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Crowley and his discrepancies

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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

but you all get it, don't you?

If I tried to get it, you will be responsible for calling the Judge who will be considering my confinement.

However, your relatively simple summary (that synthesizes multiple scrolls of threads and booklets) brings hope into my heart, and I look forward to getting my The Horus Toy (TM) any day now.

 


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @shiva

I look forward to getting my The Horus Toy (TM) any day now.

@shiva Should be published soon. I'll let you in on a secret: according to Facebook I might be one of the lucky ones to receive it first! (It's Facebook, so not really secret) If it works on me, all of you haven't got a chance!


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RTC
 RTC
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@the_real_simon_iffShit! I just googled that the Randi challenge was terminated in 2015. Too bad...

Randi heard about The Horus Toy™ and panicked!


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Shiva
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

If it works on me, all of you haven't got a chance!

I gave up my chance a while ago. I don't need to get it first, but I'd take a look on a second or 23rd option. If the first guy to make it work uses it to rule the world, that's okay by me, as long as he (she?) doesn't come to eat me or steal my dogs.

Say, you wouldn't use it for [gasp] Mind control, would you? That'd be cheating ... we wouldn't know you were coming.

Posted by: @therealrtc

Randi heard about The Horus Toy™ and panicked!

Richard T., the Real, in serious mode I would like to say that in your near-annual departure, a consensus (of perhaps a minority) has arisen, amounting to orthodox heresy, that Mr. Crowley might have fiddled with, or perhaps misrepresented, a lot of things that were relative to the great Cairo Working of 1904, plus or minus at least 4 years in either direction. I'm sure it was all kicked off in 1904, down in Mexico where strange things happen to everyone, when he "discovered" peyote.

WellRead posted some obscure diary entries from that Mexican siesta, and sure enough, here was Perdurabo dwelling upon (or noting) all the unconnected dots that spell Thelema (in Greek). I have chosen this (overall) period to be known in my mid as Primordial Thelema.

Actually, it seems to start, sure enough, in 1904 Mexico, and it runs through 'til a year or five after The Book of Lies conspiracy (where AC & Reuss began to "breathe together."). After it all settled in (and he was on his way up in the OTO), his emphasis began to shift (from A.'.A.'. to OTO).

Anyway, I just want you to know that (almost) everyone is suspicious of the imp Crowley, undoubtedly for varying reasons, so you may find fertile ground here and there  Of course, there are a few skeptikals who will always be demanding proof. Pay no attention the them.

Please ... step right up. You can use my box ...

.

image

 


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @shiva

I'm sure it was all kicked off in 1904, down in Mexico [...]

WellRead posted some obscure diary entries from that Mexican siesta, and sure enough, here was Perdurabo dwelling upon (or noting) all the unconnected dots that spell Thelema (in Greek). [...]

Actually, it seems to start, sure enough, in 1904 Mexico, and it runs through 'til a year or five after The Book of Lies conspiracy

I'm not familiar with this - under what circumstances was it in Mexico and when exactly during 1904? (I thought he was in Mexico during 1900...)  Also (allowing for timekinks) TBoL was published in 1913, and TBotL had been published in The Equinox by then so how could the matter then "run through" to circa 1918?

Kinkily Discrepancily yours,

N Joy 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Mexico during 1900...

Correct. My typo. It's my brain disorder, you know.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

TBoL was published in 1913, and TBotL had been published in The Equinox by then so how could the matter then "run through" to circa 1918?

Yes, I know all that. I am basing my unsubstatial hypothesis on Crowley's apparent focus, not when anything was published. I believe he toyed around with it until that Magus state came upon him. The cornerstone, so to speak, was set forth in The Blue Equinox. Equally devoted to A.'.A.'. and OTO. After that came Cefalu, and after Sicily, the OTO took precedence over A.'.A.'.. In fact A.'.A.'., as an operating order began to fade away. Thelema was present back in some of the Equinoxes, and even 333, but it wasn't the main thrust.

 


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ignant666
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Posted by: @therealrtc

Randi heard about The Horus Toy™ and panicked!

Maybe, or it could be due to Randi dying. It also appears that the challenge, and the million bucks may still be live, but that they have changed the process for applying to get the $: https://web.randi.org/home/jref-status

But these guys have a quick'n'easy $250,000 just waiting for you to pick it up.

https://cfiig.org/250k-challenge/

The Center for Inquiry Investigations Group (CFIIG) at the Center for Inquiry-Los Angeles offers a $250,000 prize to anyone who can show, under scientific testing conditions, significant evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power. The CFIIG works with the applicant in designing the test protocol and defining the conditions under which a test will take place. CFIIG representatives will then administer the actual test. In most cases, the applicant will be asked to perform an informal demonstration of the claimed ability or phenomenon, which if successful will be followed by the formal test. The CFIIG conducts demonstrations and tests at CFI West in Los Angeles, California, in the San Francisco Bay area, or in special circumstances at one of our affiliates around the world.

Surely with the power of The Horus Toy™, it will be a simple matter for you to get that cash?

And probably others here, many of whom claim to have Powers, will want to arrange to collect their prizes as well.


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @shiva

It's my brain disorder, you know.

My sympathies!

Posted by: @shiva

Yes, I know all that. I am basing my unsubstantial hypothesis on Crowley's apparent focus, not when anything was published. I believe he toyed around with it until that Magus state came upon him.

The "Magus state" came on him from 1915 onwards, which I suppose in your reckoning is indeed between one and five years after TBOL.  

Posted by: @shiva

The cornerstone, so to speak, was set forth in The Blue Equinox. Equally devoted to A.'.A.'. and OTO.

In addition to being their "Official Organ" The Equinox was also the review of Scientific Illuminism (if not Primordial Thelema Pyrrhonic-Zoroastrianism).

Posted by: @shiva

After that came Cefalu, and after Sicily, the OTO took precedence over A.'.A.'.. In fact A.'.A.'., as an operating order began to fade away.

That was possibly because Theodor Reuss died in 1923 and AC decided to avail himself of the OHO-ship!?

Posted by: @shiva

In fact A.'.A.'., as an operating order began to fade away.

I would argue that the A.'.A.'. had begun to fade away before then - when he left England for foreign shores (i.e., America) I don't think he had any A.'.A.'. members abroad, so let's say after 1914? 

Does anyone else (dis)agree in the court of public opinion?

Posted by: @shiva

Thelema was present back in some of the Equinoxes, and even 333, but it wasn't the main thrust.

Actually, it seems to start, sure enough, in [1900] Mexico, and it runs through 'til a year or five after The Book of Lies conspiracy

I agree with the former statement.  Re the second, does anybody know when AC first used the description "Thelema" itself - was it in the text of AL or did it preceed that at any time (and if so when & where)?

N Joy


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Shiva
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

In addition to being their "Official Organ"

Please. There may be children reading this stuff.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

That was possibly because Theodor Reuss died in 1923 and AC decided to avail himself of the OHO-ship!?

Baphomet assumed OHO before Reuss died, claiming he was "ill" or "demented" or some degenerative term. Reuss fought back, expelled Crowley/BafometR, but the exertion was too great and he died. Then the other (unexpelled) Grand Master Kings ratified BafometR's OHO claim ... and he was in, for life (ad vitam?).

But those are just the tchnicalities. The point is that AC slowly turned his marketing efforts away from A.'.A.'. (a lineage of solos reaching for their Stars - no dues) to OTO (a vehicle for the promulgation of Thelema (group assembly - no "work" to be required - dues paid in advance). His last known (to me) written line was a footnote in his last letter to Germer - "The profess house system will not work. You must find some other way to bring in the new age." 

I appears as though AC took his spiritual eggs and put them in the temporal basket of OTO, then pushed that basket his entire life, only admitting that it wouldn't work at the very last end of his life, "pulling the plug," as it were.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

I would argue that the A.'.A.'. had begun to fade away before then -

I will not argue with your argument. A.'.A.'. started to fade away with Reuss knocking on his door.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

does anybody know when AC first used the description "Thelema" itself - was it in the text of AL or did it preceed that at any time (and if so when & where)?

A good question. When did the Greek word first pop up? Maybe we can inquire of WRWB, who looks for this type of thing ...

 


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Tiger
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Some spend time concentrating on the imp Crowley
others on the Magus Ipsissimus.
Journeying through the looking glass
changing forms
of the all self
reflection
in the mirror
bubble.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @tiger

bubble

Bubbles are now included on the Controlled Substances list. Please report yourself at your earliest convenience.

 


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hadgigegenraum
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@tiger

thanks for the nice gem...your poems are welcome


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @therealrtc

Randi heard about The Horus Toy™ and panicked!

Did we just have a rare sighting of the Magicole Hare? 

I will say that I have been looking forward to Richard's next book, presuming that he will, therein, throw off the hinting and offer an explanation of what has been deemed "The Horus Toy." This, I think, was duly adumbrated in "The Inauguration." I am not sure that what is revealed will be "new" and, perhaps, we will see that others have paved the path throughout time (whether Shamans or Pioneers in New Thought). 

But this is all speculation until a new text appears, the thread "Horus Toy" is created and RTC joins us once more.    


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RTC
 RTC
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@kidneyhawk -

Hare...  HARE!!!  The thrice-great be-flam-ed Word of Power self-glittering within my halo reads “Thrice-Great Magicole Hair.

Your Freudical lips reveal a darcus undercurrent of subliminal  ‘Associative Carota Syndrome’ of the type likely to cause, a century or so from now, people like myself to question the Revised, Corrected and Fully-Functional Law recently received by my thrice-great un-self.  Comes with a scouring-pad to scrape away stubborn Osirian debris and.... TADA... The Horus Toy™

On a more frivolous resonance – The dimension opened by Horus (as Crowley labelled an ongoing evolutionary process) permits an observer to... ‘step back,’ from the limitations of doing anything via a clunky physical form (akin to knitting whilst wearing gardening gloves).  For example... I say the light is green.  You say it is orange.  Entering the New Aeon dimension reveals the light is actually yellow. I see green due to an inherent blue component packaged with my physical form - Same with your red genetic filter.  Only on stepping back can we appreciate that two different and irreconcilable facts, or concepts (Christianity and Satanism), are slightly different flavours of the same cake.  Suddenly, Crowley’s words, ‘Let there be no difference made between...’ cease being obscure mystical allegories and manifest all over yer face, innit.

Not only does this new awareness make it easier for everyone to get along better with everyone else, it is 100% retro-functional with all metaphysical practices.  Whatever your preferred brand of supernatural shenanigans, opening the New Aeon tap will turbo-charge your performance and results.  The change will happen when a participant steps back and, finally, gets it – from the inside!  Triple-point bonus – An awareness that ‘no difference’ is a fact, is one step from dipping your toe into the universal state where all things actually exist as one thing...  Change in conformity with Will.

Austin Spare is the natural successor to Crowley. Ga    


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk
Did we just have a rare sighting of the Magicole Hare? 
As in it's Spring and loonies head to the forum like birds returning from migration?  
Posted by: @therealrtc

 

On a more frivolous resonance – The dimension opened by Horus (as Crowley labelled an ongoing evolutionary process) permits an observer to... ‘step back,’ from the limitations of doing anything via a clunky physical form (akin to knitting whilst wearing gardening gloves).

WOW!!  Amazing revelation.....not ....... as  Hindu sages have been saying that for centuries e.g.

 

When to a man who understands,
the Self has become all things,
what sorrow, what trouble can there be,
to him who beholds that unity?

— Isha Upanishad, Hymn 7
 
When was that written?  Probably 400 years B.C.
 
 
Posted by: @therealrtc

For example... I say the light is green.  You say it is orange.  Entering the New Aeon dimension reveals the light is a

Anyone else confused by this colour-blindness analogy?

 

Posted by: @therealrtc

Only on stepping back can we appreciate that two different and irreconcilable facts, or concepts (Christianity and Satanism), are slightly different flavours of the same cake.  Suddenly, Crowley’s words, ‘Let there be no difference made between...’ cease being obscure mystical allegories and manifest all over yer face, innit.

Crowley had a licence on that not - new Zen or  not -new Taoist concept?   Well, no.  

Posted by: @therealrtc

Not only does this new awareness make it easier for everyone to get along better with everyone else, it is 100% retro-functional with all metaphysical practices.  Whatever your preferred brand of supernatural shenanigans, opening the New Aeon tap will turbo-charge your performance and results.  The change will happen when a participant steps back and, finally, gets it – from the inside!  Triple-point bonus – An awareness that ‘no difference’ is a fact, is one step from dipping your toe into the universal state where all things actually exist as one thing...  Change in conformity with Will.

Austin Spare is the natural successor to Crowley. Ga    

 

Austin Spare, great artist but his philosophy is unintelligible rambling.  I can see why his writings  get you off.    

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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the_real_simon_iff
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@kidneyhawk. Yeah, I am really anxious to read it too. I mean, the claims are bigger and bolder than anything he ever did, and he must be aware that this is either the end or the start of his "career". Exciting (sort of)

Love=Law

Lutz


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @dom

Austin Spare, great artist but his philosophy is unintelligible rambling.

Far from it. It's true that his earlier writings lack the clarity of a writer such as Crowley; that he had a love of archaic terms, and his punctuation is eccentric. But his material is worth persisting with, because once grasped it is very rich. Personally I prefer his later work as presented in Zos Speaks!

Off-topic, but I have a great love for and high estimation of Spare, and did not wish this remark of yours to go unchallenged.

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @dom

Austin Spare, great artist but his philosophy is unintelligible rambling.

Far from it. It's true that his earlier writings lack the clarity of a writer such as Crowley; that he had a love of archaic terms, and his punctuation is eccentric. But his material is worth persisting with, because once grasped it is very rich. Personally I prefer his later work as presented in Zos Speaks!

Off-topic, but I have a great love for and high estimation of Spare, and did not wish this remark of yours to go unchallenged.

 

Feel free to quote some clear lucid straight talking lines from AOS,  I'm keen to see this strange phenomena.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @dom

Feel free to quote some clear lucid straight talking lines from AOS,  I'm keen to see this strange phenomena.

Since I have already conceded that Spare lacks the clarity of writers such as Crowley, I'm not sure why you challenge me to quote "some clear lucid straight talking lines from AOS"; odd.

I should imagine that when Richard Cole maintains that "Austin Spare is the natural successor to Crowley", he has in mind the harnessing of Spare's sigillisation techniques to sex magick.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @dom

Feel free to quote some clear lucid straight talking lines from AOS,  I'm keen to see this strange phenomena.

Since I have already conceded that Spare lacks the clarity of writers such as Crowley, I'm not sure why you challenge me to quote "some clear lucid straight talking lines from AOS"; odd.

I should imagine that when Richard Cole maintains that "Austin Spare is the natural successor to Crowley", he has in mind the harnessing of Spare's sigillisation techniques to sex magick.

"Feel free" isn't a challenge, I find it frustrating that AOS couldn't articulate himself properly in word.  In images yes he was excellent.     

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @dom

"Feel free" isn't a challenge, I find it frustrating that AOS couldn't articulate himself properly in word.  In images yes he was excellent.

Well yes, it would have been excellent if he was as articulate in writing as he was in his art. I still think, though, that it takes perseverence. The Book of Pleasure was largely incomprehensible to me for many years, before it started to open up. I think it's worth taking the trouble to unpick his writings. I also think that there's more common ground between Spare and Crowley than appears at first sight.


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RTC
 RTC
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@michael-staley -

he has in mind the harnessing of Spare's sigillisation techniques to sex magick” – BINGO!

@dom –

Feel free to quote some clear lucid straight talking lines from AOS” – With the utmost respect to Spare’s literary output... Fuck what he tried to say about a subject beyond explanation.  Just absorb the ‘life’ writhing in Spare’s art.  Imagery and concepts only experienced first-hand, in the moment, at a place utterly beyond rational interpretation.  Where’s Spare’s head was, there are no words.

For all Crowley’s alleged ‘mastery,’ and words, his brand can’t hold a candle to the ‘genius’ (or ‘capacity to inspire’) Spare generates with annoying frequency.  On this theme, @kidneyhawk is a natural successor to Spare.  It matters little how they ‘got in.’  It wouldn’t matter if neither wrote a single word, or spoke, ever - Evidence of their genius beams from every brushstroke, and that’s enough.  ‘Genius’ is the capacity to inspire.  True Will is the fruit of Inspiration, Genius its manifest harvest.

There really is nothing new under the sun, just incrementally better ways of doing it, and clearer insights into why we’re doing it.  This is Ouroboros, Hermetics, Evolution, and, as Crowley labelled it, The New Aeon of Horus. 

notameme2

     


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @therealrtc

@michael-staley -

he has in mind the harnessing of Spare's sigillisation techniques to sex magick” – BINGO!

   

BINGO!!  Well done Michael you're onto it!!    I'm being ironic.   I'd say most posters here view "sex magic" as a form of teenage sexual repression /sublimation. 

@therealrtc  What are you saying?   Are you here to promote the elusive Horus Toy........again?  You're not inspiring me at present (as in car salesmen usually don't "inspire" me, not that you're in that category) and what's with the attempt at buttering up kidneyhawk's ego?  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Wasn't The Horus Toy™ due for release by the end of 2020? What has delayed this? Why have you not used the power of The Horus Toy™ to overcome whatever lame excuses you will uses to explain not having released it?

When will you claim the $250,000 prize i linked to above?

Why do you imagine anyone will ever take you seriously again after last year's eLGMOR disaster, and your ongoing inability to produce the Pirie watermark evidence that you clam you had years and years ago? You are a standing joke around these parts.

 


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @ignant666

Wasn't The Horus Toy™ due for release by the end of 2020?

This thread is opening up into some interesting areas. There's probably still a thread or two where you can fulminate about the Horus Toy to your heart's content, whilst here we can continue to discuss inspiration.


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ignant666
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Michael: You may feel free to take RTC seriously; i won't be doing that.

He is delusional and/or a prolific liar. What is the point of discussion with him?


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Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

What has delayed this?

I think there were TWO MORE books due out in 2020 (after eLGMOR). But then RTC invoked the "other things interference" clause and he called for a postponement of the subsequent tomes (which were theoretically  to contain Proof and a Toy.

 


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @ignant666

Michael: You may feel free to take RTC seriously; i won't be doing that.

I didn't say, ignant, whether I took him seriously or not; just that the thread was moving into some interesting areas. Once I'm over my current frenzy of packaging & despatch, I shall be able to probe.


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RTC
 RTC
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@ignant666He is delusional and/or a prolific liar. What is the point of discussion with him?

Given the raison d'être of this site, I am compelled to paraphrase the words of Colonel Kurtz – Oh, the irony.  The irony.

@dom – “You're not inspiring me at present...”

Oh, yes I am.  ‘Curiosity’ is a precursor, as is your evident increase in sensory density (eloquently illustrated by the first paragraph of your post).  Just relax, and let the Horus Current do all the work. Mmmmm,

The proper Thelemic response to your Osirian defence posture is to bust an OZ cap in yer lardy ass and say ‘Man has the right to wax lyrical about the delights of massaging rare, sensual oils into the lush folds of @kidneyhawk almost perfectly balanced ego.  Mmmm.’  What’s your issue?  Back on planet Earth, praise where it is due. Speaking personally, I struggle to keep up with the 'stuff’ thrashing around in the art of @kidneyhawk. ‘That’ is Genius - The capacity to inspire.  A person under the influence of Inspiration cannot help but tend towards True Will and its product, the Genius which subsequently inspires others.  The specifics matter little, save that the reaction between observer and object sparks the inner-desire to reach higher.

On a theme -  Perhaps Crowley grasped the connection between New Aeons, global evolution and reproduction.  Whatever, he figured that a New Equinox (as he originally called his scheme) required a new form of Sex Magick (enter Hamid).  Crowley got his ‘connection,’ but erroneously ascribed the result to ‘what’ was done, rather than the singular mindset it generated.  In consequence, he never got back there.  Nonetheless, that single moment obsessed him for the remainder of his life.  The Cairo myth was his best means of describing something utterly beyond description.

Supernatural events are Nature’s way of stimulating our curiosity towards the next phase of evolution.  All supernatural phenomena operate in a conduit terminating where all minds meet at a singularity of global consciousness.  The advent of Horus, and the shifting of an evolutionary gear, opens this doorway... For ALL, precisely as stated by Crowley.  Ahhh, if only he’d listened to the ‘Abrogate are all words, rituals, dancing around in costumes and a wall full of worthless paper trophies,’ bit.

All Hail Horus

 

There are still no New Aeonic Emojis where I am. 

Genius

      


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David Dom Lemieux
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @dom

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I think you need a few early nights, dom; then you wouldn't keep nodding off.


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christibrany
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Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @dom

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I think you need a few early nights, dom; then you wouldn't keep nodding off.

It must be legal highs 😉 


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christibrany
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Posted by: @dom

As in it's Spring and loonies head to the forum like birds returning from migration?  

Where do you think the loon hides in between migrations to LAShTAL? 

In the library?

In the loony bin?

In a bird sanctuary?

In a public park? 


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christibrany
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Posted by: @therealrtc

The proper Thelemic response to your Osirian defence posture is to bust an OZ cap in yer lardy ass

I love when Brits use American slang. It's so . . . weird. 

Like when I had a Korean friend who spoke with a perfect Cockney accent due to studies. 

I keep telling you Richard that you have great graphic skills (IMHO) but you should stick to that. And not metaphysical analisation. 


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ignant666
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Posted by: @therealrtc

bust an OZ cap in yer lardy ass

Do you think he thinks this is a kind of hat?


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christibrany
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@ignant666

 

Naw I think he listens to gangsta rap and thinks hes hard.  As they say. 

 


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ignant666
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I really do not picture RTC listening to the gangsta rap, i see him as more of a classic rock and light classical fan. But i suppose he must be getting his [attempted] "hood" lingo from somewhere...

But my point in asking about "busting a cap" and hats, was: i suspect he does not realize he threatened to shoot david, with a manifesto.

"Don't bring a manifesto to a gun-fight" as they say (well, they don't really, but now they might).


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David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
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Posted by: @ignant666

I really do not picture RTC listening to the gangsta rap, i see him as more of a classic rock and light classical fan. But i suppose he must be getting his [attempted] "hood" lingo from somewhere...

 

American Netflix series?

 

RTC thinks I have a lardy ass, it's one of his little tricks i.e. mentalism.  I've noticed that amidst his word salad bullshit there are little random sleight-of-hand snipey insult-attempts, last year it was something about forum posters having Russian internet brides.   The latest trick is to claim that kidneyhawk is a great genius who gets what he's rambling on about.  He's eager for someone to ask about the toy. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6190
 
Posted by: @christibrany

In the loony bin?

Yes, of course. This [^] one.

Posted by: @christibrany

I love when Brits use American slang. It's so . . . weird. 

Don't forget the Hong Kongers. In the English-dubbed Kung Fu movies of ancient times, and Modern (Bruce Lee), they all talk like Chicago gangsters from the '20s and '30s. I had two Taiwanese brothers, both in an ancient Taoist family lineage, who carried the American gangster dialect.

See: The Manifesto at the OK Corral.

 


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RTC
 RTC
(@therealrtc)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 347
 

@dom & @ignant666 –  I subscribe to the Peter Grant school of diplomacy.  A picture may clarify your misconceptions regarding my misconceptions.  Incidentally, our motto is ‘Cake for AL, and All for Cake... and I never mentioned The Horus Toy™.  Mmmmm

OZ CAP sml

 

All Hail Horus

OZ Emoji

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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3651
 
Posted by: @therealrtc

 I subscribe to the Peter Grant school of diplomacy. 

So my classic rock type of guy guess not too far wrong.

However, the mention of Peter Green brings to mind an old American saying: "Never bring a cricket bat to a gun fight".


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elitemachinery
(@elitemachinery)
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Posts: 596
 
Posted by: @therealrtc

@dom & @ignant666 –  I subscribe to the Peter Grant school of diplomacy.  A picture may clarify your misconceptions regarding my misconceptions.  Incidentally, our motto is ‘Cake for AL, and All for Cake... and I never mentioned The Horus Toy™.  Mmmmm

OZ CAP sml

 

 @therealrtc speaking of Peter Grant of Led Zeppelin...are you the same Richard Cole who managed the Who and Led Zeppelin? If so,  according to Vice magazine you are still a badass:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/exmabk/led-zeppelins-road-manager-is-still-a-badass


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @elitemachinery

@therealrtc speaking of Peter Grant of Led Zeppelin...are you the same Richard Cole who managed the Who and Led Zeppelin? If so,  according to Vice magazine you are still a badass:

That would be really cool, but I am afraid we are talking about just one another disillusioned Ex-OTO jerk here... no judgment intended, if you are disillusioned, you are.

P.S. Or is it desillusioned?

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @elitemachinery

 @therealrtc speaking of Peter Grant of Led Zeppelin...are you the same Richard Cole who managed the Who and Led Zeppelin? If so,  according to Vice magazine you are still a badass:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/exmabk/led-zeppelins-road-manager-is-still-a-badass

😆 😆 

 

Cole grew up in postwar London and—like many other children of his time—became enamored with the rock 'n' roll music that had slowly seeped over the Atlantic in the late 50s.

In 1961, at age 15, he left school to begin working as a scaffolder in North London and immersing himself in the local mod scene

 

What of it RTC , where you a scaffolder and did you and your sharply dressed mates get loaded on uppers and give any greasers a good kicking down Brighton on Saturday afternoons?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3651
 

Well, of course out pal RTC does lack certain basic social skills.

But still, given the reverence towards Jimmy Page/Led Zep of our good host Paul, hard to imagine that the man about whom Jimmy said the following would show his face round these parts:

There's a book written by our former road manager, Richard Cole that has made me completely ill. I'm so mad about it that I can't even bring myself to read the whole thing. The two bits that I have read are so ridiculously false, that I'm sure if I read the rest I'd be able to sue Cole and the publishers. But it would be so painful to read that it wouldn't be worth it. [from wikipedia "Richard Cole" article]


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elitemachinery
(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 596
 

 

Posted by: @ignant666

Well, of course out pal RTC does lack certain basic social skills.

But still, given the reverence towards Jimmy Page/Led Zep of our good host Paul, hard to imagine that the man about whom Jimmy said the following would show his face round these parts:

here they are (Page/Cole) in 2018 at a book launch so he must of forgiven him? it's rock n roll folks...gotta keep the show on the road id guess:

"Led Zeppelin" By Led Zeppelin - Book Launch
LONDON, ENGLAND - SEPTEMBER 24: Jimmy Page (L) and Richard Cole attend the launch of "Led Zeppelin" by Led Zeppelin, the official illustrated book marking the 50th anniversary of their formation, at The National Portrait Gallery on September 24, 2018 in London, England. (Photo by David M. Benett/Dave Benett/Getty Images)

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/jimmy-page-and-richard-cole-attend-the-launch-of-led-zeppelin-by-led-picture-id1039508904?s=2048x2048

I thought Cole's identity was asked/adressed earler a few years ago but I guess not. I think we are dealing with a real life P.T. Barnum...for better or worse....RTC has always been cordial and helpful in my communcations with him...if he worked with the Who and Led Zep for all those years he must be good at what he did/does. There's a sucker born every minute!

another article on Cole:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ruthblatt/2014/09/06/the-lean-and-mean-led-zeppelin-organization/?sh=1b66f8b16be0

looks like the same man to me...

http://www.tightbutloose.co.uk/tbl-news/evenings-with-led-zeppelin-feedback-lz-news-tbl-archive-led-zeppelin-iii-and-lyceum-1969-coda-london-gig-national-album-day-danny-baker-dl-diary-blog-update/


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elitemachinery
(@elitemachinery)
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Posts: 596
 

Cole the road manager has been accused of making things up in books he has written much the same as our man @therealrtc

a few quotes:

For a start, like most stories in Cole's book (Stephen Davis's Led Zeppelin biography “Hammer Of The Gods,” of which Led Zeppelin road manager Richard Cole was the principal source), it was a mish-mash of several stories all put together, usually with the wrong endings and making us look miserable bastards rather than the funsters that we were. I saw Richard after that book, and he'd cleaned up and said he did it for the money. I went OK, because I knew him before the band – he used to drive the van for Herbie Goins and The Night-Timers with whom I played with John McLaughlin – so we made our peace. And then another book came out, “Stairway To Heaven,” which made Bonzo look like such a monster. I've never spoken to him again.
-- John Paul Jones, Mojo, 2007

[Those books are] totally inaccurate, and [Richard Cole is] the sort of person who ought to know better, considering he's been in AA. He went into AA as a chronic alcoholic and came out a chronic liar. And apart from that, he just makes up stories which are totally untrue and which I'm extremely furious about. You'd have thought he'd have learned his lesson the first time round, but it's amazing what people do for a buck, isn't it?
-- Jimmy Page, Mojo, 1994

With "Hammer Of The Gods,” it was compilation of Richard Cole's clearer moments of recollection in between smack and God knows what else he was doing. But a lot of what he remembered about Zeppelin wasn't about Zeppelin at all. A lot of his recollections were confused with his hazy memories from when he was with Vanilla Fudge and the Young Rascals and Hendrix. Richard just possesses an inherent bitterness because he was in a constant position of absorbing and reflecting glory without ever being given the reins of authority because he was always second in command to Peter Grant. So when it all ended he decided to get his own back on a bunch of guys who were just shambling their way through the universe. It's sad, in a way...It's all crap, that Devil stuff and all the other sordid stories that were going around at the time, but the less you said to people, the more they'd speculate. The only way to let people know where you're coming from is to talk to the press, and we never said **** all to anybody.
-- Robert Plant, Q, 1988

The mood of “Hammer Of The Gods” is grossly deceptive because I would say that about 97 percent of the time over a 12 year period it was maximum smiles. We held together and we had a great time, and without affecting anybody else and without becoming sadistic morons. Unfortunately, the more you contradict, the more you get stuck into denying things and setting stories right, then you’re a party to it, you’re prey to these people. Now I look at it with scorn. I find it funny that people should have waited so long until the heat’s gone and the book can’t sell to lie so furiously, to paint a picture that’s grayer than it was blue.

(Author Stephen Davis) did a lot of investigations with a guy who used to work with Led Zeppelin, Richard Cole, who, over the years, had shown deep frustration at not being in a position to have any authority at all. He was tour manager, and he had a problem which could have been easily solved if he’d been given something intelligent to do rather than check the hotels, and I think it embittered him greatly. He became progressively unreliable and, sadly, became a millstone around the neck of the group.

These stories would filter out from girls who’d supposedly been in my room when in fact they’d been in his. That sort of atmosphere was being created, and we were quite tired of it. So eventually we relieved him of his position … And in the meantime he got paid a lot of money for talking crap. A lot of the time he wasn’t completely well. And so his view of things was permanently distorted one way or another.

Jimmy played his games with all the Crowley stuff, but none of them with a great deal of seriousness and through his own choice he never really tried to put the story straight. Now maybe he’s fully aware of the fact that it’s gone on a little longer that it needed to. If you’ve heard nothing from the actual individuals for so long, then anything’s possible. It was the fun element: Pagey liked the idea of being considered a man of mystery. He got some kind of enjoyment out of people having the wrong impression of him. He’s a very meek guy, shy to the point where sometimes it’s uncomfortable. But he let it all go on; and it’s his choice whether it all continues. It’s not up to me to start saying the guy plays cricket.
-- Robert Plant, New Musical Express, 1985


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posts: 1935
 
Posted by: @ignant666
 
But it would be so painful to read that it wouldn't be worth it. [from wikipedia "Richard Cole" article]

 

You mean Page read eLGMOR years ahead?

Anyway, as I said, it would be "kinda" cool, but they are not the same. And if I remember correctly "our" Cole has a totally different "real" name anyway. But I won't tell. It would fuck up the carrot anagrams.

Love=Law

Lutz


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RTC
 RTC
(@therealrtc)
Member
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Posts: 347
 

@dom, @ignant666 & @elitemachinery –  “It’s an unfortunate congenital Cole family trait, like rhetorical Tourette’s.”  Thus spake “the greatest thief of American black music who ever walked the Earth(H. Simpson), whilst shamelessly blagging another celeb-freebie.  Jeez, he’ll be claiming that Taurus didn’t beat him to heaven’s spiritual elevator, next...

Jim Jam B Garden

@the_real_simon_iff – “... disillusioned Ex-OTO jerk.”  Oh, Lutz, I love it when you project dirty on me. Mmmmmm.

... and the topic of this thread is...


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David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
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Posts: 3205
 
Posted by: @therealrtc

 

... and the topic of this thread is...

I don't know what happened, Ignant666 seemed to think your musical tastes build up some sort of psychological profile. Elitemachinery was convinced that The Beatles were making the signs of the elements on the HELP album and he thinks you were an ex-mod/scaffolder/roadie. 

 

I'm a fan of straight answers.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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