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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
30/06/2011 9:45 pm  

93,

I put this in the Thelema forum, as I don't have the ability to created polls in the Stuff forum (?).

So, on the idea of lashtal.com premium, it has come up many times before. Essentially...

Would you pay for access to lashtal.com? Even $1 USD, or $5 USD per month? (Of course the amount would be in British pounds, and thus the actual payment in USD may or may not adjust to current exchange rates. I don't know how all of that works.)

If so, what price would you mind paying? Which features do you think you should have access to, in the case that various "packages" were available?

If you would not pay for lashtal.com premium, why not?

Please understand this thread is 100% self-motivated. I made it on my own, of my own accord. This thread is hypothetical, and designed to simply get an idea of the overall would-be participation here.

Of course, the website belongs to Paul, it's his baby, and what he wants to do with the site is always entirely up to him, even in the case of this becoming a premium site. However, it doesn't hurt for us to show support of this opus in one way or another.

If you don't want to respond to the thread, and are just lurking, it doesn't hurt to respond to the poll, yes or no.

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
30/06/2011 10:06 pm  

I wouldn't mind paying a yearly subscription of say $12~15.

I mostly use the forums but I'm slowly realizing (!) that there's a lot more to this site. 🙂 I personally enjoy these forums more than the other major Thelema/Crowley forum I know of, heruraha.net. I find the atmosphere here more to my liking. I'm a Thelemite but not an "orthodox Thelemite" ( 🙄 ) so I enjoy the fact that this site draws many Typhonians, non-Thelemites, etc into the fray.

I've never donated but I haven't been that active either until the last few months (lurking and reading). Its funny this topic was brought up today, because for the past few days I have considered donating. Perhaps the gravity of a future "inevitable necessity" is starting to affect the past. 🙂

So basically: I wouldn't mind helping to support the site should it become mandatory.


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stanforda
(@stanforda)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 112
30/06/2011 10:06 pm  

Definitely yes, if it came to it I would pay upto £5 per month.
If the site needed to become subscription based I would pay upto the above amount even with the sites content remaining as it is now. Of course there could be a few extras, and excess from the membership fees could be put to good use maybe.

John


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Ariock
(@ariock)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 108
30/06/2011 10:09 pm  

Rather than just a poll, let's just take The Babble-On Box discussion here and present and discuss various ideas. As I stated in the Box, I feel that my monthly subscription is a bargain for the value that I get out of LAShTAL. I further consider it an "investment" in Thelema.

The current primary discussion has been for subscriptions, which many have seemed to agree would be a good idea. Of course that has always been an option, and there are only a handful of us putting our money where our mouth is. There is also the issue of Paul's resistance to a required subscription, which he will have to expound on.

I would think targeted ad sales would be appropriate. You can go through numerous news items and threads and see that people find out about, and buy items because of LAShTAL. Have a product announcement forum that costs a fiver to post in, or charge 25 for a front page news post w/pic. Not a huge investment for a proven return.

We could also have a bit of a "bake sale" where members can donate items to sell with proceeds going to the site.

For those who often want to use the site to sell goods from their collections for their own profit, a classified section in the forums can be made. Again 5 per listing.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
30/06/2011 10:13 pm  

Thank goodness and evil for this thread, I was just trying to write this in the chat box, and my eyes are showing their age.

I think I've shared these thoughts with Paul long ago, but I believe that subscriptions are the solution to what must be an ever increasing burden for him. I don't usually bother with making donations to things as a Rule, I really don't, unless they are part of a real solution to the problem at hand, which isn't the case here. I will gladly pay whatever is charged so long as subscription is mandatory, whereby I believe the problem will truly solved. In fact, I'll subscribe twice, I'll be so happy 🙂


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 915
30/06/2011 10:52 pm  

I already pay the 5GBP a month gladly. Its a tiny investment on a huge return. I think its inevitable that LAShTAL increase the number of subscribers and I think there needs to be some kind of incentive which will draw more paying members at no cost to Paul. Here are some ideas.

1. Private subscriber forums

2. Coupons and targets ads for members only - lashtal members get 10% off at Wesier for example or some book dealer sells a very rare book and gives lashtal pay members advance notice before posting en mass.

3. Many recent deluxe volumes have sold out in a matter of hours. David Beth's Voudon Gnosis being one example. What if a publisher set aside two deluxes for lashtal members and let the subscriber list know ahead of time they were available. that way lashtal pay members have an extra day to get in on popular new releases. If the books dont sell to lashtal members by the time of general announcement they go back into general stock. No loss to anyone but a HUGE perk for bibliophile members.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
30/06/2011 10:59 pm  

What would be on offer that isn't now? What could be devised?

Although the costs have to be met somehow, and I certainly appreciate that, "membership of this site is and always will be free" won't have been particularly meaningful if it suddenly goes behind a paywall simply because the webmaster is approaching retirement. Sure, it can't be a burden on him, but what about members who are themselves retired or otherwise strapped for cash?

Perhaps the best thought might be for discreet but relevant advertisements to be available for those who wish, those who obtain commercial benefit from a presence here, such as publishers (I've just gone and made myself even more unpoplular, haven't I! argh!)? This site gets around thirty thousand hits each day. Even if it's only the same thousand people hitting it thirty times it's still a thousand people, which is a good crowd. This site's reputation and value as a 'one stop crowley shop' surely has to 'count' for something in this respect - it's well known and benefits the community in many ways. This surely ought to be able to be reflected in some way that can finance itself.

Individual members might have the option of an enhanced experience somehow, additionally to what presently exists, with a small subscription fee involved. Perhaps an 'art' marketplace, or a monthly lashtal periodical pdf, could be downloadable for a small sum, potential donations being also accepted in non-fiscal terms but generating finance though furnishing content for it? Not wishing to make headaches, just throwing ideas into the mix.


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Frater_HPK
(@frater_hpk)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 104
30/06/2011 11:08 pm  

If there will be PayPal in Serbia I would donate some small money immediately. But there is no payPal here and I can't pay from Serbia. This is only reason because i would not. If we gert pay Pal I will send same day donation for this site because i am thankful for a lot of very useful and interesting information one can find here.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
30/06/2011 11:16 pm  
"Noctifer" wrote:
Although the costs have to be met somehow, and I certainly appreciate that, "membership of this site is and always will be free" won't have been particularly meaningful if it suddenly goes behind a paywall simply because the webmaster is approaching retirement.

It could mean that, at worst, the webmaster made a miscalculation in his appraisal of the situation at one point in his life, but who hasn't? The important thing is to learn not repeat our errors, and don't be intimidated by little snerts rubbing our nose in it, trying to prevent us from doing the right thing for ourselves and our Work in the future.


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 5304
30/06/2011 11:33 pm  

Fascinating posts here, thank you.

Just for transparency, I should point out that "retirement" relates to my retirement from the public sector aged 48. I'd hate for visitors here that know me to assume I'm 65 years old and hiding a portrait in my attic!

😉

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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tc
 tc
(@tc)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 40
30/06/2011 11:41 pm  

It's a tricky one. How about this?...The next time any of us are tempted to cough up for a new edition of a book that we already own..RESIST and DONATE!
After all, an unopened book is but a block of wood, but Lashtal, well that's a living thing! 😀


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
01/07/2011 12:26 am  

93,

One quick thing, re: private forums. They have existed before (maybe still do?), and I was not a member, so I don't know how they went. However, even on these public forums there is a sort of "bleeding effect", where the contents of one thread bleed over into another, and sometimes we have to make new threads to contain off-topic things. I've created two threads just this week in order to help with that.

With private and public forums, conversations could bleed from the private forums into the public forums, which could have both positive and negative aspects. On the negative side, people would bring conversations from the private forums into the public forums, leaving the non-subscribers going "wtf?". On the positive side, the non-subscribers could be lured into paying through the same method, which could attract more paying subscribers. I don't particularly like either outcome.

I'm more for an all-or-nothing approach, to be honest. While I do have a subscription to this site, and have donated in small lump sums over the years, I think if it is going to be a premium site, it should all be premium, or none of it should be. Certainly, there could be enticing little tidbits such as allowing non-subscribers to see the forums and read the first page only in threads at a maximum of "x" threads per day, or view "x" pictures per day.

I just see that unless an all-or-nothing philosophy is adopted, you will get people from both sides of the fence complaining and generally trying to "debate" that "X content should be free" and "Y content should be subscription only", which could prove counter-productive to the entire thing.

Of course, there are members like Frater_HPK who are simply unable to provide any financial assistance to the site. In an all-or-nothing scenario he could simply be unable to participate here, which I do not think is fair. To solve this type of issue, I would suggest that there be some leniency for those who live in a certain region which makes it impossible for them to subscribe. Granted this could create the, "but people in Serbia don't have to pay, why should I?" argument. The answer would simply be that people from Serbia cannot set up subscriptions and therefore are allowed some lee-way in regards to them. I personally would have no problem with this, but maybe some would. And then, there is always mail-order which could be used. Perhaps a printable contract or something, and those living in areas such as Serbia could be required to print and fill out the contract, paying six months or one year at a time.

I also like many of the ideas presented here so far, especially the paid advertising bit. However, if this were ever implemented, the advertisers themselves would need some reassurance that they were getting a benefit from it, which means they would definitely want to track their sales from here. The lashtal.com 10% , or even 5% discount would come into play here, as it would encourage more people to make purchases from this site instead of just hopping over to say, Amazon.

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/07/2011 12:32 am  
"Camlion" wrote:
"Noctifer" wrote:
Although the costs have to be met somehow, and I certainly appreciate that, "membership of this site is and always will be free" won't have been particularly meaningful if it suddenly goes behind a paywall simply because the webmaster is approaching retirement.

It could mean that, at worst, the webmaster made a miscalculation in his appraisal of the situation at one point in his life, but who hasn't? The important thing is to learn not repeat our errors, and don't be intimidated by little snerts rubbing our nose in it, trying to prevent us from doing the right thing for ourselves and our Work in the future.

Camlion, that's an unnecessarily rude and somewhat puzzling response to what was a simple repetition of what Paul actually stated, on my part - I meant no disrespect by it, quite the contrary if anything, and I certainly hope that none was taken, Paul. Hence my contribution of positive ideas for ways in which the problem could be solved.

But if he is retiring from the Public Sector at 48, it puts the notion of 'retirement' into another light entirely, in my view. That's a luxury which few of us will have, although I can't be sure of this, speaking only for myself.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/07/2011 12:46 am  
"Noctifer" wrote:
But if he is retiring from the Public Sector at 48, it puts the notion of 'retirement' into another light entirely, in my view.

Either way, this website should be perpetually self-sustaining, imo, which I believe will be achieved if it is strictly user supported. Nothing is ever really free, it just seems that way sometimes because someone else is paying for it.


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 5304
01/07/2011 12:47 am  
"Noctifer" wrote:
I meant no disrespect by it, quite the contrary if anything, and I certainly hope that none was taken, Paul.

No, none taken. On that matter at least.

"Noctifer" wrote:
But if he is retiring from the Public Sector at 48, it puts the notion of 'retirement' into another light entirely, in my view. That's a luxury which few of us will have

Whether I am personally enjoying a "luxury" after thirty years of public service or not is, frankly, none of your business and your opinion about public sector retirements is of no interest to me and no relevance to the site. I'll state it here just this once and I do not expect and will not countenance further discussion: I will continue to work following "retirement", of course, albeit with circumstances which are likely to be sufficiently changed as to cause me some concern about future funding of the site.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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ZIN
 ZIN
(@zin)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 82
01/07/2011 1:24 am  

The traffic to this site alone should keep it afloat if it were leveraged properly. Why are there so many free ”ads” for books, for instance? Lashtal drives traffic and sales to these publisher. Yet, a large space in the center section of the homepage (prime territory) brings no revenue to Lashtal. That area needs to go commercial (like in pay to display) for relevant advertising to generate funds for the maintenance of Lashtal.

Once you start charging for some sort of membership traffic will decrease as will the value (in the monetary sense) of this website… and it will go dark.


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 5304
01/07/2011 1:42 am  

I fear you might well be right - which is why I've always avoided paid advertising.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/07/2011 7:48 am  

Greetings!

Well, I have already been subscribed for a monthly donation because of my love for AC and, of course, because I really value Lashtal.

I'm not sure that I'll be able to continue my contribution in the future, due to the current financial situation of Greece, but I do believe that it is more than fair to apply a small registration fee for participating in Lashtal.

It is one thing to have someone asking for money in order to make a personal profit and a totally different thing to offer one's time and labour for free and ask people to share the functional cost of the website.

As I see it, the sharing of the cost of the maintenance will turn Lashtal into a very interesting Thelemic experiment, since the participants would get more actively involved in the “Aleister Crowley Society” and they would start sharing the responsibility for the quality of the forums and the general energy in a more profound way.

I believe that everything happens for a reason and that, in this case, the real question is not whether Paul can bear the maintaining cost himself or not, but whether it is time for this online community to grow into a different level of being.

Regards
Hecate


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3951
01/07/2011 9:51 am  
"Hecate" wrote:
I believe that everything happens for a reason and that, in this case, the real question is not whether Paul can bear the maintaining cost himself or not, but whether it is time for this online community to grow into a different level of being.

That's put in an extremely interesting way, Hecate, to regard the need for a sustainable revenue stream as the spring-board for LAShTAL to move to another level. I'd not looked at it in that manner, but you are right. It is an opportunity.

There are two possibilities as far as I can see. Firstly, a mandatory subscription. This would, I think, reduce the membership quite a bit. Some might, perhaps, regard this as no great loss since the majority of members are silent. However, any of those might have a great potential as contributors to the discussions, a wealth of specialised information, etc. They might become more involved with the site, flaring into more active membership. For this reason, I'd rather not lose the existing pool of members, nor deter the growth of membership.

This leaves us with the idea of a two-tier membership, with a subscription level of membership offered to those who want to take it up, the revenue from which would fund the maintenance and development of the site. Some might regard this as elitist, but so what? It is a practical solution to a pressing problem, and the subscription could be set at a level within the reach of most should they so choose. There is an analogy here with the issuing of deluxe editions of books; in the case of Starfire Publishing, for instance, the revenue from the deluxe edition underpins the price of the standard, and without it the book would be priced more expensively. Similarly, a structure of subscription membership of LAShTAL would ensure that those who did not take up such membership could continue to enjoy the benefits of site membership.

The interesting question is, of course, what might comprise the subscription level of lmembership. This is where Hecate's suggestion of site development comes in. So, what sort of things might be included? Let a thousand flowers bloom . . .

Best wishes,

Michael.


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Patriarch156
(@patriarch156)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 486
01/07/2011 10:11 am  

The main boon of this site to most of those who visits it Ibelieve to not be these forums, but rather the news, the galleries and all the other parts that contains vetted knowledge tanks.

The forums on theother hand is more of a mixed bag and often source for concern for Paul, judging from his many tribulations with it.

I would suggest paid membership gives access to the forums and perhaps other new items. This would have the added benefit of rooting out the most unserious contributors that cause Paul concerns as well.

The prisoners dilemma makes it all,too,certain hst most people will opt out if given the choice whichover times demoralizes and weakens the willingness to contribute among many of those that contribute as well.

Perhaps make the AC society a dues paying organisation, access to the forums being one of its priviliges, that at the same time continues to serve the world withaccess to a wealth of properly vetted knowledge about all things AC.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3951
01/07/2011 10:28 am  

Interesting point, Patriarch156. I would have thought that the forums were the main interest. What is needed to establish this and similar points, in my view, is a poll of the membership - an email which would go out to all registered members and which would ask questions about the principal interests in the site - is it forums, news item, reviews, whatever?

Best wishes,

Michael.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/07/2011 12:12 pm  

I don't think charging a premium would be a good idea. Restricted access would just cut the forums off from the world at large so nothing that happens here would have any wider relevance unless it was subsequently published elsewhere.

It's better for developments on this forum to be available to the whole world than just a few members. That way it remains a crucial source of information.

It would be a good idea to consider other forums that charge for access and what sort of information they provide, and what makes people willing to pay for it. A feasibility study! that's what's needed! 💡


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Frater_HPK
(@frater_hpk)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 104
01/07/2011 1:42 pm  

First of all, I don't think that the idea about owner who needs to sold his private property to maintain this site is acceplable. This is problem and this problem have to be solved. Idea about VIP membership is one of the possible solutions and this is not the bad solution. If I haven't Paypal in my country, or somebody other who is in same situation, this is my problem, not the problem of the site or the city owner. But. IMO, in the situation that site has VIP members I would like to suggest, If I could may, development of the site in some new directions. This means some new parts with exclusive content only reachable by VIP members. Maybe including download section with original texts by lashtal members or something similar? IMO; news should be public available, because this is in the interest of the forum and comunuty in general. Also, maybe partnership with amazon can make some momey. A lot of people buy Crowley books, or books about Crowley or some DVD's (like Chemical Weddings) and reviews here can be linked with Amazon and for every book someone buy via lashtal.com a part of money would go to the lashtal.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/07/2011 1:55 pm  

Perhaps the opportunities for creating revenue streams to fund Lashtal.com are much broader if you consider it as a brand, and not as a website forum?

How about a Lashtal conference? Or a published Lashtal anthology of Crowley studies? Judging by some of the intelligent members here, I would have thought that a real possibility. How about a JV with an online bookseller to ensure Lashtal members get premium deals on new titles, while Paul gets a healthy cut for referral? How about an annual Lashtal walking tour of Crowley's London, with proceeds split between the guide and website? Some might draw the line at Lashtal T-shirts, but what about button badges? It might be quite a bit of fun to meet an unknown fellow Lashtalian at a social event...

As a brand, there are a substantial number of options. Some of them time-consuming, I appreciate that, but maybe JVs are the way to go...

bazelek


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 1836
01/07/2011 2:14 pm  

93!

Although I certainly would be more than willing to pay a monthly subscription for this site I also think that it is one of Lashtal.com's advantages that everybody is free to partake and so I generally agree with nashimiron's post. And at this point I absolutely favor bazelek's proposal.

Lashtal.com IS a brand!

And:

SAVE THE VIRTUAL ABBEY OF LASHTALIANS!

Love=Law
Lutz


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3951
01/07/2011 2:55 pm  

I'd like to stress that the basic level of membership would remain free, and would give access to the forums, to galleries, to news, to reviews, etc. The subscription tier of membership would give extra benefits of membership, that's all. Those extra benefits are something we could work out.

This subscription membership would yield the bread and butter of maintaining the site. Other activities such as LAShTAL conferences or LAShTAL publications would yield additional receipts which could be used for more long-term redevelopment etc.

BW, MS.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/07/2011 2:57 pm  
"bazelek" wrote:
Perhaps the opportunities for creating revenue streams to fund Lashtal.com are much broader if you consider it as a brand, and not as a website forum?

How about a Lashtal conference? Or a published Lashtal anthology of Crowley studies?

bazelek

The idea of an anthology is probably the safest bet to start with, bazelek.
There are so many people registered here on lashtal that could provide articles for the collection..


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
01/07/2011 3:26 pm  

93,

"nashimiron" wrote:
It would be a good idea to consider other forums that charge for access and what sort of information they provide, and what makes people willing to pay for it. A feasibility study! that's what's needed! 💡

Study began! See: Which Menu Item do you use most?.

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/07/2011 4:46 pm  
"FraterLucius" wrote:
The idea of an anthology is probably the safest bet to start with, bazelek. There are so many people registered here on lashtal that could provide articles for the collection..

Without knowing the costs that need to be met, I would say a Lashtal anthology, published annually and digitally, would comfortably meet the running costs.

And of course, history shows us that subscription sites, however well intentioned, are often problematic.

bazelek


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 1836
01/07/2011 5:08 pm  

93!

Reading the first few posts in the studies I wonder if maybe there is no broad interest in reading essays and articles written by members. Of course there are not so many of them so maybe that's why they don't appear in the hitlists.

Another idea for generating money:

Why let ebay do all the auctions of our valued Thelemic (in its broad sense) books and stuff? Maybe I am naive, but if there is software available that handles auctions all you have to do is provide the webspace and collect the buyer's premium. There might even be a Wanted section and members can check here first before moving on to ebay. It's the place where your valued AC books can find a new home.

Love=Law
Lutz


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/07/2011 5:10 pm  
"the_real_simon_iff" wrote:
ebeast

Brilliant... 😆


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/07/2011 5:50 pm  

Can I throw out the idea of a yearly fundraiser? Say around Crowley's birthday? Maybe some of the stores and publishers who get free exposure here would like to donate dry goods to be raffled off? Just an idea that I have seen work very well on some other forums I visit.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/07/2011 6:29 pm  

I'll happily take a break from playing the dreaded capitalist devil's advocate while all the conceivable alternatives are being considered. 🙂


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ZIN
 ZIN
(@zin)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 82
01/07/2011 7:06 pm  

I like Sol2Sol's suggestion : it's a good alternative, a good compromise, and fair.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/07/2011 7:29 pm  
"Sol2Sol" wrote:
Can I throw out the idea of a yearly fundraiser? Say around Crowley's birthday? Maybe some of the stores and publishers who get free exposure here would like to donate dry goods to be raffled off? Just an idea that I have seen work very well on some other forums I visit.

I would support this, but it isn't scalable.

Wouldn't it be better to produce a nice 'capitalist' solution that would keep the site free and open to all, and provide those who wish to financially support Lashtal something unique in return? Something created by the membership, for the membership? Something that might remain as a record if (God forbid) the plug got pulled?

Of course, it depends on how much cash is needed...

bazelek


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
01/07/2011 9:06 pm  
"the_real_simon_iff" wrote:
93!

Reading the first few posts in the studies I wonder if maybe there is no broad interest in reading essays and articles written by members. Of course there are not so many of them so maybe that's why they don't appear in the hitlists.

Maybe, I dunno. I could write/have written many essays, but I don't post them. Usually they end up re-worded into short form doomed to be lost in a thread somewhere.

I didn't even know there was an essay section until I made the Menu Items list, to be honest.

I fail... like the "e-beast" idea though.


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tony1983112
(@tony1983112)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 10
02/07/2011 10:48 pm  

Hello all,

”Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.”

I have a great love and respect for what Paul has created with the LAShTAL website, the Aleister Crowley Society, and I have been a lurker and financial contributor for many years. I enjoy most every aspect of the website from the forums to the news and the many other different options that are provided free to ALL. Now I think it is important to keep this a free service to anyone who may chance upon this website or visit many times a day. I do not think that one man should have to pay the way for everyone. I know many of you feel the same way as I do and donate regularly, but what is needed is plain and simple more financial contributors. I give out of love for this site and what it is, I do not ask for anything in return, I do it out of pure love and respect for what it is. I know many of you feel the same way and may not be a current contributor to this site, but think of what it could be if you did contribute. I guess you can call this a call to arms or I guess a call for donations, because really that is what it takes to help one person keep a site going that serves so many in our community. I think all of the ideas for future plans to help generate funds for the site are great and I wish I could do more to help out. Paul, thank you and I thank everyone who does donate to the site. Please, all who do read this think about what you can give right now and click on that donate button and help a man who provides a service to so many of us.

“Love is the law, love under will”

Tony


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 5304
03/07/2011 1:48 pm  

Here's an opportunity for a member to donate AND receive something in exchange: http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-5121.phtml

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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Ch13
 Ch13
(@ch13)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 14
03/07/2011 9:11 pm  
"tony1983112" wrote:
Hello all,

”Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.”

I have a great love and respect for what Paul has created with the LAShTAL website, the Aleister Crowley Society, and I have been a lurker and financial contributor for many years. I enjoy most every aspect of the website from the forums to the news and the many other different options that are provided free to ALL. Now I think it is important to keep this a free service to anyone who may chance upon this website or visit many times a day. I do not think that one man should have to pay the way for everyone. I know many of you feel the same way as I do and donate regularly, but what is needed is plain and simple more financial contributors. I give out of love for this site and what it is, I do not ask for anything in return, I do it out of pure love and respect for what it is. I know many of you feel the same way and may not be a current contributor to this site, but think of what it could be if you did contribute. I guess you can call this a call to arms or I guess a call for donations, because really that is what it takes to help one person keep a site going that serves so many in our community. I think all of the ideas for future plans to help generate funds for the site are great and I wish I could do more to help out. Paul, thank you and I thank everyone who does donate to the site. Please, all who do read this think about what you can give right now and click on that donate button and help a man who provides a service to so many of us.

“Love is the law, love under will”

Tony

Couldn’t agree more with Tony1983112

I’m not an economist, but sometimes I like to think as one.
5£ per month = £ 0,16666666666666666666666666666667 per day.

It isn’t much money; and IMO -not all- but many of the people who enjoy this site may afford this expense.


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amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 686
04/07/2011 3:19 pm  

OK - my current situation is fairly straitened but...your basic maths and Paul's revelation that subscription has actually gone down since this subject was broached has made my mind up - Subscribed.

We probably don't deserve all Paul's hard work but while he is still prepared to do it the least we can do is chuck something in the pot in recognition. Isn't it?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
05/07/2011 9:06 pm  

It might interesting to hear some feedback about the straw poll...

Can there really only be 23 people among 8316 registered users who would support a Lashtal premium?

For those who have donated, or would do so if paid membership was mandatory, what do we think would be a maximum acceptable charge per month?


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
06/07/2011 1:47 am  
"bazelek" wrote:
It might interesting to hear some feedback about the straw poll...

Can there really only be 23 people among 8316 registered users who would support a Lashtal premium?

It's interesting to think that if 23 people supported it already we might not be having this discussion. Although, mandatory and voluntary are two entirely different concepts.

For those who have donated, or would do so if paid membership was mandatory, what do we think would be a maximum acceptable charge per month?

This would depend on how it's all drawn up. I wouldn't mind continuing my current subscription as-is, but would probably not mind paying a bit more for "enhanced features" (such as ignore, etc) either.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
06/07/2011 10:03 am  
"Azidonis" wrote:
"bazelek" wrote:
It might interesting to hear some feedback about the straw poll...

Can there really only be 23 people among 8316 registered users who would support a Lashtal premium?

It's interesting to think that if 23 people supported it already we might not be having this discussion. Although, mandatory and voluntary are two entirely different concepts.

For those who have donated, or would do so if paid membership was mandatory, what do we think would be a maximum acceptable charge per month?

This would depend on how it's all drawn up. I wouldn't mind continuing my current subscription as-is, but would probably not mind paying a bit more for "enhanced features" (such as ignore, etc) either.

I guess my intent here Azidonis is to try and actually quantify likely subscriptions from a known starting point.

For example, I doubt 30 people contributing $5 per month would meet the basic costs. Gaining a consensus as to the maximum subscription amount should then provide some guide as to how many 'premium' members will be needed.


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
06/07/2011 4:12 pm  
"bazelek" wrote:
"Azidonis" wrote:
"bazelek" wrote:
It might interesting to hear some feedback about the straw poll...

Can there really only be 23 people among 8316 registered users who would support a Lashtal premium?

It's interesting to think that if 23 people supported it already we might not be having this discussion. Although, mandatory and voluntary are two entirely different concepts.

For those who have donated, or would do so if paid membership was mandatory, what do we think would be a maximum acceptable charge per month?

This would depend on how it's all drawn up. I wouldn't mind continuing my current subscription as-is, but would probably not mind paying a bit more for "enhanced features" (such as ignore, etc) either.

I guess my intent here Azidonis is to try and actually quantify likely subscriptions from a known starting point.

For example, I doubt 30 people contributing $5 per month would meet the basic costs. Gaining a consensus as to the maximum subscription amount should then provide some guide as to how many 'premium' members will be needed.

I don't think it costs over $150 a month to maintain this site. I could be wrong though. If it does, Paul either sets himself back a meal now and then, or he makes pretty good money. Just guessing how he is able to go out of town and post from his iPad doesn't suggest Paul is skipping any meals.

He says that whatever the price is, it will become unfeasible soon, and he has been warning us of this for a while, and I do not doubt it.

But I agree baz, we would either need some numbers to work with, or a "goal", one of those little bars and see if we could fill it or something.

I'm not sure. If I was paying over $150 a month for something I had to constantly monitor and clean up (trolls), I would be wanting some kind of returns for my efforts. Not that selfless acts aren't good, but selfless acts that have the potential to drain you can become well... succubi.

Also, this is why I am all-or-nothing about it. As it is at the moment, I don't mind tossing in my little subscription to help out. I feel like I am helping something awesome take place on the Interwebz. However, if you start telling me that 30/8,000 users are paying for premium usage to this site, I am going to start asking why the hell we 30 are paying for 7,950 freeloaders.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
06/07/2011 6:59 pm  
"Azidonis" wrote:
I don't think it costs over $150 a month to maintain this site. I could be wrong though.

Let's assume for a moment it costs exactly $150 per month. It would seem somewhat unnecessary to administrate an entire 'premium' facility just to generate that. Instead you might simply ask the most frequent 50 posters contribute $3.00 each per month.

That would seem very fair surely, and obviate any need to sell-out the site to sponsorship of Coke, or worse, become McLashtal.com. 😯

bazelek


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ZIN
 ZIN
(@zin)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 82
06/07/2011 7:11 pm  

Coke & McLashtal? Paul should be so lucky. But they won’t touch this site with a 10 foot pole.

How about the publishers that benefit the most from the free ad space they receive whenever they launch a new publication? Does Paul even get a book to auction off?


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3951
06/07/2011 7:20 pm  
"ZIN" wrote:
Coke & McLashtal? Paul should be so lucky. But they won’t touch this site with a 10 foot pole.

How about the publishers that benefit the most from the free ad space they receive whenever they launch a new publication? Does Paul even get a book to auction off?

Speaking as one of the publishers whose books are publicized on this site, I haven't done that yet, but it's a good idea and I'll do it from now on.

It's not "free ad space", incidentally, but news of books that are relevent to this site and of interest to many of the site membership. There's a difference.

Best wishes,

Michael.


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 5304
06/07/2011 9:11 pm  

Thanks for the suggestions. Probably time to move on, now, and to continue this by PM and emails.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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