Crowley and his dis...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Crowley and his discrepancies

Page 8 / 15

the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 
Posted by: @runelogix

It is not an actual pandemic my friend, but it is a serious flu for anyone over 70. I'm sorry for anyone with loved ones that passed away from it but Armageddon end of the world scenario is a complete myth that should of been clear after June 2020 four months after my worst case scenario projection.

If you say so. I tend to listen to scientists. But anyway, thanks for clarifying that your scenario was indeed a complete myth, and that from day one, no need to wait four months.

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3718
 
Posted by: @runelogix

It is not an actual pandemic my friend, but it is a serious flu for anyone over 70. I'm sorry for anyone with loved ones that passed away from it but Armageddon end of the world scenario is a complete myth that should of been clear after June 2020 four months after my worst case scenario projection.

Unless you stop making these stupid revisionist claims right now, i will be forced to pull out and re-publish all your idiot predictions from last spring about how industrialized society should have collapsed into chaos by now, due to the food riots caused by China buying up all the world's food, and mass death, and devastation, that you predicted, from what you now dismiss as "serious flu".

Why make a complete public fool of yourself twice over one pandemic, first by being an alarmist idiot at the beginning, and now a second time with this new series of false "COVID is no big deal" claims now that it is winding down?

Reminding the folks of your sad inability to do grade-school level arithmetic will of course be part of the package.

Maybe quit while you're behind? Or perhaps you want all to reminded that your arrogance is matched only by your ignorance?


ReplyQuote
David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3214
 
Posted by: @ignant666

 

Reminding the folks of your sad inability to do grade-school level arithmetic will of course be part of the package.

Maybe quit while you're behind? Or perhaps you want all to reminded that your arrogance is matched only by your ignorance?

I lost track, is this the Nazi kid who claimed that the right wingers would conquer Thelema and "statistics lives matter"? 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3718
 

He is a Gorean, and a Full-Time Investor, and pretty right-wing, so i think he is who you are thinking of.


ReplyQuote
RuneLogIX
(@runelogix)
Magister
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 407
 

@the_real_simon_iff believe science bro, that is exactly how it works.

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


ReplyQuote
RuneLogIX
(@runelogix)
Magister
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 407
 
Posted by: @ignant666

He is a Gorean, and a Full-Time Investor, and pretty right-wing, so i think he is who you are thinking of.

take a look at coinbase coins annual ROI this year. then think of me my goatse friend. 

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3718
 
Posted by: @runelogix

my goatse friend.

The thing is, the homophobia, in addition to being stupid when addressing a heterosexual, isn't allowed here.

I am not a big cryptocurrency guy, but isn't saying "take a look at coinbase coins annual ROI this year" as stupid as saying "take a look at the NYSE's annual ROI this year", in that both coinbase and the NYSE are trading platforms? It is apparently true that coinbase plans to go public soon, but hasn't yet. So it doesn't have any ROI for this year.

Maybe stop telling stupid lies? And now that you have provoked me, prepare for your "greatest hits" to be reprised, every stupid one of them.


ReplyQuote
RTC
 RTC
(@therealrtc)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 349
 

@runelogixI simply love RTC. If not for Cornelius I would vote for you as OHO for OTO.” – Well, of course you do.  You are a natural vessel facilitating transmission of the Horus Current, and the fruit of what @ignant666 could become.  If only... With reference to recent identity speculation, would now be a good time to expose myself as non-other than Jerry Cornelius?

@the_real_simon_iff - Your questionable suggestion that all three volumes were released by “early 1909” fails to address the issue of Neuburg’s inexplicable failure to note the rediscovery.  I accept that the ‘rehearsals’ with Rose could have taken place earlier than 1909.  All such were imperfect, and Crowley played the card only as a last-ditch attempt to keep Jones on-board.

The Tunis Edition – Are you serious?  The third re-hash of Crowley’s Master of the Universe scam, distributed to half a dozen favourable candidates as a means of ‘testing the water’ for his thrice-regurgitated construct, in the guise of “World Teacher.”  Needless to say, this also failed and was shelved for a further 12 years.

Incidentally, the ‘re-backing’ was done by Crowley, in attempting to conceal a contradiction to his myth.

What would that be good for?” - Are you kidding! The Liber AL manuscript is Thelema’s ultimate Holy Relic, talisman and Excalibur.  So, why hide it away like a dirty secret?


RuneLogIX liked
ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6328
 
Posted by: @runelogix

coinbase coins

I note that a bitcoin now costs $57k+. I remember when it was $800. I wish I had been just a part-time investor, but I'm completely divested of that sort of thing.

Posted by: @therealrtc

World Teacher.”

Neti-neti!

 


ReplyQuote
RuneLogIX
(@runelogix)
Magister
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 407
 

Well, of course you do.  You are a natural vessel facilitating transmission of the Horus Current, and the fruit of what

I am totally adding this Degree to my occult curriculum vitae! 🤩 

@therealrtc The third re-hash of Crowley’s Master of the Universe scam, distributed to half a dozen favourable candidates as a means of ‘testing the water’ for his thrice-regurgitated construct, in the guise of “World Teacher.”  Needless to say, this also failed and was shelved for a further 12 years.

Well, to be fair, there was a whole lot of embarrassing politicking at that time for the purse bags that came with the Thesosphy Society. It's really not much different today with AA lineage politicking. There is really no shortage embarrassing episodes with AC starting with trying to take over or claiming to have destroyed the GD temple. I really wish the people at that time had some circumspection and maybe just taught religion at universities and had their little cult on the side but the only cult leader I know of to do that successful was about 30-60 years later when Bhagwan Rajneesh started his thing in 1960s India. AC should of learned to cool it after 1922 but that just wasn't in the cards. I digress.

In my opinion the Message, Purpose, and Intent, of Liber L is a valid hadith of the Rosicrucian tradition and important to free mankind from evil spirits, e.g., the Pope, his minions of demon saints, evangelicals, and the Black Brothers (so well expounded by Shiva elsewhere). Spiritual development is not cost free, there is a price to pay for initiation and the Ordeals it brings. Isn't these literary gifts from AC worthy of some praise? I think they are.

@ignant666 I love living rent free in this guys head.

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 
Posted by: @therealrtc

Your questionable suggestion that all three volumes were released by “early 1909” fails to address the issue of Neuburg’s inexplicable failure to note the rediscovery.  I accept that the ‘rehearsals’ with Rose could have taken place earlier than 1909.  All such were imperfect, and Crowley played the card only as a last-ditch attempt to keep Jones on-board.

So, let's look at the facts: technically, Neuburg's diary of his Magical retirement ends on June 27, before the alleged rediscovery. One could argue (as I did) that since it took two more days to "polish" the diary it would be only logical that Neuburg included the discovery as an after-thought. But one could also argue that he didn't because the diary does not cover June 28. There is also speculation that Neuburg wasn't around anymore and AC polished the diary himself, the pages in the Harry Ransom Center at least seem to be in AC's handwriting. Also, one could argue that the Aha-moment wasn't as big as Crowley says in the Confessions or that the discovery was just made up for effects. In any case nothing about this episode makes more or less sense with your new "fantasy" of Rose and Aleister rehearsing the writing. You should also decide if you think AC wanted to have Jones on-board or off-his-back. But please remember, Liber AL was with him in May 1906, after AC has been on the road again for over a year, but you think it sounds plausible that years later he suddenly finds out that he mentioned "the original writing" in his text and then needs Rose to produce one? Are YOU kidding? Even AC's own story makes more sense than that.

Posted by: @therealrtc

The Tunis Edition – Are you serious?  The third re-hash of Crowley’s Master of the Universe scam, distributed to half a dozen favourable candidates as a means of ‘testing the water’ for his thrice-regurgitated construct, in the guise of “World Teacher.”  Needless to say, this also failed and was shelved for a further 12 years.

Guess what? There weren't many Thelemites around then who were in dire need of the manuscript. Nor was there a lot of money around to publish stuff. Nobody would deny that AC had some very strange ideas over the years to get recognition for his role as a Prophet, but that hasn't anything to do with AL itself.

Posted by: @therealrtc

Incidentally, the ‘re-backing’ was done by Crowley, in attempting to conceal a contradiction to his myth.

Incidentally, you obviously have proof for that, don't you? Care to let us know which contradiction you are talking about and how rebacking was able to conceal that? Or do we have to wait for the new book? As someone who has a few papers that are about one hundred years old and see how they desintegrate when taken out of their protection folder, I can highly commend backing a manuscript with linen when you carry it around all over the world (or at least Italy and Tunis). Or, as he did with most of his manuscripts, giving or selling them to someone who takes care of them.

Posted by: @therealrtc

Are you kidding! The Liber AL manuscript is Thelema’s ultimate Holy Relic, talisman and Excalibur.  So, why hide it away like a dirty secret?

Erm, by now it was published quite a lot and in proper quality and it is on web display permanently. But: you just want to see it on display so that people can travel there and marvel at it? Are you kidding? No, of course not, you seem to think that the fact it is not on display is just another puzzle-piece in your big conspiracy theory. Unfortunately I cannot think of another reason to display it than "that would be nice". But I guess it is just another smoke grenade of yours to make things look fishy. Here's the thing: everybody knows there is something fishy about it and nobody cares. Alas, your attempts to make a "believable" screenplay out of all this is even more fishy, probably beyond fishy after eLGMOR. While it is a good thing you adapt your theories (like your altering letters and riddle solution fantasies) to the facts it would still be better to question your "alternative timeline" theory before inventing any new Ol Fakey fables to fit that timeline.

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 
Posted by: @runelogix

@ignant666 I love living rent free in this guys head.

Oh well, I am sure you don't. He just seems to be a little more annoyed than myself that you just reappear and act like you never said this nonsense. Maybe there is someone who doesn't know that, so it is good to remember what you said then (not to forget there wasn't much more you contributed apart from your crypto-bragging). It's for the same reason I am calling out RT Cole's eLGMOR or watermark thing again and again. Just that people don't forget that this is a guy who tried anything to "prove" his alternate timeline fantasy and take that into account when judging his newest thing.

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 468
 
Posted by: @runelogix

In my opinion the Message, Purpose, and Intent, of Liber L is a valid hadith of the Rosicrucian tradition

I wonder which tradition is being thought of here. The real one which did not exist, or the fake ones which have claimed to exist since time immemorial?

I kinda agree with the this if we are referring to the real Rosicrucian order which never really existed as anything other than an egregore, a powerful one, that initiated the European enlightenment (along with coffee, i.e. better drugs 🙂

Currently, from my POV, it appears that these perplexing occult characters and literatures, both Rosicrucian and Liber Al vel Legis, can function quite well as Tibetan termas for reincarnating tertons into the west.

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

I wonder which tradition is being thought of here. The real one which did not exist, or the fake ones which have claimed to exist since time immemorial?

O course both lack the praeternatural spice...

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6328
 
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

everybody knows there is something fishy about it and nobody cares.

Well, there's a certain amount of caring involved. We all want to know enough to prove (to ourselves - each unit alone) there is indeed the smell of fish. Eventually, one come to appreciate the difference between Frater Perdurabo and the imp-demon Crowley.

More importantly, each person must come to appreciate the difference between one's own Frater or Soror and one's own imp-demon.

 


ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 

Discrepancies: or not? I am asking the native English speakers here. In the aborted 1907 proofs (with corrections) for Liber AL - intended for The Collected Works - AC speaks in a footnote of the mysterious disappearance of the manuscript. The next footnote is about the line and the circle squared: "Here were drawn a line and a sort of square with round corners." The question is: would this in English be an accurate description of that circle with a cross in it that we all know? If not, is this a kind of proof that he really lost the manuscript and only worked from the typescript and that in his memory the squared circle was "a sort of square with round corners" because he hadn't seen it for years?

I also thought to have found evidence that AC had the manuscript at hand when correcting the proofs (they are somewehere here on Lashtal to download), because all the corrections were clearly made with the manuscript (or a copy of it) at hand but I have just learned that Fuller made these corrections at a later time, some of them as late as in the 1930s.

Thanks for helping the German

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 

And a short question for @therealrtc here (I know I am on a roll but work is quite low in these Pandemic times and I have more spare time than in years): All sneering aside, if you really think it is probable that AC convinced Rose to help him out in multiple sessions of creating THE manuscript (and all this while they obviously hate each other, she even burnt some of his manuscripts), don't you think it would be many times more probable and logical to have her drop a few subtle lines on THAT UNBELIEVABLE EVENTS IN CAIRO APRIL 1904 in a letter to her brother or something similar? Why the totally unconvincing fake? Really, this "rehearsal session thing" (even if somehow disrupted early by Jones, it is unconceivable there wouldn't have been another way out for AC than to present him that last wobbly draft) cannot be an actual theory of yours, can it?

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 468
 
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

O course both lack the praeternatural spice...

Until the aspirant performs what he is supposed to perform, and adds it in. 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 468
 
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Why the totally unconvincing fake?

Well Im glad you find it unconvincing. I thought it was rather convincing up to a certain point.

 

But That's the point, no? To make up a story that can account for the illumination? 

 

is it not written "All this and a book to say how thou didst come hither..."?

 

Part of the "spell", part of the "work", is creating and telling the story, the myth, about the adept and the journey the adept went on to discover the "diamond". Myth making is civilization building. Still on point with the whole function of magick and esoteric secret societies, if they are genuine.

 

The medium is the message.

 

The facts about the story are irrelevant.

 

Crowley's viral marketing worked, so his story worked and accomplished what he set out to do. Well almost.

I love it if Crowley thinks he made it all up, hehe

 

 

 

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

The facts about the story are irrelevant.

 Crowley's viral marketing worked, so his story worked and accomplished what he set out to do. Well almost. I love it if Crowley thinks he made it all up, hehe

That's one way to look at it and AC himself ducked out of it all with his "success is thy proof". But of course in this instance (and maybe only in this) the facts about the story are not irrelevant, because there is this author, RT Cole, who claims that Thelema will crumble as soon as he finally proves that the reception story is a fake. I know that sounds like runelogix a year ago, but anyway. I consider it a service to Mr. Cole that he gets the opportunity to "defend" his theories here, just like he would have to if this was his thesis. It is my duty to do all I can to "fight" his theories, to get the best out of him - or because I think they suck. I think he is asking (sometimes) the right questions but he has his answer already and that of course always is a bad idea. It is also a lot of fun to take Crowley by his word and see what works and what not. In the end "The facts about the story are irrelevant", I agree... but also are "unproven fantasies about the story."

I like your " "All this and a book to say how thou didst come hither..." hint.

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

I love it if Crowley thinks he made it all up, hehe

I am afraid this will be the next and last resort Cole goes to. That Crowley made it all up, but in fact he didn't. He just didn't know how he had been used by ... yeah, by whatever. And by not getting it but faking it he all started it unbeknownst to him. This will be something that will be even harder to "defend" or to "fight".

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

The medium is the message.

Was Crowley right: "and in a thousand (in some instances: hundred) years from this moment, the world will be sitting in the sunset of Crowleyanity."

Love=Law

Lutz

Sorry for the triple-post.


ReplyQuote
hadgigegenraum
(@hadgigegenraum)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 387
 
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Discrepancies: or not? I am asking the native English speakers here. In the aborted 1907 proofs (with corrections) for Liber AL - intended for The Collected Works - AC speaks in a footnote of the mysterious disappearance of the manuscript. The next footnote is about the line and the circle squared: "Here were drawn a line and a sort of square with round corners." The question is: would this in English be an accurate description of that circle with a cross in it that we all know? If not, is this a kind of proof that he really lost the manuscript and only worked from the typescript and that in his memory the squared circle was "a sort of square with round corners" because he hadn't seen it for years?

I also thought to have found evidence that AC had the manuscript at hand when correcting the proofs (they are somewehere here on Lashtal to download), because all the corrections were clearly made with the manuscript (or a copy of it) at hand but I have just learned that Fuller made these corrections at a later time, some of them as late as in the 1930s.

Thanks for helping the German

Love=Law

Lutz

@the _real_simon_iff

Thanks for this excellent observation and question

Also thanks LASHTAL for making this available :

https://www.lashtal.com/download/liber-l-1907-galley-proof-for-collected-works-aleister-crowley/

It is  a remarkable work with gems like the  footnote in question 


ReplyQuote
RTC
 RTC
(@therealrtc)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 349
 

@the_real_simon_iff – You really should have been Crowley’s Spin Doctor, oh, actually... Did Boris ever replace Cummings?

If not, is this a kind of proof [...] because he hadn't seen it for years?”  If you are to place weight upon this footnote, then I request you give equal consideration to the document’s opening salvo.  Would you care to pick the bones from that car-crash?  Indeed, do you have any theories explanatory of the document’s rather unorthodox presentation and content? – A main course of Raw AL with Enochian chips, and side-salad of garlic stele.  All served on a grate Tupperware Invocation bowl.

What we have here is a transition between Crowley’s original scheme and the variation he eventually went with.  Crowley is preparing a stage.  Heck, he even sets-up the punch-line with ‘Woe is me.  The manuscript is lost’ (Ham!)  In another footnote he thanks the stele translators, who are (at that time) playing Rose’s future part.  Most of the now-familiar occult embellishments are also absent.

Even AC's own story makes more sense than that.”  - What I am actually saying is that Crowley realised from the outset that he must eventually produce the handwritten MS he ‘received from an Egyptian Adept, in Cairo.’ (as per another of the footnotes).  Around the ‘rediscovery’ time, Crowley seemingly caves-in to pressure from Jones and coughs-up the best extant ‘rehearsal’ version.  This could have been prepared at any point between 1903 and 1909.  Crowley certainly kept it well under cover until Jones compelled him to utilise a document he knew fell short of the mark.  Perhaps the disintegration of Rose and the relationship explains why they failed to produce a less questionable specimen?


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 468
 
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

But of course in this instance (and maybe only in this) the facts about the story are not irrelevant, because there is this author, RT Cole, who claims that Thelema will crumble as soon as he finally proves that the reception story is a fake.

What an amazing opportunity this will be to explain how magick and psychology really works then. This author RT Cole is setting himself as someone who does not get the joke. Thelema crumbled long before this fella came along.

That was one  of the cool things about magick/viral marketing before Steven Bannon KEK magic crowd ruined it for everyone, the more stories you get people to tell about you, the longer the stories will continue to be embellished and distribute themselves user to user. Crowley needed to figure out a way to assign authority to himself so he could account for the brilliance of Liber Al in a way that would make sense. If it was in another era, he may have claimed he was kidnapped by a UFO.

It is more brilliant if it is completely staged by Crowley.

Crowley has been teasing his audience for over a hundred years, making us continually worried if he is a demon, or a fraud, or a sociopathic psychopath. It is a punishing and delusional game if you do not think for yourself and fall into the glamour of the magician, it is written: "Thus is the art and craft of the Magus but glamour"  

All magick is staged, it is theater craft. It is not a rational language. Was anyone really expecting an objective reality consisting of an Aiwass and Hadit somewhere, spoken of by Ra to the ear of Rose? Did it really matter if Moses saw God in a burning bush or not if the 10 commandments still created an entire nation that still exists to this very day? 

Posted by: @therealrtc

Crowley is preparing a stage. 

Exactly

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

This will be something that will be even harder to "defend" or to "fight".

I think you got this 👍 

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Was Crowley right: "and in a thousand (in some instances: hundred) years from this moment, the world will be sitting in the sunset of Crowleyanity."

Note he said Crowleyanity and not Thelema, hehe

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 468
 
Posted by: @therealrtc

Crowley certainly kept it well under cover until Jones compelled him to utilise a document he knew fell short of the mark.  Perhaps the disintegration of Rose and the relationship explains why they failed to produce a less questionable specimen?

In my non-expert yet informed opinion, Liber Al vel Legis is one of the greatest literary works of the 20th century, and was apart of the same wave that brought us The Rites of Spring, E=Mc2, and the actual Golden Dawn. I think we will be talking about Liber Al vel Legis for a very long time. By "we" i mean a small circle of wanna be initiates will always be drawn to this text while the Glamour of Crowley will attract a far larger audience. The Glamour of Crowlanity is viral marketing a highly alchemical text that will have a profound affect in an extremely small number of society that are artists, designers, scientists or philosophers of some kind over time, insuring that this text will distribute itself through history and maybe like a 1% conversion rate lol

I think the grand finale was really the whole squabble over changing of an actual single letter from "fill" to "kill" in the book of the law. How brilliant is that one?

I think @shiva's take on this was spot on and refreshing for me to hear voiced by a community. Liber al vel legis is a handbook for adepts to create more "liber al vel legises", it is a manual for self initiation.

in my opinion of course 🙂

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


RuneLogIX liked
ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 
Posted by: @therealrtc

If you are to place weight upon this footnote, then I request you give equal consideration to the document’s opening salvo.  Would you care to pick the bones from that car-crash?  Indeed, do you have any theories explanatory of the document’s rather unorthodox presentation and content?

Well, that is probably why it wasn't published like this. I of course give equal consideration to the opening. It says he is not responsible for the text, the same way he is not for the two Enochian Aethyrs he publishes. But there is no doubt that he put these two to paper, or is it? So what's the difference to L? The famous "came into my possession in  July 1906" line: whatever that means exactly (in my view this is about the manuscript, not the typescript), there is no doubt that he studies L in April 1906, after being on the road for over a year. There is also no doubt he wrote to Fuller about the Ballantyne proofs of Liber L in May 1906. So - and this just a proposal - maybe he did rediscover the original manuscript in July 1906, and maybe this is the reason why in the end he did not publish it with the Works? Also consistent with his side of the story is the footnote about the ritual, with which Aiwass was invoked, and the "go back to Egypt with Rose" orders he gets from Aiwass invoked in April 1906. As said so very often before, I am not trying to prove that what AC said about the Cairo thing is the absolute truth, I am trying to challenge your ever changing theories (gosh, in your last book he was somehow tracing a line through the manuscript in his Cairo flat by sunlight to create the riddle), and so far I think AC's highly inconsistent narrative still makes more sense than yours which is always dependent on stuff there is no evidence for.

Posted by: @therealrtc

What I am actually saying is that Crowley realised from the outset that he must eventually produce the handwritten MS he ‘received from an Egyptian Adept, in Cairo.’ (as per another of the footnotes).

I am sorry, but I cannot find the footnote you are talking about. An Egytian Adept from Cairo? Must produce a handwritten manuscript? Please enlighten me.

Posted by: @therealrtc

Around the ‘rediscovery’ time, Crowley seemingly caves-in to pressure from Jones and coughs-up the best extant ‘rehearsal’ version.  This could have been prepared at any point between 1903 and 1909.  Crowley certainly kept it well under cover until Jones compelled him to utilise a document he knew fell short of the mark.

Well, the thing is, that I can see no evidence for the constant pressure from Jones you mention. AC keeps on spitting out Holy Books, the preperation of the Equinox and the recruiting of first followers seems to work smoothly. Where is the pressure you speak of? Not to mention that AC is constantly on the road.

Posted by: @therealrtc

Perhaps the disintegration of Rose and the relationship explains why they failed to produce a less questionable specimen?

As I already said, in my opinion this total dependance on Rose makes no sense at all. Not only is it totally unneccessary (the abscence of Rose's handwriting on the document would be much less suspicious as those curious two corrections) it is also quite unconceivable that he would have put himself on the mercy of her.

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Crowley has been teasing his audience for over a hundred years, making us continually worried if he is a demon, or a fraud, or a sociopathic psychopath. It is a punishing and delusional game if you do not think for yourself and fall into the glamour of the magician, it is written: "Thus is the art and craft of the Magus but glamour"  

As I said before, this is not about the authenticity of the Cairo reception story or about the existence of praterhuman entities or if the whole thing is a fake or a hoax of Crowley or about Magic or Thelema in general. This is only about the "alternative timeline" and the ever-changing theories of Mr. Cole to "prove" (like in really proving it in a kind of legal sense) that it was all only a fake.

And be assured, never in my life have I been worried (much less continually) if AC is a demon, a fraud, or a psychopath. He was there, and man, was he there!

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
wellreadwellbred
(@wellreadwellbred)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 1163
 

>----> @the_real_simon_iff: "Just being curious here, @wellreadwellbred, when is the first instance of "Thelema" (the exact phrase) you have found so far? [...] What have you found? When became Crowleyanity Thelema? Moreover, when Rose testified that AC was the inventor of a religion (during her divorce case), did she mean Thelema? I mean, she contributed to the BOTL obviously... "

 

The first instance of an interpretation of the word thelema akin to Aleister Crowley's interpretation of this word, is in François Rabelais' Gargantua, first published 1534, 370 years before Aleister Crowley's The book of the Law, dated 1904 by the latter. Gargantua is a part of Rabelais' pentalogy of novels titled La vie de Gargantua et de Pantagruel (= The Life of Gargantua and of Pantagruel ).

This pentalogy of novels was published in English 1693–1694, 210 years before Aleister Crowley's interpretation of the word thelema in his The Book of the Law supposedly written i 1904, and thus available for Aleister Crowley as a source of inspiration written in his native language, that is, a source of inspiration for his interpretation of the word thelema. 

In Gargantua Rabelais describes an Abbey of Thelema, with "fay çe que vouldras", French for "do what you will", as the only rule. Said description of an abbey of Thelema, precedes Aleister Crowley's own by 386 years. The ideal of the Thelemites of Rabelais is to do anything out of love, and not by force or constraint, that is, doing what they freely will. And this ideal of the Thelemites does not exclude submission either, but inclines them to submit to each other out of love. 

 

>----> @the_real_simon_iff: "When became Crowleyanity Thelema?"

 

Aleister Crowley's use and interpretation of the word thelema in his The Book of the Law, involves the statement "The word of the Law is THELEMA."

"The word of the Law is THELEMA." is a statement in direct contradiction of the core doctrinal message of John Nelson Darby, the founder of the Exclusive Brethren - for which Aleister Crowley's father spent a lot of time as a traveling evangelist - an offshoot of the Plymouth Brethren Christian denomination.

John Nelson Darby's core doctrinal message is that "... "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." He is the end of it, not the fulfiller of it for me because I am under it now. If I am, He is not the end of it. [...] the apostle [Paul] does go on to say what the righteousness which is of faith is, and never says one word of the law, and could not if Christ was the end of it. [...] The law brought a curse; Christ redeemed us from the curse-that is, by suffering on the cross."
(Source: John Nelson Darby: "A Letter on the Righteousness of God[.] Collected Writings of J.N. Darby: Doctrinal 2" - - - https://bibletruthpublishers.com/a-letter-on-the-righteousness-of-god/john-nelson-darby-jnd/collected-writings-of-j-n-darby-doctrinal-2/la62442 )

In direct contradiction of John Nelson Darby's core doctrinal message about that "Christ is the end of the law [...] The law brought a curse; Christ redeemed us from the curse-that is, by suffering on the cross.", Aleister Crowley's does in his The Book of the Law state  "With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross.", and proclaim that "The word of the Law is THELEMA.", and refers to this Law as "this bliss".

My point is that what that is unique in Aleister Crowley's further development of Rabelais' interpretation of the word thelema, is Aleister Crowley presenting it as a Universal Law, in his "threefold book of Law" in which he tree times curses "... all gods of men."  

 

>----> @the_real_simon_iff: "Moreover, when Rose testified that AC was the inventor of a religion (during her divorce case), did she mean Thelema? I mean, she contributed to the BOTL obviously... "

 

"Yes, it can be that Crowley actually directly involved his wife Rose in concocting his The Book of the Law. A rational explanation involving no "praeterhuman intelligence" an no supernatural aspects, for the evidently odd style of grammer in this book, compared with other texts written by AC:

Having worked on developing the teachings and concepts for his own Order since at least 1900 ( – as already described in detail by me earlier in this thread – ) AC's encounter with a particular ancient Egyptian artifac leads to him experiencing a breakthrough of insigh, and to work fast at incorporating said artifact within his already developed teachings and concepts.

 

Crowley writing his The Book of the Law fast under inpiration based on his from around 1900 already developed teachings and concepts, while simultaneously trying to superimpose those upon names and terms recently translated for him from said particular ancient Egyptian artifact, is one obvious rational explanation for the unique odd style of grammer used in this book. And as far as I know, this is the only book written by AC where he simultaneously tries to put his own spin on so many names and terms recently translated for him from this artifact. 

 

As already mentioned above in this posting, the Xian traditional Easter celebration of Jesus' resurrection on the third day, is a plausible inspiration for AC's story about receiving his The Book of the Law over three days, writing one hour each day​. And an approach that he can have used to achieve the appearance of the one hour of writing each day having occured, is to have used a timing device to keep track of the time spent during each session of writing. Maybe with assistance from his then wife Rose, to help him with keeping track of the time. 

 

AC's claimed dates in the month of April, for the three days of the writing of his The Book of the Law, does of course also have some correspondence with the Xian Easter festival and holiday commemorating the resurrection of Jesus from the dead [on the third day], which is also claimed to have occured in the month of April."

(Source:  "Was the HGA also the actual initiator in the Order in which AC started on his path as an initiate?", page 3. - - -  https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/106555/  )


ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 

@wellreadwellbred

Thanks, I should have been clearer and could have spared you so many words: I wanted to inquire: which year and what text is your first find of Crowley using the word Thelema AFTER 1904 and OUTSIDE Liber L. ?

Sorry

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6328
 
Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

"do what you will", as the only rule. Said description of an abbey of Thelema, precedes Aleister Crowley's own by 386 years.

"Old wine in a new bottle."

 


ReplyQuote
RTC
 RTC
(@therealrtc)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 349
 

@the_real_simon_iff – My alternate timeline has not altered a jot since its initial unleashment on 01 April 2014.  Your flamboyant efforts to mutate and otherwise obfuscate an elementary concept beyond recognition are... interesting.  As noted by @sangewanchuck56, "Thus is the art and craft of the Magus but glamour."  Not coincidentally, the final facet of my solution to the ‘4638...’ riddle has Crowley, in his own words, admitting precisely this.   

In a nutshell – As a means of usurping Mathers, Crowley staged a re-run of the G.D. founding docs myth, on a much grander scale.  It is clear (from his own notebooks) that Crowley initially touted AL as ‘a MS received from an Egyptian Adept, incorporating a ritual to contact a non-corporeal higher order.’  This is the version pitched to Jones and where it all went wrong.  Jones had an extra occult stripe.  He outranked Crowley, so was superior in any new order – i.e. Jones gets to chat with ET, whist Crowley sharpens pencils.

There’s an entry in Crowley’s 1906, June-ish (as memory serves) diary which reads “Jones wants authority.”  This is the moment Crowley realised that his carefully staged ‘psycho-drama’ inescapably led to another ‘second-fiddle to Mathers’ scenario.  This is the moment Crowley’s ego took hold.  This is the moment he transmuted from ‘the one who comes after,’ to ‘the one.’  This is the birth-moment of all discrepancies.  Crowley changed his story and the extensive remodelling left visible scars.  But, but... All of this text-pong is irrelevant in consequence of one salient point, as expressed by @sangewanchuck56:

Did it really matter if Moses saw God in a burning bush or not if the 10 commandments still created an entire nation that still exists to this very day?

Four-millennia old, and most in the Western Hemisphere can still have a reasonable stab at listing, if not living by them.  Ask the same people who Crowley is, and all shrug their shoulders.  Thelema has not proved to be, as Crowley claimed ‘a billion times better than sliced butter, nor has it been adopted as the New World Religion.  Indeed, as noted by @sangewanchuck56, the great ‘F/K’ debacle may well be the final blow which splinters the splinters to flakier flakes.

Whether Crowley was the genuine recipient of a New Covenant, or merely a faker of such, matters little.  As the record stands, Brand Crowley, as promulgated for the last century, is chronically dysfunctional.  If it were a new car, you’d have it towed back to the showroom.  'Higher' considerations are not applicable  to subscribers of the ‘Crowley was Mr Max Manly-Man, so it’s all part of the legend’ school of thought,  However, for individuals, well me, who believe that Crowley stumbled over something unimaginably gargantuan, something physically changing all aspects of existence on this planet, something that affords hitherto unprecedented access to the supernatural, something that unfolds a deeper understanding of the mysteries of both global evolution and human reproduction, and something empowering ALL with the potential to actually ‘cause change in conformity with will...’  Well, I’m running with that, and The Horus Toy™

Osirian Sex Magick demanded that the ‘Word of the Logos’ is transmitted exclusively by the male.  The onset of Horus reveals this misconception to be equally grave as the converse opinion, as prevailed throughout the aeon of Isis.  ‘Sex’ is just sex.  Yes, it’s Magickal (we emulate God, in Creation), but not in ‘that’ sense.  The Magick happens in consequence of the unique state of consciousness sex precipitates and not the secreted bodily fluids.  This ‘secret’ is the gift of Horus.  Evolution calls us, down a conduit formerly misunderstood as the paranormal, to a singularity of global consciousness (along the fabled Silver Cord to the legendary Akashic Record).

@shiva – “Liber al vel legis is a handbook for adepts to create more "liber al vel legises..."” - Historically speaking, Thelema is a barren plant which survives just long enough to produce crops of equally barren seeds.  Crowley’s strain is demonstrably flawed, but beneath its voluminous ego-husk remain enough clues for someone, eventually, to piss on, germinate, stand back and think WOW!!!  I am 100% certain that Crowley’s ‘insight’ is unique in human history.

The Thrice-Great Magicole Hair must now enter a period of silence, in which to complete work on the most significant Thelemic work ever published.  The sooner individuals can graze the lush pastures of  666, Sex and the New Aeon of Horus, and spoon the unimaginable delights of The Horus Toy™,  the quicker will everyone stand on the shoulders of giants.

 

All Hail Horus.

 

666

         


ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 

@therealrtc

Pathetic!

Thanks for not answering my question.

The rest is as I predicted.

And sorry, still proud of eLGMOR? Wowza!

Have fun with your new friends.

Good luck

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 

Well, the best thing about that is that @lashtal might someday feel again like publishing his "Cairo Book" after it is now clear it isn't in the least superfluous and may be needed more than ever (by some at least).

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3718
 

Always the same story with @therealrtc : "Jam* tomorrow but never jam today**!"

------------------

* Like the promised jam, the A. Pirie watermark evidence, and Rose Crowley diaries, and Horus Toys® all will arrive tomorrow.

** On the rare occasions he delivers anything but hot air, the only kind of jam he can serve is that "eLGMOR Jam"- yecch! The jam that is no jam at all, and is not even jelly.


belmurru liked
ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 

@ignant666 Well, there is a trend. From blatantly ripping off Crowley (or better: P.R.Koenig) with his Naughty Nun CDs; to becoming a more "serious" researcher with his Cefalu book, AC Article Collection book and the indeed not unfunny Chrystal Skull book; to becoming the "best AC researcher of them all" with his Liber Bogus (big fail); to the sheer lunacy of eLGMOR; the next step has got to be total fruitcake - or not? We will again and once more have to wait for the next book (well, of course we don't "have to") from which he probably expects better sales numbers again - combining anti-OTO conspiracies with Sex Magick and final proof for the existence of the Supernatural, what could possibly go wrong?

I for my part will be waiting, but not with bated breath.

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 468
 
Posted by: @therealrtc

As the record stands, Brand Crowley, as promulgated for the last century, is chronically dysfunctional.

Agreed! And I say this as an outsider with zero qualifications on the matter 🙂

Dare a I say the most blasphemous thing imaginable that the community, broadly speaking, needs to have a "come to Jesus moment" about accepting this?

Jesus, Horus, whatevs.

Posted by: @therealrtc

Historically speaking, Thelema is a barren plant which survives just long enough to produce crops of equally barren seeds.  Crowley’s strain is demonstrably flawed, but beneath its voluminous ego-husk remain enough clues for someone, eventually, to piss on, germinate, stand back and think WOW!!!  I am 100% certain that Crowley’s ‘insight’ is unique in human history.

I think this rings partially true, however the "barren plant metaphor" could use an update, as it would be impossible for a barren plant to produce anything, much less more barren plants, no?

"I am 100% certain that Crowley’s ‘insight’ is unique in human history."

It's not entirely though, unless you can see where i am missing something.  I do think Liber Al vel Legis is a very unique work, however, but only a disruptive work in the west.

Part of the other "clincher" for me in sort of seeing through the "show" was discovering perfectly intact gnostic/tantric/magical orders with perfectly traceable lineages with incredibly clear instruction and clarity and far more elaborate hagiographies and mythologies with critical mass adoption already established in the Himalayas predating the Western Enlightenment.

These are fully formed, and remarkably similar enough for someone to easily see that, hmmm, perhaps this is what a "source" looks like and spontaneous western traditions that quickly rise and fall are just distributing the source message from the Himalayas (at least in this historical moment, aeon, etc) Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Well, there is a trend. From blatantly ripping off Crowley (or better: P.R.Koenig) with his Naughty Nun CDs; to becoming a more "serious" researcher with his Cefalu book, AC Article Collection book and the indeed not unfunny Chrystal Skull book; to becoming the "best AC researcher of them all" with his Liber Bogus (big fail); to the sheer lunacy of eLGMOR; the next step has got to be total fruitcake - or not?

I apologize if I stepped into a riff here, it is hard for me to follow where exactly there is contention. From what little I know, limited to exposure in this thread only, All RTC is doing is creating his very own creation myth around Liber Al vel Legis in a way that makes sense to his own set of insights, what am i missing?

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
thearthuremerson
(@thearthuremerson)
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 43
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

what am i missing?

An appropriately less permissive notion of "insight".


ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

All RTC is doing is creating his very own creation myth around Liber Al vel Legis in a way that makes sense to his own set of insights, what am i missing?

Nobody would give a chuckle about RTC's own set of insights, it would just be like f.ex. the dozens of "received" new Liber AL chapters and so on. Does any one really care? If these people have fun with it, why not? The big difference with RTC is - in my view - that he promised not his "insights" or "opinion" (I have often applauded him for asking questions loudly that I and others have been asking for years) but hard facts. As in legal hard facts - I said this before. For example that he will provide proof that the paper Liber AL was scribbled on was not available in 1904. He then demonstrably photoshopped a watermark, and that was the only proof ever provided. I know in the big scheme of enlightenment for the planet this might be totally unimportant to you (and rightly so), but it would of course have stopped any further conversation about AC's account, and that is what we are talking about. He promised diaries of Rose Crowley to prove his point, of course they never came. I myself provided scans of the infamous aborted Liber AL version for The Collected Works of 1907 (thereby breaking my obligation to the Harry Ransom Center where I ordered the copies - which anyone can do - but luckily the copyrightholders agreed to its publication) in which he thought he had found further proof that the AC storyline (and - since he is an disgruntled ex-OTO member - the OTO storyline) is a hoax, but never even addressed the evidence that he is simply wrong about this (at least based on this specific proof). His last stunt was the "final" solution to the famous riddles in Liber AL. He had a crazily ridculous but at least consistent theory - but it was completely based on alleged changes to some letters in the riddle which were shown (conclusively and once and for all) did never occur outside his fantasy. You can buy his treatise on lulu.com, search for eLGMOR (I can also provide you a spare copy if you like). Anyway, this game was always about "hard evidence", and, I repeat, as in "legal evidence". I think I was and still am always generous in privately sharing my "findings" and I shared a lot with him (you should read his jubilant email when I sent him the Collected Works proofs), so maybe I am a little more involved on a personal level (especially since I have been called an "OTO whore" by him, which of course is utter nonsense) but I enjoyed it a lot to let him defend his theories. Now, in the middle of the chess game, he changes the common chess rules and from now on it will be about - well, not legal evidence but about ... well, you read it and liked it. Which is all okay and right, but not what we were "fighting" about with him for the last 6 years. So, you are missing a lot. But you came in time for the new game.

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3718
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

what am i missing?

To expand on what arthur just said:

As those of us who have been around for a while know, RTC is a notorious fantasist and liar. Last year, he produced an unusually fatuous "solution" to the AL II:76 cipher, to near-universal laughing, pointing, and derision.

His schtick is "discrediting" (without ever getting around to providing any evidence, only very tendentious claims) Crowley's Cairo "reception" story of the origins of AL, claiming that "Ol' Fakey" fabricated the whole story, and the manuscript, many years after 1904 (or, sometimes, two years before 1904, but definitely not in 1904 on his honeymoon).

All this, while simultaneously claiming that AL includes profound, world-shaking occult revelations that Crowley missed, and that only he, RTC, can explain.

He promised to release, by the end of 2020, some sort of physical device called the Horus Toy® (batteries not included) that will provide the user with magickal superpowers. This release has been delayed, like the release of almost everything else RTC has promised. The few promises that have not been delayed have led to results that must be very disappointing to him; see above re laughing, pointing, and derision.


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 468
 
Posted by: @thearthuremerson

An appropriately less permissive notion of "insight"

How so, can you explain?

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 468
 
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Nobody would give a chuckle about RTC's own set of insights, it would just be like f.ex. the dozens of "received" new Liber AL chapters and so on. Does any one really care? If these people have fun with it, why not? The big difference with RTC is - in my view - that he promised not his "insights" or "opinion" (I have often applauded him for asking questions loudly that I and others have been asking for years) but hard facts. As in legal hard facts - I said this before.

Ahhh, okay I didn't fully grok that the few times you said it. So you are saying he is making an "historical" case, which can in principle be falsified, for the same gibberish I just spouted or something similar.

Well hold him to his words brother! And don't let him shake from them.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

For example that he will provide proof that the paper Liber AL was scribbled on was not available in 1904. He then demonstrably photoshopped a watermark, and that was the only proof ever provided. I know in the big scheme of enlightenment for the planet this might be totally unimportant to you (and rightly so), but it would of course have stopped any further conversation about AC's account, and that is what we are talking about. He promised diaries of Rose Crowley to prove his point, of course they never came.

Well this should make it rather simple then, no? Until he can provide falsifiable historical evidence to his claim, all he is doing is simply doing what every other wanna be initiate is doing out there, creating their own unique system with its own unique mythology around Liber Al vel Legis, Crowley, new world upon us kingdom come sort of thing.

Let me know if we can see it this way: Either one of three things can be occurring here if what you are saying is true about RTC:

1.) He is delusional regarding his core design principle.

or

2.) He is a bonafide historian and is open to peer reviewed falsification

or...

3.)he is both, a magician™, playing a linguistic trick™, i.e. he "knows" he may not have proof like he is saying it, but who cares, this is myth and you have to play it like it is real, as long as it is plausible and close to true and you can keep the mystery intact, role with it.

 

EDIT: and it would be fair to question a magician who failed to convince others that his glamour was real.

RTC is fortunate to have the pushback on his claims.

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Either one of three things can be occurring here if what you are saying is true about RTC:

Yup, and it will be 3.

But maybe I am delusional so others are invited to intervene if I gave a wrong summarizing of "the case". It could well be, I have got enough issues that make me wait for the Horus Toy.

Love=Law

Lutz


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 468
 
Posted by: @ignant666

He promised to release, by the end of 2020, some sort of physical device called the Horus Toy® (batteries not included) that will provide the user with magickal superpowers. This release has been delayed, like the release of almost everything else RTC has promised. The few promises that have not been delayed have led to results that must be very disappointing to him; see above re laughing, pointing, and derision.

Well I'm hoping he is staging his own magical hoax and has not succumbed to the demon Choronzon.

My exposure to him has been limited to this thread, but Im familiar with his core claim from other forum controversies elsewhere now that I put two and two together.

You know, projection is an interesting phenomenon. Whatever delusions RTC could have (and I say *could have, not as a diagnostic just as a thought experiment possibility), it would be those delusions specifically that he would pro-scribe to Crowley, the object of his anti-thesis.

Since I agreed with the brief and without full context summary he mentioned in this thread about magick as stage-craft and Crowley, I see how it can also be apropos to what he is doing too, stage craft.

I have not read his books or even consumed a synopsis other than through chatter with others, but if you believe he is delusional, his writings about Crowley would be as if confessions from RTC's own secret self.

All rites reversed, hehe. always loved that line.

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6328
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

I have not read his books or even consumed a synopsis

RTC's Liber Bogus is (was) available for free download somewhere here on LAShTAL.


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 468
 

this forum is friggin' rad 😜 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 468
 
Posted by: @shiva

RTC's Liber Bogus is (was) available for free download somewhere here on LAShTAL.

And thus...the final secret of Mage-ick; viral marketing, was revealed by the order chiefs. 🙂 🙂 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
hadgigegenraum
(@hadgigegenraum)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 387
 

@sangewanchuck56

Then buy the books, and then report back!


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6328
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

And thus...the final secret of Mage-ick

No, no. The final secret has not been revealed (yet). It is a serial offering. Each book in the series offers to expose or reveal the ultimate secret ... but then presents a cliff-hanger wherein the reader must wait either for the next book or an Appendix to be published in some future volume.

We were due for two or three books last year, but the series got postponed, aborted, or otherwise derailed, with no specific reason, after only one book (eLGMOR) was issued..

By the way, "mage-ick" is actually spelled MagiCole. As in the Magi-Cole Hair. One needs to keep the nouns, verbs, and titles in line, even if you're losing your mind in the process (which, after all, is the goal of all our mystical endeavors).

 


ReplyQuote
RTC
 RTC
(@therealrtc)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 349
 

@the_real_simon_iff - "... especially since I have been called an "OTO whore" by him, which of course is utter nonsense" - Ha ha ha ha ha!!!  I'm rather disappointed to concede that this gem did not emanate from the Thrice-Great Magicole Hair, but, whosoever did utter it is talking utter nonsense. 'Otto-bine' is infinitely more apt.

"Well, the best thing about that is that @lashtal might someday feel again like publishing his "Cairo Book" after it is now clear it isn't in the least superfluous and may be needed more than ever (by some at least)." - Aaaaaaaagh! You spoke the definitive guide that dare not speak its name.  Horus help us all  

@sangewanchuck56 - "the final secret of Mage-ick" - Penultimate.  Let's not forget The Horus Toy™

@hadgigegenraum - "Then buy the books" -  In the relatively near future I hope to make all my pseudo-literary shenanigans available as free-to-download digital editions.  Maybe as 'seekers' eventually catch-up with my New Aeonic ideas, other publishers may begin to emulate my New Aeonic distribution notions with their own stables?

All Hail Horus. 


ReplyQuote
Page 8 / 15
Share: