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The airtight arguments of Jerry Cornelius?: Review of "The Cult Of Aleister Crowley"

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ignant666
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The book is well-produced, pretty typo-free, and heavily footnoted (with little potted bios of each person as they are first mentioned). It is also very repetitive, and badly in need of an editor. Some passages occur a half-dozen times in the first hundred pages! The footnoted bio of Grady McMurtry that is given on first mention later appears in the main body of the text verbatim when he becomes a major figure in the narrative, for example. Nonetheless, the strengths of the content far outweigh the weaknesses in editing, and it is well-worth reading.
 
The basic story will be familiar to many: Jerry was an early member of the (c)OTO when it was founded in the mid-late '70s, and was close to Grady McMurtry, and became his A.'. A.'. student. He was admitted to the OTO VIII by grady, and swore the A.'.A.'. 8=3 oath in Grady's presence. After the Breeze takeover of the order, he was increasingly marginalized. Breeze tried to expel him for consorting with Peter Koenig, but mostly for being an OTO member who was an initiate of a non-Mottaite A.'. A.'. He was in the end not expelled but later quit, disgusted by all the "duplexity", the "kill/fill" business, and other high-handedness by Bill "Big Brother Beta" Breeze.
 
We learn less about "New World Teacher"/"Thelemic Messiah" J. Daniel "Handsome Dan" Gunther than i had hoped. Cornelius points out that the Mottaite faction waited until McMurtry, and Motta were both dead before emerging and beginning the "duplex" crackdown. It was essential that they do so, he says, to avoid Motta pointing out that they all (Gunther, Breeze, Wasserman; Starr had quit by then) had been expelled from, or quit his "A.'. A.'.". Of course, the fact that Motta was never a member of OTO, and never more than a 1=10 (or perhaps 2=9) in the A.'. A.'., is mentioned.
 
Cornelius explains why the (c)OTO now rigidly enforces a literal interpretation of the Tunis Comment. The claim is that, by publishing his commentary on AL in 1975, Motta ceased to be the head of the A.'. A.'., became a "centre of pestilence", and forfeited his A.'. A.'. authority to Gunther as his highest-ranking student at 4=7. So the entire "duplex" authority of Gunther rests on a literal interpretation of the Tunis Comment (plus some leaps of truly wacky "logic"). Cornelius points out that: 1) it doesn't work that way; 2) Gunther continued to work with Motta after 1975; 3) Motta expelled Gunther from his "A.'. A.'."; 4) Motta began circulating his commentary in 1965 (well before any of our boys joined up) in typescript, so wasn't his authority gone years before they joined?( c)OTO Initiates to the V now swear to live by not only AL, but also the Tunis Comment, whereas in pre-Breeze days only AL was included in this pledge. They also now have to swear to not being members of any non "duplex" Thelemic organizations.
 
He claims the Mottaite takeover of the OTO, and their subsequent A.'. A.'. claims were a conscious "entryist" strategy (he does not use this Stalinist term, but it's what he describes) pursued after Motta lost the Maine copyright case to the (c)OTO: "The official proclamation stated that the Order unanimously elected [Breeze], but of course this is hardly true. He simply got the most votes, and no matter how many times the votes were taken the same conclusion was always reached. Everybody voted for themselves and the Mottaites united and voted for Breeze." (p. 121)
 
Perhaps his most startling claim: No one in the current OTO actually knows the IX "secret" (pp. 43-7). When Breeze took over, there were no male IXs involved in the (c)OTO. Breeze, on being elevated to X from IV, was "given the secret" by Helen Parsons-Smith and Phyllis Seckler, two female IXs. According to Cornelius, "[T]hese women's husbands might have conferred upon them a partial secret but, in truth, women in general were not required to know the IX secret; you sleep with them, and they officially skip every degree and become an automatic IX... Hence the early stories fostered of how the true secret was simply having sex with a male IX and then letting them make a wish; which is all the women were taught according to Grady." [p. 45]
 
There's lots there and i have only scratched the surface. I'm sure others can chime in and add or contradict what i've written
This topic was modified 1 week ago 4 times by ignant666

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Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

Breeze tried to expel him for consorting with Peter Koenig, but mostly for being an OTO member who was an initiate of a non-Mottaite A.'. A.'.

This is one of the "biggest" current charges. It has been said that NOBODY gets a high OTO grade unless the are in/from the Motta A.'.A.'. lineage (even though the current guys were expelled by Motta). This implies that there was a sub-group that formed under Motta, was expelled by Motta, then wandered over to the McMurtry camp - where they infiltrated and overtook the movement. They are now the "movers," but their "movement" is currently shrouded in secrecy and silence and no "bookwork" is forthcoming.

I wish I could draw a moral from this brief outline, but it's best to let each reader form their own yama/niyama.

Posted by: @ignant666

Motta was never a member of OTO, and never more than a 1=10 (or perhaps 2=9) in the A.'. A.'., is mentioned.

All accounts that I have read indicate that Motta never rose above 0=0. I cannot prove this, and so what? The bottom line is that Motta was a gradejumper, leaping upward to 8=3 overnight (which is "legal" under A.'.A,', regs). As mentioned, he was NEVER an OTO member of any grade. Yeat he materialized both orgs, and gave birth to the fellows who would take over the whole Gordian Knot.

Posted by: @ignant666

There's lots there and i have only scratched the surface. I'm sure others can chime in and add or contradict what i've written

A fine summary. Readers may note that the story gets more and more complex as it unfolds. I would only question the idea that "there were no IX* male members." I was not there, so I cannot speak with "known facts," but I have read the transcript of the "election" twice, and as I understand it, it was a Council of IX degrees who had the vote. It is also recorded that McMurtry issued several IX*s - with a written Oath that they would not found Lodges or initiate candidates until after his death.

So I must question the part about who voted for who, and who had the IX*. Fortunately, my question doesn't really matter in terms of who is in what position now.

I find it interesting that Gunther was 4=7, and Breeze was IV*, before their rapid ascent began. I have often spoken of the (generally unpublished) dangers of Netzach.

 


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ignant666
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Posted by: @shiva

Council of IX degrees

According to Cornelius, this Council was composed almost entirely of "Provisional" IXs (and Seckler and Parsons-Smith, the "automatic" IXs), who were IX solely for the purpose of electing a new US X, but not substantive IXs in that they did not know the "secret", and thus could "not found Lodges or initiate candidates."

They were supposed to devolve back to their actual degrees (none higher than V) post-election but of course declined to.


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hadgigegenraum
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@ignant666 

Thanks for the excellent review and relative to my own reading and skimming the book last night...yes the content outpaces editing issues, and I appreciate Mr. Cornelius's making it available and apparently not in a limited edition.

Thanks for noting, LOL....

Posted by: @ignant666

Perhaps his most startling claim: No one in the current OTO actually knows the IX "secret" (pp. 43-7). When Breeze took over, there were no male IXs involved in the (c)OTO. Breeze, on being elevated to X from IV, was "given the secret" by Helen Parsons-Smith and Phyllis Seckler, two female IXs. According to Cornelius, "[T]hese women's husbands might have conferred upon them a partial secret but, in truth, women in general were not required to know the IX secret; you sleep with them, and they officially skip every degree and become an automatic IX... Hence the early stories fostered of how the true secret was simply having sex with a male IX and then letting them make a wish; which is all the women were taught according to Grady." [p. 45

This basically is the frigging joke of the Aeon! 

I note that I also purchased volume 8 of the Cornelius's Essays, where in that one devoted to Norman Mudd,  J. Cornelius references a letter from Leah Hirsig, denouncing the Tunis Comment. I do not think that Cornelius mentions this is the Cult of Aleister Crowley, where the Tunis Comment is so central to the power grab, so here is the quote from the first heretic, or rather free thinker!

   "I therefore return Copy No. 2 of your Book, signifying that I revoke all my recognition of your heretofore as Beast, or Priest of the Princes, or as having any authority whatsoever in respect to the law of Thelema." footnote recognizing Perdurabo pg 425  

I think that is relevant to add this quote, for if it is not in the book, it would help to expand discussion of the issue of the Tunis Comment, which until coming upon Cornelius's book, I had no idea was such a big issue...I knew there was insanity, but not to this level of idiocy.

 

 

 

 

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

According to Cornelius, this Council was composed almost entirely of "Provisional" IXs

Yes, that is term I forgot. Provisional. As I heard it, they signed an Oath that they would not Initiate or Found until after McM's death. This sounds like they would still be IX*s. I had not caught the part about not getting the secret.

As to the secret and how it was transmitted, I prefer to remain lost. I sense a lot of political maneuvers combined with "let's pretend." The end result is obvious: "Everyone voting for themselves" tells us "ego rains" [sic], and the Order obviously needed to be destroyed (again).

"Except for the Mottaites, who voted for HB," thus proving that a few smart plotters (true politicians) can usurp (and destroy) an Order - and then rebuild it in their own image. They have painted pictures in words of their image - mostly, we don't like it, so we are officially the unclean outcasts. There are, of course, others. Everybody who gets "up there" and quits (or is cast out) has a tale to tell.

Their tales, along with Jerry's, should be combined into a textbook that is required in any brain class above Psych 101.

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

This basically is the frigging joke of the Aeon!

Well, it's one of them. The other can be found in eL G More.

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @ignant666
  
   .

Thank you so much for this review! This makes me want to get the book even more. It sounds like it has some extremely interesting and intriguing history in it. 

 

"New World Teacher"/"Thelemic Messiah" J. Daniel "Handsome Dan" Gunther

Are people actually calling him these things, or "Thelemic Pope"?  😱 

 

Hence the early stories fostered of how the true secret was simply having sex with a male IX and then letting them make a wish;

I was never in the OTO but I want to make a joke about checking degrees of people I was at parties hosted by OTO people with. 


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ignant666
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Posted by: @katrice

Are people actually calling him these things [...]?

Yes, he is almost universally known as "Handsome Dan", for obvious reasons.

The (c)OTO/"duplex" "A.'. A.'." has backed off referring to him openly as "New World Teacher" and/or "Thelemic Messiah" since it was so very badly received. I believe i also saw "Messiah of the New Aeon" at some point.

See Cornelius p. 40 for a reproduced tour announcement for a 2009 "Handsome Dan" (c)OTO Lodge appearance in Australia, where he is referred to as "the first World Teacher of the New Aeon since Aleister Crowley." He also quotes Lon Milo Duqette's 2017 public announcement that

I shall not endorse or support the suggestion that any living individual speaks as the orthodox voice of “Thelema.” Nor will I endorse or support any claims or suggestion that any living person is the next “World Teacher” or other such messianic appellation.

which you can see here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/thelema/comments/7kvoyy/missive_from_oto_senior_living_member_and_deputy/


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @ignant666

They also now have to swear to not being members of any non "duplex" Thelemic organizations

Yes-and this is further elaborated upon in the One Spirit book as follows:

 

"The reader should note that by “other Thelemic organizations” I am referring to any group that does not operate under the auspices of the O.T.O. or the A∴A∴ but which claims to represent Thelema. These include actual organizations that have been formed, as well as visible online Thelemic communities. At the time of this writing, several examples of physical Thelemic organizations can be named, whether they exist presently or have in the past. They include the Typhonian Order, the Fraternitas Saturni, the Gnostic Body of God, the Temple of Thelema, the Temple of the Silver Star, Society Ordo Templi Orientis, the Order of Thelemic Knights, the Holy Order of Ra-Hoor-Khuit (H.O.O.R.), the Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn, the Temple of Babalon, the Ordo Astri, Ordo Sunyata Vajra, the Invisible House Society, The Gnostic Church of L.V.X., Horus-Maat Lodge, Cor Lucis, Thelemic Union, and Technicians of the Sacred. These are just a few."

 

I was surprised to read Paul's words of surprise when I alluded to OTO, Inc forbidding members from particpation on this site. Quite clearly, Lashtal is one of the most prominent “online Thelemic communities.” And its active membership includes individuals with ties to at least several of the groups above. Furthermore, said members of this site cheerfully violate the commands of the Tunis Comment on a regular basis.

 

And then, as our resident Attorney has indicated, there is the overwhelming circumstantial evidence.

 

I would love to hear an alternate conclusion one might draw. A speculation, even. Something like “Well, maybe all dues-paying members of the Duplexity just aren't interested in any of the topics being discussed on the official site of the Aleister Crowley Society...for years...when they used to do so on a daily basis...”

 

But here's the thing: I don't care one way or the other. I'm not a disgruntled ex-Caliphate with an axe to grind. However, accepting the Law of Thelema as I do, I find the doings of said organization to be aptly described, in the words of J. Cornelius, as Restrictionist.

 

“The Cult of AC” seems to describe how Religion (and its neurosis) is born, how the Wild Flame of Inspiration is caught and cult-ivated into Dogma.

 

Therion warned against embrace of the “Demon Crowley.” How do we identify this “Demon?” We could say all the reprehensible bad-boy behavior we are all conversant with belongs to that “Demon” while the Avatar shines through in the pages of The Book of Lies. And yes, this would be true-BUT (!) I think we might also see the Demon getting subtle in the pervasive religiosity of the Crowley Cult (which he, himself, created...along the lines of the “Old Aeon” he elsewhere hissed and spat at).

 

Lots of good stuff in the opening of the book. I gather that Jerry carries forward Crowley's Thelema without the personal encumbrance of the Demon on Therion's back.

 

I have more to read yet-and more to say. But these are a few opening thoughts....

 


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It will now become my duty to display a very rare collector's item, with value beyond belief or lies (for those who indulge in esoteric history). A photo of Motta's 4-horsemen was to be published In The Center of the Fire by Wasserman.

But one horseman did nnot  wish his pic to be made public - so it never made the book.

But here it is - I don't know the date. The facial imagery of the horseman who didn't want his pic pubick-sized has been altered sufficiently that nobody will ever recognize him. It is possible that he also did not want to be associated, in photography, with his former "friends." who he had previously left behind.

image

L to R: Wasserman, Breeze, Alfred, Gunther

Read their auras, catch their smiles, who was destined for what?


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

Read their auras, catch their smiles, who was destined for what?

I endeavor to reject the false and embrace the true...

At least below the Abyss.

I note our old friend

Alfred E. Neu-Aeon

They say he's MAD. But he DOES deliver the Glad Word, does he not?

After all, he displays a missing TOOTH that we might know the SHIN within our own Being (accepting no substitute Words from dubious "Builders").


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ignant666
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Posted by: @shiva

In The Center of the Fire by Wasserman

Which does include this pic of Two Creepy Hippie Junkies Sitting On A Fire Escape:

image

Need one say more? Why would anyone allow that photo to be reproduced, let alone appear on the cover of a book?


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hadgigegenraum
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Frankly devolving into people's appearances is rather childish and was something AC did when considering his attacks upon Norman Mudd's appearances, who was not necessarily a conquerer in his own estimation, but he might have enjoyed enjoining with the Leah, the Ape of Thoth who threw out the Tunis Comment perhaps with the help of his engorgement.....Thus did Hirsig's heroic act set the stage for liberation...but that would not have significance to Mudd who gave it all up, to kill himself by filling with sea water...

So relative to the pictures of the middle age restrictionists at the college reunion, the picture of Jerry Cornelius in his book reveals that he never cut his hair or never cut his beard, donned in all black like an artiste, with black hat ta boot, and is he wearing a cape or raincoat, black of course.... and his belly button indentation seen through the black shirt looks like it could be the entrance to a black hole...which to some might suggest transgressive practices...but being a married man....well that is his private business!...but he does look like some sort of wizard whose earned the merit as an author with tales of moral import from his battles, like some knight of some order of chivalry, taking on the principalities of darkness, those corporate machinations are the real threat to the world today, with  jealous secrets, powers of expulsion, and emblems and trademarks...yawn...

 

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

Need one say more?

I will say more, whether it's "needed" or "knot."

Mr Breeze is (well) known to be camera-shy. Therefore, there are not many photos of him. I have 3 or 4. There is a fifth, which I do not have. Why do I have these in my collection? I have a collection of every Thelemic-related person who posed for a pic (or was camera-shy, but got caught anyway): Achad, Wolfe, McM, etc. I am left empty when it comes to pics from Solar Lodge. One 8x10 landscape had captured about 12 construction workers posing in front of a metal building; another showed Capricornus sitting at a table (long after I left); a couple Polaroids from 1965 features myself and (3) others in ceremonial attire. But these are all lost.

In the Center's cover depicts a thin man. Other (earlier) pictures show a tall, thin man. Wasserman describes him as "incredibly thin." But by the time the pic I posted was taken, he had gained some weight.

I suspect that the cover pic was used because "no other picture depicts what the author wanted," namely a pic of him and Breeze together, and this was the only[?] one. The text describes the picture as "taken with my brother's camera." Note: "My brother" was Alfred. Alfred didn't mind James using it on the cover, but he nixed the pic of the four of them.

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

the picture of Jerry Cornelius in his book reveals that he never cut his hair or never cut his beard, donned in all black like an artiste, with black hat ta boot, and is he wearing a cape or raincoat, black of course.

Yes, that is Jerry. A hairy man, seemingly always dressed in black garb. Yonder beggar might be a king - yonder hippy might be an OHO. Who can tell?

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

tales of moral import from his battles, like some knight of some order of chivalry, taking on the principalities of darkness

In the language and tradition of the Order, this is exactly what he did.

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

those corporate machinations are the real threat to the world today

Yeah. And the knight lost ... but lived on to become a bard who chronicled the tale ... and continues to sign to this day.

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

powers of expulsion

Well, look, it doesn't matter if you quit or get expelled. The bottom line is that you can't expect to be taken seriously until you've left a high-grade office under duress. That is, you're nobody 'til you've been canned.

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

Frankly devolving into people's appearances is rather childish and was something AC did when considering his attacks upon Norman Mudd's appearances

I agree.

Posted by: @ignant666

Two Creepy Hippie Junkies Sitting On A Fire Escape

I've not read this book by JW but I always thought the cover image looked quite cool. WERE they both actually "junkies?" If one were to be simply shown this pic and asked "What would you say about these two guys?" I don't know that ANYONE would say "Whoa, looks like two dudes on smack." They could be art students, writers, musicians from that cool 60's rock band, "Fire Escape."

I'm simply speaking to the aesthetics of an old black and white photo, divorced from any opinion of the people themselves. It reminds me of old friends from college and many good times hanging out for all night conversations and adventures. No drugs involved.  

Likewise, the pic of Erica and Jerry on p. 17 is also pretty cool. And I want his hat!

 

   


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

WERE they both actually "junkies?"

Yeah. The book talks more about heroin than Magick or Mysticism. The book relates the history of the (USA) OTO after Solar Lodge, and it leads up to present day (a few years ago). The climax come when HB, the new Caliph, tells JW that he has to knock off the h-usage.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

I don't know that ANYONE would say "Whoa, looks like two dudes on smack."

The picture was represented as being a moment of epiphany. I agree that different folks would see different things, but Ignant is a "subject matter expert" in knowing/detecting these things (about heroin). 

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

The book talks more about heroin than Magick or Mysticism.

That sounds disappointing.

Posted by: @shiva

The picture was represented as being a moment of epiphany. I agree that different folks would see different things, but Ignant is a "subject matter expert" in knowing/detecting these things (about heroin).

I believe you-and I believe you both know much more than myself as to these sordid details.

The gist of the book at hand (Cult of AC), however, seems to be much more about the "Restrictionist" agenda than problems with drug-addiction. People with something of value to express may also have addictions and imperfections and problems. They may also be ugly in our subjective estimate. The focus of this book, however, points toward something else...power plays and power grabs. Religious dogma embraced and/or manipulated for the sake of establishing power. And this I find revolting. Thelema is all about liberating the Individual but there are other agendas afoot which seem  to embody a sustained and continuous "crush and contain" approach.  

Beyond the APK to the latter, there is the path of personal development and growth. There are some great words to this effect at the beginning of the book. I am thinking that JC might carry this forward even better than AC, himself. AC blurred all the lines and fucked up even his own brilliance. Not with ego but craven need-whether it be emotional, sexual or financial.

But there is always "that which remains."  


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

The gist of the book at hand (Cult of AC), however, seems to be much more about the "Restrictionist" agenda than problems with drug-addiction.

The Fire book was written from JW's point of view. It seems everybody used heroin, but JW got [gasp] addicted. He hung around HB and DG, but he (JW) was not a prime mover.

The Revisionists were/are obviously Breeze and Gunther. They are the duples of duplexity. Dan oversees the one true A.'.A.'. order (and the rest of us are fakirs), and Bill oversees the legally-qualified OTO (and the rest of you are defendants).

When I was a kid (age 10-12), we lived in a duplex. These are two houses that are attached by one wall (no windows or doors in that wall). Get it? One building, two abodes - joined but separate.

I have not heard of drug problems in the higher hierarchy (except for JW, who self-confessed after he cleaned up. Now they did start to get bad press due to heavy drug use and sales by attendees at public events, so they had to take a hard line on drugs and prohibit them. This is what happens when one allows the uninitiated pubic publick into the ancient mysterious mysteries.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

there are other agendas afoot which seem  to embody a sustained and continuous "crush and contain" approach.  

Right. You're old enough to have watched it happen, aren't you? Maybe you weren't involved or watching at that time. Almost everyone in the Thelemic world dropped their jaw at one point or another, and most found it, like yourself, revolting.

"Organized Thelema" is the name of the game. Please pay your dues in advance (that one is from the Crowley-Reuss era).

Today, everyone has aged (a lot) from the days of conflict, courts, and copyrights. Book production has essentially ceased. The courtrooms are quiet. The last I heard, the membership numbers and income had declined. I wonder what is happening now?

 


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ignant666
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The infamous fire escape picture was undoubtedly chosen because there were few pics of Wasserman and Breeze. Back when film cost money and printing pictures cost more, fewer pictures were taken.

But i think it was also chosen because Breeze, with his robe and beard and long Jesus hair, was thought to look "saintly", whereas to me he just looks strung out. And reptilian, the way he looks in all of the few pics of him that exist.

Partly this is personal knowledge of their heroin use outside the pic , because i was a regular customer at occult book/bric-a-brac store Magickal Childe, where they both worked, and traveled in slightly overlapping social circles. One of the dispatchers at the messenger service i worked at for most of the '80s was the drummer in Turner & Kirwan of Wexford, and then The Major Thinkers, who played all the OTO/Magickal Childe parties.

And of course i later spent more than 20 years doing research with/about heroin users and dealers in NYC, and have dozens of published peer-reviewed papers on this topic, so i indeed qualify as a "subject matter expert". On both heroin, and NYC alternative culture.


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hadgigegenraum
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@ignant666 

Interesting....and the simple hypothesis (pretty basic), or rather observation,  is that the heroin user 'craves' the next fix, and thus for junkies, there is going to be a patterning upon the personality in general relative behaviors that are developed around getting the next fix.

Hence, junkies whose other habit are occult fixes, work in occult book shops to corner the latest acquisition, or have work credits for purchases, etc, would invariably apply the same habit patterns relative to institutional power....which in the junkie world would usually be along the lines of criminal enterprise, ultimately controlled by some gang or mafia.

Here we have the rare interface of a the ultimate craving for those whose occult hungers are fixated upon a talented junkie, AC, at the head of a totally occult organization with global reach and ambitions...to which future junkies grab hold of...invariably upon behaviors that are typical of junkie conniving....

Now the question concerns more than the craving junkie, but rather the satiated one, and were satiation leads to a cocooning reflex then stalls the need to do anything more than further consolidate power positions.....

For when you have all the books, why publish more for others to go through the curriculums....

Of course the issue of junkies is probably very connected with the issue of the "Poser" that is very much cultivated in vacuous commercial culture through advertising....

 

 

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

Hence, junkies whose other habit are occult fixes, work in occult book shops to corner the latest acquisition, or have work credits for purchases, etc, would invariably apply the same habit patterns relative to institutional power....which in the junkie world would usually be along the lines of criminal enterprise, ultimately controlled by some gang or mafia.

This makes me think of Burroughs and his views on Junk and Control. In fact, I would suspect that you are already quite conversant with WSB's writings on the topic based on this post alone. 

Your post is very suggestive in that the JC's Cult of AC deals with the open-ended ecumenical Cornelius camp vs. the rules and regulations of the "One Cult to rule them all."

Burroughs wrote a piece called "Word Authority More Habit Forming than Heroin." Your post seems to point in this direction.

Posted by: @shiva

The courtrooms are quiet. The last I heard, the membership numbers and income had declined. I wonder what is happening now?

Well, it's not been a flurry of activity here at the Home of the Aleister Crowley Society!

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Well, it's not been a flurry of activity here at the Home of the Aleister Crowley Society!

Yeah. A lotta people stopped dropping in when the big lockup-lockdown started, but the past few months have been quite slow.

Since we (humanity) seems to have entered "the point of tension" in the "crisis situation," a lot of folks are having to deal with hard physical plane problems, emotional meltdowns, mental breakdowns, visitations by angels and/or aliens, and they might not have time to drop into the pub - we call them saloons out here in the wild wild west.

Anyway, The A.C. Society is an armchair lodge of the great invisible order. We hang out here to discuss things. We are not the sole legal custodians of the Malkuthian Order that collects dues and has previously promised to print interesting books (now in Gallic gallery galley proofs for a decade - predating the pandemonic by 8 years. Or has it been longer?

 


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Tiger
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" Later, while standing in my kitchen, Frater HB asked me. " well, do you want your suspension lifted ? " I slowly grinned, looked him in the eye and replied, "Sure. Why not ? " We both hugged & he said he was satisfied with tonight and reinstated me, in full ! " It was 10:17 pm. The Cult of Aleister Crowley pg271


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

Yeah. A lotta people stopped dropping in when the big lockup-lockdown started, but the past few months have been quite slow

No, they stopped dropping by when they signed up for the One Truth, One Spirit Cultus. If anything, a true "lock-down" should have amplified online activity.

Unless of course, the "Duplexitous" are also "Essential Workers." Maybe we don't see so many posts due to all the drivers for Amazon and Wal-Mart. When a hard working EW gets home after some serious overtime, there's precious little time to nuke a TV Dinner, say Will and do a tardy Resh.

Posted by: @shiva

Since we (humanity) seems to have entered "the point of tension" in the "crisis situation," a lot of folks are having to deal with hard physical plane problems, emotional meltdowns, mental breakdowns, visitations by angels and/or aliens, and they might not have time to drop into the pub - we call them saloons out here in the wild wild west.

There is no question that the "psychosphere" is pressing inward onto all brains. It is NOT a glorious sign of the New Aeon. Powerful parasites are pushing in and the battle is on...

Posted by: @shiva

Anyway, The A.C. Society is an armchair lodge of the great invisible order.

Yes, it is. I mentioned Erwin earlier. I disagreed with his views on many things and thought he was a very disingenuous poster. He certainly wasn't above ad hominem attacks and deflection when his position was challenged. But I will say this: Erwin once shot back at me and his bullet hit its target well. I won't say what the comment was but it was a great example of Blake's statement: "Opposition is True Friendship." Erwin showed me something in that moment and that is how it works in the Great Brotherhood. In the 

Posted by: @shiva

great invisible order

we learn and grow and move forward.

Posted by: @shiva

We are not the sole legal custodians of the Malkuthian Order that collects dues

Nope. We collect NONE and keep to the Rosicrucian Ideal. Take no coin for service or healing or help rendered.

The A.A. as I am led to understand adheres to this admonition. Kenneth Grant's Ordo Typhonis does as well. 

Posted by: @shiva

previously promised to print interesting books

This is most curious to me. RTC clearly isn't making bank from his booklets. But when OTO has issued a work by Crowley, they get printed by Weiser and make bank. Why not issue a new work, make some money and stay "relevant?" 

The first Crowley book I ever bought was Liber Aleph. It was GREAT. It baffled my brain. I had not even read The Book of the Law (which I had to order from a local New Age Bookstore). But it was GREAT! This is the Weiser edition with all the multi-colored Alephs on the front cover. I still have this. It's a battered book but this edition really holds up. Bill Breeze's Intro is great. The care in assembling this work is evident.

Why is nothing like this being issued presently?

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

No, they stopped dropping by when they signed up for the One Truth, One Spirit Cultus.

My prophet is a fool with his one, one, one ...

You're right. This used to be like 10 Saloon threads going at a time, with fights and mental disturbance everywhere. I enjoyed it. But it was the enjoyment of a younger man who thought that sort of thing was like going to several parties on the same block.

But I never realized that those rowdy fellows were in the Tong. Thanks for pointing that out.

It seems I referred to a long period between the wild west days and the lockup. It was not busy-busy, but it moved along with several parallel threads. Right now (today), to see three active threads is like magic.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Why is nothing like this being issued presently?

This is the Great Mystery of our Times. The Times of Independent or Clandestine Thelemites who do not pay dues and thus are not privy to what's going on inside a serious and secret order.


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EpsilonPiEta
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There used to be a time when there was some correlation between “knowledge acquisition” and daring. Back when “knowledge” was hard to acquire and you had to work for it. Either by joining some orgs like the OTO or gasp, making friends in the local occult book shop. Sadly, those days are gone and now that all of the knowledge is basically free, there is something lost.  'Where is the lightning to lick you with its tongue? Where is the madness, with which you should be cleansed?'

I remember how joyful I was in college at about 20 years old when I realized/learned that I could actually go into a book shop, talk to the counter girl and order “The Golden Dawn", by Regardie. I studied that book for years. (I probably should go back and study it more.) I think what I’m trying to say is that something _is_ changing in this new-ish aeon in some ways. It’s especially ironic that in this newish age of “free” knowledge that these two trends are going in the opposite direction: OTO not “officially” publishing and members possibly being forbidden from eating of the Lashtal-ian apple… so ironic. Does anyone remember how impactful it was to read for the first time “I peck at the eyes of Jesus…”

There were probably multiple reasons to "join" something back then, but knowledge and friendship were likely two top contenders.  Now basically with knowledge everywhere, (even the III degree word is floating around the net) the real reason is friendship.  If you threaten to take that away by booting members... for daring to eat of the apple.......


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ignant666
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Wasserman worked with Brazilian occultist Marcelo Ramos Motta to publish the Commentaries of AL in 1975, for which he wrote the introduction. [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Wasserman ]

So let me get this straight: Motta became a "centre of pestilence" and forfeited his A.'. A.'. authority (which was inherited by his students Gunther, Breeze and Wasserman), because he published his commentary on AL in 1975, the commentary that Wasserman wrote the introduction to?

"Holy convoluted logic, Batman!" quoth the Boy Wonder. I mean, what the actual fuck?

In law school, we were taught the "Straight Face Rule", which is that a legal argument is any argument you can make in court with a straight face, and without actually cracking up laughing. I am not sure this argument passes this basic test.


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @ignant666

"Holy convoluted logic, Batman!" quoth the Boy Wonder. I mean, what the actual fuck?

I am sure there will be a member of the OTO, Inc showing up any moment now to defend this logic.

The glove has been thrown to the floor.

Any second, now....

 


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Steven Mancuzzi
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@kidneyhawk:

The first Crowley book I ever bought was Liber Aleph. It was GREAT. It baffled my brain. I had not even read The Book of the Law (which I had to order from a local New Age Bookstore). But it was GREAT! This is the Weiser edition with all the multi-colored Alephs on the front cover. I still have this. It's a battered book but this edition really holds up. Bill Breeze's Intro is great. The care in assembling this work is evident.

Why is nothing like this being issued presently?

It's a question that numerous people have asked for the better part of the past twenty years. Why has an organization whose US figurehead has claimed to be "the religion of Aleister Crowley" has let their own holy books go out of print? Why has an organization whose international figurehead's background in publishing is well known failed to produce any new material? Why has an organization which fought a large legal battle in the 1980s to justify their status as inheiritors in part of Crowley's literary estate let any of AC's work go out of print?

Guess a LOT came out of all those lawsuits. But hey... they throw some pretty cool parties and such.

Their heads seem to be squarely in the sand here.


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katrice
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Posted by: @alayin

 Why has an organization which fought a large legal battle in the 1980s to justify their status as inheiritors in part of Crowley's literary estate let any of AC's work go out of print?

Which makes little sense from several perspectives. From a fundraising perspective on the mundane level, but also from a magickal and Aeonic perspective too.

Maybe the Law isn't for All any more?

 

Though most everything can be found online now. I know I've read more Crowley online than I've read in print. But I think it should be available in print too. 

 

But hey... they throw some pretty cool parties and such.

Can confirm. 😉


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @katrice

Maybe the Law isn't for All any more?

That would be a shame. Seeing that Tobias Churton* in his various AC biographies (at least on the biography side we are pampered) always quotes from the unabridged Confessions (promised for years/decades) and also iirc from the Collected Diaries one can a) remain hopeful or b) fear that it might be the agenda Jerry speaks of that impede their publication. I haven't started with the book yet so I enjoy the input from you all (just as well as most of the other threads, though I am one of those Lashtalians who were mostly reading visitors for the last year).

Love=Law

Lutz

*who seems to have complete access, even if his "Lesion theory" seems also quite far from the "official" Cairo myth.


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ignant666
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

unabridged Confessions (promised for years/decades)

Ready for publication of volume I "this year" as of April 2013, included in the same announcement as the "kill/fill" revelation:

https://www.oto.org/news0413.html

And

[A] new edition of The Diary of a Drug-Fiend that includes Crowley’s corrections and final additions, with his notes and a good editorial apparatus, needing only the introduction completed [and] newly-mastered versions of several out of print “backlist” titles—Liber Aleph, Eight Lectures on Yoga, The Law is for All, The Revival of Magick and Little Essays Toward Truth, that are nearly ready to be sent to press.

And

We are in the final stages (indexing—or rather, reindexing!) [of] what will be the third volume in the series (chronologically), The American Diaries (Equinox IV(3)). This will be followed by the first volume, The Early Diaries (Equinox IV(4)), which is in second page proofs. We are optimistic that The American Diaries will go to press around mid-summer [2013].

The following month, Breeze referred "the excellent website www.lashtal.com", BTW, in citing "an independent European scholar who is a frequent contributor [...] under the name Lutz":

https://www.oto.org/legis2.pdf

How times change.

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

Maybe the Law isn't for All any more?

Good point. Now, we know that The Law is for All - every unit is striving, in it's own way, for self-realization. So self-discovery (or self-dissolution) is always available, and always has been, for those who (themselves) start to pull themselves up by their own boot-straps. This concept is now enshrined in the term "boot" for computers.

But the booting gets clouded by those who gain the high ground and erect an intermediary "solution" that really is (can be) a barrier. See any religion. The Romans are a prime example. Oh yeah, to this list, add the name Ordo[TM][R].

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

The Law is for All - every unit is striving, in it's own way, for self-realization. So self-discovery (or self-dissolution) is always available, and always has been, for those who (themselves) start to pull themselves up by their own boot-straps. This concept is now enshrined in the term "boot" for computers.

But the booting gets clouded by those who gain the high ground and erect an intermediary "solution" that really is (can be) a barrier. See any religion. The Romans are a prime example. Oh yeah, to this list, add the name Ordo[TM][R].

My underlinings in the "Preface" of The Cult of Aleister Crowley include these statements from the author:

"Thelema is a philosophy rooted in our ability to let everyone around us live their Will before ours...When he (Crowley) informs his followers that “there is no God but man,” he wants his followers to worship themselves above all else because the real implication of his phrase is that God and Man are One and the Same-As Above, So Below...Crowley is also saying that we must love everything in our immediate world since everything is some aspect of a greater being, ourselves included...this rebellious, Luciferic attitude is a requirement that forces us to stop looking in the outer world for justification of our personal beliefs. To find God we must go within...but certainty is a difficult path to follow..Yes, structure is needed in your pursuit to discover your True Will but you must come to reject the premise of an absolute Truth which numerous occult traditions or Orders promise if you follow them to the letter. There is too much ass-kissing of superiors along the way...you must discover Thelema for yourself..."

 


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @ignant666

We are optimistic that The American Diaries will go to press around mid-summer [2013]

That means we are waiting for those as long as for the famous watermark proof. Only coincidence?


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

you must come to reject the premise of an absolute Truth

I disagree. There is one absolute truth. It is the end result of all paths, shortcuts, and premonitions. It is nothing. It is called Ain, Void, Empty, Nirvana, Dzogchen, and so forth.

In the West, we like to posit (position) some great truth, some universal medicine. The Orientals get the "Void" concept more easily.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Only coincidence?

Coincidence suggests two (co-), or more, happenings (incidents) that happen at the same time. So, yes, Watermarks and Promises of Summer the thirteenth of the century are in fact coincidental. Only the "only" remains to sort out.

This coincidence doesn't "mean" anything to us unless it is a meaningful coincidence. Well, of course it's meaningful to us. It suggest RTC and HB are in a conspiracy (against us, of course). But there is no rational proof, so we fall back on acausal. Acausal means there is no proof, no cause (that we can see and take to court), but our inner self knows damn well that these two events/gestures/claims are part of the same current - whose number is neither 93 nor 418.

 


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AhihChiva567
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Coincidence suggests two (co-), or more, happenings (incidents) that happen at the same time. So, yes, Watermarks and Promises of Summer the thirteenth of the century are in fact coincidental. Only the "only" remains to sort out.

This coincidence doesn't "mean" anything to us unless it is a meaningful coincidence. Well, of course it's meaningful to us. It suggest RTC and HB are in a conspiracy (against us, of course). But there is no rational proof, so we fall back on acausal. Acausal means there is no proof, no cause (that we can see and take to court), but our inner self knows damn well that these two events/gestures/claims are part of the same current - whose number is neither 93 nor 418.

Before AL - I was a nihilist, no meaning, no hope; only the existential mystery of the deepest will to live, keeping me alive. There is no thing, and all words and signs are for the convenience of knowing I AM NOT I. The paradox that my "one" answer was nothing after all. Ridiculous.


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

I disagree. There is one absolute truth. It is the end result of all paths, shortcuts, and premonitions. It is nothing. It is called Ain, Void, Empty, Nirvana, Dzogchen, and so forth.

You mean that which is beyond all Contraries, Conflicts, Dualities and Definitions?

The opposite of "Truth" is "Falsehood"-but in that Void, there is neither.

But I understand what you are saying-and I suspect you understand the context of Jerry's comment.

And I am most likely just splitting Magicole Hairs...


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

You mean that which is beyond all Contraries, Conflicts, Dualities and Definitions?

Yeah, that's it. Or rather, That's [not] it.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

I suspect you understand the context of Jerry's comment.

Yes, I hinted at that (context) when I held forth about Western Intermediaries.


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Damien
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Posted by: @katrice

I was never in the OTO but I want to make a joke about checking degrees of people I was at parties hosted by OTO people with. 

That kind of joke is not allowed in any official OTO body post 1999. 


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Damien
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Posted by: @shiva

This is one of the "biggest" current charges.

Is it that current? This has been the case since at least the early 90's. The real go-getters I knew could never rise above PI or understand the limitation. And several of them got suspended and then expelled for variety of nonsensical reasons. 

Grand Lodge used to release a membership by degree list (do they still?). The Man of Earth Triad would have impressive membership numbers. Then there was only a handful of people above the V. 


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Patriarch156
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As a longtime member of LAShTAL.com and a senior member of the O.T.O. I have to admit that I am befuddled as to any claim that members of the O.T.O. are forbidden from visiting LAShTAL.com. I am aware of no such edict and visit quite often and know several others who does as well. I have always admired Paul and what he has tried to accomplish with this site and the AC Society.


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ignant666
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If so, glad to hear it!

But this, cited above from Readdy's One Truth and One Spirit, sure does sound like such a policy, one that would seem to apply to lashtal as the preeminent "visible online Thelemic communit[y]":

The reader should note that by “other Thelemic organizations” [that OTO members must avoid] I am referring to any group that does not operate under the auspices of the O.T.O. or the A∴A∴ but which claims to represent Thelema. These include actual organizations that have been formed, as well as visible online Thelemic communities.

You're the first poster to say they are a member of the (c)OTO in many years.

And welcome back after your 10 year absence from posting!


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Patriarch156
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@ignant666 the actual quote from the book does not contain the phrase "that OTO members must avoid". In actual fact in context the quote is merely the author limiting the topic of his book to the OTO and the AA.

Having said that, I cheerfully thank you for the welcome back after a decade of absence. My reasons for absence however is my own and unrelated to the O.T.O. But both Paul and Lutz are aware of why I stopped posting to this forum and that it has nothing to do with any animosity towards either Paul nor LAShTAL.com.

In fact I expressed to Paul through PM my personal reasons upon my decision, as well as that I would continue to support both him and LAShTAL.com in any way I could.  If there is a dearth of open members of the O.T.O. contributing to these forums then the reasons are not in some imagined policy that does not exist to my knowledge.


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ignant666
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Posted by: @patriarch156

the actual quote from the book does not contain the phrase "that OTO members must avoid".

Well, obviously; that's why that phrase was in brackets. I was trying, by my bracketed addition, to convey my understanding of the context of the Readdy quote, based on an earlier post.

If i was mistaken, and the context of this quote was simply that Readdy's book (which i have not read) would not discuss things other than the (c)OTO and the "duplex" A.'. A.'., i am glad to be corrected.

Anyway, hope we'll see you around more often. The (c)OTO point of view is totally unrepresented here, and i think that's a pity.


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @patriarch156

I have to admit that I am befuddled as to any claim that members of the O.T.O. are forbidden from visiting LAShTAL.com. I am aware of no such edict and visit quite often

There is certainly a difference between “visiting” and “actively participating” and your own situation exemplifies this: visit for a decade but do not join a conversation during that time. There is also a difference between a formal edict and “unspoken rules and expectations” which carry certain consequences.

 

You, of course, would know much more of such things (should they exist) than myself. I based my previous and repeated allusions to members of your Organization being steered away from active participation in this “online Thelemic community” based on what you indicate to be a misreading of Mr. Readdy's intent with his list of groups and, yes, the seemingly overnight (and long-enduring) vanishing of what once was a very steady flow of enthusiastic posters from OTO, Inc, a startling and noticeable vacating the premises en masse.

 

However, should I be quite out in left field with my previously expressed perspectives, I will certainly eat my words and readjust my view.

 

And I agree wholeheartedly with Ignant:

Posted by: @ignant666

hope we'll see you around more often. The (c)OTO point of view is totally unrepresented here, and i think that's a pity

A warm welcome back from me as well and perhaps we'll begin to see an increasing diversity in perspectives on the threads!


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Shiva
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Posted by: @shiva

I held forth about Western Intermediaries.

In clarification, there is nothing wrong with an (inner) intermediary (HGA, Solar Angel, Anima-Animus, ADNI, [even] Atma, that sort of thing). Well, the lower, astral (Yesod) versions are unreliable. There are actually some Western people who work directly with the Void, but they have never relied upon an intermediary (as an independent entity or [consciously recognized as] part of their own being.

We need look no further than The Hot Zones of Anicca,  where this concept is illustrated ...

Screenshot from 2021 11 22 18 49 41

On both other hands, we have the common Oriental person who understands (the concept of) The Void without worrying about a guide, and myself, who spent most of most of my early adult life involved with the inner intermediary, and there were nine years of external intermediary. After 20 years (exactly), I came to my senses and began to shift into direct comprehension. 

The Angel is the way, of the A.'.A.'., and even today, I am quick to say: Find your Angel!

But here we're talking about the external intermediaries (gurus, messiahs, hierofantics, and Outer-Heads ... Oh my ).  And religions in general. Because they all take the Angel concept and draw some eternal absolute truth from it ... which they peddle to others for fees, dues, tithes, powers, or favors.

An example of this is the absolute truth about how our Soul is eternal. Which it isn't, because it's destroyed (made perfectly clear) at a certain stage. And the Angel abandons the initiate just about the same time - instead of always being there for you.

Anyway, I'm good with Angel or Void, just as long as the author or speaker makes it clear up front that one is temporary and the other absolute. Whether this absolute is true (a truth) is a matter for one of those duality threads.

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

I'm good with Angel or Void, just as long as the author or speaker makes it clear up front that one is temporary and the other absolute

I will agree with this.

It is my view on this matter that the Angel is initially envisioned and related to as an “Other.” One yearns for and endeavors to contact this “Being.” And at a certain stage, one becomes aware that the Angel is, likewise, seeking after the Aspirant. There are points of contact (Occult Experience) and, if one sticks with it, the two become one in a “Chymical Wedding.” You are no longer speaking of your Angel as your “Higher Self” or any kind of “Other” for you have become the Angel just as the Angel has become incarnate in its union with You (not simply incarnate AS you-but in its UNION with you).

 

In the teachings of Neville Goddard, this is expressed in the relationship between the Biblical “Father” and “Son.” Both are ultimately ONE THING or ONE BEING. And if this ONE BEING (as an incarnate or even discarnate individual) has yet to become ONE WITH THE VOID, they are operative as an Adept. The Adept is both moving into and proceeding FROM the VOID. In Kenneth Grant's writing this is the interplay between the “Arrow of Nuith” and the “Lightnings of Nodens.” In the Tarot, this is the card called The Star where the Sacred Waters flow in both directions at once.

Posted by: @shiva

the Angel abandons the initiate

I don't see the Angel as “abandoning us” per se as we have already become each “other.” Rather, we (The New Being) abandons Itself at the Abyss (and this was exemplified in the New Testament when Jesus, called by Neville “The Pattern Man,” says “Father, take this cup from me-but THY WILL, not MINE, be done.” This is the shift from individual Will into Cosmic Will, another milestone in the career of the Adept.

 

Is Frater R- Ignant, perchance?


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katrice
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

I don't see the Angel as “abandoning us” per se as we have already become each “other.”

Daemonic Integration.  

 

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

This is the shift from individual Will into Cosmic Will, another milestone in the career of the Adept.

Angel means "Messenger", implying a source of the message. 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

if this ONE BEING... has yet to become ONE WITH THE VOID, they are operative as an Adept.

Yes, and I agree with your complete revelation of The Path in a few paragraphs. I am content to let stand explanations of the void as relative to Binah, simply because the ego has to hit the zero point before Binah can be "entered." This is the "Saint" who has been slain.

Then there is the greater Void (Ain) that swallows up Saints and Gods. It doesn't get us (me) very far by pointing this out, because most folks are still solving the Binah mystery.

These are the three grades ...

1. The initiate (of the outer order, dues-paying or not) gets his/her vehicle together, and (I guarantee) something is going to have to be surrendered before passing on/up to Adept - who gets to talk to his Angel.

2. The Adept is going to fine-tune some abstract notions (his/her "karma"), and as we all know, he/she is led to the brink by the Angel. So, one must surrender to the idea that they now on their own, and any mental preconceptions must now be turned in for incineration or some other way to get rid of it.

3. The Supernal grades (Magister, Magus) still have some "universal mind" activity. This must cease, and it will - after the Magister has understood and the Magus has done the deed.

"The Magus ... How shall he destroy himself?" - Liber B

also

"Liberation is attained not when
there is nothing more to add,
but when there is nothing left
to take away." - Book of Life

I have jotted all this down, at high speed because it's late and there are still the 1001 things to do or get rid of. It illustrates one of my favorite points: The Initiatory Path is a Giant Cosmic Take-Away Program. Yeah, lots of things and ideas get "taken away," sometimes unpleasantly. It is easier if one just lets them go with grace.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

I don't see the Angel as “abandoning us” per se

Right. The Angel goes away on a vacation. Actually, I see it withdrawing at a certain point, only to entertain a re-uniting - as soon as the Adepts can rid him/her self of his/her "accidents" (a Perdurabo term). THEN the two unite.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Is Frater R- Ignant, perchance?

"The names of women members, as well as non-dues paying solo aspirants, are never revealed." Would you like a copy of the entire chapter, plus the conclusions? That way you may be able to penetrate the silly rules and answer your question.

 


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apuleius
(@apuleius)
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 33
 

I'm not a member of OTO myself, but sometimes I don't understand all the hate they get. Sometimes I do, but in a very broad context, I can understand most of their policies. I see what they try to do basically as Pauline Christianity, and in fact I see many parallelisms between what the two Hymenaeus have done, and what St Paul did himself. Now many people despise St Paul for many reasons, but the fact is that without him, the history of Christianity that we know today, with all the good and the bad, would have not been possible. So yes, from a certain point of view there are many controversial policies in OTO, but they follow a certain logic that many people don't seem to realize. For example, I can see in that stuff about the Tunis Comment, a certain intention to adapt religion to modernity, avoiding the conventional dogmatism of the monolithic religions of the past. Is it dogmatic yet? Well yes, but in an "adapted to the modern times" kind of way, so to speak. And this is only an example that may or may be not adequate enough, because I think that the current organization try to look more into the future, to be "vanguardist" in a certain way. To me, regarding all this, some Crowley's lines about the grade of Magus and that stuff about "speaking the truth but spreading falsehood" (I'm paraphrasing here) come to mind often. In fact I think that the "Supernal part" of Crowley, so to speak, was well aware of this and of what it implied, and would had approved the policies of the current day Order in general lines. But of course I guess I'm in the minority here.


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