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dom
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Have you noticed that certain lines in Liber Legis address men only?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Posted by: @dom

certain lines [...] address men only

 

You mean there are parts of AC's work that this is not true of?

Other than "Every man and every woman...", every word he ever wrote assumes women are useful as sperm receptacles, and household servants, but have no minds.


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Shiva
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It is traditional for God to speak through his vehicles in the masculine sense. Even Alice Bailey got caught up in the Osirian masculine form of address.


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dom
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Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @dom

certain lines [...] address men only

 

You mean there are parts of AC's work that this is not true of?

Other than "Every man and every woman...", every word he ever wrote assumes women are useful as sperm receptacles, and household servants, but have no minds.

That's actually BS, maybe check out the commentary to AL and read The Confessions where he has a lot to day about men being the idiots in partnerships.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Find me some AC quotes about women's intellects, and i will retract my statement.

Depicting men being idiots over women, or being manipulated by them, does not imply that the author thinks those women have any brains.


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wellreadwellbred
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ignant666: "Find me some AC quotes about women's intellects, and i will retract my statement."

 

"Her name was Roddie Minor, a married woman living apart from her husband, a near artist of German extraction. She was physically a magnificent animal, with a man's brain well stocked with general knowledge and a special comprehension of chemistry and pharmacy. She was at this time employed in the pathological laboratory of a famous doctor, but afterwards became managing chemist to a prominent firm of perfumery manufactures.

I have said that she had a man's brain, but despite every effort, there was still one dark corner in which her femininity had taken refuge and defied her to expel it. From time to time the garrison made a desperate sortie. At such moments her womanhood avenged itself savagely on her ambition. She was more frantically feminine than any avowed woman could possibly be. She was ruthlessly irrational. Such attacks were fortunately as short as they were severe, but unfortunately too often did irreparable damage.

In the upshot, this characteristic led to our separation. I treated her as an equal in all respects, and for some months everything went as smoothly as if she had been really a man. But that beleaguered section of her brain sent out spies under cover of night, and whispered to the besiegers sinister suggestions, to shake their confidence in themselves. The idea was born and grew that she was essentially my inferior. She began to feel my personality as an obsession. She began to dread being dominated, though perfectly well aware that I wished nothing less, that her freedom was necessary to my enjoyment of my own. But she failed to rid herself of this hallucination, and when I decided to make a Great Magical Retirement on the Hudson, in a canoe, in the summer of 1918, we agreed to part. There was no quarrel. Our friendship and even our intimacy continued. My last night in New York before leaving for Europe was spent in here arms."

( Source: The Confessions of Aleister Crowley, Chapter 78 - - -  https://hermetic.com/crowley/confessions/chapter78  ) 


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christibrany
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

with a man's brain

It's a back handed compliment.  

 

I wish people wrote as well as that though, these days.  If you do, people call you pretentious. 


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dom
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Posted by: @ignant666

Find me some AC quotes about women's intellects, and i will retract my statement.

Depicting men being idiots over women, or being manipulated by them, does not imply that the author thinks those women have any brains.

Why are we talking about AC quotes?   AC didn't write Liber Legis, he received it.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Posted by: @dom

AC didn't write Liber Legis, he received it.  

Aha.

Purely a coincidence that what he "received" was so very very attuned with all his interests, desires, sexual fantasies, and also his writings for years before about starting a new solar-phallic religion with Horus as one its gods (see all of wrwb's posts on this last point), then.

Yes i am aware of his deeply disingenuous claim that Liber L, as it was called when he said that, repelled his Buddhist self.

To save time, yes, i agree he never wrote anything else like it.

And in the simplest sense of the word "wrote", yes he did "write" AL, even according to the "reception" fable- he took down the dictation (that Rose could also hear, somehow) with pen in hand.


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dom
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Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @dom

AC didn't write Liber Legis, he received it.  

Aha.

Purely a coincidence that what he "received" was so very very attuned with all his interests, desires, sexual fantasies, and also his writings for years before about starting a new solar-phallic religion with Horus as one its gods (see all of wrwb's posts on this last point), then.

 

Is it?  As Shiva said referring to God and humans in the masculine derivative is traditional.  Is it a big deal and have you found any sexism in Liber Legis?  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Posted by: @dom

have you found any sexism in Liber Legis

OK, now you are just having a laugh, son. Please.

Count uses of "King", then count uses of "Queen". Or "he" and "she". "Lord" and "lady". "Men" and "women".

Review III:43-45. And 55-56.

And of course there is the fact that, as you point out in OP, "certain lines in Liber Legis address men only" [those lines are I:1-III:75]. The only lines directed at women order them to get hoin', and gratify men's desires.


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dom
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Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @dom

have you found any sexism in Liber Legis

OK, now you are just having a laugh, son. Please.

Count uses of "King", then count uses of "Queen". Or "he" and "she". "Lord" and "lady". "Men" and "women".

Review III:43-45. And 55-56.

And of course there is the fact that, as you point out in OP, "certain lines in Liber Legis address men only" [those lines are I:1-III:75]. The only lines directed at women order them to get hoin', and gratify men's desires.

Maybe the only way to make (1904) society come more in alignment with RHK was to address and challenge the leaders and not the slaves. 

 

By the way; Let the woman be girt with a sword before me.’  3:2

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Posted by: @dom

 Let the woman be girt with a sword before me.’  3:2

Was hoping you'd forget that one, but it is one of few exceptions to my [exaggerated but mostly true] point.


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Tiger
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Ah so that's gotta be it.
A part of the urchin was on to something;
got used;
and messages
being
gotten out.


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dom
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Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @dom

 Let the woman be girt with a sword before me.’  3:2

Was hoping you'd forget that one, but it is one of few exceptions to my [exaggerated but mostly true] point.

1:41 to 1:42 "Bind nothing.." etc is directed at everyone but specifically women who were traditionally bound to men in bad or abusive relationships.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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dom
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I was curious about the term "adulterous" and it's root.  Does it really mean actual sexual infidelity?

Check this out and the bit where it outlines the origins of the term;

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/adulterous#:~:text=Adulterous%20is%20used%20to%20describe,be%20married%20to%20someone%20else).

 

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @dom

I was curious about the term "adulterous" ...

"Adult" meant to dilute. As in adulterating a liquid by adding some thing new to the broth.

Note: "Broth" is the root of brothel.

It all comes down to polygamy, which has nothing (or not much) to do with pygmies, so no jokes about little people, okay?

 


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ignant666
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Posted by: @shiva

Note: "Broth" is the root of brothel.

No, it isn't:

https://www.etymonline.com/word/brothel

https://www.etymonline.com/word/broth


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dom
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Here the term 'men' is associated with the term 'fools';

I.11. These are fools that men adore; both their Gods & their men are fools.

 

I.31. For these fools of men and their woes care not thou at all! They feel little; what is, is balanced by weak joys; but ye are my chosen ones.

 

Whereas the men and women of Thelema are referred to as 'children'' or as 'the chosen' or elsewhere as 'Kings'.

 

I.12. Come forth, o children, under the stars, & take your fill of love!

 

I.15. Now ye shall know that the chosen priest & apostle of infinite space is the prince-priest the Beast; and in his woman called the Scarlet Woman is all power given. They shall gather my children into their fold: they shall bring the glory of the stars into the hearts of men.

 

II.25. Ye are against the people, O my chosen!

The elevation of woman as follows; 

 

I.41. The word of Sin is Restriction. O man! refuse not thy wife, if she will! O lover, if thou wilt, depart! There is no bond that can unite the divided but love: all else is a curse. Accursed! Accursed be it to the aeons! Hell.

Laws against adultery are based upon the idea that woman is a chattel, so that to make love to a married woman is to deprive the husband of her services. It is the frankest and most crass statement of a slave-situation. To us, every woman is a star. She has therefore an absolute right to travel in her own orbit. There is no reason why she should not be the ideal hausfrau, if that chance to be her will. But society has no right to insist upon that standard. It was, for practical reasons, almost necessary to set up such taboos in small communities, savage tribes, where the wife was nothing but a general servant, where the safety of the people depended upon a high birth-rate. But to-day woman is economically independent, becomes more so every year. The result is that she instantly asserts her right to have as many or as few men or babies as she wants or can get; and she defies the world to interfere with her. More power to her – elbow!

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

No, it isn't:

Sure it is. I just made it up.

 


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ignant666
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Well, so i figured, just clearing that up for the young people.

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

just clearing that up

Well, somebody needs to clear it up. I think I should give some secret or overt sign or symbol when I make things up, but I don't like to use emoticons 😢 😢 

 


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @ignant666

Posted by: @dom

 Let the woman be girt with a sword before me.’  3:2

Was hoping you'd forget that one, but it is one of few exceptions to my [exaggerated but mostly true] point.

It could always be argued that "Let" and "be" suggests that she ain't (girt) yet.

Also it's not 3:2. (It's 3:11).

Norma N Joy Conquest


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dom
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Posted by: @ignant666

Posted by: @dom

 Let the woman be girt with a sword before me.’  3:2

Was hoping you'd forget that one, but it is one of few exceptions to my [exaggerated but mostly true] point.

It could always be argued that "Let" and "be" suggests that she ain't (girt) yet.

 

????

No argument needed.  How else could it be read other than that?

Why would someone direct someone to be girt with something if they're already girt?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @dom

Why would someone direct someone to be girt with something if they're already girt?

"Let" also may be considered in the context of "allow," as if permission needs to be granted.

 


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Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @shiva

@dom: "Why would someone direct someone to be girt with something if they're already girt?"

---"Let" also may be considered in the context of "allow," as if permission needs to be granted.

Thank you Shiva, blow me down with a feather: you took the words right out of my mouth (as a MartianMaatian might say...)

Posted by: @dom

????

!!!!

Posted by: @dom

 How else could it be read other than that?

See above for your elucidation, along with my mellifluous remark earlier that the woman "ain't girt yet"

N Joy


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dom
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

See above for your elucidation, along with my mellifluous remark earlier that the woman "ain't girt yet"

N Joy

I agree.  How do you distinguish a 'girt sword' from petty man-hating and overgeneralizations made about the male species?   

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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