Non-dual Concepts w...
 
Notifications
Clear all

[Closed] Non-dual Concepts within Thelema

Page 2 / 4

Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 

As a formal system of magick, the "union with the holy guardian angel" takes on new profound meaning within Vajrayana, as all of reality can continually be "re-viewed and renewed" through this continual "ternary" dialogue, mind body speech, Nuit, Hadit, RHK, between the "Buddhas of the Three Times"

There are Buddhas of the Past, Present, and most interestingly, future.

Our Buddha Nature already exists in "Prajna paramita" with all of them.

When we enter sunyata, we are the unification of time, which is itself empty of all direction.

Here in samsara, malkuth, it is only the "future" when we become Buddhas.

However, in Sunyata, we are with our future Buddha self, or "ourselves in the future", right now.

Viewing the HGA, a way to discuss with our Buddha nature, our ourselves in the future, is the secret of Harpocrates, Silence, for the Buddha of the Future only speaks in silence here in duality, yet the communication with the HGA literally brings us "ideas from the future".

It is exactly these "ideas from the future" that the practice of magick, as taught by Crowley, delivers.

"Ideas from the future" give us the world that is then "built" by artists, scientists, etc.

Our present day reality is coming from the future, the future Buddhas "transmuting" our karmic choices of the past, which have created suffering, into a "Golden Age".

The Golden Age is the Kalachakra Tantra.

Boddhisattvas are literally "Buddha Warriors" if we look into the word.

Our future as a species here on earth, according to the Kalachakra Tantra, is being "visualized" NOW by the Kalki Kings, and all the Bodhisattvas.

And while we tend to think of "Shambhala" as a "hidden city" somewhere no one can ever find, when we look at the source texts, where all the "stories" of Shambhala began, "leaking" out into the west in various forms (Blavatsky and co), the texts inform us that it is comprised of MILLIONS of cities, millions of Buddha Warriors.

And thats all they do, as an entire society, will our future resolution, right ahead in our history, right now.

Kalachakra means "time wheel", how the three turnings of the Dharma ONLY resolve in the Golden Age, and every single event in history, as gruesome as it may appear, is nothing but the transmutation of the present by the future Buddhas, us.

We are the future Buddhas changing the world, now.

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


wellreadwellbred
(@wellreadwellbred)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 1163
 

Shiva, you asked "Okay, but is this Monist (one god sort of thing) really the same as the Advitist (non-dual)?", and you found a deinition of Adavaita, according to which "... the inner Self or Atman, is the same as the Absolute Reality, that is Brahman." -Yogapedia[.]"

 

In the letter letter 5  (= "The Universe: The 0 = 2 Equation")  in Magick Without Tears, where Crowley states that "I hate this doctrine [ = what Crowley calls "The Monist (or Advaita) school"] so rabidly that I can hardly trust myself to present it fairly!”, he states the following pertaining to the definition of Advaita you found ("... the inner Self or Atman, is the same as the Absolute Reality, that is Brahman."):

" The Monist (or Advaitist) school [...] seems to approach the ultimate reality (as opposed to the superficial examination of the Dualists) more closely." [...]

“Reality” for them consists solely of Brahman, the supreme Being “without quantity or quality.” They are compelled to deny him all attributes, even that of Existence; for to do so would instantly limit them, and so hurl them headlong back in to Dualism." 

[...] There is in Advaitism a most fascinating danger; that is that, up to a certain point, “Religious Experience” tends to support this theory. [...] "... of the Universe as a single_phenomenon, outside all limitations, whether of time, space, causality, or what not. [...] it is natural, not merely natural, but inevitable, for anyone who has experienced “Samadhi” (this word conveniently groups the higher types of vision [...]) to regard normal life as “illusion” by comparison with this state in which all problems are resolved, all doubts driven out, all limitations abolished. [...]

How do we judge the “reality” of an ordinary impression upon consciousness? Chiefly by its intensity, by its persistence, by the fact that nobody can argue us out of our belief in it.

[...] even beyond Atmadarshana comes the experience called Sivadarshana,[...] in which this Atman (or Brahman), this limit-destroying Universe, is itself abolished and annihilated.

(And, with its occurrence, smash goes the whole of the Advaitist theory!) "

That is, Crowley recjects Advaita, as it to him is based on postulating a "ultimate reality" or "Absolute Reality", Brahman, which regard what he calls "normal life" ( – and describes as "the “reality” of an ordinary impression upon consciousness [...] [judged] Chiefly by its intensity, by its persistence, by the fact that  that nobody can argue us out of our belief in" – ) as “illusion”, or “Maya” or some equivalent term."

 

This implies that his Thelema does not regard what he calls "normal life" as "illusion":

 

Crowley's "The New Comment" to the very first line of the most important book of his Thelema, The Book of the Law:

"The theogony of our Law is entirely scientific, Nuit is Matter, Hadit is Motion, in their full physical sense. (The Proton and the Electron, in a metaphysical sense, suggest close analogies._ They are the Tao and Teh of Chinese Philosophy; or, to put it very simply, the Noun and Verb in grammar. Our central Truth -- beyond other philosophies -- is that these two infinities cannot exist apart."

 


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1854
 

@sangewanchuck56
“ it appears maybe Crowley is the "dog who caught the car", biting off more than he could chew ! “

I guess you didn’t get the gold from reading the Equinoxes.

“ Hi Tiger! For some reason I think it is best I probably be silent about that, but I will tell you that I am intimately familiar with lineages mentioned in this conversation. “

I haven’t seen you mention Lineages only just dropping names of vast umbrella categories of belief systems and concepts.
Thanks for confirming for me that you are not practicing or guided by a living embodiment of a Lineage.


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6159
Topic starter  
Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

This implies that his Thelema does not regard what he calls "normal life" as "illusion"

I have a clearer picture now. The Monist (One) school posits One God. One Universal Daddy-o.

The Advaita (non to be confused with A. Waite) school is based upon the translation "Not-two," and could easily be converted to the 2=0 equation ... but it has already determined the solution to "not-two" is One. Thus, they appear to be Monist. This is the doctine that Therion "hates," and he goes to great length in order to demonstrate that One cannot be, and that Zero is the true "non-dual" concept.

For myself (only), I tend to reject philosophies that affirm or deny illusion. Most of us have had at least a fleeting glimpse of the illusionary nature of some phenomenon, if not the universe itself. So we can be clever koanists and spout theses or retorts that mimic The Book of Lies.

 It's simple: If one is working on the physical plane, operating a power saw, a welding torch, or a 747, the philosophical leaning toward illusion is best kept in the back seat.

But if one is merely contemplating anything or everything, it is possible to perceive the illusionary nature of phenomena. It is the realization that all phenomena come from an empty source. (see: Black Holes; Galactic Centers).

We don't want to confuse these planes.

Ideally, one will become gradually able to perform dangerous physical acts while simultaneously aware of the illusion involved. The word is ideally, and it means "if everything goes the way it's supposed to go." Good luck.

If the One doesn't exist, then why are Aiwass, Hadit, and RHK all stuck up at Kether, as the One who is the Spire at the zenith of the Tree.

I must be twisted somehow, because I have no problem with Atma, in his manifestation as RHK or Allah. Does Crowley not realize that V.V.V.V.V., the Light of the World himself, is the left hand of Atma? Didn't he figure out that Therion, the 2000-year Magus himself, is the right hand of Atma? 

And Atma himself, undivided into left and right, is called The Monad by the Theosophists and their off-shoots. The Monad is One, but it's hard to find - because it has No Dimensions. A point has no depth, width, or breadth. Effectively, it is Nothing, and AC should be happy. But science call this a String (see: String Theory). It has no dimensions (um, okay) ... but it vibrates in ten dimensions. Even the entry-level Qabalist can put this puzzle together.

There may be a 2=0 movement, without a One, but Science and Theosophy say "It ain't Nuthin."

Well, the Monists stop at Kether. If they pushed on, to pre-Atma, we come to Adi. Adi is equivalent to Rigpa. Perdurabo endured to the end, not stopping at The White House, and he saw that Atma, God, Allah were one big illusion with different names, created by the Mind. The process and the vision is called Shivatmadarshana.

So how can daily life be non-illusionary if it is created by an illusionary Monarch?

This has been a presentation of Monality and Nonality, with reference to the One and the None. A solution, resolution, or dissolution has not been identified, so don't take this to church or the bank.

Posted by: @tiger

I guess you didn’t get the gold from reading the Equinoxes.

The gold is found by doing the D-class Libers in The Equinoxes, not just reading them.

 


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @tiger

I haven’t seen you mention Lineages only just dropping names of vast umbrella categories of belief systems and concepts.
Thanks for confirming for me that you are not practicing or guided by a living embodiment of a Lineage

The treachery of images! The treachery of language! 

Any "true" tantric would take my words, take my presence, even take any "fake" lineage that I, or any other initiate could fake (like the Beast himself!) and TRANSMUTE my words, indeed, transmute my "fake" lineage, into the TRUE one!

As I am doing for you now brother!

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 

A great piece of "moving images" from the 21st Century came from our dear brother Orson Wells, "F for Fake"

And this great master work we can watch for free, on the internet. I remember when I head to search hell and high water to watch this!

https://youtu.be/gIVgUjj6RxU

The projections we can have of each other on the internet, this great gift of RHK, are perfectly revealed because of this great war engine.

We don't know who each other are. Anyone who has been reading my text has likely developed a picture in their minds of who I am, and maybe think in real life, perhaps I may look like the plump ol Orson Wells in the photo!

We all get the version of each other that we deserve, and I can assure you, I have a great tush!

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 

 

Screen Shot 2021 05 17 at 10.40.39 AM

The Mystery of the "Changing Letter" in Thelema.

If we view Liber al Vel Legis as a complete system of tantra, then we cannot separate the text from the scribe from the body of stories about the scribe.

The "story" of the evolution and growth of "Thelema" and the journey of the "Beast" himself, is all part of one tantra.

My scribe Ankh-af-na-khonsu, the priest of the princes, shall not in one letter change this book; but lest there be folly, he shall comment thereupon by the wisdom of Ra-Hoor-Khuit.

So when the text "teases" us about "chance" and hints of "one to follow!" we should always include the full "story" of the tantra.

Now years ago, when I first had these "a-ha's!" about the text in its relationship to emptiness, and I viewed the original document, the "shape" of the word "spit" as in "I spit on your crapulous creeds!" truly does like an an "h" instead of a "p".

And at first I thought, well no one has ever mentioned this, and that is likely only how it looks to me, it it looks like RHK is saying he is going to take a shit on Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, etc

I mean, if it was "shit on", then Crowley certainly would NOT have changed that letter, right?

And if it is truly "shit", why didn't he?

This book shall be translated into all tongues: but always with the original in the writing of the Beast; for in the chance shape of the letters and their position to one another: in these are mysteries that no Beast shall divine.

Anyway, I put all of that consideration of the word "shit" being somewhat itself a "secret word" of Sunyata in the third chapter, until the whole "debacle" around "fill" and "kill" a few years ago.

Oye! So Crowley already fucked that up, and it was kill and not fill in the original, but "fill" in all other publications!

And would they actually change it? Thus canceling out the entire book, according to its own text, changing ONE letter?

I mean, what are the friggin' odds that this would be the ONE mistake in the book, and caused by the Beast himself, flying by the seat of his pants, trying to share this great work with the world??

However, looking at this with "tantric" eyes, these chapters may be more about the "magick" that Thelema teaches, and how that magick appears to us here in Samsara, as an experience of "synchronicity" or "two time wheels" one that is internal, communicating with the "outside" time world, events as they happen in history, big or small.

In 1904, and even in today, saying the actual word " I take a shit on Christianity and Islam" is a very very powerful thing to say, even utter for many people. Without understanding the underlying interpretation in a tantric view of "shit", publishing liber al vel legis with that language could have prevented its viral growth, that may be too much for some without understanding the key.

So, if it is shit, was it on purpose? Does it look like the word "shit" to you?

Now, if it is "shit", and Crowley was the one who both covered this up, and "screwed" up the other one, then in a way, we get a perfect "teaching" on the two truths, and what is teaching us this is synchronicity, events in time, seemingly unrelated, yet delivering powerful "termas" or secret teachings.

So, this means that the OTO has the "provisional" teaching of Liber al Vel Legis, necessary for whomever joined whenever they joined, but not the "definitive" teaching of Liber al Vel Legis, which is Sunyata.

And the OTO, intentionally or not, made this secret even "deeper" in the text!

And this is where the joke can get very funny with Liber al Vel Legis, because I could be entirely delusional, and everything I have shared could have nothing to do with the "actual" Liber al vel Legis.

But Liber al Vel Legis is showing us the "dialectic" between the provisional, temporary, and the "definitive", Sunyata.

So if I am delusional, it does not matter, for inside of Liber al vel Legis I have obtained the highest possible teaching, Sunyata.

And therefore, we can declare that the definitive meaning of Liber al Vel Legis is Sunyata, and that this great text predicts an infinite number of provisional teachings!

 

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3199
 

Multiple post alert.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6159
Topic starter  
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Any "true" tantric would take .. any "fake" lineage that I ... fake ... and TRANSMUTE my words, indeed, transmute my "fake" lineage, into the TRUE one!

Oh.

I don't doubt that you have studied this stuff. Just the name of ONE Master or Lama or Initiator, from whom you've received oral instruction, initiation, or empowerment, would get the Tiger off your back.

As to the TRANSMUTATION of your words, presence, and lineage into the real deal, I guess I am not a true tantric, because I haven't been able to localize you, yet. Maybe more time, more work, less money will help.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

I can assure you, I have a great tush!

Oh, My!  [blush]


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @shiva

I don't doubt that you have studied this stuff. Just the name of ONE Master or Lama or Initiator, from whom you've received oral instruction, initiation, or empowerment, would get the Tiger off your back.

What if Tiger is my guru?

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6159
Topic starter  
Posted by: @dom

Multiple post alert.

Three in a Row. Way to Go.

Myself, I'm pushing #2 (duality), so I'll knock it off here.

SW56: What if Tiger is my guru?

Um, he isn't. I know these things


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @dom

Multiple post alert.

And Dom my superior in the AA?

lol

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3199
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56
Posted by: @dom

Multiple post alert.

And Dom my superior in the AA?

lol

The multiple post rule is years old on this forum.   Usually the administrator steps in. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6159
Topic starter  
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

And Dom my superior in the AA?

Somebody, anybody (not me at this time) can push the "Report" button at the bottom of each post, at any time. This will alert The Coming One, who may, or may not, breathe fire.

(It's like scaring people with The Devil ... but worse.


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 

As Hegel predicted, and the Kalachakra initiated, The Golden Age is coming. 

The conclusion of all of the historical conversations, said Hegel, end with the “ultimate liberation” of humanity.

Hegel said the spirit of history is Zeitgeist, “Time spirit” in German.

What is this spirit?

At the end of Chapter 3, RHK gives us a little surprise peak, and I believe there is a very deep secret of magick and tantra in these lines as well

I am the Lord of the Double Wand of Power; the wand of the Force of Coph Nia--but my left hand is empty, for I have crushed an Universe; & nought remains.

The “double wand” is the vajra, a double pronged vajra.

It is also the “swastika”, but of course not of the Germans! But of the Bonpo, The swastika comes from the Bonpo, most here already know this but a very ancient symbol!

asdasDsd
asdfddddd
sdfasdfasdf

Is that oRHK in the BonPo image below?

or is this just a picture of RHK, or something that looks like RHK, as a traditional dress of the Bon?

BOn magick

The double wand as the vajra represents the “vajra” being itself, the “union of wisdom and compassion” which is indestructible, impossible to disintegrate.

“Force of Coph Nia” is a brilliant line, it sounds, in reverse, like Ain Soph, its reversing the sound of one word, reversing both words, and altering a “k’ sound of a c into an S.

Left hand empty is pretty clear and straightforward, one hand holds the union of wisdom and compassion, the vajra, the “symbol” of Sunyata, while the left hand is empty, nothing, the “actual” experience of Sunyata.

Three veils of three supernals, this is where there are dakinis in Vajrayana. This is the land where magick is born!

This is also how far this “ternary” conversation, the union, division, and continual resolution, leaves a footprint, and these footprints are the “skywalkers”, the dakinis who whisper secrets to initiates and lead them to teachings and termas, and initiate them into the secrets of tantra.

This is where “secret termas” are “hidden in the ethers”, waiting to be unlocked in the mind, or even hidden in consensual reality, like caves, or even books!

Yet, the mystery of sunyata teaches us, this emptiness is the source of all compassion!

The experience of sunyata is inseparable from compassion, while the understanding of sunyata is the wisdom.

  1. Paste the sheets from right to left and from top to bottom: then behold!

Liber al Vel Legis is a new kind of tantra. What does this mean exactly? Well, when it hits us, we will “behold” it! 

Meaning, we will get more than we expect when we paste them together.

Well, let’s look close into the word tan-tra, a sanskrit word. 

While there are many views of the meaning, the one that is likely epistemologically correct is tantra means “to weave” in sanskrit.

Weaving clothing, blankets and textiles thousands of years ago was pretty much our daily activity. 

Rug weaving shows “interconnectedness” and also a useful metaphor of tantra, an easy way to teach tantra two thousand years ago, see even back then Nuit was making it easy to teach!

But things have changed! All is not aught, words change, people change, meaning changes because they are all temporary, empty.

Liber al Vel Legis, however, is in the “new” aeon, one where our daily activity is no longer “weaving” spells, but writing them!

Books are “bound” together, with pages which contain letters, words, sentences. 

All of the communication in Liber al Vel Legis is leading us to look at this new aeon and magick in a new way, using language, writing and all the metaphors of production as one tantra.

Nuit in the first chapter even tells us that she has “bound” the universe together, we need to “bind nothing” there, she has already done that work, our work is the work of writing!

When binding a book together, we are binding the sheets of the book, which are many, into “one”.

Sheets are “streams” of images and text in a book, but also in our minds. 

Sheets are “paradigms”, entire reams of vision or idea, not just a phrase, or a comment.

This tantra, this magick, is using all of the elements in all world systems, whatever they are, and this text offers an initiation into this new “tantra”, the resolution of all ideologies, all religions, all systems in Sunyata, which this book predicts we will resolve through language. Writing, and by taking joy in writing.

In the age of social media, this takes on special form impossible to conceive of in 1904. Even more so when we see how easy it is, in this new age, to “copy and paste the sheets!”.

By combining “systems”, paradigms, following our “true will”, which is empty of purpose, we will be working with the force of the veils of sunyata, the mystery of magick itself, time.

Time and space are maya, and most confuse the word maya as “illusion”, as a “trick” played upon us. “Maya” actually means illusion like “magick”!

This entire world and all of creation is magick.

The problem is we have forgotten the formula! The world is being created by past causes, karma, unintended consequences held within our past intentions.

Without understanding the mystery of sunyata, we are never really creating reality now, we are only creating reality in our past.  

Sunyata is equal to white magick. 

This force of the veils is the strongest magick in existence, it always wins, cannot be defeated.

Without Sunyata, we are never performing white magick, we are only performing really bad psychology.

And this discovery for humanity is the turning point. 

All systems must resolve in sunyata.

Resolving all systems in Sunyata is a key theme in Kalachakra tantra, one does not even need to be a Buddhist to take Kalachakra initiation, and Kalachakra tantra is the only system from the Himalaya that anyone can take an initiation into, by decree of the Dalai Lama, who has given many around the world.

Since 1904, all conversations having been leading to this point in history, and we can learn to weave this new magick “a little bit” at first, it is not hard to begin.

This “zeitgeist” RHK, will play out with each other, in “little ways” such as even having this conversation right now on this forum and participating a little bit, to the “grand” synthesis of all lineages, all traditions, all ideologies, resolving.

The Bodhisattva vow is itself revealed a bit here too, for the vow of the Bodhisattva is not “refusing” to enter nirvana until we all do, The secret teaching of the Bodhisattva vow is that the final nirvana simply IS the one we can all take together! and that’s why it a lot of fun to think like we can all hang around to create this great event.

Anyone can take the kalachakra tantra, and the bodhisattva vow is within the ritual.

Once the kalachakra initiation has been taken, the initiate’s next rebirth will be in Shambhala, where they will join the Buddha Warriors, and continue to initiate an everlasting Golden Age on earth.

RHK gives us a peak into how this resolves.

  1. There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son.

The sun of midnight is the Winter Solstice, the “son” born at the winter solstice is “Jesus” in Christianity. So we do not assume this is christian prediction! But I do enjoy the “release of tension” after a few sheets before, RHK took a shit on him!

Jesus is a symbol for the messiah. Yet Christmas is the symbol for the equal exchange of gifts as a form of happiness and celebration.

We learn, in the simplest of language, the historical dialectic of the Aeons, for in the last aeon, the formula of the word of suffering, duality, took two forms in conversations in history.

One form is “You will suffer so I will not have to”, which Jesus reversed “I will suffer so you will not have to” as the “antithesis”.

Liber al Vel Legis gives us the wisdom to see, that the initiate Jesus, compassionate, reversed the conversation, but did not complete it, because he was the antithesis, NOT the synthesis.

All of us are this synthesis in the new aeon.

The conversation, the formula, is collaborative. 

So what does our historical conversation look like now, how should we guide it?

“If you have come here to help me you are wasting your time, but if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together.” - Lilla Watson

The “secret” in this text is the mystery of Christmas, on the solstice we give gifts to each other. An exchange.

And this is going to play out somehow through our conversations, through learning from each other, for all historical dialectics, all lineages, are all coming together, and even though “one knew not well the other”, now we can all learn it was sunyata the entire time, our equanimity, playing out in all the possible variations of the one definitive truth.

Christmas time itself shows this hidden “magick” of the Himalaya, but also Thelemic Magick.

We don’t buy ourselves gifts on Christmas!

“Do what thou wilt” is often “reversed” in the minds of the uninitiated, they assume it means Nuit is telling us we can do what we want and go vote for Trump! Oye.

No, Nuit wants us to “do ye also thus”, like her.

This is what she bids to us, and what we bid to each other, but not take for ourselves, because we get more back, more than we expect, when we follow the formula she teaches us! We are self empty, free of desire save the desire that all sentient beings be free of suffering and be in bliss!

We have transmuted desire to serve the other! And they serve us in return!

Do what thou wilt is NOT what we take on for ourselves, Do what thou wilt is what we extend to others.

We wish everyone else to do their bidding, and they wish us to do our bidding in return.

The discovery of the true will is the discovery of equanimity.

So therefore, the “final” secret of Liber al Vel Legis, is to obtain our freedom and liberation by focusing on the liberation of other beings, this is the TRUE source of the himyalayan magick, the transmutation of suffering and pain into ultimate bliss as it is experienced in the body, the wish fulfilling jewel. 

Nothing feels better than a warm heart!

And nothing makes that warm heart pure white than warm coitus, union, resolution.

Humanity, like the Crowley, IS the Beast, we are the beast in revelations, we are the ones being transmuted into something, and the act of us transmuting ourselves in history makes us the messiah we have all been waiting for.

To transmute ourselves, we need a “war-engine”, a war engine that gives us the ability to resolve all contradictions, not just within ourselves, but with each other.

This “spirit” of the messiah, the “time spirit” zeitgeist, is what we see ripping through history, uniting us into this collective force, leading only to the Golden Age.

As brothers fight ye!

 

The Book of the Law is Written

and Concealed.

Aum Ha

Concealing is tantric, hiding, binding. It's locked. To open it, to understand it, you need a key.

This book is bound together with the original writing of the beast, where the key is.

To “reveal” the text is to extend the “mind”, not the body, not the speech, in Sunyata.

Aum Ha is a remarkably familiar “ring” to a tantric, the full phrase is Aum Ah Hum!

Body speech and mind.

So Aum Ha takes the “aum ah”, reverse the sound of “speech” to unlock the text, and Hum is the mind in Sunyata. 

So, the book of the law, concealed is Aum ha, there is something to “reverse” in the book to reveal it, something in the book that is being said is reversed!

The book of the law revealed is Aum Ah Hum!

The Book of the Law was bound together when concealed, and upon revelation, we “paste the sheets back together”, in revelation, continually!

Aum Ah Hum!

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @shiva

This morning, at least, I officially declare that you are not dangerous to others ... but perhaps dangerous to your online avatar, who may get killed dead for serial posting Blog rants.

All text is empty of all meaning, to transmute Sange Wanchuk, a ranting delusional fool, into a true initiate, a true practitioner, is accomplished by changing all of my "rants", which is the duality you are projecting on my text, and then transmuting the "ranting" meaning of text into the diamond mind, above the abyss, and speech of the vajrayana, which is the Union of Had and Nu.

Then you learn the secret of turning me into the real thing, instead of the fake that I present to you 🙂

Posted by: @shiva

I have stated that the only cure is "Stop the Mind."

This is what the revelation of Liber al Vel Legis is telling us. That's a false idea, its not possible, its a symptom of duality. The mind does not stop. the mind does not start. the mind is already in the pure state. All avoidance is attachment to form.

Tantra is the art of turning monkey chatter into angelic communication.

Liber al Vel Legis shows us how to do that with text and meaning.

Posted by: @shiva

Feel free to experiment.

Do what thou wilt! Thank you brother!

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

sunyata

Please define this term. It is not used much (if at all) around here.

It is defined in other terms around here quite often, each with a unique perspective.

The first experience of Sunyata in Thelema is the crossing of the abyss into Binah.

This state of being, while not the full prajna paramita, is called "suchness" or the Tathata. 

It is the first bhumi, the first "birth" of the Bodhisattva, as well as a "master of the temple".

It has the same view as the magus, but this view has not yet developed the full tools of magick, those come along with the ordeals of moving from Binah into Chokmah.

Sunyata is the "nothingness" that is the secret key of the law of Thelema, as well as the secret to white magick and tantra.

The entire text of Thelema is the full teaching of the Yogacara teaching of Sunyata, including the resolution of the two teachings of sunyata in Vajrayana Buddhism.

So Liber al Vel Legis should be an important book for Vajrayana and perhaps even the Bonpo! I did not see that before this great conversation, in which you have been secretly helping the whole time!

Posted by: @shiva

The Battle is on the Causal Plane
(Higher Mind, Abstract Mind, Soul)

We see war and revolt breaking out all over the physical plane, emotions (Yesod) are loudly expressed, certain pronunciations of the name of God are disputed, some cultures hate other cultures 'cause they were taught to do so as children. But the core friction is found upon the causal plane. Yeah, it's the work of the Inner Order, because ...

As a man thinks in his heart, so shall it be.

Yikes! Warning! There is division hither homeward! These are "reversed" images!

The battle is ONLY in duality, in samsara, and in our intellect in samsara ONLY!

A man does not think in his heart! Heart is not for thinking!

Liber al Vel Legis warns us of this

Let the Scarlet Woman beware! If pity and compassion and tenderness visit her heart; if she leave my work to toy with old sweetnesses; then shall my vengeance be known. I will slay me her child: I will alienate her heart: I will cast her out from men: as a shrinking and despised harlot shall she crawl through dusk wet streets, and die cold and an-hungered.

Thinking is the conceptual mind. When the conceptual mind is in the dual view, it reverses images in the mind, and does not see they are reflections, and confuses these images as "reality" or the truth as they see it. This is called "grasping" in Vajrayana, and "duality".

You are viewing the battle in the higher realm because the image is the reversal of where the battle is, in the intellect, right now.

By the way, this sort of "direct" confrontation I am doing right now, confronting you honestly, the best I can, truthfully as I see it, is actual what Liber al is teaching us to do with each other as brothers, as a way to arrive at sunyata together through working through the treachery of language.

Now, perhaps it is me who has the image flipped?

Honestly, I have confessed my truth to you, in good faith, and you are a brother of the order, we "argue" NOT, yet we "exchange" in a certain manner, in a manner that only leads to resolution, Sunyata of the text!

And it can do this rather quickly, and sometimes in ways that can be very shocking.

Dialectic is not arguing, the transmutation of the concept of duality, from a state of unknown mystery, or a state of actual truth, or a temporary truth, useful enough in the moment to express ourselves.

So you may see me be confrontational with you while doing this, and I invite it back in return.

If this was Aikido, in a contextual sense, this would be a physical technique we would practice.

In this new sense, this is a resolving dialectic, same exact principles as in Aikido, but in actual dialogue.

And like Aikido, you respond, in a calm and rational way, enjoying it, at peace.

Seeing the exchange as a grand dialogue, leading to resolution.

To see my text as empty is to see my text as a mystery to you, removing what ever "projected meaning" your mind attaches to the text. You see your interpretation of the text as being created in your mind, and you see my mind as empty, 0.

Perhaps you misunderstand something? You extend compassion, which in conversation is "good faith", rushing to greet my text with a "question", which "neutralizes" the Yang of my "attack", Thesis, with emptiness, zero, unknown, or in simple conversation, simply the hunchback  as Crowley would call it.

This is the magickal dialectic, a non dual form of communication.

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 

And the Great and Beautiful Angel descended on the meditating initiate, flowing with all garments sensual and lovely, with gracious perfumes and warm smooth skin, singing the luscious melodies of the muses into his ear as he sits in meditation.

"SHUT UP!" Said the initiate. "I AM Meditating!"

Turning quickly into his mother, the angel who now wont stop nagging him!

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1854
 

@sangewanchuck56
The task of prajna paramita is not to take sheets of unwarranted beliefs with justified beliefs declaring them to be true, and then becoming attached to them; but to break the habit of forming them.

Can you tell us a bit about Chandrakirti’s
refutations of the Yogācāra view point ?


David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3199
 
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

And Dom my superior in the AA?

Somebody, anybody (not me at this time) can push the "Report" button at the bottom of each post, at any time. This will alert The Coming One, who may, or may not, breathe fire.

(It's like scaring people with The Devil ... but worse.

I feel like such as snitch.

Is this the guilt of a good stern parent dealing with an unruly offspring?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 5341
 

@sangewanchuck56 - That's enough of the serial posting, thanks. As someone else pointed out, this forum is intended for announcements and/or discussions; it's not a blog.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @tiger

Can you tell us a bit about Chandrakirti’s
refutations of the Yogācāra view point ?

No, can you share with the forum, Guru?

Even better, Guru, can you refute them yourself, in your own language without referring to Chandrakirti's at all?

I would enjoy to see how you have adapted Chandrakirti's viewpoint, and if his conception, and your conception of his conception, are historically "current" with "our" conception at this point in history.

This will provide us with great teaching into the "conflict of concepts" about Sunyata!

Thank you in advance.

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Crowley writes much on why he hates "The Monist (or Advaita) school", in Letter Five (= "The Universe: The 0 = 2 Equation") of Magick Without Tears:

In said letter A.C.'s hate of what he calls "The Monist (or Advaita) school", is based on that it to him represents an answer to "How did it come to be?", which he describes as the "Riddle of the Universe",  derived from what he calls "... these God-inventing mules, with their incurably commonplace minds."

Crowley's "... objection to that theory [ = "The Monist (or Advaita) school or doctrine] is that God has to create things which are all parts of himself, so that their interplay is false." 

And Crowley ends letter 5 in Magick Without Tears with presenting his alternative to said "false" interplay:

 

This is a perfect example of the "historical dialectic" in action.

Advaita is an "old aeon" concept of non-duality.

The formula as it is "expressed" in the Advaita (and I say expressed as opposed to "hidden") is 1=0, which will only produce contradictions in language, meaning in the attempt to explain non-duality, it winds up creating duality as an impression with a bunch of unresolved contradictions, which Crowley saw.

Additionally, the Theosophists were doing a horribly brutal job with the concept as well.

It simply may not have been possible to discussion "non-duality" in language in Crowley's time, too much need to change in history and consciousness for him to be able to do that.

The non-duality of Thelema is along the same current of the non-duality of the Himalayan tantrics, the Buddhist and the Bonpo.

The tantriks of India, somewhere between 900 AD and 1100AD if I have my time correct, were being persecuted by the Muslims in India and had to get out.

So around that time, all of the initiates "high tailed" it out of India to escape and took the work, took the "conversation" about Non-Duality into Tibet, and then Tibet was sealed off from the rest of the world for 1000 years.

Crowley never got to peak into the "current" teaching of Non-Duality.

There were no "current" teachings of Non-Duality in the world at the time of Crowley, they were all holed up in Tibet.

 

"Advaita is a Sanskrit word that translates as “not two” or “no second.” This gives the idea that the inner Self, or Atman, is the same as the Absolute Reality, that is Brahman." -Yogapedia

 

Perfect example. Correct, it only means "not two". Then the assumption somewhere in the historical dialectic then had a "concept" about what "not two" means and then made it mean "1".

Well, 3 is also not 2, and to understand non-duality, you need 3, that is, if you do not wish to produce contradictions.

 

Posted by: @pertinax

Practicing non-duality on the intellectual plane is probably the toughest balancing act I can think of.

Well, thanks to O'Sensei, that is true! Imagine however before Aikido, duality would have been a far more "tough" balancing act.

In practice, "non-duality" on the intellectual plane is far far easier than non-duality in a violent physical confrontation.

We just normally neither have the proper environment or tools to work it through, but Liber al Vel Legis contains all of these tools.

Posted by: @pertinax
I honestly hadn't noticed this. You seemed to be coming from a slightly different angle, in some ways similar to my own, hence my responding. What I was sensing more than anything is a genuine desire to learn and share your ideas not out of egotism, but out of enthusiasm, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I see you don't get the joke 😉 Back to the dojo until it clicks.

No Joking in the Dojo!

O'Sensei said in clear language, the secret of Aikido are THREE Shapes not TWO directions!

Back to the mat with you!

(do you notice it now? hehe)

Posted by: @dom

I feel like such as snitch.

Is this the guilt of a good stern parent dealing with an unruly offspring?

 

Well it depends upon what you all want to do with this forum. If you just want 'announcements' and stuff, that may be great but it may interfere with robust community building.

And here I am, sharing an evolved Non-Dual interpretation of Thelema, giving Lashtal the only place in the world where I see myself ever sharing this, thus making a contribution to the community and website in a unique manner, which is my true will! 

This thread was the only "live" thread yesterday. I mean...why restrict expression when it is done in good faith, for the good of the community and lashtal?

So the irony is noted 🙂

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6159
Topic starter  
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

why restrict expression when it is done in good faith, for the good of the community and lashtal?

Because LAShTAL.com is privately owned and The Coming One, who came forth, says, "No Serial Posting."


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @shiva

Because LAShTAL.com is privately owned and The Coming One, who came forth, says, "No Serial Posting."

Exactly, and I am contributing to the IP of Lashtal, what is mine is yours!

It is okay!

I have transmuted Lashtal into a gnostic training camp, and this restriction placed upon me has now liberated me 🙂

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6159
Topic starter  
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

I have transmuted Lashtal into a gnostic training camp

Oh shit! I made a mistake. You are The Coming One ... who has come ... to instruct us mortals.


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1854
 

“ In the Brahim philosophy, the Rishis explained the Universe by saying that God created it. The question instantly arose, “ Who created God ? “ To answer this it was necessary to make God self sustaining, and therefore they proceeded to analyze His attributions. In the end it was found that any positive attributions not only implied limitations, but led directly back to the original mass of ignorance; and they were accordingly forced to conclude by denying all qualities or quantities soever to the Supreme God. In other words they found themselves obliged to reduce their God to Nothing.

The Chinese, being more practical, cut out all the waste work and started with the Nothing of the Great Extreme, which we may consider as really the equivalent of the Dao. We represent this Dao geometrically by a point. But since this Dao is not only Nothing but also non existent in respect to all other possible predicates, it turns out on analysis that a thing which is in no way no thing may just as well be regarded as something.

The Chinese, perceiving that the Dao is so purely Nothing that it must be Something, or at least only capable of apprehension by symbolizing it as Something, took an original pair of opposites; they called these the Yi or Yao. These lines are called respectively Yang and Yin, the Yang being unbroken and the Yin a broken line. These correspond to the masculine and feminine principles. They may be called the Father and the Mother. Dao simply breaks up into Dao and De, Shiva and Shakti. “

Aleister Crowley The Equinox Vol 5 No 3 pg 472

“I also studied all varieties of Asiatic Philosophy, …, the Sufi doctrines, the Upanishads, the Samkhya, vedanta, the Bhagavad Gita and Purana, the Dhammapada, and many other classics, together with numerous writings on Tantra “
Aleister Crowley The Equinox Vol 5 No 3 pg 56

I guess we will be told about the upgrade to the current Non-Duality principles by those that profess to an intimate knowledge of Vajrayana and Crowley; and that they know better; ad nauseam.


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6159
Topic starter  
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

This is what the revelation of Liber al Vel Legis is telling us. That's a false idea, its not possible, its a symptom of duality. The mind does not stop

We have a whole thread on this topic. The general consensus was that the mind cannot stop itself. That is, we cannot stop our mind through mental effort or mystical tricks.

Since that time (of the ancient multilogue about stoppage), I have found this (consensus) to be untrue. But there are qualifications ...

There are two levels of mind (maybe three, but not now) ...

1. The human, linear mind, and
2. The universal mind.

The human linear mind  depends on a reference point we call "me." "Me" is governed by the "internal dialog," aka "monkey mind," which runs incessantly and has been identified physiologically and psychologically as what we call Choronzon.

It was @Ignant666 who pointed out that one must "turn off the talking part of the mind." That's Choronzon. (The mind still functions, and one can perceive greater mysteries and solutions ... but this is not the limited talking mind).

Perdurabo outlined how to handle Choronzon (along with his/its qualities) in the 10th AEthyr. ("Silence"). So anyone can start (the stoppage) there. Also, I have published three (3) techniques for stopping the linear (talking) mind. They are listed in The Master Codex.

I refer to The Train of Thoughts, The Gaps in thinking, and the StopLine maneuver.

It is not necessary to stop the train, the refrain, the mumbling, permanently. That comes later. One merely needs only the smallest millisecond of gap or command. It is like a crack in a veil. Crowley described it. Deepak Chopra described it. Jack Schwarz described it. And I have gone on to describe them all in one place ... maybe two. Even U.G. admitted there were "tricks of meditation" and the concept of "touch and go."

So, anyway, this concept (STOP) lies at the very heart of aspiration. One cannot check in to The Binah Hotel unless they have stopped (the voices).


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1854
 

Yeah Shiva has it hooked up right
i mean

" I must be twisted somehow, because I have no problem with Atma, in his manifestation as RHK or Allah. Does Crowley not realize that V.V.V.V.V., the Light of the World himself, is the left hand of Atma? Didn't he figure out that Therion, the 2000-year Magus himself, is the right hand of Atma?

And Atma himself, undivided into left and right, is called The Monad by the Theosophists and their off-shoots. The Monad is One, but it's hard to find - because it has No Dimensions. A point has no depth, width, or breadth. Effectively, it is Nothing, and AC should be happy. But science call this a String (see: String Theory). It has no dimensions (um, okay) ... but it vibrates in ten dimensions. Even the entry-level Qabalist can put this puzzle together.

There may be a 2=0 movement, without a One, but Science and Theosophy say "It ain't Nuthin."

Well, the Monists stop at Kether. If they pushed on, to pre-Atma, we come to Adi. Adi is equivalent to Rigpa. Perdurabo endured to the end, not stopping at The White House, and he saw that Atma, God, Allah were one big illusion with different names, created by the Mind. The process and the vision is called Shivatmadarshana.

So how can daily life be non-illusionary if it is created by an illusionary Monarch?

This has been a presentation of Monality and Nonality, with reference to the One and the None. A solution, resolution, or dissolution has not been identified, so don't take this to church or the bank. "

posted by Shiva

how cool is that ?

 


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @shiva

Oh shit!

Yay! You get the first prize! You get it!

Shit is the "key" in the third chapter of how to arrive at Sunyata! 

Haha, how Crowley is that?

"Shit" clarifies that there is only ONE definitive teaching of Sunyata, and an infinite number of provisional teachings on this Great Mystery, for everything is teaching the mystery of sunyata through the eternal dialogue of wisdom and compassion!

And this great riddle clarifies to the initiates, at this time, the wheel of dharma has made discovery easier than ever before, and the Golden Age is ahead of schedule, with an abundant surplus for a war-engine!

Posted by: @shiva

You are The Coming One ... who has come ... to instruct us mortals.

This is great! I hope I don't let you down!

So far we are doing a good job, team!

Re-building this community from the ruins of dualism 🙂

Before last week, all of us were nothing more than a bunch of bozos to each other with fat asses, and now look at what our brother hood looks like to each other! 

Was it the great tush? Is that the sign of the coming one? Is that what made you change your mind?

hehe

I except the role of your coming one! But remember, I stand on the shoulders of giants, for @Dom is my superior in the AA, and @Tiger my Holy Guru!

Funny, it appears I am also Sensei to only one, instructing  @pertinax  into the definitive Secret teaching and secret technique of Aikido! What an honor for me to be able to share this with him, may he take it far and wide, learning the secret of the three movements, and learning the highest secret in Aikido is not to slam someone down on the mat DOWN, but to slam them on the mat so they fall UP!

What a wild party this is turning into.

Hey who is the "owner" guy at Lashtal, the buzz kill?

I'm sorry, I meant buzz "fill". hehe

Can he join?

Who is next?

It is my Holy Guru!

May I make him an offering, may he be the wish fulfilling jewel, the diamond lama who comes to teach, Aum Ha aH Hum!

 

Posted by: @tiger

Aleister Crowley The Equinox Vol 5 No 3 pg 472

“I also studied all varieties of Asiatic Philosophy, …, the Sufi doctrines, the Upanishads, the Samkhya, vedanta, the Bhagavad Gita and Purana, the Dhammapada, and many other classics, together with numerous writings on Tantra “
Aleister Crowley The Equinox Vol 5 No 3 pg 56

I guess we will be told about the upgrade to the current Non-Duality principles by those that profess to an intimate knowledge of Vajrayana and Crowley; and that they know better; ad nauseam.

Thank you Guru! yes, I will not disappoint you, and it is an honor you have bestowed upon me.

You have brought the PERFECT summary of the issue that is being corrected.

Aleister Crowley DID have all of the contents, however he had them in the outdated form of the historical discussion in terms of language.

It simply may not have been possible to introduce non-duality into language as a clear, concise, practical manner in 1904, as it is now.

Non-Duality is for practical every day life!

Crowley was exposed to the Hindu Tantrics, NOT the VajraYana, as you know! But it was FROM the Hindu Tantriks they he learned the mystery of Sunyata through the purification of shit.

And the update makes it easy.

We do not have to test our grade by finding the purity in all things by eating shit like the hindu tantriks can do, we only have to look at the word shit as empty, and not see shit when we read it!

The Vajrayana, and especially Kalachakra, are the historical embodiment of the Golden Age and Time specifically, and Crowley's work contains this historical formula, identical in nature!

Discussions, time, conversations are all influenced by the White Magick of the Vajrayana, for at least one thousand years in the historical sense, and at least two thousand years in the tantric sense.

At the time, Crowley would have no way of knowing that the tantrics of the Hindu were "teaching" the non-duality of the Advaita because they had outdated language!

And while these two schools share much much much in common, Vajrayana is the current historical update, since all of the initiates in India were being persecuted by the Muslims, the historical conversation around tantra went to Tibet for 1000 years, shut off from the rest of the world.

And Crowley even did some translations of the Dhammapada, actually in 1903, the year before he received Liber al Vel Legis, Crowley's mind was SEEPED in Buddhism, but NOT Vajrayana, so he had no idea that he was receiving The complete teaching of the Himalayan system of Magick, Sunyata, which explains ALL THE PREVIOUS systems he studied!

But this is more than "just" the Vajrayana, for it is the summary of the two truths, for both east and west.

And that is what Crowley did, he installed the update in 1904, and when we look at the 20th Century, we see that Liber al Vel Legis is predictive in text of all the coming literary movements of the 20th Century as well! From Godel's deconstruction of math, The Rite of Spring's deconstruction of music, before James Joyce, and ee cummings, and even before the French deconstructionists themselves.

To build the golden age is to deconstruct the current age, there is no difference.

And Guru, you honor me to say that it would be "me" who would inform the community of the upgrade, but I am just a slouch on this couch!

I've done no work for this, I simply read the paralogical language, it is CROWLEY who has told us about this update, the update is Liber al Vel Legis!

My only contribution to this great work is, as many have already noted, my great tush 🙂

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


wellreadwellbred
(@wellreadwellbred)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 1163
 

Shiva: "So how can daily life be non-illusionary if it is created by an illusionary Monarch?"

 

Said question is irrelevant to the Thelema associated with A.C., as it disregards deities as conventionally understood ( – BOTL Chapter III: "49. I am in a secret fourfold word, the blasphemy against all gods of men. 50. Curse them! Curse them! Curse them!" – ), and proclaims a kind of atheism: ""There is no god but man." Liber Oz (= Book 77)."

That is, even the most advanced and complete attainment according to this Thelema, is not in any way shape or form, dependant on any of "... all gods of men.", as conventionally understood, of course also including "the Supreme God" Tiger posted about 18/05/2021 7:42 on this page in this thread, Brahman, the supreme Being "without quantity or quality."

And even the most advanced and complete attainment according to this Thelema, is also not in any way shape or form in conflict with its proclamation; "There is no god but man."


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1854
 

Too much inherently existing mine;
arising of an internal object,
an appropriator in dependence upon aggregates,
the agent and objects of mere imputation,
characterized phenomenon,
nominal self,
in the the transitory collection,
well known to deluded views,
the basis of bondage and liberation.


wellreadwellbred
(@wellreadwellbred)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 1163
 

"Said question is irrelevant to the Thelema associated with A.C., as it disregards deities as conventionally understood", [...] "That is, even the most advanced and complete attainment according to this Thelema, is not in any way shape or form, dependant on any of "... all gods of men.", as conventionally understood, ..."

The two sentences above used by me in a posting posted 19/05/2021 11:53 am in this thread, could with advantage have been written in the following way instead:

Said question is irrelevant to the Thelema associated with A.C., as it disregards deities as unserstood outside of or before A.C.'s Thelema.

That is, even the most advanced and complete attainment according to this Thelema, is not in any way shape or form, dependant on any of "... all gods of men.", as unserstood outside of or before A.C.'s Thelema.

Because the Thelema associated with Aleister Crowley, is based on the claim that all creeds ( – BOTL Chapter III: "53. With my claws I tear out the flesh of the Indian and the Buddhist, Mongol and Din. 54. Bahlasti! Ompehda! I spit on your crapulous creeds." – ), and all understandings of gods, goddess or deities, preceding it, are outdated, and/or ready for revision by Aleister Crowley, as the prophet of this Thelema:

 

"5. Behold! the rituals of the old time are black. Let the evil ones be cast away; let the good ones be purged by the prophet! Then shall this Knowledge go aright." (Source: BOTL, chater II.)

 

 


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6159
Topic starter  
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Shit is the "key" in the third chapter of how to arrive at Sunyata! 

I used the word in order to demonstrate surprise at my stupid error. But I cannot go off on a detailed description of its merits as I am the newly-elected (by me) president of the United Anti-copraphagic Council.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

So far we are doing a good job, team!

Oh?

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Was it the great tush?

It's a terrible thing to sit by and watch another person melt down.

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

And even the most advanced and complete attainment according to this Thelema, is also not in any way shape or form in conflict with its proclamation; "There is no god but man."

Deus est Homo. I greet you with the secret sign; we exchange the Word with the tricky grip and the first three regular steps. I believe this Latin phrase is the motto of the Oriental Templars. U.G. had a similar pronouncement.

 


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 
 
 
Posted by: @shiva

It's a terrible thing to sit by and watch another person melt down.

 

 🙄

Then why would you sit by then?

Shouldn't you help?

Offer some assistance?

I have some concerns as well, I gave a perfect example of meta language in demonstration and it appeared to go over your head!

The key to understanding 1/3rd of this conversation, and Liber Al Vel Legis view on non Duality is learning how to read "paralanguage" or meta language.

The entire book is written in meta language and so are some of my responses.

Meta Language is language that describes reality exactly how it appears to you, not how it appears in a concept, and the meta language, when written, will appear to be in contradiction to your concept, until you solve the riddle and the contradiction resolves.

I am going to give a very rational explanation of this language to you.

So "para" language, twilight language, meta language are the only ways to communicate reality how it appears instead of how reality conceptually appears, using concepts!

You will notice, that certain posts of mine have a different type of voice, character like almost, playful.

Perhaps the jokes don't land, but that's not what the para language wants you to read.

"meta language" is the language of the whole system, and unless you have the whole system viewpoint, you will not even know there is a meta language already there.

So for example, Margritte's famous painting shows the riddle of this type of language.

aSDasdasdasD

 

"This is not a pipe" seems like a contradiction when you are viewing a picture of a pipe, yet from the meta language perspective, it is true that this is not a pipe, the correct and accurate meta language is "This is a picture of a pipe" and until you know that, it appears as a contradiction at first to the conceptual mind, and then unlocked when you know the riddle.

This meta language is already in all of us, it is everywhere. Its also all over alchemical and tantric texts.

The first chapter explains the tools of the meta language of the whole book.

Divide, Add, Multiply, and Understand

The answer 0.12, is the meta language "key".

How can we tell?

By seeing how the numbers 0,1,2 are used on the number line, these three numbers are "meta" language  numbers of all math in the counting sense, because they form the rules that are the foundation for all math, even basic math we use today, and this language is identical to how Liber al Vel Legis is structured, so this is a "proof" of the system, it can be tested.

The "meta rules" of counting are thus:

On the number line, 0 is a placeholder for nothing. It has no value. Its not really there in the operation. We only use the number 0 just enough to show that it does not exist!

But if 0 did not exist, all addition would eventually produce contradictions. 0 then becomes the placeholder for the "whole system" of numbers in counting.

Note that this number does exist in one sense, and does not exist in another sense, and this can work in a practical application because since we are 4 years old we start to use this number in practical ways. 

The word "sunyata" in Sanskrit is the name for the number 0 in Sanskrit. So we do not even need to do an interpretation there. 

0 is para language for the whole system and all conclusions of what can represent a whole system, so all paradoxes, infinities, unions, transcendence, mysteries, all concepts that are unknown in our minds are also naturally encapsulated by this number 0, 0 is the transcendent in para language just as it is the transcendent on the number line.

So, it does not matter what language a medium is written in, it could be English, Spanish, Chinese, even symbolic languages, there will be certain words and certain topics that all will "nest" under the para logic of 0.

1 is the only "actual" real number. all numbers other than zero are just some permutation of the number 1, relative to how we need to count. As a paralanguage, this is a placeholder value for anything in reality that we perceive as "true", and "real", how things "actually" are. So this is a paralanguage for all language types that communicate these type of realities, like math, science, logic, etc

"2" is the placeholder for "symbolic" or representative reality. "2" is symbolic for the "actual" 1,1.

However, both "2" and "1,1" are communicating the same thing as a counting number, hence, "two" different ways to view and interpret text.

"2" is False as a logic value, but in para language, we learn that "false" means a different view of reality, another view that is absolutely "not" a true view like "1" is, but a view that is a creative representation of "1".

So, I hope I didnt make this more complex than it is, because it is just the difference between a "statue of david" and "david" as he exists in actual reality, not the representation of him.

0,1,2 as a paralanguage is the same para language of "tao, yin, yang" same! Its funny to see that this consistency is found in all expressions of this meta language.

0 = mystery as a paralanguage as and a formal system of logic. It has no meaning other than unknown or "strange" Chp 3 is written in this para language.

1 = True and actual and certain as a para language and "true" in a formal system of logic. This gives us "certainty". Chp 1 of Liber al is written in this language

2 = Art, symbol, theater, deception, fake, poetry, expressive, and "false" in a formal logic system. Chp 2 is written from the perspective of this meta language.

aSDasdasdasD

So in meta language, a painting, any art, is all "2", it is a symbolic language.

The phrase "This is not a pipe" is "true" in metalanguage, and appears false in conceptual language until we resolve it, get the riddle.

And everything has 012 in it, our bodies, nature, minds, all text religious or otherwise, everything can be deconstructed into this "ternary" meta language that is naturally occurring in our minds.

All life evolved with this meta language

We all know daytime with the sun, nigh time with midnight, and "both night and day, at once" at sunset.

The whole system of earth is always "both day and night at once"

So as para language describes reality EXACTLY as it appears to all of us, so is the instruction in Dzokden meditation.

Just view everything as it is in the pure state. This is why EYES ARE WIDE OPEN.

Great all thoughts, they are all just 0, 1, or 2 like everything else, they are all in the pure state.

Dzokden level meditation, which is the accomplishment of Sunyata, has one instruction.

Everything is permitted, confront everything, rush to great everything, for "everything" is already pure, already in the pure and absolute state.

Simply view reality how it appears to you. That's all. No stopping mind, stopping thoughts, stopping anything. Anything that you are worried about stopping is the thing to confront and bring into emptiness.

Nothing is standing in the way of this state.

We just forgot how to recognize it. That is all!

C'mon amigo! I thought you got the jokes and show!

Do not misread the runes! Your projection on me was information that was coming from YOU! Thus, the para language, as a dialectic, a form of communication, is a whole system psychology and dialectic as a formal system.

And it is embedded in Liber al Vel Legis in 1904.

I am actually quite proud of my presentation of para language and can't wait to apply it again 🙂

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6159
Topic starter  
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Then why would you sit by then?

Shouldn't you help?

Offer some assistance?

Sitting by is the only course possible - after one has tried to help, and assistance is refused.

P.S. LAShTAL is neither a "Thelemic" Site, an "Occult" Sight, or The Red Cross. If you are having an Emergency, Call 911.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

I gave a perfect example ...

Your opinion is noted, and may be entered into the Record.
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

I am actually quite proud of my presentation ...

Uh-huh.


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 

 

 

Posted by: @shiva

So, anyway, this concept (STOP) lies at the very heart of aspiration. One cannot check in to The Binah Hotel unless they have stopped (the voices).

This is not the teaching in Dzokden.

Nothing is stopped. No concepts of anything are necessary to achieve Sunyata. Binah is just the first experience of Sunyata and non-duality.

NOTHING changes, everything is exactly the same, except the view is non-dual, in the clear light, and this is consistent with all Dzokden traditions.

Voices are voices, thoughts are thoughts, all in the clear state.

Posted by: @shiva

Sitting by is the only course possible - after one has tried to help, and assistance is refused.

P.S. LAShTAL is neither a "Thelemic" Site, an "Occult" Sight, or The Red Cross. If you are having an Emergency, Call 911.

Apparently, conversations about non-duality can cause extreme misinterpretations by those on the edge! 

While you are basking in your dualistic "judgement" of my state of mind, based on your concepts about other concepts about other concepts, I have been in extreme bliss, the "theater" of what I posted is showing the "non-dual" view of how tantra works in things like "guru yoga" and lineage yoga.

Instead of learning how the language of this works, as I am explaining in the most rational of language, you got attached to your concept, and are grasping, still.

That does not happen in Binah or above, and therefore, you probably should not comment on any activity above the abyss yet, or non-duality at all, for you are leading the community into confusion, as you appear to not yet be able to distinguish between concept and the actual state, rational exposition and theatrical exposition!

I hope you don't call 911 when you watch Adam-12 on TV, seeing the "robber" break into a house!

 

 

 

 

 

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Because the Thelema associated with Aleister Crowley, is based on the claim that all creeds ( – BOTL Chapter III: "53. With my claws I tear out the flesh of the Indian and the Buddhist, Mongol and Din. 54. Bahlasti! Ompehda! I spit on your crapulous creeds." – ), and all understandings of gods, goddess or deities, preceding it, are outdated, and/or ready for revision by Aleister Crowley, as the prophet of this Thelema:

 

In the non-dual view, all deities are created in the mind. They do not exist independently of mind, they are considered "self arising", empty of self, just like humanity is. So the text above is consistent with this view. Especially the line "I Spit your crapulous creeds" is where the "key" to interpreting this in non-dual language, because if you look at the original manuscript, Crowley did not handwrite " I spit" he clearly wrote " I SHIT on your crapulous creeds", which is far more harsh than "spit"

So Crowley DID change the style of the letter here, and the text itself says "Change NOT the style of the letter, for "in the chance shape" shall be the mystery. What the "chance" shape is the P looks clearly like an H.

Why does this confirm as the key to the text? In Hindu tantra, one test of high attainment in the "old aeon", was for the initiate to actually eat "shit" to prove that they have achieved Sunyata, which is perceiving the underlying "purity" that all things have, gods, mice, shit even is all pure in Sunyata.

So the line RHK is actually paying a compliment to world systems "I shit on your crapulous creeds" means "I see the underlying purity, and through the Wisdom of RHK, we can see that all systems are teaching "sunyata", either in the definitive state or the provisional state. These are the "two truths" of Buddhism, there must always be two types of teaching, definitive and provisional, and you need BOTH to understand the teaching.

Hope this clears that up!

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1854
 

Uninitiated
interpreters mix their own fabrications with Tantra.
Adventitious obscurations confusing the reflection as real,
not using the mirror to clean their face;
but using skillful means to eat shit,
not to transmute defilements,
but as a means
of craving waste;
creating
the mental illnesses
of Coprophagia;
the stained
deviation of mind
into elaborations
and need for excess.

Primordial empty openness cannot be told.
quietus


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @tiger

quietus

🤣 🤣 🤣 

Someone should tell that to the Taoists, who have given us the Tao De Jing, the Buddhists who have contributed hundreds of thousands of teachings, written and preserved for future generations for two thousand years, and most importantly Crowley, who had the "balls" to actually write about his attainment quite often, coked out of his mind.

No one in this thread was "quiet" when it started, but I see that they are certainly "quiet" when their contradictions are exposed, usual reason is out of fear of how they will be perceived, you know, ego reasons. This is quite predictable, by the way. 

Two of the members here who are "claiming" to be Aikido adepts have failed to even follow the philosophy of Aikido, which is confronting conflict!

I am hoping they will come around, for the formula says "Lurk, withdraw, upon them!"

Welcome to the conflict of concepts!

Ya'll can do better 🙂

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6159
Topic starter  
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

This is not the teaching in Dzokden.

So? Since it is what works, who cares? The Great Perfection is a state, and the "teaching" is what some people say about it.

"Sit still. Shut up. Stop thinking. Get out." This is the agenda that P.'. recommended. I will admit it is the beginner's mode, but where else can one start? Later, with experience, one will get to the (non)-place where such actions are no longer required.

It's not only a case of "Do not confuse the planes," but also "Do not confuse the abilities or the state of the student/aspirant."

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Apparently, conversations about non-duality can cause extreme misinterpretations by those on the edge! 

Actually, it can happen in any thread about any subject. "April 8, 1904" is a good example. 

I already warned about what you are supposing [^]. In my books and videos, and even on these threads, I am known to constantly issue the warning about concepts and conversations relating to the supernals, ego-loss, non-dualism, monism vs nihilism vs polytheism, that sort of thing, cannot be "true" and "not mis-interpreted" unless it (any statement) contains it's opposite. We call this a "paradox."

image
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

I have been in extreme bliss, the "theater" of what I posted is showing the "non-dual" view of how tantra works in things like "guru yoga" and lineage yoga.

Uh-huh.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

as I am explaining in the most rational of language

Please refer to Geburah and the Electric neurocircuit. This is where one's conception or perception of reality is measured against reality itself.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

That does not happen in Binah or above, and therefore, you probably should not comment on any activity above the abyss yet, or non-duality at all, for you are leading the community into confusion, as you appear to not yet be able to distinguish between concept and the actual state, rational exposition and theatrical exposition!

Uh-huh.

Posted by: @tiger

Uninitiated ... interpreters mix their own fabrications with Tantra.

No shit? I always suspected this was true.

Posted by: @tiger

Primordial empty openness cannot be told.

Aha! Oh-ho! Hmmm? That's what is bent here. Too much telling.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

No one in this thread was "quiet" when it started, but I see that they are certainly "quiet" when their contradictions are exposed

There are very few anyones or somebodies are posting in this thread. Tiger and I have chosen to run along with you, filling in the paradoxes as we go, in order to provide equilibrium, which is The Word of the Law in the Aeon of Maat ... now showing here and there in this Vale of Tiers.

WellRead can always be counted on to provide a quote or two that pertains to the subject at hand. Lashtal (the persona not the site) came and went in order to preserve (restore) equilibrium.

Otherwise, most posters have better things to do, like preserving their sanity.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Two of the members here who are "claiming" to be Aikido adepts

I have not seen a single claim regarding "Adeptship" or such a thing like "Mastery." I see you have now qualified for the usual invitation. Normally, this would involve you being invited to drop by the dojo (when you're in the neighborhood) in order to demonstrate your Ki. But this is no longer possible. The dojo is closed because of dying and sick people.

Anyone was invited to drop by the domicile ... but only if they had the password. J.J. Barter, who seems absent these days from these threads, learned about the password and the admission to sanctuary from the hostile Indians.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Ya'll can do better

Your condescension precedes you, and it follows us all through any thread you chose. This may change when you realize that we are playing with you in your attempts to reveal the mysteries. 

 


Pertinax
(@pertinax)
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 83
 

@sangewanchuck56

When you first turned up, you were courteous enough, and made for interesting conversation. Addressing topics we take an interest in; 0=2, aiki, the rest, offering a perspective unfamiliar to us in its outward expression, that of Dzogchen.

You had a place at the table, so to speak. For a brief period, all was well.

This seems to have affected your manners, you dominated the conversation (serial long-winded posts), given an inch, you took a mile.

An honoured guest who forgets his manners will not be honoured for long, to paraphrase the Chuang Tze.

Conversation turned to pontification, condescension, and then challenges to our self-importance when you felt ignored, attempts to draw our your admirers, your adversaries. The game is clear.

I see no need to continue interacting with you at this point. I am neither trying to defend myself or teach you anything. I respectfully bow out. Do what thou wilt.

 


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6159
Topic starter  
Posted by: @pertinax

I see no need to continue interacting with you at this point. I am neither trying to defend myself or teach you anything. I respectfully bow out. Do what thou wilt.

Kime. (Japanese for "focused Chi").


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 

 Closing Thesis: Non-Duality and Thelema.

 

For me, this entire conversation on this forum is a historical milestone. I want to share a bit from my view what this looks like, I think that is fair and I think that I owe this to you.

“Non-Duality”, both as an actual state and experience, including all of the veils, and as it can take form in multiple ways of teaching and representation, both East and West, is a huge part of my life and life’s work, both externally as a designer and writer, continually seeking states of inspiration for craft, and internally as a devotional practice.

Because I do not run in “Thelemic” circles, I have always assumed that the natural dialectic of Liber Al vel Legis and the inherent non-duality it contains was common knowledge.

Nuit’s tool for non-duality, disclosed in the text, directly tell us to “use to understand”, are the numbers 0,1,2

That is not a “projection” of mine, all I am doing both in this conversation, and in interpreting Liber Al vel Legis, is reading the text in this paralanguage of 0,1, 2.

I am not trying to interpret anything, I am not trying to discover anything, I am simply reading the text as a work of literature, and following what it tells me to do with this language, that is all.

This paralanguage I became aware of, as well as the natural state, independent of Liber al Vel Legis, 20 years ago.

Back then, I was very curious to discover that this paralanguage of 0,1,2 that I learned from other sources could be used to read the first chapter of Liber al Vel Legis, at least to me.

I assumed it was a coincidence of sorts that it did. I was not aware that at the time, I had “two” keys to understanding the text already and that is why it appeared like I could “read” it in this language, because Liber al Vel Legis is written in this paralanguage!

The paralanguage is a language I am deeply familiar with on many “planes” as Shiva would say, and my work specifically is applying this paralanguage into real world practical applications, using non-duality to assist developing large consensus between various viewpoints, and designing algorithms that insure mass consensus can only resolve in mutual resolution as the only possible psychological and mathematical outcome.

I believe Shiva would refer to that as “malkuth”. My work is bringing non-duality into “malkuth”, making it available in a simple way to resolve some very very complex problems, especially in communication online.

So, reading Liber al Vel Legis in this paralogical language and then bringing this non-dual dialectical process to this forum to test how that would play out produced the discovery of the secret key of it all. 

Without intention on my part!

I wish to propose that the discovery of the secret key in Liber al Vel Legis occurred in this conversation because it is “our” true will for this to be revealed, I really have no other explanation other than that.

The paralanguage of Liber al Vel Legis allows us to take a line of text from the book, any line, and then view the different variations the text can be viewed “through the veils”, the different interpretations as well as the one “definitive” meaning and then compared to the actual truth, the “actual state”.

These “veils” of Sunyata are the three “negative veils” of existence above the tree, but when looking at this in paralanguage we see that all of the sephirot themselves are also veils of sunyata, and each veil communicates this one mystery in different ways, each a different degree away from the actual state of sunyata, and a degree away from the “definitive” teaching of sunyata above in the highest sephirot, and a continual degree away from “provisional teachings” of Sunyata all the way down to malkuth, through the sephirot.

So, for example taking one line of text from Liber al Vel Legis “The Khabs is in the Khu, not the Khu in the Khabs”, this would be the teaching in Keter, Binah, and Chokmah, each within a very very small variation of this, above the abyss.

To understand it “a little”, we want to see what some “provisional” interpretations can be of this text as we move down the tree from Keter to malkuth.

So in tephirot, for example, the “khabs is in the khu” can be interpreted as “the stars are in the light, not the light is in the stars” to give us a “temporary” view, not as “high as Keter” to understand but as reachable to understand as Tiphereth.

In Malkuth, we can take the text all the way down to “The brain is in the mind, not the mind in the brain” to obtain the provisional view, but the necessary one, for it is in malkuth where the interpretation helps us make sense of the whole.

How the text changes in meaning is dependent on the types of conversations we are having, both internally with ourselves, and externally with each other.

The paralanguage of Liber al Vel Legis teaches us that there is always the pure and absolute state, experience, which can never be placed into language, this is true. 

However, we have lost the natural state, and we need to find our way back, and to do this, there “must” be a definitive teaching, and there must also be a “provisional, or temporary teaching” and ALL THREE are necessary to achieve Sunyata.

So there is the absolute state as experience, yet there is a definitive teaching of the state, how to find it, how to work with it, how to “make magick” with it.

And there then are “many” provisional teachings, each teaching lower than the next, further and further removed from the natural state, lower and lower on the tree, yet still leading back to the natural state, if one knows how to read the paralanguage, back up the tree for rediscovery of Sunyata in all of her forms.

To read the paralanguage is to understand the relationships that naturally exist between the numbers 0,1, and 2. 

The  paralanguage operating with numbers is in how those numbers all work together to create the dynamic of an infinite number line and the foundation of all mathematics.

For a mathematician would call it “0, 1, and infinity”, Nuit just keeps it simple, calling it 0,1,2.

This same paralanguage is in our bodies, as O Sensei taught in relation to non-dual violent resolution.

To show you how seamlessly paralogical languages can be used to translate one system into another, let’s look at Aikido’s “secrets” as defined by O Sensei, the circle, the square, and the triangle, and lets see how they match with the paralogic of 0, 1, and 2.

0 = Mystery, Sunyata as state of experience in Liber Al,  the “triangle” in O’Sensei’ language representing force in movement that is “omni-directional”

1 = True, The definitive teaching, the “actual” meaning of the text, in O’Sensei’s language “the square”, or force that is “unidirectional”, the most stable, unmoveable.

2 = False, the provisional teaching, symbolic of the self, but not the self. In O’Sensei’s language “the sphere, non-directional force”

If you combine all forces, you have the dynamics of a full system, both in movement as well as in psychology, as well as in the communication of non duality itself, sunyata as an absolute state of being.

This same paralanguage is in the discussion happening between Nuit and Hadit through the scribe in Liber al Vel Legis.

And liber al vel legis is the first historical occurrence I can find that is self aware, of this paralanguage 0,1, and 2.

Another occurrence I find in this paralanguage is in Aikido!

My work is advancing this nondual paralanguage as a hyper rational and hyper intuitive language to be used to resolve very serious problems, a form of non-dual consensus building.

I’ve already completed that algorithm and I know for 100% certainty that it works, 100% of the time.

I applied it in these conversations, eagerly looking forward when all of these paralogical languages would come to a “tension” point, and then, according to the formula, should give us a “child”, a result of the application. 

For me this conversation was a test, not to see if it works, I already have absolute certainty there, it was a test to see what sort of synthesis would result!

This child was the discovery of the secret key in liber al vel legis!

I brought our conversation about non duality into the paralanguage of nonduality that I have been working with and developing for 20 years.

This was far from my first rodeo 🙂

Posted by: @shiva

Actually, it can happen in any thread about any subject. "April 8, 1904" is a good example. 

I propose that anything to do with Liber al Vel Legis is far from a good example of this “conflict of concepts” but the SOURCE example, as well as the “definitive” example of this psychological dynamic, played out par excellence, in these conversations.

I already warned about what you are supposing [^]. In my books and videos, and even on these threads, I am known to constantly issue the warning about concepts and conversations relating to the supernals, ego-loss, non-dualism, monism vs nihilism vs polytheism, that sort of thing, cannot be "true" and "not mis-interpreted" unless it (any statement) contains it's opposite. We call this a "paradox."

That’s almost a non dual view, just not complete. Please allow me to complete the formula.

ALL TRUTH, all of it, dual or non-dual (because all truth IS Non Dual!) must be presented with it’s anti-thesis as well as THE RESOLUTION to it’s thesis.

That is the 0, 1, and 2.

That is the Thesis, The Antithesis, and the Synthesis.

That is the complete formula.

All paradoxes resolve, continually in non-duality.

This Crowley was familiar with. Please read his poem ‘Antithesis’, The Twins.

Now look at the line in liber al vel legis “hail ye twin warriors about the pillars of the world!” meaning the “thesis” of the historical dialectic as a provisional interpretation in malkuth as it existed in 1904 coming into direct confrontation with its historical ANTI-THESIS in Malkuth.

Note how the introduction of Liber Al Vel Legis mentions the historical conversation between communism and capitalism collapsing.

Also note how the introduction talks about the three blind men and the elephant, they all cannot see the “equanimity” they all share in common, a stunningly simple and beautiful teaching of sunyata.

All non duality is just the play of opposites, harmonized. Some opposites are easy to harmonize, some are challenging.

Challenged opposites in this conversations were concepts about self and other, which Chapter 2 brilliantly details.

The natural state of concepts in duality is war and battle.

The “wars in heaven” play out in malkuth through disagreements about whose concepts about what are the most “true” or definitive as opposed to the almost infinite number of conflicting concepts about the same “concept”.

This has made our minds one big psychological mess.

I used these dynamics to highlight the non-dual view while we were having a conversation, disagreements, about the concepts of non-duality, how great to be able to do that!

Posted by: @shiva

Uh-huh.

 

Yup, 100%

Posted by: @shiva

Please refer to Geburah and the Electric neurocircuit. This is where one's conception or perception of reality is measured against reality itself.

That’s what the 0,1,2 paralogic shows us, how to refer to ALL of the sephirot. Please note dear Leary, whom I both knew and learned this from directly, detailed each circuit with THREE dialectical stages. Those three stages of each circuit are the paralanguage of the eight circuits, whereas the whole system is receiving, integrating, and broadcasting, all the time, conscious or not.

John Lilly called awareness of the paralanguage the “meta programmer”, where as this means what we believe is true is what makes something true, which later we can prove or disprove either through experience or through experiment.

For example

 

Posted by: @shiva

No shit? I always suspected this was true.

So Tiger’s quite false concept of me was made true by you via your text, which you input into both your mind and the minds of everyone reading it.

Thus, you introduced the “conflict of concepts” into our group mind, something we can all feel and intuit, but not define, in its "actual state".

And I was hoping you would, or anyone, would do this in this conversation, this is very important, for as you say the thesis, which are the concepts I am introducing to you now, were met with an “antithesis”, your concept of me and who I am, in dialectical opposition to the concept I am introducing about non duality.

Whenever anyone introduces any form of personal reference as somehow “proof” that the concept in the topic is “false” in any way is a sign that person is making dualistic choices in what should be a very non dual and collaborative process, quite stimulating.

Now, if one person is applying non-duality to the conversation while the person I am engaging with is not, I can predict within one behavior what their next response will be, and I will be able to maneuver around the conversation with them while they are stuck in duality with a certain grace that will seem unpredictable.

And I can predict that the more I apply the paralanguage, especially the paralogic of Hadit, which is very symbolic, metaphorical, theatrical, at that moment, a certain “tension” will be guaranteed to ignite, and produce a result, a child.

Posted by: @shiva

There are very few anyones or somebodies are posting in this thread. 

I too noted this phenomenon, and wondered if you were playing along with me. 

So i decided to test that hypothesis, “as brothers fight ye” with the ol “strike hard and low”, and engage your text with theater, a reversal of your projection of me.

Quite intentional.

As mentioned, this is not my first rodeo.

Tiger and I have chosen to run along with you, filling in the paradoxes as we go, in order to provide equilibrium, which is The Word of the Law in the Aeon of Maat ... now showing here and there in this Vale of Tiers.

Well, I believe you and Tiger are close! 

But you do not have the completion for Maat, for that you need the 0,1, and 2 which I am most honored to bring to you brother! I truly thought this would already be well known!

The Aeon of Maat is the Resolution of Liber al Vel Legis and it will happen through 0, 1, and 2!

WellRead can always be counted on to provide a quote or two that pertains to the subject at hand. Lashtal (the persona not the site) came and went in order to preserve (restore) equilibrium.

From the non-dual view of this conversation, there has been equilibrium the entire time, for as brothers we fight!

I was just "fighting with non-duality", and only the non dual view can get the joke, which is how you all told me you were not able to see the non dual view, for you could not read the para language of the conversation I was putting into it.

Fun stuff, right?

Otherwise, most posters have better things to do, like preserving their sanity.

Duality is insanity.

Non-duality is the clear state.

In Liber al Vel Legis, we see a union of duality, and non duality!

So we use the duality to reach the non-duality.

And this is how I know that whatever you say to me, in a non-dual conversation, is only what you know about yourself, just reversed in concept and projected back.

Non-dual conversation makes it easy for this shadow projection to emerge. 

Not my first rodeo!

Posted by: @shiva

I have not seen a single claim regarding "Adeptship" or such a thing like "Mastery." 

Well, all you have to do is read the text of those who wrote it, in plain language, devoid of your personal concept 🙂

Posted by: @shiva

I see you have now qualified for the usual invitation. Normally, this would involve you being invited to drop by the dojo (when you're in the neighborhood) in order to demonstrate your Ki. But this is no longer possible. The dojo is closed because of dying and sick people.

My friend, that already began, I have been testing your ki and everyone here since I have arrived.

O Sensei’s “secret” in Aikido, the three shapes, show how the movement of ki is through physical space.

The non dual language of 0, 1, 2 shows how Ki moves through psychological space.

Anyone was invited to drop by the domicile ... but only if they had the password. J.J. Barter, who seems absent these days from these threads, learned about the password and the admission to sanctuary from the hostile Indians.

As a sincere Aikidoka for over 20 years, I rush to greet all conflict and I seek our victory continuously!

 

Posted by: @shiva

Your condescension precedes you, and it follows us all through any thread you chose. This may change when you realize that we are playing with you in your attempts to reveal the mysteries. 

See, this was indeed my impression with a number of your comments.

We are mirrors.

One of us had the definitive projection, and the other the opposite, like a mirror.

To see which has which, we 0, 1, and 2, and then we can see we can share both, at once!

Posted by: @pertinax

When you first turned up, you were courteous enough, and made for interesting conversation. 

Thank you! I genuinely like you all, and pretty much feel the same way.

Addressing topics we take an interest in; 0=2, aiki, the rest, offering a perspective unfamiliar to us in its outward expression, that of Dzogchen. You had a place at the table, so to speak. For a brief period, all was well.

I know, and this was an honor for me! I have actually cried a few times in these conversations, they have  been so amazing! I wish you could feel my "state", not with your concepts, which are not for feeling or sensing, but feel my state with your state. If you feel harmony with me, then I am in harmony with you, even if I am not aware of it!

Compare your actual state of being with the concept you have.

This seems to have affected your manners, you dominated the conversation (serial long-winded posts), given an inch, you took a mile.

Well, I think this is a fair statement to say about me, truly!

I am aware I put a lot of information into this conversation, but I promise you, my intentions were this! These are good intentions! My intentions are in harmony! 100%!

And this is probably my last week of free time for quite sometime, so I also wanted to make sure I got the complete "thesis" in while I could.

So here forgive me! 

This was an amazing meeting of the minds, a real group alchemical process, and specifically you were essential in grounding this.

This may sound condescending when I say this, but I promise you I am not saying it from a place of condensation, but I used you as my “uke” to demonstrate something.

An honoured guest who forgets his manners will not be honoured for long, to paraphrase the Chuang Tze.

Where was I rude? Where was I disrespectful? Can you tell me?

Can you find the text, copy and paste it, bring it to my attention?

If I have been rude, I want to see where!

For if that is true that means I have made an error, and I wish to resolve that error with you, I wish to see you with me until resolution, and I invite you to practice, train this out, work it out, like two aikidokas on a mat, not demonstrating their ability to throw their opponents down on the mat, but to lift their spirits in harmony.

I am very specific with my language. I never use rude language.

I do use theatrical language at times, at the right exact time, and perhaps consider the concept you have in your mind was formed through misunderstanding?

Conversation turned to pontification, condescension, and then challenges to our self-importance when you felt ignored, attempts to draw our your admirers, your adversaries. The game is clear.

The game was “almost” clear, but hopefully now the game is crystal clear!

Welcome to non dual consensus building. I confronted you directly because I was reading what you were writing from a non dual perspective of the conversation, and I could tell you were being somewhat passive aggressive with me in your communication, you wanted to say something harsher, but did not want to seem impolite perhaps, and were holding back.

How did I know that? Well, you told me that in paralanguage.

I see no need to continue interacting with you at this point. I am neither trying to defend myself or teach you anything. I respectfully bow out. Do what thou wilt.

There is only one way to “lose” in non dual consensus building, and that is to leave the mat before resolution.

And if that is your choice, I accept!

I was honored to introduce you as an Aikidoka to this non-dual technique! And it is not a concept that I have that informs me, it is a state of being that informs me, I truly "feel" honored!

I confronted your misconception about the three shapes in Aikido with Heaven and Earth within a dialectic you would be familiar with in a Japanese Dojo, and I projected that dialectic theatrically at the exact moment you were projecting one or two false concepts about the conversation, and voila’

Because this energy was allowed to move psychologically the way it did in our exchange, we arrived at the secret key of it all, together!

Thank you and 93 back!

Ki, our mind intention energy, moves through the three shapes physically like our minds move through the 0, 1, and 2 on a number line!

Like Butter!

asdfasdfasdfsadf

 

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6159
Topic starter  

BREAKING NEWS

This is new, because they just released it. It reminds me of Rigpa, the vast void of emptiness - from which phenomena constantly arise and then dissipate.

 

"... the team behind the new work analysed 100 million galaxies.

"The map shows how dark matter sprawls across the Universe. The black areas are vast areas of nothingness, called voids, where the laws of physics might be different. The bright areas are where dark matter is concentrated. They are called "halos" because right in the centre is where our reality exists. In their midst are galaxies like our own Milky Way, shining brightly like tiny gems on a vast cosmic web."
 

the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1935
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

And at first I thought, well no one has ever mentioned this, and that is likely only how it looks to me, it it looks like RHK is saying he is going to take a shit on Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, etc

I mean, if it was "shit on", then Crowley certainly would NOT have changed that letter, right?

And if it is truly "shit", why didn't he?

Well, we have so many p's and h's nearby (even in the same sentence), and one doesn't need to be a graphologist or a forensic handwriting analyst to see it for oneself: No, it is a definite Crowley-P as in SPIT and absolutely not an H.

Love=Law

Lutz


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Well, we have so many p's and h's nearby (even in the same sentence), and one doesn't need to be a graphologist or a forensic handwriting analyst to see it for oneself: No, it is a definite Crowley-P as in SPIT and absolutely not an H.

Love=Law

Lutz

If you want to falsify what the "real" word is, you would follow the steps you've already taken.

If you want to follow the steps that Liber al Vel Legis tells us to take:

 

  • Look close into the word
  • Listen to the word
  • Do not change a letter
  • Consult the original manuscript
  • If a letter is changed, consult RHK
  • In the "chance" shape of the letter, here is wisdom

 

We arrive at quite an insight into non-duality and the achievement of Sunyata (above the abyss), with three distinct ways to arrive at the "natural state" in each Chapter.

If you want to falsify what the word just "looks" like, not what the word is, but what it looks like, without any bias of knowledge of the text, you simply show the word to people unfamiliar with it all, and ask them what they think the word "looks" like.

100% of all of them, through my falsification, has said it looks like shit.

Does changing the word from "I SPIT on your crapulous creeds" alter or change the face value of the line?

Not at all, it intensifies it.

Does the word "shit" have special meaning through appealing directly to Crowley's writings? Yes

Would Crowley the great juvenile be aware that his word "spit" looks like the word "shit" to others?

Yes, he would be aware of that, likely finding it humorous.

Would any type of "higher intelligence" working with Crowley be aware that his written word and printed word would "appear" different?

Sure, otherwise we would not refer to it as "higher intelligence".

Does the word "shit" as the secret key in the text help us unlock further meaning, and is this meaning consistent, relying ONLY on appeal to Crowley's writings?

Yes, 100%

 

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1854
 

So why would the scribe who heard the text and wrote it; mistake his own writing style and read it as Spit ?


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 

If we choose to go down the "numerology" route, gematria, Kabbalah, etc we can compare the difference between "I SPIT/SHIT on your crapulous creeds."

Using gematrix.org for this purpose (if anyone has a reason why I should not, please advise) we find the following: https://www.gematrix.org/?word=i+shit+on+your+crapulous+creeds&view_rude=on

I Shit On Your Crapulous Creeds in Jewish Gematria equals: 1927
 
This gives us "equanimity" with the following phrases
 
  • "You have the seed of Christ"
  • "Who is the abomination of desolation?"
  • "My name is Yahweh"
  • "Cosmic connection with a stargate." (fun stuff!)
 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1935
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

If you want to falsify what the word just "looks" like, not what the word is, but what it looks like, without any bias of knowledge of the text, you simply show the word to people unfamiliar with it all, and ask them what they think the word "looks" like.

Well, there you go: 100% of the people I asked read "spit". (I could just ask my son and my neighbour, because I never did it before or even thought about doing it). I am sure there is a lot of fun to be had when you show people only one word and let them decipher it. Let's find more words. If you show them the whole sentence nobody would read "shit", even if totally unaware of what they are reading. If you wait a few more years nobody will actually know what handwriting is.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Does the word "shit" as the secret key in the text help us unlock further meaning, and is this meaning consistent, relying ONLY on appeal to Crowley's writings?

Yes, 100%

Well, absolutely not. Since he did not write it, it is only consistent with what some people (all of those you asked apparently) like to "read into" his handwriting, not with what he wrote.

But since you are 100% sure, I don't want to spoil the fun. Maybe you are on to something...

Unfortunately I can only concentrate on that little snippet of yours (the pic helped!) and don't have time for the whole sermon at the moment.

 

Love=Law

Lutz


Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @tiger

So why would the scribe who heard the text and wrote it; mistake his own writing style and read it as Spit ?

Well the first answer to that question we should apply what we learn in Hadit's Chapter 2, and that answer, to be 100% certain, is unknown, mystery.

We cannot know, nor can we ever know, what Crowley "heard" in that room.

We know that we cannot trust Crowley to give us anything other than a "hagiography" because that is what Crowley also tells us.

Failing to see this as a "mystery" means that we will be relying on our "concepts" of what we "think" is real, so I am still following the paralanguage through all of these steps, continuing to appeal only to the text including Crowley's writings.

We can only summarize the following.

  • The scribe is unconscious of this "mystery", which the text does claim about the scribe.
  • This means that scribe may not have to know, only the "children" in the future will see this.
  • It is also possible that the scribe is conscious of this mystery, perhaps in a manner we do not understand.
  • It is possible that the scribe is both aware in some sense, and not aware in another sense.
  • It is possible that  Liber al Vel Legis is neither written by Crowley, nor can it be said to be written by a form of "higher intelligence", for it maybe that this "Great Work" is collaborative, and a work co-written by Crowley as well as co-written by Higher Intelligence, which the text tells us, asking Crowley to "write in" stuff later, especially the comment.

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1935
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Would any type of "higher intelligence" working with Crowley be aware that his written word and printed word would "appear" different?

Sure, otherwise we would not refer to it as "higher intelligence".

Are you suggesting this is one more proof for the praeterhuman/supernatural source of the book?

 

Love=Law

Lutz


Page 2 / 4
Share: