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Crowley and his discrepancies

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elitemachinery
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Posted by: @therealrtc

@dom, @ignant666 & @elitemachinery –  “It’s an unfortunate congenital Cole family trait, like rhetorical Tourette’s.”  Thus spake “the greatest thief of American black music who ever walked the Earth(H. Simpson), whilst shamelessly blagging another celeb-freebie.  Jeez, he’ll be claiming that Taurus didn’t beat him to heaven’s spiritual elevator, next...

Jim Jam B Garden

@the_real_simon_iff – “... disillusioned Ex-OTO jerk.”  Oh, Lutz, I love it when you project dirty on me. Mmmmmm.

... and the topic of this thread is...

Please clearly confirm or deny that you are the same Richard Cole who was the tour manager for Led Zeppelin and many other bands and wrote the book, "Stairway To Heaven - Led Zeppelin Uncencored"

https://www.amazon.com/Stairway-Heaven-Led-Zeppelin-Uncensored/dp/0060938374

You "outed" yourself when u mentioned Peter Grant Led Zeppelin's business manager who toured with Richard Cole and the band for many years. You are a legend in spite of yourself. Come on now, fess up!

As for Randy California and the song Taurus. Randy was in way over his head:

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-01-09-me-16985-story.html

IMHO a note for note analysis proves Page stole nothing. He was simply inspired by the track which has similar pacing and instrumentation. All artists do this they borrow ideas chords rhythms and inspire one another. As for the black artists those nicks were more obvious and settled in courts for large sums of cash so no one can deny them.

 


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elitemachinery
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Posted by: @therealrtc

 I subscribe to the Peter Grant school of diplomacy. 

Richard Cole spent many years working under the tutelage and authority of business manager Peter Grant as tour manager for Led Zeppelin. This same Richard Cole was born January 2, 1945 and is a Capricorn.

Capricorn's work best when ruled by a strong fist, something Peter Grant was known for. But without this structure and authority they can become pranksters bent on wreaking havoc just for the fun of it.

Is @therealrtc refrencing his many years working with Peter Grant? or simply baiting us? I suspect @lashtal has long known the true identity of our bogus prankster. And i personally think the answer to this riddle is historically relevant to Aleister Crowley and @therealrtc 's very public and published criticism of AC.

more photos of Led Zep's Richard Cole with Jimmy Page and Peter Grant...one in which Cole appears to be in the act of pulling out his willie...a prankster indeed!

images (5)
images (3)
images (4)
images (6)
images (7)

 

Posted by: @dom

I'm a fan of straight answers.

I'm not going to hold my breath but enquiring minds would like to know if Richard T. Cole author of Liber L. vel Bogus is a thinly veiled disguise belonging to Richard Cole of Led Zep fame.

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @elitemachinery
Posted by: @dom

I'm a fan of straight answers.

I'm not going to hold my breath but enquiring minds would like to know if Richard T. Cole author of Liber L. vel Bogus is a thinly veiled disguise belonging to Richard Cole of Led Zep fame.

 

You'd be better off waiting for OJ to 'fess up or waiting for Israel to give the land that was taken during the 6 Day War back to the Arabs.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @therealrtc

@the_real_simon_iff – “... disillusioned Ex-OTO jerk.”  Oh, Lutz, I love it when you project dirty on me. Mmmmmm.

I just wanted to point out that I wrote "if I remember correctly" about the name but I see you only mentioned the ex-OTO thingie. Anyway, I think I have that info somewhere in our old email correspondence. Let's just say, after a year of projecting ME into some special guest suite at Boleskine (because I once found some K instances) it is funny to read this from someone who basically started his career with "dirty" William Breeze photo fakes.

Love=Law

Lutz


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the_real_simon_iff
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grafik

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Horemakhet
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RTC is amusing. To say that he is RC of Led Zep fame is going down the wrong track. Having dipped into this site for a long time I can say that it would have come up already if they were the same person. Michael Staley knows RTC personally & has mentioned this several times in the past. Paul, the owner of this site, is a massive fan of Led Zep & if RTC was RC we would have an interview by now.


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the_real_simon_iff
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How about some voice comparison, @elitemachinery ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfnjcJ6kPWU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3FkKBtw3os

Love=Law

Lutz


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @horemakhet

Michael Staley knows RTC personally & has mentioned this several times in the past.

We used to correspond by email a fari bit, ten or fifteen years ago. He supplied me with a lot of interesting archive material, and came up with a composite image of Gurdjieff and Crowley which became the frontispiece to David Hall's Beelzebub & the Beast. I never met him though (at least, not knowingly) and wouldn't claim to know him personally.


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @michael-staley

I never met him though (at least, not knowingly) and wouldn't claim to know him personally.

So that's cleared up. Anybody have been present at the "Save the Abbey" day at Treadwell's in 2012 where he presented (see the first youtube video in my last post), which is a reproduction of the real thing? At least it sounds like he has been there "live" in the description to the video on his very own "New Aeon" channel.

Love=Law

Lutz


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elitemachinery
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff
grafik

no birth year or photo or clear identifying info ...and he denies he is the other Richard Cole before being asked. Why? Are they the same age? there are many many richard cole...why deny it before being asked? i remain unconvinced these are two different people... the behavior patterns are too similar....both are authors who make up grand stories and piss people off...both with Crowley connections...but of course i may be wrong. im 56 and i always got the impression Cole was about 20 years my senior. He seems to like the attention regardless...

the voice in the two youtube videos sound similar but are 20 years apart....why is richard t cole so camera shy?


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RTC
 RTC
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@elitemachinery – I deeply resemble those remarks.

why is richard t cole so camera shy?”  - You are kidding, right?

@michael-staleywouldn't claim to know him personally” - Oh, Michael, I can’t believe you’ve forgotten (repressed?) our TV show.  We did five series!  You were ‘The Typhonator.’  We were contenders...

Motivator (sml)

@the_real_simon_iff – Am I alone in finding this obsessive fixation a tad creepy?  Now, if you will excuse me, I have a reunion tour to arrange... another book to write to give Jimmy something to wail-on... and twenty-thousand items of assorted underwear to sort, wash and get on ebay before Grant’s ghost arrives to kick the crap out of me again....

 

Coleacus sml

  


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @elitemachinery

no birth year or photo or clear identifying info ...and he denies he is the other Richard Cole before being asked. Why? Are they the same age? there are many many richard cole...w

Yeah I guess a would-be 2:1 Hons degree industrial chemist could've done a bit of scaffolding in his younger days....or maybe that was a wasted degree and he got sucked into being a Zep roadie or whatever it was.    

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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hadgigegenraum
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I suppose at this point in this thread called 'Crowley and his discrepancies' flaming out into what it has...(Oh wait it was an announcement as concerns what I think is an important thesis, Liber L vel Bogus, by a Richards Cole)... perhaps the relevant question might not be....was John Bonham murdered or just plain negligent suicide on the job with friends?

Apparently forensics is still looking for a said "Horus Toy", perhaps resembling a Norse hammer of some more ancient provenance as a possible lead in sorting out still outstanding insurance claims....

It is understood by all that the great drummer was hammered to death

 

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Can we get back to the subject of scaffolding?  Crowley would've made  a good scaffolder, he had no fear of heights being a mountaineer and all. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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elitemachinery
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@therealrtc your response was about what i expected...vague and reveling in the attention and confusion...how about u tell us your birth date and year and provide a recent photo?

Richard T. Cole also produced a movie called:

Aleister Crowley - Legend of the Beast (2013)

trailer:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=0l-biwANeFs

his imdb profile doesnt reveal much:

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm5574455/

no easy task producing a movie..

@dom resumes are more easily faked than imdb credits...but his referring to Peter Grant's diplomacy (he had none) has me suspicious....who the hell knows..


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @therealrtc

@the_real_simon_iff – Am I alone in finding this obsessive fixation a tad creepy? 

You seem to enjoy it but what are you talking about? As a German Black Sabbath guy I don't even get all those Grant and Cole connections. Nor was it my idea to "identify" you. I am as always - as you very well know - only helpful to others with stuff.

Judging from all the crap you published so far (especially recently) I totally understand the urge to remain anonymous.

Love=Law

Lutz


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Posted by: @dom

the subject of scaffolding? 

Here is a picture i am sure you will enjoy, of a mountain with scaffolding:

image

Why do you want to talk about scaffolding again?

Our own RTC is not the Led Zep road-manager Richard Cole.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Question Posted by: @ignant666

Why do you want to talk about scaffolding again?

Answer;

 
Posted by: @ignant666

 

Our own RTC is not the Led Zep road-manager Richard Cole.

 

Yeah I know, for a start there's probably a big age gap between Cole and Cole but  Michael has got his teeth into the theory that they are one and the same so the thread has gone off on a tangent....  so what are we talking about, anything?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @dom

....  so what are we talking about, anything?

The subject was The Discrepancies of Aleister. RTC offers to expose multiple discrepancies Readers are trying to discover The Discrepancies of RTC. It's all related and all on-topic, sort of.

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

As a German Black Sabbath guy I

 

You're in Germany?  Where did you grow up? 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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elitemachinery
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Posted by: @herupakraath

After considering some of points raised in the accusations made on the webpage that promotes R.T. Cole's forthcoming book, Liber AL vel Bogus, I created a blog entry that analyzes some of the points made on the page:

http://thelima.org/blog1/2013/02/17/liber-l-vel-bogus/

This is an old thread. The above quote is from 2013 earlier in the tread and may be the first time Bogus was mentioned on Lashtal. Scaffolding and Black Sabbath are clearly off topic. RTC and his Bogus claims against AC are not.

Given his history of sock puppetry, and his over confidence and buffoonery, lack of facts, and unwillingness to unmask himself after having written several Crowley books, I think it could be that Richard T. Cole is a contructed (not real) identity. His over confidence is that of an anonymous troll. It's not enough to know that he isn't Richard Cole of Led Zep fame (if that's true) i'd like to know who the hell he 'is.'

Now we don't have to do continue this here, but i think it's safe to asume that this Wizard of OZ is not who we think he is (or isnt)...and has been playing us all from behind a curtain of anonymity...and that this man may be getting on in the years as his writing and posts resemble those of a man descending deeper into alcoholism and senility.


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elitemachinery
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Posted by: @Anonymous

I just found this upcoming book and thought it may be of interest to some of you here.

http://www.quicksilver.uk.com/RTC/bogus.htm

RT Cole claims that this book will be of monumental significance to anyone interested in A.C. and Thelema.
He says Crowley fabricated the events surrounding the reception of Liber AL to secure his position as 'Prophet of the New Aeon'.

Let's face it, it wouldn't be the last time Crowley "fiddled with the books", as it were, to make things "fit"; such as the Book of Lies - publishing of OTO central secret - publication date discrepancy - to secure his position as Prophet of the OTO.

It will be very interesting to read this forthcoming book to see what Cole has to say on the matter.

In my opinion, the whole 'Equinox of the Gods' scenario has always smacked of something just alittle bit far-fetched.
This is certainly not to say that I dismiss Liber AL, or his teachings/practices, etc. (quite the contrary in that regard).
In fact, I hold Liber AL in the highest regard as a remarkably beautiful example of human expression in it's own right.

Although I greatly admire Crowley for his many, many achievements and the invaluable spiritual insights that he gave to humanity, I can't help thinking that he was an extremely dubious character, in terms of his almost maniacal drive to be "The Chosen One".

Did he successfully cross the Abyss and truly control that most insidious entity - the Ego?

Any opinions/insights?

For anyone wishing to continue this thread and remain 'on topic' above is the threads original post in its entirety. 


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elitemachinery
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Posted by: @michael-staley

Crowley was vague about many aspects of the reception of The Book of the Law, such as the precise location. His diary for this period is skimpy and obscure. He had no explanation for Rose being able to supply missing words and to rewrite parts, and freely admitted as such in The Equinox of the Gods. However, until fabrication can be demonstrated, I'm happy to accept his account, enigmatic though it is.

There have been several forthcoming "gotcha" episodes over the years that were supposed to be about to expose Crowley's account as fabrication, but didn't in the event amount to much. At one time, for instance, there was supposed to be a list of passengers on a boat sailing from Egypt prior to the reception dates. Then again, someone was going to demonstrate that the paper on which The Book of the Law was written couldn't possibly have existed at the time. We'll just have to wait and see what Richard Cole comes up with this time.

Personally I've never been that interested in Crowley's position as Prophet of the New Aeon, and if it could be demonstrated that the account of the reception of The Book of the Law was a fabrication, it wouldn't bother me that much.

I think Michael Staley said it best in the second post of this thread way back in 2013. Would I be correct in assuming that this thread was originally started by the Carrot Childe sock puppet account of RT Cole and that this account has now been demoted to 'anonymous'? Or is the Carrot Childe account and his history of posts still listed by name in the forums?


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @dom
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

As a German Black Sabbath guy I

 

You're in Germany?  Where did you grow up? 

I grew up in Erlangen, that's in Northern Bavaria near Nuremburg. I have been living and working for the last 33 years in Munich.

Love=Law

Lutz

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

 

I grew up in Erlangen, that's in Northern Bavaria near Nuremburg. I have been living and working for the last 33 years in Munich.

Love=Law

Lutz

 

The Catholic Conservative south eh?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @dom

The Catholic Conservative south eh?

Yeah, I am just here to save your souls.

Or is it the Bavarian Illuminati?

Love=Law

Lutz


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ignant666
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Posted by: @elitemachinery

Would I be correct in assuming that this thread was originally started by the Carrot Childe sock puppet account of RT Cole and that this account has now been demoted to 'anonymous'?

I think this is wrong. The early posts in the thread have various folks responding to posts by "morphon" who appears to be the now-anonymous OP. I don't recall this person. But he/she does not seem to be a big fan/partisan of Cole/Bogus, merely a mentioner of him/it, so i don't think morphon was an RTC sock-puppet.

It is unfortunate that folks who get banned or delete their accounts are sometimes converted to "Anonymous" accounts, but one can often figure out who it was by looking for named quotes in replies to the Anonymous posts.

 


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wellreadwellbred
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JJB: "does anybody know when AC first used the description "Thelema" itself - was it in the text of AL or did it preceed that at any time (and if so when & where)?"

 

"... The word of the Law is Thelema or will. It is essential to understand that in Thelema, the concept of will is used in a much more specified sense than how the word is normally used in general society. In Thelema, the word Will (often capitalized) pertains to what one may think of as the "higher will". ..."  (Source: "Law of Thelema From Thelemapedia" - - - http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Law_of_Thelema )

As AC's use of the word Thelema is his synonym for the expression "higher will" used in the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn which he joined in 1898, he by implication used said expression - pertaining to what he later described as Thelema in his The Book of the Law - from 1898 or 1899 (as he joined this Order late in 1898). 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

he by implication used said expressio

"By implication" is not sufficient in this case. JJB specifically asked for the first usage by AC of the word "Thelema." Since Rabble-eyes used it (Theleme, did he spell it?) much earlier than AC, he (AC) must have used it ... somewhere. Your mission, should you foolishly choose to accept it, is to find that first somewhere (somewhen).

 


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wellreadwellbred
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As already stated by me in this thread: "As AC's use of the word Thelema is his synonym for the expression "higher will" used in the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn which he joined in 1898, he by implication used said expression - pertaining to what he later described as Thelema in his The Book of the Law - from 1898 or 1899 (as he joined this Order late in 1898). "

That is, or, this means, AC in his initiatory working[-s] in the Golden Dawn, using an expression (= "higher will"), in all but the name,  synonymous with what he later referred to as Thelema, in the system derived from his workings within the timespan 1900 - 1909 ( = his The Vision and the Voice or Book 418, and his The Book of the Law or Book 220 (220 representing The Tree of Life (10 numbers times 22 paths), and the number of verses of this book (= AC's The Book of the Law) in typescript). 


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wellreadwellbred
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Shiva: "Your mission, should you foolishly choose to accept it, is to find that first somewhere (somewhen)."

 

By the way, AC's diaries, what timespan, or timespans, do they cover??

 

In Tobias Churton's book Aleister Crowley in America: Art, Espionage, and Sex Magick in the New World, there is mention of Crowley's 'Early Diaries'. What timespan, or timespans, do Crowley's 'Early Diaries' cover??


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @shiva

JJB specifically asked for the first usage by AC of the word "Thelema." Since Rabble-eyes used it (Theleme, did he spell it?) much earlier than AC, he (AC) must have used it ... somewhere. Your mission, should you foolishly choose to accept it, is to find that first somewhere (somewhen).

I am not aware of AC using the term "Thelema" before Liber AL, and even then I think It took 2 years or so before he really used it.

He might have used it before when taking a taxi to the famous "Abbaye de Thelème" restaurant in Paris, founded in the late 1880s (I think) where all the artists and literati went out, and just across the famous "Le rat mort". Unconceivable that he wouldn't have known about it.

grafik

 Love=Law

Lutz


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

By the way, AC's diaries, what timespan, or timespans, do they cover??

That depends on how you define "early". But as far as I know AC wrote regular diaries from 1898 on. I have copies of his diaries from 1900 to 1902 (not complete of course) and there is no reason why he wouldn't have one for every year. So if you mean 1898-1904 by "early", I am sure these exist.

Love=Law

Lutz


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Shiva
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

using an expression (= "higher will"), in all but the name,  synonymous with what he later referred to as Thelema

You have revealed the concept ... but not the Word. We are looking for the word, Thelema, not the concept it is based upon. The concept is older than the G.D. ...

"Thy Kingdom come, thy Will is done."

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

By the way, AC's diaries, what timespan, or timespans, do they cover??

Is this a rhetorical question, or are you actually asking me? If you are asking me, the answer is, "I dunno."

 


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Shiva: "Your mission, should you foolishly choose to accept it, is to find that first somewhere (somewhen)."

Just being curious here, @wellreadwellbred, when is the first instance of "Thelema" (the exact phrase) you have found so far? While it is clear that AC considered publishing BOTL as early as early 1906, nothing came of it. And while Fuller had access to BOTL in early 1906 (and the diaries) he doesn't even mention it in "The Star in the West". The earliest *public* appearance of anything referring to the Cairo Working is as far as I know the inclusion of the Stele of Revealing in "Konx Om Pax" in late 1906, published early 1907. What have you found? When became Crowleyanity Thelema? Moreover, when Rose testified that AC was the inventor of a religion (during her divorce case), did she mean Thelema? I mean, she contributed to the BOTL obviously....

Love=Law

Lutz


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the_real_simon_iff
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And @therealrtc, what is your take on Rose's role? I know that you have the theory that AC could only really begin with his Thelema thing when he had Rose out of the way, because she knew "the truth". First by divorce, later by having her admitted to a mental hospital. Which religion did she allude to in the divorce trials (it was the one big thing every newspaper agreed on, that he HAD invented a religion)? Thelema already? Or simple Crowleyanity? How did he manage to have her made corrections in her own hand to Liber AL? Any theory about that?

Love=Law

Lutz


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RuneLogIX
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@the_real_simon_iff you didn't ask me, but my personal opinion, is that AC smoked hashish in the Cairo morning after getting the translation of the Stele from the museum with an idea to summon Ankh-af-na-khonsu in a vain and ultimately shortsighted effort to take over the exoteric structure of the Golden Dawn and that he made up the rest for public consumption including the bits about Rose which read like pulp fiction. That doesn't detract from the value it has for me nor do I think the text is personally wedded his intent in receiving or writing it although there appears to be some elements of wish fulfillment fantasy just to keep his pen flowing. For me it serves as a hadith and I personally believe that the continuous revelation of the gods will be made, tested, and accepted by mankind over time.

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


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the_real_simon_iff
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@runelogix

What do you mean by pulp fiction? That it is not Rose's writing in the manuscript? That she wasn't involved at all? I get what you mean but I don't get the Rose thing.

Anyway, good to hear from you. Weren't you the one who was convinced that the plague would have shot us into some kind of Mad Max afterworld by now and into total anarchy? Maybe I mix you up with someone, so sorry in advance.

Love=Law

Lutz


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RuneLogIX
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

@runelogix

What do you mean by pulp fiction? That it is not Rose's writing in the manuscript? That she wasn't involved at all? I get what you mean but I don't get the Rose thing.

I wasn't there so I don't know. I still go with "completely made up narrative."

 

Anyway, good to hear from you. Weren't you the one who was convinced that the plague would have shot us into some kind of Mad Max afterworld by now and into total anarchy? Maybe I mix you up with someone, so sorry in advance.

You mean the 2020 serious flu? Biggest nothing burger of the year.

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


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ignant666
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Posted by: @runelogix

the 2020 serious flu? Biggest nothing burger of the year.

Heading towards three million dead around the world, and 545,000 dead in the USA? Some "nothing burger"!!

And yes, @the_real_simon_iff, he is the math-challenged person who prophesied that there would be severe food shortages, because China would buy all the food, and that the US would collapse into food riots, by mid-summer last year.

And a bunch of other predictions, every single one of which was also dead fucking wrong.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @runelogix

Anyway, good to hear from you. Weren't you the one who was convinced that the plague would have shot us into some kind of Mad Max afterworld by now and into total anarchy? Maybe I mix you up with someone, so sorry in advance.

You mean the 2020 serious flu? Biggest nothing burger of the year.

So you're going for the 'dying people get flu anyway' angle?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @runelogix

You mean the 2020 serious flu? Biggest nothing burger of the year.

How to keep your face (or wish to do):

Pandemic! America will collapse!

Pandemic actually is no pandemic! See? I told you so! Still America would collapse in a real pandemic!

Love=Law

Lutz


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RTC
 RTC
(@therealrtc)
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@the_real_simon_iff - “... what is your take on Rose's role?” – As with all other discrepancies, the Rose glitch vanishes when considered with reference to the alternate timeline mapped-out in Bogus.

Keeping this simple...

What part did Rose play in the alleged 1904 Cairo announcement (20 letters)?  Answer - None!
What part did Rose play in the two sets of 1907 galley proofs? Answer - None!
What part did Rose play in the 1909/10 Holy Books? Answer - None!
By her own (divorce) testimony, what part did Rose play? Answer – None (uncontested by Crowley)! 

Rose only popped out of Crowley’s hat after her shock therapy kicked-in and Jones had fled down the Looking Glass.  He manufactured a functional peg, up-cycled from a broken wife.

After the original plan fell apart, Crowley modified his construct to incorporate the Rose components – Incidentally, the seed of Rose as intermediary was probably sown with the ‘bat’ incident described in Confessions.  First actual mention of Rose is the (OS23) post-October 1907  “How Roes Knew RHK.” – Written three-and-a-half years after the alleged event (!!!) and in a notebook demonstrably laden with serious issues.

As for the manuscript issue – I’d suggest that Rose and Crowley were ‘rehearsing.’  She played Aiwass, dictating from a typescript, as Crowley frantically scribbled.  Afterwards, whilst Crowley rolls a joint, Rose compares the two documents and corrects his errors, with an encouraging “Not bad, dear, another couple of goes and you’ll have it smack-on.”  However, for whatever reasons, probably pressure from Jones, Crowley runs out of wriggle room and retrieves his best effort (probably of several), ink still wet, from a ski-mitten.

@ignant666 – I will note that the “predictions” glimpsed by Crowley, and clarified by the Thrice-Great Magicole Hair, are all evolving in perfect accordance with Crowley’s handful of genuinely inspired utterances.  Horus is happening. 

COVID-19 is a prime agent of Horus. It serves as an efficient accelerant of global change and reform inherent with the birth of a New Aeon.

All Hail Horus.


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @therealrtc

As for the manuscript issue – I’d suggest that Rose and Crowley were ‘rehearsing.’  She played Aiwass, dictating from a typescript, as Crowley frantically scribbled.  Afterwards, whilst Crowley rolls a joint, Rose compares the two documents and corrects his errors, with an encouraging “Not bad, dear, another couple of goes and you’ll have it smack-on.”  However, for whatever reasons, probably pressure from Jones, Crowley runs out of wriggle room and retrieves his best effort (probably of several), ink still wet, from a ski-mitten.

Does that mean you date the writing of the manuscript in 1909?

Love=Law

Lutz


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Does that mean you date the writing of the manuscript in 1909?

At this point, RTC's position, is, i believe, that AL was written in 1902, or perhaps in 1909, or perhaps at almost other any time in between, other than when AC said it was written, and very definitely not in April 1904 under the circumstances claimed by AC.

It is hard for me to imagine any reason that any person would take RTC's claims seriously at this point, after so many embarrassments, blatant lies, and failures to produce the goods promised, but it cannot be denied that he does amuse, like a carnival geek.

To save the foreigners, and young people, googling, a "carnival geek" was a man in a pre-PC world's touring carnival "freak show". A geek would bite the head off a live chicken, and eat it, as his show biz "bit". RTC does more or less the same thing, and seems to like it.


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RTC
 RTC
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@the_real_simon_iff - Does that mean you date the writing of the manuscript in 1909? – Sort of... Crowley claimed he ‘lost’ it for five years and found it in 1909.  Yet, did not use it to correct the Holy Books, nor did Neuburg note the miraculous rediscovery in his Magickal Record – A document which, as you noted, appears to be at least part-written by Crowley.  It does make sense that Crowley created the MS around the ‘rediscovery’ time, to get Jones off his back.  It’s also evident that neither Crowley or Jones were that impressed.

When everything got all fall-ey apart-ey post Looking Glass, Crowley swept up the pieces and glued them together in a different form.  I think it likely that the esoteric embellishments grafted-on at this time were a means of plugging holes (exposed mainly by Jones) that sank Crowley’s first pedalo.

Not until 1912 (Equinox) does anyone actually glimpse a manuscript Crowley was still twitchy as Hell about – As evidenced by its absurdly small reproduction.  Only in 1937 (EoG), when all the original players are mad, dead or no longer give a rats’ ass, do we finally get a decent look at this obsessively shy document.  Incidentally (and as memory serves), never, ever. has this manuscript been placed on public view.  Why not?  Seriously, why not?

@ignant666 – I love the taste of live chicken head in the morning.  Tastes like... Thelema.  Hmm.  I understand that many Freak Shows migrated online. What is your act called?  I rarely perform my old ‘Watch the hermaphrodite bite off and eat its own head & tail’ routine, these days, and only ever on a digital platform.  As illustrated by the recent selfie.  I am just a well-adjusted, work-a-day Thrice-Great Magicole Hair.  Well, I ‘was’ until I received my Divine Mandate Card. “Initiate Thelemites into the New Aeon” it read.  ‘Back of the net’ I initially thought!  How hard can that be.  Yeah, right.  I sooo should have swapped with Aiwass.  That lucky entity got “Explore the limits of gender-fluid group Sex Magick in a sub-tropical beach environment” – Bastard.  Anyhow, the result is inevitable whichever route you take and irrespective of resistance.  So, just relax and let Horus do all the work.  Mmmmm.

 All Hail Horus. 

SelfieJPG

  

     


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @therealrtc

Sort of... Crowley claimed he ‘lost’ it for five years and found it in 1909.  Yet, did not use it to correct the Holy Books, nor did Neuburg note the miraculous rediscovery in his Magickal Record – A document which, as you noted, appears to be at least part-written by Crowley.  It does make sense that Crowley created the MS around the ‘rediscovery’ time, to get Jones off his back.  It’s also evident that neither Crowley or Jones were that impressed.

As you know the Holy Books came out in early 1909 (proofread in October 1908) and therefore the finding of the ms. how and when AC relates was simply too late for corrections. By the way, the manuscript is mentioned in OS23. To think that a few weeks before his divorce he somehow "rehearsed" the writing of the manuscript and then uses one random "rehearsal exemplar" with Rose's correction in one place as "the thing" sounds totally improbable. As is the idea that he included "but always with the original in the writing of the beast" without having that writing ready. In fact this whole faking thing sounds less probable as Crowley's version of misplacing and simply not paying real attention, especially because all that you claim AC wanted to "clear up" gets even more questionable in your timeline. This is NOT about the book having a supernatural source or not.

Posted by: @therealrtc

Incidentally (and as memory serves), never, ever. has this manuscript been placed on public view.  Why not?  Seriously, why not?

What would that be good for? It would be behind glass probably or do you think it would be a good idea that everybody can touch it? The existing scans are sufficient I guess (although super Hires colour scans would be really nice), at least to show that your "fiddling" theory in eLGMOR was ridiculously false. And even the tiny 1912 pics show that it is the same document as later in EOTG. Or what would you hope to find one it would be on display?

Posted by: @therealrtc

Only in 1937 (EoG), when all the original players are mad, dead or no longer give a rats’ ass, do we finally get a decent look at this obsessively shy document.  

You forget about the Tunis Edition of 1925, which is quite decent also, though extremely scarce. And by the way shows that it had by then already been rebacked with linen, in case anyone speculates about this was done by the modern OTO to get rid of the "watermark proof". You also forget about one other - in my view - quite imprtant fact: between ca. 1913 and 1930 and with the exception of Equinox III,1 in 1919, NOTHING thelemic was published except a few "cheap" broadsheets and pamphlets. Sometimes money can be an issue.

That's it for now.

Love=Law

Lutz

 


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RuneLogIX
(@runelogix)
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Posted by: @therealrtc

@the_real_simon_iff - Does that mean you date the writing of the manuscript in 1909? – Sort of... Crowley claimed he ‘lost’ it for five years and found it in 1909.  Yet, did not use it to correct the Holy Books, nor did Neuburg note the miraculous rediscovery in his Magickal Record – A document which, as you noted, appears to be at least part-written by Crowley.  It does make sense that Crowley created the MS around the ‘rediscovery’ time, to get Jones off his back.  It’s also evident that neither Crowley or Jones were that impressed...

I simply love RTC. If not for Cornelius I would vote for you as OHO for OTO.

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


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RuneLogIX
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff
Posted by: @runelogix

You mean the 2020 serious flu? Biggest nothing burger of the year.

How to keep your face (or wish to do):

Pandemic! America will collapse!

Pandemic actually is no pandemic! See? I told you so! Still America would collapse in a real pandemic!

Love=Law

Lutz

It is not an actual pandemic my friend, but it is a serious flu for anyone over 70. I'm sorry for anyone with loved ones that passed away from it but Armageddon end of the world scenario is a complete myth that should of been clear after June 2020 four months after my worst case scenario projection.

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @runelogix

I simply love RTC. If not for Cornelius I would vote for you as OHO for OTO.

I agree that one can admire his stuff only if out of touch with reality.

Love=Law

Lutz


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