an old farmhouse in upstate New York where Seibert concocted potent psylosybyn libations.
I know that there were strong connections with the circles in Ohio around Nema and others down in New Orleans involved in the voodun presentations.
Of course Sam Webster has written a brilliant and practical book on Tantric Thelema using Tibetan Buddhist tech as a structure towards diety worship of Ra Hoor khuit..
Cliff's path would lead to the Kuala practices of Sri Vidya, finding his teacher, guru in the person of Sri Amritanada Natha Saraswati, and in whose biography, The Goddess and the Guru, by Michael Bowden, is a touching story of Cliff's pilgrimage to Devipuram in India, that brought full circle something that had started after Vietnam, and before his interest in Thelema, and relative to a time of life threatening illness, seeking to fulfill certain quests, that did with grace unfold...to which when Cliff told me the story, after having survived another near death experience, he did relate that Guruji, trained as a nuclear physicist, liked to say "Do what you want" in a manner consistent with the yogic prescription of love under will.
to which the idea of an order came into being
I remember having had that one. Various images that appeared that day and night were snatched from the akashic records (the big library). The whole thing started with ID 666 (in the pit), then The Hell's Angels came (I kid you not - on Malkuth), and after the evening Star, the idea arose. It came true just a few months later - it was given, not constructed from various elements
Ten minutes ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnnlMkwtkI0