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kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1827
15/10/2006 4:55 pm  

Dear Klaw-

Hello-and I hope you don't mind me switching off to a new thread in addressing your question! I did feel that it may spiral out and get away from Asclepio's general inquiry and is certainly worthy of its own discussion (although I hope Asclepio is still with us here! ๐Ÿ˜€ )

Have you read Liber Aleph? Crowley considered it to be a Commentary on Liber AL and Hymenaeus Beta, in his Introduction, regards it as "possibly Crowley's most comprehensive exposition of his mature magical philosophy." He adds that Crowley would frequently quote entire passages from Aleph "as if, having once expressed himself so well at at such great cost, he was unwilling or unable to improve on his expression."

In my own journal, I find my own use of language crumbling and failing to express certain experiences or "realizations" which Lao Tzu (even via translation) expresses with such utter perfection, like the most perfect razor incision into Reality, in his Tao Te Ching.

Crowley mentions the Tao repeatedly in Liber Aleph and pretty much equates it with Thelema. He acknowledges Lao Tzu as a Magus who has gone before him, whose "Word" was TAO. Rather than seeing this "Word" superceded by any newly manifest Word connected with the Aeon of Horus, Crowley states (Ch. 69) that the Tao is "the true Nature of Things, being itself a Way or Going." Lao Tzu is then described as having taught "this Way of Harmony in Will...this Tao is Truth and the Way of Truth."

In Chapter 177, Crowley goes further and refers to Tao as Aleph Itself, He then indentifies Aleph with MAAT who he calls the "All-Mother...an Image of Our Lady Nuit." But THEN (same Chapter!) he describes Tao as manifest in the Going of the Fool ("him that walketh in the Way of the Tao") and extends the identification wholly into Liber AL by stating that this "Walker" or "GO-er" "IS Harpocrates, the CHILD HORUS."

In Chapter 82, Crowley states that Tao (with its MAATian Balance of Yin and Yang) "is a Mystery of O.T.O."

O.T.O.

Ordo To Ovum-the Order of the Egg, which when Crowley was shewn (just wanted to say "shewn"-after all, I'm flipping through Liber Aleph!) he was told "Thou art to Go this Way."

So, we should at least have a START to the discussion here, eh?

93!

Kyle


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ianrons
(@ianrons)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 1126
15/10/2006 4:57 pm  

For info, this comes off the thread here.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
15/10/2006 6:02 pm  

finally someone brought it up thanks kidneyhawk

In magic without tears crowley writes

The Book of the Law states the doctrine of Tao very succinctly: "...thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that, and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect." (AL I, 42-44)

Thus also the Sage, seeking not any goal, attaineth all things; he does not interfere in the affairs of his body, and so that body acteth without friction. It is because he meddleth not with his personal aims that these come to pass with simplicity." Tao Teh King, VII, 2.

Read more here http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/mwt/mwt_34.html
and http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/mwt/mwt_35.html


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James
(@james)
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Posts: 251
15/10/2006 8:52 pm  

This is something I've never been able to get my head round??

How can you have Will unassuaged of purpose? Surely to 'will' something is to have an end in sight. In other words to intend an outcome. To direct something towards an outcome, to will it, is to have a purpose - surely??


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
15/10/2006 10:12 pm  

Very good question indeed

to find your own will can take an lifetime and perhaps even an reincarnation it depends on which condition you live. if you got an 12hour work day it is not an easy task. sometimes an construction worker or an janitor should have maybe wanted to be an archaeologist or ballet dancer who knows.
Sometimes your true will can haunt you in dreams depressions can come very easy when you donยดt know your own true will
what i think is that crowley used an astrological method to define will it is an proven fact that many born under different astrological signs end up in different types of persons with different goals in life.
to find your own will i think the biggest help a person can get is in solitary walks in nature and yoga exercises and in som cases hypnosis.

but donยดt take my word for it. True will lies in experience,But to get experience you must have time to your self and as i mentioned it is harder for one with an 12hour work day then the other who works 6 hours a day.
Find your own nature then the universe will guide you that i promise
the fulfillment of one's universal destiny.Crowley recognized that one's Will is generally buried beneath a big layer of what can be called Individual Ego the conscious sense of "I" that feels separate from the Universe and is a complex mix of beliefs, values, and norms derived from socialization and various life experiences but he was not only one who thought so almost every swami or guru and buddhists believes it to be true.

by the way i don`t know if you have read the message of the master therion if not here is the document

http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib2.html

Love is the law.love under will


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frater_cug
(@frater_cug)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 73
16/10/2006 12:49 am  
"James" wrote:
How can you have Will unassuaged of purpose? Surely to 'will' something is to have an end in sight. In other words to intend an outcome. To direct something towards an outcome, to will it, is to have a purpose - surely??

Assuage - To soften, in a figurative sense; to allay, mitigate, ease or lessen, as pain or grief; to appease or pacify, as passion or tumult. In strictness, it signifies rather to moderate, than to quiet, tranquilize or reduce to perfect peace or ease.

!!Warning Pestilence!!

So in this case you could say it means that the pure Will, a Will not diluted, or moderated by your thoughts, etc.., delivered from the lust of results is perfect.

!!/Warning Pestilence!!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
16/10/2006 1:08 am  

In my interpretation Thelema does not equal Tao. However, Tao is most definately incorporated into Thelema.

One should read in "Magick Without Tears" the chapters on the Three Magickal Schools of Thought.

Essentially, before the advent of Thelema, the White School is the Word of Christ, the Yellow the Word of Lao Tze, and the Black the Word of Buddha. As Crowley has shown in both Liber ABA, the Zero Chapter, and in Magick Without Tears and others, that Thelema both 'incorporates' and 'heads' them all. Thelema is a formulae that superscedes them all without destroying what is essential about them, even though Thelema is essentially a White School doctrine. Or, more appropriately, a The School of the Rosy Cross.

I'm writing this quickly, so I may come back and respond more in depth if there are good questions.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
16/10/2006 10:18 am  

Hello KCh

"In my interpretation Thelema does not equal Tao. However, Tao is most definately incorporated into Thelema."

Fair enough. On a practical note, this would mean the 'superceding' formula enables the thelemic practitioner to accomplish Daoist, Christian and Buddhist mystical objectives more efficiently than each of the other adherents. This is the main attraction of practical thelema, for me personally.

I think there is a danger that thelemites may believe that 'supercedes' is equal to 'renders others unworthy of serious study', and Crowley's essay on 'white/yellow/black/etc' magick may encourage this. One may be surprised by the life left in some users of the old ways...

H xxx

:

'Whilst failing to study other systems would be a grave mistake, once one embarks on Thelemic practice one shouldn't stick with the tao, it's like using a musket instead of a .44 magnum'

[apologies for paraphrasing, KCh, ๐Ÿ˜‰ ]

Unfortunately I can't remember my flawlessly witty rejoinder (or whatever it was)

H xxx


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kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
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Posts: 1827
18/10/2006 12:33 pm  

36 Hours of Lost Data...and POSTS!

I think we may all now concur with the Master Lao Tzu...

The Eternal Tao CAN'T be talked about! ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

Kyle ๐Ÿ™‚


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3951
18/10/2006 12:44 pm  
"kidneyhawk" wrote:
36 Hours of Lost Data...and POSTS!

I think we may all now concur with the Master Lao Tzu...

The Eternal Tao CAN'T be talked about! ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

Kyle ๐Ÿ™‚

Verily. For the first time in my life I was crossing swords with a fictional character (Morris Klaw from Sax Rohmer's collection of stories The Dream Detective), but now have no proof of this.

Doubtless Mr Klaw now thinks that I, in turn, was simply a figment of his imagination.

You could't make it up, eh?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
18/10/2006 3:22 pm  

Dear Michael,

I'm still here.

"AL is an expression of Thelema, but not the first and last word".

I must indeed exist on another planet. What then was the first proclamation or 'word' of Thelema on this planet? ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

Aye

Moris


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kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1827
18/10/2006 5:03 pm  

And the swords are again drawn...! LOL! This seems to surface as proof that Tao IS Thelema and that we are, in fact, in Post-Comment Tao ๐Ÿ˜ฏ ! "Dire Risk & Peril" abounding between Fact & Fiction (or, having just read the HIDDEN LORE review: "Self & Ego!").

The perfect stuff for a Novel!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
18/10/2006 5:44 pm  
"m.klaw" wrote:
Dear Michael,

I'm still here.

"AL is an expression of Thelema, but not the first and last word".

I must indeed exist on another planet. What then was the first proclamation or 'word' of Thelema on this planet? ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

Aye

Moris

http://www.ashami.com/eidolons/The_Antecedents_of_Thelema

93 93/93


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kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1827
18/10/2006 7:08 pm  

What then was the first proclamation or 'word' of Thelema on this planet?

In Liber Aleph, Crowley states that the WORD of the Aeon is ABRAHADABRA-the 6 and the 5, Hexagram & Pentagram, the "11" of those "who are of us." The 6 and 5 are quite synonymous with the Yin and Yang. Also the POINT on the Tree which exists "beyond" the symmetry of the 10, what awaits the winners of Ordeal X (or 10)...the "Beyond 10," the 11, symmetrical as a Binary and Asymmetrical as a number-and both at the same time, therefore the Silence and Action of the Dual God, Horus (Harpocrates and Ra Hoor Khuit). All action is in a state of imbalance, all inaction in a state of balance. Thus, Going encompasses both simultaneously-embraces a type of Being-Doing but goes beyond. Chogyam Trungpa describes the King of Shambhala in his book Great Eastern Sun as a DOT. And that, like a "word" (or THE Word, if you will) is what Kether is to the 3 Veils. Just as Set-Sirius is the "Sun behind the Sun" so there is a "Word Behind the Word" which is one of the profound secrets of Freemasonry and one which is no further solved by any Linguistic Symbolism in the Royal Arch Degree, only further pointed at.

The wonderful thing about this, I think, is that although we plunge through veil after veil, when GOing about it we can echo Crowley's "how splendid is the adventure!" and dance with Lila as much as we reveal Alil! We can do both at the same time and thereby enter the Gate to the In-Between Non-Space (which we may call "Outer Space" and "Inner Space" at once) and become the Word (which is the ONLY Way to build Solomon's Temple), refracted into space-time by means of it's

expression

The "Lost Word" is the "Secret Word" is the Secret-Ion in Mani-festat-ion is ABRAHADABRA expressing Thelema which is Tao which is ---???!!!.


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