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Azidonis
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Posts: 2964
07/11/2012 9:44 pm  
"Veronica" wrote:
Well, it would seem to me that the most important thing the AC did has not been mentioned.

he actively reminded women that we are by nature sexual beings, that woman have sexual appetites, and that we are not  only orgasmic,  but mulitorgasmic.
He gave us the Scarlet Woman,  and revealed Babalon,  embracing the divine feminine as best he could in the climate of Vicorian England.

I personally think that the liberation of womens sexuality,  and the destruction of vicorian attitudes about sex and pleasure are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

What about Rati, Ishtar et al?

List of love and lust deities


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Anonymous
 Anonymous
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07/11/2012 10:24 pm  

What about them?

I assert that AC intentionally brought scads of victorian women to orgasmic bliss. 

Maybe Im just a silly girl,  but seriously when all is said and done,  and your on your death bed,  what is going to make a man really happy with himself (rightfully so!) then to know that through his caressess, kisses, embraces, and modes of pkeasure,  that he was the messenger of the most important message of all.

The archtypes of eros,  in all the forms have always been there for those who look,
But AC wore a Purple Suit,  and brought those teachings to life.


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Azidonis
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Posts: 2964
07/11/2012 10:56 pm  
"Veronica" wrote:
What about them?

I assert that AC intentionally brought scads of victorian women to orgasmic bliss. 

Surely no one else did that...


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5028
07/11/2012 10:59 pm  
"Azidonis" wrote:
Surely no one else did that...

Surely!


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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Posts: 2964
07/11/2012 11:02 pm  

With great Victorian era orgasms comes great risk of Victorian era STDs...


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Anonymous
 Anonymous
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07/11/2012 11:26 pm  

But AC not only did it with his own body,  with the women he encountered,  but I am most definately sure that he was the messenger in way more, uptight noblesque womens fantasies with out him ever having to have actual contact with them.  Cant catch stds in your mind either.
Uptight ladies need the beast more then anything else.  he has fed fantasies for a very long time,  effectively.
the thought of the nasty things, debauched that he would do......I am sure made many repressed ladies break their bonds,  cast aside the chasity belt,  and wake up all wet.

I just think that is Original, and worthy of fame and note.
o

"Shiva" wrote:
"Azidonis" wrote:
Surely no one else did that...

Surely!

"Azidonis" wrote:
"Veronica" wrote:
What about them?

I assert that AC intentionally brought scads of victorian women to orgasmic bliss. 

Surely no one else did that...


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
07/11/2012 11:39 pm  
"Veronica" wrote:
But AC not only did it with his own body,  with the women he encountered,  but I am most definately sure that he was the messenger in way more, uptight noblesque womens fantasies with out him ever having to have actual contact with them.  Cant catch stds in your mind either.
Uptight ladies need the beast more then anything else.  he has fed fantasies for a very long time,  effectively.
the thought of the nasty things, debauched that he would do......I am sure made many repressed ladies break their bonds,  cast aside the chasity belt,  and wake up all wet.

I just think that is Original, and worthy of fame and note.

You have failed to prove what is original about it.

He's not the only man to ever give women multiple orgasms, or make them creme themselves in masturbation, mental, physical, or otherwise. (See Don Juan, for example.)
The concept of Babalon can be related to many older concepts.
etc.

You may fantasize of letting him have his way with you, but it seems it may effect your judgement in this case.

But hey, if that's all it takes, then PM me. I can help you with orgasms aplenty, for a small fee. For an additional charge, I'll even let you call me A.C.

If you want me to tell you lines like,

"Soak me in cognac
Cunt and cocaine;
Sprawl on me! Sit
On my mouth, Leah, shit!
Shit on me, slut!
Creamy the curds
That drip from your gut!
Greasy the turds!
Dribble your dung
On the tip of my tongue!
Churn on me, Leah!
Twist on your thighs!
Smear diarrhoea
Into my eyes!
Splutter out shit
From the bottemless pit." - (Leah Sublime)

I can do that too, for another additional fee.

I highly doubt that Crowley was the first to do or say these things, though he may have been the first (or one of the first) to actually get it to the printing press (don't recall if he did). If so, that could be considered an originality perhaps.

Edit: I'm pretty sure White Stains was the first work of this type that Crowley published, with repercussions. Then, there was the book with the odd name I can't remember (bag something), about him and a male lover. I'm not sure if Leah Sublime was published in his lifetime.

If one of these works, or another one by him along a similar vein, was published and actually stuck around, and indeed was the first of its kind, then that can be considered original. Yes, the words vein and stuck... truly a sticky subject, not to mention the white matter allegedly covering the initial copies of White Stains.

But if we are just talking about lustful women getting themselves off romanticizing about, or participating in activities with, masculine icons, then it is certainly not a first, though it would make for a potentially interesting separate thread.


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Anonymous
 Anonymous
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07/11/2012 11:56 pm  

wow, 
Your a short sighted nasty arnt you.

I never said,  I fantasied about him at all......

But what ever.
What is original about it,  is that he did it with intention,  magickal intention. 
And wrote about,
And lectured about it,
And talked about in public
And lived it
And published
In the face of a tight arse culture.

I dont need to prove anything,  espicially to a rude little bugger like you.  The proof is in the pudding so they say.  The lines you quote at me dont have the same effect on me as they would for the time they were written.  I am not shockable like they are,  because men like AC,  pushed and shocked.

It takes a very different sort of come on now a days.

My mother and her kin lived, worked and recreated in the very neighborhoods that AC did,  and I personally know from them the effects he had on his local community,  as well as the world at large. 

But again,  what ever.  I was trying to help give some insight and my personal opinion.  I see know that you admit to being just a Sister prostitute,  so I cant begrugde you your turf and any potential clients

"Azidonis" wrote:
"Veronica" wrote:
But AC not only did it with his own body,  with the women he encountered,  but I am most definately sure that he was the messenger in way more, uptight noblesque womens fantasies with out him ever having to have actual contact with them.  Cant catch stds in your mind either.
Uptight ladies need the beast more then anything else.  he has fed fantasies for a very long time,  effectively.
the thought of the nasty things, debauched that he would do......I am sure made many repressed ladies break their bonds,  cast aside the chasity belt,  and wake up all wet.

I just think that is Original, and worthy of fame and note.

You have failed to prove what is original about it.

He's not the only man to ever give women multiple orgasms, or make them creme themselves masturbation, mental, physical, or otherwise. (See Don Juan, for example.)
The concept of Babalon can be related to many older concepts.
etc.

You may fantasize of letting him have his way with you, but it seems it may effect your judgement in this case.

But hey, if that's all it takes, then PM me. I can help you with orgasms aplenty, for a small fee. For an additional charge, I'll even let you call me A.C.

If you want me to tell you lines like,

"Soak me in cognac
Cunt and cocaine;
Sprawl on me! Sit
On my mouth, Leah, shit!
Shit on me, slut!
Creamy the curds
That drip from your gut!
Greasy the turds!
Dribble your dung
On the tip of my tongue!
Churn on me, Leah!
Twist on your thighs!
Smear diarrhoea
Into my eyes!
Splutter out shit
From the bottemless pit." - (Leah Sublime)

I can do that too, for another additional fee.

I highly doubt that Crowley was the first to do or say these things, though he may have been the first (or one of the first) to actually get it to the printing press (don't recall if he did). If so, that could be considered an originality perhaps.


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
08/11/2012 12:50 am  
"Veronica" wrote:
wow, 
Your a short sighted nasty arnt you.

I never said,  I fantasied about him at all......

But what ever.
What is original about it,  is that he did it with intention,  magickal intention. 
And wrote about,
And lectured about it,
And talked about in public
And lived it
And published
In the face of a tight arse culture.

I dont need to prove anything,  espicially to a rude little bugger like you.  The proof is in the pudding so they say.  The lines you quote at me dont have the same effect on me as they would for the time they were written.  I am not shockable like they are,  because men like AC,  pushed and shocked.

It takes a very different sort of come on now a days.

My mother and her kin lived, worked and recreated in the very neighborhoods that AC did,  and I personally know from them the effects he had on his local community,  as well as the world at large. 

But again,  what ever.  I was trying to help give some insight and my personal opinion.  I see know that you admit to being just a Sister prostitute,  so I cant begrugde you your turf and any potential clients

The topic of this thread is originality. You have still failed to prove what was original about the things you cite.

original
1 archaic : the source or cause from which something arises; specifically : originator

You have given no indication or proof that he was the originator of any of the things you cite. If actual proof exists, then certainly it is available, and you would be kind enough to back your case by providing the evidence.

2a : that from which a copy, reproduction, or translation is made
b : a work composed firsthand

I offered this avenue to you, by mentioning White Stains and other works. That is, if he was the first to publish erotic poetry or other writing, without it being condemned and such by the Machine.

3a : a person of fresh initiative or inventive capacity
b : a unique or eccentric person

Most of the pages in this thread deal with definition three, Crowley's unique expression or insights on things.

Your insistence that the people in the Victorian era may or may not have heard of such things, and therefore *to them* it may have been original, is noted. However, historically, such things as you have continually cited do not appear to be in original. It is the equivalent of saying that the people you cite of the Victorian era had never seen a painting before, and the only paintings they saw were done by Victorian painters, so you show up saying that painting itself was originated in the Victorian era, denying the existence of Michaelangelo and all other painters that existed before the Victorian era.

"The proof is in the pudding" won't work here, sorry. Please provide evidence of your claims.

You are sounding like metacarpalruse who, on page 5 of this thread, claimed that Crowley was a reincarnation of Eliphas Levi, and that it is a proven fact. When asked for the evidence, s/he replied,

"metacarpalruse" wrote:
And I tell you with certitude that he was. Much was hidden from Crowley in that incarnation, and for good reason. As to how I know this for a fact, I am not at liberty to divulge. You'd be surprised at many of his previous incarnations.

This is no different from you saying, "The proof is in the pudding". Either the evidence exists, or it does not.


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Anonymous
 Anonymous
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Posts: 0
08/11/2012 2:25 am  

this was the original statement you made, and the one I was directing my response to. What else did he bring to the table??

If you dont see what I am getting at, 

Thats ok with me, 
Im not here to argue or debate, or be insulted.

If you

"Azidonis" wrote:
Okay, so we know he was a pioneer in the mountaineering business. He still holds world records to this effect. We know he was a great amateur chess player, and is even famous in some circles for his moves in that scenario. We know that Crowley claims to have been a spy, and that he supposedly invented the "V for victory", etc. The list could go on with the things Crowley did or ideas he came up with... physically.

But where magick and mysticism is concerned, the science and art of enlightenment, what new things did he bring to the table? We can say the Holy Books are new and unique, but what else?

Thus, the topic of this thread, especially for those of you advanced in the magick and mysticism department, and also those who are scholars of Crowley's life and works. What did he do/bring that was new? Be as specific as possible, please.


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
08/11/2012 2:43 am  
"Veronica" wrote:
this was the original statement you made, and the one I was directing my response to. What else did he bring to the table??

And all I'm saying is that is not original, or new, in the manner which you seem to describe. I've asked you to provide evidence as to how it can be so.

It would be kind of you to provide factual information to support your claim. Thus far, you have only pointed towards his ability to enchant women, and that is not original.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
08/11/2012 4:46 am  
"Veronica" wrote:
wow, 
Your a short sighted nasty arnt you.

I never said,  I fantasied about him at all......

But what ever.
What is original about it,  is that he did it with intention,  magickal intention. 
And wrote about,
And lectured about it,
And talked about in public
And lived it
And published
In the face of a tight arse culture.

I dont need to prove anything,  espicially to a rude little bugger like you.  The proof is in the pudding so they say.  The lines you quote at me dont have the same effect on me as they would for the time they were written.  I am not shockable like they are,  because men like AC,  pushed and shocked.

It takes a very different sort of come on now a days.

My mother and her kin lived, worked and recreated in the very neighborhoods that AC did,  and I personally know from them the effects he had on his local community,  as well as the world at large. 

But again,  what ever.  I was trying to help give some insight and my personal opinion.  I see know that you admit to being just a Sister prostitute,  so I cant begrugde you your turf and any potential clients

"Azidonis" wrote:
"Veronica" wrote:
But AC not only did it with his own body,  with the women he encountered,  but I am most definately sure that he was the messenger in way more, uptight noblesque womens fantasies with out him ever having to have actual contact with them.  Cant catch stds in your mind either.
Uptight ladies need the beast more then anything else.  he has fed fantasies for a very long time,  effectively.
the thought of the nasty things, debauched that he would do......I am sure made many repressed ladies break their bonds,  cast aside the chasity belt,  and wake up all wet.

I just think that is Original, and worthy of fame and note.

You have failed to prove what is original about it.

He's not the only man to ever give women multiple orgasms, or make them creme themselves masturbation, mental, physical, or otherwise. (See Don Juan, for example.)
The concept of Babalon can be related to many older concepts.
etc.

You may fantasize of letting him have his way with you, but it seems it may effect your judgement in this case.

But hey, if that's all it takes, then PM me. I can help you with orgasms aplenty, for a small fee. For an additional charge, I'll even let you call me A.C.

If you want me to tell you lines like,

"Soak me in cognac
Cunt and cocaine;
Sprawl on me! Sit
On my mouth, Leah, shit!
Shit on me, slut!
Creamy the curds
That drip from your gut!
Greasy the turds!
Dribble your dung
On the tip of my tongue!
Churn on me, Leah!
Twist on your thighs!
Smear diarrhoea
Into my eyes!
Splutter out shit
From the bottemless pit." - (Leah Sublime)

I can do that too, for another additional fee.

I highly doubt that Crowley was the first to do or say these things, though he may have been the first (or one of the first) to actually get it to the printing press (don't recall if he did). If so, that could be considered an originality perhaps.

Actually, Crowley was not the first to get these type of things to the printing press.  I think Marquis De Sade would qualify for that.  I'd go so far to say the he would even qualify as the first to deflower that which Veronica insists was virgin until penetrated by A.C.  😉


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
24/01/2013 9:28 pm  

Salutations and 93s
Would i not be correct in saying that the practice of"the magical record"was an innovation of Crowleys,as one of his measures-perhaps the main one-to put Magick on a scientific footing?
I cant find any reference in the Golden Dawns original papers that prescribes it,and in earlier times it would have been positively dangerous!!!There was"the book of shadows"in witchcraft,but that was a book of rituals,not a record of personal activities.
Shalom
ED


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