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The HGA of a Duck
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11/03/2020 7:30 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

we'll need a new thread

OK, here it is. Another thread went a bit off-topic so I'll start a new one and import the relevant quotes here:

 

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

helluvalotta sexism going on hyere!

Posted by: @shiva

Crowley sez no woman can be a magus 'cause she don't have the required member. So there's no sexy-ism involved. It's strictly a matter for the good ol' boys club.

The validity of Crowley's insight is debatable, but we'll need a new thread and a (any) woman who wishes to dispute his masculine approach to solve all problems.

Posted by:@shiva

It's strictly a matter for the good ol' boys club.

Posted by: @duck

Yes, a new thread might be appropriate, I'll just give my quick take on it here. I think this might have something to do with the fact that there are more males with autistic characteristics than females. To become a "Magus" might mean you have to be just the right kind of autistic "nerd", and I guess there are fewer (but not zero) women like this. The other side of this is that women tend to make better "witches" and there are fewer men who are "witchy". A "Magus" is no better or worse than a "Witch", they both have their strengths.

Posted by:@duck

Yes, a new thread might be appropriate, I'll just give my quick take on it here. I think this might have something to do with the fact that there are more males with autistic characteristics than females.

Posted by: @shiva

No. There is no difference. Male and female, and even cross-gender and bi-gender and eunuchs and barren-wombs are each and all just a point (asexual). In the new thread, started by SWIM (someone who isn't me), I will take the position that anyone can attain to any level of consciousness ... assuming they are human and have a functional cortes and pineal.

Posted by: @shiva

I will take the position that anyone can attain to any level of consciousness

Posted by: @duck

That's kind of what I was getting at. The "level of consciousness" might be the same but the pathway to it (magus or witch) can be different.

 

*End of Quotes*

 

I think I explained my "take" on this matter and said as much as I can say, though I can still clear up any misunderstandings. What I mean is that its just a fact of life that there seem to be more "nerdy" men who are obsessive about all the technical details of some "nerdy" topic than there are women like this. I'm not saying its better or worse to be (or not be) like this (or not). I consider myself as one of these nerd-men who can get obsessive about all the technical details, and I consider some aspects of Thelema and Esoteric subjects in general to be "nerdy", and I'd say the nerdy approach is not the only approach to "spiritual development" though seems to be part of mine.

 

Posted by: @djedi

There was a thread, maybe just slightly before your time, where I insinuated AC was on the autism spectrum. That would be a much more entertaining thread to make than anything about gender or sex.

This thread can be for both autism and gender/sex as there seems to be some overlap like I mentioned. Whatever you think is more interesting/entertaining.


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RuneLogIX
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11/03/2020 9:17 pm  
Posted by: @duck

The other side of this is that women tend to make better "witches" and there are fewer men who are "witchy".

These labels are just a bunch of post modern nonsense. Also I have yet to see "witchcraft" let alone wiccans do anything beyond love, cat, and plant spells. There is basically no Path that is beyond recursive iteration's of emotional desires. Without a tree of life to climb/build/wreck/whatever, what is the point of witchcraft? Excluding Cultus Sabbati which are clearly not typical examples of witchcraft and is neither traditional or mainstream. 

WRT AC's comment, he was speaking about women in his day and age. And he knew the best G.D. adepts of his era (probably Florence Farr but don't quote me). However I am reminded of a rather stupid thing I read about Carlos Castaneda's follower that his philosophy was that men's erotic parts point up towards the sky and women's downwards towards earth hence the direction of each sex part's were totally different. I just can't even fathom that.

But ultimately, who cares? Are you in the business of ensuring other men or woman fulfill their true will? If not you should be minding your own hmm?

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


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ignant666
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11/03/2020 10:00 pm  
Posted by: @runelogix

These labels are just a bunch of post modern nonsense.

Your muddled and sloppy thinking continues to impress.

"Witch", and "Magus" are most certainly not "post-modern" anything.

They are pre-modern. The term "post-modern" is used by literate people to mean a specific thing. It is not just a general term of abuse for anything you don't like, or that offends your rather fragile Fox-tuned sensibilities.

Incidentally, "post-modernism" has nothing much to do with such modernist movements as feminism.

Posted by: @runelogix

Are you in the business of ensuring other men or woman fulfill their true will? If not you should be minding your own hmm?

So i guess this "just mind your own will/business" thing you that you (think you) advocate doesn't apply to you then, as you feel free to tell others what they should do, and think about?

One of these "do as i say, not as i do" things, perhaps?


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Shiva
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11/03/2020 10:52 pm  
Posted by: @duck

Another thread went a bit off-topic so I'll start a new one

If you keep doing this, there will be hopes of more order, and you will be recognized as Vishnu the Preserver, who keeps things moving.

Good Luck.

Posted by: @runelogix

These labels are just a bunch of post modern nonsense.

I do not know when post-mod was, its timespan in e.v.s, or even what it represents or implies. I thought the eternal now was surrounded by the generic term, modern ... so post-modern would be tomorrow or thereafter. I do know that "post-modern" is a specified era with qualities I do not understand, but I may have lived through it. So, for the sake of my disabilities, I will remove said epoch-designation and agrre that ...

These labels are just a bunch of nonsense.

Especially in the current (modern?) context, where apples are compared to oranges.

Posted by: @runelogix

There is basically no Path that is beyond recursive iteration's of emotional desires.

There's some big words here. Maybe beyond my pay grade and scope of practice. If I translate the theorem down to primal lingo, it seems to imply that
"emotional desire" is driving or propelling one on the Path,
and nobody ever gets beyond that.

Please let me know if I got that right, or am bent autistic missing something. I don't wish to comment 'til I get the concepts straight and understood in the proper context.

 


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dom
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11/03/2020 11:10 pm  

@duck

Crowley as autistic, really?  Sounded like an extrovert to me.   When people say 'autism' I'm thinking Hoffman in the movie Rainman.   The other Magi?  Difficult to gather evidence that determines if they were autistic or not.

 

Some say Nema (female) is the Magus of the Aeon of Maat ie thus far it's been a boys-club since The White Goddess cults.   

 

I know at least three autistic women. 

 

Look harder maybe. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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djedi
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11/03/2020 11:17 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

I do not know when post-mod was

If RuneLogiX was referring to the philosophy of postmodernism, and not the word as a designator for art styles or whatever, then I'll engage in some comparative philosophy and posit that 'postmodernism' is just an aborted kind of shaktism -- lacking in the primordial symbolism which man was once-upon-a-time capable of grasping more easily than the self-involved palaver which defines modern metaphysics. Some of Tim Leary's and (more importantly to us) Robert Anton Wilson's ideas flirted with it.

Posted by: @runelogix

Also I have yet to see "witchcraft" let alone wiccans do anything beyond love, cat, and plant spells.

I must agree with the tone underlying your assessment. Witches and wiccans are plastic people.


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Shiva
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12/03/2020 12:11 am  
Posted by: @dom

autistic

"a developmental disorder of variable severity that is characterized by difficulty in social interaction and communication and by restricted or repetitive patterns of thought and behavior"

Oh. Crowley was not autistic. Yes a case might be made for "mild autism," but I want to see hard evidence for a medical diagnosis that is real and not "iffy"or "circumstantial." This case will have to be taken to the Supreme Court Ignant.


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The HGA of a Duck
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12/03/2020 1:20 am  
Posted by: @dom

When people say 'autism' I'm thinking Hoffman in the movie Rainman

More "the autistic spectrum", such as Asperger's syndrome. Not saying there are no autistic women, it just seems to be the case that there's fewer of them. Or another way to describe it: just about all the people I've met with the ability to bore you to death with boring technical details on nerdy topics have been male.

Maybe Nema was on the spectrum too. The whole concept of "Aeons" and that one has to be ruled by a particular deity and that one must follow the next seems quite "rigid" and "nerdy" to me. Maybe it would be a lot easier if we could be free of this whole concept altogether.

Posted by: @shiva

difficulty in social interaction and communication and by restricted or repetitive patterns of thought and behavior

Yeah, this sort of describes me, though I was never diagnosed with anything. Maybe if I had been it would have explained a lot and I might have had a more normal life (but somehow I now find myself on this forum 😉 ).

Posted by: @shiva

Crowley was not autistic. Yes a case might be made for "mild autism,"

This is more likely (on the autistic spectrum). Even if autism isn't the right diagnosis for him, you could never call him "normal", and whatever made him the way he was could be described as a "developmental disorder" by psychology-enthusiasts.


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Shiva
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12/03/2020 2:48 am  
Posted by: @duck

Maybe it would be a lot easier if we could be free of this whole concept altogether.

Right. A will see you and raise the pot to ...

It is a lot easier if we are free of all concepts.

Posted by: @duck

but somehow I now find myself on this forum

You have been "committed." They give you drugs to not remember the court procedures or the ride here. You just wake up, and this is where you find yourself.

Posted by: @duck

you could never call him "normal"

He has been called "criminally psychopathic," or some psycho-dx similar to that descipacability. In RTC's works, I think. I cannot make a proper diagnosis unless I see the patient and give him tests. Lots of tests. Have him call for an appointment.

 


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Jamie J Barter
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12/03/2020 2:56 am  
Posted by: @dom

Some say Nema (female) is the Magus of the Aeon of Maat

In view of comments made in the "other thread" [q.v.], it wouldn't appear that Shiva would (in view of the fact Nema didn't have a schlong more than anything else)?

Posted by: @duck

[Y]ou could never call him [A.C.] "normal", and whatever made him the way he was …

Blowing himself up with a home-made firework? (= a "surefire" consciousness/brainstate alterer although tricky recipe for every/any body else to duplicate precisely/effectively)

Posted by: @shiva

They give you drugs to not remember the court procedures or the ride here. You just wake up, and this is where you find yourself.

You can, of course, check out (but, you may never leave).  Mwahahaha...

Post-postmodernly yours

Norma N Joy Conquest


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Shiva
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12/03/2020 3:10 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

In view of comments made in the "other thread" [q.v.], it wouldn't appear that Shiva would (in view of the fact Nema didn't have a schlong more than anything else)?

No, no. Neti non carborundum. That was not my "comment," it was me pretending to be quoting Crowley. I will accept any gender who can expound it. "It," you know, the puzzle-cipher-jingle-puzzle. Plus I'll need to see some "holy fire." That's all.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Blowing himself up with a home-made firework? (= a "surefire" consciousness/brainstate alterer although tricky recipe for every/any body else to duplicate precisely/effectively)

I blew up a small pile of detonating powder at age 20. I affected my hearing for decades and now I'm about 85% deaf. fratur taurus blew up a much bigger pile of the same stuff. He got burned on his arms and face fairly badly. Do either of these count toward precision and/or effectiveness?

 


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Jamie J Barter
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12/03/2020 3:19 am  
Posted by: @shiva

That was not my "comment," it was me pretending to be quoting Crowley.

I stand/sit down at my settee corrected.

(I wonder if he would have had anything to say about any "gender modification" isshoos on the subject…)

Posted by: @shiva

Do either of these count toward precision and/or effectiveness?

No - and,um,or, no!

Netty netishly yours

N Joy


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Shiva
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12/03/2020 9:05 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

No - and,um,or, no!

Good. I wouldn't our sterling demeanors tarnished by rumors of "autism caused by solid rocket fuel detonation. Poor things, their brains must be scrambled."


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The HGA of a Duck
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13/03/2020 2:27 am  
Posted by: @runelogix

But ultimately, who cares? Are you in the business of ensuring other men or woman fulfill their true will? If not you should be minding your own hmm?

Yeah, this topic is not something that normally interests me (its not "nerdy" enough), it just happened to come up and I thought I'd give my "autism" angle. Shiva sounded like he wanted to make some important post and as he seems to have taken vows against starting threads, I started one instead. 🙂

I can't say I'm in the business of ensuring others fulfill their true will, minding one's own business may be the only way to do so. 😉 


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Shiva
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13/03/2020 6:04 am  
Posted by: @duck

Shiva sounded like he wanted to make some important post and as he seems to have taken vows against starting threads

How dare you? I have never made an important post in my life.

Also, no vows. The correct fraze should be, "Shiva (very) rarely starts threads."

 


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Tiger
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13/03/2020 12:03 pm  

Men are mechanistic Nerds.
Women are Witches
that naturally have the strength and power to gestate nourish and give birth to something other.
The Magus enters the hidden realms winged with the action of electricity and magnetism; to approach the beginnings of form, the world of appearances, with the light of the Khabs.


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ignant666
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13/03/2020 2:36 pm  

I think this one of the few questions where i will take the "Aiwass said it, i believe it, that settles it" approach:

Every man and every woman is a star.

Crowley was obsessed with penises, and with semen. Do we have to be to attain?


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Michael Staley
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13/03/2020 3:30 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

Crowley was obsessed with penises, and with semen. Do we have to be to attain?

Doubtless a rhetorical question, but I will reply, because I'm like that.

For thousands of years, across a variety of cultures, using myriad approaches, people have attained without having heard of the need to press their blood into the Cup of Babalon, contact their Holy Guardian Angel, practise sex magick, etc. Crowley forged his own path, taking influences from a variety of sources and transmuting it via his mystical and magical experience; in my view we also forge our own paths from a diversity of influences and sources, whether we are aware of it or not. So no, there is no need to be obsessed with the same things that Crowley was; it's our choice.


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wellreadwellbred
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13/03/2020 5:13 pm  

ignant666: "Crowley was obsessed with penises, and with semen. Do we have to be to attain?"

The gender fluidity about to be let loose after the release of RTC's Horus-toy (™),  implies a resounding NO!, as the answer to said question. 


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The HGA of a Duck
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13/03/2020 5:15 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

How dare you?

😛

Posted by: @shiva

In the new thread, started by SWIM (someone who isn't me), I will take the position that anyone can attain to any level of consciousness

OK, so maybe I misunderstood but perhaps this position you have taken will lead to this "important" post I imagined.


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thelemis
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17/03/2020 6:19 pm  

Crowley sez no woman can be a magus 'cause she don't have the required member.

I have met a magus recently, amazing experience I do not think that a woman could be so high enlightened and also contain so strongly at the forefront, those unique qualities of a magus .. not testosterone but a unique element within that is fast, spontaneous, cold, hot, mercurial, mad, angry, pretend compassion, devious, deceptive, knowing, magick for personal gain or for own ends, uses his madness to create confusion and control people around, moonwalking bear, in control of his universe, not quite our universe, but he plays here with no conscience.

wheras a woman.. oh look at the butterfly... is usually calmer, deeper, receptive intuitive,  thinks before acts, empathic which denotes conscience.

So there's no sexy-ism involved. It's strictly a matter for the good ol' boys club.

That thought is what holds MANkind back, Each compliments the other, man can't have the secret because WOMan is the secret.

Do men feel the energy as we do. I saw a good friend today for the first time in six months, we keep up on social media, she is a wiccan witch, always telling me to sage my home and do some spells to get what I want.. bit like thelemic rituals.. to the point during our conversation I asked her what she had planned for the equinox, as i said it I drifted back to last years march equinox and the energy around me especially as I watched the sun rise as the moon set.

she asked what it was and meant and as I told her that its an energy point as the turn of the wheel, the equal point and she replied I feel it, I feel it all. As I have been. Do men?

The validity of Crowley's insight is debatable,

I have seen and shown pictorially that Crowley is praeter human being. Ingenius. God aspect, releasing the book of thoth in 1948 -but only Partially, the perfection of the knowledge contained within the HorVer Flip. the book of thoth folded but opened.

but we'll need a new thread and a (any) woman who wishes to dispute his masculine approach to solve all problems.

Crowley demands a rigid disipline .. in a language to harsh for the average woman. Not due to predisposition but due to environmental impact. Since the "death of Pan" (ie: mother) and the rise of Christianity woman's gifts have taken a back seat, although utilized and used by males throughout time and a much needed part of life, the way of woman is treated as second rate. Alice Cooper summed it up in "only women bleed"

Autism? A genetic difference, a disability, or a different race/species ??

you rang? well my bell tinkled .. as a woman and an autistic one to boot.

I think with 51 percent left and 49 percent right.. or maybe it's the other way around,,,,,, having said that I caught tadpoles and climbed mountains exploring, building lego as a kid while most other girls played barbies..

I can be girly soft loving but I can be a no fear confrontation. I don't think of myself in a gender sense although if I did I am WOMAN.

Aleister spoke to me, the first time I picked up TBOTL, he spoke of the pearl in the oyster, He spoke of Babalon, He had many ladies as his scarlet woman" he wrote "Margaret"- His best work I do say..

that in themselves proves unequivocally proves that Crowley is in no way a "masculine approach" or a "good old boys club" I also shows I believe the master GOD touch in his work, that he could create the word and have it deciphered precisely for each unique mind. Each sees what they are supposed to see ones who show fear are shown fear, ones who are curious are enticed, ones who are searching find...and the ones who are will be

on the human level I have been shown things in the last six months that brings this to the crux of today. Man's treatment of woman. It is my call at this point in time to say, man owns woman.

Crowley never did, he bought to Thelema the fact that a woman is a star, she shines. She is.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Shiva
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18/03/2020 1:22 am  
Posted by: @thelemis

an energy point as the turn of the wheel, the equal point and she replied I feel it, I feel it all. As I have been. Do men?

You are describing the rotary motion of the third ray, which has a strong feminine component. I have spent the past 14 years teaching what you describe, which is one of the Aikido principles, to groups of students, which are composed mostly of women. I am a men. You may call me Amen.

There are a lot of differences between men and woman in the physical realm. In the lower astral-mental zone, it can be like cats and dogs. On the causal plane, men and women are attracted by a common goal, cause, belief, frequency, etc. Differences may pop up, and do, but overall the union works.

Any Adeptus who has earned his dialog, is able to shift into a feminine, receptive, passive mode, and any Magister, even of male birth, is exercising his female side via intuition. No difference in sex is required at The Binah Hotel.

Posted by: @thelemis

Crowley demands a rigid discipline .. in a language to harsh for the average woman.

I agree. Why, I have even typed it out somewhere around the LAShTAL Monastery. Probably by now down in the qliphotic caverns underground, along with the deleted accounts of those who have fallen. I agree, because I, Amen, have interviewed many womans, and noted their reactions. AC did not establish a bhakti-yoga curriculum for faire damsels. It's that Templar, military spirit that raises the yang in yang-inclined young men.

They will get the yang kicked out of them, at least the first unloading, at Netzach, when they face Venus, the face of their feminine nature.

Posted by: @thelemis

I don't think of myself in a gender sense although if I did I am WOMAN.

This is an auspicious omen. There are certain "higher" states wherein one consciously turns into the opposite sex (with a certain ecstatic wonderment), and others where one is hermaphrodized into something like the Baphomet image, and there anyone in sight is overshadowed (or obsessed by) a sylph or a pard (and again, the ecstatic clarity, easily identified as release from the strain of being only one of two. Atma is asexual.

 


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