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The airtight arguments of Jerry Cornelius?: Review of "The Cult Of Aleister Crowley"

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Patriarch156
(@patriarch156)
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@kidneyhawk, as I have pointed out my reason for leaving active participation was personal and unrelated to the O.T.O. I also pointed out that Paul knows my reason since I wrote him a PM about it at the time.

As for why there is a dearth of O.T.O. members here, I would not know. They overflow other social media platforms, including those that are downright hostile towards the O.T.O. My suggestion is that most people are on Facebook and that they find it easier to engage there rather than here. The reason certainly is not any official or for that matter unofficial policy from the O.T.O. that I am aware of.

Either way, thank you for your kind welcome back greeting. It is however unlikely that I will participate much since those personal reasons are still valid, and is also the reason why I stay away from occult and thelemic groups/forums on Facebook.

My involvement in LAShTAL.com is largely due to an academic and historical interest in the figure Crowley, his life, works, and ideas, so I check out the news section regularly and will even still check out the forums from time to time (like the fantastic post about the Germer house). For that reason I still recommend LAShTAL.com to anyone I speak with who have an interest in those subjects as it truly is a gold-mine for someone interested in subjects such as that.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posted by: @patriarch156

As for why there is a dearth of O.T.O. members here, I would not know.

They (the members) have been told, "Do not go to LAShTAL." That paraphrased quote may be too direct. I think the term "Social Media" was used, not simply "LAShTAL."

Posted by: @patriarch156

They overflow other social media platforms, including those that are downright hostile towards the O.T.O.

I have not noted this, but then I don't go to Facebook or other digital gentile hangouts, so ... maybe it was/is just "LAShTAL."

It is not a matter of HATE from our end. We are happy and willing to talk to the Tongolites, but then we wondered where the went. After that, we found out they had been warned away. LOVE is attractive, HATE is repulsive. The HATE seems to have been generated from "their" side.

Posted by: @patriarch156

The reason certainly is not any official or for that matter unofficial policy from the O.T.O. that I am aware of.

"Certainly?" I'm not the one to cough up the quoted proof, because I don't play in this/that league. I have only seen other people here quote the policy. Maybe somebody has more direct knowledge and can share it?

 


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3690
Topic starter  
Posted by: @patriarch156

They overflow other social media platforms, including those that are downright hostile towards the O.T.O.

Besides Facebook, which you mention, and which i don't do, can you name these other platforms full of (c)OTO posters? They are certainly there at the Thelema subbreddit, but i would hardly describe that as "hostile territory", as seems to be run by (c)OTO-ites.

And i know of no other current Thelema-oriented "social media platforms" or active sites besides this place and that subreddit, and would be very interested to know of more.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Posts: 2939
 

@ignant666

Hi Iggers,

 

All I can say at this point in time is thanks for starting this thread.

I look forward to hopefully having time to contribute.

 

My copy came a while ago but my book stack is huge and my work load is atrocious.

 

Why does everyone want things right before a holiday?

 

Just chill, maenner.


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @patriarch156

They overflow other social media platforms, including those that are downright hostile towards the O.T.O.

Besides Facebook, which you mention, and which i don't do, can you name these other platforms full of (c)OTO posters? They are certainly there at the Thelema subbreddit, but i would hardly describe that as "hostile territory", as seems to be run by (c)OTO-ites.

And i know of no other current Thelema-oriented "social media platforms" or active sites besides this place and that subreddit, and would be very interested to know of more.

When I first went online for Thelemic content in the mid-90ies I was appalled. All these yahoo groups were full of hate and slander. I guess that was what held me from joining any of these orders. Then it all calmed down a little and 18 years ago I joined Lashtal. What a relief, a revelation (I still hope one day there will be that owners-of-Jephthah-convention). Many (non-corporeal) frienships were made. But ignant666, if you are really interested you should join Facebook for a short while (it's for old people anyways these days) just for a little peek and you will be shocked. It is kind of interesting (like a car crash). This again all started with (who would have guessed) Trump (in my opinion). I can easily understand why grown men get tired of this. But I sincerely hope Herr Koenig will pick up my little visual hint and document these years.

trumpoto

 Love=Law

Lutz


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Joined: 16 years ago
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Topic starter  

Those M-16s are either clipless and devoid of ammo (unthinkable!), or have stubby little 10-round magazines that no self-respecting MAGA would have.

Or us armed Commies either.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posted by: @christibrany

My copy came a while ago but my book stack is huge and my work load is atrocious.

"Busy people are happy people."

 


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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@ignant666 Dang, I didn't know better at the time - or even now.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
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Posted by: @apuleius

I'm not a member of OTO myself, but sometimes I don't understand all the hate they get.

Could you give an example of this "hate" please?


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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@shiva 

Whoever wrote that is full of merde

 

What did I miss about m16s? I called mine first Old Dirty Bastard. He was from like Vietnam times or something.


 


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posted by: @christibrany

@Shiva - Whoever wrote that is full of merde

 

What did I miss about m16s? I called mine first Old Dirty Bastard. He was from like Vietnam times or something.

Whoever wrote what? The thread is moving fast and I am lost, but once was found. Amazing Grace and Me.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 18 years ago
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Posted by: @shiva

Whoever wrote what?

I think Chris was referring to the quote "busy people are happy people".


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posted by: @michael-staley

I think Chris was referring to the quote "busy people are happy people".

Oh, I see. Well, I wrote it, but I didn't invent it.

Mrs. Wayne, my boss, now R.I.P., used to utter that phrase whenever anybody complained about the workload. I detected the merde in her motivation, and I would always reply ...

"No. They are exhausted.

 


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Tiger
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What i got out of the book is that Cornelius got put through the ringer by Breeze
and an Ordeal and an initiation into an " Intelligence of Probation " of some sorts ensued
from which he passed; and jettisoned himself into the Abyss.

I wonder why the subsntiation of The Harry Smith A∴A∴ as the only true one is so hard to find ?

But really in order to begin making an assesmemt one would need to read and reread
The Cult of Aliester Crowley by J Edward Cornelius
The Equinox Volume V No4 by Marcelo Motta
How to make your own McOTO by Peter Koenig
Initiation into the Aeon of the Child by J Daniel Gunther
In The Center of the Fire by James Wasserman
One Truth and One Spirit by Kieth Ready
Karl Germer Selected Letters Edited by David Shoemaker, Andrew Ferral, & Stefan Voss
and visit
The Ordo Templi Orientis Phenomenon
https://www.parareligion.ch/

And it would still leave one spinning.


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Damien
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Posted by: @tiger

But really in order to begin making an assesmemt one would need to read and reread

An assessment of what?


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Tiger
(@tiger)
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Of Thelemic Lineages and Initiates.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posted by: @tiger

Harry Smith

I never heard of this fellow.

Posted by: @tiger

[An Assessment] Of Thelemic Lineages and Initiates.

It's a good thing the solo, non-dues-paying aspirants can just assess their own work, their own lineage, and not be troubled with the snake-pit of contention. The psychologists ( and children everywhere) have a name for it. It's called King of the Hill.

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @tiger

Harry Smith

I never heard of this fellow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Everett_Smith

Ignant is probably familiar as Smith was involved with the OTO in NY.


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Damien
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Posted by: @shiva

It's a good thing the solo, non-dues-paying aspirants can just assess their own work, their own lineage, and not be troubled with the snake-pit of contention.

If a magician takes an initiation in a temple and no one is there to sign an official document, did it really happen? 


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katrice
(@katrice)
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @tiger

Harry Smith

I never heard of this fellow. 

Nor have I. Now I have a new rabbit hole to fall in to!


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posted by: @damien

If a magician takes an initiation in a temple and no one is there to sign an official document, did it really happen? 

Yes. Almost all true, major initiations take place in a crisis situation where the candidate is alone. Almost all ceremonial initiations, where the surviving candidate gets a parchment with a sig and a seal, are not true (inner) initiations.

Sometimes the two (inner/outer) can be synchronized. This would be an omen that the candidate actually did his/her/work, and reasonable proof that the initiator(s) are working with a valid, hot lineage (and not some dud string of pretenders who have no spark).

Posted by: @katrice

or have I.

I just read the Wiki article ...

"Smith said he had become acquainted with the Lummi Indians through his mother's teaching work and claimed to have participated in shamanic initiation at a young age. He recorded Lummi songs and rituals using homemade equipment and notation of his own devising, and had an important collection of Native American religious objects.

The Tarot was another of Smith's interests. A set of "irregularly-shaped Tarot cards" he designed was apparently used for the degree certificates for a branch of the Ordo Templi Orientis founded by occult "magus" Aleister Crowley. In the late 1940s in California Smith is said to have worked with Charles Stansfeld Jones, the one-time acolyte of Ipissimus Crowley,[citation needed]. Smith would later study under Jones's "trusted student", Albert Handel in New York.

Smith frequented the Samuel Weiser Antiquarian Bookstore, a used book store on New York's "Book Row" that specialized in works on comparative religion, hermeticism, and the occult. The store's publishing house, Weiser Books, used Smith's designs for its paperback edition of Aleister Crowley's Holy Books of Thelema.[35]

Sanders recounts that Smith was the key advisor for Allen Ginsberg and The Fugs 's effort to levitate The Pentagon. "In the fall of 1967"

----------------------------

Goodness, this fellow was a contemporary of me and my contemporaries, but I never heard of him. Then there's this mysterious Albert Handel, who is the missing link in the Legend of Harry Smith.

image

 


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