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hermitas
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27/06/2019 8:04 pm  

First, let me admit there is much I don't know. This is an honest question. I'd really appreciate answers.

There *seems* to be a desire on the part of *some* to attempt to supply the essential characters and even to fulfill the prophecy of the Bible found in John's Revelation.

Crowley *seems* to have wanted to identify himself with The Great Beast though I'm not certain how literally he hoped to fulfill the prophecy.

Still others *seem* to want to bring about the coming of the Antichrist.

(I confess all these emphasized "*seems*" are subjective.)

So here's my question. Is there some alternate interpretation of John's Revelation they are going by? Because if they are hoping to fulfill this prophecy... I mean... The prophecy says they lose in the end. So what *are* these people (if they do indeed exist outside my imagination) hoping to accomplish by fulfilling a losing prophecy?

Okay.. I'm all ears. Pretend I haven't heard anything about this before, and you'd be very close to correct.

Thank you.


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ignant666
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27/06/2019 8:36 pm  

AC wasn't allowed any books except the Bible for his entire childhood.

When he discovered he liked "The Three Evil Kings" (Smo-King, Drin-King, and Fuc-King (or perhaps Wan-King, given his age when he made the joke?)), and his mother called him "The Beast", he went overboard with the Revelations imagery (thus, for example, Babalon/Babylon) as a framework for understanding his desire for "sin" and "evil".

You are right that this seems strange given how Revelations "comes out". I think all this Biblical stuff is quintessential "Old Aeon" detritus, and abrogate.


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belmurru
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27/06/2019 8:41 pm  

My first answer, off the cuff, is because "all words are sacred, and all prophets true," so that the Apocalypse is one of those Aeonic things, not unlike Dee's work, that has important resonance down the ages.

Also, per Crowley, the Greek Qabalah is real, no less than the Hebrew, and books like the Apocalypse have plenty to get gematria from.


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ignant666
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27/06/2019 8:59 pm  

I think, belmurru, hermitas' point is that Revelations ends with the Antichrist, the Beast (and presumably the the Scarlet Woman riding on the Beast?), and all who bear "the Mark of the Beast" "cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone" (Revelations 19:20). This does not seem like a good thing.

Then the 144,000 righteous folks who survive all the carnage (dooming almost every Christian who has ever lived), in one of the creepiest bits of the Bible, get to "eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.” (19:18)

This kind of stuff is why Sunday School used to scare the shit out of me, and i fled to the welcoming embrace of Satan


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hermitas
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27/06/2019 9:54 pm  

I think, belmurru, hermitas’ point is that Revelations ends with the Antichrist, the Beast (and presumably the the Scarlet Woman riding on the Beast?), and all who bear “the Mark of the Beast” “cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone” (Revelations 19:20). This does not seem like a good thing.

Yes. Precisely. One correction, however. My fault. The Antichrist is not found in John’s Revelation but in the First and Second Epistles of John. Sorry, it’s been years since I took a serious look at it. And a childhood of conflated interpretations has gotten the better of me.

Back on subject: I think I remember reading Motta trying to interpret the lake of fire differently - in some glorious sense. But it did certainly seem like he was taking the prophecy in some serious literal sense.

My problem, however, is that in John’s Revelation the second beast, the beast “out of the earth,” forces worship of The Great Beast.

I can’t imagine the act of forcing anyone to worship against their will having anything to do with Thelema. “Convert not.” “Man has the right to think as he will.”

I’d just like to hear some other opinions on this. This perception I have of some hoping for the fulfillment of John’s Revelation, including forcing others to worship The Great Beast, confuses me. It doesn’t make sense.

Am I just overly perplexed by a few nuts? Or what?


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ignant666
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27/06/2019 10:03 pm  

Oops, the False Prophet, not the Antichrist, goes into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Thank you for the correction, hermitas.


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Tiger
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27/06/2019 10:06 pm  

when i come across such things
i read it as if perhaps he was the fruit of a gnostic, hermetic, templar, tradition.
i only know a little and remember less.
On one occasion of a read it felt like possibly

he was restoring The seven classical planet pagan deities; ridding the planet of churchianity.
on an enfant terrible side
he might have been literally reading the book and doing a ritual to hurry up the process
and it does get confusing
Apocalypse - revelation
A needed Anti Christ for the Second coming
enochian understanding
Atu The Aeon
all fun stuff

i also hear there is a daniel, enoch old testament Apocalyptic scripture also


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hermitas
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27/06/2019 10:15 pm  

[exasperation!]
I can’t fix it.
These people
And their dreams.

Anyway,
It’s not me.

They shall chance
To abide
In this bliss
Or no;
It is no odds.

As for me
I Am
Love
under
Will


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dom
 dom
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27/06/2019 10:40 pm  

It's all a load of symbolic(s).

It's a step-by-step manual on illumination through laya yoga. ~ Jim Eshelman

http://www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9587&p=62515&hilit=book+of+revelation#p62515

Seven Seals as seven chakras etc etc.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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hermitas
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27/06/2019 11:09 pm  

@dom

Yes, that is actually the interpretation that I rest on.

Yet there was Jung’s maxim that what we do not bring into consciousness internally, we project outwardly and create in the world of our experience (paraphrasing). That’s what bothers me - the strong suspicion that eventually someone is going to corrupt something I want to preserve incorruptible.

Alright, thanks for letting me express all that. Guess I needed to.


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Shiva
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27/06/2019 11:50 pm  

b: all words are sacred, and all prophets true ,,,

save only that they understand a little

Aiwass seems to feel that these "other" words and profits [see below] have a general understanding, but lack the whole [holy] picture.

Now, let me give you the Frater Shiva version of the interpretation of The Revelation of John. This interpretation puts the shoo on the other foot - for those who champion the Antichrist.

The following passage refers to "he," the second Beast that came after the first ...

[Rev 13:16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The second Beast is what we refer to as the Borg.

Buying and selling refer to digital commerce; the standard transaction mode in the first world, and gaining popularity in many (most?) third-world countries. Cash sales become limited to gold or silver for goods in back-alley exchanges.

The mark of the Beast is your credit card number; or perhaps your Social Security number (or whatever number your country uses as its primary identifier of individuals).

The second Beast is the person (probably male) at the top of the pyramid (the digital empire) known as The Deep State (DS). Nobody knows who he (or she?) is, but his/her Executive Officer for The New World Order of Industrial-Military control of government and finance was David Rockefeller, who was incumbent during the intermediate stages of digital enslavement (known as "convenience") of humanity ... with a current 30% interest rate if you don't submit the minimum numbers (dollars, pounds, euros) on time.

"David Rockefeller was an American banker who was chairman and chief executive of Chase Manhattan Corporation. He was the oldest living member of the Rockefeller family and family patriarch from August 2004 until his death in March 2017." - Wikipedia

This topic was covered in greater detail, with references, in a Chapter of The Master Codex, which, if missing from your library, can be obtained for free via email attachment by sending me a request (subject: SEND FINAL) to me at the address given (way) below.

------------- Misc Data ---------------

6 = Tiphareth, the Sun, Harmony & Beauty, the dialog with the HGA.

66 = 6 x 11 (the number of Magick, and the "number of those who are of us)."
RJKA (Hebrew) = 66 = "to rise like the sun." Thus, 66 is a glyph or symbol of the Adept of the Inner Order.

666 = 6 x 111 (the essential/spiritual expression of any primary number (1 to 9). As AC said in court, "You may call me Little Sunshine."

-----------------------------

So we have matter, money, and mundane related to the dark forces variously called the Black Lodge and the Deep State).

And we have spirit, sanctity, and sublimity related to the light forces variously called the White Lodge and the Light Workers).

------------------------------

Finally, we have the words of Mr White (Pierre Levesque; 1984) ...

"Prophecy dates in the past could be accurate; now this is not possible."
There was the implication here that most of the ancient prophecies had been fulfilled, and modern prophecies were muddled due to our high rate of speed and change.

"Anarchy would be great. How would the power-man relate if everyone was on the same level?"

"Past systems have served their purpose (including The Book of the Law.)."
This statement has since attracted the attention of other, alert people, who feel the same way. Most Thelemites would be outraged.

- Quotes from http://mystic-history.angelfire.com/11avatar.htm

---------------------------------

I have observed the Rule of Ten Percent, and have probably exceeded my credit limit. The above are simply pieces of the puzzle. A document citing another 50-60% of the expanded, panoramic vista are in a document (now prepared, but awaiting appendices) to be made available in the near future (probably in a week). If anything above caught your attention, and you'd like the expanded version, send me an email (subject: SEND 50-60).

SEND 50-60
or
SEND FINAL
or both
to shiva-ss@gmail.com

--------------------------

If one were to update The Revelation from archaic symbols to modern symbols, then examine said Apocalypse from a contemporary Black Borg vs White Anarchy viewpoint, maybe it'll make more sense.

On the other hand, all restraining orders and judgements of incompetency may not be safely delivered to my Temple in the northern extension of the Jornada del Muerto wasteland.

Just put all that in your pipe, and get smokin'.


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Tiger
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28/06/2019 4:14 am  

Jesus Blasphemer
“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
John 10:33

Political religious caste system players
tithing toilet cleaners
in order to have time to stand on a pulpit
to advance the expropriation
of the means in which trust fund babies
thrive
to be on the level.

sign here

——————————————————


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Shiva
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28/06/2019 4:32 am  

T:" We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” John 10:33

Oh, that was just the cover story. Follow out the various scenes of Jeheshua's life, and you might see a cause and effect between his thrashing of the moneychangers (the ancient banking system / money market) and his subsequent arrest. Disruption of the economy, as it were.

sign here

I Am Not A Rajah—————


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Tiger
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28/06/2019 4:39 am  

Work can still be found where the embedding of a chip is not required
as well as food out there in in the wilderness.

What is the mark of the beast ?
What is the seal of god ?
What is the conflict of of which to worship ?

Libation for the cauldron.


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elitemachinery
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28/06/2019 6:47 am  

@Shiva

Google's profits are sent every year to PO Box 666 is Bermuda according to the Daily Mail.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3425097/Don-t-evil-Google-sends-profits-worth-8BILLION-year-post-box-number-666-tax-haven-island-Bermuda.html

Google seems to fit the bill when it comes to mass surveillance and digital commerce and control. But Google doesn't seem to fit the role of the Second Beast causing people to worship the first Beast.

Re Revelations can anyone tell me which version of the bible to read and where it might be online? Which would be considered the best version to pull quotes from? There does seem to be a lot of variance in interpretations.


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elitemachinery
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28/06/2019 7:50 am  

@shiva said:

I have observed the Rule of Ten Percent, and have probably exceeded my credit limit. The above are simply pieces of the puzzle. A document citing another 50-60% of the expanded, panoramic vista are in a document (now prepared, but awaiting appendices) to be made available in the near future (probably in a week). If anything above caught your attention, and you’d like the expanded version, send me an email (subject: SEND 50-60).

SEND 50-60
or
SEND FINAL
or both
to shiva-ss@gmail.com

the email bounced back...i think it should read shiva-ss@juno.com ??


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belmurru
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28/06/2019 11:23 am  

Thanks, ignant666, for clarifying that. I misunderstood the question, and broke the pedant's rule - first impressions are usually wrong. Never respond off the cuff, at least in writing.

For the attraction of the Bible for Crowley, of course his childhood goes without saying. Whether it is relevant, or how, to anyone else in quite the same way is the question.

For understanding Crowley, and Thelema under his tutelage, it is of course necessary to take it as seriously as he did. It's a sine qua non of scholarship.

I was not brought up like he was, rather mostly without exposure to religion at all, but my attraction to religious studies stems from the conditions of my upbringing, which aroused in me a yearning for wholeness (you might say, to put it as generously as possible).

But also, due to those circumstances, I found myself attracted to the underdog, and the bad guy, like the Bond villains and above all Darth Vader (I was eleven when I saw it). So, like Alex in A Clockwork Orange, when I saw the Roman soldiers whipping Jesus, I identified with the soldiers, not the suffering Christ. Perversity, is what I think you'd call it.

And that is what Crowley had, and it is probably one of the few things that Crowley and I have in common, and accounts for my attraction to his writings and character.

For me it was the bad guys of the Bible that were attractive: Satan, the Serpent in the Garden, Nimrod, Pharaoh, Jezebel, Herod, Salome, the Romans, the Jews, the Beast, the Whore of Babylon etc.; like Milton's Satan in Paradise Lost, they were the true heroes of the story, and the only interesting, three-dimensional, characters. The good guys were dull. I didn't want to be them.

So I exegeted the Bible in that perverse way, like Crowley, turning it on its head. I understood Thelema as a kind of Left Hand Christianity, by analogy with (the caricature of) Left Hand Tantra, doing all the forbidden things for the sake of liberation. So you can read the Bible that way, upside-down, interpreting it not as the author clearly meant it, but backwards and inverted, with the villain as the hero.

And it makes the text more fun, too.


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 Anonymous
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28/06/2019 11:37 am  

@shiva ————- Misc Data —————

A little ray of sunshine has come into the world... that song plays in my head every time I see the words "little sunshine" or "ray of sunshine". My parents always sung that to me...

=========================
Christ and Anti Christ.

I look at this from the words themselves not an interpretation from any number of religions. This is taken from nature and examples across nature and all things natural in a natural universe not written words or stories. All stories written 2000 years ago are subjected to the forces of those 2000 years.

Christ and his opposite

magnet North and South
Christ Male Anti Christ female
right left
Christ Says follow me worship me Anti says follow your damned selves and worship yourselves, Im busy.
Christ says he is son of God from the heavens Anti christ is daughter of the earth Goddess
Christianity has killed and destroyed souls by priests and and murdered to protect and enforce religious doctrines
Anti Christ is nature protects the earth
and it goes on ......the opposite ... marry each his opposite...

if Christianity is the right way which is wrong does that mean the wrong way is right?

then we have
Pan god of the earth bapthomet father of the earth male north
Pandora Goddess of the earth Gaia south

The ball rolls from there, the natural story develops and doesn't stagnate the way this post and millions of others regarding these questions are forced to do.

we have Apollo the sun god ..killed the serpent .. Apophis the serpent enemy of ra would seek to kill ra before he rose (the sun) and then again Perseus killed Medusa who looked like a sun with the serpents around her head..and then again again there was christ, the son of God..

=====================================================
@belmurru

My first answer, off the cuff, is because “all words are sacred, and all prophets true,” so that the Apocalypse is one of those Aeonic things, not unlike Dee’s work, that has important resonance down the ages.

The apocalypse is a natural state of affairs in a world attempting to make itself unnatural.
Example.. the number 8 Infinity the perfect balance..... if you have an atom spinning around through that eternity 8, all balanced like, through one loop and out the next.

However, we have movement, time. ...corruption and gravity caused by that number 8 just spinning around perfectly causing an electro magnetic field.. something created
so that 8 in it's stability is unstable... and head towards an explosive apocalypse see here The wheel

that's where the 9 comes in the 9 contains all prior .. more on 9 another time 😀

We humans have interfered with that natural state of the planet. I posted this discovery the other day... get a handful of natural crystal points and in a dark room toss them all down together... it's pretty awesome to see that spark, explosion of energy, electricity, static, true earth electricity. The applications and ideas from this alone changes what we know..

We as humans, just rape and take our minerals and metal... mining it as much as possible, and as one would think with my experiment of above and the ramifications of that energy and power... that mining moving changing our natural resources or pieces of earth mankind is seriously damaging the earths harmonic... mining construction building castles in the sand.. changing the flow of rivers, drying them up, poisoning the eco system... towering the world in towers of all manner of frequencies and electricity, playing with nuclear energy and diseases of war. Each trying to outdo the other, be more powerful.. richer bigger better...

but

Like a human standing up on his two legs and standing motionless, eventually you will have to correct your stance or you will fall. If you stand up with a load that is unbalanced or too heavy and bulky, your fall will be spectacular and a lot faster.

On one level once we stated the lie we had to continue it to protect what we have built... and the lie grows but can not sustain itself to busy running around destroying to cover it's ass....

Just like mankind is too busy not only waiting for the anti christ but spending 2000 years covering up truth and burying it, wiping out the smudges of truth when they unbury bits and doing everything in each's power to stop the anti-christ (apocalypse) they are forgetting and ignoring the reasons she would manifest.... and therefore by their own deeds are creating what they are stopping.

The self fulfilling prophecy.

As above then so below.

History states that christ was a manifestation of events on a larger scale in our universe. As he was born a star appeared in the east. Back to the point 2000 years of time and a tad chinese whispers and corruption ........ what was that star .. was it sirius? Was it venus the morning star was it mercury? it has been written many ways many interpretations

why is it that we think we know Jesus but we don't know in science what happened when he was born. Is it because it is not true and not born from basis of truth.

What else truthfully happened at that time? Unanswered

Greek legends state it was the moment that "pan" was killed. Look further and you get a similar story in the serpent of the oracle, being killed by Apollo using a mirror and Perseus, cutting the head off Medusa using her mirror signifying the birth of the rainbow Pegasus/crysasoar the fire water horse who was actually a sphinx.

The moment of the great God Pan's death was signified as the moment of the birth of jesus and christianity.
it was also the rise of the roman empire who adopted Jesus and made a pope....

The death of christianity and other religions can only be by the manifestation of truth .. google defines manifestation as

noun: manifestation; plural noun: manifestations
an event, action, or object that clearly shows or embodies something abstract or theoretical.
"the first obvious manifestations of global warming"
the action or fact of showing something.
"the manifestation of anxiety over disease"
synonyms: display, demonstration, showing, show, exhibition, presentation, indication, illustration, exemplification, exposition, disclosure, declaration, expression, profession
"the manifestation of anxiety"
a symptom of an ailment.
"a characteristic manifestation of Lyme disease"
synonyms: sign, indication, evidence, proof, token, symptom, testimony, substantiation, mark, symbol, reflection, example, instance
"manifestations of global warming"
a version or incarnation of something or someone.
"the butterfly was one of the many manifestations of the Goddess"
an appearance of a ghost or spirit.
"some supernatural manifestations are regarded as portents of good or evil"
synonyms: apparition, appearance, materialization, visitation
"a supernatural manifestation"

I tend to look at it .. that the beast was the church... for two thousand years we have had the beast reign in his rockafellas .. and the lamb shall deceive the very elite... christianity .. control of the masses... not working anymore...

by all accounts it is a reset, a restoration to rebalance an imbalance caused by trying to unbalance something that was balanced....

@belmurru Also, per Crowley, the Greek Qabalah is real, no less than the Hebrew, and books like the Apocalypse have plenty to get gematria from.

thank you for giving me some ideas and more pathways to search 😀

@elitemachinery Revelations can anyone tell me which version of the bible to read and where it might be online? Which would be considered the best version to pull quotes from? There does seem to be a lot of variance in interpretations.

try and find as old a version as you can find as a physical reference but online this site I use a fair bit because it gives the passages in the different versions in the one spot bible hub com

Crowleys stance contains a lot of christianity aspects and solar phallic worship but as logos says.. there is truth in all. They are all basically the same across the board, just from different angles and interpretations ,...

also if Jesus was the son then the anti-christ must be the daughter...he final


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belmurru
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28/06/2019 11:51 am  

@elitemachinery

AC used the King James or Authorised Version, the one with thees and thous. The best practice is to take one from a hotel room, which the Gideons hope you will do. It's not stealing, because the hotel doesn't pay for them, and the Gideons donate them. Well, they used to. It's been a long time since I stayed in that kind of hotel.

It is of course online, in a zillion ways. The original of 1611 had the Apocrypha or Deuterocanonical texts, in between the Old Testament and the New Testament. But printings quickly began removing those books, and the kind you invariably find (until the 1990s), like the Gideons version, has just the Old and New Testaments. This was what Crowley was raised on.

The Borg can offer you Apps, e.g. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bibleoffline.multiplebibles&hl=en_US (free of course).

But just look around.

I have so many Bibles in so many languages, that I'm never in a room without one or more.

The Apocalypse, and the apocalyptic genre, is a very interesting field of study in its own right.


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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28/06/2019 1:14 pm  

This is my favorite edition of the King James Version, which as belmurru says, is the one AC was raised on, and always, and only, quotes from:

https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-bible-authorized-king-james-version-9780199535941?cc=us&lang=en&

It has scholarly notes, maps, etc.

If you are not very familiar with the Bible, this is an excellent supplemental text guiding you to all the nuttiest stuff quickly:

https://books.google.com/books/about/Ken_s_Guide_to_the_Bible.html?id=ZEtNNQAACAAJ

The last several cheap hotel rooms i have been in were Bible-less- the Gideons seem to be asleep at the wheel in these End Times days. The OUP edition above is about $14 at Amazon, and adds plenty to scholarly matter to the basic text.

Also worth a look is Robert Crumb's illustrated version of Genesis, although it is not KJV but a modern translation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Genesis_(comics)

Available from Crumb at (of course you can buy it anywhere but he gets more $ if you buy from him directly):

http://www.crumbproducts.com/pages/books_comics.html


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belmurru
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28/06/2019 1:28 pm  

@ignant666

"The last several cheap hotel rooms i have been in were Bible-less- the Gideons seem to be asleep at the wheel in these End Times days."

I feared as much. The PC crowd might have got to them. That is, why not Korans, Bhagavad Gita, or the Satanic Bible as well? So the hotels just say "To hell with it." No more late-night conversions on the road.


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hermitas
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28/06/2019 1:49 pm  

New American Standard Bible tries to stay close to the original language’s words and phrasing, but it isn’t helpful with some cultural idioms.

New International Version translates the idioms for you, but is therefore less true to the original words and phrasing.

New Revised Standard Version is very close to the NASB above, and it includes the Apocryphal books.

Any of these three are excellent translations. Switch back and forth between the first two for a good understanding of both the original phrasing and idiomatic understanding.

All three are widely accepted for the purpose of quotation. Usually the initials of the version are placed in parenthesis after the quotation. For example: (NASB)


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ignant666
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28/06/2019 2:10 pm  

All valid points, hermitas, but the King James Version is the only one AC quotes from or uses, and is also the version that has shaped English language literature and culture for centuries, so so-called "better" modern translations are less desirable for Thelemic study.

One of my best friends, who i just visited out in Colorado last month, is a former "Hebrew Israelite", a mostly east coast African-American separatist/nationalist religion that believes blacks, latinos, and American Indians are the 12 Lost Tribes of Israel, aka the "real Jews", and that white folks like me are actual physical devils.

They use the KJV exclusively, for a very peculiar reason: there is an engraving of King James (who commissioned this translation, but did no work on it) in many editions of the KJV that looks remarkably like former NYC Mayor David Dinkins, a black man. Thus, the KJV is the true Bible, because it was translated by a black man.

http://www.israelitesunite.com/king-james.html


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hermitas
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28/06/2019 2:20 pm  

@ignant666

You may want to go with the New King James Version then. The older version is translated from later era (younger) manuscripts. But it’s whatever. I’m just trying to be helpful.


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hermitas
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28/06/2019 4:03 pm  

Check out this Carl Jung quote.

Psychologically the case is clear, since the dogmatic figure of Christ is so sublime and spotless that everything else turns dark beside it. It is, in fact, so one-sidedly perfect that it demands a psychic complement to restore the balance. This inevitable opposition led very early to the doctrine of the two sons of God, of whom the elder was called Satanael. The coming of the Antichrist is not just a prophetic prediction — it is an inexorable psychological law whose existence, though unknown to the author of the Johannine Epistles, brought him a sure knowledge of the impending enantiodromia. Consequently he wrote as if he were conscious of the inner necessity for this transformation, though we may be sure that the idea seemed to him like a divine revelation. In reality every intensified differentiation of the Christ-image brings about a corresponding accentuation of its unconscious complement, thereby increasing the tension between above and below.

Jung, C. G. (1968). Aion: Researches into the phenomenology of the self, pp. 42-43


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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28/06/2019 4:22 pm  

em: the email bounced back…i think it should read shiva-ss@juno.com ??

No, the Juno company will not allow attachments larger than 10 Mb.
But I did screw up the domain. It should have read:

SEND FINAL
or
SEND 50-60
or
BOTH

notarajah@gmail.com <- CORRECT EMAIL ADDRESS FOR REQUESTS

Thank you for catching that err-or.


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hermitas
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28/06/2019 6:00 pm  

@all

So, regarding my Jung quote above... as I'm thinking through all this...

I get the need to embrace and "redeem" the rejected and repressed energies within the psyche. So I get "The Great Beast" and "the Antichrist" symbolism. I understand that, in the process of individuation, you can't please everyone, and you have to become the "bad guy" in somebody's world. If one wants to become whole, one must deal with these archetypes. That makes perfect sense to me from a psychological perspective.

So I guess it's just the idea of a literal fulfillment of the prophecy in the sense of forcing others to worship against their will that bothers me. It doesn't matter what team is doing it, the practice is still abhorrent to me. .

Okay, taking it apart and putting it back together. Thanks for playing along. If there's anything you think I'm missing, please feel free. I'm trying to think through my reaction to some of these ideas.


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Tiger
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28/06/2019 6:50 pm  

Holy Hermes Serpents
crisscross virtue vice
double wanded
Yin Yang ( small black dot in white turns white, black ; small white dot in black turns black white )
Universal solvent Vitriol
dissolve
Art Cauldron

“ It was midnight, and the Devil came down and sat in the midst; but my Fairy Prince whispered: “Hush! It is a great secret, but his name is Yeheswah, and he is the Saviour of the World.” And that was very funny, because the girl next me thought it was Jesus Christ, till another Fairy Prince (my Prince's brother) whispered as he kissed her: “Hush, tell nobody ever, that is Satan, and he is the Saviour of the World.” “
The Wake World, Knox om Pax pg 10


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hermitas
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28/06/2019 7:52 pm  

"Amen,"
Says he.
"He's been held captive,"
He hears.
"I think it was a kind of prison,"
He ponders,
"For years."

"What comes next?"
He wonders.

[He trails off, 5% insane, listening..]


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Tiger
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28/06/2019 9:44 pm  

"He has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.
He has brought down rulers from their thrones
He has filled the hungry with good things
but has sent the rich away empty."
Luke 1:51-53

The clamor of the people
the commanding voice of a god
talk of sacrifice
holding fast to this nonentity
as though it were a pearl of great price.
Free
from me myself and my situation.

Tandava.

“ The passage where the twins live is very difficult too.
But the real serious difficulty is the outdoors. You have to leave the House of Love, as they call the Fourth House. You are quite, quite naked: you must take off your husband-clothes, and your baby-clothes, and all your pleasure clothes, and your skin, and your flesh, and your bones, every one of them must come right off. And then you must take off your feeling clothes; and then your idea clothes; and then what we call your tendency clothes which you have always worn, and which make you what you are. After that you take off your consciousness clothes, which you have always thought were your very own self, and you leap out into the cold abyss, and you can't think how lonely it is. There isn't any light, or any path, or anything to catch hold of to help you, and there is no Fairy Prince any more: you can' even hear his voice calling you to come on. There's nothing to tell you which way to go, and you feel the most horrible sensation of falling away from everything that ever was. You've got no nothing at all; you don't know how awful it all is. You would turn back if you could only stop falling; but luckily you can't. So you fall and fall faster and faster; and I can't tell you any more. “
he Wake World, Knox om Pax pg 21


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dom
 dom
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29/06/2019 1:36 am  

Tiger said "“ It was midnight, and the Devil came down"...… thanks you reminded me to check this out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBjPAqmnvGA

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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29/06/2019 2:30 am  

h: 5% insane

That's very generous. FINAL starts by stating: "It's a terrible thing to say ... but
All the People we Know are Insane."

I'll see that (5%), and raise you 20%.

This is a high-stakes game.


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wellreadwellbred
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29/06/2019 8:01 am  

hermitas: "the idea of a literal fulfillment of the prophecy in the sense of forcing others to worship against their will that bothers me. It doesn’t matter what team is doing it, the practice is still abhorrent to me.

Okay, taking it apart and putting it back together. Thanks for playing along. If there’s anything you think I’m missing, please feel free. I’m trying to think through my reaction to some of these ideas."

Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law, is in line with a "literal fulfillment of the prophecy" of "John’s Revelation".

Aaccording to Aleister Crowley, 418 “… is the number of the word of the Aeon, ABRAHADABRA, the cypher of the Great Work (source: Book of Thoth, VII. The Chariot).”

And within the his The Book of the Law, chapter II verse 78, is written that "They shall worship thy name, foursquare, mystic, wonderful, the number of the man; and the name of thy house 418."

In his new comment to his The Book of the law (I:8), Crowley states that “The Great Work” "consists principally in the solution of complexes.”, as “Our minds and bodies are veils of the Light within.”, a light which is made opaque or occult or obscure by the complexity of the folds of the said veils, veiling that we are all “originally perfect”, but that we can clarify this muddle through “The Great Work”.

I:61 in Crowley's The Book of the Law, states that "... to love me [Nuit] is better than all things," [...] For one kiss wilt thou then be willing to give all; but whoso gives one particle of dust shall lose all in that hour."

That is, those who do not worship 418 [the Great Work and the house of the Beast 666], and are "willing to give all" to "Nuit", are not on the winning team, with respect to Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law as a "literal fulfillment of the prophecy" of "John’s Revelation".


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hermitas
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29/06/2019 11:34 am  

In reverse...

@wellreadwellbred. Granted, my point is that a literal interpretation of John’s Revelation is not the way to go.

@Shiva Maybe I was trying to be modest. Lol

@Dom see also Tenacious D’s video for “Tribute”

@Tiger
Part One: Probably so.
Part Two: [silence]
Part three: Oh, I’m at least a lifetime away from any of that.


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wellreadwellbred
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29/06/2019 12:05 pm  

My point is that with respect to Aleister Crowley’s The Book of the Law as a “literal fulfillment of the prophecy” of “John’s Revelation”, those who do not worship (honor, respect or satisfy) 418 [the Great Work and the house of the Beast 666], are not on the winning team. Because those who do not respect or satisfy "the Great Work", can not attain "1. Abrahadabra; the reward of Ra Hoor Khut." (Source: The Book of the Law, III:1)

And as already mentioned: "Aaccording to Aleister Crowley, 418 “… is the number of the word of the Aeon, ABRAHADABRA, the cypher of the Great Work (source: Book of Thoth, VII. The Chariot).”"


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elitemachinery
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29/06/2019 12:31 pm  

Thank you for all the information and suggestions.

Does it make sense that part of ushering in "Crowleanity" would be fulfilling biblical prophecies and/or the last chapter of Revelations in the Bible? In this way the Bible's prophecies have been fulfilled and have less relevance and people seek out something new?

I used to study the bible as a child and teenager as part of my religious duties but don't remember much.

What parts are most important to read that are relevant to the End Times, The BEAST, Archangel Michael, Apocalypse and such? Revelations I assume? Book of Daniel? Suggestions?

Once identified, can we get all the best and most relevant quotes from the King James version into this thread for research purposes?


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Tiger
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29/06/2019 4:48 pm  

It shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15

The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Revelation 17:15

I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Revelation 13:1

and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Revelation 13:2

1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
Revelation 12


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hermitas
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29/06/2019 6:29 pm  

@wellreadwellbred

Well, I don’t think you can really have a “literal fulfillment” of a prophecy where anyone wins other than who the prophecy “literally” says wins (by the definition of “literal fulfillment”), but I’m not up for arguing the point further.

I do agree that this is the Aeon of Horus.


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Shiva
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29/06/2019 6:33 pm  

T: It shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15

Current Climate Change (ccc). I understand parts of Europia are under the fire right now. It moves around, you know.

And the dragon was wroth ...

There's an awful lot of dragons & serpents & beasts in this production. Some people say it's us (one-third of humanity) and the "Nordics" (an ET designation) against the reptiles (another ET designation + the other 2/3 of homo sapiens - the non spiritu faction). [non spiritu = "no soul"]

h: I do agree that this is the Aeon of Horus.

Actually, "this" (present day time-space?) is now very close to the tipping point between two eras. The so-called Age of Osiris (governed by Set, who killed Asar) is slowly fading into the sunset, and the so-called Aeon of Horus (the "new age") is gradually dawning. We are, right now (check it on your calendar), as a civilization, cruising through a TRANSITION PERIOD, where the two ideologies are clashing. For "literal" reference, please consult the daily news, both mainstream and alternative, as well as the state of your (anyone's) mind.

The transition state is not a big feature in Thelemic writings. At least Therion suggested a 500-year dark ages was underway (Book of Thoth).

As minutely discussed in other, ancient threads, different people and different cultures go through different Aeons and Yugas at a different rate. Certain countries in certain isolated places are obviously still wading through the Osiris phase. Achad entered the Aeon of Ma'at (Maat, Themis, Hrumachis, etc) in '48. If anyone is still struggling with their higher/lower-self integation, they can tentatively be assigned to the TRANSITION PHASE.

Every day, we can see examples of Osiris/Set (old Aeon subjugation with Judgment coming after death), Horus/Set (new Aeon - "I will deal hardly with them"), and Maat/Hrumachis ("Horus on the Horizon" - balanced). It's all mixed up. Transition periods tend to be confusing.


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hermitas
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29/06/2019 9:38 pm  

@Shiva

Well, I’ll reveal my thinking on it since I’m new.

Personally, I’m fine with calling the current era the Aeon of Horus because I think that fits where the majority of humanity is. Even absent any knowledge of Thelema, humanity overall seems to be playing an avenging Horus to the world religions and working toward individuation.

But in terms if individuals, I believe each person needs to wherever their individual level of development has them. So, yeah, some people still need to be working out Osiris. And, yeah, Achad probably needed to be working out Maat. That’s all fine. But, personally, I believe Horus describes the stage at which most of humanity is functioning.

I do get the idea of us being in a transitional period as well.

Just my two. Interesting conversation.


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herupakraath
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30/06/2019 3:30 am  

This does not seem like a good thing.

It would be if you were an ancient Egyptian. If the deceased successfully passed the weighing of the heart on the scale of Maat, the final step toward immortality was to land on the island in the lake of fire: from there they were heaven bound.


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herupakraath
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30/06/2019 3:48 am  

So here’s my question. Is there some alternate interpretation of John’s Revelation they are going by? Because if they are hoping to fulfill this prophecy… I mean… The prophecy says they lose in the end. So what *are* these people (if they do indeed exist outside my imagination) hoping to accomplish by fulfilling a losing prophecy?

No, but there is an alternate interpretation of the Beast 666, as defined within the Book of the Law. In that context, the Beast and the Scarlet Woman are the anti-heroes of Thelema, and were chosen for the purpose of reversing the magico-religious current that defines Christianity. Not only are the Beast & his Bride the winners of the contest, in them is all power given! (There is bound to be at least one Christian minister rolling over in his grave.)


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hermitas
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30/06/2019 5:45 am  

[tequila warning]

@Tiger

About that other thing,
WTF did you say to me?
That was maybe a little more serious
Than intended?
Anyway.
Whatever.
Bullseye.
Points scored.
Pointe awarded.

There’s nothing for me
Not anymore.
It’s all formula.
What the people need.
Whatever.
Formula.
Formula.
Instruction.
Pull the strings.
Make them dance.
What they need.

The Eye of the Storm.
How it revealed to me.
The Eye of the Storm.
HaShem sits in the Midst!
Of all the bullshit.

But I’ll play the game.
The Aeon of What?
The Aeon of Whatever
They Need.
Whatever.
They neeeeeeed.
Theyyyyy Neeeeeeeed.
Theyyyy Neeeeeed.
Whatever.
They Neeeeeeeeeeeed.

So you want to play this game?
Fine.
Fine.
Break my heart.
Break my mind.
Here I am.
“Here am I! Send me!”

They’re going to kill for this.
They’re going to kill for this.
Love.
They’re going to kill for this Love.

And they’ll call it
Love under Will.

Whatever.
Judge me.
Rape me.
Crucify me.
Whatever.

Whatever they need.
Whatever they neeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.
They neeeeeeeeeeeeeed.

Crucify!!!
Crucify!!!
Crucify!!!

There’s nothing left for me.
Formula.

Formula.

Formula.

Whatever.
I’ll play.
I’ll play.

But FILL ME!
FILL ME!
FILL ME!

Don’t leave me here
With formulae.

We’ll see.

Jaded.

FILL ME!

Whatever.
This is real.
What you said was real.


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hermitas
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30/06/2019 6:56 am  

@all

Whatever.
Be real sometime.
See what happens.


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Shiva
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30/06/2019 7:22 am  

h: Formula

Um ... maybe it's the medication you misplaced?


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elitemachinery
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30/06/2019 1:05 pm  

@herupakraath said:

No, but there is an alternate interpretation of the Beast 666, as defined within the Book of the Law. In that context, the Beast and the Scarlet Woman are the anti-heroes of Thelema, and were chosen for the purpose of reversing the magico-religious current that defines Christianity. Not only are the Beast & his Bride the winners of the contest, in them is all power given! (There is bound to be at least one Christian minister rolling over in his grave.)

Where in the bible does it imply that The Beast is "the winner" ?? I always thought it was the opposite.

Revelation 20:10: "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."


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Tiger
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30/06/2019 1:47 pm  

@hermitas
I said to you
me, myself and i and my situation
can go
send
come again

no punctuation


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Tiger
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Posts: 1582
30/06/2019 2:12 pm  

"here’s my question. Is there some alternate interpretation of John’s Revelation they are going by? "

" No, but there is an alternate interpretation of the Beast 666, as defined within the Book of the Law. "In that context, the Beast and the Scarlet Woman are the anti-heroes of Thelema, and were chosen for the purpose of reversing the magico-religious current that defines Christianity. Not only are the Beast & his Bride the winners of the contest, in them is all power given! (There is bound to be at least one Christian minister rolling over in his grave.) "

Pretty confusing
can we perhaps start with
the interpretation of what the dead, resurrection and christianity and thelema and what they consist of ?
I have heard of the living dead and the dead that dream they are alive and all cast into the lake of fire and light .

resurrection = that which is worth saving from the bereft ? (some living are dead believing that they are alive)
Thelema is canceling or reversing the formula and doctrine of resurrection ?


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hermitas
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30/06/2019 5:21 pm  

@Tiger

I said to you
me, myself and i and my situation
can go
send
come again

no punctuation

Divorcing.
Drinking.
Divulging.

Old story.

What you said
Was you?
Me too.
Got in my head.

Weary
Still in
I try again
Nothing else


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hermitas
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30/06/2019 9:32 pm  

Yeah..

I know some things. I can help out with some stuff. I have some questions too. Going through a hard time. A little eccentric. Not entirely crazy. Don’t know what to tell ya. It is what it is. Nice to meet you.


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