Welcome to the thread of counter-initiation academy. While there are some JC books made for entertainment purposes, I adore his Essay's series of books, those are the only contemporary Thelema books worth reading.
Manson - Here is the wild card. Did he exhibit this in-person presence? I dunno, maybe someone else has read reports on his real-time persona?
He did. I've crossed paths with his "organized" followers and their bhakti-like admiration for him was obvious. I am unsure if it is a tenet of his followers but I think I have seen at least one reference to him as the second coming of christ.
If anyone needs help kicking heroin I hope you get the help you need. Crowley warned us to not live like him for good reason.
For the rest of the people under discussion I am ecstatic I choose to not associate with any of them. 🙂
I don't know what to make of Gunther but I can presume he is even lamer then Scott Adams and that is an amazing accomplishment. I don't remember what turned me off to Initiation in the Aeon of the Child if I recall correctly it had nothing to do with initiation or Thelema. I can say however that The Angel and The Abyss is word salad. On one page it can contain references to five ancient cultures, three languages, a large collection of photos from the Internet for filler, quotations, then it remembers sometimes the topic is Crowley, so sprinkle in some Blavatsky, things Crowley wrote, Carl Jung (always mention Carl Jung so your audience thinks they are smart because they know who that is), tarot, and the uber mysterious Hebrew letters held so sacred to gentile heretics, and yet I am unable to discover what he is trying to say about the Angel and the Abyss because it is completely muddled by references to times, places, and cultures that have nothing to do with the topics he is discussing. I am grateful that they paid some poor bastard to include an index and 15 pages of works consulted. Whoever you are I am deeply impressed and you deserve a very special place in hell.
There are in total 24 pages of what I must conclude is Guntherism (starting on page 328). I will also call this Neo-Nazarethism. For no better reason than it sounds like neo-nazism. From the content of PTSD cases visible in this thread it is clear that most of the people in this thread believes the neonastys are more omnipresent, more organized, and more in the government from top to bottom than out of it than the witches ruining Puritans' crop yields and without your eternal vigilance about the kind of symbols and art people like and with whom people have sex with, who knows what kind of world we would live in today!
So anyway neo-nazarethism extols the virtues of the quest of union with the HGA to be the magnum opus of those like himself devoted to "serve mankind" as a mahayana cross to bear.
Let it be known that while once the sacrifice to redeem the sins of mankind was once served by offering crops, children, and beasts, then in the Age of Osiris this need was served by Christ (don't ask me how I am just paraphrasing), now in the Age of Gunther, the sacrifice to redeem the sins of mankind consists of taking the time to copy and paste pictures from the internet and sprinkle in strange spooky looking non-English languages for 300 pages.
When this has overwhelmed any psychic resistance of the reader Guntherism provides a mailing address in London and an email address (!) to take part in the funny robe club they proudly display in technicolor that they swear is nothing like the ku klux klan even if all the people mentioned in his books and in this thread looks like they would fit right in.
So the reader of his book must presume that the raison d'etre for the prior 5,000 years or so of world building in the proceeding pages is in fact Guntherism. (Nota bene: see what I did there? Do you see how smart and educated I am to express myself with funny looking non English words? Maybe I am a disciple of Guntherism after all hahaha.)
Oh on page 300 (and yeah I am certain there is more than retarded reason for the make up of chapters page length) I enjoyed the shallow discussion of Plato, neoplatonism, and Iamblichus. But I find it bizarre to the extreme that this is the end of the book and not the beginning but then again I am not a Neo-Nazarethist. I recall that "Shiva X." in the introduction however calls him a great teacher so apparently the Masters wisdom knows no bounds.
While I take an exception to promulgating the clearly un-Thelemic and positively evil spirits contained in Kenneth Grants works (I still refuse to even open The Ninth Arch, it is that good at scaring me off so bravo!), at least he offers the reader creative spiritual experiences you could not find on wikipedia. Greetings and salutations to all my Lashtal Fans! I wish you all an interesting and fulfilling new year! XCIII Valete!
In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.
I have seen at least one reference to him as the second coming of christ.
Yeah. I saw that one (or more?) a very long time ago ... so it must be true, right? I mean it must be true that at least one follower thought he/she was in the presence of "Christ."
(always mention Carl Jung so your audience thinks they are smart because they know who that is)
I have always followed this rule, but not really always. That is, I often mention Jung specifically in reference to the word equation, Anima = Angel. But then, I really hesitate to push the Angel term ... when there is no Angel. Oh, some folks may actually see or sense an Angel. Perdurabo described a "sense" of a man behind him - Hamid, overshadowed by Aiwass? Or an Angel overshadowing it all? And nobody I know has seen this HGA as an Angel. Anybody, please, if you have seen and talked to an Angelic HGA, please speak (write) up.
I am not speaking of angels in general. I have observed them in the company of other persons, so we can discuss it and later reassure each other that we are not, you know, insane.
But, oh, there is something that is equivalent to the HGA - it just doesn't appear as an Angel, or even a personoid (resembling a person). I have always only seen a Star (it talks).
I am unable to discover what he is trying to say about the Angel and the Abyss because it is completely muddled by references to times, places, and cultures that have nothing to do with the topics he is discussing.
Oh, goodness. Your description here sounds very much like Crowley's description of Edwin Arthwaitism (in reference to Waite's writ).
most of the people in this thread believes the neonastys are more omnipresent
Not me. It is always the case that a small minority control a vast majority of simple, innocent folks like ourselves. Of course, if they get high up, then they have vast agencies at their disposal. I suspect many agents do things just to keep their job. Shinola rolls dwnhill until the gov is tainted to the bottom. But when I go to, say, the Motor Vehicle Dept, I do not seem to be prejudiced against.
But how does a minority overcome a majority? I'm not into political stuff, so I'll just refer anybody to the history books.
now in the Age of Gunther, the sacrifice to redeem the sins of mankind consists of taking the time to copy and paste pictures from the internet and sprinkle in strange spooky looking non-English languages for 300 pages.
Oh, my. This does sound Waitish. I haven't read either of the books (Aeon or A+A), so it's interesting to get a review. One of these must surely be his Thesis. In your opininion, which of his two books would you say most qualifies as an exposition of how the world works and what he's doing to change it?
Do you see how smart and educated I am to express myself with funny looking non English words?
The Guidelines state that posts must be in English! But you were making a point about non-English, and it was only a couple of words (Notta Bean?), so I think you won't even get a warning.
Raison d'être looks way funnier with the little roof on the e...
@shiva Oh yeah I totally did not think about the Arthur Waite criticism (it must be decades ago when I read that) but yes it is the same school of writing!
The bar is set so low for the dissident spiritual marketplace from the domain of banal materialism today that like most literature all one needs to is put a monkey in front of a typewriter and type way for a fresh perspective. And the sad bits are that I really enjoy all those human cultural civilizations he surveys and he makes references to a rather large selection of obscure alchemy and Latin that is in the milieu that I have chosen to make a part of my life.
"In your opinion, which of his two books would you say most qualifies as an exposition of how the world works and what he's doing to change it?"
Perhaps only that his exposition on their policy to speak on false claimants to the head of the OTO and AA is "Silence." There is no attempt to change it only to seize the orbit of narrative not unlike fallacious claims of "we are the true Israelites." He does intend his followers to reach the MT grade and claims that they must all become Scarlet Women. I am pretty sure this involves bleeding from one or another orifice.
I would need to find the first book and look through it but my library is in flux at the moment and I don't feel like bothering to find it. I believe he gave more `Tarotic` justification for the New Aeon in the first one and that the goal of initiation is to transform the psyche to a childlike state of wonder in the New Aeon in the first book and that it included the Sethian mythos which I think is a polite way of saying get buggered by the master.
I can listen to an hour of Alan Watts and achieve a thoughtful hubris-free review of any topic whatsoever and while I may not agree with everything he says at least I can say I learned something which is pretty good for a guy who has been dead for almost 50 years. I am not sure I can say that about anything wrt Guntherism.
(It has been a recent observation of mine that over the last twenty years or so the number adult dual language learners is near zero percent of the general population and the Otherness of non-English languages (which this book wonderfully illustrates) and which paradoxically seems to be amplifying as the rest of the world is gaining English fluency.)
In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.
I believe he gave more `Tarotic` justification for the New Aeon in the first one and that the goal of initiation is to transform the psyche to a childlike state of wonder in the New Aeon in the first book and that it included the Sethian mythos which I think is a polite way of saying get buggered by the master.
Oh. Well, look, I think some folks were given the (temporal) Keys to the Kingdom (by a judge). back in '86. Then they printed books and sued people. Now they are quiet (no books, limited legalism).
Then, arising from the pile, we see signs and hear signals that the herald The (new) New World Teacher. Immediately, we suspect "Jump-Claiming" and we demand to see the certification. That is, if a list, like the AC Timeline Dom was distributing, showing practices and grades earned ... Where is this List? Where is the Autobiography - or better yet, the independent biography/
Since, according to your review, the book(s) do not stand forth with simple self-verification, and since they do not contain practical information, such as how-to-do-it practices, I really don't feel (not know) at this time that the essays can be accepted an imprimatured as a 7=4 Thesis.
Also, since the author is telling us about the importance of the Angel, I would hope to see some words writ down that somehow convey the idea that the author actually had a chat with his own Angel. Is there such a thing to be found in these tomes?
... which is pretty good for a guy who has been dead for almost 50 years.
Uh, oh. I sat in Watts' lecture in Vancouver, British Columbia in 1971. He was actually alive. Now I have to go figure, Where am I?
@shiva It is as they used to say, "wishy washy." He says it is important and you should do it. He denies the reader any explanation on how to do it. I believe that is what all the cute robes and the mailing address is for. It is little wonder why most enlightenment seekers seek greener pastures from the east.
In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.
He denies the reader any explanation on how to do it.
Aha! Talk-talk without fuel for sale.
New book by Jerry Cornelius coming out
probably the one many have been waiting for (i ordered as usual for my ever growing book hoardings…).
(excuse me if links etc are not allowed in the forum and moderator please edit as you please).
quoted from his Facebook pages:
“
YES! I'm done writing my next book which is titled THE SECRET SEXUAL TEACHINGS OF ALEISTER CROWLEY, The Beast 666. … For the record, Grady Louis McMurtry (1918–1985) aka Frater Hymenaeus Alpha 777 Xth Degree OTO learned sex magick directly from Aleister Crowley, who acknowledged in his diary on December 22nd, 1944 that he taught Grady “more solid instruction in IX than I ever gave before to any one!” I was Grady’s personal student and I was lucky enough to be given personal insights into these teachings since the late 1970s, seeing that I was an Upper Degree in both OTO and A⸫A⸫. However, I’ve kept quiet about these “secrets” for the last forty-five years, but thanks to recent developments in the world of magick, I figured it is important to write this information down before it becomes lost in the quagmire of a modern “believe-whatever-you-want” world. This book contains what I learned about the sexual secrets found with the OTO, and I guarantee it’s NOTHING like what you’d expect or what other books are saying. Some of you might argue that it is blasphemous to reveal these mysteries, but Crowley has stated that one of the reforms which he introduced to the world “was the abolition of all obligations of secrecy.” Adding, “They were never useful except as temptations to people to break them. The secret knowledge has quite adequate warders. I have learnt that I have only to tell the truth about almost anything to be set down at once as a liar. It is far better to throw dust in the eyes of the animals whose faces are turned to the ground, by casual frankness. If you have a secret, it is always dangerous to let people suspect that you have something to hide.” If you’ve liked the clarity with which I’ve written on other Crowleyan subjects, this book will definitely shock you!
This book is in the printers right now, and we are accepting pre-orders. …This book is 6x9, signed by the author, hardback, 265 pages. Only 220 copies. *$65.00 per copy ($70.92 within Arizona due to sales tax) *plus* postage & handling of $13 U.S., $34.50 international.* To reserve your copy with PayPal, use address pjch381@gmail.com and be sure to include your full mailing address and email address in your PayPal notes. For another method, email Cornelius93@aol.com. For those preferring to pay by credit card, go to the page for this book on our Cornelius Publications website:
i ordered as usual for my ever growing book hoardings…
I certainly hope you'll share a review with us!
This sound like a potentially interesting book. Perhaps it reveals the "Actual, REAL, TRUE, IX Secret":
"Sex Magick", undertaken to produce "material-plane" results, never, ever, worked for Crowley, even once, according to many decades of his diaries, which record ZERO actual results.
Perhaps the "IX Secret" will work better or you than it did for him, or perhaps not?
Fucking is good fun either way; but how useful is self-delusion to your current project?
This sound like a potentially interesting book. Perhaps it reveals the "Actual, REAL, TRUE, IX Secret":
The marketing lingo suggests there is some "secret" thing, of AC's, that is not known by anybody but Grady McM (deceased) and Jerry C. Obviously, there must have been leakages from McM to his staff of "provisional" IX*s (The "provision" was that they would not found lodges or initiate candidates until after he died).
I have wonders. I wonder if McM actually took the IX* rite, or whether it was another case of, "Here's your papers" (a field promotion), in which case ... [conclusion left hanging]. Although the author held the VIII*, I wonder why he never got the IXth ... all those other folks got it.
Anyway, this is high-level stuff as Jerry usually does a bang-up job. If he announces the TRUE deal is "shocking," it may be better than a sneeze.
I wonder if I will be shocked?
Fucking is good fun either way; but how useful is self-delusion to your current project?
[Waiting]
My own researches for years from
the usual books and all the ‘papers’, Emblems down..available diaries and screeds of biographies have lead me to several conclusions.
so it will be interesting to read anyway considering Cornelius other books of which i think i have read all except for a few red flames.
i have several guesses of what the IXth secret is beyond the usual ‘fk and make a wish’ or ‘Opuses +o for money and/or health’ as per Crowleys diaries when he more concerned with those than in his earlier days when he had ample of both.
Probably less to do with physical sex than the diaries, making his amirita pills with his secret sauce and arte de magica lead one to believe. i suspect as it has Yoga as a prerequisite (i can recall some Crowley quote) it is more about combining the opposites within oneself (microcosm) and then the greater opposites whether male/female hadit/nuit, matter/space etc (macrocosm) into one whole and annihilation etc etc.
The two recent Achad books also go into some detail on having Children and importance of programming the Word etc. but i am too lazy to dig them out.
but we will see. I guess it depends where one hooks into he tree of life as well as utilizing the usual iHVH + sh formula through Binah VIIIth, Chokmah (IXth) and into Kether oneness and beyond to the ain soph aur etc etc
and the more recent Hellfire release (after waiting eons and much emailing)
as for provisional IXth. Well that was originally for an official Caliph or acting OHO and to be dropped after according to Cornelius books and also the Election transcript. But it seems they all lid hands on one another…
as for Grady, Crowley himself wrote that he gave more personal instruction on the IXth than he had done to anyone before.
Meh. I submitted then tried to edit and add more (i was worried that i might lose the text on mobile) submitted but ran out of time - annnd gone
anyway dinner time. Might try again later. Or not. I dont have much invested in offering my opinion as its just another voice in the digital wilderness to be forgotten about tomorrow
"There is a single main definition of the object of all magical Ritual. It is the uniting of the Microcosm with the Macrocosm. The Supreme and Complete Ritual is therefore the Invocation of the Holy Guardian Angel; or, in the language of Mysticism, Union with God." Magick in Theory and Practice - Chapter 1. - Aleister Crowley.
I am sure that AC would say that the "IX Secrets" work....Disembodied intelligences made communications, many books were written, notoriety was gained, more sex magic partners manifested, illness disappeared opportunely, money was not feared, initiations of the highest order were conferred, prophecies confirmed...
Now regarding Mr. Cornelius's book the blurb sent out by JD Holmes, bookseller, is interesting as it includes a reference to Crowley looking to abolish secrecy!
THE SECRET SEXUAL TEACHINGS OF ALEISTER CROWLEY J. Edward Cornelius Aleister Crowley acknowledges in his diary entry for December 22nd, 1944, that he gave Grady Louis McMurtry [Frater Hymenaeus Alpha 777, Xth Degree OTO] “more solid instruction in IX than I ever gave before to anyone!” This book relates those instructions and secrets as passed to Mr. Cornelius who was fortunate enough to be Grady’s personal student, and much of the content has not been made public prior to this volume. Mr. Cornelius has a strong belief that this material should be disclosed, but rejects the criticism he will receive on the basis of Crowley's own words when referring to one of the reforms he would make: “was the abolition of all obligations of secrecy.” Adding, “They were never useful, except as temptations to people to break them. The secret knowledge has quite adequate warders. I have learnt that I have only to tell the truth about almost anything to be set down at once as a liar. It is far better to throw dust in the eyes of the animals whose faces are turned to the ground, by casual frankness. If you have a secret, it is always dangerous to let people suspect that you have something to hide.” One other comment that seems pertinent to this is from Mr. Cornelius, "This book contains what I learned about the sexual secrets found within the OTO, and I guarantee it’s nothing like what you’d expect, or what other books are saying."
Now that the cat is out of the bag, it should be noted that only 220 copies have been published, fair enough, and thus I suppose fair enough, relative to the reestablished scarcity of the publication, that a review that might make such secrets open to a wider audience might well leak through...under the reasoning, so said, that AC wanted to abolish secrets...
Of course the issue with secrets, is that being told a secret, or say the answer to a riddle, can only serve to hurt those who should take the effort to find the answers for themselves...
Now if we look at the cover of the book, now no longer up at Holmes, as the book is probably already sold out, (time for the mass paperback or not) we find a pen and ink drawing of an erect penis whose shaft and glans are bisected rectangular objects, (ouch!) that makes the whole diagram, strewn with a few Hebrew letters, like Shin at the balls, to be tinged with a bit of sad-masochistic OCD, to which the rectangular objects, of different size, suggests that the penis has been crucified, and could be symbolic of the "Horus Toy"...
I am sure that AC would say that the "IX Secrets" work...
You are on pretty safe ground here, because AC either said so or implied that it was so - in several places. He therefore has a claim before the Scientific-Religious-Aims Tribunal, which noble and august body has replied, "Gimme Proof!"
the rectangular objects, of different size ...
Different sizes? This is not proof.
AC either said so or implied that it was so
On the other hand, review of AC's very frequent IX and XI workings as recorded in his diaries, as compared to the (lack of ) results, would most likely immediately convince anyone not a terminal "Crowleyanity" devotee that the "OTO secret", however, um, potent it may in fact be, was definitely a miserable failure for AC personally.
I first reached this conclusion reading Churton's exhaustive (and exhausting) Aleister Crowley In America, which notes every IX and XI working recorded in the diaries, and reading on, we note that his "workings" didn't "work".
Of course the issue with secrets, is that being told a secret, or say the answer to a riddle, can only serve to hurt those who should take the effort to find the answers for themselves...
Are not the true Mysteries experiential, though, and therefore not really conveyable by mere words?
On the other hand, review of AC's very frequent IX and XI workings ...
Oh, that stuff. That's part of the proof department - the Tribunal is waiting for some positive proof, because you can't prove a negative.
Are not the true Mysteries experiential, though, and therefore not really conveyable by mere words?
Ah, you cite the difference between "real" secrets and "artificial" secrets. The IX* is an artificial secret, so it had to be protected with Oaths of Secrecy. This worked pretty well for about 70-80 years. But, in gov and Arcania, there are always leaks.
So Emblems, which is where BafometR explains all the "secrets," was obtained by a cowan or a disgruntled member (who did not pay the dues in advance) and found its way to the www (= 666). These are the artificial ones that can be talked and writ about, and even [oh no] performed!
The "true" secret would be handling the chariot properly in order to get some results. Of course, all results, except the arrow-ascension maneuver, tend towards Black Magic. So where does that leave anybody?
The "true" secrets involve things like astral projection (what is the secret of getting out?), doing a proper divination, talking to the Angel, etc. Interestingly, sometimes a teacher can cause these things to happen in a student. This is better than writing or talking.
Sex secrets sell: The hardback edition of the book has sold out, but a soft cover version is planned for the summer....according to JD Holmes Bookseller....
Sex secrets sell
Yes, don't they? The populists, and (most likely) the esotericists can't wait for something this hot - even if it will no longer be (is?) SECRET after the first review copy is (was) read.
I wonder if the final ultimate supreme secret of the Toy-TM and the IX* are the same general concept? So far, from everything I've seen - they are.
[waiting]
Yes your wondering about the Toy-TM secret and the now claimed IX* 'Secret' is an interesting one...
Perhaps in our waiting...all manner of IX claims will be made...
The book will probably have advanced understanding of what has been emphasized before in the Cornelius writings upon what he was taught by McMurtry, that being the significance of ON....which certainly be an appropriate word, for getting it on...but since the blurb for the book assured us that something novel would be revealed, one wonders relative to the cover illustration whether some appendage was being put on...and it did not look like a rubber...the question is: Is Cornelius capable of a joke or is he just another played upon by AC?
Well that illustration probably has nothing to do with the book ( ) other than being on the cover, but maybe it has metaphoric significance to the content of the book, which I am sure while have content, though some might not be content....
Anyways just as the Horus Toy seems to be a metaphor, emblems are emblematic...So before the G-spot was name a G-spot, or that was the name of the secret name all along as it probably was named by Mason's relative to some secrets, that are indeed non-verbal @katrice
Perhaps in our waiting...all manner of IX claims will be made...
I am, personally and in-person, a IX* initiate of The Sanctuary of the Gnosis. I did not receive a "battlefield promotion," but stood for the actual ceremony (as opposed to being handed a sheaf of papers). That should be a sufficient claim to allow me to make comments ... once the claimed mystery secret is made publick.
the blurb for the book assured us that something novel would be revealed, one wonders ...
Yeah. Infinite possibilities. I have my own info that I have never seen in print, but I'll not be writing a book about it in my old age - like Cornelius and Culling.
... the cover, but maybe it has metaphoric significance to the content ...
Well, it should ... in terms of (host) marketing and keeping a holistic whole to the work. I find it irritating when a cover matches nothing inside - it stands as a form of false advertising.
o before the G-spot was name[d] ...
... it was called Ren 1, an acupoint, by the ancient heathen hard-working Chinese people. Among other things, it is the emergency point for drowning.
it was called Ren 1, an acupoint, by the ancient heathen hard-working Chinese people. Among other things, it is the emergency point for drowning.
Perhaps I am not a cunning enough linguist to discern what this means. Can you please elaborate?
And gee willickers that book sold fast. A curiosity item. His Ouija board book ( the new one) was quite good.
Perhaps I am not a cunning enough linguist to discern what this means. Can you please elaborate?
It will be revealed in the Appendix (#3) in my forthcoming book, next April the Oneth. In the meantine, search for "Ren 1," then click "Images" at the top of the results page. You will get the picture(s). But most (blush) pics are censored. Try this ...
http://www.acupuncture.com/Ren-1
It is located midway between the genitalia and the anus, in both men and women. It does not depend on "self-identification" of gender - it is an equal-opportunity point.
It is located midway between the genitalia and the anus, in both men and women. It does not depend on "self-identification" of gender - it is an equal-opportunity point.
Is this also the hui yin point?
Is this also the hui yin point?
I am not familiar with the term "Hui." This is the YIN source point of the body. The Ren channel (aka, the conception vessel) then runs up the front (anterior) midline and enters the mouth.
To add context, perspective, and balance, the YANG source point is located at the midpoint between the tip of the coccyx (tail-bone) and the anus. 1" insertion - take care, can injure the rectum if angled improperly. It runs up the back (posterior) spine, over the top of the head, to enter the mouth at the upper lip. Du 1 is used for manic psychosis, so keep it in mind for use in flip-outs.
http://www.acupuncture.com/du1
Both of these allow direct access too the chakras. However, acupuncture is regulatory - so if I were to stick a needle in your (anyone's) butt, they would not necessarily have a kundalini experience.
Is this also the hui yin point?
I am not familiar with the term "Hui." This is the YIN source point of the body. The Ren channel (aka, the conception vessel) then runs up the front (anterior) midline and enters the mouth.
Further searching confirms that they are indeed the same, I just knew it by another name. Thank you for the further explanation.
I would love to hear an alternate conclusion one might draw. A speculation, even. Something like “Well, maybe all dues-paying members of the Duplexity just aren't interested in any of the topics being discussed on the official site of the Aleister Crowley Society...for years...when they used to do so on a daily basis...”
There is no alternative conclusion. I have had several friends who have been expelled from cOTO for association with non-duplex orgs. Even just saying non-duplex makes me sick. Not nearly as sick as what's happened to the OTO and AA.
I have had several friends who have been expelled from cOTO for association with non-duplex orgs
What were their stories?
Even just saying non-duplex makes me sick
It sounds like a religious dogma meant to contain and constrain as opposed to a teaching leading to liberation.
Not nearly as sick as what's happened to the OTO and AA
I've no horse in those races. I appreciate Crowley the most when I engage with his writing apart from any groups or "Crowleyites." I was just remaking earlier today how much I love his prose-and what a vehicle it is for the genuine mystical insights he had!
... expelled from cOTO for association with non-duplex orgs.
It is good to see you survived.
Non-association is pretty rough stuff. Felons on parole are usually required to non-associate with other felons or prior co-conspirators - but then they're on a leash that can lead back to prison ... not affiliates in The Brotherhood of Man.
It has been documented that no Ordo Templi initiate will be allow to pass into the higher grades who is also a member of some filthy, non-duplexed A.'.A.'. lineage. The word exclusive takes on an even narrower definition.
I've no horse in those races.
I had my only horse in both those races ... before any race began. I managed to get out, as recommended in 777-23, fourteen years before the races began. I cite begun in 1986, as a new Shire-reeve was appointed. Well, there was some sort of racing in '70 with McM.
What a relief to be out of that [insert your own invective].
What were their stories?
These are both anecdotal as I have not spoken to either individual in at least a decade, but in both circumstances they were expelled over association with an "unapproved" order. I don't know how else to put that. It sounds ridiculous. The person closest to me (we took our I* together at Aiwass lodge) wasn't suspended first. He was up for his IV*, it got postponed, and then he got an expulsion letter in the mail. The reason was his membership in a certain lineage of the AA.
The other person was told they needed to leave the other order (I think that was Temple of Thelema) or they would be expelled. He refused and was expelled.
I've no horse in those races.
Nor I. I stopped participating when I became aware of all of this. I started meeting the supposedly initiated and wise and just couldn't keep going. The exception to this was Phyllis Seckler.
It is good to see you survived.
I don't know if this was sarcasm but, by the time it happened, it only helped me feel confident about having already left.
It has been documented that no Ordo Templi initiate will be allow to pass into the higher grades who is also a member of some filthy, non-duplexed A.'.A.'. lineage.
Documented and proven!
Any comments and or reviews on Mr. Cornelius's IX Secrets book?
I've ordered it. Review to come (to pun intended).
I don't know if this was sarcasm ...
Frater Shiva shoots another rocket over the border, because it was too vague for even smart folks to get it right. Here are the words that were supposed to be understood by reading between the lines.
0. You determined that LAStAL was a worthy Site.
1. You started posting here, regularly.
2. A Pandemic was inserted into everyday life, everywhere, as the first phase of the great global initiation was initiated. The candidate is bound and hoodwinked.
3. A lot of regular posters stopped posting, including yourself.
4. A few people who went away, and were wondered about, came back, including yourself. I'm happy you survived.
One can take the above Arabic numbers and substitute the Roman version (Min, I, II, III IV). Then compare your journey to the Ordo Templi degrees, which are keyword listed as 0=Attraction, i=Birth, II=Life, III= Death, IV=World beyond Death.
I thought the rag was sold out...
Nice to know you quit the OTO (tm) when they expelled your friends...that shows character on your part!
I thought the rag was sold out...
Nice to know you quit the OTO (tm) when they expelled your friends...that shows character on your part!
I know for a fact they have a couple copies on hand.
I don't want to appear too noble: I had already distanced myself from everything by that time. It just convinced me not to go back (which likely would not have happened regardless).
I had already distanced myself from everything by that time.
Several people have contacted me, over the decades, who were in a "distanced" position. The story is always the same: Favoritism combined with Prohibition against Consorting with the Enemy. Them versus us, in its boldest form, because everybody else is Them - the Enemy.
I believe the word exclusivity may apply. You see? They are just a reflection of the global elite.
It just convinced me not to go back
This is a living example of the obscure, occult, hidden, secret principle known as the straw that broke the camel's back, and after that, there's no going back.
This is a living example of the obscure, occult, hidden, secret principle known as the straw that broke the camel's back, and after that, there's no going back.
Not to make it all about me, but my original reasons for stepping away and then disappearing had far more to do with the people who were at the top of the organizations I was exposed to. In retrospect this could have been too much about expectation meeting reality (as is often the case when we are young). To put it plainly, I met a lot of "higher ups" and people that had supposedly "risen well above Tiphareth," and their character/behavior/attitudes etc were incredibly far from my expectations.
The organizational infighting (and everything under discussion here) that followed reified those impressions.
I was going to say something about the sort of people the occult attracts but that may ultimately be an aside (without going into a wallop of a diatribe), but there is something to say about those who advertise as being Adepts who are, by all perceptible means, base. There is something else to say about an organization wherein only the base are allowed to rule. I also understand this can come off as elitist, but I think it may only seem so for lack of elaboration.
Again (and anecdotally), Phyllis is the exception. I can imagine only one reaction from her to all of it, and it would be a curt and heart felt statement that it is all a stupid distraction from the work.
And that is how I am able to judge my own degree of Adepthood, because it is a grand distraction, but I find it endlessly entertaining to watch. 😎
Not to make it all about me
No, this is all impersonal. I wrote a whole book about this stuff, although my departure only took up a few paragraphs. There is a common theme running through my tale, your story, and a lot of other folks' testimonies.
I met a lot of "higher ups" and people that had supposedly "risen well above Tiphareth," and their character/behavior/attitudes etc were incredibly far from my expectations.
Uh-huh.
organizational infighting
it is all a stupid distraction from the work
it is a grand distraction
Three uh-huhs.
AC had something to say about this. He described the Outer Oreder as a circus, with trumpets, drums, and elephants. Yet, he said, the aspirant must go through this stuff.
At the other side of the tent, where the exit is, is where the tales of clashing, dictating, conflict, and separation occur. Anybody who gets handed a diploma and a handshake is one out of a hundred (in any overall survey of occult group bondage).
It's like a real birth - one has to struggle a bit, and the exit usually gets drawn tighter. Okay, so some of us had to draw the dagger and demonstrate how an episiotomy is performed.
My "pity not the fallen" mode is applicable for those who escape ... but blame the spiritual path for their bumps, not realizing that, yes, tyrants often become gurus - it's an easy charade. And I'm always supportive of anybody who gets away ... but keeps going!
I met a lot of "higher ups" and people that had supposedly "risen well above Tiphareth," and their character/behavior/attitudes etc were incredibly far from my expectations.
I've seen too much of the most vile trolling done by people who add things like 8=3 after their name.
there is something to say about those who advertise as being Adepts who are, by all perceptible means, base.
The real ones don't need to advertise
I also understand this can come off as elitist, but I think it may only seem so for lack of elaboration.
There is such a thing as demonstrable merit. I don't think it's elitist to think less of someone who's claims of status are far lower than what their actions show.
My "pity not the fallen" mode is applicable for those who escape ... but blame the spiritual path for their bumps
Paths and the organizations that claim to represent them are two different things. I wish more people understood that.
There is such a thing as demonstrable merit. I don't think it's elitist to think less of someone who's claims of status are far lower than what their actions show.
Yeah. But I have to be on the lookout for my own shortcomings in such judgement.
Paths and the organizations that claim to represent them are two different things. I wish more people understood that.
If someone doesn't understand, then they were never on any "real" Path in the first place. Which is why "pity not the fallen" applies.
But I have to be on the lookout for my own shortcomings in such judgement.
Exactly. It is very easy to decide, based on pride, or maybe money, too. This is why it's good to check one's decision with a couple other reference points that are hopefully clairvoyant and seeing true. In the matter under discussion, I have mirrored your description ... but then I might be unworthy, carrying an agenda, stirring the pot against my betters.
So we should find at least one more person, whose been in then out, to tell us what they think this is all about.