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Set-Tetu-Ra
(@setguy)
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03/05/2020 10:59 pm  

imo the biggest issue AL has is a major ideological contradictions.  That contradiction can be seen in these quotes. 

Oh one hand: "I,3: Every man and every woman is a star. I,13: I am above you and in you. My ecstasy is in yours. My joy is to see your joy. I,22: Now, therefore, I am known to ye by my name Nuit, and to him by a secret name which I will give him when at last he knoweth me. Since I am Infinite Space, and the Infinite Stars thereof, do ye also thus. Bind nothing! Let there be no difference made among you between any one thing & any other thing; for thereby there cometh hurt. I,29: For I am divided for love’s sake, for the chance of union. I,30: This is the creation of the world, that the pain of division is as nothing, and the joy of dissolution all. I,32: Obey my prophet! follow out the ordeals of my knowledge! seek me only! Then the joys of my love will redeem ye from all pain. This is so: I swear it by the vault of my body; by my sacred heart and tongue; by all I can give, by all I desire of ye all. II,9: Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains. "

On the other hand: II,25: Ye are against the people, O my chosen! II,58: Yea! deem not of change: ye shall be as ye are, & not other. Therefore the kings of the earth shall be Kings for ever: the slaves shall serve. III,3: Now let it be first understood that I am a god of War and of Vengeance. I shall deal hardly with them. III,18: Mercy let be off: damn them who pity! Kill and torture; spare not; be upon them! III,26: These slay, naming your enemies; & they shall fall before you. III,27: Also these shall breed lust & power of lust in you at the eating thereof. III,28: Also ye shall be strong in war. III,51: With my Hawk’s head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross. III,52: I flap my wings in the face of Mohammed & blind him. III,53: With my claws I tear out the flesh of the Indian and the Buddhist, Mongol and Din. III,54: Bahlasti! Ompehda! I spit on your crapulous creeds. III,55: Let Mary inviolate be torn upon wheels: for her sake let all chaste women be utterly despised among you! III,56: Also for beauty’s sake and loves’! III,57: Despise also all cowards; professional soldiers who dare not fight, but play; all fools despise!"

These ideas of all being one but division existing contradicts. These ideas of everyone being a star but some being superior to others contradicts. The idea of seeking Nuit only but going to war contradict. Seeking joy but being hateful and spiteful contradicts. The idea that all is pure joy contradicts the aggression to many other paths.

I'm just not sure how to address these contradictions? Which is Crowley and which Aiwass? Which is truth and which misleading? Do we follow the stellar Nuit or solar Ra?

 

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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djedi
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03/05/2020 11:07 pm  

Every man and woman is a star, but a magus is more than a man or a woman. And what are stars without the astronomer? As to the cosmological 'contradictions,' before @shiva tells us how the Tao we can comprehend isn't the real Tao, I'll be a little more earthbound and say that these statements aren't meant to be true, due to the poverty of our human language, but to be as truthful as possible -- which if done earnestly will always confuse the lower faculties of the mind. Meditate on the 'contradictions' and you will eventually understand them, and in ways ineffable.


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Jamie J Barter
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04/05/2020 12:26 am  
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

These ideas of everyone being a star but some being superior to others contradicts.

But stars come in all different shapes and sizes and show widely varying ranges of magnitude and brilliance; like people, they are not equal and uniform in any respect and it is a fundamental mistake - possibly the first of Aiwass' deliberately engineered 'pitfalls' for the unwary? - to ever consider them to be so.  

Norma N Joy Conquest


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Shiva
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04/05/2020 1:50 am  
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

Oh one hand: "I,3: Every man and every woman is a star.

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

On the other hand: II,25: Ye are against the people, O my chosen!

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

These ideas of all being one but division existing contradicts.

It has been my lifelong tradition to insist that one look at the source (author) of anything, and then assume the point of view of the source and its plane/level. Nuit represents infinite expansion, Hadit is infinite contraction.

One can say, "The book contradicts itself," which is true. In fact, it is mostly the Chapters that contradict each other. "My incense has no blood." "Put blood in the incense (cakes)."

If one were to consult both Venus and Mars, a different story would probably be told by them. We live in a dual world, where everything has its opposite. One is expected to transcend this duality in order to realize the truth of the matter. Says so in a bunch of Scriptures.

"Distinguish not. Extinguish your self." - 333

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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04/05/2020 2:21 am  
Posted by: @shiva

One is expected to transcend this duality

Time to post this again...

tflogoflip

😊


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Markus
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04/05/2020 4:01 pm  

"Contradictio est regula veri, non contradictio falsi."

G. W. F. Hegel, First Habilitation Thesis.


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Shiva
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04/05/2020 6:21 pm  
Posted by: @markus

"Contradictio est regula veri, non contradictio falsi."

Please supply the anecdote in English (with a midwestern, American dialect).

 


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djedi
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04/05/2020 6:29 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

Please supply the anecdote in English

"Contradiction is the rule for truth, noncontradiction for falsehood."


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Markus
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04/05/2020 6:43 pm  

Close enough! "Contradiction is the rule of truth, non-contradiction that of falsehood." As first of Hegel's habilitation theses, the most important. This sentence is the basis of all his thought, which wouldn't be of interest save the fact that Master Therion once remarked - I forget where - that Hegel's philosophy is a means to cross the abyss. Hope to have explained myself!

 

Markus


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dom
 dom
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04/05/2020 11:56 pm  
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

1  These ideas of all being one but division existing contradicts.

2   These ideas of everyone being a star but some being superior to others contradicts.

3   The idea of seeking Nuit only but going to war contradict.

4    Seeking joy but being hateful and spiteful contradicts.

5    The idea that all is pure joy contradicts the aggression to many other paths.

I'm just not sure how to address these contradictions? Which is Crowley and which Aiwass? Which is truth and which misleading? Do we follow the stellar Nuit or solar Ra?

 

1   Some things tend to divide into two somethings.  It happened when DNA strands first existed here merely as asexual bacteria millions of years ago.     Check out the after effects of that.

2  I guess a Black Hole could swallow and crush anything including Stars (i.e. Suns)

3  Are you kiddin'?   Anything that ever developed from prehistoric bacteria (our ancestors)   needed an adversary. 

4  It isn't hate as you know it and it certainly isn't spite.  This is a semantics issue.   

5  Again, imagine if a baby or a child never had aggressive impulses.  It would be a carrot or a potatoe.

This is what the hippies did to your mind with the 'love, love love' bullshit.     

 

Maybe swat up (again?) on the birth of solar systems, biology-evolution and psychology.   

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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05/05/2020 6:17 am  
Posted by: @dom

Again, imagine if a baby or a child never had aggressive impulses.  It would be a carrot or a potatoe.

A Carrot_Childe. How quaint.

Does a potato end with an "e" in The United Kingdom?

Posted by: @dom

This is what the hippies did to your mind with the 'love, love love' bullshit.

Yeah, and look what happened the them. (They cut their hair, put on a tie, and went to work).

They had a point in Love, as others do. Of course, the Love encountered in samadhi isn't going to work too well in Malkuthville, unless it's properly  applied. Acid reveals the Love factor, so the hippies beat that drum ... but they weren't properly aligned; they didn't do the work. That's always a problem when discussing higher states and practical applications with someone who doesn't know and asana from a doorknob.

Posted by: @dom

Maybe swat up (again?)

What is a swat?

 


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dom
 dom
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05/05/2020 8:22 am  

@shiva

 

To swat is to study.

Yeah, and look what happened the them. (They cut their hair, put on a tie, and went to work)

 

I used to be a renegade, I used to fool around
But I couldn't take the punishment, and had to settle down
Now I'm playing it real straight, and yes I cut my hair
You might think I'm crazy, but I don't even care
'Cause I can tell what's going on
It's hip to be square
It's hip to be square
 
................
 
It's not too hard to figure out
you see it everyday
And those that were the farthest out have gone the other way
You see them on the freeway
It don't look like a lot of fun
But don't you try to fight it
And an idea who's time has come
Don't tell me that I'm crazy
Don't tell me I'm nowhere
Take it from me
It's hip to be square
It's hip to be square
It's hip to be square
It's hip to be square

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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05/05/2020 9:45 am  
Posted by: @dom

DNA strands first existed here merely as asexual bacteria

DNA first existed as asexual bacteria?

Posted by: @dom

This is what the hippies did to your mind with the 'love, love love' bullshit. 

Can you remind me - I have obviously had my mind altered - what did they manage to do?  And why is 'love' bullshit - do you not agree it is a vital part of the whole of the law of Thelema (love "under will") even if you don't agree with Agape?

Did you deliberately miss out dealing with

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

6 I'm just not sure how to address these contradictions?

7 Which is Crowley and which Aiwass?

8 Which is truth and which misleading?

9 Do we follow the stellar Nuit or solar Ra?

or maybe just forgot? (For example: I don't see why #9 should entail mutual exclusivity, myself).

N Joy

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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05/05/2020 1:41 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

but they weren't properly aligned; they didn't do the work. That's always a problem when discussing higher states and practical applications with someone who doesn't know and asana from a doorknob

At least let us know what you mean by "properly aligned", "the work" and "practical applications". You use these terms a lot, I'm sure its important but I don't quite understand what you're saying.


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dom
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05/05/2020 6:52 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

Acid reveals the Love factor, so the hippies beat that drum ... but they weren't properly aligned; they didn't do the work.

Which work?  You're generalizing of course?

 

 

@jamiebarter

DNA first existed as asexual bacteria?

 

Yes 3.5 billion years ago in the murky deep, genes existed and managed to create the first ever cell which cloned itself and on and on for2 billion years.  Then 2 cells accidentally merged, their genes combining and that merged-cell cloned itself but it's offsprings had 2 parents, we call this process 'sex'.

 

Can you remind me - I have obviously had my mind altered - what did they manage to do?  And why is 'love' bullshit - do you not agree it is a vital part of the whole of the law of Thelema (love "under will") even if you don't agree with Agape?

I've already said enough about the confusion involving hate and aggression and love.  

 

2:58-2:60 AL was perhaps a prophecy of the mistake of the hippies, as it were. 

 

  1. Yea! deem not of change: ye shall be as ye are, & not other. Therefore the kings of the earth shall be Kings for ever: the slaves shall serve. There is none that shall be cast down or lifted up: all is ever as it was. Yet there are masked ones my servants: it may be that yonder beggar is a King. A King may choose his garment as he will: there is no certain test: but a beggar cannot hide his poverty.
  2. Beware therefore! Love all, lest perchance is a King concealed! Say you so? Fool! If he be a King, thou canst not hurt him.
  3. Therefore strike hard & low, and to hell with them, master!

 

Did you deliberately miss out dealing with

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

6 I'm just not sure how to address these contradictions?

7 Which is Crowley and which Aiwass?

8 Which is truth and which misleading?

9 Do we follow the stellar Nuit or solar Ra?

Yeah it's heathen-speak, it's all Aiwass.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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05/05/2020 7:40 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

why is 'love' bullshit

I have written extensively about this concept in my books, and I have gone out of my way to post it here ... someheres in many places. A quick summary ...

There are two types of people at the highest discernible level. One type pushes "Love, Love, Love" as the basis of the supreme mystery. The other type proclaims "Will, Will, Will. Here are some simple differentiating correspondences ...

LOVE (Green outer aura) - Venus

WILL (Black outer aura) - Pluto

The LOVE people are here to teach ... Love (what else?).

The WILL peoplke are here to teach Higher Consciousness.

Yes, the two are interchangeable, but in Malkuthville the LOVERS appear to be wimps, and the WILLERS tyrants or know-it-alls.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

I don't see why #9 should entail mutual exclusivity, myself.

Me neither ... too ... also.

Posted by: @duck

At least let us know what you mean by "properly aligned", "the work" and "practical applications". You use these terms a lot, I'm sure its important but I don't quite understand what you're saying.

Your lack of understanding is understandable but inexcusable. I have written extensively about this concept in my books, and I have gone out of my way to post it here ... somewhere in many places. A quick summary ...

Aligned means all functions are focus on the same thing and going in the same direction. Synonyms include centered, dharana, focused. So with your all. You have no choice but to do your Will.

The Work is The Great Work, and it involves any and all Cl;ass D Liberis, plus whatever one can glean from other spells. There is hope and help in some of them.

Practice Applications means doing something that has benefit on the physical plane (maybe some of the others: Astral, Lower Mental), and is not some impractical, wool-gathering nonsense or Fake News.

These terms and definitions are common concepts, and no sarcasm is inserted to confuse you or anyone else.

 


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Jamie J Barter
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06/05/2020 3:11 am  
Posted by: @dom

@jamiebarter

DNA first existed as asexual bacteria?

 

Yes ...

Oh, OK.

Posted by: @dom

I've already said enough about the confusion involving hate and aggression and love.  

Have you? Oh, OK then.

Posted by: @dom

Did you deliberately miss out dealing with ...

Yeah it's heathen-speak, it's all Aiwass.

Oh, is it?  OK, if you say so...

Posted by: @shiva

Me neither ... too ... also.

Yours agreeably,

N Joy


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Shiva
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06/05/2020 6:00 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Yours agreeably,

You are being very agreeable today.


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frater_anubis
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06/05/2020 1:17 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

You are being very agreeable today.

He has to be agreeable. Paul terminated his account six years ago for numerous infringements of the Guidelines, persistent trolling and other capital crimes.

I'm unsure how he managed to grovel his way back but I suspect a large contribution to the site running costs was involved 🙂

93

Johnny


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lashtal
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06/05/2020 1:32 pm  
Posted by: @frater_anubis

I suspect a large contribution to the site running costs was involved

For the avoidance of doubt, no, that's not the case.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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dom
 dom
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06/05/2020 3:42 pm  
Posted by: @frater_anubis
Posted by: @shiva

You are being very agreeable today.

He has to be agreeable. Paul terminated his account six years ago for numerous infringements of the Guidelines, persistent trolling and other capital crimes.

I'm unsure how he managed to grovel his way back but I suspect a large contribution to the site running costs was involved 🙂

93

Johnny

He's a reformed troll? Oh.  He seems ok now though.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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christibrany
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06/05/2020 4:39 pm  

@dom

Posted by: @dom

e seems ok now though.

Yes, no,

Maybe so?

 

Confusedly yours,

nChris 


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Shiva
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06/05/2020 6:11 pm  
Posted by: @frater_anubis

He has to be agreeable. Paul terminated his account six years ago for numerous infringements

I know all about it. I was right there/here slugging it out with him. Upon his return from exile, he has altered his stance. He is overly polite, which is what we expect from an English gentleman.

However, his posts, with are mostly replies, usuall begin with the word "but." But yesterday, he was avoiding butting and agreeing with his opposition. That is what I meant by "being agreeable" - a one-day, sudden switch ... not a six-year track record.

Posted by: @frater_anubis

I'm unsure how he managed to grovel his way back

It is a common practice for exilees to be allowed back in/on. They even get to use their previous avatar/codename/motto ... but a period of times always elapses. After a second banishment to purgatory, insane people who cannot conform often re-enroll under a new assumed disguise. (see: Alrah, Mayet, RTC)(RTC was not banned, he just assumed a second identity as part of a twisted marketing protocol).

Posted by: @lashtal

For the avoidance of doubt, no, that's not the case.

The Webmaster proclaims the absence of bribery.

Posted by: @christibrany

Confusedly yours,

Don't be confused. Just keep your piece loaded and demand the password of the day if he shows up at your isolated hovel.

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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07/05/2020 3:17 am  

@shiva

Thanks for taking the time to give those answers. I didn't mean to sound completely ignorant, I just wanted to know what you personally mean by those terms seeing as everyone seems to mean something slightly different by the terms they use. Don't worry, I will read one of your books at some point though I can't buy any more books right now and have a few to get through before I buy any more.

I'll now go through your summary:

Aligned: Yes, this seems pretty clear, I think I understand you here.

The work: Yes, the "Great Work" but I won't get into that now or I'll start giving duck-clues again. 😛 You said "they [the hippies] didn't do the work", what "work" did they not do in your opinion?

Posted by: @shiva

Practice Applications means doing something that has benefit on the physical plane (maybe some of the others: Astral, Lower Mental), and is not some impractical, wool-gathering nonsense or Fake News.

Can you give some examples? Something "that has benefit on the physical plane" could be doing the lawn-mowing or, I don't know... microwaving your soup, but I don't think that's what you're talking about. Also give some examples of "impractical, wool-gathering nonsense or Fake News". Sorry to be annoying. 😊 


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Shiva
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07/05/2020 8:03 am  
Posted by: @duck

You said "they [the hippies] didn't do the work", what "work" did they not do in your opinion?

Asana, pranayama, dharana, banishing, record keeping, pratyahara, QBL, stopping thought.

I think a lot of them did divination (Tarot-Astro), and probably some form of invocation. Some might actually have tried astral projection without acid.

Posted by: @duck

Can you give some examples? Something "that has benefit on the physical plane"

The first example is free. After that, you have to mow my lawn. That's practical. For you too, because I don't have a lawn.

EXAMPLE NUMBER ONE
-Free-
Extracted from
The Eve of Destruction
A Tale of Medicine and Metaphysics

This extract is from the ICU (Intensive Care Unit)

ADJUSTMENT
INNER WORKINGS

AT 7:00 PM, the same male, night nurse showed. I told him about the psychologically-disturbed day nurse and asked who I should speak to if I wanted to report this aberration.

"That would be the charge-nurse," he replied. Then he again set about straightening anything that could be bent or twisted out of perfect alignment.

In the wee, dark hours of the morning I fell into a perfect inner alignment. That is, I became fully aware that my body systems were not working properly, and they weren't getting any better. I was drowsy enough with oxycodone, but awake enough to take some action.

Remembering what my wife had recommended, I easily slipped into a meditative state and took a look at my physiological control system.

I was shown a set of four circuit boards, They had the color and consistency of graham crackers, but they were really symbolic of my neurological circuitry. Each one was about five inches on a side.

crackers

It was clearly pointed out that each board represented something in my neurological system, and also represented something within the devic hierarchy ... as well as some entity in the external world. This information was very precise and is summarized in the following Table:

Table I

The Graham Cracker Correspondences

Board

Devic Hierarchy

Neurology

External Symbol

1

Archangel

Central Nervous System

Charge Nurse

2

Solar Angel

CNS-PNS Interface

Night Nurse

3

Dweller on the Threshold

Peripheral Nervous System

Day Nurse

4

Physical Body

Organs

Patient

Note: These correspondences were not developed or assigned

by my conscious mind. This is exactly what I was shown.

Although I was not instructed to do so, it was obvious that I needed to align the circuit boards ... which I did. As the boards became "aligned," there was a sense of proper current flow.

Oops ... there was one problem: The neurotic day nurse had to go. That circuit board was externally damaged.

A little while later the night nurse came in. "Do you know who the day nurse will be?" I asked.

"No," he said, "I won't know that until the morning."

"Then I better talk to the charge nurse," I replied. "I can't take another day of psycho-pathological behavior."

He started to leave, but then turned back. "How about me?" he asked. "Am I giving you any trouble?"

"No," I said. "You're great!"

He returned ten minutes later. "It's all taken care of," he said. "You don't have to worry about that any more."

I relaxed ... and immediately started to feel better

 

 


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dom
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07/05/2020 1:56 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @duck

You said "they [the hippies] didn't do the work", what "work" did they not do in your opinion?

Asana, pranayama, dharana, banishing, record keeping, pratyahara, QBL, stopping thought.

I think a lot of them did divination (Tarot-Astro), and probably some form of invocation. Some might actually have tried astral projection without acid.

Do we know what we are talking about when we use the term 'hippy' which is a sweeping generalization and a mere cultural classification only associated with a tiny tiny period of human history namely 1965 to 1970?  Are we only talking about the kids we saw onscreen when we watched the movie-documentary Woodstock? Are you so sure that none of those kids diarized any of their spiritual practice?

 

The only people who tried to bring scientific understanding to that phenomenon were defrocked-Prof Leary and his friend Dr RAWilson and they used the 8-circuit model in doing so.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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07/05/2020 2:52 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Do we know what we are talking about when we use the term 'hippy' which is a sweeping generalization and a mere cultural classification only associated with a tiny tiny period of human history namely 1965 to 1970? 

Yes, we do: Long-haired, tie-dyed, patchouli-smelling, sprout-eating, Grateful Dead-listening, hacky-sack-playing Jerries. Wooks. If you imagine they went extinct in 1970, all i can say is that the UK is very different than the USA, where they are alive and well today.

"A hippie is someone who looks like Tarzan, walks like Jane, and smells like Cheeta." [St. Ronald Reagan]

They took a lot of drugs, stopped the Viet-Nam War, further loosened already loosening uptightness about sex, made yoga a mainstream thing, and improved America's diet; when they went corporate, they invented modern personal computers, and much of the internet as we know it- credit where due.

But for all the New Agery they inspired, few truly advanced spiritually- the hippie rebellion was a social revolution, to the extent it was a revolution at all.


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hadgigegenraum
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07/05/2020 3:49 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @dom

Do we know what we are talking about when we use the term 'hippy' which is a sweeping generalization and a mere cultural classification only associated with a tiny tiny period of human history namely 1965 to 1970? 

Yes, we do: Long-haired, tie-dyed, patchouli-smelling, sprout-eating, Grateful Dead-listening, hacky-sack-playing Jerries. Wooks. If you imagine they went extinct in 1970, all i can say is that the UK is very different than the USA, where they are alive and well today.

"A hippie is someone who looks like Tarzan, walks like Jane, and smells like Cheeta." [St. Ronald Reagan]

They took a lot of drugs, stopped the Viet-Nam War, further loosened already loosening uptightness about sex, made yoga a mainstream thing, and improved America's diet; when they went corporate, they invented modern personal computers, and much of the internet as we know it- credit where due.

But for all the New Agery they inspired, few truly advanced spiritually- the hippie rebellion was a social revolution, to the extent it was a revolution at all.

All well marketed diversions and traps utilized by the big boys...now run along and get your shot from double-blind Gates, and don't leave the house!


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christibrany
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07/05/2020 3:57 pm  

@ignant666

 

Yeah most hippies around here are smelly white kids with gross (to me) dreadlocks obsessed with Dead and Company and obsessed with weed and acid.  I don't think they do much work of any kind, inner or outer.  Mostly they panhandle and hop trains/buses.

Those are the 'free' or homeless ones.

Then we have the 'successful' ones who usually do something with music, whether it be hosting bluegrass jam sessions or owning interpretative dance studios. 

Around here anyway. 

Then if they get actually successful they tend to cut their hair, wash, and start talking about philosophy and poetry in a condescending, lazy tone.  Yuppies? 

 

In context of the OP we could say they represent internally the conflict between Love (Tiphareth?) vs War (Geburreh?) or Malkuth and Malkuth.


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Posts: 3145
07/05/2020 4:00 pm  
Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

now run along and get your shot from double-blind Gates, and don't leave the house!

Paul closed the COVID-19 thread because of anti-vaxxer nonsense like this; if you have something OT to say, say it, otherwise do your trolling elsewhere.

It is, in its own way, impressive that a person can be stupid enough to push anti-vaxxer bullshit in the face of a pandemic that has killed more than 73,000 in the US so far (by far the largest number of deaths of any country), and is killing many thousands a day across the world.

But it's pretty clear there is zero tolerance for that moronic point of view here, and it has nothing whatever to do with anything under discussion in this thread.


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frater_anubis
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07/05/2020 4:42 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

If you imagine they went extinct in 1970, all i can say is that the UK is very different than the USA, where they are alive and well today.

There's still a few crusty ones about here, if you know where to look for them. They used to travel the south of England in a "Peace Convoy" of beat-up un-roadworthy old buses, vans and the like. They would park up in a field near Stonehenge and sign on for unemployment benefits at the local Department of Health and Social Security office, usually as the "Tibetan-Ukrainian Dance Troupe" currently "resting" or some such

Here's a couple of smart ones at a festival who have apparently invested their DHSS training grant in learning how to make fire using a bow drill - a really usefull skill - while they try and get pregnant and so qualify for a council flat (apartment) and extra benefits

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNQmA2zj914

 


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hadgigegenraum
(@hadgigegenraum)
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07/05/2020 6:13 pm  

Thread got inane quite a long time ago...news alert...Trump just noted the lashtal COVID-19 thread's been closed and ignanty got the last word which Trump the dupe is endorsing...wow...line up for your shots...and no quoting Liber Legis as justification to not go along with the plan....to make lots of money for those that control the media, control the message...control the labs, the universities, own the farms...those who want to out law natural immunity, outlaw cash, outlaw love...and could we just bail the bankrupt banks out for a few trillion more...!

"Be afraid shall be the whole of the Law"

....The Declaration of Independence,  US Constitution, Bill of Rights.... abrogated.... and Thelema without forced vaccination and quarantines is verboten...Ashcroft v. Iqbal means we can lock you up under any suspicion pleased, and your lawsuit to defend your rights is frivolous.... don't dare question double blind peer reviewed authorities or you might end up like...

Jesus

now no swearing....dirty hippies....we have hawks to feed...

~ So all you have left is to sneeze a glad word....Ahhh....choooo......!

smoke the spittle it might get you hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighhhhhhhhh!!!!!

 

 


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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07/05/2020 6:29 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Do we know what we are talking about when we use the term 'hippy'

I do. I was there. The Dawning of the Age of Aquarius. You may wonder what "we" are talking about, because you weren't there. Anything relating to hippies after, say, 1972, is only a leftover memory with copycat tendencies. You see, acid had become abrogate, so the Khemistry changed.

There are undoubtedly true (in spirit) hippies still around today. With God, and his son Jesus, all things are probable. Today, it may be a lineage, traceable back to 1965. Or it may be a copycat who accidentally swallowed some illegal acid by mistake.

For the supreme, ultimate definition of a hippie or hippy, I suggest the reversal investigation: Take one image of an upper class working man in suit and tie, sports car, nice house. He consumes alcohol upon returning from work at some gov agency and probably needs tricylic antidepresents to keep an even keel. He does not engage in psychedelic libation, camping trips, or follow nature or have liberal views.

Now, please reverse all those points.

Posted by: @dom

Are you so sure that none of those kids diarized any of their spiritual practice?

Of course some did. There are exceptions to any rule. I have discovered many exceptions, and I keep them hidden (occulted). Then, every now and again, I post one here and people get all agitated or excited.

They all pretended to meditate (chanting OM), and some were probably undoubtedly into the real thing. But, yes, my assessment is a sweeping generality, speaking generally while sweeping, but as a class of people who wore rainbow clothes and avoided scissors or razors, my assessment of that class' spiritual endeavors (aside from free rides with acid and grass) will cycle through humanity exactly three aeons.

Posted by: @dom

The only people who tried to bring scientific understanding to that phenomenon were defrocked-Prof Leary and his friend Dr RAWilson and they used the 8-circuit model in doing so.  

This statement is loaded with plain old plane-mixing and contains so many possible investigations and alternatives that I must decline comment or reply in order to preserve what little sanity is left to get me through the day.

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

All well marketed diversions and traps utilized by the big boys...now run along and get your shot from double-blind Gates, and don't leave the house!

I nominate this statement for inclusion under the solution posted immediately above "decline comment").

As far as the Threat Thread Topic, one can see the contradictions in AL spread out through the opinions in this forum. Other forumis also display contradictory or opposing viewpoints.

Nothing is going to change.

If a book can be created, making a point.
Then someone else can put glue in the joint.
If a book contains opposing points of view,
then it is perfection, awaiting your review.

Having grasped the opposites, one's (anyone's) task is to transcend them.


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christibrany
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07/05/2020 6:47 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

, I suggest the reversal investigation: Take one image of an upper class working man in suit and tie, sports car, nice house. He consumes alcohol upon returning from work at some gov agency and probably needs tricylic antidepresents to keep an even keel. He does not engage in psychedelic libation, camping trips, or follow nature or have liberal views.

@Shiva

 

I would wager most Thelemites fit squarely in the middle? 

Feet in Hells Heads in Heavens and all that?


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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07/05/2020 7:21 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

Paul closed the COVID-19 thread ...

... you/we have been / are being trolled, and any finesse or cleverness of the bait is lacking.

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

Trump just noted the lashtal COVID-19 thread's been closed and ignanty got the last word which Trump the dupe is endorsing...wow...line up for your shots...

Please stop this raving now.

TROLLUM ALERTIUM

MODERATOR ALERTIUM

RAVING MANIAC LOOSE IN AL CONTRA THREAD

!

 


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The HGA of a Duck
(@duck)
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07/05/2020 7:24 pm  

@shiva

😲 Send the Billy-Goats!


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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07/05/2020 8:29 pm  
Posted by: @duck

Send the Billy-Goats!

!
Ba'ah-

phomet(r)


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2618
07/05/2020 10:44 pm  

Ba'ah - Hebrew - from the Aramaic

 

Strong's Number: 1158 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
בעה a primitive root
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Ba`ah TWOT - 259
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
baw-aw'  Verb
Definition
  1. to seek out, swell, cause to swell, boil up, enquire
    1. (Qal)
      1. to seek, enquire
      2. to cause to boil up
    2. (Niphal)
      1. to be searched out
      2. to be swelling, bulging, swelling out
 
NAS Word Usage - Total: 5
boil 1, bulge 1, inquire 2, searched 1

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dom
 dom
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07/05/2020 11:22 pm  

@shiva

I do. I was there. The Dawning of the Age of Aquarius. You may wonder what "we" are talking about, because you weren't there. Anything relating to hippies after, say, 1972, is only a leftover memory with copycat tendencies. You see, acid had become abrogate, so the Khemistry changed.

Humans on pyschoactive substances (including weed and mushrooms) can be found throughout history.  Were they also "hippies"?  Furthermore there were Graeco-Roman pressures to stamp down sexual -uptightness so likewise, were they "hippies"?  How about The Hells Angels who 'policed' some rock festivals at the time or 'the Manson Family'?

 

For the supreme, ultimate definition of a hippie or hippy, I suggest the reversal investigation: Take one image of an upper class working man in suit and tie, sports car, nice house. He consumes alcohol upon returning from work at some gov agency and probably needs tricylic antidepresents to keep an even keel. He does not engage in psychedelic libation, camping trips, or follow nature or have liberal views.

Now, please reverse all those points.

I was hoping for a sensible scientific discussion on this without generalizations and with a wider viewpoint.   Were "the hippies" a revisitation of situations that once were, here and there, in centuries past?  For example Plato wanted a commune of wisdom-lovers who aim for justice.  That was more than 24 centuries ago. 

 

They all pretended to meditate (chanting OM), and some were probably undoubtedly into the real thing.

 

All?  

Someone somewhere in Israel would've inspired the myth about Joseph and his psychedelic clothes.    

 

This statement is loaded with plain old plane-mixing and contains so many possible investigations and alternatives that I must decline comment or reply in order to preserve what little sanity is left to get me through the day.

I nominate this statement for inclusion under the solution posted immediately above "decline comment").

 

...said the Creationist to the biologist.   Anyway, I want more longhairs in The Senate. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
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08/05/2020 3:30 am  

Apologies for the delay in responding, but I have been in receipt of some bad news concerning a good friend of mine who passed on which rather put things like participating in a forum into some perspective.

Posted by: @lashtal

For the avoidance of doubt, no, that's not the case.

Thanks Paul, for partially clearing this up - I can appreciate your reluctance to respond further, I also want to say that I deeply esteem all of your efforts made with LAShTaL, and achievements in setting it up as such a wonderful resource.

When it comes to my right to reply though, with regard to some of the other posters it's rare to come across such a load of cobblers condensed into one page, however.. Also there seem to be superior odds ranged against me (what Shiva might perhaps call, and participate in, as a "pile-on" ---> chiming straight in there like some sneaky snitch with a "I know all about it. I was right there/here slugging it out with him"). "But" that's fine, it's not unusual; it puts me in mind of and makes me think about what happened at Agincourt, the Spanish Armada, the Battle of Britain...

Posted by: @frater_anubis

He has to be agreeable. Paul terminated his account six years ago for numerous infringements of the Guidelines, persistent trolling and other capital crimes.

I'm unsure how he managed to grovel his way back but I suspect a large contribution to the site running costs was involved

I don't know how I'm supposed to have rattled your cage Johnny, but I don't appreciate your completely unwarranted and unasked-for proactive denigration of my character.  Remind me to strike you off my Christmas card list.  I don't mind fair criticism, but to have to resort to -lies?  That's another matter, and so I demand you either immediately retract your slurs or I challenge you (or indeed anyone!) to produce one whiff of any actual evidence that I was "banished" for "... numerous infringements... persistent trolling and other capital crimes".  What an absolute crock of nonsense:

Purely for the benefit of anybody 'new' who's reading and not that it's any particularly major concern, and bearing in mind that it was about 6 years in the past now - since when nothing - this temporary banishing measure was the result of an unfortunate but subsequently understandable misunderstanding, wherein the impression was given that I had (quite wrongly) questioned Paul's integrity at the time.  This was subsequently smoothed out to the mutual satisfaction of the both of us, I offered my apology for any offence if I had got hold of the wrong end of the stick, and we then both moved on in a perfectly civilized fashion and it has remained water under the bridge ever since.  There has certainly been no silly "grovelling" or "bribery" involved as you appeared to be anxious to convey; that's not my style anyway.  But if you've got anything else negative to say, please come out with it and prove it at the same time, so that I might address it.

I generally am pretty amenable and agreeable, I think most people would find (and nothing to do with any nonsense about "He is overly polite, which is what we expect from an English gentleman.": it's just my wonderfully gregarious and friendly nature, you know) unless I'm provoked to the contrary, when it's a different matter as a matter of course of course.  But even then, life's too short, really....

Posted by: @shiva

However, his posts, with are mostly replies, usuall begin with the word "but." But yesterday, he was avoiding butting and agreeing with his opposition. That is what I meant by "being agreeable" - a one-day, sudden switch ... not a six-year track record.

Are you actually trying to suggest all statements beginning with "But" are in some way inferior?  And I thought Replies are what we're "mostly" supposed to do, this being an actual forum and all? Do you perhaps mean, your problem is that I don't blow my trumpet here every five minutes instead?  (You were wrong anyway: I was actually being "agreeable" because I couldn't be bothered to muster the enthusiasm to take it much further, on this occasion - sorry dom, nothing personal there! Though it's rather ironic come to think of it, "but" I expect you can understand where I'm coming from at the moment, having been accused of being the website's prime troll on several occasions when, if you recall, I was the only one who "stood up" and defended you!) ...

I would return to the current topic, but the conversation seems to have stalled on discussing the de-/merits of hippies for some reason.  The best I can contribute here is to mention that AC was described as a "late Victorian proto-hippy" by some critic/ biographer somewhere, but a more exact reference escapes me for the moment. Sorry 'bout that, all yew fello anally inclined nitpickin' pedantix!

Happy VE day to all, by the way (of anniversary),

N Joy


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posts: 5053
08/05/2020 3:38 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

Ba'ah - Hebrew - from the Aramaic

Say, that's some swift QBL. A person might use this as a document to do almost anything.

Posted by: @dom

Humans on pyschoactive substances (including weed and mushrooms) can be found throughout history.  Were they also "hippies"?

People everywhere eat. Yes, they are also hippies. Hippies eat. But so does everyone else. Said substances are merely one factor in the assemblage of a hip pee.

Posted by: @dom

Furthermore there were Graeco-Roman pressures to stamp down sexual -uptightness so likewise, were they "hippies"?

Same answer.

I gave you a direct experience, and so did Ignant (he reviewed -*the lineage a bit later). Then you dis-assemble (fragment) the hippie protocol and start asking about ancient cultures that shared one of those fragments.

No, they were not hippies. They were Greeks and other people who eat food and power plants.

Posted by: @dom

How about The Hells Angels who 'policed' some rock festivals at the time or 'the Manson Family'?

[sigh]

Posted by: @dom

I was hoping for a sensible scientific discussion on this without generalizations and with a wider viewpoint. 

Are you consuming barbiturates or overdosing on some other type of downer?

First: Why would you be hoping for something sensible about hippies on a thread devoted to internal condradictions in AL?

Second, Ignant and I gave you the straight scoop ... after you confessed to not knowing what a real hippie is. For some reason, this is causing you to thrash around and gnash your teeth.

Anytime you want to get more scientific, just put up a scientific question. But be careful, we don't want two threads locked within a single rev because the topic wandered off into the Summer of Love.

Posted by: @dom

Were "the hippies" a revisitation of situations that once were, here and there, in centuries past?

Less than a decade past. When I was around ~18, we used to drive from The (San Fernando) Valley, over the Hollywood hills, and down into ... Hollywood and The Sunset Strip (which goes west through West Los Angeles).

On the Strip, there was a particular Coffee house. We would go in and look at ... Beatnicks!

They wore sports jackets and had beards. Their clothing was all dark. A beret could be seen here and there. They were a different race of beings, and we were amazed to see such fellows. There were rarely any women. We knew they were philosophers and were speaking philosophy in low, hushed tones.

These spawned the hippies. They took acid, grew longer hair and beards, brightened up their clothing with rainbows, and traded in their cars for school buses.

Posted by: @dom

Plato wanted a commune of wisdom-lovers who aim for justice.  That was more than 24 centuries ago. 

So what? Plato did not wear rainbow togas.

Posted by: @dom

I want more longhairs in The Senate. 

Many of them were longhairs. They make you cut it when you go to Washington.

Why is a Brit trying to mess around with our Senate? Drifting off into politics will not restore this thread to ...

The yins And Yangs in AL


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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08/05/2020 3:58 am  

The Borg cut this out of my Edit ...

maxresdefault 1

And the unpublished Edit reported that the Beatniks hooked up with some hip girls.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Posts: 2618
08/05/2020 4:41 am  
Posted by: @shiva

The Borg cut this out of my Edit ...

maxresdefault 1

And the unpublished Edit reported that the Beatniks hooked up with some hip girls.

It ain't a girl if it ain't got them hips..

That bus is a monstrosity.

Choronzobus 


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Shiva
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08/05/2020 9:11 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

That bus is a monstrosity.

Choronzobus 

Yeah, but it's typical. Well, usually there wasn't a VW bus welded or bolted up top. The insane paint job tells us a lot. Mostly physical-etheric static as the circuits get connected. Then it's followed by flowing patterns (not jagged like the bus), followed by semi-recognizable, or actually recognizable, astral images. The highest manifestation being a mandala. A mandala in the inner vision is the signal that one is coming into (lower) alignment (paying attention, Duck?).

But the bus is electric acid static. Lower than the cartoon plane.

Typical hippie art is more mixing of rainbow colors. One can see the whole range with a Search Motor. I would post a whole bunch of them, but I'm trying to save this thread.

Now ...

Trying a different approach, let's remember that everything zooms around by virtue of the three gunas, except for the first one (guna) that is kinda stable.

Then: Apply the three gunas to the the Chapters.

Perhaps such an application will reveal the three Chapters to be equivalent to the three stages of Dzogchen? If so, that would mean Chapter I is the base/basis/ground.


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dom
 dom
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08/05/2020 11:46 am  
Posted by: @shiva

 

A more proper i.e. scientific assessment (a la Darwin's travels on The Beagle) on this would be more sensible than just 'yeah they were dirty, bearded and ate this or that' crassness. 

Defrocked-Prof Leary's theory of evolutionary biology provides one.  It identifies a left brain which is employed for terrestrial shennanigans and the dormant (future evolution) right-brain which is geared towards E.T. shennanigans.  He specifically called the marijuana and yoga shunning alcohol -consumers (non-hippies) that you described as 'larval' and 'the hippies' as 'post-larval' members of the same grouping but at different stages.  Yes this is an insectoid analogy.  The latter are focussed on opening/activating post-larval circuits.  He also used the term 'evolutionary agents ' for the post-larval humans.  This is what I mean when I say that the mere use of the term 'hippy' without specifics is not scientific but is silly. 

Such a classification could apply to any era in human- history where there was marijuana or psychedelic plants  and/or yoga (perhaps Upper Kingdom Egypt)  however the post-war space-race and other such developments provided the right stimulus for a massive haphazard movement of post-larval striving.    

 

Why is this on topic?   We're (well I am ) discussing the pit of 'Love, love love all you need is love'  They omitted .......'under will'.   Many 'hippy'-types (like a few girlfriends I've had) would be the type to find Crowley but they reach a 'WTF?!' moment when they get around to ...

2:58-2:60 AL

  1. . Yet there are masked ones my servants: it may be that yonder beggar is a King. A King may choose his garment as he will: there is no certain test: but a beggar cannot hide his poverty.
  2. Beware therefore! Love all, lest perchance is a King concealed! Say you so? Fool! If he be a King, thou canst not hurt him.
  3. Therefore strike hard & low, and to hell with them, master!

 

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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08/05/2020 7:18 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Why is this on topic?   We're (well I am ) discussing the pit of 'Love, love love all you need is love'  They omitted .......'under will'.

"They" omitted "Love under Will" because they are of the Love side of the coin (as previously described by me).

Many people are into Crowley and AL. Regardless of any external influence, they will firmly confess that LOVE is the key factor. Hardliners will insist that it's "Love under Will," but there will be no swaying of the "Lover's" insistence.

Now I am a proponent of the Will side of things. If one takes "Right Action" (Will), the resulting state will be Love. But I have learned that the Love-oriented people are not to be discounted or proved wrong because, frankly, there's another side to the Will coin. The Love-oriented folks include people who have carried rifles through swamps in war, so this Love obsession is not limited to hippies.

In any case, Ch I involves abundant Love, while Ch III advocates killing low men. If this sets up a dichotomy ("A division into two contrasting things or parts") in anyone's mind, then they have not yet transcended such differentiations, which AC constantly recommended be resolved so that no difference remains.

Martial Arts, specifically Aikido, are based on a Love philosophy, yet they practice defeat of opponents. They (at the upper levels) have transcended dichotomies and merely go about their businesses, while being attacked, and thus we see (again) that there is hope and help in other spells.


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The HGA of a Duck
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09/05/2020 1:07 am  

@shiva

Thanks for the "example", I guess that could be called practical though I'm sure you'll admit how nuts that might sound to a skeptical person. Could yo still give and example of "some impractical, wool-gathering nonsense or Fake News" just to be sure?

 

Posted by: @shiva

A mandala in the inner vision is the signal that one is coming into (lower) alignment (paying attention, Duck?)

For a while I was seeing something very much like the "Sri Yantra" when falling asleep, though not so much now.

Sri Yantra Smooth 13.5cm

 

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

for the benefit of anybody 'new' who's reading

I'm fairly new here and all I can say is that Mr Barter seems like a friendly chap and his replies have always been encouraging to a noob like me.


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Shiva
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09/05/2020 3:27 am  
Posted by: @duck

Thanks for the "example", I guess that could be called practical though I'm sure you'll admit how nuts that might sound to a skeptical person.

Tough.

Posted by: @duck

Could yo still give and example of "some impractical, wool-gathering nonsense or Fake News" just to be sure?

Trying to make it rain by ceremony or internal means ... when the previous seven attempts have not worked.

Setting up one's lifestyle so that one's hobby (magick, author, artist, musician) is the sole source of one's income.

Announcing that Edwin Arthwaite died ... when he was still alive.

Edwin's death was amusing, hilarious in fact,but is was "fake news" and did nothing to benefit sentient humans, except perhaps to provide a brief moment of release from the drudgery.

Posted by: @duck

For a while I was seeing something very much like the "Sri Yantra" when falling asleep, though not so much now.

What happens as one "falls" asleep can be rather interesting, especially if one is doing some concentration or a similar practice.

Posted by: @duck

I'm fairly new here and all I can say is that Mr Barter seems like a friendly chap and his replies have always been encouraging to a noob like me.

He will now adopt you, and you will never want for anything again.

 


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The HGA of a Duck
(@duck)
Member
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Posts: 649
09/05/2020 5:36 am  
Posted by: @shiva

He will now adopt you, and you will never want for anything again.

Good, I'll remember that in case I die and return as a stray dog.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2618
09/05/2020 11:30 pm  

@duck

 

You meant of course, a stray duck.

 

Which I would adopt in a heart beat. 

 

But unfortunately they are not very social. 

 

They taste good though. 


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