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Aleisterion
(@aleisterion)
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Camlion wrote: "I think it is rather silly that you continue referencing Crowley's life as if we should all follow his example to the letter without question. Didn't he teach us better than that?"

Yes I must've failed Crowley class huh... 😆


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gurugeorge
(@gurugeorge)
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My 2c is that politics is important to Thelema, politics have always been intertwined with religion, and mysticism has always been intertwined with a somewhat "underground" political consciousness - somewhat against the mainstream, not necessarily in total opposition, but in some kind of synergy.

Erwin, who used to frequent these boards used to say that there is no such thing as Thelemic politics. In the sense that there will never be such a thing as a "thelemic political party" (Apo Pantos Kakodaimonos!), that's true. But in a sense, the quest for freedom in politics is and always has been in the same direction as Thelema - one might say that liberalism (not necesarily US style "liberalism", which is really more like socialism, but good, old fashioned "live and let live" liberalism) in politics is the Thelemic element in politics.

That is to say, there's lots of room for healthy disagreement between rational people about what should or shouldn't be done about this or that; but so long as it's done with a background sense of classical liberalism, a background sense that "freedom is the mother, not the daughter, of social order", then it doesn't really matter whether you're "conservative", "liberal", "socialist", "capitalist" or whatever, the politics, the to-and-fro between ideas, will be essentially Thelemic.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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"gurugeorge" wrote:
Erwin, who used to frequent these boards used to say that there is no such thing as Thelemic politics. In the sense that there will never be such a thing as a "thelemic political party" (Apo Pantos Kakodaimonos!), that's true.

Nice post, gurugeorge, but with the lack of choice offered by the two-party system locked in to the USA, I wouldn't preclude any possible solutions or alternatives.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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"Patriarch156" wrote:
"Camlion" wrote:
Yes, that is why I used the word "mechanism" rather than 'philosophy' or other similar vague terminology. This is intended to be a very practical, rather than theoretical, reference to 'universal brotherhood,' as I understand it. 🙂

Personally I feel that it is an unrealistic idea except to unite the few and secret perhaps, those that have affinity towards that sort of thinking of man and his religion.

Because on the face of it, though of course A.C. thought it was the literal truth and as such beyond doubt for any thinking rational man, it is like Christians talking about the universal brotherhood of man open to all who partake in the Body of Christ as the True Church.

But then I think any notion of a true universal brotherhood is a bit unrealistic, as true brotherhood arises from having, partaking in and working towards commonalities and I fear the commonality Crowley advanced in that particular secret does not have the power to unite anyone but the very few, particularly since despite Crowley declaring it beyond doubt, it has been disproved by comparative religion.

93 Patriarch156,

Obviously, Crowley was relying upon the idea that a 'True Eucharist' would succeed where an imaginary or otherwise empty one would fail. 🙂

Regardless, for the most practical and immediate of purposes, I think that if each individual can know and do their true Will, true Universal Brotherhood will take care of itself.


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faustian
(@faustian)
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The funny thing about this discussion is that Aleister Crowley – despite his sexual eccentricities and recreational drug use – considered himself to be politically conservative (a Tory I believe). He was also dead set against the practice of abortion; a subject on which he was very vocal.

I wonder how he would lean today – Obama or McCain? Was he an old style limited government Republican, or more of the liberal Democrat? Clearly Crowley hated the very idea of the welfare state and the subsequent psychic enslavement it imposed on the people it purported to help.

I can’t help but think that he would lean towards Obama – for no other reason than his looks


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alysa
(@alysa)
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Posts: 655
 

Crowley to my opinion was bot Tory-minded and also conservative in the American way, he certainly was himself very much against the idea of abortion. Don't know anything about the ideas of Mr.Obama in respect to abortion, I mean his real ideas. I think nowadays Crowley should be having both a problem with Obama as well as with Mc.Cain. I think Crowley nowadays should annoy himself with the way the Republicans are trying to solve or not to solve the now ongoing economic crisis of the world.


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kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
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Camlion-

Whereas we are mostly in agreement that

if each individual can know and do their true Will, true Universal Brotherhood will take care of itself.

I think its worth considering for a moment the notion that

the idea that a 'True Eucharist' would succeed where an imaginary or otherwise empty one would fail.

O.T.O. seems to be the primary political vehicle of Crowleyan Thelema, with its long term visions and goals of societal reform. It was envisioned as such by Crowley when alive and the Body commonly referred to as the "Caliphate" seems to most ardently hold to these ideals of establishing a new form of Government on the planet. This is not to imply that OTO, Inc, being a "political vehicle," functions SOLEY on those grounds, nor is it to insinuate any present party sympathies within that body. I'm simply recognizing that OTO, Inc. is both a governmental body and one which carries the vision and agenda of establishing a Thelemic Government on a large scale.

The Gnostic Mass is the primary ritual of this organization and therein we presumably find our

'True Eucharist'

Would it be a fair statement to say that the celebration of such is of political import to the extent that it recognizes an unrepressed Will (which is motivated by subconscious and sexual forces) and therefore the means of developing

true Universal Brotherhood

based on that Will (exerting the same widespread influence on the psychology of the "mass mind" as the Catholic Liturgy, "mortifying the flesh," has in the last 2000 years?)

We certainly could, as suggested above, read the Manifesto Lingo re: Universal Brotherhood as pertaining to mystic realizations but that would seem more in accord with AA ideas. I believe Patriarch, above, indicated that the "goal" was something with definite connotations in the realm of human society and government, whether tenable or not. As those same documents DO refer to a "Secret" held by the Order (and one which has yet to produce the "Perfect Government" but purports to possess this power), I think it might be worthwhile to consider HOW Crowley envisioned this "Secret" in relation to resolving the miasma of present politcal problems.

Do members here see it as Neo-Rosicrucian pipe dream or something as relevant to our present affairs as Crowley had felt during his own day?


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OKontrair
(@okontrair)
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I disagree with everyone.

Crowley would have no vote in the US and I can find no indication that he used his vote in Britain. I get the impression though that Americans vote for their politicians whereas the British tend to vote against whoever seems to them currently least awful. The trouble with democracy is that they only give you one brick but there is more than one window.

Rwanda and Cambodia were not anarchies but tyrannies. There are several examples of successful non government. During the Chinese civil war (192something - 1949) there were huge areas of no interest to either side where life went along just fine, including education by unpaid (but fed) volunteers. In present day China there is a Standing Committee for the Abolition of Senseless restrictions.

There must be a thousand better ways of doing things than the few we use. The Theban law-maker Solon had some good ideas as well as a sense of humour. Hamurabi decreed that liars be thrown into the Tigris. America is probably the state that most disapproves of communism but loves its fire brigade - but fire brigades wherever they occur are essentially collectivist. It is entirely possible for a population to jointly hire managers for big projects.

As for 'the economy' - it's just a phantasm. Governments ask the public to 'make sacrifices' for the good of the economy! That being the case 'the economy' is your enemy. Why not let inflation rip roar away for a few years and it will clear your debts!

Stuart X (Prophet in His Own Country) has some good stuff to say which is still relevant. As for Zuangzi - my favourite quote by him is "I wish I had a beak three feet long".

We will only ever get a choice between a maniac or a lunatic. My advice - give the lunatic a chance and hope he/she is negligent.

Was someone further up the page fishing about for some sort of 'what should a Thelemite do' advice? Block vote eh? There's progress. Either What Thou Wilt or use a pin.

OK


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priestofal
(@priestofal)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 147
 

And now for a slight (and tenuously relevant -- Sorry, Paul!) musical break to our regularly scheduled Thelemic 'No Politics' forum.

(Sung to the tune of "It's My Party").

Only I'd know where this thingy has gone
If done by my own hand
Why should I care who would care
When it's God who'll understand

It's my body I'll abort if I want to
'Bort if I want to, 'bort if I want to
You just might too if it happened to you

I loved that man, who put me in a whirl
And promised he'd always love
But now that he's torn my heart
Maybe I should look above

It's his baby, to support if I say to
S'port if I say to, s'port if I say to
You might say too if it happened to you

[Lead Break]

The Judge looks down with his almighty frown
And says, "Honey, the facts!
Your "thingy" or it's his too --
In which case, you can ask!"

But it's my thingy and his if I say so
'Bort if I want to, S'port if I say so
You'd be in two if it happened to you!

Please -- excuse me -- really! -- let us resist.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"kidneyhawk" wrote:
Camlion-

Whereas we are mostly in agreement that

if each individual can know and do their true Will, true Universal Brotherhood will take care of itself.

I think its worth considering for a moment the notion that

the idea that a 'True Eucharist' would succeed where an imaginary or otherwise empty one would fail.

O.T.O. seems to be the primary political vehicle of Crowleyan Thelema, with its long term visions and goals of societal reform. It was envisioned as such by Crowley when alive and the Body commonly referred to as the "Caliphate" seems to most ardently hold to these ideals of establishing a new form of Government on the planet. This is not to imply that OTO, Inc, being a "political vehicle," functions SOLEY on those grounds, nor is it to insinuate any present party sympathies within that body. I'm simply recognizing that OTO, Inc. is both a governmental body and one which carries the vision and agenda of establishing a Thelemic Government on a large scale.

The Gnostic Mass is the primary ritual of this organization and therein we presumably find our

'True Eucharist'

Would it be a fair statement to say that the celebration of such is of political import to the extent that it recognizes an unrepressed Will (which is motivated by subconscious and sexual forces) and therefore the means of developing

true Universal Brotherhood

based on that Will (exerting the same widespread influence on the psychology of the "mass mind" as the Catholic Liturgy, "mortifying the flesh," has in the last 2000 years?)

We certainly could, as suggested above, read the Manifesto Lingo re: Universal Brotherhood as pertaining to mystic realizations but that would seem more in accord with AA ideas. I believe Patriarch, above, indicated that the "goal" was something with definite connotations in the realm of human society and government, whether tenable or not. As those same documents DO refer to a "Secret" held by the Order (and one which has yet to produce the "Perfect Government" but purports to possess this power), I think it might be worthwhile to consider HOW Crowley envisioned this "Secret" in relation to resolving the miasma of present politcal problems.

Do members here see it as Neo-Rosicrucian pipe dream or something as relevant to our present affairs as Crowley had felt during his own day?

Good morning, Kyle,

Well, yes, a 'True Eucharist' is employed by (many) Thelemites, within and without OTO, to both know and do individual true Will.

And, it is only in the service of knowing and doing individual true Will that politics finds justification.

So, yes.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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@Camlion:
And, it is only in the service of knowing and doing individual true Will that politics finds justification.

The phrase 'true will' does not occur in the Book, just the commentaries and dogma. I've had a go at searching but that isn't something I can find having been given much discussion here.

Even a society of thelemites would have to manage the division of resources, and set a price for belonging to that society - taxation, civic duties, laws. There's also no danger of that happening any time soon.


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 Anonymous
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"daimonos" wrote:
@Camlion:
And, it is only in the service of knowing and doing individual true Will that politics finds justification.

The phrase 'true will' does not occur in the Book, just the commentaries and dogma. I've had a go at searching but that isn't something I can find having been given much discussion here.

Even a society of thelemites would have to manage the division of resources, and set a price for belonging to that society - taxation, civic duties, laws. There's also no danger of that happening any time soon.

Would "pure will" suit you better?

Personally, I accept commentaries to a great extent, including the use of "true Will." Perhaps you are more of a 'purist.' 🙂

As for societies, I see no need to reinvent the existing wheels, only to modify them to provide a more 'Thelema friendly' environment.


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 Anonymous
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Perhaps you are more of a 'purist.'
[laughter]
...maybe?

Having gone back and _read what you said earlier_, your points about freedom and independence are well made. I don't know how to predict how long the madness of crowds will hold sway in national and global politics to the extent we see today.


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 Anonymous
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"daimonos" wrote:
I don't know how to predict how long the madness of crowds will hold sway in national and global politics to the extent we see today.

Probably for as long as that is tolerated with a shrug by so many apathetic folks who should know better. 😉


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 Anonymous
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Not sure I can be bothered to respond to that :- )


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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This is something i have been considering for a while. I do like a political discussion, and would love to get into politics but there is not a party out there that would follow the thelemic view on the world, through them not wanting to lose control, or because of a likely transition period of much violence.

I believe for a true thelemic political movement, it would have to be at heart an anarchistic movement, violent and noisy so to break the current laws and systems. I dont believe that most people are ready for that amount of freedom.

However, i believe that thelemites should become alot more public, and perhaps do more in the light of the media perhaps in charity work, to change the worlds view of thelema.


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 5330
 
"dongo" wrote:
i believe that thelemites should become alot more public

And herein lies the problem inherent in considering Thelema as a political movement when it's actually far more concerned with the individual's choice, motivations and actions.

For example, I'd want nothing whatsoever to do with a movement based on your political "ideals", even if you do label it "Thelema":

a true thelemic political movement ... [would be] an anarchistic movement, violent and noisy so to break the current laws and systems.

Thelema - to me - is so much more than just "violence and noise"; it's far more nuanced, subtle and individual than that.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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Walterfive
(@walterfive)
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"dongo" wrote:
I believe for a true thelemic political movement, it would have to be at heart an anarchistic movement, violent and noisy so to break the current laws and systems. I dont believe that most people are ready for that amount of freedom.

To *me* this merely indicates that you have a predisposition to Anarchism (not that there's anything wrong with that). But I don't think that it's an idea supported by To Mega Therion's Commentaries.

I know a number of Thelemite Soldiers who would vehemently disagree with you, and propose that Chapter Three of the Book of the Law suggests that a Thelemic Political Movement would be a Militocratic nature. In view of Baphomet's Initiatory Rituals as commonly published in works like "Secret Rituals" (with which I'm sure most of us have at *least* passing familiarity), I personally believe this idea has some merit.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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"lashtal" wrote:
"dongo" wrote:
i believe that thelemites should become alot more public

And herein lies the problem inherent in considering Thelema as a political movement when it's actually far more concerned with the individual's choice, motivations and actions.

For example, I'd want nothing whatsoever to do with a movement based on your political "ideals", even if you do label it "Thelema":

a true thelemic political movement ... [would be] an anarchistic movement, violent and noisy so to break the current laws and systems.

Thelema - to me - is so much more than just "violence and noise"; it's far more nuanced, subtle and individual than that.

Liberty, composed of individual freedom and independence for those who will have it, is the ideal political goal, IMO. Not an abstract goal, not an unrealistic goal, but simply the facilitation of the optimal 'Thelema friendly' environment, where the individual may best know and do true Will.


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 Anonymous
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"Walterfive" wrote:
To *me* this merely indicates that you have a predisposition to Anarchism (not that there's anything wrong with that). But I don't think that it's an idea supported by To Mega Therion's Commentaries.

I know a number of Thelemite Soldiers who would vehemently disagree with you, and propose that Chapter Three of the Book of the Law suggests that a Thelemic Political Movement would be a Militocratic nature. In view of Baphomet's Initiatory Rituals as commonly published in works like "Secret Rituals" (with which I'm sure most of us have at *least* passing familiarity), I personally believe this idea has some merit.

I did not mean to say that it would anarcharcal forever, I merely meant that for a change to happen at this present time, it would be rather messy since no governments on earth want to lose their control. Perhaps indeed this is what Chapter 3 relates to.

In either case, thelema is hardly organised enough to have its own branch of military (unless there is underground and i dont know, in which case let me know of it!) This is why i say we should try and act out in some political way, in the open (whilst keeping alot of it secret) so that at least we are having a say in how society is shaped. It seems t


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

]

Liberty, composed of individual freedom and independence for those who will have it, is the ideal political goal, IMO. Not an abstract goal, not an unrealistic goal, but simply the facilitation of the optimal 'Thelema friendly' environment, where the individual may best know and do true Will.[/quote

I do indeed agree with that being the ultimate goal. As of late however it seems as though quite the reverse is occuring, and governments seem to be making more and more laws which restrict us further.

This been said, i do agree that thelema is for the individual to decide, but if we were to give certain people in society (and definately not all) a world in which all is permitted, things would get rather aggressive rather quickly. Alot of people would not understand a world where they can 'do what they will'. Having been told what to do since day dot, many find comfort in what they should feel is right or wrong, what they should eat, where they should sleep, who they should sleep with.

This is why, (i feel) more steps should be taken to publicise thelema as not only a spiritual path, but also a political one, to explain to those people who would not understand, so that they do.


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Walterfive
(@walterfive)
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Joined: 16 years ago
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"dongo" wrote:
"Walterfive" wrote:
To *me* this merely indicates that you have a predisposition to Anarchism (not that there's anything wrong with that). But I don't think that it's an idea supported by To Mega Therion's Commentaries.

I know a number of Thelemite Soldiers who would vehemently disagree with you, and propose that Chapter Three of the Book of the Law suggests that a Thelemic Political Movement would be a Militocratic nature. In view of Baphomet's Initiatory Rituals as commonly published in works like "Secret Rituals" (with which I'm sure most of us have at *least* passing familiarity), I personally believe this idea has some merit.

I did not mean to say that it would anarcharcal forever, I merely meant that for a change to happen at this present time, it would be rather messy since no governments on earth want to lose their control. Perhaps indeed this is what Chapter 3 relates to.

In either case, thelema is hardly organised enough to have its own branch of military (unless there is underground and i dont know, in which case let me know of it!) This is why i say we should try and act out in some political way, in the open (whilst keeping alot of it secret) so that at least we are having a say in how society is shaped. It seems t

But how do you know that we do not already? I am aware of several Thelemites here in the U.S. who have been individuals of influence, and the advisors of people who are individuals of influence. Military and Federal Officers, Civil Servants, Lawyers, "the hidden and the few" as it were. I'm aware of like-minded Setians, Rosicrucians and Mystically-Minded Masons in similar situations. Hardly the "Illuminati Conspiracy" that the Van Ickes of the world imagine, but they're finding their way up the Military, Federal, Political, and Corporate ladders here in the U.S. I was discussing this very topic with Lon Duquette last February. He agreed that most people in the community have little idea how and where we've gotten, or are going to go.


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 Anonymous
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"Walterfive" wrote:
"dongo" wrote:
I did not mean to say that it would anarcharcal forever, I merely meant that for a change to happen at this present time, it would be rather messy since no governments on earth want to lose their control. Perhaps indeed this is what Chapter 3 relates to.

In either case, thelema is hardly organised enough to have its own branch of military (unless there is underground and i dont know, in which case let me know of it!) This is why i say we should try and act out in some political way, in the open (whilst keeping alot of it secret) so that at least we are having a say in how society is shaped. It seems t

But how do you know that we do not already? I am aware of several Thelemites here in the U.S. who have been individuals of influence, and the advisors of people who are individuals of influence. Military and Federal Officers, Civil Servants, Lawyers, "the hidden and the few" as it were. I'm aware of like-minded Setians, Rosicrucians and Mystically-Minded Masons in similar situations. Hardly the "Illuminati Conspiracy" that the Van Ickes of the world imagine, but they're finding their way up the Military, Federal, Political, and Corporate ladders here in the U.S. I was discussing this very topic with Lon Duquette last February. He agreed that most people in the community have little idea how and where we've gotten, or are going to go.

I certainly agree. As the political ideologies (and purses) of 'those in power,' both on the counter-Thelemic Right and Left, become bankrupt, a vacuum is being created. We have only to fill it with that which is pro-Thelema. This is already happening, although quietly and without fanfare.


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Walterfive
(@walterfive)
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"dongo" wrote:
I did not mean to say that it would anarcharcal forever, I merely meant that for a change to happen at this present time, it would be rather messy since no governments on earth want to lose their control. Perhaps indeed this is what Chapter 3 relates to.

Oh! Thank you for clarifying that point.

Well, given that Babalon and To Mega Therion are the creative and generative forces of Chaos, an anarchic transitional period would almost be inevitable, it almost always happens when there's a change in the power stucture... look at Berlin after the fall of the Reich, at the International Zone after the Civil War in Algiers, at Haiti after just about every election since Papa Doc and Baby Doc, or at the changing of any of the so-called Banana Republics of Central America over the last 40 years... 30,000 Despares (the lost)vanished in El Salvador from 1975-1985 alone.

However, the turn of the wheel of the Zodiac is slow; tracking this sort of progress through procession of the Equinoxes in previous Aeons is difficult; one has to take several steps back for the broadest view. For example, although Rome changed relatively overnight in 46 BCE from being perhaps the greatest Republic in history to a despotic Militocracy when Julius Cesear took power at the relative beginning of the Aeon of Osiris, it took another 10 centuries for Rome's decline and fall, the Byzantine Empire from the 4th through 12th Centuries CE, and for the rise of the Holy Roman Empire (which itself didn't finally end until Napoleon defeated it in 1816).

Look at the Templars & Masons! Here in North America, the St. Clairs founded Mount Royale (Montreal) in the 14th Century, but it took another 400 years for their envisioned Masonic/Templar Republic to be unsuccessfully tried in 1776, and another 60 years after that they unsucessfully tried again with the Republic of Texas.

With that sort of long view in mind, it strikes me that it may well be that the first Thelemic Nation isn't even founded here on Terra-- it would be ironic, no, if ours had some sort of Heinleinesque begining on the Moon or Mars? I like the sound of that... I'm sure Jack Parsons would!


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 Anonymous
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law
93,
I:10: "Let my servants be few & secret: they shall rule the many & the known." It seems to me a Thelemite in politics would not reveal that they are a Thelemite. IMHO
93,
Love is the law, love under will


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amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
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I see the old misaprehension of Anarchy = Chaos is alive and well. In the 70s it reached a point where subcategories had to be created of Anarchy-Peace and Anarchy-Chaos so that people could be clear what they were talking about (and far too rarely doing).
sensu strictu the Thelemic structure can't be truly anarchic as it operates under the given of there being at least one Law or rule.

...several Thelemites here in the U.S. who have been individuals of influence, and the advisors of people who are individuals of influence. Military and Federal Officers, Civil Servants, Lawyers, ... [and] ... like-minded Setians, Rosicrucians and Mystically-Minded Masons in similar situations...

Not to be too cynical but I believe that there are vast numbers of similar positions being filled by people of other faiths or philosophies, far outnumbering the Thelemites and their ilk, and yet these groups have not yet manifested anything like their ideal world. In fact by current results, anything but.

an anarchic transitional period ... almost always happens when there's a change in the power stucture

so are we all looking forward to one in the US just now? Or just the same old 'Wont get fooled again'? 😉

Don't get me wrong I think that there are great changes afoot I just feel that they are unlikely to be overly swayed by the actions/desires of even the most organised and uniform of groups (face it not something in vast supply in this region of the collective psyche) especially when all the other conflicting desires/actions are put into play.

As T.V. Smith put it;

"Anything can happen
We just react
Our cars crash at random
If we´re at the wheel why are there accidents?
But the drivers get nervous
If they think they serve no purpose
So let it thunder, let it pour
They think they´re above it all
They´re wrong, of course"

and then the chorus gives a clue to an answer;

"It´s imagination leading the invasion
It´s imagination
not something you can hold in your hands
It´s imagination"


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Walterfive
(@walterfive)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 856
 
"amadan-De" wrote:
I see the old misaprehension of Anarchy = Chaos is alive and well. In the 70s it reached a point where subcategories had to be created of Anarchy-Peace and Anarchy-Chaos so that people could be clear what they were talking about (and far too rarely doing).
sensu strictu the Thelemic structure can't be truly anarchic as it operates under the given of there being at least one Law or rule....

This I certainly agree with.

...several Thelemites here in the U.S. who have been individuals of influence, and the advisors of people who are individuals of influence. Military and Federal Officers, Civil Servants, Lawyers, ... [and] ... like-minded Setians, Rosicrucians and Mystically-Minded Masons in similar situations...

Not to be too cynical but I believe that there are vast numbers of similar positions being filled by people of other faiths or philosophies, far outnumbering the Thelemites and their ilk, and yet these groups have not yet manifested anything like their ideal world.

Quote:
Perhaps, but they're not operating under the Word of the Magus of the New Aeon, now, are they?

They're the dogs of reason, and etc. etc. etc. enough of Because! Smite them, etc. etc. laugh at their folly etc. etc. make fun of their genitalia etc. etc. I'm sure you know the standard rant. Really, I can't be bothered, I'm getting off work in a minute here!


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amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 686
 

I believe the correct response would be;
"Success is your proof".

Show me.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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93,

I believe it is is everybody's duty to watch their rulers VERY closely and at ALL times. By that very statement being Political in the Webster's definition is mandatory.
Being Politically savvy in general terms is invaluable in coping with everyone you encounter on a day to day basis.

Camlion, being a resident of California I agree with you that the two party system is madness but this is the MADDEST Country of all and no way is that going to change in the next 100 years.

Unless a Billionaire Thelemite starts their own party over here the financial realities of coming up with an alternative to the two party choice is here to stay.

Also remeber this Country is still in it's infantile stage compared to all the other great nations that have thousands of years head ster on us, so we'll see in a couple of hundred years what this place is like???

Stay involved watching closelywith the nutters that want to tell you what to do!

93, 93/93


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Walterfive
(@walterfive)
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Joined: 16 years ago
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Show you what?

Surely you jest.

If you have to ask, you'll never know. Here we stand, coming off the cusp of the New Aeon, with the Minister of Hoor-Par-Kraat pointing the way, and you say "Show me?" Show you *why*? Because of your doubt?

You lack certainty, sir. And specifically the sort of certainty that our Prophet promises "both in this world and the next." If you cannot find it within yourself, don't expect anyone to deliver to you at your request.


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amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 686
 

You misunderstand.
Why should I not doubt your protestations, they are not mine. Mine I do not doubt (though I don't always believe them).
There is no *why* to my "show me" - Perhaps I should have said "Do It!" (Pink Fairies). 😈

coming off the cusp of the New Aeon

what at only 1.4444444444 degrees in we are already coming off the cusp? How do we know this? - any reply referencing anothers (i.e. AC) recorded experience is a return to Because. He may record how HE knew which is valuable and instructive but that is not the same thing as how YOU or I know.
(I am not going anywhere near the horribly flawed theory (myth) of the Aeons and their alleged relationship to human history and prehistory - perhaps ironically the best ever fit of our current state of knowledge about the past correlated to the precession of the Equinoxes and the esoteric qualities of the Zodiac I ever heard was given by a semi-retired official of the Church of Scotland, he did ask that we not tell his bosses though. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Aye, and stranger bedfellows besides.)

miles_vera - strong truth (which is my opinion and in no way meant to reflect a statement of the absolute for anyone else.)


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"miles_vera" wrote:
93,

I believe it is is everybody's duty to watch their rulers VERY closely and at ALL times. By that very statement being Political in the Webster's definition is mandatory.
Being Politically savvy in general terms is invaluable in coping with everyone you encounter on a day to day basis.

Camlion, being a resident of California I agree with you that the two party system is madness but this is the MADDEST Country of all and no way is that going to change in the next 100 years.

Unless a Billionaire Thelemite starts their own party over here the financial realities of coming up with an alternative to the two party choice is here to stay.

Also remeber this Country is still in it's infantile stage compared to all the other great nations that have thousands of years head ster on us, so we'll see in a couple of hundred years what this place is like???

Stay involved watching closelywith the nutters that want to tell you what to do!

93, 93/93

93 miles_vera,

The watchword used to be "question everything," and many people did for a time. Nowadays, this often seems to have slipped away again.

Yes, two political realities in the USA hold true: Elections are bought, and the best liar wins. A somewhat difficult environment in which to work.

And yes, this is young country, and this is young aeon, as noted elsewhere in these forums this week. However, things happen at a much quicker pace than they did one hundred or so years ago. 🙂


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Walterfive
(@walterfive)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 856
 
"Camlion" wrote:
Yes, two political realities in the USA hold true: Elections are bought, and the best liar wins. A somewhat difficult environment in which to work.

And yes, this is young country, and this is young aeon, as noted elsewhere in these forums this week. However, things happen at a much quicker pace than they did one hundred or so years ago. 🙂

Indeed. Our technological progress as a planet in the last century is greater than the progress of all recorded history in the 5000-odd years prior. Only 20 years ago, more than 50% of the planet's population had never heard a telephone dial-tone (see "50 Facts Which Should Change The World"). I can only wonder what will happen when our collective spiritual and psychic progress takes similar acelleration, and the common man moves from the Judaic Telegraph, or the Islamic Marconi Radio, to the philosophic and religious equivalents of the Telephone, Television, Cell Phone and Internet.


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Palamedes
(@palamedes)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 450
 
"Walterfive" wrote:
Here in North America, the St. Clairs founded Mount Royale (Montreal) in the 14th Century

93 Walter,

I'm just wondering if your math is a bit off, since the received wisdom is that Montreal was founded in 1642 (i.e. in 17th century).


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Walterfive" wrote:
"Camlion" wrote:
Yes, two political realities in the USA hold true: Elections are bought, and the best liar wins. A somewhat difficult environment in which to work.

And yes, this is young country, and this is young aeon, as noted elsewhere in these forums this week. However, things happen at a much quicker pace than they did one hundred or so years ago. 🙂

Indeed. Our technological progress as a planet in the last century is greater than the progress of all recorded history in the 5000-odd years prior. Only 20 years ago, more than 50% of the planet's population had never heard a telephone dial-tone (see "50 Facts Which Should Change The World"). I can only wonder what will happen when our collective spiritual and psychic progress takes similar acelleration, and the common man moves from the Judaic Telegraph, or the Islamic Marconi Radio, to the philosophic and religious equivalents of the Telephone, Television, Cell Phone and Internet.

93 Walter. Our spiritual evolution is progressing concurrently with our evolution on other levels, and the former is the impetus for the latter, IMO. That this has not been announced on the local television news broadcasts should not dishearten us. The acceptance of technology will come much easier than will the abdication of the throne of the slave gods to Man. Also, it will not always be a pretty process.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Walterfive" wrote:
...and the common man moves from the Judaic Telegraph, or the Islamic Marconi Radio, to the philosophic and religious equivalents of the Telephone, Television, Cell Phone and Internet.

Good point. We are in a transition now (or "cusp" as you pointed out elsewhere), and such "overlapping" periods are identified by (1) confusion, and (2) an increase in communication.

Perhaps the interesting concern should be about the common man moving from the Judaic Stone (as in "stoning"), or the Islamic Sword (as in "chopping"), to the philosophic and religious equivalents of the ICBM, Laser-wielding Satellites, and Nuclear Bombs. In fact, this appears to be a major political concern today if we can trust the Yahoo! and Newspaper headlines. The latest reported report shows that almost all intelligence agencies see nuclear actions as very likely in the near future. Anybody remember the backyard bomb-shelters and the "drop" drills?


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