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Tiger
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@hermitas
Power too you; navigating the rough times !

Does John’s Revelation help you ? – How ? and Why ?

Where did the picture of the owl come from ?


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hermitas
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@Tiger

No. John’s Revelation does not help me. I was programmed from an early age with Fundamentalist Christianity. It’s more like something from which I need to be freed.

I’ve read Pryse’s interpretation, but it reads a little too strangely. Jim Eshelman says he might write an interpretation someday, but his energies right now are all invested in sidereal astrology. I’ve seen a loose outline, but I don’t know enough to really understand it without explanation. Well, I get just enough to realize that’s probably the right interpretation. I feel like I’ve had something of that internal battle in my own psyche. ...but the image of the conquering Christ at the end was not the Christ of Christianity, but the One Presence transcending the division.

The owl is just an internet image I stole. Drawn to the symbolism. Just all of it. I’m an odd bird. Kind of serious. Admire wisdom, clear sight. Sometimes try to help interpret dreams or other “night messages.” The “night hawk.” I just like it.


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hermitas
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Well, ****.

I seem to have more time on my hands these days..

Okay, so I get that each time there’s a set of seven in John’s Revelation it’s dealing with “purifying” each chakra. But! I just don’t know well enough the correspondences between the symbolism in the book and the actual practice of purifying the chakras. Eshelman can tell me he sees how they match up, but I don’t know how to confirm it.

So I’m stuck with taking his word. I’m familiar with the high level of scholarship he brings to his work. I get that. But on the level I need to unlock this for myself, I need to see it for myself.

So, anybody know a good place to start looking for descriptions of the process of purifying chakras?


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Tiger
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Winged Tiger of the Air
Great horned owl
Keenest vision
penetrate the darkness
to see beyond the veils
and the masks

Ergane
beneath the olive trees;
among the snakes,
with spear, helmet and
Gorgoneion pendant.

awesome image
looks cropped perfectly and resolution targeted for the right size.
i thought it was minerva’s owl because of the eyelashes
the artist did a good rendering


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Shiva
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h: …but the image of the conquering Christ at the end was not the Christ of Christianity, but the One Presence transcending the division.

Say, it seems you're on the right track here. The Transhimalayan folks tell us that "The Rider on the White Horse" ...

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. - Rev 6:2

11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[12] His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

-Rev 19

... is The Avatar of Synthesis ... a cosmic being who resolves duality.

And he's coming to a neighborhood near you in the immediate future.

Too bad he doesn't come any lower than the mental plane.

But all we have to do is get up to that (abstract, higher) mind, and take advantage of the dissolution.


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Tiger
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Tiger
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Tiger
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nice Shiva !


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hermitas
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Perhaps to the “Salt of the Earth” the “Lake of Fire” is terrifying.

But beyond duality, each side having passionately served it’s heart’s lord - perhaps to those of fire, the Lake of Fire is home.

And perhaps each “end” is just the particular process for each to dissolve into unity and bliss.

That’s the best I can come up with for anything approaching a literal interpretation. Even that isn’t truly literal in that it departs from the intent of the original author. But for literal, that’s the best I got.


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hermitas
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@Shiva

And he’s coming to a neighborhood near you in the immediate future.

LMAO

@Tiger

Thanks for the references.


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christibrany
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Since people are getting a bit 'meta' on this thread as they say, here is my subconscious submission:
a pale horse

'November 6, 2001, Bill was lured out of his home and shot by police. It's easy enough to find out the information on this, just Google it. He's a great example that in America, free speech is, well, it is often offensive. 😏'

Revelation 6:8
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

We are in for an interesting week or two. Buckle up buckeroos.


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Tiger
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nice cover
Bill was the best of the authors of that genre and one wonders why the other authors are still alive.
loved his section on Dr. José Manuel Rodríguez Delgado.

Revelation 6:8
nice
is that the beginning of the opening of the first seal ?

read it as if it is real
happening right there
inside you
and transform
the unreal
figuratively
speaking

lots of elements to pin down

777
7 Seals, 7 Trumpets, 7 Bowls
https://youtu.be/iW3Yx3Z6MbY


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Tiger
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Conquer Oh Lion Serpent Sun King !


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christibrany
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Apparently it is after the fourth seal 🙂

Please go to the music thread. You will like the song regarding the Son King . Happy Moon Day.


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wellreadwellbred
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Revelation 20:10: “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”"

The lake of fire mentioned in Revelation, is in that book called "the second death" (= a lake of fire for all eternity, in which "unsaved people" after they are resurrected to the judgement, are cast into as punishment).

Crowley's spin on Christianity;
"the Supper of the Passover, the spilling of the blood of the Lamb being a ritual of the Dark Brothers", and they "shall they be eaten up by [...] the mighty devil Choronzon, their master, whose name is the Second Death ..." (Source: 12th Aethyr, in Aleister Crowley's book Liber 418 or The Vision and the Voice. The whole of this on one page, can be found here; http://www.oto-hu.org/documents/publication/english/Liber_CCCCXVIII.html#note12-11 - - - Bahlasti Ompehda Camp - Hungary O.T.O.)

Crowley's spin on the hellfire, the second death, and the mark of the Beast, spoken of in the Christian New Testament:
"«The Cry of the 25th Aethyr, …»: «… When shall the day come that men shall flock to this my gate, and fall into my furious throat, a whirlpool of fire? This is hell unquenchable, and all they shall be utterly consumed therein. Therefore is that asbestos unconsumable made pure [35].»
«[[Footnote:] 35] This paragraph prophesies the purging of the worldly Fire in the Aeon of Horus. "Hell" is the pure Inmost Self of Man, that suffereth not extinction, but consumeth all the experiences of Life, coming thereby to know its own Perfection.»"

«The Cry of the 17th Aethyr, …»: «the Chymical Marriage of the Alchemists beginneth with a Weighing, and he that is not found wanting hath within him one spark of fire, so dense and so intense that it cannot be moved, through all the winds of heaven should clamour against it, and all the waters of the abyss surge against it, and all the multitude of the earths heap themselves upon it to smother it. Nay, it shall not be moved [29]. And this is the fire of which it is written: "Hear thou the voice of fire!" And the voice of fire is in the second chapter of The Book of the Law [30], that is revealed unto him that is a score and half a score and three that are scores, and six, by Aiwass, that is his guardian, the mighty Angel that extendeth from the first unto the last, and maketh known the mysteries that are beyond.»
«[[Footnote:] 29] This spark is Hadit; (hence the reference to Lib. AL, II) he cannot be moved because he is already in motion at the limit of velocity.»
«[[Footnote:] 30] The Oracle of Zoroaster says: "And when, after all the phantoms are vanished shall appear that holy and formless fire, that fire which darts and flashes throughout the depths of the universe --- hear thou the voice of the fire!" And this is the utterance of Hadit, the deepest expression of one's inmost point of view.»

«The Cry of the 11th Aethyr, …»: «And whoso passeth into the outermost Abyss, except he be of them that understand, holdeth out his hands, and boweth his neck, unto the chains of Choronzon. […] and the fire that is the friend of man, […] even that fire he turneth unto ruin, and madness, and fever, and destruction. And thou, that art an heap of dry dust in the city of the pyramids, must understand these things.»

«The Cry of the 2nd Aethyr, …»: "... the mark of the Beast spoken of in the Apocalypse, and is the sign of initiation [2]."
"[[Footnote:] 2] This is the "Third Eye", the "Eye of Shiva", the Pineal Gland, supposed by some anatomists to be a rudimentary eye.

«The Cry of the 2nd Aethyr, …»: «… even this dust [31] must be consumed with fire.»
«[[Footnote:] 31] i.e. the Magister Templi. See 6th Aethyr et al. Supra [= «"and others above"»]. Only a Magus can truly pierce the veil of BABALON. It is written (of Isis), "No man (i.e., Nemo, the Magister Templi) hath lifted my veil." But to lift it and look upon HER is one thing; to possess HER another!»
(Source: Aleister Crowley's book Liber 418 or The Vision and the Voice.)


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hermitas
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@wellreadwellbred

Thanks for that. I will look into that as well.


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Shiva
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wr [quoting]: ",,, coming thereby to know its own Perfection.»

"For I am perfect, being not." - Hadit, AL II

No matter how we view it (the lake of fire, John's Rev, the beast, the white horse and its rider, the second death, with all associated terrors, glyphs, and symbols), it all eventually comes down to not.

This implies not-being, which is accomplished by stopping the mind (as in the case of blasting the tower), which is temporary for living beings, and permanent in regards to the final projection.

This admonition is repeated throughout Liber AL, all the sacred scriptures of all the beacons, all my books, and all the "valid" books of any other scribe.

Scribblers who scribble injunctions to do anything other than stop the mind must simply be consigned to the second death (that's where nobody ever reads this trash a second time).

Of course, anyone is free to cut an author, scribe, or scribbler some slack ,,, if the author (authority) spins a long tale, starting at something, but ultimately pointing to, and ending at, nothing,

"Nothing is a secret ket ..." and if you keep that in mind, then you're thinking of something, and so you're screwed (up) and this won't work.

The Silent Watcher speaks: So, Frater High-and-Mighty Arhat, Bodhisattva, Avatar, Reverend, Sat Guru, Mahachohan Shiva the ascetic, just exactly how does one (anyone) stop their mind?

Thank you, your Silenceness, for bringing up this single, most important point that is the true explanation of the final thought and last judgment of the living and the dead:

There is no known practice or technique that has been revealed or even conceived that other folks can imitate and succeed in stopping their mind, thereby becoming liberated.

Get it, O Silent Skeptic? None of these promised religions, philosophies, or devotions are equipped with a practical, teachable, or transmittable technique for taking the final step, This must be undertaken by the initiate by him or her self.

This takes place in stages, First comes the blasted tower, "I am 8, 80, 418," Eighty is supported by diligent practices. At this level, religions, philosophies, and devotions can be of great assistance. This is The Man of Earth curriculum, however one obtains it or goes though it. The mind will be slowed down (for sure) from time to time, bringing visions and insights, and at least once, it's eventually going to get blown, blasted, and shut down (even if it's only for a little earth time).

Second, comes the priestess, The Woman clothed with the Sun, "I am 8, 80, 418," Four-eighteen is supported by diligent practices, but is also carried out in daily life. At this level, religions, philosophies, and devotions will begin to fade away. This is The Lover curriculum, however one engages it or otherwise gets caught up in it. The mind will be slowed down (for sure), and at regular or random intervals its going to get blown, blasted, and shut down) ... (still, it's only for a little earth time, although extended periods may, and probably will, occur).

Thirdly, comes liberation, "I am 8, 80, 418," Eight is not supported by diligent practices, but rather by wu-wei (not doing). At this level, religions, philosophies, and devotions are extinct. This is the Hermit curriculum, obtained by direct, ongoing experience. The mind will be stopped when operating at this level, but the vehicle may engage or precipitate its own separate self again. If the self-centered vehicle can re-assume the mindless state, more or less at will, then "He is a Master of Samadhi."

So these dragons, beasts, angels, et al, can be seen by the Man of Earth in the daily news and (in moving, living color at that) on TV or phartsmone. That's sort'a what this thread is about. Watching the double feature of the Apocalypse and AL III playing out in a 4D external world.

These same entities or archetypes can also be seen within any individual's psyche (mind). This would be the viewpoint of the Lover grade, even if he or she can also still see the outer reflection ... and engage it in a balanced manner.

From the Hermit's samadhic point of view, that point being the Monad (Kether, manifesting as yang-yin, Chokmah-Binah) or Universal Mind, any interaction with, or especially assumption of, some one of the characters in either Apocalypse or AL III, is a novel concept ... and it should provide adequate amusement for anyone ... provided it is ones "Will," and they are not simply medico-legally insane.

Said entities may also be viewed


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Jamie J Barter
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The Silent Watcher speaks: So,
Ah, So! Maybe s/he'd better change his/her name from now on to "The Silent (except for when s/he speaks) Watcher" ... ?

There is no known practice or technique that has been revealed or even conceived that
Perhaps somewhere then there is an unknown practice or technique?

Probingly into the infinite & beyond
Buzz LightJoy


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hermitas
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Well, that’s the thing, isn’t it..?

If John is a real prophet, and his vision actually does reflect a symbolic perspective on the real future...

Then the Lake of Fire absolutely must represent something positive, or at least transformative, to those who follow the teachings of To Mega Therion, defined as Aliester Crowley.

Because defining the Lake of Fire as eternal torment equates it with infinite torment. And infinite torment over time becomes infinitely unjust. Such a God would be worthy of our opposition in any case.

So either the Lake of Fire actually represents something positive, or we have to just man up and oppose such a God anyway.

Aghh..., It all just sounds so absurd.


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wellreadwellbred
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The text "The Star Called Wormwood by Frater Apollonius 4°=7□ A∴A∴", can be found here http://archidox.org/The%20Starry%20Gnosis.pdf

It covers in detail "... how Thelema is truly a further development of the New Testament revelation; indeed as Motta says, a correction to the distortions that have come through time."


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Shiva
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T: Maybe s/he’d better change his/her name from now on to “The Silent (except for when s/he speaks) Watcher” … ?

Yeah, but that's so long and complicated. The true tite is The One About Whom Naught may be Said - an actual esoteric appellation from Across the Himalayas.

Perhaps somewhere then there is an unknown practice or technique?

This is true. Anyone who does it cannot know how they did it, because their mind is left behind ... so they can do it, but they can't tell others about it because it's unknowable. If you understand this, either revel in its revelation ... or see a doctor.

wr: ... a correction to the distortions that have come through time.”

That's exactly the point (one among several) about Reveling, um Revelations. It has undergone the same Nicean (and later) revisions and spins.

Both books (Rev & AL III) have one thing in common: They're both battlefields, strung about with archetypal figures and symbols. And, before these Apocryphae, there was the Bhagavad Gita. If one wants to catch up with modern speed, one might consider trimming the scope down at bit. There are the forces of light (the White Brotherhood - the warriors of Atma, the True Self), and there are the forces of darkness (the materialists, the Black Lodge, ultimately the top [less than] 1%, who would control the 99%).

Simple. Black vs White. Forget the gray or yellow stuff in between. Then make sure all this stuff is incorporated internally. There's nothing going on out there that's not a reflection of what's going on inside your noggin and its energy field.

Confused? Not sure who the beast is? (try your id)
Not sure who to trust out there? (follow the money; who benefits?)
Set this stuff aside. It is gray zones and the yellow path.
Your beast is in your groin, and you're riding the white horse at the crown. These two meet in the heart, and if your heart is troubled, then Apocalypse-AL III has come into your consciousness.
All this stuff takes place on the causal plane (Tiphareth-Geburah-Chesed).

There's a Line in AL III: To Me do ye reverence! to me come ye through tribulation of ordeal, which is bliss.

Not Therion. Certainly not Crowley. Not Jesus. It's Ra-Hoor who might serve as a rallying point in these end times of the fish aeon.


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Tiger
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The Star Called Wormwood said
“ This voice is the way that communication with one’s Holy Guardian Angel is often described. The full development of this communication makes one in the words of Carlos Castaneda, a ‘Man of Knowledge'. At first, this communication will be tenuous as the Aspirant will not be clear about the communication from the Angel as the Aspirant is not clear about his or her objective in the pursuit of the Aspiration.

He or she slowly begins to learn and then at a greater rapidity as the inspiration that is the by-product of this intuitive spark increases. Now a much more mature conception of his or her Aspiration becomes apparent; this coming almost as a surprise. And his or her new intuitions (communications from the Angel) will soon clash with the misaligned desries of the lower ego. This brings one to the gate of fear and awe where the cry of the Angel is for courage with the Aspirant deep at war with his or herself.

The call is for the Aspirant to defy his or her fear by responding with courageous persistence in this pursuit of the full attainment of the Knowledge & Conversation with the Angel. Eventually, the Aspirant begins to adapt to this psychic situation and the intuitions from the Angel are assimilated into his or her everyday consciousness. And the Aspirant now has learned how to relate to his or her desires and to subject them to the clearer scrutiny of the Intuition. In so doing, the Aspirant becomes the master of these desires and can respond to them with a strong impeccability as a sharp clarity encompasses the nature of his or her consciousness.

This is a trance that is as much real as it is an illusion that the Aspirant should master with a certain sense of humility. If he or she fails at this point, believing this to be the successful completion of the Aspirant's Initiation, then this arrogance will occlude any further development; the Aspirant will rush when he or she should be patient, or the Aspirant will be patient when he or she should rush. But actually, the Aspirant will no longer learn, or yearn for anything. To continue forward, the Aspirant must use this new capacity only to 'see'; patiently lurking as a warrior and evaluating all situations very carefully before taking new steps. The Aspirant then approaches this newly developed clarity of consciousness in a scientifically skeptical manner.

And a moment will come when the Aspirant will come to understand that this clarity is but a veil to a more subtle level of consciousness that is much more intimately entwined with the voice of his or her Angel. The Aspirant will then arrive at a position where nothing can interfere with this communication. Thus will he or she have attained Adeptship; true Magickal power with the Adept's Angel becoming his or her ally and an unmistakable feeling of invincibility overtakes him or her. Yet the Great Work has only just begun and the danger of failure is even greater. The tendency here, is to surrender to this power and be wielded by it rather than mastering it. In such a trance, the Adept becomes intolerant of the True Will of others as he or she becomes cruel and capricious. Such an Adept has no control over him or herself, and cannot tell when or how to use his power.

In order to overcome this occlusion, the Adept must learn to keep him or herself in line at all times, handling carefully and faithfully, all that he or she has learned. He or she will then reach a point where everything is held in check and the Adept will then know when and how to use his power; becoming a true Master.
—————
as a vehicle of self-expression and the unfolding of its complex, omnipresent nature, it is then determined to have a special status as an holy tongue that speaks on many different levels simultaneously. These can not be directly approached through the linear nature of casual reading; as there are higher spiritual levels within the text, invisible to the naked eye as is the deity itself.
——————
The word sphinxmeans to bind or close a circle tightly, and that the Great Sphinx binds the circle that begins at Virgo (Babalon) and ends at Leo (the Lion-Beast) in the Zodiacby virtue of its alignment. It is then in this conjunction of the beginning and the end (Babalon astride the Beast); the ‘Alpha et Omega’ and most significantly the Ouroboros Serpent eating its own tail. Here the circuit of life is fully articulated; suggesting immortality. But also the dual nature of humanity is suggested as Babalon representsthe human spirit and the Lion-Beast represents our animal nature.Also that Osiris’ Throne being the Womb of Isis and connected to the Nile River we have a strong representation of the power of the Goddess as the Spirit of God. And the fact that Osirisstarts out as a man suggests a key to transforming our own mortal nature into an immortal soul; filled with the light that is the breath of God; flowing from the womb of the Goddess.”

interesting stuff
thanks wellread

Shiva,
everyone,
great stuff
keep it all coming

I’m still trying to find the first seal
if i get around to it
in the mean time


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hermitas
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Where I am with it today...

I get being on the "other team," so to speak. But, taken literally, the whole forcing people to worship the Beast and to take the Mark of the Beast against their wills (Rev. 13:15-17)... It's strikingly un-Thelemic - to force someone to worship against their will. It's a complete mystery to me. I can't make sense of it.

To force someone to take our religion or starve and/or die... That's what small-minded religious fundamentalist imbeciles do. To my mind, that kind of mentality is precisely the problem Thelema seeks to free individuals from to follow their own will.

Anyway, John's Revelation sounds like two perverted, small-minded, fallen religions fighting each other, each being a shadow of their core beliefs. Yes, that - Thelema possessed by its own Shadow.

I can't get behind it.

"...convert not..." AL. III. 42

"Then they shall chance to abide in this bliss or no; it is no odds." AL. III. 39

"Man has the right to think as he will." OZ. 3

I guess I'll go for a walk and see what comes to me.


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hermitas
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Oo-oooooohh...

Maybe it’s describing the *end* of the Aeon of Horus.

Then it would make sense if Thelema had become as dogmatic as self-contradictory as Christianity is now.


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Jamie J Barter
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@hermitas :
Maybe it’s describing the *end* of the Aeon of Horus.

I thought it was meant to describe the "end" Times of the Aeon of Osiris.

The Heruvian Aeon is not likely to last the whole two thousand odd years, in fact it has been breaking down since, well, about the time Crowley passed on (not that there's a causal connection); the possibility of the idea of a "Double Current" was not even considered before then. "These days" our whole concept of the linearity and 'clockworkness' of space-time is morphing so that that particular model (the study of Aeonics) doesn't seem to hold air, or water, or up, as much as it used to any more. Kenneth Grant may well have been onto something with his ideas about their coming simultaneity rather than sequential precession through the Equinoxes, though I don't quite get where his Aeon of Zayin (the next one after Maat, formerly the Wordless one?) comes in as apart from anything else the would-be finality & conclusiveness of the feminine Maatian 'daughter' aspect of the Tetragrammaton formula resolves and balances the masculine Heruvian 'son' energies manifested by the crowned & conquering child(ren - cf. The Sun Atu).

N Joy


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hermitas
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I’m a Libra Sun.

The Aeon of Maat is tempting. I don’t know. It just seems... I don’t know.

The Law got inside me. Maybe my Libra makes me a little different.

I don’t know. But I swung with crazy, and the Law is what saved me.

I’ll figure a way to be good with it. It’s in me, even if I don’t fit the usual mold or whatever. I’m not even sure that there’s really supposed to be a usual mold.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Love is the law, love under will.


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Shiva
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h: But, taken literally, the whole forcing people to worship the Beast and to take the Mark of the Beast against their wills (Rev. 13:15-17)… It’s strikingly un-Thelemic.

I agree. But Rev does not mention "Thelema."

I can’t make sense of it.

Neither can anyone else.
What if AC/Thelema were not the beast (#1 or #2), or the dragon in Rev?
What if Rev has been re-written so much that it no longer represents the original vision?
What if John had been taking those little mushrooms they have over there?
What if John lost his grip for a while, and cooked up a fantastic second coming with all the enhancements of the astral plane? (which is glamour, based on desire)
What if John merely copied Rev from some older Babylonian or Sanskrit text ... and his lingo skills weren't very good?

You see? There are too many possibilities for error, and not enough hard data. As Christian children (apo pontos ...), we were taught to accept the Bible literally. Let's not continue to do that, even if it's a hidden tendency that needs evocation by the wand and the triangle.

"The writers of the Bible wereHoly Men of God," is what the minister said to me. "And they, being perfect, could make no error." Nothing was said about the translators and spin artists that followed.

Surely, we all must recognize the absurd, ridiculous position of the minister, even as he is parroting the pre-ordained answers that were drilled into him in four years of the S.S. (seminary school).

Maybe it’s describing the *end* of the Aeon of Horus.

Now that's a novel thought. All this stuff is overshadowed by the earlier archetypes. In this case the Horus/Set skit. Horus grows up and goes looking for uncle Set, because uncle Set killed his brother Osiris (who was Horus' father). "Let it be first understood that I am a god of war and of vengeance." (the avenging of Osiris' death, in case you're not connecting the dots).

All the Christian concepts were, more or less, the olde Aegyptian beliefs redressed in Hebrew robes, courtesy of Moses, and then re-dressed again in the Mithras play, still using the olde Aegyptian actors ... under new names.

The next Aeon up is Ma'at, but it's ruled by ...

Harmachis (Egyptian Ḥrw-m-ḫ.t, "Horus in the horizon").

A Name of the great Sphinx: Name under which the great Sphinx of Gizeh was venerated as the embodiment of the sun god since the beginning of the New Kingdom (c. 1500 BC).

So if Horus has been promoted to Ruler of the Two Horizons - or All of the Horizon ("Horus-zone"), then the "eternal" battle between Horus and Set has ended. Set no longer controls the western gate into the Tuat.

It'll make a great movie.


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Tiger
(@tiger)
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Sword Spear Lance wields the Daughter whirling into action.
The balance of the universe has been disturbed.
The dance of the many wiled whirling phantom showing.
Justesse no?
https://youtu.be/xdnA_iEMHyw

"There is an Assyrian legend of a woman with a fish,
And also there is a legend of Eve and the Serpent,
for Cain was the child of Eve and the Serpent, and not of Eve and Adam; and therefore when he had slain his brother, who was the first murderer, having sacrificed living things to his demon, had Cain the mark upon his brow, which is the mark of the Beast spoken of in the Apocalypse, and is the sign of Initiation.

The shedding of blood is necessary, for God did not hear the children of Eve until blood was shed. And that is external religion; but Cain spake not with God, nor had the mark of initiation upon his brow, so that he was shunned of all men, until he had shed blood. And this blood was the blood of his brother. This is a mystery of the sixth key of the Tarot, which ought not to be called The Lovers, but The Brothers.

In the middle of the card stands Cain; in his right hand is the Hammer of Thor with which he hath slain his brother, and it is all wet with his blood. And his left hand he holdeth open as a sign of innocence. On his right hand is his mother Eve, around whom the serpent is entwined with his hood spread behind her head; and on his left hand is a figure somewhat like the Hindoo Kali, but much more seductive. Yet I know it to be Lilith. And above him is the Great Sigil of the Arrow, downward, but it is struck through the heart of the child. This child also is Abel. And the meaning of this part of the card is obscure, but that is the correct drawing of the Tarot card; and that is the correct magical fable from which the Hebrew scribes, who were not complete Initiates, stole their legend of the Fall and the subsequent events.

The colour of the Serpent is purple, Mercury in the scale of the Queen, the wings tinged with crimson.

Binah the great Mother. In this symbol is therefore a complete glyph of the equilibrium necessary to begin the Great Work. But, as to the final mystery, that is left unsolved. Perfect is the plan to produce life, but the nature of this life is concealed. It is capable of taking any possible form; but what form? That is dependent upon the influences attendant on gestation.

The figure in the air presents some difficulty.
Wantonness, irresponsibility, and the love of playing tricks.
He carries a bow and arrows in a golden quiver. Sometimes a torch. He has golden wings, and is blindfolded.

From this, it may appear that he represents the intelligent (and, at the same time, unconscious) will of the soul to unite itself with all and sundry, as has been explained in the general formula with regard to the agony of separateness.
the source of all action “

Atu VI
The Children of the Voice: The Oracle of the Mighty Gods
https://nofaithinthehumanrace.com/777/?deck=crowley&key=17&show777=0


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wellreadwellbred
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Aleister Crowley’s Class A text Liber 65 (An account of the relations of the aspirant and his Holy Guardian Angel.) chaper 5, verse 5., described he “god-form” “Hoor“ thus: … now is Hoor let down into the Animal Soul of Things like a fiery star that falleth upon the darkness of the earth."

This is in the Christian Bible prefigured by the falling star associated with the only mention of wormwood in the New Testament part of the Christian Bible, in the Apocalypse of John, chapter 8, verse 10 and 11.:
"10. The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water— 11. the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter."

In his Liber LXV commentary Crowley says: "The “Animal Soul of things”, i.e., the Nephesch of the World. The Lord of the Aeon represents more than a new stage in the progressive infiltration of the darkness of matter by light. He acts directly on the World of Assiah." (The physical level of Assiah is our physical finite realm, including the cosmological Universe studied by Science. (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Worlds))

The last section of The text “The Star Called Wormwood by Frater Apollonius 4°=7□ A∴A∴”, found here http://archidox.org/The%20Starry%20Gnosis.pdf:

"In order for the godhead to involve and create the manifestation that occurs in Malkuth, the godhead or its immediate progeny (higher angels) must drink of the poisoned waters of life. But this poison is for us a sacrament that brings us to the vision of our inherent divinity. The season of death is then the season of transformation from our potential immortality to the actual; from the mundane to the divine; each and every one of us being a god. The descent of the Holy Guardian Angel into our physical being is the falling star of light; Lucifer/Prometheus, who brings spirit or fire into the heart of
mankind. This is evidenced in each of us, our individual genius; our true Christ consciousness. "The descent of the Holy Guardian Angel into our physical being is the falling star of light; Lucifer/Prometheus, who brings spirit or fire into the heart of mankind. This is evidenced in each of us, our individual genius; our true Christ consciousness."


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hermitas
(@hermitas)
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Topic starter  

Okay. I’ll reveal my ignorance.

Who is Frater Apollonius and what’s his reputation? I’ve gone by some pretty fancy names myself.


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Tiger
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Frater Apollonius
is the entity that used the scribe and entered into the public.
The document is always in question
as well as the fancy names
gone
by the selves
witnessed and documented.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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h: Who is Frater Apollonius and what’s his reputation?

I never heard of him 'til now. His reputation is 4=7, or a Philosophus of the G.D., which is the outer order of the A.'.A.'. It's a bit unusual for a 4=7 to be issuing public statements that explain the mystery of the Path, especially since a 4=7 (theoretically) hasn't undergone the experience he is describing.

I guess there are different ways of looking at it.

Around here, one's "reputation" is less important than the words or acts a person issues or performs. After reading (actually, while reading) the quoted text and the scenario it portrays, I thought this is pretty good, but I felt somethin' ain't right here.

That's just my thought and a tenuous feeling.


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hermitas
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Topic starter  

Well. To my mind, it has the form and flavor of scholarship, but all the associations he tries to draw are rather rambling, tenuous, and unconvincing.

[This] *may be* associated with [this] which *may be* associated with [this]; THEREFORE [this]!

One may make a loose association of anything.

Meh.

He could have left out 95% of what he claimed and quoted and still made the same case. But I am left *more* skeptical of his point for all the stretches of loose associations.

Sorry. I can be kind of hard on stuff like that. All I read was “Wormwood” appendix though. I know nothing of the rest of the document. Apologies if the author is anyone reading along.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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h: Apologies if the author is anyone reading along.

I am not the author, but I am reading along. You gave wings to my skeptical bird. I also wondered about the "comes down to the physical plane" emphasis. It has been my experience that one doesn't get visited at Malkuth, but that one is transported to an intermediate plane where a/the dialog takes place.

The physical plane can still be seen, but the exalted presence is superimposed over that dense point of view, assuming a "greater reality" and giving rise to comments like, "This material matter stuff is illusion."

"Transportation" is provided by invocation, libation, or sometimes (if one is not listening properly) a physical illness will squeeze one silly 'til they get the radio tuned in properly.


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arthuremerson
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Hermitas, you say:

Well. To my mind, it has the form and flavor of scholarship, but all the associations he tries to draw are rather rambling, tenuous, and unconvincing.

Sorry. I can be kind of hard on stuff like that. All I read was “Wormwood” appendix though. I know nothing of the rest of the document. Apologies if the author is anyone reading along.

Your apology is neither acceptable nor accepted. You should be hard on such things whether or not the author is among us.


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wellreadwellbred
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hermias: "To force someone to take our religion or starve and/or die… That’s what small-minded religious fundamentalist imbeciles do. To my mind, that kind of mentality is precisely the problem Thelema seeks to free individuals from to follow their own will.

Anyway, John’s Revelation sounds like two perverted, small-minded, fallen religions fighting each other, each being a shadow of their core beliefs. Yes, that – Thelema possessed by its own Shadow.

I can’t get behind it."

The Holy Book of Thelema Book 65 (Chapter I, verse 2 to 10) apparently speaks agains fretting or make a fuss about, or debating over the various “images” or “colors” in which "the light" that "is one" is reflected into different individual’s understandings, i.e. the various religions and philosophies of the world.
And The Holy Book of Thelema Book 10 (verse 19 and 20) states "... you will easily understand that the religions of the world are but symbols and veils of the Absolute Truth. So also are the philosophies. To the adept, seeing all these things from above, there seems nothing to choose between Buddha and Mohammed, between Atheism and Theism. 20. The many change and pass; the one remains.

"Chapter I. 2. Adonai spake unto V.V.V.V.V., saying: There must ever be division in the word. 3. For the colours are many, but the light is one. 4. Therefore thou writest that which is of mother of emerald, and of lapis-lazuli, and of turquoise, and of alexandrite. 5. Another writeth the words of topaz, and of deep amethyst, and of gray sapphire, and of deep sapphire with a tinge as of blood. 6. Therefore do ye fret yourselves because of this. 7. Be not contented with the image. 8. I who am the Image of an Image say this. 9. Debate not of the image, saying Beyond! Beyond! One mounteth unto the Crown by the moon and by the Sun, and by the arrow, and by the Foundation, and by the dark home of the stars from the black earth. 10. Not otherwise may ye reach unto the Smooth Point."

(Source: Liber LXV, I:2-10, (= Book 65, LIBER CORDIS CINCTI SERPENTE (= "The Book of the Heart encircled with a Serpent"), a Holy Book of Thelema, written: 30th October 1907 to 3rd November 1907).) Crowley's description: "An account of the relations of the Aspirant with his Holy Guardian Angel. This book is given to Probationers, as the attainment of the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel is the Crown of the Outer College."

"19. To you who yet wander in the Court of the Profane we cannot yet reveal all; but you will easily understand that the religions of the world are but symbols and veils of the Absolute Truth. So also are the philosophies. To the adept, seeing all these things from above, there seems nothing to choose between Buddha and Mohammed, between Atheism and Theism. 20. The many change and pass; the one remains. Even as wood and coal and iron burn up together in one great flame, if only that furnace be of transcendent heat; so in the alembic of this spiritual alchemy, if only the zelator blow sufficiently upon his furnace all the systems of earth are consumed in the One Knowledge. 21. Nevertheless, as a fire cannot be started with iron alone, in the beginning one system may be suited for one seeker, another for another. 22. We therefore who are without the chains of ignorance, look closely into the heart of the seeker and lead him by the path which is best suited to his nature unto the ultimate end of all things, the supreme realization, the Life which abideth in Light, yea, the Life which abideth in Light."

(Source: Liber Porta Lucis sub figura X, lines 19-22, (= Book 10, "The Book of the Gate of Light under the number 10", a Holy Book of Thelema, written: December 12, 1907). Crowley’s descriptions; “This book is an account of the sending forth of the Master by the A∴ A∴ and an explanation of his mission […] X. Porta Lucis, the Gate of Light, is one of the titles of Malkuth, whose number is X." — Liber 207: A Syllabus of the Official Instructions of the A∴A∴. "LIBER X. This book is called ‘The Gate of Light’. It explains how those who have attained initiation, taking pity upon the darkness and minuteness of the earth, send forth a messenger to men. The message follows. It is an appeal to those who, being developed beyond the average of their fellows, see fit to take up the Great Work. This Work is then described in general terms with a few hints of its conditions." — Confessions, chapter 69.


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Tiger
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from BLUE to GOLD
Fom al-Haut from scientific Arabic فم الحوت fam al-ḥūt (al-janūbī) "the mouth of the [Southern] Fish"

“To my mind, it has the form and flavor of scholarship, but all the associations he tries to draw are rather rambling, tenuous, and unconvincing.”

Yes it sounds more like a scribe using a pseudonym than a presence that is using the scribe.
there might be a nugget here and there worthy of a sidereal glance over coffee.

“Fom al-Haut from scientific Arabic فم الحوت fam al-ḥūt (al-janūbī) "the mouth of the [Southern] Fish" holds a special significance in extrasolar planet research, as it is the center of the first stellar system with an extrasolar planet candidate (designated Fomalhaut b, later named Dagon) imaged at visible wavelengths. The image was published in Science in November 2008.[18] Fomalhaut is the third-brightest star (as viewed from Earth) known to have a planetary system, after the Sun and Pollux. “
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fomalhaut


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
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@hermitas

The Aeon of Maat is tempting. I don’t know. It just seems… I don’t know.

When I first read Outside the Circles of Time in 1980, I was very sceptical about the Aeon of Maat being here now, and I couldn't really follow Kenneth Grant's thinking on the matter. A few years later I became increasingly interested in the Amalantrah Working with the frequent occurrence of the egg symbolism throughout many of the visions that comprise the Working, and in some of the gematria that occurs in Crowley's analysis of some of those visions. Then, a few years later, courtesy of Kenneth Grant I acquired a copy of the correspondence of 1948 and 1948 between Gerald Yorke and Charles Stansfeld Jones, and over the succeeding years have gained a much better understanding of the implications of the inauguration of the Aeon of Ma on 2nd April 1948. Something similar can be gleaned from the work of Parsons. As referred to in Jamie's post earlier in this thread, the Aeons can be seen as states of awareness, not in linear succession.


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hermitas
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@Michael Staley

Well, referring back to my personal experiences, there was definitely "instruction" in terms of the Beast and RHK, Babalon, and Nuit. Definitely. I describe it as my brain being "rebooted" with these characters coming into consciousness. That definitely happened. It went deep - to the core.

And as far at the process of my own individuation in my life, RHK makes total sense. I've had to fight for my individuation. I still have to fight for it. This is like a daily thing almost.

But intellectually, HPK seems *too silent* in this equation. Maybe it's because I'm a Libra Sun. But there's a desire for more balance between the emphasis between the two faces of Heru-Ra-Ha. Intellectually, I should have *two* options at every moment for achieving my will, and one of those options is *passivity*, sacrifice - the other half of the equation. And that too has come to me in my personal, experiential instruction.

So, I don't know if that makes me more suited for the Aeon of Maat or what. I haven't read anything about it. I have read The Anatomy of the Body of God by Achad, and it was incredible. But he also seems to have lost it at the end, or that's how the story is told.

I'm frustrated. I really would like to fit in somewhere. As much as I've resisted labels, I really would like to have one these days. I just always feel so "out there" and contrarian no matter where I am.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
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@hermitas

So, I don’t know if that makes me more suited for the Aeon of Maat or what. I haven’t read anything about it. I have read The Anatomy of the Body of God by Achad, and it was incredible. But he also seems to have lost it at the end, or that’s how the story is told.

I don't think he did lose it. His letters to Yorke throughout 1948 and 1949 (he died in early 1950) are clear and well-argued, as are his letters around the same time to his colleague in the Universal Brotherhood, Albert Handel. I'm hoping that the book I am preparing with my friend Michael Barham will demonstrate that.


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wellreadwellbred
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hermitas: "If John is a real prophet, and his vision actually does reflect a symbolic perspective on the real future...

Then the Lake of Fire absolutely must represent something positive, or at least transformative, to those who follow the teachings of To Mega Therion, defined as Aliester Crowley.

Because defining the Lake of Fire as eternal torment equates it with infinite torment. And infinite torment over time becomes infinitely unjust. Such a God would be worthy of our opposition in any case.

So either the Lake of Fire actually represents something positive, or we have to just man up and oppose such a God anyway.

Aghh..., It all just sounds so absurd."

 

"Forever in the Bible can be literally translated "until the end of the age" or as long as he shall live. The wicked are consumed, burned up, turned to ashes (Mal. 4:1, 3). The old age of sin and death ends. God ushers in a new age. (see Rev. 21:1-4). God creates a new heavens and new earth with no more crying, death, sickness or pain. In the Old Testament, a slave was to serve his master forever (Ex. 21:6). Hannah brought her son Samuel to the temple forever (1 Sam. 1:22).

In both these instances the time period was as long as they lived. 1 Sam. 1:28 clearly states, "as long as he lives he shall be lent to the Lord." Jonah even uses the expression "forever" to describe his experience in the belly of the whale (see Jon. 2:6). Forever was a limited, not an unending time. It was as long as the Lord decreed, until the end of the age or as long as Jonah could live in that environment.

The punishment of the wicked will be everlasting (Matt. 25:46). They will be consumed. Burned to ashes, they will be gone forever. It is not everlasting "punishing" or a continued state of torment. The idea of an eternally burning hell would make God a cosmic monster, delighting in destroying His creatures. A loving God must blot sin out of the universe or it will destroy the entire planet. Like a cancer surgeon, He must cut out the disease, however painful." (Source: "Hell [...] What about the texts which declare the wicked will burn forever (like Rev. 20:10)?" - - -  http://www.desirethetruth.com/index.php/bible-answers/answers-about-what-happens-when-you-die-5  )

 


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wellreadwellbred
(@wellreadwellbred)
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And Aleister Crowley does put a positive spin on being utterly consumed by fire, and by what he describes as hell's unquenchable fire, interpreting it as "... the purging of the worldly Fire in the Aeon of Horus.", in the second most important book of his Thelema, The Vision and the Voice. (Souces: The Cry of the 25th Aethy "The Path of Teth (Atu XI. The Fire-Kerub in the Initiation). The Vision of the Fruit of the Great Work of the Beast - 666. The Lion.", The Cry of the 6th Aethyr, "The Vision of the Urn. The Magus 9° = 2□. The Three Schools of Magick.", The Cry of the 5th Aethyr "The Vision of the Middle Pillar. (Arrow). The Mystery Of Atheism.", and The Cry of the 2nd Aethyr "The Marriage of the Seer with BABALON. (Atu VI).")


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
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You mean i may not get to burn in Hell forever with AC, and Oscar Wilde, and Bill Burroughs, and Johnny Thunders, etc? And everyone i ever admired, or wanted to hang out with, or was friends with ever (and of course my whole family for several generations, minus my saved aunt and uncle) But i'll just get burnt up quick? 

The whole dancing about in a nightie with a harp, hanging out with everyone who hated me in school, thing still sounds insipid at best, and realistically like pretty much my idea of Hell.

But thanx, wrwb, as always, for your typically useful and illuminating contributions.

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why did the whole forum suddenly turn into italics while i was typing this post? I suspect demonic forces.

 


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Oh, it's just The Burning Ground, mentioned recently several times here as being The work of the Outer Order, starting at Yesod. Many readers and posters here are burning away right now ... and will, until they clear The Portal at Paroketh. Then a new type of ignition takes place.

.


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wellreadwellbred
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ignant666: "You mean i may not get to burn in Hell forever with AC, and Oscar Wilde, and Bill Burroughs, and Johnny Thunders, etc? And everyone i ever admired, or wanted to hang out with, or was friends with ever (and of course my whole family for several generations, minus my saved aunt and uncle) But i'll just get burnt up quick?"

John Nelson Darby, founder of the Plymouth Brethren, among whom A. Crowley lived during his childhood and youth, preached everlasting punishment in:

"... the coming judgment and the unquenchable fire of hell ."

Stating "... that in the day of the wrath of God, men terrified even to despair will continue blaspheming God, and will not repent. (Rev. 16:11-21.)", and "... that in regard to the wicked it will one day be said, “He that is unrighteous let him be unrighteous still,” and he “that is filthy let him be filthy still,” and “without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters,” and “whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Rev. 22:11-15.)". Rhetorically asking "Do these passages in any way give us the slightest ground for the supposition of a change and the salvation of the damned?" And stating that "Ah, man by nature is sin and enmity against God, he hates his Creator and will hate Him forever, and most assuredly even in hell would he reject the sacrifice of Christ, just as he has rejected it here."  (Sources: ""Everlasting Punishment: Part 1. Book: Bible Treasury: Volume 7 By: John Nelson Darby"" - - - https://bibletruthpublishers.com/everlasting-punishment-part-1/john-nelson-darby-jnd/bible-treasury-volume-7/la66678 , and "Everlasting Punishment: Part 2. Book: Bible Treasury: Volume 7 By: John Nelson Darby" - - -  https://bibletruthpublishers.com/everlasting-punishment-part-2/john-nelson-darby-jnd/bible-treasury-volume-7/la66685 )

To make it clear that his The Book of the Law, the most important book of his Thelema, represents the one day predicted by John Nelson Darby, that it in regard to the wicked will be said “He that is unrighteous let him be unrighteous still,” and he “that is filthy let him be filthy still, ...” (Rev. 22:11), Aleister Crowley wrote within it that:

"He that is righteous shall be righteous still; he that is filthy shall be filthy still." (Source: Chapter II, verse 57).

And to make it clear that his The Book of the Law represents a rejection of John Nelson Darby's teachings that some shall be cast down in hell, and that the “Rapture” the Bible supposedly spoke of would allow certain true believers to be lifted up to heaven to watch the end time, Aleister Crowley also wrote within it that:

"Yea! deem not of change: ye shall be as ye are, & not other. Therefore the kings of the earth shall be Kings for ever: the slaves shall serve. There is none that shall be cast down or lifted up: all is ever as it was. ..." (Source: Chapter II, verse 58).


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Taking my stand with the "dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, [...] and idolaters"; the "murderers" maybe not.

Are you a Christian, wrwb? Please answer yes or no.


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dom
 dom
(@dom)
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Posted by: @ignant666

; the "murderers" maybe not.

 

Ex mafia hit-men? 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
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Posts: 3401
 

I have been fairly close friends with two men who murdered folks for a living, a (now dead) hit-man for Brooklyn heroin dealing crews, who took up robbing drug dealers after the market changed and his job security ended, and a cop in Brazil (after 3 prison sentences, now an ex-cop, still un-killed though) who murdered many drug dealers he was robbing, thus my "maybe".

The Brooklyn one had a standing offer to kill anyone i wanted dead; was always nice remembering this in faculty meetings. The Brazilian one's most chilling story about work ended with "Then we killed everything that had eyes, even the chickens."

I am generally anti-murder, but take my friends where i can find them.

ONCE MORE: WHY DID THIS THREAD GO ALL ITALICS SEVERAL POSTS BACK?


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posted by: @ignant666

ONCE MORE: WHY DID THIS THREAD GO ALL ITALICS SEVERAL POSTS BACK?

Because ...


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wellreadwellbred
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ignant666: "Are you a Christian, wrwb? Please answer yes or no."

No, but I find aspects of it useful to understand the way AC authored the most important book of his Thelema..

The Plymouth Brethren's most prominent early leader, John Nelson Darby (1800-82), taught that Christ might return at any moment and in a "secret rapture" would take away the members of the true church to dwell in heaven.

As this rapture can occur at any time, then no tribulation signs such as the revelation of the antichrist, the battle of Armageddon, or the abomination of desolation precede it, that is, this rapture will occur before the tribulation.

 

Another argument Darby gave in favor of the pretribulation rapture is that the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit must be removed before the antichrist can be revealed (II Thess. 2:6-8). Because the Spirit is particularly associated with the church, it follows that the church must be absent from the scene when the Spirit is gone:

"I believe [...] that there will be something that hinders, and that consequently the wicked one will not be revealed until that shall be gone [...]. The wicked one would have been revealed before his time by the movement of the principles and will of man, if there had not been something which arrested, bridled."

"There was a restrainer until He should be taken out of the way, and then the lawless one would be revealed."

"The second chapter of the second Epistle to the Thessalonians teaches us that the "mystery of iniquity" was already working; that, when an obstacle which then existed should be taken out of the way, that "wicked one" should be revealed".

(Sources, respectively:

"Antichrist. Collection: Notes, Letters & Other Darby Writings. Book: Letters 3By: John Nelson Darby. 2 Thessalonians 2:7" - - -  https://bibletruthpublishers.com/antichrist/john-nelson-darby-jnd/letters-3/notes-letters-other-darby-writings/la64133.

"Inquiry as to the Antichrist of Prophecy. Collection: Collected Writings of J.N. Darby. Book: Collected Writings of J.N. Darby: Prophetic 2. By: John Nelson Darby" - - - https://bibletruthpublishers.com/inquiry-as-to-the-antichrist-of-prophecy/john-nelson-darby-jnd/collected-writings-of-j-n-darby-prophetic-2/la62273.

"On The Formation Of Churches, John Nelson Darby. This essay was published originally in French, in Switzerland, about 1840. In English it has been entitled, "Reflections on the Ruined Condition of the Church; and on the Efforts made by Churchmen and Dissenters to Restore it to its Primitive Order." - - - http://biblecentre.org/content.php?mode=7&item=618.)

So when Aleister Crowley in Chapter III, verse 19 of his The Book of the Law wrote "That stele they shall call the Abomination of Desolation; [....] .", this is a rejection of John Nelson Darby's teaching that a "secret rapture" will have taken away the members of the true church (= his church) to dwell in heaven, before tribulation signs like the abomination of desolation can occur, and the lawless one can be revealed.

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I do not suspect demonic forces being behind this thread going all italics several posts back.


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