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 Anonymous
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14/05/2010 2:13 am  

Oh. Okay, maybe not "the first known printed book in the West", but certainly the most important and influential of historic times, and one of the first. Certainly the first to be disseminated in any numbers.


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Aleisterion
(@aleisterion)
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14/05/2010 3:08 am  

Ester wrote: "You are talking here not just about Aiwass but also about an old and rusty problem with predestination vs. free will...If i had to say something about Aiwasses foreseeing the future, i would say that he sees the things that are most likely coming."

I'm not saying that our choices are fixed, merely that they are determined by so many factors that a mind on the level of Aiwass is allegedly capable of discerning. The prophetical verses in the book certainly do not seem as if they may hint at events that may occur, for they state rather emphatically that they shall.


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einDoppelganger
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14/05/2010 6:59 am  

In all honesty, I am not a fan of the Centennial Edition. I find the cover design tacky and the type design awkward. This is a matter of aesthetics and entirely subjective, of course. It would be nice to see someone create a version of exceptional quality.

Perhaps Hellfire Club books can create a fine edition without the introduction. I don't own any of their releases but they look gorgeous and lovingly crafted.

All things considered I have a lot of sentimental attachment to the flimsy little copy I got in High School. It was terrible design and binding but it is always what I think of when I picture Liber al.

Personally, I would love one of the Solar Lodge editions. I doubt they were well made but I imagine they are quite rare. I don't think I have seen one of those pop up in a Weiser catalog.

(If anyone has one to part with PM me. Lets talk : )


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 Anonymous
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14/05/2010 8:00 am  
"einDoppelganger" wrote:
In all honesty, I am not a fan of the Centennial Edition. I find the cover design tacky and the type design awkward. This is a matter of aesthetics and entirely subjective, of course.

My view too. I was disappointed when it came out. Sort of reminded me of a bourgeois coffee-table book or something. The aesthetics remind me of Better Homes and Gardens.

My favourite edition is the (alas, reprint) 1938 Crowley-OTO edition. Gorgeous in every way. It would have been preferable (to me) if they just made a deluxe facsimile version of that, properly bound, for the centennial edition, with no extraneous additions.

"einDoppelganger" wrote:
It would be nice to see someone create a version of exceptional quality.

That would be very nice, and I think it would sell like wildfire. The contents deserve it.


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 Anonymous
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14/05/2010 4:42 pm  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I really liked the Neptune Press centenial edition, though still not to the specifications in the verse quoted. The facsimile hand writen part of the OTO centenial edition is the best as it is photographs rather than photostats. It would be good if those images could be released in high deffinition file format, so that anybody could publish the book with the best version of the hand writen version included.
That way a we could see who could produce the best version with a level playing field as it were. I would love to see a hand made paper with red a black ink. I see no reason for not having super deluxe versions, specially for altars. I love to hear if anyone is either thinking of doing one to the highest standards or is even trying to do it right now. Hmm, maybe something to do in a few years time if nobody beats me to it.

Love is the law, love under will.

Alex


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 Anonymous
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14/05/2010 5:03 pm  
"Alex_Bennett" wrote:
I see no reason for not having super deluxe versions, specially for altars.

I think LOTS of people would agree with you there!

I love to hear if anyone is either thinking of doing one to the highest standards or is even trying to do it right now. Hmm, maybe something to do in a few years time if nobody beats me to it.

I typed up my own edition about ten years ago, and, with a bibliophile friend, was thinking about producing a very small edition (both in format and numbers! practically a phylactery!), but all the copyright stuff and the disappointing climate of litigation snuffed out the idea. πŸ˜₯

I think a super-mini "talismanic" edition would be nice too. They used to do this all the time once, you find gorgeous tiny matchbox-sized editions of Browning and Keats. A very miniature edition of AL would be, I think, a very nice thing.


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 Anonymous
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14/05/2010 5:36 pm  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

""Noctifer" wrote:
I typed up my own edition about ten years ago, and, with a bibliophile friend, was thinking about producing a very small edition (both in format and numbers! practically a phylactery!), but all the copyright stuff and the disappointing climate of litigation snuffed out the idea. πŸ˜₯

I could understand if you were trying to misrepresent Liber AL in any way, that there should be some come back. To simply produce another version of the book should these days be not seen as a threat. After all those who have Aleister Crowley’s copyright have sworn to promote Thelema. Beating people up in court for producing deluxe or various editions has to be nothing but entirely counter productive. I really can’t believe we are still having this problem now. Anyway not to many years till the copyright runs out. In the mean time I wouldn’t want to be the person responsible for any form of pulping of copies of Liber AL vel Legis for copyright reasons alone, no way!

Love is the law, love under will.

Alex


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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22/07/2010 5:37 pm  

Dear LAShTALians πŸ™‚
I just read in K.Grant's Magical Revival a bit I had dimly remembered as well as from other sources that the publishing of Liber AL was always followed by a war or destruction of some importance. Crowley seemed to view this as (correct me if I am wrong) some form of justification for the magical providence of the document.
Examples being with rough (from memory) receipt/publishing date and event:
1904 (liber al reciept) Balkan War
1912/13 ('thelema' published) First World War
1925 (Tunis edition) Sino-Japanese War
1937/38 (Equinox ot Gods) Second World War

In Magical Revival if I may quote for basis of my question, Mr Grant states "The Book of the Law was published several times in Crowley's lifetime, and each publication was followed, within a comparatively short time, by international disasters:" then he lists the above, minus dates. He goes on: "It was Crowley's belief that when the Book is finally published in strict accordance with the instructions given by Aiwaz in its third chapter, it will effect the total destruction of civilisation as we know it. So far, the instructions have been imperfectly executed, and the holocaust therefore incomplete."
(thanks to p. 15 of "The Magical Revival" pub. Starfire Ltd. 2010)

So my question is, is this statement still true, or has it finally been published anywhere according to the instructions fully?
I want to know when to expect 'the holocaust' πŸ˜‰
Thanks all
93
as a
PS: what do you all think of this too? Do you believe or agree with it leading to strife?


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 Anonymous
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22/07/2010 5:59 pm  

Crowley himself goes into this in more detail in magick without tears;

http://hermetic.com/crowley/magick-without-tears/mwt_39.html


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spike418
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22/07/2010 6:11 pm  
"christibrany" wrote:
Dear LAShTALians πŸ™‚

as a
PS: what do you all think of this too? Do you believe or agree with it leading to strife?

To be honest and without doing any research, I would guess that wars broke out during most years of the 20th C?


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 Anonymous
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23/07/2010 2:47 am  

Hmmm yes. "War" has been with this particular tribe of monkeys every minute since long before we left the tree-tops, imo.

But we first nailed it on an epic scale in the 20th c.

Imo., it's entirely a product of, comes from, and is directed at, the illusions of our egoes, mostly unconsciously.

"Crowley" wrote:
" But the mind of man is normally so important to him that the sword is actually the largest of his weapons; happy is he who can make the dagger suffice! ... The hilt of the Sword should be made of copper."
and
"Whoso taketh the sword shall perish by the sword," is not a mystical threat, but a mystical promise. It is our own complexity that must be destroyed",
and
"The Sword, necessary as it is to the Beginner, is but a crude weapon. Its function is to keep off the enemy or to force a passage through them -- and though it must be wielded to gain admission to the palace, it cannot be worn at the marriage feast."

Hence the eradication (or submission) of ego through communion with one's Angel, or Silent Self symbolised in the Aeon/Last Judgement card (as described in the same chapter of Magick Pt. II that these quotes come from) being a dominant part of the Next Step required for humanity.

One might hope that with subsequent magically directed publications of this or other books the sham of ego is increasingly recognised for what it is, and the War finally won - this time, for everyone.


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Azidonis
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23/07/2010 4:03 pm  

93,

Praise unto Ra hoor khuit, the god of War and Vengeance.

93 93/93


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christibrany
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24/07/2010 5:29 pm  

so to rephrase my main query does anyone know if Liber AL has ever been published 'to specification' ?
i did search forums for this but couldnt find anyone talking about it. πŸ™‚


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Azidonis
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24/07/2010 5:48 pm  

93,

"christibrany" wrote:
so to rephrase my main query does anyone know if Liber AL has ever been published 'to specification' ?
i did search forums for this but couldnt find anyone talking about it. πŸ™‚

There was a thread about it a few months ago, but I couldn't tell you what it was called. Maybe it'll turn up some time.

93 93/93


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einDoppelganger
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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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25/07/2010 1:25 am  

Thanks for the link, einDoppelganger - I've now merged the two threads.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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 Anonymous
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26/07/2010 6:39 pm  

looking back on the earlier thread and issues of who or what should be in red ink or black, i think it worth mentioning that IIRC from the footnotes in the blue brick that rose kellys inserts to the original manuscript where in red ink. I would love to see a colour scan of the original. does anyone know if the new scan for the 'blue brick' were scanned in colour?


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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26/07/2010 8:58 pm  

And I was also curious, since Grant states in the Magical Revival there has yet to be a version to the guidelines of Crowley and Aiwass, and it was revised in 1991, and still has that statement, which Liber AL book is 'up to snuff' as it were since then, that one can get?
Also, for some reason I was under the idea that the whole book had to be in red and black ink, or was it only the commentary?


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Azidonis
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26/07/2010 10:38 pm  

93,

It also says the paper has to be made by hand... enjoy.

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
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27/07/2010 10:06 am  

Fascinating - is there some circular joke here, where someone asks if Liber AL has been published as directed by Aiwass, and then there's discussion, and then someone explains that, yes, Crowley did this in his Fourth Publication in 1937, and then - completely blind to this, the discussion continues, with bickering of one sort or another over what Paper means, and so on, until the question is rephrased, re-argued and re-answered and so on?

At least 2 spots above make it clear that AC did this, and that it led to the Second World War, and that lead to millions dead, the Atom bombs dropped on civilian populations, the furnaces of Auschwitz, etc, etc.

http://hermetic.com/crowley/magick-with ... wt_39.html

Am I missing something?

a.


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einDoppelganger
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27/07/2010 10:45 am  
"Azwyth" wrote:
Am I missing something?

a.

Azwyth : Scroll up to the post by lashtal and you will see this is the combination of two different threads. It can read rather confusing if you don't know πŸ™‚

Scott


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 Anonymous
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27/07/2010 11:55 am  

Thank you Scott!

Thought I was going mad. Right, merged threads, right, I saw that. Okay.

But still, is Christibrany's question from July 24th new or old? or the further question from Christibrany dated July 26th?

Wait - I take it back, doesn't matter. Just, thanks for clearing that up for me!

a.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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27/07/2010 4:26 pm  

new because I can't find any mention of it being done properly yet.
Correct me if i'm wrong. Because I fail to see how an author like Grant and whose work was edited again this year (2010) still states that it hasn't happened.
So I am looking for verification.
I read the whole thread more than once including the linked one and all i can get it some people say it has (1937 or 38) and others say it hasn't (the paper wasn't hand made and some of the ink was wrong) hence I am still curious in the Now πŸ™‚
bye bye and thanks for the help I do NOT mean to be annoying but it may be too late. The quest for Knowledge continues...


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alysa
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27/07/2010 5:02 pm  

Your not annoying at all you have an interesting question.


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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27/07/2010 5:11 pm  
"christibrany" wrote:
Grant and whose work was edited again this year (2010) still states that it hasn't happened.

'Reprinted', not 're-edited'.

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LAShTAL


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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27/07/2010 5:17 pm  

thanks πŸ™‚ i hope that doesnt invalidate my query. but i appreciate the clarification. i have no wish to mislead! cheers


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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27/07/2010 7:07 pm  

It's a webmaster's job to be pedantic.

πŸ˜‰

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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einDoppelganger
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28/07/2010 2:58 am  

It sounds awkward saying "re-edited" but technically what Chris says is correct. Michael did edit magical Revival with an eye for correcting errata and footnotes. If the book were merely reprinted one could imagine it went out with no consideration for any publications of Liber AL that may have emerged since its original printing date. However since Michael did review the text as an editor we can safely assume there would be an editors footnote to clarify the statement was no longer accurate. At least I assume he did since I seem to reall him mentioning the process on here the past year or so and he was chasing up some footnotes as well IIRC.

Just my 2 cents : )

I still maintain I would love to see it printed by the book (so to speak) and the door is pretty much open to anyone who wants to do just that.
I dont think the copyright holders would object and this thread has already shown there are interested parties πŸ™‚


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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28/07/2010 3:51 am  

thanks eindoppelganger i remember mick telling me they edited it too in places for continuity of the present age but that it was largely the skoob edition in text so both paul and us are right. everyone wins!
and more importantly to the topic i thank you for your clarification that a proper edition hasnt been published. wonder if anyone else has any thoughts πŸ™‚


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