Self and Will in Th...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Self and Will in Thelema  

Page 11 / 13
  RSS

grouchotrout
(@grouchotrout)
Member
Joined: 4 months ago
Posts: 10
28/07/2020 7:57 am  

Oh, and just remembered I wanted to mention that exercise about pointing at things reminds me of Gurdjieff. Which I all-ways took to mean, be-aware of the self and not-self simultaneously at all-times. I hear he was also into moving the body around/dancing in order to fully get this (non) concept.


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5345
28/07/2020 8:22 am  
Posted by: @grouchotrout

be-aware of the self and not-self simultaneously at all-times. I hear he was also into moving the body around/dancing in order to fully get this (non) concept.

That's the goal in a nutshell (""simultaneously"). "At all times" is a higher pay-grade. But I think it actually pays less ... unless one has a harem, or a group, or an ashram, or a traveling circus, composed of members willing to support one.

Note: Yes, I know the real rule about the universe supporting one as long as one is doing his or her Will, which is on-topic by sheer synchronization.

All the martial arts are (theoretically) seeking the sync, but not many come out and tell you something esoteric like that, up front, usually because they're not at that level yet. Aikido seems to be the most up-front about laying that goal out in the books. But in the dojo, it's all work at doing the techniques. Any kind of purposeful sync with dynamic movements is good. Of course the sync won't come until the technique is performent "without effort."

 


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2575
28/07/2020 3:43 pm  
Posted by: @grouchotrout

Oh, and just remembered I wanted to mention that exercise about pointing at things reminds me of Gurdjieff. Which I all-ways took to mean, be-aware of the self and not-self simultaneously at all-times. I hear he was also into moving the body around/dancing in order to fully get this (non) concept.

This is  unnecessary  if you follow To Mega Therion's curriculum.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5345
28/07/2020 6:18 pm  
Posted by: @dom

This is  unnecessary  if you follow To Mega Therion's curriculum.

Huh? The self and the not self, both awake, simultaneously, is the very definition of success, seeing as how there's that paradox involved. It is the very definition of "chatting with one's angel." How can it be unnecessary when it is the goal?

 


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2575
28/07/2020 6:32 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

 

Huh? The self and the not self, both awake, simultaneously, is the very definition of success, seeing as how there's that paradox involved. It is the very definition of "chatting with one's angel." How can it be unnecessary when it is the goal?

 

He was talking about silly-moustache Gurdjieff, I told him uh that ain't necessary you got all you need in what I said....imo. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 3341
28/07/2020 8:12 pm  
Posted by: @dom

silly-moustache

Watch yourself with that "silly-moustache" stuff, son.


ReplyQuote
Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4094
28/07/2020 8:15 pm  
Posted by: @dom

silly-moustache Gurdjieff

I doubt there'll ever be a more fundamental, penetrative and devastating critique of Gurdjieff than this.

Fourth Way? Geddaway, as Terry Collier jeered to Bob Ferris.

 


christibrany and dom liked
ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2575
28/07/2020 8:28 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @dom

silly-moustache

Watch yourself with that "silly-moustache" stuff, son.

Do you have a ferret under your nose like Georgey-boy?  No, yours is ok. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5345
28/07/2020 8:41 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Do you have a ferret under your nose like Georgey-boy?

"Mocking the Saints" is one of the first signs of demonic possession. We will need to submit your brainwaves to the lab for analysis. Here: Stick these electrodes into your scalp ...

intro 1585847403

 


ReplyQuote
Aleisterion
(@aleisterion)
Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 348
28/07/2020 8:46 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @dom

Do you have a ferret under your nose like Georgey-boy?

"Mocking the Saints" is one of the first signs of demonic possession. We will need to submit your brainwaves to the lab for analysis. Here: Stick these electrodes into your scalp ...

intro 1585847403

 

"Demons to some. Angels to others."


ReplyQuote
christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2738
28/07/2020 9:28 pm  

@ignant666

 

Aye, it's all relative.

We have all tried the Hitler Mustache in the shaving mirror. 

 

No?

Still looks like shit lol. 

The Elders have awoken.

It is...checks watch..approximately 2125 in Ink Land.

 

I tried the cow boy moustache, like 'that one actor' 

It looked ok.

I never had the balls.

 

These days, Mustaches Alone get bad press. 

Perhaps its time for Stache lives matter.

 

I look like either a hobo or a hipster.

 

I need to trim. 

 

I used to be so hairly svelte. 

 

 

@michael-staley 

 

Can you PLEASE write an essay, on why perhaps or perhaps not, Hellraiser may be Typhonian?

We all know that Clive Barker is a great writer and lover of men, and we all wonder where he gets his idears from minus S&M and blood.

 

 


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 3341
28/07/2020 9:39 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

These days, Mustaches Alone get bad press. 

One of the main reasons i grew one.


ReplyQuote
christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2738
28/07/2020 9:44 pm  

@ignant666

 

You made me laugh.

I have too much hair anyway.

In regards to self and will in thelema.

*brings mic*

Sir, how do you feel that your mustache brings you to your True Will?

 

{mutters under breath; our comrade Chino, Xavier Moreno thinks Will and will are the same}


dom liked
ReplyQuote
Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1658
28/07/2020 11:35 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Do you have a ferret under your nose like Georgey-boy?  

If moustache-profusion can be taken as a sign of attainment then Dave "Yosemite Sam" Crosby must surely be a (hidden) Master?

Yes, it's silly time again!

N Joy


ReplyQuote
djedi
(@djedi)
𒇽𒅗𒅗𒈠
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 350
28/07/2020 11:48 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

We have all tried the Hitler Mustache in the shaving mirror. 

I had a Hitler moustache for a few months, a little over a year ago.


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 3341
29/07/2020 12:57 am  
Posted by: @djedi

Hitler moustache

My [quite conservative then, Obama fan by the end] dad had one for a summer in the late '60s/early '70s. My [very liberal always] mother made him grow corners/edges on it, to de-Hitler it. He claimed he had not realized how it might be taken: very funny, dad.


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5345
29/07/2020 2:19 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

I look like either a hobo or a hipster.

 

Why do you describe yourself as a homo or a hippy?

 


ReplyQuote
christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2738
29/07/2020 2:25 am  

@ignant666

I mean after all you can just call it a Charlie Chaplain


ReplyQuote
christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2738
29/07/2020 2:26 am  

@shiva

 

 

My dear sir the hobo or hipster Is an Irish joke.

Its OK

It's a beard Joke


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5345
29/07/2020 2:33 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

My dear sir the hobo or hipster Is an Irish joke.

But the homo or the hippy is not a joke, and it is politically incorrect.


ReplyQuote
christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2738
29/07/2020 2:45 am  

@shiva

Can't stop laughing and 'tank,' you very ' mooch '


ReplyQuote
Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1658
29/07/2020 4:19 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

@shiva  Can't stop laughing

Come come, now - this so-called 'joke' was never that amusing... However, although not (unlike @shiva) a sometime member of the medical establishment, I recommend that as with a case of the hiccups the best remedy for you would be to continue to breathe carbon dioxide into a brown paper bag until you pass out the attack passes and relative sobriety once more is resumed.

(Actually, you may find that the color of the paper bag itself to be negligible).

N Joy


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5345
29/07/2020 4:38 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

into a brown paper bag until you pass out the attack passes

Or he can use the pranayama method. In for 11 seconds, hold for 418, out for 11, hold for 418, repeat 'til blackout normalcy returns.

 


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2575
29/07/2020 9:04 am  

Hey the thread finally got compelling on this page.

Apparently young women now, apart from having a water bottle constantly in their hand, like their boyfriends to have beards and moustaches.  Hence we are now in some sort of wild west mid-Victorian time warp where most young men are bearded.   

In the 80s anyone who even had sideburns at my school was publicly roasted.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2738
29/07/2020 3:01 pm  

@dom

 

What will be interesting to see is if this trend continues in the next 5 to 10 years as the new generational crop graduates university.  The beard thing really took off about 5 to almost 10 years ago now so it's a certain age group, maybe 30 to 40. 

 

@Jamiejbarter

 

I am probably getting enough CO2 when I wear masks in shops I think. 

 

*off to shave (it's cyclical...)* 

 

There is no wrong

There is no guilt

There is just

Beards tending to wilt 


ReplyQuote
Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4094
29/07/2020 3:44 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Hey the thread finally got compelling on this page.

This is your idea of "compelling"? Jesus.


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5345
29/07/2020 6:25 pm  
Posted by: @michael-staley

This is your idea of "compelling"? Jesus.

Compelling one to quit the darkness and seek higher threads.

Jesus Saves (Blue Chip tamps).


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2575
29/07/2020 6:28 pm  
Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @dom

Hey the thread finally got compelling on this page.

This is your idea of "compelling"? Jesus.

Irony flying right over your head?  Don't you get it, which thread is this?  Son-of-Los ass-kicker's 'will and self' thread and we're talking beards.   Do I have to explain irony to an English person?   I'll explain; the arrogant Losian person whose thread this is pointlessly chased his own tail around circuit-three constantly asking for definitions and rebuffing advice.  I'd rather talk anything even beards/moustaches than bite his silly challenges.

 

Geddit?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4094
29/07/2020 6:36 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Son-of-Los ass-kicker's 'will and self' thread and we're talking beards.   Do I have to explain irony to an English person? 

Will Self, the journalist? In all the photographs of him I've seen, his face is clean-shaven. Are you suggesting that this is a front?


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2575
29/07/2020 6:42 pm  
Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @dom

Son-of-Los ass-kicker's 'will and self' thread and we're talking beards.   Do I have to explain irony to an English person? 

Will Self, the journalist? In all the photographs of him I've seen, his face is clean-shaven. Are you suggesting that this is a front?

Tumbleweed-being-blown-across-desert cue. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4094
29/07/2020 7:21 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Tumbleweed-being-blown-across-desert cue.

Well, let's hope it's an orderly cue.


dom liked
ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5345
29/07/2020 10:24 pm  

Degeneration into silliness detected.


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 3341
29/07/2020 10:47 pm  

"Degeneration" implies this thread previously took place on some higher level or plane; i would be prepared to dispute this.

But won't. Too silly now.


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5345
29/07/2020 11:09 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

But won't. Too silly now.

The silliness needs to be expressed, i guess, in order to promote the "Get Out" in the short poetic summary of Raja Yoga. One needs to practice the "Out" maneuver, regularly, in order to be ready for the next Spring Bird, whom we might have a tendency to take seriously and fall into verbal disputes with bad name-calling.

Note: Migratory birds pass by twice per annum, so
be on the lookout this Fall ...
... not long away at all.

 


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2575
29/07/2020 11:17 pm  

The silly-moustache thing got out of control but the point I was making in that post with regards to Gurdjieff was  a serious one..... and ironically was actually on topic.   

I vote thread-lock.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4094
30/07/2020 12:01 am  
Posted by: @dom

I vote thread-lock.

I vote dom-lock.

 

 

 


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 3341
30/07/2020 12:18 am  
image

ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5345
30/07/2020 1:14 am  
Posted by: @dom

I vote thread-lock.

This is like praying. Unidirectional Votes neither cause catastrophes nor lock threads. Catastrophes are sent at the whim of the God-person; threads are lock at the discretion of the Moderator. Please tighten your screws and reassess things.

 


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2575
30/07/2020 11:12 am  
Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @dom

I vote thread-lock.

I vote dom-lock.

 

 

 

 I pity your pettiness and pointless pestering petulance....however I thank you for affording me the opportunity to introduce  onomatopoeia into the convo.

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1658
30/07/2020 11:50 am  
Posted by: @dom

I pity your pettiness and pointless pestering petulance....however I thank you for affording me the opportunity to introduce onomatopoeia into the convo.

Alliteration yes, assonance perhaps, plosiveness even - but wherefore & whither your onomatopoeia?  

N Joy


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2575
30/07/2020 12:01 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter
Posted by: @dom

I pity your pettiness and pointless pestering petulance....however I thank you for affording me the opportunity to introduce onomatopoeia into the convo.

Alliteration yes, assonance perhaps, plosiveness even - but wherefore & whither your onomatopoeia?  

N Joy

.... the pounding of Michael's literary jabs upon my presence/ posts?  P-P-P-P-P?   

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2738
30/07/2020 4:26 pm  

Silly.

 

Alliteration. 

 

No on a mana pee uh here. 


ReplyQuote
thearthuremerson
(@thearthuremerson)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 38
30/07/2020 4:49 pm  

@ignant666 Heeding the call, it seems I may have arrived too late, what with the recent requests for the thread to be locked and all. The forum seems abustle with activity since I was last here. I will do my due diligence this morning to catch up .


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 3341
30/07/2020 4:54 pm  

Understood, i would still be interested to hear any comments you have.

As you know, my philosophy knowledge/background is paper-thin, but several of our Departed Spanish Comrade's claims strike me as equally thin, and unlikely to survive much scrutiny by someone whose training goes beyond freshman philosophy many moons ago.


ReplyQuote
christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2738
30/07/2020 6:29 pm  

@ignant666

 

I don't even need to have any philosophy classes under my belt (I don't) to know that he was talking in circles/rubbish.


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5345
30/07/2020 6:32 pm  
Posted by: @dom

my presence/ posts?  P-P-P-P-P?   

Then there arose a mighty being, known as P.P. (Pee-Pee), an 8=3, or at least this is what he made up for the Exempt Adepts. His utterances (which break the rule of Binah Silence, so there must be a Magus in a Black Robe somewhere ... issuings words.

His Word shall be "Oh, I'm going to Pee on You" (onomatopoeia) - call the Qabalists, Quickly now, we need word analysis to calm our minds.

Posted by: @thearthuremerson

I will do my due diligence this morning to catch up .

You may wish to consult a psychologist before reading contagious material. You will certainly need one standing by after your perusal. Of course, you can just talk to the inner psycholist, or resort to auto-electro-shock-banishing- therapy.

On the other hand, if one's mind is merely put in neutral, even this Tuat can be navigated to its suicidal end (by the contender), or the triumphant rise of solar silliness (by the defenders of wu-wei and The Book of Lies).

Posted by: @ignant666

freshman philosophy many moons ago.

I missed that one, so I don't know anything about the Love of Wisdom, which has been officially declared the "Enemy of Magick" by Therion, Beast, The Great.

But I have data, or opinions, or insights ...

1. Mental explanations of samadhi, without paradoxical equilibration: 8=3.

2. Inability to form a coherent point of view, or display a theory of the universe: 7=4

3. Apparent lack of Magical Force, with mental combat activity set on "low," as advertised in terribly gross potty-mouth format: 6=5

4. No harmonious agreeing with any thing, or getting along with any one: 5=6

5. Cultural, or Super-ego, influence is dominant: 4=7

6. Mixed up QBL, where deep sleep = samadhi. Preoccupation with interpreting desires and preferences of the lower vehicle as reflections of the True Will: 3=8

7. Does no work, seemingly, except for reading materials that prefer preferences and desires in or to reinforce the primary consideration - Do what thou want or prefer shall be your interpretation of the Law : 2=9

8. Displayed no tokens or subtle indications of ever having witnessed The Vision of Adonai (HGA, Solar Angel, Genius, Secondary Clear Light): 1=10

My philosophical opinion, which is worthless due to lack of education and credentials or transcripts, is that we have been talking to a Student in or on the Path of Inner Development. If a Probationer, he would be doing some form of the work (practices), other than reading.

He also sort of misrepresented his point of origination (OP) ...

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

I would like to ask a question ... but I still do not have a clear answer. I am not an expert on Thelema, so I hope you will read my question with some benevolence.

Humble beginnings quickly turned into his own definitions (that were inconsistent with reality), which he firmly defended against any and all arguments, alternatives, and blatant attack.

In the end he triumphed, said demeaning things about people, and left the parking lot in his desirable, preferred vehicle. This thread has run for 10+ pages. That's over 500 posts.

I hope you (anyone) can see how Choronzon comes calling in an attempt to fragment the point of attention into multiple points of rumbling tumbling dispersion.

[signed] X


ReplyQuote
christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2738
30/07/2020 7:15 pm  

@Shiva

Care Frater,

I think you forgot to cross out, strike-trough the 2=9

 

James Barteringly yours

 

Fr. REDACTED


ReplyQuote
djedi
(@djedi)
𒇽𒅗𒅗𒈠
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 350
30/07/2020 8:04 pm  

I'm not sure how much our @thearthuremerson might be able to analyze in this thread, as I never once detected more than the veneer of the philosophical in the exchanges we've had here. More follies than volleys in the jumbled language game we were playing, with shifting definitions and even, it seems to me, viewpoints for everything. I tried to play along, feeling as though I had dressed up as myself for Halloween.

I tried my best to count coup and lead our visitor out of battle, but I couldn't dress up my words quick enough to penetrate the din. My last stratagem, which I never got a chance to use, would have been reversing course and coming up from behind his reasoning, and trying to use Nietzsche's formula of Sum, Ergo Cogito to convince him of a waking existence without the condition of consciousness, and without resorting to what he called the transcendental. But maybe he's better off, because that sort of thinking can really fuck you up if you don't do it right.


ReplyQuote
Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4094
30/07/2020 8:12 pm  
Posted by: @djedi

My last stratagem, which I never got a chance to use, would have been reversing course and coming up from behind his reasoning, and trying to use Nietzsche's formula of Sum, Ergo Cogito to convince him of a waking existence without the condition of consciousness, and without resorting to what he called the transcendental. But maybe he's better off, because that sort of thinking can really fuck you up if you don't do it right.

Sounds interesting, djedi. What do you mean by "that sort of thinking can really fuck you up if you don't do it right".


ReplyQuote
djedi
(@djedi)
𒇽𒅗𒅗𒈠
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 350
30/07/2020 8:28 pm  
Posted by: @michael-staley

What do you mean by "that sort of thinking can really fuck you up if you don't do it right".

I just mean that if you don't hold onto a point of reference outside that circle of "I am, therefore I think," then it can be very easy to slip into a moral fatalism, to choose to think you don't have a choice. Obsession with the animal self. I think that is a leitmotif of this thread.

My understanding of Nietzsche's critique of Descartes's Cogito, Ergo Sum is that it doesn't give the rational mind enough freedom. Just like jacking the Manas into Buddhi and Atma, I think it's completely possible for the rational mind to grasp the suprarational. It's the rationalizing of the suprarational, as a function of the rational mind, that's the problem.

If a rational mind that hasn't made that connection tries to think, Sum, Ergo Cogito, it will get trapped, I think.


ReplyQuote
Page 11 / 13
Share: