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xavier-moreno
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16/07/2020 1:19 pm  
Posted by: @dom
Posted by: @xavier-moreno (Don Juan (Master of Daily Samadhi))
Posted by: @dom
 
 If you want to learn about 'Will in Thelema' observe your behaviour/posts in this thread....it's the antithesis of that.   

That simple statement has already shown that you don't have the faintest idea what the True Will is all about. Good thing I didn't waste my time with you.

I think a "So there!" on the end of that paragraph would've added to the impact of that statement.

 

By the way you reading a wikipedia article on Descartes does not make you (in your own words) "an educated little bastard"..and what's with this seeing 'socialists ' everywhere weirdness? 

Thank you for showing us how you investigate. If what you were saying had little legitimacy before, it has even less now. 

Don't you notice a proliferation of little people like you who think they know you better than you do and who feel they have the authority to consider anything that is not like them "right-wing"? Does that ring a bell?

The smartest thing you could have done was to walk away, just like you said, but maybe it's too much to expect from someone like you to have some consistency in what you say and what you do.

Unless you want to contribute something in the thread and explain to us how the Ruach, which is not the Self, as you said, serves as a means to express the Will. 


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ignant666
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16/07/2020 1:43 pm  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

Don't you notice a proliferation of little people like you who think they know you better than you do and who feel they have the authority to consider anything that is not like them "right-wing"? Does that ring a bell?

No, but i do notice a proliferation of uneducated right-wing morons who have no idea what "socialism" even is who see Reds under their bed at every turn.

I will take you at your word as to your mother's sexual history, and your stature, and accept that you are in fact a "little bastard", but "educated"? Please.


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dom
 dom
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16/07/2020 4:05 pm  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno
 . I already know how to get into samadhi every day, so I don't ask. 

You're totally full of....................false opinions.

Retract the laughable statement above about you easing into daily Samadhi and I may consider having a conversation with you about Thelema and Will.

When is it that  you actually ease into Samadhi during your average day?  Before or after your parents make your meals for you?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
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16/07/2020 4:59 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

pretty sure Erwin's brief time posting here was back when i was still lurking, before i started posting.

I was a member of LAShTAL when the colossus known to men as Erwin bestrode the canvas, and can confirm that your recollection is correct.

Posted by: @ignant666

Whether these tussles led to me "getting [my] ass kicked", i will leave for others to judge

No, they didn't.

 

 

 

 


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ignant666
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16/07/2020 5:14 pm  
Posted by: @michael-staley

No, they didn't.

Why thank you, Michael.

I wish that some day we could get one of these apostles of the rational mind, and "authentic preferences", in here seeking "conversations", who had actually at least completed freshman philosophy at a decent university. We never do.

And they always come in, vainglorious, and with their guns ablazin', and yet somehow always soon after retreat whimpering and moaning to themselves "Them Gullible Thelemites don't fight fair no kinda way! They used logic, and also mockery, and would not acknowledge my Keen Intellect! Waaah!"


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xavier-moreno
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16/07/2020 6:57 pm  
Posted by: @dom
Posted by: @xavier-moreno
 . I already know how to get into samadhi every day, so I don't ask. 

You're totally full of....................false opinions.

Retract the laughable statement above about you easing into daily Samadhi and I may consider having a conversation with you about Thelema and Will.

When is it that  you actually ease into Samadhi during your average day?  Before or after your parents make your meals for you?

I've answered that before. Not only are you unable to maintain a resolution, you can't read in a thread either. You will look even more foolish when I expose you and take away the fantasies you have about your beloved samadhis.

 


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Shiva
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16/07/2020 7:15 pm  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

Thank you for showing us how you investigate. If what you were saying had little legitimacy before, it has even less now.

Dom has now been downgraded to pre-Malkuth status. How low can you go?

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

The smartest thing you could have done was to walk away, just like you said

No, he exhibits the ONE characteristic essential to staying in the octagonal arena, and that is to endure. Like-minded people (who are essentially off to expose illusion) will swell the ranks of the faithful (slowly, it is assured), and contra-mentated endurers provide entertainment and a glorious spectacle of how the mind works in different people.

"Refuse none." But you know the rest of that line.

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

the Ruach, which is not the Self, as you said, serves as a means to express the Will. 

I can answer that one. But I resist desist.

Posted by: @ignant666

actually at least completed freshman philosophy at a decent university.

Philosophy was one of the courses that was not required in my curriculum toward my four (4? - Nobody has 4!) doctoral degrees. Maybe I can get into an online course from some accredited institution?

Luckily for me, the Book 4 - Part III Scripture says: "Philosophy is the enemy of Magick," so I get I'll find hope or help in that.

Posted by: @ignant666

And they always come in, vainglorious, and with their guns ablazin'

This is the usual stereotype and archetype applied in the early stages. Since they exhibit similar characteristics, and follow the same format, we may consider the possibility of a common denominator ... such as a stage (level) one must go through, or an asura that jumps between bodies, possessing the poor wrench wretch, or a never-ending reflection of what could happen to any of us. If we started thinking in the, um, wrong direction.

Now I have scared myself silly.

 


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xavier-moreno
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16/07/2020 7:31 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

No, but i do notice a proliferation of uneducated right-wing morons who have no idea what "socialism" even is who see Reds under their bed at every turn.

I will take you at your word as to your mother's sexual history, and your stature, and accept that you are in fact a "little bastard", but "educated"? Please.

Translation: I'm a real socialist and wherever there is a right-wing and a "macho", I will be there to make it clear who has the moral superiority. The only problem is that this fantasy only exists in your head, which is exactly what you have demonstrated by imagining things that are not real about me in this thread calling me things that don't correspond to any reality. You, on the other hand, have proven to be a cowardly little girl by picking on people who are not present and who have nothing better to do than spoil forum threads. 

I've gotten bored kicking your ass, honestly. I know you love it, and I know you secretly adore me (which is why you can't stop answering me), but this has to stop. One last bit of advice: If you didn't waste so much time on the witch-hunt, maybe you wouldn't have to waste your retirement money on escorts.


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Michael Staley
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16/07/2020 8:31 pm  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

I've gotten bored kicking your ass, honestly.

You haven't "kicked" ignant666's "ass". Your delusion that you have is truly extraordinary.

This is a discussion website, not a martial arts arena; please stop wasting your time and ours.


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dom
 dom
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16/07/2020 8:37 pm  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

 

Translation: I'm a real socialist and wherever there is a right-wing and a "macho", I will be there to make it clear who has the moral superiority. The only problem is that this fantasy only exists in your head, which is exactly what you have demonstrated by imagining things that are not real about me in this thread calling me things that don't correspond to any reality. You, on the other hand, have proven to be a cowardly little girl by picking on people who are not present and who have nothing better to do than spoil forum threads. 

I've gotten bored kicking your ass, honestly. I know you love it, and I know you secretly adore me (which is why you can't stop answering me), but this has to stop. One last bit of advice: If you didn't waste so much time on the witch-hunt, maybe you wouldn't have to waste your retirement money on escorts.

Talking about a real ass-kickin' you're probably two or three hot-air brattish posts from getting your profoundly interesting thread locked and/or  from getting you're own ass banned from the forum.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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16/07/2020 8:42 pm  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

[Words, garbled by trying to talk, while simultaneously fellating himself.]

Keep kicking that ass, son! Follow your preferences!

Say "Hi" to your mom for me.


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xavier-moreno
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16/07/2020 8:53 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

[Words, garbled by trying to talk, while simultaneously fellating himself.]

Keep kicking that ass, son! Follow your preferences!

Say "Hi" to your mom for me.

What a dirty mind you have, huh? Typical of a herald of "social justice". I wouldn't want to be your therapist. 


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xavier-moreno
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16/07/2020 8:56 pm  
Posted by: @michael-staley

This is a discussion website, not a martial arts arena; please stop wasting your time and ours.

Mr Staley: feel free to go "outside the circles of time" if you don't like it.

 


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Michael Staley
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16/07/2020 9:03 pm  

@lashtal

I think that xavier-moreno would like you to put him out of his misery.


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ignant666
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16/07/2020 9:11 pm  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

What a dirty mind you have, huh?

Oh, so you can insult others with abandon, and pose and posture as a Keen Intellect who Kicks Ass, and then, when you get some back, you whine like, to quote a certain Spanish manly man just now, "a cowardly little girl"?

Who's "playing the victim" now, Senor Studly?

Do say "Hi" to your mom for me.


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xavier-moreno
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16/07/2020 9:16 pm  
Posted by: @michael-staley

I think that xavier-moreno would like you to put him out of his misery.

What a strange tendency for people here to know what I really want and desire. 


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xavier-moreno
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16/07/2020 9:22 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

What a dirty mind you have, huh?

Oh, so you can insult others with abandon, and pose and posture as a Keen Intellect who Kicks Ass, and then, when you get some back, you whine like, to quote a certain Spanish manly man just now, "a cowardly little girl"?

Who's "playing the victim" now, Senor Studly?

Do say "Hi" to your mom for me.

Check out the post and see who "jumped into the ring" first with implicit insults and no input.

I don't even want to think what a dirty obsession you'll have with my mother having such a dirty mind. You don't have enough with your ladies in waiting and you want to meet her too? Ew.

 


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ignant666
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16/07/2020 9:35 pm  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

Check out the post and see who "jumped into the ring" first with implicit insults and no input.

Ummmm:

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

Cool. At least I'm not as ugly as you.

Can dish it out, but can't take it, huh? And as to

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

what a dirty obsession you'll have with my mother

I think you'll find, if you "check out the post", that you're the one who brought up your mom's, um, liberated sexual history (not that there's anything wrong with that, of course), and the circumstances of your parentage, Sonny-Boy, not me:

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

I'm a ... little bastard

Was there anything else you wanted to whine about, while you are taking your little break from "kicking my ass"?

Do please tell mom i say hello.

 


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dom
 dom
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16/07/2020 10:40 pm  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

 

What a strange tendency for people here to know what I really want and desire. 

Nope, you're the least interesting person here.,,,,and the most delusional. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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16/07/2020 11:00 pm  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

picking on people who are not present and who have nothing better to do than spoil forum threads. 

It is the absolute nature of the holy forum , or even the vulgar forums, to be picking on people who are not present ... most of the time. Sometimes two people meet online, almost face-to-face, and we get a rapid-fire series, such as I have just discovered right here. But, even then, there is a small time lag.

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

but this has to stop.

It won't stop. This is a public forum and all posters are equal. Lurkers are all equal, but in another manner, for time is not here and there the same.

If anybody comes here and is nice, Ignant will be nice to them. If anybody has anything they insist on, Ignant will examine it for validity. Insistencies include: Claims, Arrogance, Stupidity, or Misrepresentation, etc.

I, myself, went through the Ignant cross-examination 13 years ago. I was nice about it, not claiming anything but my experience. I seem to have passed, because ipso facto prima facey, I am still here, and I'm not defending any position except wu-wei, which is impossible.

Now, if you were able to relax and be neither bored nor aggressive, and you were to retract all claims, saying, I am, like all the rest of you, nobody important," then you could join in on the really level playing ground and help us disprove all kinds of fanatical and fanciful concepts.

If you're still here in a month, I'll give you a free pdf book too.

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

Mr Staley: feel free to go "outside the circles of time" if you don't like it.

Mr. Staley has been relegated, along with Dom, to the "outside," which you must understand is a form of banishing, expelling, exiling, or deporting an entity outside the circle of one's field of influence. Let's see if it works in this. I'll bet on "no," due to my superior, actually praeterhuman, insight.

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

What a strange tendency for people here to know what I really want and desire. 

Oh, Lordy and the Seven Secret Chiefs!  How do we find the proper Suicide-Prevention Center?

Posted by: @ignant666

Do please tell mom i say hello.

Pleae note that Ignant sends well-wishes, and has not asked for an introduction or even to meet her behind your back.

 


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xavier-moreno
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16/07/2020 11:07 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

Check out the post and see who "jumped into the ring" first with implicit insults and no input.

Ummmm:

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

Cool. At least I'm not as ugly as you.

Can dish it out, but can't take it, huh? And as to

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

what a dirty obsession you'll have with my mother

I think you'll find, if you "check out the post", that you're the one who brought up your mom's, um, liberated sexual history (not that there's anything wrong with that, of course), and the circumstances of your parentage, Sonny-Boy, not me:

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

I'm a ... little bastard

Was there anything else you wanted to whine about, while you are taking your little break from "kicking my ass"?

Do please tell mom i say hello.

 

Maybe your senile memory doesn't help you remember that you got in the thread on your second intervention by calling me rude, loud, inconsiderate and overbearing. Then you called me right-wing and sexist, as if nothing happened. The fact that you did it in a not entirely explicit way doesn't mean you didn't, even if you want to hide it with crying girl subtleties.

You deserve to get your ass kicked, which is basically what I've been doing all this time (even if some fan-boy on holidays in Arunachala wants to defend you).

I think you'll find, if you "check out the post", that you're the one who brought up your mom's, um, liberated sexual history (not that there's anything wrong with that, of course), and the circumstances of your parentage, Sonny-Boy, not me

To top it all off, you're not even capable of understanding figurative language. You're right about one thing: you're a useless sack of boobs.

Since you laugh so much at equating the True Will with natural preferences below the Abyss, you could tell us what you consider to be the True Will. This is your chance to enlighten us.

 


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xavier-moreno
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16/07/2020 11:11 pm  

@dom Well, you keep answering me. I seem to exert an irresistible charm on you. Otherwise I can't explain what you're doing here. 


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dom
 dom
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16/07/2020 11:16 pm  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

@dom Well, you keep answering me. I seem to exert an irresistible charm on you. Otherwise I can't explain what you're doing here. 

You're a clown, I pay attention to clowns ...sometimes, they make me laugh, that's what they're there for.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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xavier-moreno
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16/07/2020 11:20 pm  

@shiva

 because ipso facto prima facey,

It's written prima facie, wise man of four doctorates.

Now, if you were able to relax and be neither bored nor aggressive, and you were to retract all claims, saying, I am, like all the rest of you, nobody important," then you could join in on the really level playing ground and help us disprove all kinds of fanatical and fanciful concepts.

Well, I'm not the one who presented himself as an authority selling his books, remember? It is among my last priorities to worry about what you think of me.


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dom
 dom
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17/07/2020 12:31 am  

Like Shiva said why would someone who enters Samadhi daily want advice from the grown-ups about Will and Self?   It's funny.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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xavier-moreno
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17/07/2020 1:10 am  

@dom

Maybe because the ability to enter samadhi doesn't qualify you to understand it. As the fact that crossing the Abyss every day does not make you a Magister Templi, nor does the fact that everyone can do nothing but their own will (because no one can escape their own nature), in a sense, qualifies them to know how to interpret that experience. This may surprise you. You were probably expecting something more fantastic in your "magickal" adventures. But here I am, doing you a favor by showing you what's really going on. And for free, too. 

Secondly, one should not assume an identity between the possibility of samadhi and knowing and doing your True Will. If it were the case, Thelema wouldn't be bringing anything new to the table, something a perennialist like @Shiva would like to believe but that's not the case.

You should know this, instead of calling other people clowns. This shows that the only circus here is the one that exists in your head and that's why you are only able to project your own antics onto others.

 


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Shiva
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17/07/2020 2:52 am  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

I can't explain what you're doing here. 

He lives here. A few of us have nothing better to do than clean up the world of ideas. Each of the "live ins" has a particular specialty. Dom has a particular talent for preidentifying wacko nut-jobs (his term).

Predidentification is like making an accusation of instability. Then we all have to go to Geburah, unlock the doors, and convene The Tribunal, which is not much different from torture by The Inquisition. This is that. Right here. Right now. Face to virtual Face. Who will survive? Who will confess? Welcome to LAShTAL.

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

It's written prima facie, wise man of four doctorates.

Oh, you must have missed one of my specialties: Purpoisefull Misspelligs.

Sometimes I make unpurposeful misspellings, called mistakes or typos because, you see, sometimes I don't have enough Chi to proof my long posts. but who is to tell the difference between clever Shiva the Ascetic and the dumb demon vehicle that are I, Shiva the mundane Householder?

(I don't really live in Hindu-land in my private head. I have alternative paradigms that keep me amused. Ignant has probed my depths, in person, and he will (has already) attested to my advancement in the state known commonly as "mad." That's insane, not angry.

My madness is due to subscribing to alternative structures of how things are put together, and how they work, with specific reference to "reality on the hard surface of a spinning planet, which is conditional, and some times I go unconditional and then write or express certain paradigms that are either weird or untrue.

But I get to do that because, as a physician, I am sworn to do no harm. This is why I prefer Aikido over one-punch-dead Karate, although I teach both because you never know what might come up. Says so in the Existentialist Scriptures, I swear it.

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

Well, I'm not the one who presented himself as an authority selling his books, remember?

I do not remember presenting myself as an "authority." However, I Am an Author. I often cite the difference, and the sameness, of the two words. You asked, "What is Blazing Diamond? I gave you a link so you could see it for yourself. I did not offer to sell you one. I offered to to tell you it's free online, and it's free in pdf if you want me to send you one.

Now, we need not have any defense on the level playing field. It doesn't matter who did what first. It matters that every new person here gets a different treatment. People like Duck and the new miz project humbleness and confess their shortcomings like a good Buddhist would do, so they don't get their buttons pushed.

LAShTAL is different than other places. It is staffed by a small cadre who instantly know which buttons to push. It's like some Oriental initiation where you are expected to easily deflect or laugh off any button pushing. Anytime anyone can laugh at themselves, the spell is broken.

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

Maybe because the ability to enter samadhi doesn't qualify you to understand it. As the fact that crossing the Abyss every day does not make you a Magister Templi, nor does the fact that everyone can do nothing but their own will (because no one can escape their own nature), in a sense, qualifies them to know how to interpret that experience. This may surprise you. You were probably expecting something more fantastic in your "magickal" adventures. But here I am, doing you a favor by showing you what's really going on. And for free, too. 

Uh, oh, and ho-humm. You have really put your foot in it here, and at such a high level, and so full of fragmented error. Maybe someone will take you to task for each individual error, but I will only make two statements.

1. Samadhi is undertanding.

2. Nobody crosses the Abyss daily. They undertake a reflection of the larger cycles. But they fall asleep (no data registering on the I Am scale).

In crossing the Abyss, there is a continuity of consciousness between the waking state and the so-called trance state of samadhi. There is a midway point where the "I Am" awareness (Ego) surrenders to allow the state to arise.

On the Path itself, crossing the Abyss is a bit more exciting than mere mystical synchronization, and when it drags on for a couple years, it could become wearying. But there is still a continuity of consciousness before and after the turnover. Right at the point of turnover, there seems to be an instant or an hour of blackout, but after that, things are just the same as things were before.

Oh wait! There is one little difference. One might just pick up the ability to be here and there ... at the same time.

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

Thelema wouldn't be bringing anything new to the table

There is nothing New under the Sun, Horatio! We have a few threads here where historical investigations revealed that Crowley brought all the elements of Thelema to the table from some previous source. He was a genius in building a framework for these diverse concepts, but as they say, it is all "old wine in new bottles."

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

You should know this, instead of calling other people clowns. This shows that the only circus here is the one that exists in your head and that's why you are only able to project your own antics onto others.

Is the psychological counseling free, too? Well, I've given you your last chance within this post. If you keep pushing, I will [blank] you forever. Maybe some other folks will continue to entertain you.

Maybe you will become a ghost.

 


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xavier-moreno
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17/07/2020 3:43 am  

@shiva

1. Samadhi is undertanding.

Yeah. That's the only smart, meaningful thing you've said in the whole thread. In that particular sense, then not everyone has that understanding. What is common to everyone, in principle and by hypothesis, unless I am a brain in a vat, is the experience of samadhi.

2. Nobody crosses the Abyss daily. They undertake a reflection of the larger cycles. But they fall asleep (no data registering on the I Am scale).

Well, I'm using the metaphors in Crowley's philosophy. And one of them is crossing the Abyss. It is true that, depending on how one looks at it, no one actually crosses the Abyss. But I think it's better to use colloquial language so as not to fatten the matter up. It is precisely because they fall asleep, as you say, that they cross the Abyss, but the majority do not understand what happens "there" (which is already happening all the time) and when they wake up they rebuild the story about themselves and the world that they believe to be true. 

In crossing the Abyss, there is a continuity of consciousness between the waking state and the so-called trance state of samadhi. There is a midway point where the "I Am" awareness (Ego) surrenders to allow the state to arise.

That's just a thought. 


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xavier-moreno
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17/07/2020 3:49 am  
Posted by: @shiva
 
There is nothing New under the Sun, Horatio! We have a few threads here where historical investigations revealed that Crowley brought all the elements of Thelema to the table from some previous source. He was a genius in building a framework for these diverse concepts, but as they say, it is all "old wine in new bottles."

And what "previous source" is that? 


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Shiva
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17/07/2020 3:56 am  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

the experience of samadhi

Termed gnosis or Rigpa. The state. Those are names. They are not the state, but they try to express it. In English, it would be "direct expression."

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

That's just a thought. 

That is a report of a direct experience, paraphrased and cut down for Summarium purposes. The longer version is imprinted somewhere else. It is not a metaphor. However, you are correct: It is just a thought. Some thoughts are more practical than others; they reflect what takes place at certain points, but they are not the point itself.

 


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dom
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17/07/2020 11:08 am  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

@dom

Maybe because the ability to enter samadhi doesn't qualify you to understand it. As the fact that crossing the Abyss every day does not make you a Magister Templi, nor does the fact that everyone can do nothing but their own will (because no one can escape their own nature), in a sense, qualifies them to know how to interpret that experience. This may surprise you. You were probably expecting something more fantastic in your "magickal" adventures. But here I am, doing you a favor by showing you what's really going on. And for free, too. 

 

You should know this, instead of calling other people clowns. This shows that the only circus here is the one that exists in your head and that's why you are only able to project your own antics onto others.

 

You're aware of Crowley's grade system?  Where are you? 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
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17/07/2020 3:04 pm  
Posted by: @dom

You're aware of Crowley's grade system?  Where are you?

What is the relevance of this quesion, dom? Assuming for the moment that Crowley's grade system means something, how would he, you or anybody else place themselves on it? On what ctiteria, and with what evidence?


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lashtal
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17/07/2020 3:21 pm  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

You're right about one thing: you're a useless sack of boobs.

Tone it down, please. 

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LAShTAL


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xavier-moreno
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17/07/2020 3:45 pm  
Posted by: @lashtal
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

You're right about one thing: you're a useless sack of boobs.

Tone it down, please. 

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Tone down. It's worth remembering that it wasn't me who used that expression in the first place.


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xavier-moreno
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17/07/2020 4:00 pm  
Posted by: @dom

You're aware of Crowley's grade system?  Where are you? 

I'm aware. I don't know what use that criterion is in this thread. I prefer to nip the illusion in the bud once and for all rather than chase "grades" like a spiritual junkie.


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RuneLogIX
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17/07/2020 4:13 pm  

@xavier-moreno Grades have their purpose in the occult college of the Great White Brotherhood but they all too often become a lust for result in themselves. Do the work. Or not. Follow your whimsy. I am also skeptical of the grades and degrees and as I don't care about teaching or being recognized by so-called occult authorities it doesn't matter to me.

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


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Shiva
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17/07/2020 8:02 pm  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

It's worth remembering that it wasn't me who used that expression in the first place.

It is not worth remembering who did what first. This is not a police court tribunal. It is a tribunal of promoting harmony. Anytime anyone wants to return to the original topicum, we can do it. Here, let me show the way ...

Will. Self. Thelema. (defrine) ...

Posted by: @xavier-moreno

I'm aware. I don't know what use that criterion is in this thread. I prefer to nip the illusion in the bud once and for all rather than chase "grades" like a spiritual junkie.

This info is important. When one reads AC, it is sometimes crucial to check the fine print to see who is issuing the doc (i.e., O.M. 7=4), and what level of initiate or normal human it is intended for. If the reader doesn't do this, then there may be confusion of the planes, and people will say Crowley is contradictory, when he's really just talking from two different planes where things are different from other planes.

The same applies in a forum. It is useful to know from which level anyone is speaking, writing, or laying down the Law. But most people don't know their actual grades. I mean the real grades, not some title bestowed by someone else.

The true and actual grade of anyone is visible in their aura or energy field. But hardly anyone can see this sort of thing. On a forum, it's much harder, and it takes a longer time to (sort of generally) perceive the level of any given person. It is simpler to just rank folks on the three grade system.

The Man of Earth (and Woman, too) will be spouting lower mental/astral concepts. They will compute in linear terms and get into arguments. Personality clashes they call it.

The Lover will usually deliver data that is recognizable as being "informed," but only another Lover can see and know this to be true, so the general public can't tell the difference. And Lovers are still subject to error or illusion.

The Hermit won't say much, unless (s)he's a Magus ... then (s)he has to speak what comes, and many people will throw stones. A few will note the truth in his/her words and offer to become acolytes, or otherwise take up the burden of ascent.

All this is so vague that we must simply plug along for a while, maybe a long while, waiting for any person to say or do something that reveals their holy or unholy status. There are also further complications, what with the Inner Self and the Outer Dork sometimes getting confused.

 


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dom
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17/07/2020 8:13 pm  
 
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

 

I'm aware. I don't know what use that criterion is in this thread. I prefer to nip the illusion in the bud once and for all rather than chase "grades" like a spiritual junkie.

..................

Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @dom

You're aware of Crowley's grade system?  Where are you?

What is the relevance of this quesion, dom? Assuming for the moment that Crowley's grade system means something, how would he, you or anybody else place themselves on it? On what ctiteria, and with what evidence?

How long have you been following this thread?  I asked him that question because our True Will wrinkled- tomato hating incessantly overanalytical ass-kicking Black-Hole Don Juan has claimed that he "already knows how to get into samadhi every day" (posted at 15/07/2020 9:08 am~ Page 2 of this thread).

 

I'm assuming then that he must be a Master of Samadhi which Crowley documents below as a characteristic of the 8=3 grade; 

 
 
 
Magister Templi. - (Master of the Temple): whose functions are fully described in Liber 418, as is this whole initiation from Adeptus Exemptus. See also “Aha!” His principal business is to tend his “garden” of disciples, and to obtain a perfect understanding of the Universe. He is a Master of Samadhi.
 
 

Well, our Don Juan asks a lot of questions so I'm assuming he has come here for explanations and he certainly isn't tending to any plants or flowers around here is he?  He does however claim to be a Master of Samadhi....so something isn't adding up.  Is this Master a troll-Master? 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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christibrany
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17/07/2020 8:37 pm  

@ignant666

 

He started out with big words we all tried to decipher because we're stupid.

Now he is throwing on the insults.

It's quite the change. 


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xavier-moreno
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17/07/2020 9:09 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Well, our Don Juan asks a lot of questions so I'm assuming he has come here for explanations and he certainly isn't tending to any plants or flowers around here is he?  He does however claim to be a Master of Samadhi....so something isn't adding up.  Is this Master a troll-Master? 

I haven't claimed to be a master of anything. It's a projection you make on me because it irritates you to think that you might be wrong about this samadhi thing being great and that the guy who sells roast chickens right on the corner can't be as enlightened as you. You've been behind this for so long without a clue that you suppose it has to be something very valuable and extraordinary, otherwise you've wasted your time. But that's the case. The guy in the corner experiences that samadhi thing every day. And maybe does his will to a certain extent without all that mental architecture you've set up. What's more, it's reasonable to think that the world is full of Magistri Templorum without them being aware of all this paraphernalia of grades, samadhis, praeterhuman daemons and crap like that. 


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Aleisterion
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17/07/2020 9:32 pm  

@xavier-moreno:

I don't know you, but I think you may be mistaken about experiencing "that samadhi thing every day". To say the least. Samadhi is a life-altering event that many with decades of dedicated experience only enjoy on occasion at best, if at all. It is very, very rare...and most often a student gets a whiff of an epiphany and he thinks it's samadhi. You might do better to stop speculating on these experiences you're getting, and just keep on working...you might find more enlightenment than you ever imagined possible, and then you'd do well to follow that pattern of dismissing results in favor of more work.

You'd certainly do better here by not parading or boasting though. It just isn't a good way to make friends. 😉 


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xavier-moreno
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17/07/2020 9:33 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
 
This info is important. When one reads AC, it is sometimes crucial to check the fine print to see who is issuing the doc (i.e., O.M. 7=4), and what level of initiate or normal human it is intended for. If the reader doesn't do this, then there may be confusion of the planes, and people will say Crowley is contradictory, when he's really just talking from two different planes where things are different from other planes.
It's not. It is important to you because it meets needs that you have God knows why. 

The same applies in a forum. It is useful to know from which level anyone is speaking, writing, or laying down the Law. But most people don't know their actual grades. I mean the real grades, not some title bestowed by someone else.

Well, then, being the case that most people don't know their "actual grades" (whatever that means) then it's of no use. 

You have people who think they have a grade they don't have, and you have people who think they are in a grade but don't have anyone to share it with either. And the only way to get out of that is to make up that crap about auras (which is as subjective as grades), or, even worse, to make up a way of behaving depending on the grade you're in -the Man of earth talks crap (according to whom?), the Lover is "informed" (of what?), and so on-. But if we start from the fact that each man and each woman is a star, then each man and each woman should have their own orbit, that is, each one will show a behaviour according to his individual nature and therefore a fixed criterion for evaluating each orbit will serve you very little beyond a very specific and determined context.

The only thing that can be done, summing up the matter very much, is to test what someone wants to teach and see what fruit that bears in you, seeing how it helps you to know yourself better and better. If you see in your own individuality that what a person is describing fits what you are living and discovering, then you are on the right path.


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xavier-moreno
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17/07/2020 9:37 pm  
Posted by: @aleisterion

@xavier-moreno:

I don't know you, but I think you may be mistaken about experiencing "that samadhi thing every day". To say the least. Samadhi is a life-altering event that many with decades of dedicated experience only enjoy on occasion at best, if at all. It is very, very rare...and most often a student gets a whiff of an epiphany and he thinks it's samadhi. You might do better to stop speculating on these experiences you're getting, and just keep on working...you might find more enlightenment than you ever imagined possible, and then you'd do well to follow that pattern of dismissing results in favor of more work.

You'd certainly do better here by not parading or boasting though. It just isn't a good way to make friends. 😉 

And you should not give advice if you haven't been asked.

Why don't you tell us what makes these "events" so special and try to justify your claim?

 


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Aleisterion
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17/07/2020 9:45 pm  

@xavier-moreno:

You come across as to me as a bit on edge. Ease up I'm not attacking you; and I'm sorry you think so little of my advice. 😢 Anyway best of luck and all the best to you on your glorious flights of fancy.


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xavier-moreno
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17/07/2020 9:52 pm  
Posted by: @aleisterion

@xavier-moreno:

You come across as to me as a bit on edge. Ease up I'm not attacking you; and I'm sorry you think so little of my advice. 😢 Anyway best of luck and all the best to you on your glorious flights of fancy.

Best of luck to you with that samadhi thing. In a few years (probably sooner) you'll remember that Xavier Moreno who warned you not to waste your time with that stuff. 


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dom
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17/07/2020 10:40 pm  
 
What @aleisterion said.
 
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

I haven't claimed to be a master of anything. It's a projection you make on me because it irritates you to think that you might be wrong about this samadhi thing being great and that the guy who sells roast chickens right on the corner can't be as enlightened as you. You've been behind this for so long without a clue that you suppose it has to be something very valuable and extraordinary, otherwise you've wasted your time. But that's the case. The guy in the corner experiences that samadhi thing every day. And maybe does his will to a certain extent without all that mental architecture you've set up. What's more, it's reasonable to think that the world is full of Magistri Templorum without them being aware of all this paraphernalia of grades, samadhis, praeterhuman daemons and crap like that. 

No, you got me all wrong, I once made this thread; 

 

https://www.lashtal.com/forums/magick/joe-schmoe-is-your-master/

 

..and this was my OP;

 

93

Crowley said,"Many people may go through the ordeals and attain the degrees of the A.'. A.'. without ever hearing that such an Order exists. The universe is, in fact, busy with nothing else,"

Maybe this has stunned you.  After all, "ye are against the people o my chosen".  Perhaps you can't believe that AC could say such a thing.  What he is saying is that for all your elitist book collection and specialist training just when you get there, well some "Joe Schmoe" (a deroga-tory name for man in street (presumably streets on wrong part of town, wherever that could be)) was already there. Amazing isn't it?  No robe, no temple, no yoga, no ceremony, no incense, no asana, no saucer on head, no ever heard of cabbalah, no learning medieval rituals but he/she is/was there above you.

How do you feel about that and why?

 

No I'm just disputing your daily Samadhi simply because you are behaving like an arrogant dufus who wants to learn but won't listen and then you becomes an ob-noxious niño when your ideas are challenged.  You're on the verge of getting ousted because you haven't even got the discipline to follow the simple guidelines of the forum.  No one that sloppy could attain to what you claim you have.  At best you can get into a light trance....once  a month or something.  

 

Reading your posts we can see that you're confused about your preferences, your desires and 'Will'.  Only a dufus would waste their own time on such nonsense. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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xavier-moreno
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17/07/2020 10:59 pm  
Posted by: @dom  

No I'm just disputing your daily Samadhi simply because you are behaving like an arrogant dufus who wants to learn but won't listen and then you becomes an ob-noxious niño when your ideas are challenged.  You're on the verge of getting ousted because you haven't even got the discipline to follow the simple guidelines of the forum.  No one that sloppy could attain to what you claim you have.  At best you can get into a light trance....once  a month or something.  

 

Reading your posts we can see that you're confused about your preferences, your desires and 'Will'.  Only a dufus would waste their own time on such nonsense. 

Then explain to us what that special trance is, what its characteristics are and why it should be considered something extraordinary or useful in order to know and do your True Will. I remind you that, if you had read well what I have written (which you are unable to do), you would have realized that I have stated that everyone has this samadhi thing on a daily basis, including a fool like you.  

If the Will is not known in the conscious mind through your desires and preferences, then what is it known through? And explain to us what aso makes you think that someone who knows his True Will would have to behave according to the criteria you consider correct, because you're clearly contrasting my behavior with an idea of what the behavior of someone who knows their True Will should be. 

Let's see who's talking nonsense.


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dom
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17/07/2020 11:21 pm  
Posted by: @xavier-moreno

Reading your posts we can see that you're confused about your preferences, your desires and 'Will'.  Only a dufus would waste their own time on such nonsense. 

Then explain to us what that special trance is, what its characteristics are and why it should be considered something extraordinary or useful in order to know and do your True Will. I remind you that, if you had read well what I have written (which you are unable to do), you would have realized that I have stated that everyone has this samadhi thing on a daily basis, including a fool like you.  

I already did.  I specifically stated why you're not a Master of samadhi a couple of times here.   There are a cluster of posters here who went through the very long reductionist- materialist 'Define Define Define' (Obey!Obey!Obey!) grind already.   Maybe search for 'Los' and his posts on the forum it may get you off. 

When I said very early on in the thread that I was 'outta here' I meant it and I stand by it.  That is 'outta here' in the sense that I made a contribution then bailed because engaging with the Black Hole dead-end that your thread became is like talking to a wall.......or Erwin Hessle, same difference.  I don't want to talk to walls.  Good luck on the overanalysing of the definitions of preference, will, desires, Hod, Netzach......... things to do here. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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17/07/2020 11:47 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Is this Master a troll-Master? 

This is not the Master. He wouldn't be ask such questions.

He is not a troll. I have used my praeterhuman powers (Chris and Tiger can attest to them, I dunno what Ignant would say, but Tiger's on Retreat now) ... my powers to determine that Xavier is sincere enough, but (as you can see) there's a 2nd circuit issue at work (Yesod), so there arises a reflection of the Octagon hidden in Geburah, and the Hodish-Netzachian questions never get straightened out due to the Yesodian conflict ... usually over terms.

I, myself, and Commie Anarchist Ignant, are primarily  responsible for provoking incidents of this nature. You $dom and $chris are only slightly more subtle. Michael will comment, but mainly he keeps himself in samadhi.

$Xavier, anybody who shows up here, who isn't humble like Saint Duck and the new miz, has buttons showing in their aura and in their posts. I will step in and start making references to Nothing, or Ain, or Rigpa, or Samadhi, because that's the only stable reference point in this nightmare of conflicting everythings. This usually finds agreement ot contra-reaction, which reveals the level (grade, plane, circuit) the person is responding on/in/with.

Any right-wing tendencies, either in politics or persona, will quickly be met with the "bad cop" version of Atma's Agent (A.'.A.'.), Ignant the prosecutor or inquisitor. This is where the candidate shows how well he/she can deflect or humorize the encounter. Direct, linear defense will not work.

Chris and Dom will start by asking a question, seemingly with a mask of curiosity attached. Do not be confused. They are drawing you out. It is a martial skill applied online, even if Michael says it's not a martial arts arena. It is a ring, or a square, or a circle, or a mat, but "arena?" That one's new to me. But it is none of these. Fighting breaks out all the time. "As brothers fight ye." (AL).

There are others here who will invite you into debate. They are ominous and scary. I won't detail them, except to say that $Lashtal is one of them. Forget IHVH, he can't get to you.

Posted by: @christibrany

It's quite the change. 

It's either the drugs or the lack of medication. I can't figure out which ... yet. I keep warning people about the dangers of drugs, or of not taking the meds, but who listens to me? I am in charge of my own perception. I can do nothing about other folks' perceptions. Well, sometimes a whack stick helps.

There's about ten more posts, but I'm behind schedule and have to attend my daily samadhi. I'll come back later if I come out of it.

 


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xavier-moreno
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17/07/2020 11:54 pm  
Posted by: @dom

I already did.  I specifically stated why you're not a Master of samadhi a couple of times here.   There are a cluster of posters here who went through the very long reductionist- materialist 'Define Define Define' (Obey!Obey!Obey!) grind already.   Maybe search for 'Los' and his posts on the forum it may get you off. 

When I said very early on in the thread that I was 'outta here' I meant it and I stand by it.  That is 'outta here' in the sense that I made a contribution then bailed because engaging with the Black Hole dead-end that your thread became is like talking to a wall.......or Erwin Hessle, same difference.  I don't want to talk to walls.  Good luck on the overanalysing of the definitions of preference, will, desires, Hod, Netzach......... things to do here. 

If I remember correctly, you have simply said that I cannot be a "master of samadhi" (which I have never claimed to be whatever "master of samadhi" means) because my behavior does not fit a criterion you have made up in your head, and because you assume that the possibility of experiencing samadhi is synonymous with knowing and doing your will, which is not necessarily the case, and all that without explaining to us how those extraordinary trances you have once a month can help us in any way to know our Will. And then, for some strange reason, you consider that someone you dislike cannot be doing his Will because he does not correspond to your mental criteria of what someone who is doing his Will should be. You have not justified why that should be so, we simply must taken it for granted because that is what you claim.

And finally, when I ask you why my affirmation that in the conscious mind we know our Will through desires and preferences, the best thing you have is to call me a physicalist (which I'm not), as if the fact that even if it were true that doing our Will in reality is nothing more than a bunch of neurons colliding with each other would change the experience of doing that Will very much.

Is that how you want us to take you seriously?

The reason you don't want to justify your statements when asked, which is the least that can be asked in a dialogue between two people, is simply because you have no idea what you are talking about and when someone makes you doubt your beliefs you get nervous.

If you can't justify what you're claiming, at least have the dignity to keep a resolution and get out.


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