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elitemachinery
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A newly released book tells the story of punk band Bad Religion. It's called:

"Do What You Want"

Like their peers, Black Flag, Bad Religion also started a record label (Epitaph Records) and created a huge community of musicians and artists...much like Black Flag did with SST records.

I'm not sure where the title came from, was it the author Jim Ruland? Or was it the philosophy of the band members? I will read this soon and find out. The band members are well educated blokes.

Punk Rock in general always felt like a messy and authentic example of Thelema to me. Unstoppable, a bit ugly, and fun. Hopefully it's a decent book.

Another example of AC's influence? I think so.

Checking amazon and seeing that it has 418 reviews. Ha!

Screenshot 2020 11 02 072851
This topic was modified 1 year ago by elitemachinery

elitemachinery
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I found the book yesterday at Barnes & Noble and started reading it. An easy popcorn read written in SoCal dude-speak about people and places in my home town of Los Angeles. I think I can handle this.

bad

There were three big beautiful hardcover versions of the book on the shelf in the rock n roll section of the bookstore. There in big bright letters,

"Do What You Want."

The SoCal dude-speak version of Crowley's "Do What Thou Wilt."

That's where Crowley belongs. In the rock n roll section or esoteric occult books section..or the biography section. But he has had a great influence on musicians thru several eras and genres of music.


ignant666
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Another punk rock version of DWTW, this time in Canvey Island UK dudespeak: Eddie and the Hot Rods 1977 "Do Anything You Wanna Do", which had an excellent cover on the 45:

image

Song here.

Never a huge Bad Religion fan, but they did the work, as the kids say.


Shiva
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Posted by: @elitemachinery

But he has had a great influence on musicians thru several eras and genres of music.

He did not work directly with music, nor did he expound it. He expounded his mission through the 7th ray, which everybody knows is both Magic and The Ancient secret societies (Arcania). But the 7th ray also applied to Architecture (Masons), Films (you), and Music (Ignant). We'll leave me out of this for now, except to say I tuned in on the Arcania part.

Architects, Movie-makers, and Musicians are able to read Crowley and understand him in their terms. When Ignant came to visit, we looked at some primary axioms around which this all revolves.

The Slowing of Time is a product of correct wu-wei in the martial arts. Ignant said, "Any musician who gets in the groove will tell you that Time Slows Down." (a slight paraphrase)

My wu in the wei of martial arts was duplicated by Ignant on a bicycle in NYC deadly traffic.

There were other points of mutual understanding, But I only have so much time. The point is, real musicians can read Crowley and adapt it to music without joining the A.'.A.'. or OTO.

Posted by: @ignant666

"Do Anything You Wanna Do"

Interestingly, this was UG's position. Of course, he was speaking from an Ipsissimus viewpoint, post-Thelemic and anything else. One doesn't get to that place without trudging through the burning ground, blazing through the causal plane of karma and duality, dropping out in silence, then preaching your Word. Then Liber B comes into play, and the real nature of ultimate reality is gained. It is represented by the Arabic numeral, 0, which we call Zero, the last letter of our working Alphabet.

 


christibrany
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This parade of marionettes reminds of children that want to do what they want.

 

 

Punk is okay. but its a shit show. 

 

Its full of jack boots nazis or vegans and socialists.

 None of them are Thelemites.

 

Must you elders be reminded that Thelema does not mean: 'Do What You Want'?

 

It means Do What  (Your) Thou (True) Wilt?'

 

Is that so hard to understand?

 

 

Its not a kindergarten for degenerate anarchists, republicans, idiots or druggies.

 

Its a school to find what you Soul really NEEDS to do , to make you ascend? 

 

 

 

 


elitemachinery
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Posted by: @shiva

There were other points of mutual understanding, But I only have so much time. The point is, real musicians can read Crowley and adapt it to music without joining the A.'.A.'. or OTO.

This is what really interests me. It's an informal byproduct of Thelema where the people have no idea what they are acting upon, they just instinctively pick it up and take action. And when it happens it's effects are often far reaching and incredible.

For me Thelema operates in a permission-less zone and although the actions may at first seem disruptive and garner the response "wait a minute you can't that" these actions can eventually gain acceptance.

These creative actions are generally so original and authentic they can't be copied. It is generally (in my mind) a non-competitive realm.

Miles Davis, Picasso, Andy Warhol, etc all went off in their own direction and broke all the rules after conventional beginnings. They were originals that cannot be copied. Although their influence was vast across music, film, art and so on. They inspired many to do their own thing and not apologize. These artists to me are examples of Thelema. Yet I don't think any of them were fans of AC's writings.

To me this is a more authentic Thelemite as anyone finding their path this way isn't copying AC or any specific formula and therefore they can't do it 'wrong.' These artists inspire other artists and people and 'monkey see monkey do' free each other up to do the things they really want to do.

The initial reaction, "you can't do that", whether it be a fashion statement or a type of art or music, eventually becomes the inspiration that causes others to take action.

More examples:

Sex Pistols (English punk rock and art fashion movement)

Black Flag (Los Angeles hardcore punk rock and art fashion lifestyle)

Bad Religion (90s punk/art brought more mainstream to every shopping mall and MTV)

These three bands inspired countless other musicians artists filmmakers to take action and Do Whatever The Hell They Wanted To Do.

Billions of dollars has changed hands because of them.

Millions of lives were changed and history has been rewritten as a result.

That to me is Thelema and how it works in the real world with great results.

The initial authentic action causes a wave.

Posted by: @christibrany

Punk is okay. but its a shit show. 

Wasn't that the point? Johnny Rotten hated Pink Floyd and the mega bands of the 70s. Rock stardom was something completely out of reach for poor English kids. They took what was available to them and expressed their view of the world. It worked.

Posted by: @christibrany

Its full of jack boots nazis or vegans and socialists.

Everything becomes something else. You don't have to like it.

Posted by: @christibrany

None of them are Thelemites.

Thank God! Or we'd have Johnny Rotten speaking in Olde English colloquialisms and boring the hell out of all of us.

To call yourself a Thelemite is dangerous. You may be missing the point.

It's like calling yourself an actor. People that call themselves actors usually wait on tables for a living. Better to BE an actor.

Better to BE a Thelemite than to call yourself one. Calling yourself one implies that it goes along with a set of rules and behaviors. It doesn't. It's Thelema. There are no rules but Do What Thou Wilt.

Posted by: @christibrany

Must you elders be reminded that Thelema does not mean: 'Do What You Want'?

 

It means Do What  (Your) Thou (True) Wilt?

Not true. The path to your true will is not immediate. First you do what you want. Then you Do What Thou Wilt if you stick with it. The do what you want phase is the carving out your magic circle and creating the space you need to work. The process can be violent and people are often offended. This is the phase when your father kicks you out of the house.

This is why Thelemites often seem like assholes. They are in the initial process of finding their true will and creating their space. Bumping into things. This is often an experimental process and can be painful. Grave errors can be made.

Do What You Want is the SoCal dude speak version of Do What Thou Wilt. It doesn't matter. The kids obviously got the point. Look at the results.

Every language is open to interpretation and translation. AC's Thelema is stuck in Olde English Victorian times. But true Thelema snuck out on it's own years ago. Artists and musicians and people took it for their own. They didn't need permission.

The Beatles pioneered a new kind of Thelema in the 60s. They changed the world. Punk rock was another phase.

Posted by: @christibrany

Its not a kindergarten for degenerate anarchists, republicans, idiots or druggies.

Is this not the Age of Horus?

Posted by: @christibrany

Its a school to find what you Soul really NEEDS to do , to make you ascend? 

The phrase is DO What Thou Wilt.

You have to start where you are. From the ego and natural impetus. If you take action the rest will follow. If you want to take it that far. And if you stick with it. You may ascend. But it's not required.

 

 


ignant666 liked
Shiva
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Posted by: @christibrany

 None of them are Thelemites.

You may now take your clock to the Ignant repair shop.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

The do what you want phase is the carving out your magic circle and creating the space you need to work.

Right.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

The process can be violent and people are often offended.

Sometime people die.

 


ignant666
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Unfortunately much too anxious over terrestrial political matters to offer any clock-cleaning services at this time; i think that @elitemachinery has done a good job here anyway.


toadstoolwe
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@ignant666 I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, but I think President Trump has the election nailed.


ignant666
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We shall see, shan't we.

Your chickens currently not looking so hatch-y, but it ain't over til it's over.


toadstoolwe
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@ignant666  It will never be over.  Eternal Conflict is in the offing.


ignant666
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Yes, it does seem likely that the future may resemble all past human history; thank you for that tid-bit of wisdom.


toadstoolwe
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@ignant666 Sometimes I get lucky.  Do What Thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law, Love is the Law, Love under Will.


elitemachinery
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, but I think President Trump has the election nailed.

Are there any threads you haven't pissed on with your political opinions? Please allow thread to stay on topic.

One thing i've noticed is that when someone truly finds their niche and their true will they become very prolific and impossible to compete with. They tend to create a great volume of work in a very short period of time. Rather than draw competition they tend to garner support from their peers and inspire other to be their own unique selves.

I think it's possible that you could measure this to judge how well one has truly found their niche.

1. Are you wasting energy competing with others in a way that seems to be destructive for both parties?

2. Are you prolific? Inspired to action and working non stop to keep up with the flow of your creative vision?

If anyone is having problems with their creative output, garnering support, or competition, I would say it's safe to say that you're not there yet. Keep digging.

more examples:

Bob Marley - prolific musical artist had his own unique style and vision to bring rasta peace and love to the world. He was controversial politically but impossible to compete with. He was loved by his fans and peers and worked tirelessly until his death.

Keith Haring - artist who had a very unique style and massive output of work. impossible to compete with as his style of art was so unique.

Jon Michel Basquit - same as above

Charles Bukowski - prolific, impossible to compete with, unique, loved by fans and peers, inspired many to do their thing.

Raymond Pettibon - punk artist for black flag who literally defined the hardcore west coast punk movement and also came up with the name and logo for the band black flag. His art is a unique brand of violence and defiant humor and his output and unique style is impossible to replicate or compete with.

here is an example of Pettibon's work:

pettibon

The violence of defiance of the punk movement was in part a reaction of youth to the possibility of nuclear war that leaders like Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher had us all fearing in the late 70s early 80s.

@shiva being very prolific with his writing and teaching is another example. He writes a 300 page book in about 2 weeks and writes in several genres publishing many books.

I guess i'm partial to these types of creative works (artists, writers, musicians) by well known artists but naturally True Will can apply to anything.

 

 

 


christibrany
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Posted by: @elitemachinery

They tend to create a great volume of work in a very short period of time.

Finding your True Will and your Genius is of course a goal of Thelema but I don't think that everyone's True Will would be to 'create a great volume of work.'

I would say one person's True Will might be to be absorbed with Godhead and/or Samadhi and do nothing but Commune?   

Or maybe it is to help foster new growth forests?

 

That wouldn't be a 'great volume' but it would be something? 

 

Edit to say I love Charles Bukowski's work.  It is always entertaining, insightful and deep . I have all of his poems and most of his short stories.

 

Funnily enough, when I Saw interviews with him I couldn't stand his demeanor or voice.  It was kind of icky.    Sort of sickly and overly effeminate. But his writings don't seem that way at all.

Kind of how you could be a huge tough thug but your poems are gorgeous.  You can't really tell the soul from the body much.  I think? 


Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Eternal Conflict is in the offing.

Not "Eternal." Only just as long as Ra-Hoor holds The Seat in The East. Horus is vengeful and Set takes his Seat every evening. If this is the reigning archetype, we may expect conflict at the street level in downtown Malkuth.

Like Perdurabo said, before he landed on the 2,000-year line of blocks, "It could be short or very long, because time is different there from here." (a paraphrase).

Posted by: @ignant666

the future may resemble all past human history

Yeah, there's this other theory. The one that says we are living in a dual-reality world, and nothing will change, ever ... except for the individual who is able to "be in the world, but not of it." It's a one-way scramble for individuals who are tired of two-way streets and head-on crashes.

 


toadstoolwe
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@shiva What about Nietzsche's idea of the Eternal Recurrence?  That all historical events repeat themselves?  Didn't Aliester Crowley name Nietzsche as a Gnostic Saint in Libr LII Manifesto of the O.T.O?  Didn't Crowley write in Libr XV that Nietzsche was a prophet of the Aeon of Horus?  When I use the term "Conflict" I mean the Hegelian Thesis-Antithesis, Even the Advent of The Aeon of Horus is a repetition of an ancient age of Enlightenment 


christibrany
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@toadstoolwe

 

My own two cents.

 

All things recur, repeat.  But it is up to you to see beyond the recurrence and assert your own soul. 

 

In other words, stand above your past lives and learn from them.

 

I used to be in past lives a very nasty man.  And a very weak man. But we learn. 


toadstoolwe
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Granted.  But despite conventional occult/esoteric wisdom, I am not convinced that reincarnation is true, unless you mean by passing genetic codes from generation to generation over a course of millions of years.

 


Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

all historical events repeat themselves?

Yeah. Any superficial student of history can spot the recurring cycles within bicycles, within yugas - if they are told to look for them. But within the individual, repetition of mistakes is called error, or stoopidity, and if this happens too often, a change of perspective is required. Either that, or more tranquilizers.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Didn't Aliester Crowley name Nietzsche as a Gnostic Saint in Libr LII Manifesto of the O.T.O? 

This is all MADE-UP Bullshit. It does not prove Frater Saint N.'. was right or wrong. The answer to accuracy is found in his writings, not in some title bestowed post-mortemly by The Grand Master BafometR.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Even the Advent of The Aeon of Horus is a repetition of an ancient age of Enlightenment 

The Aeon of Horus is a struggle with duality. Look around you (outside). look within you (inside). I see the conflict raging in the streets and in your mind. You are not stable. One wonders if you've even reached the first degree?

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

I am not convinced that reincarnation is true, unless you mean by passing genetic codes from generation to generation over a course of millions of years.

I am of this school of thought. The genetic memory become fully available at Chesed 7=4. Yet even when this is settled, there still remains something more.

 


Duck
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Posted by: @elitemachinery

These artists to me are examples of Thelema. Yet I don't think any of them were fans of AC's writings.

To me this is a more authentic Thelemite as anyone finding their path this way isn't copying AC or any specific formula and therefore they can't do it 'wrong.'

Posted by: @elitemachinery

Better to BE a Thelemite than to call yourself one. Calling yourself one implies that it goes along with a set of rules and behaviors. It doesn't. It's Thelema. There are no rules but Do What Thou Wilt.

Not that I necessarily disagree with this, but why even use the label "Thelema" at all if there is no connection to Crowley and his works? A more generally accepted term among non-occult types such as existentialists might be "authenticity", calling it Thelema may just detract from the freedom that they're seeking.

As you mention, there have been many "doing they're own thing" since the time of Crowley, there were also many before his time. An example would be who I sometimes call "the other Prophet", Arthur Rimbaud, a "magician" or "shaman" of his own kind (I recommend this biography on him, by the way).

One of these "non-occult types" was closest thing to a "guru" I ever had. He was very much into rock and roll, drugs and philosophy and had never even heard of Crowley. Wonder how he's doing...


elitemachinery
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Posted by: @duck

Not that I necessarily disagree with this, but why even use the label "Thelema" at all if there is no connection to Crowley and his works? A more generally accepted term among non-occult types such as existentialists might be "authenticity", calling it Thelema may just detract from the freedom that they're seeking.

The Crowley connections do show up in lyrics of various bands or for example in this the title of the Bad Religion biography "DO WHAT YOU WANT."

Crowley shows up many places in pop culture all the time. Rap artists, rock, punk etc. Many other artists are influenced by AC who never reveal it.

But Thelema, although now a defined religion, is just a word that means Will. I think it's useful to identify examples of True Will in action. Due to Crowley's misbehavior and tabloid fodder lifestyle, juxtaposition-ed with his philosophical and spiritual teachings, Being a Thelemite is often confused with being a jerk, a drug addict, or eccentric monk.

Hence many people who identify with AC and Thelema feel the need to assert themselves in day to day life in an abrasive manner with no point at all, or mimic AC's behavior by aping dated Magick rituals or spouting proper English sayings or writings; All the while missing the point and failing to find their light and love and creative passion or True Will.

Thelema is full of assholes and posers. People who feel the need to create conflict and/or ape AC's bad behavior in some fashion. The more mature ones naturally grow out of this behavior. But it does to me seem to be a consistent theme. I am as guilty as anyone.

I think it's important to find good examples of True Will manifest in the world and how it affects people and communities and history.

@christibrany seemed to suggest that Thelema is a club and these worthless punks ain't in it.

I beg to differ. It is my assertion that Thelema and True Will are not an exclusive club, or even a religion (except in name), but that Thelema and True Will are a phenomenon that can viewed, distinguished, and studied.

It is my assertion that by finding good examples of the phenomenon known as True Will and Thelema that we can learn more about it and how it works, and encourage people to duplicate it in a useful manner that benefits all.


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Posted by: @elitemachinery

Calling yourself one implies that it goes along with a set of rules and behaviors.

Actually, AC introduced a number of "rules" under the label of Thelema. In Liber Aleph, he introduced 2 rules that he recommends as the basis of civil law. In any OTO doc, BafometR lays down so many rules of conduct to be observed when finding (buying) your position in the pecking order that one's head will swoon (when compared to "no rules").

Any person who identifies and/or proclaims them self to be anything (Christian, Thelemite, Taoist), based on a named system developed by other people, is getting caught up in the Super-ego distraction. This is where the ego is enhanced due to affiliation with some cultural phenomenon.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

I think it's useful to identify examples of True Will in action.

In such matters, "Success is your proof," and nothing else. Either it works or it don't. The Beatles, for example, were so successful that they became rich, and "Sirs." Their success is easily defined. They tapped into the coming (soon to prevail) archetypes and stirred the "souls" of millions, because they were expressing some arising meme that was inherent in the collective unconscious (bringing it into the conscious realm).

Posted by: @elitemachinery

Being a Thelemite is often confused with being a jerk, a drug addict, or eccentric monk.

Exactly.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

All the while missing the point and failing to find their light and love and creative passion or True Will.

Exactly.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

The more mature ones naturally grow out of this behavior.

The Outer Order leads to the Inner Order, if one does the work instead of spouting off.

 


elitemachinery
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Posted by: @shiva

Actually, AC introduced a number of "rules" under the label of Thelema. In Liber Aleph, he introduced 2 rules that he recommends as the basis of civil law. In any OTO doc, BafometR lays down so many rules of conduct to be observed when finding (buying) your position in the pecking order that one's head will swoon (when compared to "no rules").

Any person who identifies and/or proclaims them self to be anything (Christian, Thelemite, Taoist), based on a named system developed by other people, is getting caught up in the Super-ego distraction. This is where the ego is enhanced due to affiliation with some cultural phenomenon.

Thelemite sounds too close to Termite or Dolemite or Israelite. I don't think I will be using it any more.

I understand that Thelema is a recognized religion, but as far as I know it is not an organized religion.


ignant666
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Posted by: @elitemachinery

Thelemite sounds too close to [...] Dolemite

Hey, now, watch yourself, son. Ain't nothing wrong with being like Brother Rudy Ray Moore:

https://youtu.be/A5PykP0Esno


elitemachinery
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Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @elitemachinery

Thelemite sounds too close to [...] Dolemite

Hey, now, watch yourself, son. Ain't nothing wrong with being like Brother Rudy Ray Moore:

https://youtu.be/A5PykP0Esno

Ha! I thought of that movie when I said that but never knew what a character that guy was. I also didn't know that he himself developed the character. I thought he just played the character for one movie.

His comedy albums were basically comedy/porn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PvnNmr7ylc

His movies appear to be in the blaxploitation genre ala SHAFT. He's a riot!

d

 


christibrany
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Posted by: @elitemachinery

@christibrany seemed to suggest that Thelema is a club and these worthless punks ain't in it.

What I meant when I said

Posted by: @christibrany

Its not a kindergarten for degenerate anarchists, republicans, idiots or druggies.

and

Posted by: @christibrany

This parade of marionettes reminds of children that want to do what they want.

was to drive the point home that I don't think at any point Want should be confused with Will.

 

Perhaps lots (most) of people begin to find their True Will, and nurture genius after doing what they want long enough, to see how it is ultimately futile, and in a lot of cases detrimental, in other words to get glimpses of the Path and God/the Goal due to their experiences - but the main point of my vinegar was not that they can't find their True Will eventually, it's that they don't speak to the point of Thelema, to me. 


ignant666
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"Wilt" ain't "want", fair enough, but "doing what one wants", rather than what one is told by others to do, is a good way to get started on discovering "WIll".

In my case, there is no doubt that pre-adolescent "you ain't the boss of me" "oppositional defiant disorder" was a, or the, main origin of my interest in Thelema (and anarchism). Eventually, i progressed.

Not all teenage rebels continue rebelling, and evolving, through a lifetime, true, but we should encourage more, not less, of this.


christibrany
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@ignant666

Posted by: @ignant666

but we should encourage more, not less, of this.

Yes and No 🙂 


elitemachinery
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Posted by: @christibrany

but the main point of my vinegar was not that they can't find their True Will eventually, it's that they don't speak to the point of Thelema, to me. 

Posted by: @ignant666

"Wilt" ain't "want", fair enough, but "doing what one wants", rather than what one is told by others to do, is a good way to get started on discovering "WIll".

"Do What Thou Wilt" is fairly self explanatory and appears to be the cream that most people skim off the top of Crowley's teachings.

But Crowley's teachings offer something for everyone. The casual reader or the ardent student, etc.

The longer version:

"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law. Love Is The Law, Love Under Will."

Is likely lost on the average reader perusing a Crowley book, article, or story.

I sometimes think that the people that benefit the most from AC's life and teachings are the people that only scratch the surface, get it quickly, and run.

In this manner no one is excluded, there are no entry requirements, or dues to pay, or issues to argue about. You are free to go, and do, and act, and discover on your own, and make mistakes. There is no wrong way to do it.

Some of the bands and artists mentioned in this thread are likely an example of this.

It's pretty simple really:

Liber Al quotes:

..thou hast no right but to do thy will.
Do that, and no other shall say nay.
For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect.

christibrany
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Posted by: @elitemachinery

delivered from the lust of result,

This is the part that is lost on most people though.   However it is...difficult to act thusly. 


elitemachinery
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 allow me to digress..

Posted by: @elitemachinery

Hence many people who identify with AC and Thelema feel the need to assert themselves in day to day life in an abrasive manner with no point at all, or mimic AC's behavior by aping dated Magick rituals or spouting proper English sayings or writings; All the while missing the point and failing to find their light and love and creative passion or True Will.

Thelema is full of assholes and posers.

Posted by: @christibrany

Its not a kindergarten for degenerate anarchists, republicans, idiots or druggies.

(and)

This is the part that is lost on most people though.

Really? Who are we (myself included...stated above) to judge or assess anyone's way of doing their will?

Posted by: @shiva

In such matters, "Success is your proof," and nothing else.

Well said, Shiva. "Success is your proof." If it works. It works.


ignant666
(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3720
 

I am certainly a "degenerate anarchist", but am a Democrat, may well be an "idiot", and "druggie" is tough to dispute.

And aren't there, even within the strictest possible conception of "traditional"/"orthodox" Thelema, already three different kinds of Thelema, that of the "man of earth", that of the "lover", and that of the "hermit"?

And aren't some criticisms here basically "Well, this and that postulated 'man of earth' [eg, Bad Religion], and this and that postulated 'hermit', [eg, Picasso] do not conform to my understanding of what an A.'. A.'. 'lover' ought to do and be"?

 


christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2941
 
Posted by: @christibrany

Its not a kindergarten

This was the crux- that and the will vs want thing.

It's not a school that's going to hold your hand. You get in what you put out. 

 

I don't care if you are a druggie or an anarchist or whatever, I am saying its not a playground or an excuse to be antagonistic to others. 


elitemachinery
(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 613
Topic starter  
Posted by: @ignant666

I am certainly a "degenerate anarchist", but am a Democrat, may well be an "idiot", and "druggie" is tough to dispute.

I must confess. I started a 12-step program for idiots to help cure my idiocy. But the website is as far as I've gotten.

idiotsynonymous.com

#FAIL

Posted by: @christibrany

I don't care if you are a druggie or an anarchist or whatever, I am saying its not a playground or an excuse to be antagonistic to others. 

I think the entire punk rock movement and it's 45 year history would entirely disagree with your statement.

It's a playground to do just that:

Express yourself freely and be antagonistic to others.

 
Black Flag:
 
 

 

"Rise Above"

 

Jealous cowards try to control
Rise above! We're gonna rise above!
They distort what we say
Rise above! We're gonna rise above!
Try and stop what we do
Rise above! We're gonna rise above!
When they can't do it themselves
Rise above! We're gonna rise above!

We are tired of your abuse
Try to stop us; it's no use!

Society's arms of control
Rise above! We're gonna rise above!
Think they're smart; can't think for themselves
Rise above! We're gonna rise above!
Laugh at us behind our backs
Rise above! We're gonna rise above!
I find satisfaction in what they lack
Rise above! We're gonna rise above!

We are tired of your abuse
Try to stop us; it's no use!

etc.


ignant666
(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3720
 
Posted by: @christibrany

an excuse to be antagonistic to others

I don't need one, just born ornery i guess, and got worse as i got older.

And Thelema has to be a kindergarten for some- "Got to walk before you can run."


christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2941
 

@ignant666

 

You both raise valid points which I largely agree with, I am just having a hard time formulating my thoughts more concisely.  I guess spiritual topics are hard to pin down.


christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2941
 

What about the whole, 'doing your True will means you will not be infringing on the true wills of other Stars' though ?


ignant666
(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3720
 

"Rise Above" is among my personal musical mantras. The lyrics to the chorus

We are tired of your abuse

Try to stop us, but it's no use!

Rise above! We're gonna rise above!

Rise above! We're gonna rise above!

used to be contained in my professional email signature at a certain point before i just had enough and left academia/science behind forever.

Here is a live version from the later "Henry with long hair and Kira on bass" (1984) period (though with worse sound), and here is the indispensable original studio version from the Damaged LP.


David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3217
 
Posted by: @elitemachinery

.

Punk Rock in general always felt like a messy and authentic example of Thelema to me. Unstoppable, a bit ugly, and fun. Hopefully it's a decent book.

Do you know what "punk rock" was?  What's your understanding of it?

 

The reason why I ask is that facts become distorted.  There has been a conscious effort in the last few years amongst the UK Conservative Party (under Dominic Cummings) to portray themselves as "punk".   They used a Clash LP covers in their campaigns and said things like "conservatism is the new punk."  One of them literally said on TV that he used to be a Clash fan as a student and he sees what he's doing now as "punk". 

 

A lot of...the deluded... think that being outrageous, crazy and "rebellious" (puh - leeze)  suddenly became a "thing" in 1976 and never happened before in history. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ignant666
(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3720
 
Posted by: @dom

Do you know what "punk rock" was?  What's your understanding of it?

Pretty sure ol' Mikey T. there was one, LA hardcore style. And those LA boys was hard; even us NYHC-ers would admit that.


elitemachinery
(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 613
Topic starter  
Posted by: @dom

Do you know what "punk rock" was?  What's your understanding of it?

It's influences started with Iggy or Bowie or Richard Hell or Velvet Underground depending on whom you ask. But the first official punk band (known for spitting on their audience) were the Sex Pistols.

The Sex Pistols were born out of an art and fashion scene comprised of people who hated corporate rock and had little money or opportunities. It was a rebellion against society and an oppressive government that was often threatening nuclear war.

Nuclear war was a real threat in everyone's minds during this time. And with the possibility of mass extinction ever present daily not a lot of other things tend to matter much.

"God save the Queen, and her fascist regime.." - Sex Pistols

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02D2T3wGCYg

LA and NYC hardcore was born out of that. Usually the lyrics represented anger toward and rebellion against authority.

Fuck Authority by Wasted Youth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgWmRpcHlKc

We can live our own lives; fuck authority!
What is wrong we'll decide; fuck authority!
You need not to fight; fuck authority!
Stand up for your rights; fuck authority!

Officials give us too much shit
No longer can I deal with it
They try and push and shove me around
They try and knock me to the ground
They tell me how to act and what not to wear
They say be polite and do not swear

Fuck authority!

Do it just your own way; fuck authority!
Don't listen to what they say; fuck authority!
What gives them the right; fuck authority!
This is America, man; fuck authority!

Life is laughing in my face
I am sick of the human race
Getting knocked all about
Makes me wanna scream and shout
Don't we live in the land of the free
Give me death or liberty

Fuck authority!

This is America, man; fuck authority!
We can live our own lives; fuck authority!
Stand up for your rights; Fuck authority!

Fuck authority Now!


ignant666
(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3720
 

The widespread use of the term "punk rock" comes from rock critic, and future Patti Smith Group guitarist, Lenny Kaye calling '60s garage bands by that term in the liner notes of the 1972 compilation Nuggets.

Through the very early '70 it was used for NYC bands like The NY Dolls, The Patti Smith Group, once they released their first record in 1974, The Dictators, The Ramones, and Television.

But what really made the term prominent was NYC's own Punk Magazine, first issue December 1975. Punk Magazine introduced the term to the NYC-inspired London teenagers who started the first UK punk bands after the July '76 shows by The Ramones. The inspired-by-The-NY-Dolls Sex Pistols and London SS already existed by then, but started playing much faster right after the Ramones shows, and The London SS soon split into The Clash and The Damned.

Punk was invented on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, NYC, USA, and proved a popular export.


elitemachinery
(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 613
Topic starter  
Posted by: @ignant666

Pretty sure ol' Mikey T. there was one, LA hardcore style. And those LA boys was hard; even us NYHC-ers would admit that.

In 1980 at age 15 my friends would go to the Cuckoo's Nest and drink and watch the famous punk bands. Every major punk band played there. They invited me a few times. I'm sorry I never went.

I was captain of the chess team and trying to be good. The punks in my class were always trying to adopt me. If I showed up to school with a bad haircut they'd ask, "Dude, are you punk?"

Cuckoo's Nest documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh8TvSZZheg  


ignant666
(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3720
 
Posted by: @elitemachinery

"Dude, are you punk?"

Posted by: @elitemachinery

captain of the chess team

Posted by: @elitemachinery

bad haircut

Duh, yeah, just took you a couple years to realize it.

That pic you posted once of you playing a White Power skin in some movie was very convincing- you looked exactly like the kids we used to chase down Avenue A with bats.


elitemachinery
(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 613
Topic starter  
Posted by: @ignant666

Duh, yeah, just took you a couple years to realize it.

Haha..That's probably how it works. If gays adopt you then you may be gay. If punks adopt you then you may be punk. I think i'm a bit more accepting of my punk tendencies these days.

Posted by: @ignant666

That pic you posted once of you playing a White Power skin in some movie was very convincing- you looked exactly like the kids we used to chase down Avenue A with bats.

That was a a low-budget movie filmed in 1998 called MENACE. I was 33 years old at the time and finishing up post production on my movie EVICTED. A filmmaker friend was looking for actors for his movie.

After reading the script I offered to play one of the skinhead punks. I shaved my head and took on a skinhead character named Teddy. They gave us baseball bats and fake drugs and I went down to the Hollywood blvd army supply store and created the costume myself.

Here's a clip from the movie (dubbed in German) where one can see my final character:

https://youtu.be/DNqqzElvh7M?t=931

There were many actual street punks in my film EVICTED. We pulled them off Hollywood Blvd with promises of beer and food. Others volunteered and were very good actors. But I wisely cast myself as the drunkie slacker that I am. And I surrounded myself with all sorts of misfits and addicts.

EVICTED Trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEEV1MDe4wQ

For the EVICTED soundtrack, we didn't have dough for famous bands to provide music, so we made our own. We created all sorts of music for the fictional radio station KFUK. Country, rock-a-billy, and punk. I got to write and perform a track entitled FUCK YOU. It was a hell of a lot of fun. I think finally crossed over the abyss and became a punk (tongue in cheek.)

https://youtu.be/Ne67E13ybkk?t=45

some lyrics:

Do you think I really care?
What you think or what you wear?
Do it now if you dare!
Let me make this very clear.

Hey you
Fuck you

Fuck you
Who are you?

F-U-C-K

FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!


elitemachinery
(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 613
Topic starter  
Posted by: @ignant666

But what really made the term prominent was NYC's own Punk Magazine, first issue December 1975. Punk Magazine introduced the term to the NYC-inspired London teenagers who started the first UK punk bands after the July '76 shows by The Ramones.

Posted by: @ignant666

Punk was invented on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, NYC, USA, and proved a popular export.

This makes sense as the Ramones and other bands mentioned pre-date the Sex Pistols. Also the NYC art and music scene was very well developed at the time. And these bands were touring in London. Richard Hell was cool and had the look. But the Ramones had the Punk energy and sound.

EARLY PUNK 1970s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8creQk8lv7w


David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3217
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af5Kjgs8BI4

You Weren't There (Full Punk Documentary, English, Rock Movie, Full Length, Movie Online)

 

Pretty good docu on the history of punk in Chicago. 

You Weren't There: A History of Chicago Punk 1977 to 1984 (2007): You Weren't There: a History of Chicago Punk 1977-1984 is a documentary that looks back on the impact that the Punk movement had on the Windy City. Directors: Joe Losurdo, Christina Tillman Writers: Joe Losurdo (creator), Christina Tillman (creator) Stars: Steve Albini, Vic Bondi, Scotty Brown Though overlooked in the annals of Rock history (compared to media centric LA, NYC and London), Chicago served as an important early supporter of the Punk movement in America. "You Weren't There" talks to the DJ's, musicians, promoters, artists and fans who were pivotal in creating the Chicago Punk scene. It also showcases classic archival footage of great Chicago bands such as, Effigies, Naked Raygun, Strike Under, Articles of Faith, as well as lesser known greats like Silver Abuse, DA, The Subverts, Savage Beliefs, Negative Element, Rights of the Accused and many, many more.

Admittedly the 70s punks were a lot more shocking than the 60s garage punks and e.g. Jim Morrison.  25m to 28m in they talk about one of the first Chicago punk bands called The Mentally Ill and their first record Gacy's Place.  .  Albini says "That ..is the best record ever.  You can play that record today and you can still startle people with the crudity of that record"  

Here it is;  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CJ7lnU2gdk   

I'll admit it; WTF was that?

 

There's a quote from Albini somewhere in that docu where he criticizes modern pop-punk, Green Day etc.  He says when the cheerleaders are into it it isn't punk because they are the enemy. 

 

Discuss.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


elitemachinery
(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 613
Topic starter  

Apropos the origins of Punk here's a clip of Johnny Lydon (aka Johnny Rotten) arguing with a Ramone's member about who was first. Very entertaining:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhVZLL1pMQ0


ignant666
(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3720
 

Lydon: a fat disgusting Pillsbury dough-boy who votes Conservative, and supports Trump; sad. One of my teenage heroes, and only a year older than me; looks like he's a decade older, and spent all of that decade swilling beer, and eating lard with a large spoon.

Marc "Marky Ramone" Bell: "If it wasn't for that first Ramones album [on which he did not play] punk would not have been solidified."

Dead right.

My late friend "Rockets" Redglare, an actor, comedian, raconteur, heroin entrepreneur, and Sid Vicious' NYC bodyguard, had a joke that was a steady part of his comedy set.

Over the years, i heard him tell it about almost every man shorter than him in the NYC scene; this was almost everybody, since "Rockets" was about 6' 4", and 350 lbs on a skinny day.

But i'll tell the Marc Bell version, the first version i can recall hearing, which was when he was still the drummer in Richard Hell and the Voidoids:

"I hear Marc Bell is afraid for his life, he's runnin' scared.

He heard a lotta people downtown wanna shoot a little dope."

[For the benefit of baffled foreigners: to "shoot a little dope" might mean to fire a gun at a short stupid person, or it might mean to inject some heroin; a pun. The point is that Marc B. is so stupid that he does not understand that no one wants to shoot him.]


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