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[Closed] Do Communists, Anarchists and Leftists 'fear money'?  

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djedi
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04/02/2020 8:39 pm  

I hate to contribute to the derailing of a thread, but I was made to recall an amusing argument I heard a long time ago from a confused soul alleging that Crowley wasn't so impoverished at his end, with the evidence being that one of the accounts of his life at Netherwood mentioned what the arguer called a 'coin collection'. I can only imagine that he was referring to Crowley's three yijing divination coins, one of which would have been made of wood.

Even so, just think about the statement, "He can't be that poor. I mean, he has a coin collection."


ignant666
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04/02/2020 9:45 pm  
Posted by: @dom
Posted by: @ignant666

[...] new Public Beer Fountains Of Anarcho-Communism [...]

I feel ya on this but it sounds like typical naïve hippy bullshit fit only for discussion at a stoner-smoke party or in some airy-fairy Philosophy class. 

It is entirely possible that david would not recognize irony if it literally bit him in the ass.

And Brits have the nerve to say Americans don't get irony!


Shiva
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04/02/2020 10:18 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

But can you tell shit from Shinola?

Sometimes.

Posted by: @nassah

I did not find this information (to be in shortage of finances for his drugs) in A.C. memoirs. Did he lied about it and he spended the donation of american O.T.O. (and Germer) for heroin (and not for cognac and fine cigars as he noted dully)? 

As Ignant mentioned, it's not his diaries ... It's his letters ... which were written by him, often in the forms of telegrams. Somebody else's "research" was/is merely a compilation of his letters. They would stand up in a court of Law just as well as diaries.

Yes, yes. if we're going to anal-eyes the details, cigars, cognac, prostitutes, and tobacco were part of the deal. But the opium derivatives came first. you know, the dreadful withdrawal symptoms, and all that.

Posted by: @dom

I feel ya on this but it sounds like typical naïve hippy bullshit fit only for discussion at a stoner-smoke party or in some airy-fairy Philosophy class. 

Ahhh ... Heaven on a wholly futon.

Posted by: @nassah

it is documented) at the time of his death. His doctor denied him heroin in his last days not the shortage of finances.

oh. Okay. Let's revise the Legend: Crowley was a closet millionaire, hiding under the guise of poverty. That's why he begged and demanded money, continually, from the Californians. I suppose we'll need the exact amount of money found in a box under his death bed - The Queen will probably be wanting to collect it.

Posted by: @ignant666

instead of derailing this one, not that this one has all that much point to it?

Mr. White said, "Anarchy would be great." What else do we want?

 


christibrany
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04/02/2020 11:02 pm  

@shiva

Mr White from Breaking Bad?

 

@djedi

 

Depends on the coins! 🙂

But yes it is highly unlikely he would want to practise numismatics looking for just that right rare one, when he could spend it on goodies. 


ignant666
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04/02/2020 11:15 pm  

No, not that one. Maybe Mr White needs a thread of his own...


Michael Staley
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05/02/2020 12:45 am  
Posted by: @dom

I feel ya on this but it sounds like typical naïve hippy bullshit fit only for discussion at a stoner-smoke party or in some airy-fairy Philosophy class.

Over the decades I've got so tired of "hippy" being used as a term of abuse, as epitomised by your quote. I loved the mid to late 1960s. It left a deep mark on me, and there are values from those years that have stayed with me to this day.

So when you use "hippy" as a term of abuse, what are you trying to convey?

 


frater-r
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05/02/2020 2:40 am  

@nassah

_perdurabo_, by Richard Kaczynski, mentions the box under Crowley's bed with hundreds of pounds in British currency ,when he was living in Hastings, at the end of his life. According to Kaczynski, Crowley didn't want to spend any of those funds because it was savings for publishing projects.

 


ignant666
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05/02/2020 2:55 am  

No, it doesn't "mention the box under Crowley's bed with hundreds of pounds in British currency".

Kaczynski says AC, a prolific liar, told Lady Frieda Harris that he had "over £400 in banknotes in a strongbox under [his] bed" (p. 548, no citation of his source for this quote).

If anyone actually found such a box after his death, Kaczynski doesn't get around to mentioning it (neither does any other biographer). He does mention the Abramelin talisman, and a tattered 1939 letter from the Director of Naval Intelligence being found, but no chest with any money.


Jamie J Barter
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05/02/2020 9:30 am  
Posted by: @djedi

one of the accounts of his life at Netherwood mentioned what the arguer called a 'coin collection'. I can only imagine that he was referring to Crowley's three yijing divination coins,

However AC's preferred and usual method of I Ching divination was with yarrow stalks

Posted by: @djedi

one of which would have been made of wood.

?

Posted by: @djedi

Even so, just think about the statement, "He can't be that poor. I mean, he has a coin collection."

Three (two?) coins is a "collection"?

N Joy


Tiger
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05/02/2020 1:21 pm  

“ ”hippy" being used as a term of abuse “
Weren’t they the group that shaked rattled and rolled Mrs Grundy ?


APOSTATES
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05/02/2020 2:27 pm  

This is a sixth decade (terrestral years) that I walk on this Planet (and 46th year's of my study of Crowleyana) and I never feel such a shame (becouse of someone else and I am very much surprised for this!) reading what the people think of Aleister Crowley (filosoph, poet, magician…). He need not my de-fence, his Opus speak for himself. And it is foolish from my side to write this words and be not silent. 


djedi
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05/02/2020 4:45 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

?

"Thou shalt obtain 6 Chinese coins. Five shall be of one metal and the sixth of another." - Liber 216

Six instead of three, my mistake.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Three (two?) coins is a "collection"?

This is one facet of the humor which typifies the anecdote.

Posted by: @michael-staley

So when you use "hippy" as a term of abuse, what are you trying to convey?

I cannot speak to the opinions of Britons on this matter, but the current disdain for hippies in the United States is, from what I've seen, predicated not on the original tenets of their 'scene' (or whatever) but the fact that the overwhelming majority of them sold out after it ended and became corporate shills even more elitist and hypocritical than the predecessors they decried.

You can say that these weren't real hippies but were just middle class kids who decided to spend summer break at Haight street, but that won't gain much purchase today. Most young people do not see even the original hippies as being authentic in any respect.


ignant666
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05/02/2020 5:11 pm  

I had long hair, and even long hair and a beard, a few times in my life, but am not a fan of hippies.

david knows this, and his calling my sarcastic reference to the goal of revolution being Public Beer Fountains "typical naïve hippy bullshit fit only for discussion at a stoner-smoke party" is an attempt to poke fun at my dislike of hippies, and also to mock my infirmities as an elderly man prescribed medical cannabis (sarcasm alert, david!).

To me, hippies are patchouli-smelling, hair-farming, tedious-health-crap-spouting, sanctimonious, fans of wretched music i despise. They did a lot of good in the '60s and very early '70s, but hippies today are either folks stuck in a prolonged fixation on vanished youth, or actually young folks aping a lifestyle from long in the past, like Civil War re-enactors.

The New England punk slang term of my youth for hippies was "fuckin' jerrys" (as in Garcia). Punk kids today call them "wooks" (short for "wookies").


Shiva
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05/02/2020 5:15 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

He does mention the Abramelin talisman, and a tattered 1939 letter from the Director of Naval Intelligence being found, but no chest with any money.

It's really hard to prove a negative. That is, that AC had nothing at the end, more or less, leaning slightly towards "more" (talismans, books, probably a cigar).

Nikola Tesla, once wealthy (more or less), ended his days a pauper. J.P. Morgan, his former patron, had a man follow Tesla. When he snuck out of a hotel and moved into a new one, the man paid his unpaid bill. Obviously, J.P. felt an obligation to look after Nikola, even though he withrew his support from Tesla's projects. Why? Tesla was promoting the broadcast of electricity to homes (no wires), a thing he actually did. Morgan said, "Free electricity? No way! There's no money in that."

Saladin died with only a few coins in his pocket ... not enough even for his funeral. He had given his wealth to his people.

I suppose there are other examples, but the message is clear: Some "great" folks become "great" either by giving it all up for their cause, or by having it taken away. This message is not universal in its application, but it rings true (in general) among spiritual folk, writers, artists, and other folk who don't have a marketable skill to offer in the marketplace of employment.

Posted by: @nassah

He need not my de-fence, his Opus speak for himself

Everybody around here feels the same way. That's why this is The Aleister Crowley Society.

Posted by: @nassah

And it is foolish from my side to write this words and be not silent. 

Oh right. Let's all just glorify the demon Crowley, who apparently had an outward personality that resembles entries in modern texts on psychological disorders.

Most of us know how to tell the difference between frater Perdurabo and the Demon Crowley (AC's words, no less). It seems like you're off on a campaign to Deify the Demon, or at least for us to ignore the truth.

The "truth" is called Crowley-bashing. There is also sometimes. OTO-bashing, Beta-bashing, Trump-bashing, and Germer-bashing. On occasion, I engage in Shiva-bashing, because he needs it and somebody has to do the job.

You imply several decades of familiarity with AC's work. Yet you appear to have not gotten any sense of the relation between Atma (aka Aiwass, Morya, or Philemon) and an Earth-bound Vehicle. By this gap in your understanding, you are opening yourself to Massah-Apostrophe-basing, which may become painfu - considering your apparent attachment to the pure and holy image of the dork.

Look, we are all dorks. Even if we manage to contact something (inside or out there) that has a "holy" (whole, holistic) nature, we still are ourselves in a strange land, and we stumble around, making mistakes or getting into "situations."

Nobody is, or ever has been, pure and holy, except for The Lord Jesus, and even he has been known to be subject to Jesus-bashing.

 


christibrany
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05/02/2020 7:26 pm  

@nassah

 

Pardon my incessant curiosity (one of my traits) but since most of us here love travelling, I was wondering what is the country of your birth?

You of course do not have to answer...

 

 

 


dom
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05/02/2020 7:43 pm  

So when you use "hippy" as a term of abuse, what are you trying to convey?

 

I really need to explain this?  See the context in which I used the term 'hippy' ie naïve bullhsit e.g. putting LSD in the water supply and thereby 'enlightening everyone' kind of crap or talking about existing without money and capital and international markets.  Nothing to do with 'selling out.'

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


APOSTATES
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05/02/2020 9:15 pm  

I was born in Croatia but live in Slovenia (European Union) and of course it is obvious from my spelling of royal british language that this is not my mother language.


dom
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05/02/2020 9:33 pm  

@djedi

No, on the contrary the hippies who 'sold out' basically didn't 'sell out'.  I strongly suspect that they lost the chips on their shoulders, grew up and burst their own hippy Marxist Anarchist bubble for themselves.  A great example of this is revolutionary Jerry Rubin who was a radical activist loon-tune who later became 'an early investor in Apple Computer and by the end of the 1970s had become a multimillionaire.'    

I saw an interview with him on British TV when he had beceome a wealthy investor or something and he (in a moment of divine inspiration as I doubt he was familiar with Liber Al) literally, in typical down to earth neurotic- New Yorker fashion was ranting about the idiots of his own generation who said he 'sold out'  he explained that,   'They fear money.  Why fear money?'

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


christibrany
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05/02/2020 9:44 pm  

@nassah

 

No worries I was just wondering!  

I have been to Croatia a few times for holiday, very beautiful.  My late father had a house in a village called Matulini near Pula.  I would love to go back.

Slovenia I have also heard is nice but I have never technically visited (arriving in the airport at Lubijana to drive to Croatia doesn't count!) I will say the mountain area around there was gorgeous though. 

 

Thank you for sating my curiosity! 🙂

 


Shiva
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05/02/2020 10:11 pm  
Posted by: @dom

I really need to explain this?  See the context in which I used the term 'hippy' ie naïve bullhsit e.g. putting LSD in the water supply and thereby 'enlightening everyone' kind of crap or talking about existing without money and capital and international markets.  Nothing to do with 'selling out.

yES, YOU REALLY NEED TO EXPLAIN THIS. aND NOW YOU HAVE. dO YOU REALIZE THAT YOU ARE CURRENTLLY (Sorry "Caps Lock" was on) exhibiting signs of mental derangement? talk about "stereotyping."  Enough said, for now. If you continue in this vein, however, I shall be forced to intone the sacred mantra reserved for loosened screws:

See a doctor

Posted by: @nassah

it is obvious from my spelling of royal british language that this is not my mother language.

Yes, it is obvious. But, so far, you are doing quite well.

 


dom
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05/02/2020 10:37 pm  

@shiva

"stereotyping."

 

Ok seeing as people can't get the gist of a piece of normal communication this is what I meant by 'hippy'; a radical who drops out of society and tries to create a new money-free anarchist commune  somewhere where 'straight people' won't 'hassle' them (read: escapism).  In other words a naïve fool who stereotypes others and then pushes off into some attempted hedonistic subcultural bubble utopian train- wreck.  

 

In terms of activism and my above description the terms 'punk' and 'hippy' are interchangeable by the way.  A lot of punks  talk a lot of crap about revolution, 'the system' (?)  and anarchy also.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


djedi
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05/02/2020 11:29 pm  
Posted by: @dom

No, on the contrary the hippies who 'sold out' basically didn't 'sell out'.  I strongly suspect that they lost the chips on their shoulders, grew up and burst their own hippy Marxist Anarchist bubble for themselves.  A great example of this is revolutionary Jerry Rubin who was a radical activist loon-tune

Oh? Is that what a hippy is? A 'Marxist anarchist loony-tune'? It's fair enough to say that most of those middle-class kids went home from their Haight-Ashbury adventure and continued on the path pre-ordained for them (becoming professionals), but your assertion that they were all radical crypto-Marxists who went on to surreptitiously infiltrate positions of power borders on conspiracy theorizing.

Shiva may be right about you. I suppose before long you'll start threads raving about the 'Frankfurt School' just as you did about your nebulous idea of fascists (you know, those people you seemed to despise so vocally until you were faced with the prospect of meeting one in the street).

Lay off the Fox News.


dom
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06/02/2020 12:00 am  

@djedi

Shiva may be right about you

 

Yeah yeah yeah.

 

The fact that you attribute hippies to one little place in one country reveals your cluelessness.  

Have you even heard of The Yippies, The Weathermen or the Baader-Meinhoff Group?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


RuneLogIX
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06/02/2020 12:43 am  

Many of the genuine "flower children" exited the cities post 1972 and became pot farmers or roadies. A lot started families and had careers. 

However, the Frankfurt school of Marxism is a fact and American institutions have all but banned right-wing political speech on campus for decades.

As a Thelemic Trump voter myself, you have to be kidding yourself that my opinions are formed, let alone informed, by Fox News, instead of a long serious look at history and my own-self interest at this moment at time.  

A right-wing Thelemic revival is underway and I welcome New Aeon demo job on false notions of Marxism and Abrahamic religions. 

For so called leftists who think Thelema is what they can latch onto by enlarged rectums. Just don't for others to pay for your diapers after your rectum magnus contests.

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


ignant666
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06/02/2020 1:40 am  
Posted by: @dom

The fact that you attribute hippies to one little place in one country reveals your cluelessness.  

@djedi - will bet a dollar this response is triggered by you using the term "Frankfurt School". david is often puzzled by that wooshing noise of a joke going over his head. He will of course deny this, and treat us to the fruits of some quick wikipedia review.

Posted by: @runelogix

American institutions have all but banned right-wing political speech on campus for decades.

This is an absolutely ludicrous statement that could only be made by a person who has not been on an American college campus in decades, if ever.

Right-wing political speech on all American college campuses is alive, well, and very heavily subsidized by the Republican party, and many wealthy private foundations. The University of Chicago and George Mason University are two large, very well-funded, very right wing, American universities.

Posted by: @runelogix

the Frankfurt school of Marxism is a fact

Can you tell us some of the views of this school, and who some of the major figures of it were?

 

 


ignant666
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06/02/2020 1:50 am  
Posted by: @runelogix

For so called leftists who think Thelema is what they can latch onto by enlarged rectums. Just don't for others to pay for your diapers after your rectum magnus contests.

Had missed this paragraph. You might want to review the forum guidelines.

What is a "rectum magnus contest"?

This sounds like some kind of negative reference to folks who enjoy passive anal intercourse. While i am not among them, there is this turn of the century English occultist, who really liked it up the ass (especially from black men and Arabs), that you might want to check out.

His name was Aleister Crowley, or sometimes, when he was anxious to be buggered good and proper, "Alice".


Shiva
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06/02/2020 6:16 am  
Posted by: @dom

normal communication

"Normal"?

Posted by: @dom

my above description the terms 'punk' and 'hippy' are interchangeable by the way. 

"Your Ignant, honor, I object!" Misapprehension will evoke the demon Ignantus, who will soon be taking you to task.

Posted by: @ignant666

What is a "rectum magnus contest"?

It's a scientific competition to see who is the biggest asshole.

(Pardon the French, or whatever lingo it is.)

This competition is "Now showing" on this very thread. It would be improper to name any names, of course.

I guess you were too overawed to re-cite the difference between Hippies and Punks. But then, there's really no need to re-write the same thing all over again.

 


djedi
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06/02/2020 6:38 am  
Posted by: @runelogix

A right-wing Thelemic revival is underway and I welcome New Aeon demo job on false notions of Marxism and Abrahamic religions. 

You think Zion Don and his philosemitic evangelical base are leading the right-wing thelemic revolution against Abrahamic morality? Let me ask you a question: what do the patriarch Abraham, Karl Marx, Sigmund Freud, Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner, and America' greatest ally in the middle east have in common? Makes you think about the entire notion of an American 'right-wing'.

On an unrelated note, the chosen people of the Holy Khazar Khaganate thank you for the thirty-eight billion dollars of your tax money; after all, we evil goyim must reparate God's chosen ones for their genetic brain damage inflicted by the lethal masturbation machines and Dr. Mengele's wall of human eyes.


dom
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06/02/2020 8:04 am  

The OP title is about a quote from Liber Al and whether it relates to certain groups and their attitudes related to that subject.

Jerry Rubin (former Anarchist revolutionary turned investor) on those who said he 'sold out' , 'They fear money. Why fear money?'

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Rubin

 

I think that Danton made  a lot of money in investments also. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


Set-Tetu-Ra
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06/02/2020 6:07 pm  

Funny, as someone who's always been lower on the food chain economically, I always read "money fear not" as "don't worry much about material wealth."

 

"I,31: For these fools of men and their woes care not thou at all! They feel little; what is, is balanced by weak joys; but ye are my chosen ones."

 

Always thought money was one of these woes and weak joys created by mankind. There are far greater things than wealth.

 

"II,20: Beauty and strength, leaping laughter and delicious languor, force and fire, are of us."

 

And for the record I am far from a "leftist" and am fine with wealth divide. 

 

93s

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


Shiva
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06/02/2020 7:50 pm  
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

Funny, as someone who's always been lower on the food chain economically, I always read "money fear not" as "don't worry much about material wealth."

I second that notion.

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

I ... am fine with wealth divide. 

I live near the (USA) Continental divide, and I even know what it is.

However, I have not seen or heard the term, wealth divide, so I'm not certain about what you are fine with. You may wish to explain it to me, but if you do, please use the vocabulary and concepts suitable for a small child.

 


Set-Tetu-Ra
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06/02/2020 7:54 pm  

@shiva

I just mean I am ok with there being economic classes. It's fine if a CEO can afford a better house or car or suit than me. Honestly I'd never want the responsibility of a CEO, they've earned it. But if they are screwing their employees that's not ok, nor should it be ok to manipulate the cost of things like medication and food. 

For instance, I always say I'm not for free healthcare because cost isn't the problem. It's how outrageous and disproportionate the cost is.

 

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


RuneLogIX
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06/02/2020 8:29 pm  

Well personally I'm sympathetic to all forms of debate about economic issues and encourage people to try new ones. I was an early advocate of blockchains for this and still believe it is a strong use case for payments and other things. What I don't like is encouraging medically unsafe behavior as a virtue when it detracts from the natural and blossoming of a human being from the full range of experiences open to them. Average lifespan of such duly noted addicts is 20 years less then the average and I think that society should create barriers to addiction forming behaviors. Those barriers can be lax somewhere else (and they will be). What those adults do to themselves is really none of my business and you would be hard-pressed to find a right wing Thelemite to care. Just ask Ernst Rohm, different strokes for different strokes, doesn't bother me at all and the good Lord knows we have a lot more Rohm's in the making in the current year. Just keep kids and or animals out of your degeneracy and I have nothing but encouragement for you to wilt as you please. 

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


dom
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06/02/2020 8:33 pm  

The title of the thread is a question.   It actually presupposes that the right wing, conservatives and non-revolutionaries do not fear money.  That is not fair and is inaccurate.   A more fitting question would've been 'Who fears money and why?'  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


RuneLogIX
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06/02/2020 10:36 pm  
Posted by: @dom

The title of the thread is a question.   It actually presupposes that the right wing, conservatives and non-revolutionaries do not fear money.  That is not fair and is inaccurate.   A more fitting question would've been 'Who fears money and why?'  

Okay I'll bite. Money is a means to an end and the literal and probably incorrect interpretation would be "do not fear the lack of means to reach your destiny." However, literal interpretations of anything in Liber Al is incorrect to comment upon for the reason that the book is a personal message from the divine to their twinkling little star in the universe and thus it's meaning must be strictly personal. Who fears money? The Plymouth Brethren fear money as the source or cause of all evil in the world. And just like everything else they believed is revealed to be a false and superstitious fear. 

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


ignant666
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06/02/2020 11:08 pm  
Posted by: @runelogix

What I don't like is encouraging medically unsafe behavior as a virtue when it detracts from the natural and blossoming of a human being from the full range of experiences open to them. Average lifespan of such duly noted addicts is 20 years less then the average and I think that society should create barriers to addiction forming behaviors.

So would you say Crowley was more evil, and to be condemned, for being "addicted" to being sodomized in his "enlarged rectum", or for being literally addicted to heroin for most of his life?

Posted by: @runelogix

Just ask Ernst Rohm, different strokes for different strokes, doesn't bother me at all and the good Lord knows we have a lot more Rohm's in the making in the current year.

So you are saying Trumps' America has "in the making" lots of super-gay Nazis who will end up being murdered by their own Nazi pals? I guess you right-wing guys know your own movement best; so are you homophobic, or an admirer of gay Nazis?

 


dom
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06/02/2020 11:40 pm  

@ignant666

 

Ignant do you have any evidence on the Republican Party funding people who make speeches at American  universities? 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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RuneLogIX
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07/02/2020 12:58 am  
WRT AC, I really have nothing to say. He did X, Y, and Z and so what? What does it have to be with my true will? Every day is elementary logic hour with you.
 
Posted by: @ignant666

Taking" lots of super-gay Nazis who will end up being murdered by their own Nazi pals? I guess you right-wing guys know your own movement best; so are you homophobic, or an admirer of gay Nazis?

 

 

 

The entire neo-Nazi movement has been led by homosexuals since at least the 1970's (post Rockwell). The current leader is homosexual Greg Johnson. You can probably tell me more why bug chasers are into that then I can, after all I have to read about this decades after the fact instead of being there. But maybe because it isn't top of your list of talking points is because they are all dead. Dead of AIDS.

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


Shiva
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07/02/2020 3:02 am  
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

For instance, I always say I'm not for free healthcare because cost isn't the problem. It's how outrageous and disproportionate the cost is.

Well, being a physician myself, but retired and being reliant on said medical system, and watching the insurance comps, the pharm boys, the docs, and my behind, I agree with you.

Thomas Jefferson once wrote that "the doctors" must be watched closely, as they had the potential of becoming big-time players. Our present state of medicine is big business. The docs didn't do their banishing well enough, and big biz took over their territory through the HMO, which is an insurance comany!

Posted by: @runelogix

I think that society should create barriers to addiction forming behaviors.

I am a doctor. One of my four specialties was dealing with drug addiction. It was a minor specialty, but I got enough experience to be a "subject expert" for the Calif Gov in "law enforcement" matters. It is my professional opinion that you are either naive or pulling our collective legs.

This "society" you speak of is the same one out there that's been fighting addiction to something for centuries. It's a nice "I think" thought that you thought. Where would you (not society) like to bgin?

Posted by: @dom

A more fitting question would've been 'Who fears money and why?'

That's two questions. The answer to the first is: Nobody, except perhaps some really disordered person of any class, race, or gender.

Since the answer is nobody, it is not possible to answer the second interrogative.

Posted by: @ignant666

So would you say Crowley was more evil, and to be condemned, for being "addicted" to being sodomized in his "enlarged rectum", or for being literally addicted to heroin for most of his life?

All of the above.

 


RuneLogIX
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07/02/2020 4:12 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

 

Posted by: @runelogix

I think that society should create barriers to addiction forming behaviors.

I am a doctor. One of my four specialties was dealing with drug addiction. It was a minor specialty, but I got enough experience to be a "subject expert" for the Calif Gov in "law enforcement" matters. It is my professional opinion that you are either naive or pulling our collective legs.

This "society" you speak of is the same one out there that's been fighting addiction to something for centuries. It's a nice "I think" thought that you thought. Where would you (not society) like to begin?

Oh I totally expect that Doctors love having more customers don't they? Good for the bottom line. I also find the current generation to be despicable but that is neither here nor there. And California government, don't make us all laugh!

I would begin with what I call "old white people" standards: addiction forming drugs, porn, sugar, tobacco, alcohol. Anyone thinking that the damage done from recreational drug use is an acceptable outcome to naive people seeking thrills is both naive and dangerous. It is not an act of love to allow children to experiment with heroin et al. It is shockingly unacceptable everywhere on earth. The Chinese, despite all their other faults, have a clear and perfect policy for drug dealers and a strict policy on the pornography industry which is in their societies best interest. The people of a nation on a whole are children and if they are not cared for, nurtured, and cared for to behave in beneficial ways you have the exact kind of dysfunction you see among a large percentage of black Americans: complete anti-social breakdown and an inevitable mass incarceration for societies protection from out of control people. The last thing these people need is more fentanyl. The people without discipline are no better than slaves.

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


djedi
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Posts: 346
07/02/2020 4:42 pm  
Posted by: @djedi

Are we LARPing again?

(I'm glad I could help us reach the natural conclusion of a dom thread so much faster than nature would normally allow.)

Posted by: @runelogix

The people without discipline are no better than slaves.

But slaves they are! I am unique & conqueror. I am not of the slaves that perish. Be they damned & dead! Amen.

Your hand-wringing pleas in the guise of strong armed assertions that all the poor little children of the world must be guided like sheep by a gentle shepherd do not seem to me very Thelemic. In fact, you sound positively "abrahamic" yourself.

If only there were a political movement financially progressive but socially conservative (so conservative they reach back into the misty nights of ultima thule and the heroic age) and which rejects judaic morality for you to join. Oh well.


RuneLogIX liked
RuneLogIX
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07/02/2020 5:31 pm  
Posted by: @djedi
Posted by: @djedi

Are we LARPing again?

(I'm glad I could help us reach the natural conclusion of a dom thread so much faster than nature would normally allow.)

Posted by: @runelogix

The people without discipline are no better than slaves.

But slaves they are! I am unique & conqueror. I am not of the slaves that perish. Be they damned & dead! Amen.

Your hand-wringing pleas in the guise of strong armed assertions that all the poor little children of the world must be guided like sheep by a gentle shepherd do not seem to me very Thelemic. In fact, you sound positively "abrahamic" yourself.

If only there were a political movement financially progressive but socially conservative (so conservative they reach back into the misty nights of ultima thule and the heroic age) and which rejects judaic morality for you to join. Oh well.

LOL! My Thelema is more Thelemic than thou's!!

 

(that is a joke for the irony blind)

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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07/02/2020 6:59 pm  
Posted by: @runelogix

so called leftists who think Thelema is what they can latch onto by enlarged rectums

Posted by: @runelogix

A right-wing Thelemic revival is underway

Posted by: @runelogix

LOL! My Thelema is more Thelemic than thou's!!

Says the man who says others are "irony blind"- !?!?


RuneLogIX
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07/02/2020 10:01 pm  
Posted by: @djedi
Posted by: @djedi

Are we LARPing again?

(I'm glad I could help us reach the natural conclusion of a dom thread so much faster than nature would normally allow.)

Posted by: @runelogix

The people without discipline are no better than slaves.

But slaves they are! I am unique & conqueror. I am not of the slaves that perish. Be they damned & dead! Amen.

Your hand-wringing pleas in the guise of strong armed assertions that all the poor little children of the world must be guided like sheep by a gentle shepherd do not seem to me very Thelemic. In fact, you sound positively "abrahamic" yourself.

If only there were a political movement financially progressive but socially conservative (so conservative they reach back into the misty nights of ultima thule and the heroic age) and which rejects judaic morality for you to join. Oh well.

In the same text, the use of Liber Al for any type of justification is explicitly disallowed.

27. There is great danger in me; for who doth not understand these runes shall make a great miss. He shall fall down into the pit called Because, and there he shall perish with the dogs of Reason.

 

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


dom
 dom
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07/02/2020 10:53 pm  

@runelogix

The Chinese, despite all their other faults, have a clear and perfect policy for drug dealers and a strict policy on the pornography industry which is in their societies best interest. The people of a nation on a whole are children and if they are not cared for, nurtured, and cared for to behave in beneficial ways you have the exact kind of dysfunction you see among a large percentage of black Americans: complete anti-social breakdown and an inevitable mass incarceration for societies protection from out of control people. The last thing these people need is more fentanyl. The people without discipline are no better than slaves.

 

I see, you envision a sort of Thelemic government were people who know a bit about AC and AL act like the ayatollahs of Iran where a council of clerics override parliament so there is a mock democracy overall?

If that's the case who become members of the chosen council?  Those who spill not one drop of water from a saucer on top of their head as they sit still for an hour?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


djedi
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07/02/2020 11:00 pm  
Posted by: @runelogix

In the same text, the use of Liber Al for any type of justification is explicitly disallowed.

Why should I give a damn what some old scriptures say?

Posted by: @dom

If that's the case who become members of the chosen council? 

Why, we posters on LAShTAL of course. @shiva can be Surgeon General, and I have dibs on Minister of Love.


RuneLogIX
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07/02/2020 11:46 pm  
Posted by: @dom

@runelogix

I see, you envision a sort of Thelemic government were people who know a bit about AC and AL act like the ayatollahs of Iran where a council of clerics override parliament so there is a mock democracy overall?

If that's the case who become members of the chosen council?  Those who spill not one drop of water from a saucer on top of their head as they sit still for an hour?

I envision a return of the divine right of kings as the chosen warlords arise from the ruins of republicanism and re-establish Order in the service of the New Aeon (and my personal point of view is that it will look more like the Roman Empire then not). I also don't expect that to happen until centuries after we are long gone, perhaps in as few as three or four hundred more years, and long after western civilization gets extinguished. I highly doubt they will know or even care about AC, they will know the Law and they will know Nuit, what else more I cannot know.

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


Jamie J Barter
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Posts: 1639
07/02/2020 11:50 pm  
Posted by: @runelogix

In the same text, the use of Liber Al for any type of justification is explicitly disallowed.

Not disallowed here, and certainly not explicitly therefore... the reference is just that it would be dangerous (and greatly so), furthermore with a risk of losing one's sense of balance and falling down, into some sort of pit or something.  Rather like some infirm old age pensioner (and this for missing runes, not justifying anything),

Clarifyingly yours

N Joy


RuneLogIX
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07/02/2020 11:55 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter
Posted by: @runelogix

In the same text, the use of Liber Al for any type of justification is explicitly disallowed.

Not disallowed here, and certainly not explicitly therefore... the reference is just that it would be dangerous (and greatly so), furthermore with a risk of losing one's sense of balance and falling down, into some sort of pit or something.  Rather like some infirm old age pensioner (and this for missing runes, not justifying anything),

Clarifyingly yours

N Joy

Thank you for sharing your opinion. However, as you may have seen me suggest above, literal interpretations of Liber Al are always incorrect.

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


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