Non-dual Concepts w...
 
Notifications
Clear all

[Closed] Non-dual Concepts within Thelema

Page 1 / 4

Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5986
Topic starter  

I plan to take a digital copy of Liber AL and remove all dual references ... leaving only those messages that refer directly (and obviously) to the non-dual state.

This is not a priority on my list, so while we're waiting for The List That Leads to Nothing, here's a couple of concepts to dwell on ...

1. Therefore man is only himself when lost to himself in the Charioting.

2. Pure Will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is everyway perfect.


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 
Posted by: @shiva

I plan to take a digital copy of Liber AL and remove all dual references ... leaving only those messages that refer directly (and obviously) to the non-dual state.

But the requirement is to UNITE all dual references!

All text refers directly to the non dual state!

Posted by: @shiva

This is not a priority on my list, so while we're waiting for The List That Leads to Nothing,

It is not a list that leads to nothing, it is a list that leads to everything!

 

( I see you posted this earlier, by five hours. I was caught up in another discussion on another thread and did not notice 🙂

Thank you

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5986
Topic starter  
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

But the requirement is to UNITE all dual references!

I didn't get those requirement orders. As you know, my radio can't get anything from the Galactic Center, the Sirius band is open, but it gets distorted, and all the terrestrial transmitters are beaming out war, rocket ships (as people escape to Mars), and world health disorders, so I have to get by with what gets through. 

 


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 
Posted by: @shiva

I didn't get those requirement orders.

Yes you did, they were just in Japanese

Nage Waza  (The 8 throws)

 Irimi Nage 
 Juji Nage 
 Kaiten Nage 
 Kokyu Nage 
 Koshi Nage 
 Shiho Nage 
 Tenchi Nage 
 Ude Kime Nage 

As you know, my radio can't get anything from the Galactic Center,

No worries, the signal is already inside your body!

Non-duality is a remarkably "simple" way to understand non-duality! 

its just the word "non-duality" is getting in the way.

The only way to see non duality work in everyday interaction and practical life is to transcend duality and non-duality.

No Magus level required!

It comes in degrees. You practice non-duality when you practice Aikido. Maybe your "mind" is not in prajna-paramita when you practice, but your body is in non duality when you practice Aikido, and then the body trains the mind to accept the "non-dual" state.

Only the Buddha is in Prajma Paramita 24/7 Mind body and speech! And the Buddha's body is the absolute state, since Shakyamuni passed on more than 2000 years ago.

Non duality comes in degrees. The highest degree is the Dharmakaya, the absolute body of the buddha. that is the "non-dual" you're probably thinking of, the non-duality of the dead guys, ascended masters in buddha realms, etc.

But there is also the Nirmanakaya, which is just the body here and now, and that too can enter non duality, and it does when you practice aikido.

And you also experience non-duality in another degree when you can transcend text.

Everyone can transcend duality when they take a yes or no scenario and make it into a maybe.

Why making it so hard when it is so easy?

You sir, already know this and you are just tickling the massive internet search audiences pouring into this forum now.

 

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5986
Topic starter  

Here's how I understand non-dualism in Thelema: There is no non-dual concept mentioned, as such. The words non-duall, or Advaita (which I take to men "non-dual"), were first heard by me here at LAShTAL, and they were uttered/typed by Michael Staley. And that was maybe 5 years ago.

Other words, such as "unite," "nothing," "dhyana," that mean the same thing (as non-dual) can be found throughout the Thelemic literature. So it's not an unknown concept.

All this talk about non-duality is just talk. How is it accomplished? The dual state hinges upon the knower and the thing known. In Raja Yoga, the dharana of the aspirant is focused upon a single object. At some point, if there are not too many breaks, the knower loses his/her sense of separate identity and "becomes" the object he/she has focused upon (co-incidentally being exposed to all the qualities of the object through gnosis (direct perception).

Entry into dhyana (meditation) is usually marked by a flash of light and, perhaps, a "click" sound. The meditator finds him/her self without a self ... how strange.

This is all explain in Book 4 - Part I, which is the textbook for the course, Practical Thelema 101. This is basic non-dual Thelema, even if it's Raja Yoga and Other Yoga, and can be learned in many places East and West.

Crowley also advocated another, mental, approach. The one where any idea is put against its opposite so that both disappear. The mind doesn't like disappearance, so it throws up a third, synthetic idea ... which, of course, must be countered by its opposite. This countering goes on until one arrives at zero (theoretically). There is also the possibility that the mind will just become fatigued, break down, and one will become enlightened/annihilated, which is an olde trick whereby one fatigues any sense. For example, practices to fatique the retina (deplete the available ions) results in the ability to see auras. This is a case of the mind using itself to stop itself, something which is deemed impossible by many, even some fellows who post on that subject, right here.

I have found the mental opposition method to be of no use to me. I have found the fatiguing exercise to work.

A third Thelemic practicum involves sexual union, which is what "tantra" meant in the States back in the 60s. Therion has written extensively on this method, claiming it is the supreme key to the mysteries. Such practices are well-known in the Orient. The secret of secrets of the Sanctuary of the Gnosis, IX*, can be found in ancient Taoist manuscripts.

These are the three, major, Thelemic practices that are known pretty much by everyone here. They are mostly borrowed from other traditions, but so what?

(There are probably other "Thelemic" practices that are designed to lead to The Unified Field. Anyone, please feel free to supplement my meager list.

So many Thelemites also go poking around in Taoism, Buddhism, Sufi stuff, Bon, Amazonian Shamanism, Leary, Reich, Tesla, and such oddities.

The main point is that any practice will do the trick as long as it results in ego loss, or at least the stoppage of the talking part of the brain/mind. As Frater Stanley the Templar would snarl out in every third or fourth sentence, "The Fucking Ego." (He was on a collision course with his ego, and I never saw any evidence of ego-loss, so we'll have to leave him in the dual state).

[Stop]

 


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 
Posted by: @shiva

All this talk about non-duality is just talk.

YES! Exactly. And all of this talking is in a natural state of emptiness, and we can use conversations to get us closer and close to transcending experiences.

Posted by: @shiva

How is it accomplished?

Well my wisdom is only limited to showing how to accomplish it with text language and communication. How to transcend the text specifically and resolving the contradictions, however they appear. So my talent here has limits!

Posted by: @shiva

This is all explain in Book 4 - Part I, which is the textbook for the course, Practical Thelema 101. This is basic non-dual Thelema, even if it's Raja Yoga and Other Yoga, and can be learned in many places East and West.

That is a specific non-dual practice, and sure, whatever state it takes you can be that "non-dual" state. 

But there is another quality of non-dual state that can occur, and that is non duality that we can enter together.

Like Aikido practice, for example.

Does it transcend all duality, does it take you to the prajna-paramita?

No, or at least it doesn't have to.

It is simply helping us focus on how duality can influence aggression, and how to transcend the duality of aggression and attack by putting the bodies into a "non-competitive" space with each other, instead of an "attack or defend" space with each other.

Everything is non-duality. Non-duality is the natural and absolute state of everything. Non-duality does not stop when Raja Yoga stops, and it does not begin with the Raja Yoga begins.

Non-duality is just the "union of the opposites", and what is special about Thelema is how it introduces a way of approaching history, language, and communication through a very unique "non-dual" approach.

And this can be very practical! And it influences history, it makes a mark. It may not appear that way at first, but at some point, it is rather simple to see that it is all emerging from praja-paramita, and this is exactly where Magick with a capital M happens.

And you know that! I know you know that. And I know Crowley knew that because he teased us with non-dual language and riddles all over the place.

!? is his funny way of introducing non-duality into The Book of Lies

EDIT: You asked me how I define "tantra", and I said Magick, Alchemy, Tantra are all interchangeable terms, and "non-duality" as a word is also interchangeable with all of them! There is no magick or tantra or alchemy without non-duality!

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 
Posted by: @shiva

Crowley also advocated another, mental, approach. The one where any idea is put against its opposite so that both disappear. The mind doesn't like disappearance, so it throws up a third, synthetic idea ... which, of course, must be countered by its opposite. This countering goes on until one arrives at zero (theoretically). There is also the possibility that the mind will just become fatigued, break down, and one will become enlightened/annihilated, which is an olde trick whereby one fatigues any sense. For example, practices to fatique the retina (deplete the available ions) results in the ability to see auras. This is a case of the mind using itself to stop itself, something which is deemed impossible by many, even some fellows who post on that subject, right here.

I have found the mental opposition method to be of no use to me. I have found the fatiguing exercise to work.

Well you communicate all the time on message boards, this what we are doing right now with each other is how that is supposed to work out, not in isolation!

What Crowley was I believe attempting to explain is the natural process of conversation happening. What he described is not a "practice" or "work" to do, it is the natural flow of the dialogue.

Posted by: @shiva

A third Thelemic practicum involves sexual union, which is what "tantra" meant in the States back in the 60s. Therion has written extensively on this method, claiming it is the supreme key to the mysteries. Such practices are well-known in the Orient. The secret of secrets of the Sanctuary of the Gnosis, IX*, can be found in ancient Taoist manuscripts.

I am of the mind currently that the sexual union yogas of Thelema are...hooey phooey. I don't think he quite got it. At least in terms of developing a practice. I might be wrong!

Posted by: @shiva

The main point is that any practice will do the trick as long as it results in ego loss, or at least the stoppage of the talking part of the brain/mind.

Yes, so imagine that everything in our lives turns into that practice naturally! Walking to the bus stop, mailing a letter, conversing with the old ladies, all of it is the dojo!

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Pertinax
(@pertinax)
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 81
 

@sangewanchuck56

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Yes you did, they were just in Japanese

Nage Waza  (The 8 throws)

 Irimi Nage 
 Juji Nage 
 Kaiten Nage 
 Kokyu Nage 
 Koshi Nage 
 Shiho Nage 
 Tenchi Nage 
 Ude Kime Nage 

Indeed. You can take this one further; it's worth noting that the word for the partner in Aikido (Aite 相手) is not enemy, but partner, mutual, companion.

Further, if you, the nage, are not fully unified in yourself, the throw is only a physical throw and will only work if a) ukemi is being kind, or b) you are just really strong.

Crowley mentioned somewhere about the perfect golf put being the one you have no idea how you did. In my experience Aikido is like this, mostly we go through the motions, try to practice the 4 principles of mind-body unification and the 5 principles of Aikido, and once in a while the movement just blends together, and ukemi flies off into the throw, usually laughing, and nage has no idea how it happened, it just worked.

My way of thinking about it is as follows: The first non-duality is of the mind-body, which are really one, not two. The second is between the parts of the body, upper and lower mostly, we try to move from one-point but the head gets left behind, or we try to force ourselves to move headfirst and the one-point gets left behind, either way the result is conflict. The third is between the nage and uke and results in the perfect throw mentioned earlier, or else results in clashing, muscling through the technique, which we can class as 'practice'.

 


David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3074
 
Posted by: @shiva

I plan to take a digital copy of Liber AL and remove all dual references ... leaving only those messages that refer directly (and obviously) to the non-dual state.

This is not a priority on my list, so while we're waiting for The List That Leads to Nothing, here's a couple of concepts to dwell on ...

1. Therefore man is only himself when lost to himself in the Charioting.

2. Pure Will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is everyway perfect.

In a state of being immune to insults and critique from others?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 
Posted by: @pertinax

Indeed. You can take this one further; it's worth noting that the word for the partner in Aikido (Aite 相手) is not enemy, but partner, mutual, companion.

What a treat it is to discuss all of this with Aikidokas!

I'm not sure i would be anywhere interesting at all in life with all of my esoteric leanings and study where it not for this very very special art!

How do you view Aikido, a 20th Century manifestation, the first martial art in the world that applied a non-dual approach to violence, a "contradictory" appearing approach that "weaponizes" harmony in light of Liber al Vel Legis?

The "weaponization" of harmony, using "peace" to "attack" provides a highly unusual and affective martial "strategy", because there is no defense against an Aikidoka who seeks to do no harm to you when you are trying to kill him.

Does that "ring" of RHK Chp 3 at all to you?

If we are going to interpret things like "war", "conquest", that sort of thing, do you think that maybe the non dual martial strategy, the "union of war and love", the transmutation of war into love, seems like the highest interpretation that text can get to, no?

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 
Posted by: @dom

In a state of being immune to insults and critique from others?

Hi Dom! I am not sure if this comment itself is a "critique", perhaps of the convo and my rapid fire responses yesterday (for which I apologize for my selfishness there), but a "state of being immune to insults" has for me another meaning in this thread, Non-Duality and Thelema, and "critiques from others" these things, for me, actually take direct teaching from Chp 2 and 3 of Liber Al.

"As brothers fight ye" lets us know that Liber Al's intention, in this text and elsewhere, deals with conflict, fighting, etc.

And this thread has introduced "Aikido", but in light of Chp 3, which of course is also a form of "fighting" as brothers.

As Aikido gives us this unique view, the transmutation of war into love through physical violence, I believe the non-duality of thelema, liber al, is initiating a way for us to do this identical thing Aikido can do with the physical, but with writing, conversation, negotiating, the "real" conflicts we face far more often that physical violence.

"A king may  choose any garment as he will, but a beggar cannot hide their poverty."

"King vs King!"

"Battle for conquest about my secret house" etc may all be alluding to this.

And if it not alluding to it directly, then someone messed up because Liber Al vel Legis describes this "dialectical" process, the "conflict of viewpoints" with elegance and grace.

So if there is an alchemy that can transmute duality into union like Aikido with violence, I am suggesting that Liber al Vel Legis unveils a manner of the same identical "strategy" of Aikido, but applied to the exchange of ideas and viewpoints between human beings, internally (thou are against the people!) and externally (as brothers fight ye)

I mean, debates and arguments can be highly unsettling affairs in the mind.

And the mind always stores "unresolved" contradictions, and these "unresolved contradictions" are what we are all really arguing over in the world with politics, religion, culture, etc.

And that is a profound element to have tucked away deep in this obscure and highly influential work, and if what I am suggesting has any merit, then we should see a shift happening in the world where these novel "non-dual" RHK "war-engines" begin to manifest around the world, big and small, right after 1904.

And we do! We do see the 20th Century play this out, and still is in 2021.

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3074
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

 

Hi Dom! I am not sure if this comment itself is a "critique", perhaps of the convo and my rapid fire responses yesterday (for which I apologize for my selfishness there),

No it had nothing to do with you at all.  Shiva gets messed with on this forum here and there and a lot of the time he can handle it. 

 

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

, I am suggesting that Liber al Vel Legis unveils a manner of the same identical "strategy" of Aikido, but applied to the exchange of ideas and viewpoints between human beings, internally (thou are against the people!) and externally (as brothers fight ye)

I..............................

And the mind always stores "unresolved" contradictions, and these "unresolved contradictions" are what we are all really arguing over in the world with politics, religion, culture, etc.

And that is a profound element to have tucked away deep in this obscure and highly influential work, and if what I am suggesting has any merit, then we should see a shift happening in the world where these novel "non-dual" RHK "war-engines" begin to manifest around the world, big and small, right after 1904.

And we do! We do see the 20th Century play this out, and still is in 2021.

Culturally yeah the ideas of the monasteries of the East hit the West in the 20th century didn't they?  People got sick of conscripted war as weapons of mass destruction loomed over all.  That brings me back to the 40s 80s link i.e. Hiroshima-Nagasaki and the Soviet-Reagan arms race. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 
Posted by: @dom

Culturally yeah the ideas of the monasteries of the East hit the West in the 20th century didn't they?  People got sick of conscripted war as weapons of mass destruction loomed over all.  That brings me back to the 40s 80s link i.e. Hiroshima-Nagasaki and the Soviet-Reagan arms race. 

According the view of a continually resolving dialectic (which Hegel introduced about 150 or so years before Crowley) every single event that occurs, everything in history and also all of the individual experiences and actions within each historical "arc" are from an entire set of "evolving conversations", when ideas "fight".

Mind if I state a simple explanation? Familiar with Ayn Rand? Very influential writer and philosopher here in the US in the 20th century (this is a reference to her work, not an endorsement!). 

Her "themes" were primarily around two concepts, the free market, a certain type of "libertarianism", and "atheism" and specifically, the denial of everything she called "mysticism".

Early part of the 20th century.

She came from Russia! So you can see how the historical dialectic shaped her influence. She escaped russia to escape the coming "communism", which itself is a dialectical response to Hegel himself, where Marx introduced the historical dialectic WITHOUT GOD or SPIRIT (necessary in Hegel's model).

So on the one hand, Rand received the "atheism" of dialectical marxism, but rejected dialectical marxist conclusion around ownership of property and the rights of the individual.

And it's funny to me, to see, for example, here in 2021, the RNC, one half fevered theists, another half Rand toting Libertarians. And we can see Ayn Rand's theme engaging, even subtly, in how all of this plays out in 2021 with the RNC, the types of conversations they are having, all the contradictions in those viewpoints are "lurking" in the background until they are brought to "light" through "heated" conversation which produces a "resolution" or synthesis.

Unfortunately, interfering with the historical dialectic are influence campaigns, and...MEME MAGICK! Yikes, I feel sorry for our RNC brethren, and I hope they work themselves out of the "Q" black magic quickly!

Does that make sense?

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5986
Topic starter  
Posted by: @shiva

How is it accomplished?

Well my wisdom is only limited to showing how to accomplish it with text language and communication.

Um, that was a rhetorical question on my oart. I then proceeded to tell how it is accomplished in certain Thelemic ways ... using techniques  that were borrowed from other dystems by Crowley.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Like Aikido practice, for example.

Yes, here we find a slight difference from fixed dharana/dhyana. The basic Raja Yoga practices involve fixed, single images, while the Aikido practice is moving and dynamic. But it's really no different from the Raja Yoga of AC ...

"Let him move on to more complex images, including people,
who move and jump around and do strange things."
[a complex paraphrase]

The wonder of Aikido is that we use this mental application while engaged with opponents wielding long curved razors.

image

The techniques will not work properly, you will get cut, unless you enter a reasonable facsimile of wu-wei

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

does it take you to the prajna-paramita?

"Prajna-paramita" is not understanable by this lowly ingrate. Please define complex ferenghi (foreigner) terms in English for us dolts. I mean, I could go look it up on the Borg, but the burden of translation is on the poster, according to The Guidelines, which speak of the  "posting in English" requirement.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Everything is non-duality.

A lovely sentiment. Sort of like saying, "Everything is God," which is true enough - once one gets out. Before "getting out," everything is Me vs The Stuff. You, too. It is important to not mix the planes, or confuse them. The world of text and talk is quite "dual." A proper expression would be ...

Everything is seen as non-duality, when one is in
the Rigpa/Adi (primordial) state.

Other wise (non Rigpa/Adi), we are all getting knocked around by "other" dualistic things.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

I am of the mind currently that the sexual union yogas of Thelema are...hooey phooey.

Oh, there's an entire thread about "Does Sex Magick Work?"  The general consensus seems to have arrived at the understanding that sex for internal elevation (shift in consciousness) works just dandy, but attempts to influence matter usually fall far short of "success." Even Crowley, the foremost progenitor of sexual magic, was not able to produce proper external "results."

Posted by: @pertinax

once in a while the movement just blends together, and ukemi flies off into the throw, usually laughing, and nage has no idea how it happened, it just worked.

My wife entered the dojo with no prior experience. At the third lesson (the 3rd day), I watched her drop a huge, football-sized player. He had a surprised look on his face. Afterward, she said, "It worked!"  I also have many experiences with students who "accidentally" get it to work, early in the game. The "once in a while" phenomenon is not something one looks forward to in the higher degrees; it kicks in, from time to time, right from the beginning. The task is to get it working consistently ... every time - this is what the higher degrees are about.

The same thing applies to losing one's self in meditation.

Posted by: @dom

In a state of being immune to insults and critique from others?

Yes, but only if one is dwelling in harmony with the insulters and the critics. One would need to apply the Aikido principles under discussion, to interpersonal business or debate. The odds favor one getting distracted by personal attacks (with razors or words) - in the early stages. The higher stages, usually reserved for old farts (the Japanese have an age factor that they employ), who appear to be undisturbed by anything.

 

 


Pertinax
(@pertinax)
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 81
 

@sangewanchuck56

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

How do you view Aikido, a 20th Century manifestation, the first martial art in the world that applied a non-dual approach to violence, a "contradictory" appearing approach that "weaponizes" harmony in light of Liber al Vel Legis?

The "weaponization" of harmony, using "peace" to "attack" provides a highly unusual and affective martial "strategy", because there is no defense against an Aikidoka who seeks to do no harm to you when you are trying to kill him.

Does that "ring" of RHK Chp 3 at all to you?

If we are going to interpret things like "war", "conquest", that sort of thing, do you think that maybe the non dual martial strategy, the "union of war and love", the transmutation of war into love, seems like the highest interpretation that text can get to, no?

Back when I started formally practicing Aikido (I'd had some exposure 10 years previously from my Tai chi instructor), I was at the time  Probationer of the A.'.A.'.. I recall being sat in the dojo on a Sunday morning, the instructor read, as we always do, from the shokushu (Toheis book of 'ki sayings'): "The universe is a limitless circle with a limitless radius. This condensed becomes the one-point in the lower abdomen, which is the centre of the universe".

You could say I knew at that point I'd come to the right place.

These days I don't really think in terms of Liber al, but it's worth considering that in aikido the nage has to actually be very aggressive. Irimi nage in its many manifestations always starts with 'entering', as soon as ukes ki moves, and seizing the initiative, thus leading uke to emptiness (usually face down on the tatami). A passive nage gets hit in the face, conversely, a passive uke gets something broken, so he also needs to be expansive, responsive, sensitive to what is coming next, which is why Aikido at demonstrations always looks unnaturally cooperative. 

We could say, that in terms of chapter 3, The aikidoka needs to harmonise both focus (Hadit) and receptiveness (Nuit), making no difference (RHK), resulting in nought (face down on the tatami).

Posted by: @shiva

Yes, here we find a slight difference from fixed dharana/dhyana. The basic Raja Yoga practices involve fixed, single images, while the Aikido practice is moving and dynamic. But it's really no different from the Raja Yoga of AC ...

"Let him move on to more complex images, including people,
who move and jump around and do strange things."
[a complex paraphrase]

As you know (but others might not, so I'll drop it here): Tohei, as well as some others such as Hiroshi Tada, was a member of the Tempukai. The Tempukai practiced Shin-shin toitsu do, which is Tempu Nakamura's stripped down interpretation of Raja Yoga. Tohei merged this with zen misogi practices and Aikido, so we need to be proficient at various grades of shin-shin toitsu do before we can grade for corresponding Aikido grades.

Again from the shokushu: "Just as a top spinning very rapidly becomes steady, so the most rapid movement results in calm". This is the unity of calm and action. In Aikido, we meditate on the one point (seki no itten), not as a static point, but one which is continually and rapidly moving. 

As far as I'm concerned, this one-point is the very definition of Hadit, unknowable, since it has no dimensions or coordinates (she shall be known, and I never). Aikido in this instance becomes a pretty effective vehicle for experiencing Hadit, cultivating Dhyana (Chan, Zen), at least when practiced in this way.

Posted by: @shiva

The techniques will not work properly, you will get cut, unless you enter a reasonable facsimile of wu-wei

Pretty much yes, I've had the bruises to prove it.

Posted by: @shiva

My wife entered the dojo with no prior experience. At the third lesson (the 3rd day), I watched her drop a huge, football-sized player. He had a surprised look on his face. Afterward, she said, "It worked!"  I also have many experiences with students who "accidentally" get it to work, early in the game. The "once in a while" phenomenon is not something one looks forward to in the higher degrees; it kicks in, from time to time, right from the beginning. The task is to get it working consistently ... every time - this is what the higher degrees are about.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen this phenomenon. One of the biggest problems facing mid-level students (around 3rd kyu) is letting go as a habitual position. At that point we have built up a repertoire, but not internalized much of it yes, so we tend to over-think. I still occasionally do it myself. We get caught trying to remember a technique (what was I doing next?) and the uke bonks us on the head whilst we are decidedly not in a state of wu-wei.

Our instructor told us, that the kyu grades are largely technical, although you do need to pass examinations in shin-shin toitsu do, but ki extension and the natural movement that arises from this is really the focus of shodan. After that the object is continual internalisation of ki principles in our Aikido. Once you've had that taste of Dhyana the ongoing task as you point out is to get it working consistently, so really, a shodan is only a beginner. 

In A.'.A.'. terms, this is like being a 5=6. Schools out, technical stuff is largely learned, some initial experience has been attained, now the task is to deepen the connection and let it lead you to emptiness through it's own development and fruition.


David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3074
 
Posted by: @shiva
 

In a state of being immune to insults and critique from others?

Yes, but only if one is dwelling in harmony with the insulters and the critics. One would need to apply the Aikido principles under discussion, to interpersonal business or debate. The odds favor one getting distracted by personal attacks (with razors or words) - in the early stages. The higher stages, usually reserved for old farts (the Japanese have an age factor that they employ), who appear to be undisturbed by anything.

Regardie's letter to Crowley i.e. "Dear Alice you are such a bitch" and then the imp Crowley's circulation of a letter about Regardie.   How far away from "non-dualism" was all that? 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1839
 

@Shiva
"Prajna-paramita" is not understanable by this lowly ingrate. Please define complex ferenghi (foreigner) terms in English for us dolts.

It's a long insider joke.
It's an exercise, in working the intelligence of the brain; to get it to understand it doesn't need to modify in order to directly see; and if it could learn to get out of the way the intelligence of the heart could emerge.

@pertinax
nice post


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5986
Topic starter  
Posted by: @pertinax

"The universe is a limitless circle with a limitless radius. This condensed becomes the one-point in the lower abdomen, which is the centre of the universe".

This saying was obviously stolen from Liber AL. Otherwise, where did Tohei get it (from)?

Posted by: @pertinax

not as a static point, but one which is continually and rapidly moving. 

This is the "moving point" style. It is taught in the beginning and it is practiced/demonstrated by young and middle-aged hotshots. The other syle is the "fixed" point. It is forceably demonstrated by the old guys. In this case, "forceably" means "forced into adopting and mastering the fixed point because one's body has acquired injuries and stiffnesses that will no longer sustain the moving point."

This is really advanced stuff. I have adopted the fixed point, because there's something off in the control of my injured (both) feet. I can still spin about, but every spin carries the risk of intense pain and maybe falling down. I have not "mastered" the fixed point, no way.

Posted by: @dom

Regardie's letter to Crowley i.e. "Dear Alice you are such a bitch" and then the imp Crowley's circulation of a letter about Regardie.   How far away from "non-dualism" was all that? 

26 miles across the sea.


Pertinax
(@pertinax)
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 81
 

@shiva

Posted by: @shiva

This saying was obviously stolen from Liber AL. Otherwise, where did Tohei get it (from)?

Must've fallen out of the ether I guess. Whether Tohei got it from Nakamura (who did travel extensively in the US and Europe), or whether it came directly from his own practice I couldn't say.

Posted by: @shiva

This is the "moving point" style. It is taught in the beginning and it is practiced/demonstrated by young and middle-aged hotshots. The other syle is the "fixed" point. It is forceably demonstrated by the old guys. In this case, "forceably" means "forced into adopting and mastering the fixed point because one's body has acquired injuries and stiffnesses that will no longer sustain the moving point."

This is really advanced stuff. I have adopted the fixed point, because there's something off in the control of my injured (both) feet. I can still spin about, but every spin carries the risk of intense pain and maybe falling down. I have not "mastered" the fixed point, no way.

I would say that whether or not the body is moving or not is immaterial. To be non-dual about it, the point is; that the point is neither moving nor not-moving.

We just use the model of infinitely small movement causing stability because it works. 

Aikido is movement in stillness/stillness in movement.

It's true that beginners are taught to make big movements, and that these refine with time so that masters, typically older girls and guys, appear not to move much. This continues up through shodan and nidan, after which it's understood that these things are well ingrained. Promotion beyond sandan in aikido is largely administrative.

It reminds me of a story from my first teacher. He was a young shodan in a karate class run my the legendary (in the UK anyway) Viv Nash. A student asked Viv: "Sensei, why do you teach hard but you yourself practice soft"?

This is one of the pitfalls of martial arts, if the young student tries to physically imitate the elderly teacher, including his spareness of step and small but powerful movements, he will move like an old man and never really develop his ki. So teacher in shin-shin toitsu aikido at least, aim to instill big movements to develop expansive ki, knowing that this will refine with time.

Reference Musashis' carpenters plane: You start off with wood larger than the finished item is expected to be, knowing that time will remove the excess.

As for your feet. I'm only 40 and my knees are the same, so in suwari-waza I need to take care, but it means that my aikido has to be even more precise.

 


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 
Posted by: @shiva

Yes, here we find a slight difference from fixed dharana/dhyana. The basic Raja Yoga practices involve fixed, single images, while the Aikido practice is moving and dynamic. But it's really no different from the Raja Yoga of AC ...

It's no different other than it emerged, organically, both after 1904 and with independent knowledge of Liber al Vel Legis. It's quite unique rather than Raja Yoga of Crowley because, as you mention, Crowley "borrowed" things from "other systems". This means that Crowley took "conversations" from other periods of history and put them together, the best tools that were around. These other things that Crowley put together did not emerge organically from within him which is how those radio signals from the star sirius you mention work, elegant non dual systems do not have "discrepancies" unless they are planted.

Aikido is fascinating because from the "historical dialectical perspective" of Liber Al Vel Legis, O'Sensei, as an initiate, resolved one of the most "impossible" dualities to resolve, physical conflict. I have yet to find one tradition in the world of all noble warrior arts, where the continual training is applying "her soft feet do not hurt the little flowers" as an actual measurable weapon! It does not seem possible at first, how that can work, or how it does work. 

Even Taiji Chuan and the soft Chinese schools have horribly disgusting martial applications (I remember asking my Taiji mentor, who was the "real deal" from China, how a certain technique was to work in a "fight", and he said "A quick snap of the neck, over now. Died. You understand? That fast!" and snapped his fingers.

Compare with O'Sensei's instruction, to hold your opponents head in your arms to your chest as if cradling your own baby, protecting them from harm. (<<<That's tantra practice right there).

Without Aikido, I am afraid we would have never been able to understand Liber al Vel Legis properly, so we thank O'Sensei for solving the most impossible puzzle for initiates for thousands of years...How do you transmute War into Love? 

And what were the historical conversations influencing O'Sensei?

By the age of 8 years old he was already initiated into esoteric Buddhism in Japan. Later and during his Aikido awakenings, he was an initiate of a very esoteric nature shamanic religion Ōmoto-kyō.

He was the undefeated martial artist in Japan at the same time the "historical" dialectic put Japan as the most fierce, almost, military in the world, as in at their peak of war power.

And then Japan "suffered the ruins", the runes of their historical conversations were misinterpreted.

Japan's defeat was an impact on their own historical dialectic that changed their collective conversation forever.

There is a lot to appreciate there! Which is the only thing the radio signal from Sirius Galactic Center ever says really, hehe.

Can I take what I learn from Liber al Vel Legis then and "project" it onto Aikido and can I take what I learn from Aikido and then project that onto Liber al Vel Legis?

YES! Paste the sheets together!

Posted by: @shiva

"Prajna-paramita" is not understanable by this lowly ingrate. Please define complex ferenghi (foreigner) terms in English for us dolts. I mean, I could go look it up on the Borg, but the burden of translation is on the poster, according to The Guidelines, which speak of the  "posting in English" requirement.

An honor! Thank you! 

Here is a "list" that leads to both nothing, and everything 🙂

  • Prajna Paramita is the absolute pure state, the experience of the Clear Light, Sunyata.
  • To understand, there is the "actual" state of this experience, and then there is a "concept" about this experience that is definitive, and then there are an infinite number of provisional concepts about this experience, and that the pure state is not "on or off" but fades in or out in degrees. How many degrees? an infinite number of them.
  • It is possible to be "a little bit" in the clear light. (all prophets true, save they only understand a little bit!).
  • Ex: The first "bhumi" of the Bodhisattva (10 in all, wondering if they match your tree?) is the first realization of "a little bit" of the truth.
  • And the first Bhumi is called something like "the great joy, the great happiness" because the experience of just seeing it "a little bit" can put you to absolute tears of joy that will seem to flow forever.
  • We don't need to do anything to attain it at all.
  • It is our natural state.
  • Every time we sneeze, we get to experience it for half a second. When we have orgasms, we experience it for a brief second. 
  • We don't have the experience of the pure state now not because it is hard to obtain, but because we have forgotten how to recognize it, and thus, have no "muscles" to pick it up with.
  • Liber al Vel Legis gives us soooooo many tools to work those muscles, so we can learn to pick it up a bit more and more.
  • Every time we change a yes or no, into a maybe, is a tiny piece of this light!
  • Every duality that exists, therefore, is an opportunity to resolve, harmonize, and see a little bit more of this light!
  • How to make the mind understand a little bit at first, Nuit teaches us.
  • "What is Sunyata? What is the self? What is this mystery?" and Nuit says, "Hey, that is like the infinite number line asking "How much am I?"
  • Come to understand a little!
  • The word for this state of being is Tathata, or "suchness", and you can carry it with you everywhere!

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 

I think the person in this forum I am the most suspicious of being in the mix with the Secret Chiefs is Dom.

This is not the first time he has come into the conversation at random with the perfect comment or question that is perfectly in harmony with both my inner life and where the conversation needs to go next, and he does this with one or two sentences!

Such brevity, I have much to learn from him, so much ranting and raving on my end, so much complexity in comparison

Posted by: @dom

Regardie's letter to Crowley i.e. "Dear Alice you are such a bitch" and then the imp Crowley's circulation of a letter about Regardie.   How far away from "non-dualism" was all that? 

PERFECT EXAMPLE!

  • The text "Alice, you are such a bitch" is empty of any meaning.
  • When two or more friends joke and kid and make each other laugh, sometimes the "pure state" of the text hides the underlying humor, the leaping laughter, unless you are THEM!

 

Type "Yo momma" jokes into YouTube, and take your fill of love!

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5986
Topic starter  
Posted by: @pertinax

I would say that whether or not the body is moving or not is immaterial. To be non-dual about it, the point is; that the point is neither moving nor not-moving.

This is true. Even in the so-called "fixed point" style, all movement of the arms (which project the ki) must (properly) begin in the hara (one-point). The legs appear to be motionless, or a slight shifting may be detected.

Posted by: @pertinax

Promotion beyond sandan in aikido is largely administrative.

Note that sandan is 3rd degree black belt.

This reminds me of an olde saying: "Everyone is entitled to the III*. Admittance to the IV* is by invitation only."

Posted by: @pertinax

As for your feet. I'm only 40 and my knees are the same

Yeah, we're screwed up in this physical vehicle degeneration syndrome. In order to illustrate the point, with absolutely no white-washing, I refer any read to a certain short video. The lat, long, set of clips was taken at Nishiyama's last class. He demonstrates the fixed point with no leg movement because he can hardly walk. Watch him hardly walk, yet deflect powerful punches. See it at ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA7y8dnHpto

Also, in order to show how this Aikido stuff is supposed to be done (properly), I will direct you to a short video, recently presented to me by Pertinax, of a 3rd dan and a 4th dan doing their stuff, apparently after class, in the dojo that he attends.

The guy without a black hakama (looks like a skirt, but really is a pair of very loose pants with two legs) is the 4th 4th dan instructor - who has apparently already removed his hakama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VY80gfsNR8

It should be remembered that all the Japanese Arts end in -do (Aikido, Judo, Karatedo, Kendo (sword),Kyudo (bow), etc, plus Flower-arranging-do, Zendo, and other types of -do. This -do suffix in Chinese is Tao. It means "the way" in China, Japan, England or Colorado.

The Zen guys are up-front about where the way leads. The other  -do are less transparent, offering some jutsu (technique), but everyone in Japan knows that people who practice a -do are serious about the same thing, which we are calling non-dual.

There is a recommendation, not an absolute requirement, in the A.'.A.'. curriculum, that the aspirant engage in some sport, and it should be the one calculated to put and keep the physical body in its best operating condition. Crowley obviously picked mountain-climbing. A number of Thelemites have embraced Aikido. It would be my first recommendation to people under 30 or 35, or so.

 


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 
Posted by: @pertinax

Back when I started formally practicing Aikido (I'd had some exposure 10 years previously from my Tai chi instructor), I was at the time  Probationer of the A.'.A.'.. I recall being sat in the dojo on a Sunday morning, the instructor read, as we always do, from the shokushu (Toheis book of 'ki sayings'): "The universe is a limitless circle with a limitless radius. This condensed becomes the one-point in the lower abdomen, which is the centre of the universe".

You could say I knew at that point I'd come to the right place.

Indeed! I would have felt the same!

I truly would love to find the Tohei School, I have not had the fortune yet to study this style, which my understanding is the most esoteric of the styles. Most of my teachers have been more focused on the martial aspects, the physical.

This worked out well for me because, like you, I already had Taiji training as well as Nei Kung, so internally I was applying one inner school and its principles and then training them in Aikido, or "paste the sheets" as Chp3 would suggest and to keep this Aikido discussion on topic, hehe

Posted by: @pertinax

We could say, that in terms of chapter 3, The aikidoka needs to harmonise both focus (Hadit) and receptiveness (Nuit), making no difference (RHK), resulting in nought (face down on the tatami).

AiKi Kai!

I wish you would think of Liber al a little bit more again! Everything you describe is how I feel about the RHK and Aikido, the tantra of war!

I enjoy that you brought that into the "ternary" form, which O'Sensei does quite often, stating the "secrets" to understanding Aikido are in three shapes, the circle, triangle, and square,  and all Aikido movements are in three techniques "tai-no-henko, morotedori-kokyuho, and suwariwaza-kokyuho"

Are you no longer in the AA? If not what keeps you lurking?

Posted by: @pertinax

Tohei merged this with zen misogi practices and Aikido, so we need to be proficient at various grades of shin-shin toitsu do before we can grade for corresponding Aikido grades.

ah-ha! I was not aware of this! 

All of the "historical dialectics" of Japanese war arts, many schools, all had top students go and train with O'Sensei. So many more branches we've yet to even learn about. I suspect what O'Sensei was doing was the equivalent of the "AA" for Japanese war arts, Aikido was the "completion" stage, like the Dzokden, for all of them to understand the pure nature and pure state of their craft.

Posted by: @pertinax

In A.'.A.'. terms, this is like being a 5=6. Schools out, technical stuff is largely learned, some initial experience has been attained, now the task is to deepen the connection and let it lead you to emptiness through it's own development and fruition.

I wanna peak into the Aikido 8=1 grade 😀 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 

I will say that "AiKi" in Aikido, the meaning, is identical to the "spirit" of Nuit, or to give this an uninspired name, a "universal harmony spirit" that can be invoked 🙂

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 
Posted by: @shiva

There is a recommendation, not an absolute requirement, in the A.'.A.'. curriculum, that the aspirant engage in some sport, and it should be the one calculated to put and keep the physical body in its best operating condition. Crowley obviously picked mountain-climbing. A number of Thelemites have embraced Aikido. It would be my first recommendation to people under 30 or 35, or so.

Interesting, maybe I was in the AA and did not realize it at the time, hehe. Kidding maybe not kidding.

I too was told something similar, to understand x – go practice martial arts specifically as your "yoga".

Funny thing, every "stage" I was learning in never seemed like a "course" that was offered from this very very small supposed "magical brotherhood" that took me under his wing when I was a young nut. Every stage was "here is what you should learn next, and go there to learn it" sending me to different schools to study the supposed "grade". It was that plus lots of conversations and a few initiation psychedelic experiences. Where was the order? I asked. Where are the grades? Where is the magick? I never got answers to those things, and eventually thought they were just flying by the seat of their pants and didn't have their shit together, and left the "order".

But looking back, that sent me off on some pretty important directions!

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 
Posted by: @shiva

This saying was obviously stolen from Liber AL. Otherwise, where did Tohei get it (from)?

 

In the view I am relaying, Liber Al Vel Legis is the "meta" discussion for the new aeon, a summary of all historical discussions from the past condensed into a final global discussion, a predictor of where the conversations will be headed and what they will be resolving.

So, in this view, Tohei, got it from his teacher, and his teacher got it from his teacher, and each teacher added a little bit to each discussion, or maybe lost a piece of each discussion, but we all get it from the 1 before us, and we are all the 1 to get it, and there will always be 1 after us

1,1,1...

What happens when you bring all the "children" (the conclusions of various "discussions" happening) together?

Chp 3

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 

also, I just want to make sure we are all on the same "page" now about duality and non-duality in terms of the arts magick, tantra, alchemy, psychology.

Duality = the Opposites, separate

Non-Duality = The opposites, harmonized.

Duality is 2 , the union is 1, the total is 3 if we are counting, but we are not counting we are uniting so therefore 0=2!

This makes 3 the magick number of all magickal, tantric, alchemical systems, following this application.

So, is Thelema a non dual path? Or is there just a "little bit" of non-duality to be discovered in it?

Also, good night!

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5986
Topic starter  
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

to give this an uninspired name, a "universal harmony spirit" that can be invoked

It is similar to telepathy, along those same lines. The idea is presented in karate, early on, that one "may" eventually learn to sense movements (punches, kicks, petrol bombs) before any movement takes place. Tohei demonstrated this in the Sino-Japanese war by bathing in a river every morning ... with the enemy on the other side. He would suddenly move, and a bullet would hit the water where he had been standing.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

In the view I am relaying, Liber Al Vel Legis is the "meta" discussion for the new aeon, a summary of all historical discussions from the past condensed into a final global discussion, a predictor of where the conversations will be headed and what they will be resolving.

I will refer you to a psychiatrist, if you like.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

and there will always be 1 after us

Not if we "fail of an heir."

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

What happens when you bring all the "children" (the conclusions of various "discussions" happening) together?

I dunno, but in Oriental Medicine, if you mix all the herbs together, nothing happens. I am producing that universal formula now. Instant Nothing ... with a 30-minute delay.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Non-Duality = The opposites, harmonized.

Even if harmonized, they are still two units ... just different. I would suggest "synthesized." No residue, no remainder. No sense or sign of duality.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

So, is Thelema a non dual path?

In the beginning, one studies yoga and banishing. Mystical/Magical. Yeah, that's pretty dual.

In the middle (ages), there's the Aspirant and there's the Angel. Still pretty dual.

But in the end, O.M. tells us that the 10=1 has resolved the three qualities (being; not-being; becoming), which resolves three into one (it's Kether, you know) and simultaneously confirms your affirmation. It's a matter of triplicity, unity, or nada (no more), not duality.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Also, good night!

Congratulations. This [^] quote ends your fifth post in a row.

 


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 
 
Just as I thought I would head off to sleep, you save the best for this late at night?
by: @shiva

I will refer you to a psychiatrist, if you like.

 

Finally! I was wondering how long it would take for the theme of the historical dialectic in Liber al Vel Legis to get challenged! Maybe if you said this a few days ago I would not have posted so much, hehe.

but unfortunately, telling someone they are crazy because they are presenting an idea to you that is outside of your current reach isnt really helpful.

What is helpful is if you can show said crazy person where they are making contradictions.

That's what happen when we do get a little nuts. We make continual contradictions.

That's why i am posting this, to see where their may be contradictions that I cannot see, or errors that I am making that I cannot see as well.

Posted by: @shiva

I dunno, but in Oriental Medicine, if you mix all the herbs together, nothing happens. I am producing that universal formula now. Instant Nothing ... with a 30-minute delay.

 

The "children" of the new aeon do not refer to herbs in a mixture, as mentioned, in this interpretation they refer to those holding any kind of lineage around any kind of discussion that has reached its apex in history up to 1904.

Posted by: @shiva

Even if harmonized, they are still two units ... just different. I would suggest "synthesized." No residue, no remainder. No sense or sign of duality.

 

They could be a gazillion units, when the opposites are in a state of harmony, they function as one whole system. Non duality refers to whole system dynamics. Duality refers to the smaller parts operating in the whole system. Its a challenge to obtain a whole system view.

Posted by: @shiva

Congratulations. This [^] quote ends your fifth post in a row.

 

whats the bother there, or are you kidding? I responded to four different posts, different points. Is that not okay either? I guess I am unsure the policy here. I hope you're okay and not too shaken up over it.

Good night!

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Pertinax
(@pertinax)
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 81
 

@shiva

Posted by: @shiva

The lat, long, set of clips was taken at Nishiyama's last class. He demonstrates the fixed point with no leg movement because he can hardly walk. Watch him hardly walk, yet deflect powerful punches. See it at ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA7y8dnHpto

 

You do get the impression of solidity there, the timing is excellent, which I suppose it has to be to compensate for not being able to get out of the way.

Posted by: @shiva

Pertinax, of a 3rd dan and a 4th dan doing their stuff, apparently after class, in the dojo that he attends.

The guy without a black hakama (looks like a skirt, but really is a pair of very loose pants with two legs) is the 4th 4th dan instructor - who has apparently already removed his hakama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VY80gfsNR8

The guy in the Hakama is actually a shodan (1st dan), and a recent one at that, me.

Posted by: @shiva

There is a recommendation, not an absolute requirement, in the A.'.A.'. curriculum, that the aspirant engage in some sport, and it should be the one calculated to put and keep the physical body in its best operating condition.

I certainly recommend the same, Aikido is ideal I think, particularly Shin-shin toitsu style, but each to their own. I find it hard to imagine Crowley having the humility required if I'm honest, given his tendency to brag regarding his mountaineering and chess exploits I doubt he'd have tolerated having somebody else at the top.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

I enjoy that you brought that into the "ternary" form, which O'Sensei does quite often, stating the "secrets" to understanding Aikido are in three shapes, the circle, triangle, and square,  and all Aikido movements are in three techniques "tai-no-henko, morotedori-kokyuho, and suwariwaza-kokyuho"

We often joke that in Aikido there are two directions, and they are both down.

Are you no longer in the AA? If not what keeps you lurking?

I suppose you could say I'm a post-Thelemite at this point. I didn't leave, I just got to the point where Liber al is just one book among many, but like Shiva says, I stick with the A.'.A.'. curriculum because it works. My path these days is much more one of Zen and aikido, but like anyone who's been on the road a while, I've worn many hats.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56 I will say that "AiKi" in Aikido, the meaning, is identical to the "spirit" of Nuit, or to give this an uninspired name, a "universal harmony spirit" that can be invoked

My preferred translation of Aikido, is the way of harmonising the spirit. We could equate Nuit with the ki of the universe and probably only run into superficial complications due to use of language. The English word 'spirit' works well enough in the right company, but has too much baggage and tend to imply things not intended by the original.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

In the view I am relaying, Liber Al Vel Legis is the "meta" discussion for the new aeon, a summary of all historical discussions from the past condensed into a final global discussion, a predictor of where the conversations will be headed and what they will be resolving.

So, in this view, Tohei, got it from his teacher, and his teacher got it from his teacher, and each teacher added a little bit to each discussion, or maybe lost a piece of each discussion, but we all get it from the 1 before us, and we are all the 1 to get it, and there will always be 1 after us

That's the way it's always been. From Sokaku Takeda, to Ueshiba, to Tohei Koichi and now to Tohei Shinichi, who's vision differs from his fathers. Each borrowed something, and brought something else to the table. The A.'.A.'. is no different with it's lineages. In fact, the similarity is striking.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

What happens when you bring all the "children" (the conclusions of various "discussions" happening) together?

Chp 3

Then we fight (as brothers) about who's got the correct interpretation 😉


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 

Then we fight (as brothers) about who's got the correct interpretation😉

And if we "fight" in Thelema about Liber al Vel Legis, or about anything really, like we do Aikido, in a non-dual manner, that means we are collaborating through the tension, and if we put all of these ideas together, combine all of the thesis and antithesis of each, "paste the sheets together", that process is a group alchemy, collaborative, producing a new unity, a new evolved idea 🙂

And to all it shall seem beautiful, its enemies who say not so are mere liars.

 

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 

Dear  Lashtal Community,

I am sensing my presence and the sharing of all of this is ruffling a few feathers, especially with concerns that, my goodness, a post count, may spell "trouble" for the forum, or perhaps, me –as one user has mentioned the word "manic" in relationship to me sharing and another with a compassionate suggestion to "see a psychiatrist".

Understanding the mystery of the letters, the actual state of psychological projections, the mirror of text and meaning, I know what that actually means is some readers of "non-duality and thelema" are afraid for their own sanity working through non-duality and thelema!

And I am compassionate about that.

But don't be upset with me!

Blame Crowley, he was the one who made severe the ordeals, and out of compassion for the Thelemic community, I am here to say it is not that hard, and not that scary.

I have no use for interpreting Liber al Vel Legis as a historical dialectic in my personal life.

Zero.

The formula I am relaying I already have applied in the most practical ways in my real life, and that application has zero to do with thelema, Crowley, the occult, or any of this rubbish.

I am not interested in writing a book, starting a blog, any of that.

In my real life, I am responsible for designing whole system architectures, using technology and media, that are applicable in finance and large scale consensus view processes. 

This formula I am relying is not a hunch, or a manic episode (not bipolar, fyi), it is a "design principle" that I have applied, and have had vetted by mathematicians, economists, neuroscientists, even teenagers, and all "get it", none are esoteric occultists, nor need to be.

Literally, success is my proof!

What's more, my own "a-ha!" with this understanding was not directly related to liber al vel legis at all.

However, during that very special time in my life, I was "nudged", so to speak, to pick up Liber al Vel Legis and read it, and when I did, I found that it was easy to "read" in the meta language of the book what I was already experiencing, which kinda scared me at the time, because why should I expect that?

That was 20 years ago, I always assumed that this insight was common in Thelema, and since I've no interest in occult circles or interests, I never shared it because, who cares?

So I already have my "certainty, not faith" about all of this, and I don't need "Liber al vel legis and the historical dialectic", I don't have time for it in my life, yet it needs to be shared!

If I do not share it, I will lose it, and that was a hard lesson to learn.

Since I have no use for it, I figure some Thelemites would, and since coming here I know that at least two members of the community, @MichaelStaley and @hadgigegenraum, do come to "understand a little", with Hadgigegenraum even expressing an experience of "synchronicity" within this conversation, as was I.

And that is what happens when brothers paste the sheets together, the experience of synchronicity.

I had no idea that Crowley and Hegel's dialectic were related in some literature somewhere! That was an amazing discovery, thank you for that Hadgigegenraum!

So, I share this for the internet, for the sake that some Thelemites who are approaching non-duality will find it of some use. 

This means that I am going to post again, right after this one, on another insight into Sunyata in Liber al vel Legis, another way at arriving at non-duality.

And if it "appears" like I am posting too much in a row, and not keeping it neat with just one response, maybe consider I am breaking all of this up until little "bits", posts, so it is EASIER to read, not more difficult for the forum.

So when you see this next post or two, don't worry about me, don't worry about the posts ruining the "structure" of the forum rules, either read it with interest on non-duality, or don't!

Perhaps, just perhaps, all of this text I am writing, is empty of any real meaning, and the concept you have in your mind while reading this text is the very thing that this text is relating to, communicating with.

And..have fun! Its not hard, really. 

Nothing to be scared about.

Love

SW

 

 

 

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 

Hadit, Chapter 2,  introduces a new way to arrive at sunyata, emptiness of self, through language. 

While Nuit’s language to arrive at Sunyata is simple, clear, direct, perfectly accurate in the same sense that mathematics is elegant, Hadit’s written voice is, predictably even, the exact opposite of this approach.

Hadit “challenges” the reader in Chapter 2, through conversation with Nuit, everything she just informed us of in Chapter 1, especially “how to” read the text itself, as empty of all meaning.

Text, Nuit tells us, is just text!

Hadit tells us text is just text, and meaning is meaning, and now Hadit is going to mix those things up for us, as a sport, because meaning itself is also empty!

Hadit tests us through riddles, puns, sometimes even devious methods that rely on our natural projections onto the text itself. 

Hadit is a trickster, while Nuit’s soft feet do not hurt the little flowers, Hadit is vigilant in the “tough love” sense, in showing us how our ideas about self and other are the cause of all of our suffering, and we will likely experience that suffering while projecting on to the text, unless we can keep the text empty of all meaning, like the self.

Nuit and Hadit, it should be noted, are having a conversation with each other. 

This relates that the dialogue between these two viewpoints, Nuit and Hadit, 1 and 2, is eternal and happening right now in each of us and a dialectic in the traditional sense.

And to have a conversation with each other, Nuit and Hadit, they need a vehicle. 

That vehicle is the scribe Crowley, who is another viewpoint in this “tantra”, meaning that one tantra within Liber al Vel Legis is to identify with the “scribe” in the text itself, each of us to through creative imagination, visualize ourselves, in real time, receiving these texts from Aiwass, while we practice, the best we can, viewing all the text as empty, devoid of any real meaning.

And that is what Hadit is going to challenge us on exactly.

And in the first four lines of Chapter 2, Hadit is not only telling us how he communicates with us, but he gives us the most compassionate of all of his riddles, and if we can glean an “aha” here, the rest of the chapter is much easier!

Nu! the hiding of Hadit.

Come! all ye, and learn the secret that hath not yet been revealed. I, Hadit, am the complement of Nu, my bride. I am not extended, and Khabs is the name of my House.

In the sphere I am everywhere the centre, as she, the circumference, is nowhere found.

Yet she shall be known & I never.

Right away Hadit introduces the concept of “mystery” to Sunyata, a “new word” or new view, where Hadit, the self, is the eternal mystery, eternally unknowable.

For the Western mind, this “great mystery” reflects the western view of Sunyata as it has played out in western religious texts.

In the west, from a literary perspective, the word “mystery” is the western “Tao”, for the great mystery is both true and false, at once.

Mystery, therefore, is a “provisional” view, or provisional teaching on arriving at Sunyata and the Mystery of letters.

While all the lines in Chapter 2 tease this out in various and myriad ways, the big takeaway from Chapter 2 is a rather elaborate and incredibly “funny” joke and riddle.

This riddle has certainly perplexed any reader of Chapter 2, and I find it very intriguing that Crowley in his writings “teased” this joke narratively, for this joke plays into the “myths” and stories of Thelema and Crowley, and, somewhat, all of us. 

This is one of the reasons I refer to Crowley as the first “viral” marketer, all of the discrepancies, all of the wild and over the top claims, bravado, mayhem, are really what is keeping Crowleyanity alive, and while this text claims that Crowley would never know, ever, I am deeply suspicious that he did know because this is classic Crowley humor and set up, at least in my view and how I view Crowley’s humor.

  1. 4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y X 24 89 R P S T O V A L. What meaneth this, o prophet? Thou knowest not; nor shalt thou know ever. There cometh one to follow thee: he shall expound it. But remember, o chose none, to be me; to follow the love of Nu in the star-lit heaven; to look forth upon men, to tell them this glad word.

What this “text” means is mystery, the glad word of arriving at Sunyata. I, nor you, nor anyone will ever know what the hell that text means!

What Nuit shows us is that all text is empty, all text is sunyata, and Hadit  gives us the “narrative” view of Sunyata in response.

I 100% am not claiming any “title” of the one who comes after Crowley other than I was born much later than him as were billions of people, and that is part of the big joke in Chapter 2, which Crowley encouraged, I believe, as one of the “ordeals”.

While I may be “1” to get it, I am just “1” after the other person who gets it and “1” before the next person, 1, 1, 1. 

It should not be assumed that I am claiming the first to get it after Crowley, either. 

I am one of many.

It is impossible to get a big ego, a false idea about how grand a discovery is, when you realize the joke, everyone either gets it now or will eventually get it. 

Being just “1” in an infinite number of sentient beings who arrive at Sunyata and will continue to arrive at Sunyata, big and small, to understand a “little”, and come to lay in her bosom!

A significant number of people in the 20th Century came to this a-ha already.

Likely, most reading this have, in some way, also arrived at this in another manner.

Also, cheers 🙂

 

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 
Posted by: @pertinax

That's the way it's always been. From Sokaku Takeda, to Ueshiba, to Tohei Koichi and now to Tohei Shinichi, who's vision differs from his fathers. Each borrowed something, and brought something else to the table. The A.'.A.'. is no different with it's lineages. In fact, the similarity is striking.

This is what I mean, and Hegel meant, by the "historical" dialectic, and it applies to all lineages, even lineages of math and science!

 

We often joke that in Aikido there are two directions, and they are both down.

Perhaps instead of joking, the aikidokas should have realized that O'Sensei was showing TWO directions as well, except one was heaven, and the other earth.

As brothers fight ye!

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5986
Topic starter  
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

but unfortunately, telling someone they are crazy

I did not tell you that you are crazy. I offered to refer you to a mental authority who might write a note to a judge saying you are crazy and need rest (and downer-type drugs) in some sanctuary.

On the other foot, You have written so much stuff in so many words that it becomes amusing and I slip off into dry humor. So dry, in fact, that many readers cannot tell the difference between Shiva the Destroyer and Krishna the Prankster (what a horrible brat that Krishna was, letting all those cows go and stealing that butter).

When I, as Shiva the Cosmic Physician, detect real craziness, my approach is different. But forget that. This morning, at least, I officially declare that you are not dangerous to others ... but perhaps dangerous to your online avatar, who may get killed dead for serial posting Blog rants. However, with proper care, this obsession may be curable.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

That's what happen when we do get a little nuts. We make continual contradictions.

Yes, and it's irritating. I have stated that the only cure is "Stop the Mind." Ignant has gone deeper and discovered that one only needs to "Turn off the Talking part of the Brain," because there is always that which remains. In this case, there is more to the Mind than the internal dialog, and it (the "more" is supra-rational, so sometimes people say crazy (non-logical) things.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

The "children" of the new aeon do not refer to herbs in a mixture

Herbs ("weeds" in Spanish) are people too! 

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

whats the bother there, or are you kidding?

The Guidelines specifically prohibit serial posting. Usually, after a warning or two, the runners-on get the point, and they learn to condense their thoughts, using the single-post method (sometimes a 2nd post pops up. People who run-on are filibustering, and it is not (theoretically) allowed. People who run-on used to be reminded that LAShTAL has/had a section where people can Blog - I don't know if that Section still exists. I don't think people go there except to talk to themselves. I am not, in this case, the entire paragraph, kidding about anything.

But, being a chronic serial poster, you may only discover the Truth when the Moderator (peace and bessings be upon him and his name) steps in and warns you to knock it off. He lets us try to get serialists under control, but eventually he comes. You may thing of him as The Coming One whenever you post three times in a row.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

I responded to four different posts, different points. Is that not okay either?

Usually, we cram it all into one post. This is specifically done in order to avoid the No Serial Posting rule. It is obvious that you are cleanly meeting point by point in a post by post method. Technically, you are serial posting. I used to issue the warning after someone made three consecutive posts. Then somebody got all twisted up, making excuses and bemoaning their fate. So I publicly announced that I would exercise control, and my reminders would come only after four consecutives.

This will be my last word on the subject. Feel free to experiment. See how much you can get away with before The Coming One comes.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

I hope you're okay and not too shaken up over it.

This is, perhaps, the most common reminder that needs to be reminded to new folks. It's just routine. No shakin' goin' ooon.

Posted by: @pertinax

The guy in the Hakama is actually a shodan (1st dan), and a recent one at that, me.

I screwed up the grammar. I did not mean to promote you to sandan (3rd). I sought to conceal you, even behind a mask (LAShTAL is a serious and secret Order?). Now it's all out ... and, frankly, I find it hard to see any difference between what he is doing and what you are doing (in another video, not posted).

Posted by: @pertinax

I doubt he'd have tolerated having somebody else at the top.

We had some guys, a few, in karate, who thought they would show the top dog a trick. The ended up on the floor with "mouth parts" and blood scattered around them. I am speaking literally. These degrees are very real on the physical plane.

Posted by: @pertinax

Liber al is just one book among many

This is the defining definition of a post-Thelemic orientation.

For Christ's, Crowley's, and Choronzon's sake, one is supposed to get their own Book of Their Own Law at Tiphareth. It may not be a text, but it will be a complex thought-form, specifically tailored to match one's karmic pattern. The Inner Order is Universal, and specific theologies begin to blend into any and all other systems ... all in accordance with attaining to an understanding of the one invisible Order that is just the unadorned spectrum of consciousness.

Thelema is not forsaken or forsworn. If anyone builds up their core mind-pattern via the Tree and Libers of the A.'.A.'. Outer Order (cleverly disguised under the initials "G.D."), there is no trouble in seeing the three higher subplanes (of 7) of the mental plane as Chesed, Geburah, and Tiphareth. 

Posted by: @pertinax

My preferred translation of Aikido, is the way of harmonising the spirit

An interesting point is that Ki and Shen are both translated as "Spirit." But, at least in the Chines Med Dept, Shen really means "consciousness." Slipping thisover into Aiki, we get "harmony of consciousness." It's just a matter of words, but practically speaking, if one took a swing at Tohei, one simply lost control of their consciousness, not knowing what happened before they regained control their consciousness ... twelve feet away, or lying on the mat.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

I am sensing my presence and the sharing of all of this is ruffling a few feathers

As I said, it's a common situation. Let me tell you why some of us brethren take an anal view of certain practices ...

About ten years ago, this place was buzzing and people were breaking The Guidelines (Rules, Law, Scripture) all over the place. The Owner and Moderator was besieged with overload. He publickly announced that it was too much and he deputized us to maintain order.

He did not deputize us by name, but anyone who read it got the badge. So we flash it from time to time, as needed. Then the offender says, "Well, what makes you so fucking important, Mister Policeman?"  This: We have to power over life and death or course correction. We only have a button to push that allows us to communicate violations to the Moderator. I think I have pushed that button 4 times in the past ten years. Once it was ignored (but watched and later resulted in death - the closing of the account). Twice it brought a warning. Once it seemed to result in spontaneous combustion of the account.

Now you, SWC56, present a unique situation. You see, these other 4, and many more (not involving myself), were all Trolls!  They committed Serial Posting, an offense in itself, but their content was dreadful (curses, potty-mouth words, advocation of illegal drugs, extreme egomania with flourishes, that sort of thing.

But you are not so contaminated and I don't think anyone considers you a Troll. You are bringing a lot of serious activity into a forum hall that was rather quiet. So nobody's pushing the Geburah Button on you.

At this point it is/was my intention to quote scripture, so I could say Says so in the Scriptures, and I went to copy a line from The Holy Guidelines ... but I couldn't find them. I searched the Menus and used "Find" [Guidelines] on the Home Page and the Forum Page. Nada. Perfect Equilibrium.

Anyway, serial posting is a violation. If you wish to break up your single, authorized, response post into points or participants, you are in violation, but nobody will care enough to button-hole you. It would be like reporting your friend to the police for having a joint. So you proceed at your own yama-niyama.

Does anybody know where The Lost Guidelines can be found? I'll grant a third degree to anyone who can find The Lost Word(s).

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

sunyata

Please define this term. It is not used much (if at all) around here.

 

 


Pertinax
(@pertinax)
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 81
 

@sangewanchuck56

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

And if we "fight" in Thelema about Liber al Vel Legis, or about anything really, like we do Aikido, in a non-dual manner, that means we are collaborating through the tension, and if we put all of these ideas together, combine all of the thesis and antithesis of each, "paste the sheets together", that process is a group alchemy, collaborative, producing a new unity, a new evolved idea 🙂

Sometimes it's collaboration through tension. At other times it's just egos butting heads in the lower planes, more often than not. You can tell by the result usually, somebody ends up spitting their dummy out of the pram and resorting to personal attacks. Practicing non-duality on the intellectual plane is probably the toughest balancing act I can think of.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

I am sensing my presence and the sharing of all of this is ruffling a few feathers,

I honestly hadn't noticed this. You seemed to be coming from a slightly different angle, in some ways similar to my own, hence my responding. What I was sensing more than anything is a genuine desire to learn and share your ideas not out of egotism, but out of enthusiasm, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Perhaps instead of joking, the aikidokas should have realized that O'Sensei was showing TWO directions as well, except one was heaven, and the other earth.

I see you don't get the joke 😉 Back to the dojo until it clicks.

Posted by: @shiva

I screwed up the grammar. I did not mean to promote you to sandan (3rd). I sought to conceal you, even behind a mask (LAShTAL is a serious and secret Order?). Now it's all out ... and, frankly, I find it hard to see any difference between what he is doing and what you are doing (in another video, not posted).

Well the cat is out of the bag, but I figure the chances of it being used against me, while possible, are minimal.

The thing I notice with shin-shin toitsu aikido is that from the outside it's 'very' hard to see what's going on internally. With the aikikai style, at least it's modern incarnation, you get a real physical sense of power. Shin-shin toitsu style is much more hidden, because it leads ki much more than leading the body, so it appears softer. 

You would really notice the difference if a) you practiced with us both, or b) you watched an extended demonstration, where I would run out of new techniques more quickly. 

Incidentally, I was talking to a friend yesterday about the differences in the dan grades. 1st dan is largely about having the basic techniques down, and having big, expansive movements with reasonable ki development. 2nd dan is largely about rhythm on top of that, as well as some new sets of techniques, roughly double the requirement for 1st dan. 3rd dan is about all of this, plus being able to pull it out of the bag at a seconds notice and recover the flow of ki much more quickly. SMall increments to write about, but the distance between the dan grades is much wider than between the kyu grades.

Posted by: @shiva

This is the defining definition of a post-Thelemic orientation.

For Christ's, Crowley's, and Choronzon's sake, one is supposed to get their own Book of Their Own Law at Tiphareth. It may not be a text, but it will be a complex thought-form, specifically tailored to match one's karmic pattern. The Inner Order is Universal, and specific theologies begin to blend into any and all other systems ... all in accordance with attaining to an understanding of the one invisible Order that is just the unadorned spectrum of consciousness.

This certainly matches my experience. Remembering that you have your own 'book', is the tough part. It's easy to go back to the apron-strings of a known book or body of thought at the first sign of trouble. I suppose this is why a 6=5 is supposed to exercise self-reliance.

Posted by: @shiva

An interesting point is that Ki and Shen are both translated as "Spirit." But, at least in the Chines Med Dept, Shen really means "consciousness." Slipping thisover into Aiki, we get "harmony of consciousness." It's just a matter of words, but practically speaking, if one took a swing at Tohei, one simply lost control of their consciousness, not knowing what happened before they regained control their consciousness ... twelve feet away, or lying on the mat.

I have occasionally had conversations with people, even aikidoka, who don't believe in ki. This to me is like saying you don't believe in consciousness, or don't believe you even exist. I suspect this is because people assume it's something like the force.

I can corroborate what you say about Toheis' effects on people, at least third hand being thrown by people who really knew what they were doing. It has of course been faked, overly willing ukemi not being able to tell the difference between helping a beginner understand a movement by going along with it, and the feeling of actually being thrown by their ki. As alluded to, the effect is akin to being thrown by a puff of air, it's exhilarating and you usually land face down but laughing, it actually feels good if you can take sufficient ukemi to avoid planting your teeth in the mat.

 


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5986
Topic starter  
Posted by: @pertinax

Practicing non-duality on the intellectual plane is probably the toughest balancing act I can think of.

Thank you. I view this statement to be in harmony with my constant assertion that

The Battle is on the Causal Plane
(Higher Mind, Abstract Mind, Soul)

We see war and revolt breaking out all over the physical plane, emotions (Yesod) are loudly expressed, certain pronunciations of the name of God are disputed, some cultures hate other cultures 'cause they were taught to do so as children. But the core friction is found upon the causal plane. Yeah, it's the work of the Inner Order, because ...

As a man thinks in his heart, so shall it be.

In his heart, usually refers to (really) unconscious programming, karma, and the resolution of the opposites so generated. It is usually applied internally, to one's own mind, before it (what a man thinks in his heart) is released upon the public.

Posted by: @pertinax

I figure the chances of it being used against me, while possible, are minimal.

The attack will come from the guy who wants to teach the "teacher" a lesson. I mentioned him, and his parts, earlier. If you keep a low profile, a tight mask, and don't brag, he will never find you.

Posted by: @pertinax

people, even aikidoka, who don't believe in ki.

Yeah, the doctors dissected bodies in search of the channels (haha). They said there was no Chi/Ki, no channels, they said acupuncture works through nerves (but couldn't explain how), they said it was "hypnosis" (even though it works on dogs), and they branded it as quackery.

A few years later they said doctors could practice acupuncture (legally, within their scope of practice) if they take the 500-hour acupuncture course. Funny how some people can change their mind.

Posted by: @pertinax

the effect is akin to being thrown by a puff of air, it's exhilarating ...

One has been absorbed into, and directed out of, the very non-dual (Aiki) subject we are randomly discussing. It is not abstract, you will fall on the mat, but you'll have a hard time explaining it to someone, even if they were standing right there, watching you fall.

 


wellreadwellbred
(@wellreadwellbred)
Member
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 1143
 

Shiva: "Here's how I understand non-dualism in Thelema: There is no non-dual concept mentioned, as such. The words non-duall, or Advaita (which I take to men "non-dual"), were first heard by me here at LAShTAL, and they were uttered/typed by Michael Staley. And that was maybe 5 years ago."

 

Michael Staley: "On the face of it, Advaita might be considered a key component in Crowley’s “spiritual system”, particularly in the formulation 0=2. However, Crowley’s attitude to Advaita was a curious one: for instance, from Letter Five of ‘Magick without Tears’:, speaking of what he termed “The Monist (or Advaitist) school”:

“It seems to me that this doctrine is based upon a sorites of doubtful validity. To tell you the hideously shameful truth, I hate this doctrine so rabidly that I can hardly trust myself to present it fairly!”

Personally I find Crowley’s attitude to Advaita absurd, but there it is."

( Source:  "Tobias Churton: Aleister Crowley in India (Advanced Notice)"  - - - https://www.lashtal.com/tobias-churton-aleister-crowley-in-india-advanced-notice/  ) 

 

Crowley writes much on why he hates "The Monist (or Advaita) school", in Letter Five (= "The Universe: The 0 = 2 Equation") of Magick Without Tears:

In said letter A.C.'s hate of what he calls "The Monist (or Advaita) school", is based on that it to him represents an answer to "How did it come to be?", which he describes as the "Riddle of the Universe",  derived from what he calls "... these God-inventing mules, with their incurably commonplace minds."

Crowley's "... objection to that theory [ = "The Monist (or Advaita) school or doctrine] is that God has to create things which are all parts of himself, so that their interplay is false." 

And Crowley ends letter 5 in Magick Without Tears with presenting his alternative to said "false" interplay:

"If we presuppose many elements, their interplay is natural.

It is no objection to this theory to ask who made the elements—the elements are at least there, and God, when you look for him, is not there. Theism is obscurum per obscurius [ =  (explaining) the obscure by means of the more obscure]. [...] 

Every “act of love under will” has the dual result (1) the creation of a child combining the qualities of its parents, (2) the withdrawal by ecstasy into Nothingness. Please consult what I have elsewhere written on “The Formula of Tetragrammaton;” the importance of this at the moment is to show how 0 and 2 appear constantly in Nature as the common Order of Events.

Love is the law, love under will.

Fraternally,

666".  

( Source:  "Magick Without Tears by Aleister Crowley[,] Chapter V: The Universe: The 0 = 2 Equation"  - - - https://hermetic.com/crowley/magick-without-tears/mwt_05 )


wellreadwellbred
(@wellreadwellbred)
Member
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 1143
 

Me: "... In said letter [ = Letter Five (= "The Universe: The 0 = 2 Equation") of Magick Without Tears] A.C.'s hate of what he calls "The Monist (or Advaita) school", is based on that it to him represents an answer to "How did it come to be?", which he describes as the "Riddle of the Universe",  derived from what he calls "... these God-inventing mules, with their incurably commonplace minds.""

Also, A.C. proclaimed a kind of atheism with his Thelema: "There is no god but man." Liber Oz (= Book 77). 

( Source: Liber LXXVII - - - https://lib.oto-usa.org/libri/liber0077.html )


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1839
 

I walked into a biker bar and said some of the the words in repeated posts and blam ! none of them touched me ! they just went back to drinking.


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1839
 

Then i went out and did that move on the cows chewing cud.


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1839
 

Man i’m getting pretty good at this.


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5986
Topic starter  
Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

The 0 = 2 Equation" 

Well, yes. Thank you for the Crowley viewpoint. I am only a bit confused. 

Crowley hates the Monist (Advaita) system. Mono- means "One." It is the Unity school. AC defused this by showing "One" was an impossibility. That duality merges into Nothing (2=0). I get that part. But does "Advaita" mean "One" or simply "Non-Dual"? They are not the same. One is "one," the other is "none."

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

The Monist (or Advaita) school", is based on that it to him represents an answer to "How did it come to be?"

Okay, but is this Monist (one god sort of thing) really the same as the Advitist (non-dual)?

I dunno. So I looked it up ...

"Advaita is a Sanskrit word that translates as “not two” or “no second.” This gives the idea that the inner Self, or Atman, is the same as the Absolute Reality, that is Brahman." -Yogapedia

Right. Atman. The One Universal Self. One. The Monad. We all have a Monad, a Hadit, that is universal, but he is hot-wired into each of us ... when we are properly aligned.

But "the knowledge of me is the knowledge of death." To know Kether, one's viewpoint of Atma results in a merging ... and there's no knower/observer anymore. Nothing remains. Shivatmadarshana (now showing in the Ain Soph Aur theatre.

Posted by: @tiger

I walked into a biker bar and ...

Was this a "New Aeon" Biker Bar?


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 
Screen Shot 2021 05 16 at 5.23.07 PM
Screen Shot 2021 05 16 at 5.22.37 PM

 

Screen Shot 2021 05 16 at 5.22.58 PM
Screen Shot 2021 05 16 at 5.22.46 PM

 

Screen Shot 2021 05 16 at 5.25.46 PM

 

Screen Shot 2021 05 16 at 5.24.01 PM

 

Screen Shot 2021 05 16 at 5.25.33 PM

 

Screen Shot 2021 05 16 at 5.25.07 PM

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 

 

Viewing Liber al Vel Legis as an extension of non dual Vajrayana Buddhism isn't a reach, if we look at what "historical" conversations were influencing Aleister Crowley at the time of its reception.

At the time of receiving Liber al Vel Legis, Crowley was a Buddhist. So that part is simple.

By 1904, Buddhism "crushed" Crowley's magickal universe of the Golden Dawn, so while both of these historical dialectics, one from the east, another from the west, were indeed Crowley's influence, Liber al Vel Legis would absolutely reflect Crowley's unconscious mind which at the time was seeped in study of the Dharma and already surrendered to its precepts.

In 1903, Crowley's Essay "Science and Buddhism" shows deep philosophical "muscle flexing" working through "The Four Noble Truths", and from reading his view of Buddhism in 1903 we get a strong sense of the profound philosophical respect he has for the tradition, especially as it can work with science.

This quote from "Wishing you a speedy termination to your existence"  a scholarly paper exploring the influence of Buddhism on Crowley's Thelema (great title to a great little paper I found, some of you may already be familiar found here) tells the familiar story.

“Aleister Crowley was considerably influenced by the doctrines of Theravāda Buddhism, which he studied in his youth, both theoretically and practically. He correlated its principles to the principles of scientific agnosticism and considered that its objectives could also be achieved through the practice of ceremonial magic."

Its not Crowley's fault his particular brand of Buddhism was literally the "old aeon" Buddhism, what they call in Buddhism the "First turning of the Wheel of Dharma."

If Crowley had any knowledge of the Himalayan schools, the Vajrayana and Bonpo, he would have discovered a deeply magical tradition, magical beyond his or anyone's imagination in 1904, a land that was "turning" out millions of initiates over 1000 years, an entire nation dedicated to the practice of "magick", and first time since Egypt that we know this occurred. 

So because he was not aware that magical tradition already existed, he created it!

Combing Golden Dawn magick, however, with the conservative Theravada, kinda gives you a watered down Vajrayana, at least up to "generation" stage of Himalayan magical systems of the Buddhism and Bonpo.

Now what I did not learn earlier until this marvelous discussion here as Lashtal is that Crowley was influenced as well by Hegel! Which makes sense, "dialectics" were all the rage in the 19th century!

That contribution, as a hunch, actually may be a gift "back" to the east!

Ternary resolving dialectics already exist in Tibet, however, Hegel's historical dialectic as a way to view history, combined with the Kalachakra Tantra view of history, actually share a "resolution" in common, a golden age, arrived at by both Eastern and Western traditions and in completely unexpected and different ways from each other.

Pasting these three "sheets" together, which could have happened with or without his conscious intention, these things can even happen on a drug binge!

Either would be enough to put Crowley immediately on the radar of the Himalayan Boddhisattva lineages, why? Because that is all those lineages do! Look for these opportunities, and they have millions of arms and eyes so to speak, as the traditions and stories and myths say they do!

All lineages in the Himalaya have generated "millions" of initiates over the past millennia, with rich vows, devotionally engaged in the high magick practice of generating emanations of bodhisattvas and reincarnation lineages towards the golden age of Shambhala.

Their daily existence, deeply submersed from waking moment to sleep to dream to waking moment,  with pure intention, seeking any sentient being, on any plane, any possibility, no matter how little or how small, any opportunity to "leak" the Dharma into the west is the mission.

This is no normal "historical dialectical" process, this is where conversations get "spooky" as in "spooky action at a distance" and why I find this so fascinating.

But the dharma leaking into the west via countless bodhisattva adepts who only have "one" job which is to "turn the dharma wheel" through Himalayan magick, is not the same dharma wheel as Theravada, it is the Vajrayana, the "third turning of the wheel of dharma", not the first turning!

Three wheels of turning

Three aeons.

Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis

While I believe all of Crowley's work, both intentionally and unintentionally, is ultimately viral marketing "liber al vel legis", it seems likely in this scenario Liber al Vel Legis is viral marketing Vajrayana and the third turning of the dharma wheel!

And viewing Liber al Vel Legis as a conversation between schools of Buddhism, between the "wheels of the dharma turning", between various interpretations of "Sunyata" itself, it appears maybe Crowley is the "dog who caught the car", biting off more than he could chew! 

And that is what we see about Crowley, the man is flying by the seat of his pants!

He does seem to be set himself up for something far more than he could have ever expected with this fusion, historical dialectic, golden dawn magick, Theravada buddhism.

Paste the sheets from bottom to right, top to left, or something like that! hehe

When viewing Liber al vel Legis this way, we start to receive a lot of consistency!

Dzokden Crowley

WhatsApp Image 2021 05 16 at 10.06.38 PM

This book is a great read, recommend, also gives a shout out to Lashtal!

91vgklqHuXL

Want this book! Anyone read?

WhatsApp Image 2021 05 16 at 10.07.39 PM

Also, 

93 🙂

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1839
 

@sangewanchuck56
Who is the Vajrayana Lineage holder you study with ?

It's apparent, but thought i'd ask just to confirm.


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 

What “concepts” do we each have about Sunyata?

 

“I have no concepts!” shouts the zen student “Shut up! STOP talking, concept BAD”

 

This is not the view of RHK.

 

RHK, as a “dual” god, is always doing “two” things at once, and you may see one of these things, both of these things, or none of them at all!

 

RHK is uniting both the “conceptual” teaching of Sunyata, as well as the “actual” teaching of Sunyata, to introduce a “new” teaching of Sunyata, one that aligns with “The third turning of the wheel of Dharma” or as Crowley called it, “The New Aeon”

 

Additionally, RHK does not like ANYONE bringing “knowledge” into the interpretation either. RHK insists! 

 

Now let it be first understood that I am a god of War and of Vengeance. I shall deal hardly with them.”

 

This text requires not knowledge but understanding, in the past tense, as in the only way to interpret this text is through understanding 1 and 2, transcending duality, transcending the abyss.

 

Where as Nuit wishes to make crossing the abyss sooooo easy, as if she could simply seduce you into crossing simply by her lovely kisses, with no ordeal, RHK is going to “kick us” out of the Supernal view if we have not already crossed the abyss.

Where as Hadit, through tough compassionate love, wishes to train our minds to the very best ability to cross this abyss, again, RHK is here to despise everyone who hasn’t and will kick us the hell out of the Supernals without thinking twice about it.

This is actually the compassionate view! 

Hadit’s compassionate chapter teaches us that the “conceptual view”, knowledge itself, while being “false” above the abyss and “true” below, is transmuted into the “art” of the initiate, the art to compliment the “math” of Nuit.

To the western mind, a very literary mind like Crowley did indeed have, this view means that the language of RHK is BOTH poetry AND math to arrive at Sunyata, together.

RHK is the resolution of the conversation. RHK is the resolution of all conversations between art and science, the self and other, east and west, collectivism and individualism, as well as the “two truths” of the Mahayana! The two truths on the teaching of Sunyata.

So if RHK is the solution, why is this chp so friggin hard to read?

Consider a complex math problem, written as a formula, but viewed by a non mathematician.

So we look at this kind of “text”, math, with a bunch of strange looking symbols, numbers, squiggly lines, etc and at the end of this math problem, the only symbol non mathematicians can recognize is the “=” symbol, the symbol that stands in between the problem, and the solution.

Now imagine ONLY viewing the written solution to the math problem, which only appears to non mathematicians as squiggly lines, and not the “=” nor all the squiggly lines that represent the “problem” in the formula.

If that above metaphor makes sense, we can see how this chp is so complex to resolve, for it is already the resolution of the problem, but we can’t see the “first half of the equation!”

So to understand RHK is not easy like the fun and simple “divide multiply and understand” of Nuit, but the formula for understanding RHK we have already been given by Nu and Had.

RHK is the ‘wisdom’ to “see” the distinction between knowledge and understanding, and in their natural state!

What makes this a bit easier in the supernals is that all of the dualities, all of the concepts have already been transmuted, and there is only ONE eternal duality that is continually resolving, and that is the duality of “wisdom” and “compassion”.

They may not appear as a duality at first, like “night” and “day”, yet here is the ONLY view possible within RHK!

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 
Posted by: @tiger

Who is the Vajrayana Lineage holder you study with ?

It's apparent, but thought i'd ask just to confirm.

Hi Tiger! For some reason I think it is best I probably be silent about that, but I will tell you that I am intimately familiar with lineages mentioned in this conversation.

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 

The “third” turning of the wheel of dharma is the yogacara vajrayana.

 

While I do not see how Crowley could have had access to the most recent version of the eternal “diamond” found in the Himalaya in the Vajra, he could have had some limited exposure to the “Yogacara”.

 

The “doctrine” of the Yogacara is, like  vajrayana, like Hegel’s Dialectic, a “ternary” conversation, specifically.

 

One of the things about Buddhism I discovered, other than my own complete ignorance, is how rich it is a system of both analytical philosophy and psychology in a very similar manner to what we find in the west.

 

The Yogacara marked the third turning in Buddhism.

 

How is Yogacara defined in the accepted sense? 

 

Yogachara (IAST: Yogācāra; literally "yoga practice"; "one whose practice is yoga") is an influential tradition of Buddhist philosophy and psychology emphasizing the study of cognition, perception, and consciousness through the interior lens of meditative and yogic practices.

 

It is also variously termed Vijñānavāda (the doctrine of consciousness), Vijñaptivāda (the doctrine of ideas or percepts) or Vijñaptimātratā-vāda (the doctrine of 'mere representation), which is also the name given to its major epistemic theory. 

 

There are several interpretations of this main theory, some scholars see it as a kind of Idealism while others argue that it is closer to a kind of phenomenology or representationalism, aimed at deconstructing the reification of our perceptions.

 

Reading how the Yogacara is defined, to the ignorant like myself in the west when I first discovered it, removes the assumption of Buddhism as a “shut up and be silent” practice, reads more as if I am learning about Western analytical thought of Wittgenstein’s Tractatus in the west, sutras that require profound study and contemplation, both “analytical” in one sense yet highly experiential, gnostic, and therefore intuitive in another manner.

 

The lesson of Nuit is to “look” at the word, whereas the lesson of Hadit is to “listen” to the word. With RHK, we must do both.

 

And consider, to “listen” and to “look” is another duality, the duality of “light and sound” and this yoga, this tantra of Liber Al Vel Legis, is also the unification of Light and Sound itself, something all initiates eventually learn to balance.

 

So what does the text of RHK look like and what does it sound like? We must do both to obtain the higher understanding.

Choose ye an island!

An island can be likened to a mandala, a "realm" to work in what ever tantric practice you are doing, a place to go and create in your mind, where the visualizations occur, what they look like, what they "feel" like.

 

Fortify it!

 

“Fortify”, when we “listen” to the word, contains the sound “four”.

Fortifying, in this sense, is the unification of the four elements, which are pairs of opposites, which is purification.

Dung it about with enginery of war!

 

Because we are “above” the abyss, this could only mean that RHK has already transmuted WAR into LOVE as our dear O’Sensei, so we can only view “war” from the sense of its transcendence above the abyss, not “war” as in horrible historical acts of brutal killing.

 

What is War? WAR IS LOVE, the unification, the resolution, of the opposites.

 

This is all RHK does, without quarter, bring resolution, continually.

 

“Dung it” about is a curious word, because it is the act of defecation. 

 

Yet in tantra, things like defecation, urine, all “disgusting” substances, all impurities are “purified”, the underlying “essence” of all matter is sunyata, purity, and even the “shit” is transmuted into an Ocean of Wisdom.

 

Some tantriks literally “eat shit” as an ordeal of showing attainment of purity of sunyata, transmuting “shit” into wisdom, which is the unification of the opposites.

 

In the higher and more complex tantras, all buddhas are also joined with the female “consort” in coitus bliss, and the initiate also begins to learn that there is a “Yidam” or pair of male female buddhas fucking each others brains out for various somatic experiences of our daily life, including taking a shit and peeing!

 

RHK loves to therefore “shit” on things as the highest expression of purity, but also funny, as RHK is so rich with wisdom that he can even shit it out!

 

And when I read the original manuscript of Liber al Vel Legis, the written script, I do not see the line “I spit on your crapulous creeds”, I see the line read “I SHIT on your crapulous creeds” and in the non-dual understanding of the Vajrayana, that would be the HIGHEST COMPLIMENT to pay to word religions, as in I SEE YOUR UNDERLYING PURITY TOO! You are all explaining Sunyata! You are all full of this crap!

 

Screen Shot 2021 05 17 at 10.40.39 AM

 

And considering the older tantric practices, RHK’s version is actually a lot simpler and more compassionate than the Hindu tantrics, because there is no requirement here to EAT the Shit, but merely transcend the “word” shit, the word is empty, pure. 

 

Do you see shit when you look at the word shit, or do you see the pure state of the text?

 

And “Ocean of Wisdom” gives us “many” pairs of opposites that are transcended, where as the unification of these four elements of the mind, the source of light, the source of energy, the source life, and the source of nourishment, are dissolve into the “space” or “spirit”.

 

It's all shit! Hehe

I will give you a war-engine.

 

RHK “will” do this, not “did” do this. 

 

This is therefore a “promise”, part of the “samaya”, the vows between BOTH the initiate to the deity, and the Deity TO the initiate.

 

Get INTIMATE with RHK, he has taken vows to protect you if you are above the abyss, and therefore in Vajrayana, we can liken RHK to a “protector” of the Dharma and the Sanga.

 

  1. With it ye shall smite the peoples; and none shall stand before you.

 

“The Peoples” do NOT exist above the abyss where RHK is and the Peoples do not also exist in our shared reality as samsara either!

 

The “peoples” are our concepts about humanity broadly speaking, and specifically our concepts about “others”, not the “actual” others, but the “others” as they appear in our thoughts and ideas and concepts.

 

Any conversation where we say “they are the cause”, “they did it” “those people!” are expressions of the suffering of  this duality, and it riddles our language and communication, especially in 2021.

 

In Vajrayana, we learn to transmute “the peoples” into the Yidam, the coitus of the “mother and father”, even Vajradhara, the “buddha as teacher”.

 

All of Liber al Vel Legis makes perfect “sense” and “non-sense” as a sophisticated piece of Vajrayana literature, and a unique piece, for this is the tantra of language and words and writing and more importantly, in the act of conversation and discussion itself, internally and externally.

 

 I am the warrior Lord of the Forties: the Eighties cower before me, & are abased.

 

This is a popular line from the book, so I will focus on this next, but viewed through both “listening” to the words, and “looking” into the word.

 

To do this, we have to understand Crowley’s mind at the inception of Liber al Vel Legis, which was steeped in Theravada Buddhism and its study.

Buddhism is highly “mnemonic”, meaning that for the first two hundred years of Buddhism, there were no “texts” and everything was through the “spoken” tradition. 

 

This means that everything taught in buddhism follows mnemonic theory, which is sort of like the “tree of life” in the sense that it is explained so you can organize the consumption of the media easily in your mind.

 

So we always get the “Two truths” of this and the “three of that”, the “24 of this” and the “12 of that”.

 

And the dharma itself follows mnemonic reasoning, the FOUR Noble Truths and the Noble EIGHTFOLD  path of Truth is the “whole” of the Dharma.

 

Now, as a Mnemonic exercise, we can refer to this as the 4 T’s and the 8 T’s if we listen to the words, and then look into them.

 

So, when through this interpretation, RHK is saying “I am the WARRIOR of the Four Noble Truths, and the EIGHTFOLD path, and since this means that I am unifying the “turnings of the wheel of dharma”, the eightfold path of the first turning is now unified into the third!”

 

The four noble truths can read one way in the first turning, and another way in the third turning.

 

While in the first turning, we see Suffering, desire, and sorrow leading to sunyata, in the third turning we see “May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness, may all beings be “free” of suffering, may all beings NEVER be disconnected from excellent bliss (nirvana), and may all beings realize the equanimity of emptiness, the mystery of sunyata.

 

And the eightfold path therefore, is not between RIGHT and WRONG views, but following the “definitive” teaching, not the “conceptual” teaching, of the path.

 

And the Noble Path is for Kings.

 

Tantra, magick, is for the royal lofty chosen ones in society, those that do this work are not doing it for selfish attainment, they are doing this work for the transmutation of history itself into bliss, civilization builders, artists, scientists, builders all "push" the dharma wheel along, and this historical dialectic is playing out on the internet like no one in history previously could ever fathom!

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 359
 

True Will, or as it is referred to in Liber al Vel Legis, "pure will, lacking purpose" is on the one hand the "emptiness" of will, and specifically "intention". A "pure will" is a "purified intention" seeing all will as empty.

Now this type of "will" also has a name in the Vajrayana, this will is our "Buddha nature". While we may all find unique and therefore "provisional" expressions of this nature, what we all share in common is that the nature of Buddha nature is resolution.

Eventually, we all become Buddhas. It is the true will of every sentient being in the universe.

This nature in us is also like a "substance", our pure state, and learning through the dialogue of Nu and Had, play out as our "mind and body" training of emptiness while our speech, RHK, the union of both, plays out in our conversations with each other.

It is therefore our true will to seek and find resolution with each other, do this and no other shall say nay!

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Page 1 / 4
Share: