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dom
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01/02/2020 5:04 pm  

3: 17. Fear not at all; fear neither men nor Fates, nor gods, nor anything. Money fear not, nor laughter of the folk folly, nor any other power in heaven or upon the earth or under the earth. Nu is your refuge as Hadit your light; and I am the strength, force, vigour, of your arms.

Many people fear money.  I hear that some people just have to subconsciously chase it away as it were.   A fair amount of those who suddenly become ultra rich via lotteries or inheritances or the like will actually be less rich than they were before they inherited it in no less than (i think it's)  a few years time.  

 

There are bad attitudes towards the notion of 'being rich' which stem form Old Aeon Church attitudes that poverty is virtuous and that 'money is the root of all evil'.   Many such folk think any successful businessman is some sort of conman or right wing fascist.  Is this the attitude that fuels leftists?

 

The fact is an entrepreneur takes risks and is rewarded for such risk and then wealth is generated thereby producing employment opportunities.   Furthermore in terms of occult development (which may interest some here) there is a sephiroth known as Chesed whose Gods are wealth generators.  


Michael Staley
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01/02/2020 6:34 pm  

"Do Communists, Anarchists and Leftists 'fear money'?"

Offer me a few grand and we'll find out. If I run away screaming, leaving the fifthy lucre untouched, then you're bang on the money.

Any reason why you're posting this on LAShTAL, by the way? Seems at first glance to have little to do with the admittedly-wide subject-matter of this website.


dom
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01/02/2020 6:56 pm  

Any reason why you're posting this on LAShTAL, by the way? Seems at first glance to have little to do with the admittedly-wide subject-matter of this website.

@mstayley

Maybe go back and look at what I wrote particularly the opening quote from that LASHTAL -relevant book we call  Liber Al.  I thought you as a business man may have some sort of non sarcastic input on this subject.     


Shiva
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01/02/2020 7:44 pm  
Posted by: @michael-staley

Any reason why you're posting this on LAShTAL, by the way? Seems at first glance to have little to do with the admittedly-wide subject-matter of this website.

"Money fear not." OK, that's an injunction. But it's a pretty bleak topic to discuss, especially with your timely, recurring reverence or reference to Communists, Anarchists and Letfists. You either have some unresolved point to make, or you've got an obsessive hangup with political viewpoints. I can't make the diagnosis either way, but I'll consult my Ouija. Too bad I don't have an Ouija, so you'll have to wait a (long) while. April 1 is kid's stuff compared to how long you'll have to wait.

I recommend self-discovery while you're waiting.

Posted by: @dom

I thought you as a business man may have some sort of non sarcastic input on this subject.

The point is, we're all businessmen in one form or another. The injunction is for the initiate to not worry about funding. Of course, the initiate Crowley did just that. He spent, and rather lavishly, for a long while, then went broke. After that he went bankrupt. Then he got very agitated over not enough money for drugs (in particular). So the injunction, for him, was good in the beginning, questionable in the middle, and more prophetic than injunctive in the late stage.

Maybe he misunderstood the whole money thing. Maybe it was bad advice.

Michael, of course, is just bluffing. Go ahead, offer him, say, ten grand in dollares or poundores sterling. You may also run this test on me. Jamie N Joy would make a good, third, test subject.

On a more serious note, if such a thing is even remotely possible, it's not FEAR OF MONEY in the injunction, it is FEAR NOT THE LACK OF MONEY.

That's what those left-hand folks are about (FEARING THE LACK OF), so they look to the gov to provide for them.


Michael Staley
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01/02/2020 8:02 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Maybe go back and look at what I wrote particularly the opening quote from that LASHTAL -relevant book we call  Liber Al. 

You're quite right. I had overlooked that; my apologies.


djedi
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01/02/2020 8:27 pm  

Are we LARPing again? Maybe if Ignant swings by...

"Money fear not," does not specify who has the money which is to not be feared. Your post assumes it's the reader, but it could very well be everyone besides the reader who possesses the money. Money in your pocket isn't the same as money in someone else's, whether or not Socrates is sitting or standing, and one may be more frightening than the other to your fellow travelers.

To answer your question less fancifully, political people only fear money when someone else has it.


Shiva
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01/02/2020 8:51 pm  
Posted by: @djedi

To answer your question less fancifully, political people only fear money when someone else has it.

Correct. Short - one sentence alone. You are going to upset someone (not me) if you keep up being so direct and rational.


APOSTATES
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01/02/2020 10:11 pm  

MONEY 40+6+50+5+10=111


APOSTATES
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01/02/2020 10:12 pm  

Sorry, am mistaken. MON(K)EY... it is 101 magic.


dom
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01/02/2020 10:14 pm  

You're quite right. I had overlooked that; my apologies.

Accepted.

@shiva

le, it's not FEAR OF MONEY in the injunction, it is FEAR NOT THE LACK OF MONEY.
That's what those left-hand folks are about (FEARING THE LACK OF), so they look to the gov to provide for them.

Left-hand?  I'm talking leftists not 'the left hand'. 

Summing up his Confessions AC stated correctly that sex, money and education will be the three major issues for society to tackle after his death.  In other words circuit 4, circuit 1 and circuit 3 all related to how circuit 2 messes those 3 issues up.  

Money?  Don't buy that which  you don't truly need but you're going to have to know your Will to know what you really need. 

Sex?  Don't be hung up about this physiological need. Women you need to teach men to get over their "brainless desire to possess". 

Education?  Stamp down on all intellectual snobbishness and the brain dead notion that an exam pass and it's associated trophy (piece of paper) is worth anything other than aiding someone's  Will.   Realise that the term education is rooted in the verb 'to draw out'  ie that is the true primary function of 'education'.  

@djedi

"Money fear not," does not specify who has the money which is to not be feared.

I'd say it means if you are already or if you ever become ultra- rich don't let it blow your mind.   I think it's a call to redefine what wealth really is.  See my OP.   Like Christ said build your wealth where moth and rust cannot corrupt. I'd say that AC would agree with that.  


ignant666
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01/02/2020 11:20 pm  

All i have to add is that i have no fear whatever of money, have often made quite a lot of it, and would welcome more if anyone has some lying around they don't need.

I live in genteel academic poverty, but really lack for nothing that i want. But if someone sent me big bales of cash, i am confident i could develop some new wants.

I object to some having nothing, when others have far more than anyone reasonably could spend, but not to the concept of a unit of account and exchange per se. Any future anarchist/socialist utopia will need something to serve this function- barter gets very complex in large groups.

So no fear of, or objection to, filthy lucre.


Serpent 252
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02/02/2020 12:32 am  
Posted by: @nassah

MONEY 40+6+50+5+10=111

Liber CCCXXXIII, The Book of Lies, Falsely So Called, Chapter 54, Eaves-Droppings.

“(...) This is the Report of the Sojourners: THE WORD was LOVE; (23) and its number is An Hundred and Eleven. (...)”

“Notes: (23) L=30, O=70, V=6, E=5=111.”

So

MONEY 40+6+50+5+10=111 = LOVE 30+70+6+5=111

(I had found this correspondence in 1992 e.v., but nothing substantial has come out of it ever since.)


Shiva
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02/02/2020 3:39 am  
Posted by: @dom

Left-hand?  I'm talking leftists not 'the left hand'. 

All numbers are infinite. There is no ...

 


dom
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02/02/2020 11:01 am  

Money is sort of a symbol of  energy or it is actually grease to a machine.      

@ignant666

So no fear of, or objection to, filthy lucre

...he says as he refers to it by using a derogatory term.  These bad attitudes manifest in terms such as 'dirty cash' so on.    

@serpent252

MONEY 40+6+50+5+10=111 = LOVE 30+70+6+5=111

That relates to the following misunderstood and highly misquoted passage (due to Old Aeon feart of money attitudes);

The Bible: 1 Timothy 6:10 : For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows

Note it never said 'money is the root of all evil' but 'the love of' i.e. making a false idol out of it instead of putting God first who is of course the source of all things.


APOSTATES
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02/02/2020 11:21 am  

To this days MONEY stay for PROFIT (prop/cHIT). I see PROFIT (greed) as the root of Restriction in world economy.


dom
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02/02/2020 12:27 pm  

To this days MONEY stay for PROFIT (prop/cHIT). I see PROFIT (greed) as the root of Restriction in world economy.

 

You're crazy.  Pleased to meet you. 


ignant666
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02/02/2020 4:15 pm  

Of course, "profit" is homonymous with "prophet". When one is taking dictation, especially at fairly high speed, there are often transcription errors caused by homonyms- sometimes what is meant is clear from context, sometimes there is ambiguity.

It is possible that this may have occurred with AL, with the grandiose, spiritually minded-AC hearing every instance of the sound-string "prophet/profit" as the former, and never the latter.

Possible examples include:

i:32 "Obey my profit [i.e., the market is Nuit]!"

i:62 "This also is secret: my profit shall reveal it to the wise." [similar to "success shall be thy proof", but more explicitly financial- the Thelemic "prosperity gospel"]

ii:5 "Behold! the rituals of the old time are black. Let the evil ones be cast away; let the good ones be purged by the profit [that is, by the stern discipline of the market system]! Then shall this Knowledge go aright"

ii:37 "A feast for the first night of the profit [e.g., Thelemites must celebrate the night a business "goes into the black" each year] and his Bride" [a reference to the balancing of credits and debits in double-entry bookkeeping- in occult accounting terms, the "bride" of the "profit" is the corresponding "debit entry"; the "0=2" insight is inherent in double-entry bookkeeping]

ii:64 "Oh! thou art overcome: we are upon thee; our delight is all over thee: hail! hail: profit of Nu! profit of Had! profit of Ra-Hoor-Khu! Now rejoice!" [here, the gods are depicted as the source of all holy profit]

ii:78 "Lift up thyself! for there is none like unto thee among men or among Gods! Lift up thyself, o my profit, thy stature shall surpass the stars. They shall worship thy name, foursquare, mystic, wonderful, the number of the man; and the name of thy house 418. " [another Thelemic "prosperity gospel" verse]

ii:79 "The end of the hiding of Hadit; and blessing & worship to the profit of the lovely Star!" [ditto]

iii:32 "Obey my profit [the discipline of the market]! follow out the ordeals of my knowledge [that is, finance]! seek me [money] only! Then the joys of my love will redeem ye from all pain. This is so: I swear it by the vault [n.b.: vaults are where money is kept!] of my body; by my sacred heart and tongue; by all I can give, by all I desire of ye all. "

 

 


dom
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02/02/2020 4:44 pm  

A note to the slow, Ignant is indulging in sarcasm. 


Shiva
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02/02/2020 5:25 pm  
Posted by: @nassah

I see PROFIT (greed) as the root of Restriction in world economy.

Well, look. Anybody in any kind of business (including farmers and well diggers) has to make some form of profit, or there'll be no money for bread and tobacco. It is "excessive profit" that is the boogie-bogey here.

Just as dom points out, the saying is The Love of Money has qualified in first place as the essence of Elvis, Evil.

So none of this really deals with money itself, but with the percentages and the attitudes.

The "Word" of Kali Yuga is Greed. Get used to it - it's our way of life these days.

image
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ignant666
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02/02/2020 5:36 pm  
Posted by: @dom

A note to the slow, Ignant is indulging in sarcasm. 

Never! Especially not about a holy topic, like money.

I was especially pleased with the "in occult accounting terms" passage, and you have to go giving the game away. Kudos for catching on, a sign of your progress.


ignant666
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02/02/2020 5:44 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

Anybody in any kind of business (including farmers and well diggers) has to make some form of profit, or there'll be no money for bread and tobacco. It is "excessive profit" that is the boogie-bogey here.

Or, if one is a disciple of Marx, the distribution of "surplus value" (what Shiva is calling "profit"- the value that is created by labor over whatever a thing was worth before someone worked on it) to persons called "owners of the means of production" (aka "capitalists", "rich folks", "the bosses". etc), who "own" (can get people with guns ("police") to enforce their claims) workplaces, but don't actually work in those places.

Note that if owners do managerial work, Marxists agree they ought to get paid for this like any other worker, but managing and owning the means of production are two different roles.

So all economic systems make stuff worth more than it was worth before by doing labor, but the disagreement is about what happens to that "surplus value" created by labor.

Property law is the most successful example of magick (power attained by the recitation of the correct incantations) in history.


APOSTATES
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02/02/2020 5:59 pm  

Shiva, ("It is "excessive profit" that is the boogie-bogey here.") we both agree on this. And KaliYuga (Black, Wolf, Iron…) has to do with matterial (even money)… but as Energy is Matter so Money is... what?

PROFIT as "prop" (SMK 60) and cHIT 418.


Shiva
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02/02/2020 7:42 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

but don't actually work in those places.

In material and spiritual matters alike, one has to do the work!

In mundane terms, owners who actually get in at ground level and do physical labor are usually appreciated more by the other workers.

In spiritual circles, those who are accused of "false-claiming" of hi-grade degrees are often exposed as having not done the work. Acid trips and armchair polishing while reading Liber 418 do not qualify as "work."

Posted by: @ignant666

Note that if owners do managerial work, Marxists agree they ought to get paid for this like any other worker, but managing and owning the means of production are two different roles.

Note noted. Comment: Yes, of course.

Posted by: @ignant666

the disagreement is about what happens to that "surplus value" created by labor.

Exactly.

Posted by: @nassah

as Energy is Matter so Money is... what?

Power. Energy in a piece of silver, paper, or in (these days) Borg digits.

 


wellreadwellbred
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02/02/2020 10:25 pm  

Well, ignant666, Aiwa$$ dictating AC's BOTL with profit instead of prophet would be wickedly funny, with respect to said AC's nonexistent sense of business acumen, and with respect to the general financial status of those interested in the occult/the esoteric.


dom
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02/02/2020 11:07 pm  

'wrwb

, and with respect to the general financial status of those interested in the occult/the esoteric.

 

Huh?

 You think occultists /Thelemites are all on a Christian Old Aeon money guilt trip?  Why?

Wake up and smell the coffee my fiend.  

@shiva

In mundane terms, owners who actually get in at ground level and do physical labor are usually appreciated more by the other workers.

 

Exactly Ignant thinks there is a difference between management and workforce therefore he hurts. 

 

To pity a man is to insult him~ The Prophet of the Aeon


ignant666
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02/02/2020 11:38 pm  

As to your misunderstanding of what i said: Review; work on reading comprehension, david.

wrwb's joke is about the fact most occultists are broke, despite all the Abramelin talismans and whatnot.


dom
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03/02/2020 12:39 am  

Nope I didn't miss his point.   He is saying that most occultists are poverty stricken.   I'm saying how does he know?   Maybe there are myriad wealthy occultists. 


Shiva
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03/02/2020 6:02 am  
Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

and with respect to the general financial status of those interested in the occult/the esoteric.

Frater Aquarius (Ray Burlingame) said, "You will never see a rich Thelemite."

This is a mixed statement, to which there are several "Yeah,, buts."

Relatively speaking, Bred is correct. Most Thelemites, or Metaphysicians in general, that I have met, are not wealthy. I do not include wealthy people who merely have a hobby-interest in such matters - I have known these, but they were New-Age enthusiasts - there was no sign that they did any work.

Yeah, but there was Jack parsons, Belarion the Magister, who was not super-rich, but he seemed well enough off. Of course, he sold his house so that Elron could run off with the money.

Yeah, but there was Frater Shem, DDS, who earned a big pile every day. Of course, he ran afoul of the law so that he ended up in relative poverty ... not that he didn't have everything he needed or wanted.

Yeah, but there was Karl Germer, Saturnus by design, who wasn't poor. Of course, he got his cache by marrying money ... twice.

Yeah, but surely there's someone you (anyone) knows who is a real Thelemite, who is rich.

Of course, I don't know what Aquarius meant by "rich." Above average (upper middle class)? One to ten million dolls/lbs? Ten million plus+? One of the thirty who own the 50% or 90% of the planetary goods and resources?

But, yeah, most seriousfolks who have really entered the Path have to look twice in their purse before they can afford a sleek, metaphysical book.

Posted by: @dom

You think occultists /Thelemites are all on a Christian Old Aeon money guilt trip?

I didn't read where he typed that. I must have missed it.

Posted by: @dom

Exactly Ignant thinks there is a difference between management and workforce therefore he hurts. 

If I read his typing correctly, he made a distinction between owners and managers. I detected no signs of pain. Maybe I missed that too.

Posted by: @ignant666

wrwb's joke is about the fact most occultists are broke, despite all the Abramelin talismans and whatnot.

It's that Oath of Property, Poverty they all take.


dom
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03/02/2020 8:00 am  

@shiva

Of course, I don't know what Aquarius meant by "rich."

 

It's not digits in a bank account it's how powerful you feel.    A lot of multimillionaires may feel poverty-stricken if they feel looked down on by their trillionaire friends.    This isn't wealth it's greed.  There are some tragic billionaires out there also.  


ignant666
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03/02/2020 12:45 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

It's that Oath of Property, Poverty they all take.

Somewhat related: the roots of the modern academy are in medieval monasticism.

When folks complained about how poorly we were paid (and how poorly the poor bastards still toiling in those groves are paid), i used to point out that when we gave up chastity and obedience, we had to keep something.


christibrany
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03/02/2020 7:13 pm  

I heartily disagree that 'most occultists are broke,' as both my superior in my order, and myself have been comfortably middle-class and speaking for myself, wanting for nothing for years and years now.   That is a sign of successful magick/living...

 

I do however agree that most occultists are not rich.  I would say they are in the middle. 

 

Most people who are rich got that way not by focussing on spiritual or magickal actitivies but on both living miserly and focussing on money.

 

This made me laugh out loud:

ii:37 "A feast for the first night of the profit [e.g., Thelemites must celebrate the night a business "goes into the black" each year


wellreadwellbred
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03/02/2020 7:14 pm  

Yes, I remember one lecturer (a priest) pointing out the medieval monastic roots of the modern academy, and explaining to us students that the monks used to take a walk around the cloister garden, with the hands placed in the small of the back, as a respite and nice break from intense scribal work.

This reminds of Julius Evola in his book Notes on the Third Reich mentioning that "Hitler jokingly used to call Himmler 'my Ignatius of Loyola'". (Source: Notes on the Third Reich by Julius Evola,  First English edition published by in 2013 by Arktos Media Ltd.  - - - https://books.google.no/books?id=kvcs7wee2pIC&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=Himmler+brown+Ignatius+av+Loyola&source=bl&ots=eC9Q2LB_Qu&sig=ACfU3U14q_3CM8kScROk68hfEpYI1HtZSQ&hl=no&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjT4uLm2rXnAhWNxosKHaB1CFkQ6AEwDXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Himmler%20brown%20Ignatius%20av%20Loyola&f=false)  

Said Himmler instructed that his SS-Junkers, officer candidates of the Schutzstaffel (SS), when taking a respite during their training, were to walk with the hands placed in the small of the back. And this walking style did also become noticeable in said officer candidates' civilian life.

Said walking style has some resemblance to the military drill and ceremony position stand at ease.:

b1 829

(Source: The Drill Pad Army Drill Rest Positions - - - http://www.drillpad.net/DPrest(A).htm

 

main qimg c0d9b6969939333945f96852c65b33c7

4 SS-soldiers in stand at ease position.

(Source: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c0d9b6969939333945f96852c65b33c )

With respect to "Do Communists, Anarchists and Leftists 'fear money'?", officer candidates of the Schutzstaffel (SS), were forbidden to lock down their valuables in the officer academy, so as to instill total mutual trust among them.

 

f8a4b290 35bf 4f2d 801f 072938c530af text

"Private Pyle! Why is Your Foot Locker Unlocked?" (Source: Full Metal Jacket, a 1987 war film directed, co-written, and produced by Stanley Kubrick.)


christibrany
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03/02/2020 8:59 pm  
Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Said walking style has some resemblance to the military drill and ceremony position stand at ease.:

But you are not to walk in the at ease position. It is stationary 🙂 

We always secured our gear otherwise it would be 'tactically acquired' or dumped out.


dom
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04/02/2020 12:09 am  

@ignant

 

Somewhat related: the roots of the modern academy are in medieval monasticism.

Their employers the  (Catholic) Church was probably the wealthiest institution ever in European history. 

@christibrany

I heartily disagree that 'most occultists are broke,'

 

The guy Shiva quoted from is probably unemployable.    It's a mindless airy-fairy statement.  Like I said/indicated any vow of poverty is for Old Aeon masochists.   I mean anyone who identifies as a Thelemite is called upon to gather spices, women and exceed the nations of the earth in splendour and besides beggars can't hide their poverty etc.    


Shiva
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04/02/2020 6:43 am  
Posted by: @dom

ike I said/indicated any vow of poverty is for Old Aeon masochists.

[Quote]: "All that I am, and all that I have, is the property of the A.'.A.'., forever." [end quote]

Now this can be discussed, debated, and debunked, but it has a weird way of affecting one's income and assets.

Posted by: @dom

I mean anyone who identifies as a Thelemite is called upon to gather spices, women and exceed the nations of the earth in splendour

I read that line. I even got involved in gathering spices and womens. But I was never "called upon" to do it. The profit, prophet (peace and blessings be upon his magickal name) said/wrote that people should read the Book, and if they found any concepts or injunctions that they felt (felt) applied to them, then they should adopt them.

The Book of the Law was a message from some source, that Crowley felt was bigger than him, to him (the scribe, the prince, Ankh, 666, the demon Crowley).

Now here's how Perdurabo would want you to see it, which is how it is, which is self-verified by me, and can be verified by you (anyone) ...

You go have a chat with your Angel and you write down your own book. You may use your Borg terminal, this is part-way into The new Aeon, after all). And whatever that book says, that's what you're "called upon" to do.

The tendency to become an AL-thumper, and say what we're supposed to do, or what we're all "called upon" to do, is rather ... um, does someone who works crosswords and other puzzles find the word?

Aquarius' statement was probably based on the fact that, as a member of Agape Lodge, all he knew was poor people. These folks scraped deep to gather collections of money to send in support of Crowley's continuing opioid crisis.

Have you read Seckler's reconstructed diary of Jane Wolfe? Anyone and everyone connected to Crowley was broke and sick most of the time. To be a Thelemite in those days was like signing up for borderline poverty. Except for Germer.

And then I cited other examples of well-off thelemites ... even if it all turned into dirt for them.

Today? These days i suggest there are Thelemites who are better off than those olden days. But I'll bet there's not one among the top 30.

 

 


APOSTATES
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04/02/2020 12:40 pm  

Shiva, you already twice mentioned about Crowley's need of money for his medicine ("These folks scraped deep to gather collections of money to send in support of Crowley's continuing opioid crisis.")


APOSTATES
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04/02/2020 12:43 pm  

sorry, it jumped out... let me go on... I think that I read all of Crowley's diaryes but I do not recall to find entries for such need (money for medicine). Could you please (Shiva) refresh my memory?


APOSTATES
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04/02/2020 2:20 pm  

To my knowledge Aleister Crowley did not have problems with financing his medicines (and bad habbits…). At the end of his life there was the World War (II.) and it was difficoult to find heroin. I understood that he has problems with recepies (doctors) for heroin doses (Astma).

So, not MONEY but the mon(K)ey doctors made problems to our ('prop' + cHIT, my reading for cHIT 418 is cHeT, and SMK is the Way) Al. 


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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04/02/2020 3:04 pm  

I think you may be incorrect.

AC was wholly dependent on money from his Caliphornian disciples at the end of his life. Doubtless Shiva will have all the details. I think the place to look for evidence here is not the diaries, but the begging letters.

Karl Marx lived most of his life writing letters begging money off his collaborator, the prosperous capitalist Engels, speaking of "do Commies fear money?"


Shiva
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04/02/2020 4:00 pm  
Posted by: @nassah

Shiva, you already twice

Perhaps you might learn to count properly. You mentioned "twice," but only cited one "mention." If we count carefully, I have mentioned this topic at least five times over the range of threads.

Posted by: @nassah

Could you please (Shiva) refresh my memory?

"The Unknown God" by Martin P. Starr.

Posted by: @ignant666

Doubtless Shiva will have all the details.

I don't know details from donuts. See "The Unknown God" by Martin P. Starr. It's a real eye-opener.

 


ignant666
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04/02/2020 4:25 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

I don't know poop from a pop-sickle.

Posted by: @shiva

I don't know details from donuts.

But can you tell shit from Shinola?

Hint: Not even AC ate shoe polish, AFAIK.

For the young folk and foreigners:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinola


christibrany
(@christibrany)
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04/02/2020 4:40 pm  

@shiva

 

I think it's worth a re-reading now that you mention it.  I last read it when i was un-initiate-ted many moons ago and I think i could glean some more pearls at this point.

Why would anarchists fear money?

They need it to cause their a-narchy . How else are they going to get their supplies?  Of course they could steal them, but it's much more sneaky to order them under an alias or via a proxy. 

 


ignant666
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04/02/2020 4:57 pm  

The goal of anarchists is not a society where folks go around setting off bombs; the idea of the setting off of bombs that anarchists have sometimes done is to create a society where no one wants to set off bombs.

Most anarchists these days agree that "you can't blow up a social relationship", so we don't need so much in the way of "supplies" anymore (other than food, air etc that everyone needs).

This is not to say that very many anarchists are pacifists or anti-violence (though there are some)- it's simply a matter of applying the correct force in the correct place at the correct time.

This principle may sound familiar. Of course, if we could figure out "what is to be done" (to steal the title of a very not-anarchist book by Lenin), we'd all be drinking from the new Public Beer Fountains Of Anarcho-Communism and not worrying about poverty, inequality, and other problems of late capitalism.


APOSTATES
(@nassah)
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04/02/2020 5:39 pm  

I mentioned Aleister Crowley' diaryes, not someone elses research about him. Let me repeat: I did not find this information (to be in shortage of finances for his drugs) in A.C. memoirs. Did he lied about it and he spended the donation of american O.T.O. (and Germer) for heroin (and not for cognac and fine cigars as he noted dully)? 


Tiger
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04/02/2020 6:24 pm  

I remember reading him writing about doing rituals for money. So he must have been short on it at times and not sure where it was going to come from; If .


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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04/02/2020 6:42 pm  

And of course dying with the Abramelin talisman "To find a great treasure" either in his pocket or under his pillow depending on who you believe.

And every biography saying he was very poor by the end of his life, but of course those are "someone elses [sic] research ".

Why anyone would dispute that a person who had been an undischarged bankrupt for more than a decade was broke is beyond me.


dom
 dom
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04/02/2020 7:25 pm  

@shiva

I read that line. I even got involved in gathering spices and womens. But I was never "called upon" to do it. The profit, prophet (peace and blessings be upon his magickal name) said/wrote that people should read the Book, and if they found any concepts or injunctions that they felt (felt) applied to them, then they should adopt them.

That's another way of saying what I meant but anyway.

The tendency to become an AL-thumper, and say what we're supposed to do, or what we're all "called upon" to do, is rather ... um, does someone who works crosswords and other puzzles find the word?

Yeah I agree however you can't deny that the gather spices and women etc is an affront to Old Aeon hermit poverty masochism?

Aquarius' statement was probably based on the fact that, as a member of Agape Lodge, all he knew was poor people.

Well he was bad at making cogent points and probably projected his own issues onto everyone else.

Have you read Seckler's reconstructed diary of Jane Wolfe? Anyone and everyone connected to Crowley was broke and sick most of the time. To be a Thelemite in those days was like signing up for borderline poverty. Except for Germer.

 

Yeah they were all students.  Students are known for living together blissfully in some dive in the worst part of town and eating tv dinners  every night ......for a few years.


dom
 dom
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04/02/2020 7:29 pm  

@christibrany

 

Why would anarchists fear money?
They need it to cause their a-narchy . How else are they going to get their supplies? Of course they could steal them, but it's much more sneaky to order them under an alias or via a proxy.

 

Are you being sarcastic?   I'm talking about attitudes to wealth as I think Liber Al was also in the passage I quoted in the OP. 

 

@Ignant

This principle may sound familiar. Of course, if we could figure out "what is to be done" (to steal the title of a very not-anarchist book by Lenin), we'd all be drinking from the new Public Beer Fountains Of Anarcho-Communism and not worrying about poverty, inequality, and other problems of late capitalism.

 

I feel ya on this but it sounds like typical naïve hippy bullshit fit only for discussion at a stoner-smoke party or in some airy-fairy Philosophy class. 


APOSTATES
(@nassah)
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04/02/2020 7:32 pm  

Jerry Cornelius research found out that Crowley had money (in the box with other documents) under his bed (I am not 100% sure it was Jerry, but it is documented) at the time of his death. His doctor denied him heroin in his last days not the shortage of finances.


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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04/02/2020 8:20 pm  

Since it seems important to you, @nassah , to dispute the otherwise undisputed fact that AC was too broke to pay attention at the end of his life, why not start a thread about this, instead of derailing this one, not that this one has all that much point to it?

Or perhaps you could revive one of the many past threads on the topic of AC's finances?


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