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The Bardo - Tibetan Influence and 'Mountain Masters' on Thelema and AC  

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christibrany
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09/05/2020 11:28 pm  

I am sorry for this - being that I am nowadays but a poor scholar ,a shadow amongst poor players who flits and struts etc. 

 

I am thinking more and more how AC's work transcends 'basic' Western Esoterica, and reaches into Hinduism, Buddhism, and of course their Tantric aspects.  

 

image

Also we have Enochiana and the like.

 

That leaves one White Elephant in the room which is Tibetan mysticism and magick, which is not quite Buddhist when you delve into it.

image

Does anyone want to give me a heads-up as to how Dzogchen, the earliest Zen (?) and the 'black' practises of the Bon Po tie into Thelema?

 

For example, we have the LAM

image

We have the 'White Brotherhood' of Blavatsky who live on the mountain tops, whether they be physical, etheric, or astral, and come and go at Will in all those forms.

 

We have the Tibetan link with the dreaded Nazis, and the Tibetan link with modern 'hippies' and Naropa institutes.

 

I cannot help but feel there is a link in all of this. 

 

Can anyone elucidate?

 

 


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djedi
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09/05/2020 11:51 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

We have the 'White Brotherhood' of Blavatsky who live on the mountain tops, whether they be physical, etheric, or astral, and come and go at Will in all those forms.

I guess if you're looking for 'connections' as direct transmissions and not flighty intellectual comparisons, I'm afraid I'll have to give you both and parrot the old equation of the White Brotherhood with the G.'.D.'. Secret Chiefs. I think Guido von List identified them with Einherjar, if you really care about the Nazi stuff -- but I know some people get sensitive over that particular branch of the occult and would rather have it be especially occulted, so I won't think too hard over it.


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gravunity
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10/05/2020 12:17 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

I am sorry for this - being that I am nowadays but a poor scholar ,a shadow amongst poor players who flits and struts etc. 

I am thinking more and more how AC's work transcends 'basic' Western Esoterica, and reaches into Hinduism, Buddhism, and of course their Tantric aspects.  

.

.

.

I cannot help but feel there is a link in all of this. 

Can anyone elucidate?

If you're interested in the intersection of AC/early thelema with Hinduism, Buddhism and eastern praxis in general, you'd do a lot worse than give Churton's Aleister Crowley In India a go. I've got no lineage/previous/literary ax to grind on this personally - but I must have read 90% of the available AC biographies and for me, this was a proper fascinating read on eastern religious correlatives in Thelema you might not have seen before.

OK, you have to deal with the frequent HB name-drops and the knowing references to the (fabled) "Unexpurgated Confessions" - but in the main, I came away from it with a different take on AC from the sense I got from the Equinox Volume I. For comparative discourse, the chapter on Sabhapaty's system was especially good. With Churton's traditional gnostic underpinnings thrown in for good measure of course.

re: Bardos, check Phil Dick in the Exegesis describing how he extended the Tibetan Book Of The Dead structure when writing Ubik - and by crikey, 2-3-74 the gnostic anamnesis kicked off, just how he'd written it. Doh! And if that ain't magic(k)...

In a similar vein, if you want some lockdown reading - I also really enjoyed Three Dangerous Magi - Osho, Gurdjieff, Crowley which as usual sent me off to re-read Voice Of The Silence and wonder exactly what HPB 8=3 was upto. By the time I got to Alexandra David-Neal and Tibetan mahatmas, it's was all over. Too comlplicated.

Oh by the way, the link? That would be you 🙂

best,

93'z et al,

G.


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christibrany
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10/05/2020 12:17 am  

@djedi

 

That is a link, and I appreciate your input, not going to freak out over it lol.

 

Anyone else?

 

This seems to be a very deep link to Thelema that is oft overlooked and I think that Kyle
@kydneyhawk and

@Shiva should have much to say. 

 

 


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christibrany
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10/05/2020 12:19 am  

@gravunity

 

Thank you sir, that is some fat for me to chew. 

 

I love the Dick 😉

 

I am looking for some deep Tibetan gnosis here and I think that Blavatsky had a 'handle' on it even if twas mostly liquid. 

 

I appreciate the links, the new ones for me are

Posted by: @gravunity

Sabhapaty's system

 


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gravunity
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10/05/2020 12:51 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

@gravunity

Thank you sir, that is some fat for me to chew. 

I love the Dick 😉

You're welcome. And I too love the Dick:-)

BUT... It's even weirder man... when you find out that Bill Burroughs did the same schtick in Western Lands (i.e. copy the structure and then add Escape Route 61 at the end). And Mailer did the same routine in Ancient Evenings as well. AND I secretly suspect it's the same "mimic and extend" routine with LRH's OT VIII / between-lives area, the Raëlian scriptures, RAW's Illuminatus Trilogy and a wide bunch of Gen P's TOPY stuff. PKD was convinced it was some ultimate gnostic hackery that he'd "written himself" into the posthumous immortality sephira, much as I also suspect AC himself did with Libri AL, OZ and the Gnostic Mass. Ouch. Normal service will be resumed shortly.

-- "That's the trouble with all these links and connections. After so many one to the next, eventually you turn into Alex Jones." 🙂 😎 

93'z et al,

best,

G.


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Shiva
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10/05/2020 6:37 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

That leaves one White Elephant in the room which is Tibetan mysticism and magick, which is not quite Buddhist when you delve into it.

Oh, it's very Buddhist. Buddhism overlaid upon Bon shamanism. Most Buddha strains do not do ceremonies. The Tibetans take lots of ceremony with their Buddhism.

When one gets to the core ("delving in" as you say), one comes to Dzogchen. I am, most of these hours alloted for today, just finishing the cover of the Dzogchen book. I have made a few, simple correspondence to our One Star curriculum.

So I can't hang around and chat much, because the free pdf will be coming along shortly.

Posted by: @gravunity

If you're interested in the intersection of AC/early thelema with Hinduism, Buddhism and eastern praxis in general ...

He already addressed those and dismissed them in favor of Tibetan Buddhism.

He might have, but I don't recall AC addressing anything about Tibet.

Posted by: @christibrany

This seems to be a very deep link to Thelema

Thelema has no "link" to Tibet or Dzogchen. AC hints at those states, but not those traditions. Pure Dzogchen is the ninth of nine vehicles. The first eight are all fabricated. The ninth is equal to 10=1. Thelema (Will) is attributed to Chokmah. Thelema gets left behind in the ninth vehicle, which is the state of Rigpa.

Posted by: @christibrany

I am looking for some deep Tibetan gnosis

Rigpa = Gnosis.

Rigpa = The Natural State = Adi Yoga.

 

 


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djedi
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10/05/2020 7:20 am  
Posted by: @shiva

He might have, but I don't recall AC addressing anything about Tibet.

His commentary on H.P.B.'s The Voice of the Silence comes to mind, though it isn't necessarily his ideas on Tibet so much as Blavatsky's fantasy Tibet.

I know Allan Bennett wrote something on Tibet, but it's probably lost or at least very hard to come by.

Posted by: @shiva

Thelema gets left behind in the ninth vehicle, which is the state of Rigpa.

Left behind or subsumed into? Or more probably, arranged into a concordance beyond our earthly ability to speculate.

 


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Shiva
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10/05/2020 8:15 am  
Posted by: @djedi

Left behind or subsumed into? Or more probably, arranged into a concordance beyond our earthly ability to speculate.

Rigpa is a state that has no concepts. If it has color, form, name, policy, concept, it's not Rigpa. However, your point is well taken. It also cannot be described (except in general terms) and there is no practice for attaining it. It arises of its own accord.

Crowley (O.M.) gives us the best description in One Star in Sight (10=1), and then he hints around for the rest of his life about attaining this, but manages to never say so in plain lingo

It's noteworthy to realize that all the grades have some state associated with them, and when anyone takes a grade, they are introduced to that state. Afterwards, they find they are human dorks again, so they (we) work hard to regain that state. It's a game of touch-and-come-back-again.

The "task" set forth for the Ipsissimus in One Star, is for the benefit of the human vehicle, in order to maintain that state (this is the 2nd of 3 stages of Dzogchen: To maintain the natural state).

Of course, everyone falls off the wagon from time to time. Perhaps it's more correct to say that from time to time, we are lucky to climb back on that wagon ... until we fall off again and start doing mental things. This falling and climbing back only comes to an end with the Ain states, known to the Transhimalayan folks as."the Adi," and to the Buddhists as Nirvana.

By the way, HPB never made it to Tibet (as claimed by her or someone). She made it to Kashmir, now the garden spot of culture clash, and all her "Masters" were real people, most of whom where capitalists, but members of The Golden temple. Most of them had middle or last names spelled S-i-n-g-h. This is a cultural name for Sikhs.

They are all dead now, but people channel them all the time, and some claim they materialized before them. This, of course, is in the category of the Aiwass legend, which means its subject to endless debate.

Since no Master, and no Aiwass, or any other suprahuman or ascended human has ever appeared to me, I am in no position to take the side of immortal beins ... although I am full of explanations of how such things can take place.

Anyway, I have managed to get deflected by multiple threads from completing the full hard cover, but I'll give a preview of the 8.5 x 11" front cover ...

Dzog front HARD

 


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Behemoth
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10/05/2020 9:00 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

We have the 'White Brotherhood' of Blavatsky who live on the mountain tops, whether they be physical, etheric, or astral, and come and go at Will in all those forms.

 

We have the Tibetan link with the dreaded Nazis, and the Tibetan link with modern 'hippies' and Naropa institutes.

 

I cannot help but feel there is a link in all of this. 

 

Can anyone elucidate?

 

 

I once made a longer post on this subject. It was in a thread on Reddit few years ago. The thread seems to have been deleted since. I could have copy-pasted it here in full.

 

I currently do not have the time to write a longer post (I am extremely interested in this subject myself), but I would recommend these books that explore this connection and may shed light on it:

 

René Guénon - Theosophy: History of a Pseudo-Religion

 

This is a criticism of the Theosophical Society, but sheds interesting light and hints on the true origin of Blavatsky's Tibetan Masters and the connection between the Seven Adepts of McGregor Mathers and certain historical organizations. It also explores the connection how The Seven Adepts also have a "revelationary" character in a sense that they can be linked to Seven Churches of Asia from John's Revelation, who Guénon explores in this book. It also ties closely with the origins of Golden Dawn. 

 

René Guénon - The King of the World [Roi du monde]

This remarkable book grew out of a conference headed by René Guénon, the sinologist René Grousset, and the neo-Thomist Jacques Maritain on questions raised by Ferdinand Ossendowski's thrilling account in his Men, Beast and Gods of an escape through Central Asia, during which he foils enemies and encounters shamans and Mongolian lamas, whose marvels he describes. The book caused a great sensation, especially the closing chapters, where Ossendowski recounts legends allegedly entrusted to him concerning the 'King of the World' and his subterranean kingdom Agarttha. The present book, one of Guénon's most controversial, was written in response to this conference and develops the theme of the King of the World from the point of view of traditional metaphysics.

 

One of the more controversial novels I would recommend on this subject:

image

Les sept têtes du dragon vert - la guerre des cerveaux

 

Sadly, this book has never been translated to English, as far as I know.

It's title in English is "The seven heads of the Green Dragon - the War of the Brains".

Even though this book is largely fiction (written by a pseudonym who had connections to french intelligence service) it sheds very interesting information. It even has a chapter on mescaline.

This book was published in 1933. It deals with secret services as well as the even more obscure haze of the occult societies after world war 1, as some believe it also carries a secret message.

 

Yrjö von Grönhagen's diary is also a must read. He lived together with Karl Maria Wiligut aka Himmler's "Rasputin" alias Ara-Hari-Weisthor-Wiligôt.

Grönhagen also talks of the Green Dragon. His diary is from 1948, just after the second world war ended and he ceased to work for the SS Ahnenerbe institute. He also speculates/talks of the Green Dragon (it is either an order, or a person).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Dragon_(order)
Green Dragon was a mystical Tibetan or Japanese occult Order first mentioned at the beginning of the 20th century. The organization was mainly popularized through the book The Morning of the Magicians.
It is claimed that the Order collaborated with Theosophical Society and Thule Society and influenced well-known secular figures in Europe as well as in Tibet and Japan. It is claimed that the Nazis discovered during the capture of Berlin in World War II were wearing Tibetan (or Kalmyk) garb.

 

It is extremely hard to separate fact from fiction when it comes to this subject, the book "Morning of the Magicians" gives an account that can hardly be taken seriously.

 

The society probably did exist. I would also recommend a critical book called ARKTOS: The Polar Myth in Science, Symbolism & Nazi Survival that explores these myths and their connection to the East:

A scholarly treatment of catastrophes, ancient myths and Nazi Occult beliefs. Explored are the many tales of an ancient race said to have lived in the Arctic regions, such as Thule and Hyperborea. Progressing onward, the book looks at modern polar legends: including the survival of Hitler, German bases in Antarctica, UFOs, the hollow earth, and the hidden kingdoms of Agartha and Shambhala. Chapters include: Prologue in Hyperborea; The Golden Age; The Imperishable Sacred Land; The Northern Lights; The Arctic Homeland; The Aryan Myth; The Thule Society; The Black Order; The Hidden Lands; Agartha and the Polaires; Shambhala; The Hole at the Pole; Antarctica; Arcadia Regained

 

 

Behold now Behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.


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Tiger
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10/05/2020 5:32 pm  

The Tibetan Buddha is not necessarily the same as the Historical Buddha.
The Tibetan Buddha (s) are aspects of The Primordial Nature beyond time, including The Historical Buddha which was an emanation in the realm of apparitional forms; cutting through interpenetrating levels of being and perception, occupying the same space; involved with the psycho interactive drama, linked to the concentrative frame of assemblage points .

The Griffin guards the realm beyond the North Wind among the heights of the Stifling Air. Beyond the range of the Katun Mountains, the Pamir Mountains, and the Trans-Himalayan ranges; multifarious centers were seeded. Non human resonances were set up at the intersection where the mind strays; and the awakening realization of perception on arrival recurs in terrestrial occupation.

Deliberately disguised in inscrutable language, taken as enigma, arousing the eidetic fire, consuming all karmic inclination; Votaries of the Green Dargon shape shift forms using pre mosaic sentient symbols and emblems, astronomical in understandings, tentatively linked to a star system.

The color of the serpent mandala in the Bardo can at times appear as Green.

image

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Shiva
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10/05/2020 6:36 pm  
Posted by: @behemoth

I currently do not have the time to write a longer post

Well, you did a pretty good job with your "shorter" post.

Posted by: @tiger

The Tibetan Buddha is not necessarily the same as the Historical Buddha.

There are many Buddhas. The "historical" Buddha was Siddhartha, who became Gautama Buddha, and a great big religion has been left in his wake.

The present Dalai Lama is a Dzogchen Master. Many in his "court" who a re "conservative" Buddhist, decry, bemoan, and grumble about his inclusion of Bon sorcery in his teachings.  They, of course, are crystallized. They have not been introduced to Rigpa, so they act out their exclusive dramas.

 


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Behemoth
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10/05/2020 7:16 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

Well, you did a pretty good job with your "shorter" post

 

Posted by: @tiger

The color of the serpent mandala in the Bardo can at times appear as Green.

 

I honestly think even a book series would not be enough. Guénon explores the connection between Seven Seals of Tibetan Bardo Thödol with the Seven Seals of Revelation among other things and offers quite good reasoning behind certain Rosicrucian (initiatic) connection between East & West.

 

The Green Dragon mentioned in my previous post also having reference to the doctrine of Stooping Dragon of Golden Dawn. (And considering that in the Golden Dawn system: Daath is 'the Eighth Head of the Stooping Dragon).

 

I think Djedi has posted some Bardonian Atlantean mage speculation here on lashtal.com before, but the Green Dragon does have a larger, perhaps some occult war aspect to it too and those (atlantean) black mages that perished in the Great Flood:

For the Black Brothers lift not up their heads thus far into the Holy Chokmah, for they were all drowned in the great flood, which is Binah - Liber 418

 

I personally can recommend Les sept têtes du dragon vert - la guerre des cerveaux ("The seven heads of the Green Dragon - the War of the Brains") if you find a translation or can read some froggy french. It makes a good sequel (or prequel?) to Crowley's Moonchild and explores some Simon Iffian detective themes (and some mescaline too).

 

Behold now Behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.


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dom
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10/05/2020 8:25 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

 

We have the 'White Brotherhood' of Blavatsky who live on the mountain tops, whether they be physical, etheric, or astral, and come and go at Will in all those forms.

 

 

 

Do we?  That's very wacky Chris.

I always thought that Blavatsky was a nut espousing ludicrous pseudo-science.   Right up Himmler's (or any other lazy thinker's) street.    


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gravunity
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10/05/2020 8:42 pm  
Posted by: @djedi
Posted by: @shiva

He might have, but I don't recall AC addressing anything about Tibet.

His commentary on H.P.B.'s The Voice of the Silence comes to mind, though it isn't necessarily his ideas on Tibet so much as Blavatsky's fantasy Tibet.

I know Allan Bennett wrote something on Tibet, but it's probably lost or at least very hard to come by.

Is the LAM mythos technically Tibetan? Something from KG's Cults Of The Shadow?...

G.


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Tiger
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10/05/2020 9:41 pm  

@dom
How many times a day does your mind wander ? And when you assiduously capture it; was the nature of the breath you took the same as the previous ? If so what was doing the stalking ? And what was the nature of the stalked ?


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Shiva
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10/05/2020 10:07 pm  
Posted by: @behemoth

I honestly think even a book series would not be enough. Guénon explores the connection between Seven Seals of Tibetan Bardo Thödol with the Seven Seals of Revelation among other things

Yes, this is probably so ... if one wanted to exercise their mind ... while ignoring the core teaching/state.

Posted by: @dom

Do we?  That's very wacky Chris.

Chris, oh Christ, never, under any circumstances, reveal knowledge outside the Thelemic doctrine, which if interpreted by street-level psychoanalysts, would result in almost everyone being committed to the mental slammer.

Diagnoses include" wacky, whaky, nut, nut-job, wack-job, nuts. Etc.

What this lower-level reply means ...

Dom disagrees with you,
or your stupid post.
You are dismissed,
and your ass is toast.

Posted by: @dom

I always thought that Blavatsky was a nut espousing ludicrous pseudo-science.   Right up Himmler's (or any other lazy thinker's) street.

Nut. The official diagnosis. Not to be confused with Nuit or Nwt.

Posted by: @gravunity

Is the LAM mythos technically Tibetan?

Crowlet assigned the name Lam and associated it with the root for lama. Some strange letters are at the top of the Lam drawing (when someone has not removed them). They look I can't tell if they're Tibetan, Enochian, or Galactic Standard.

Progress in Tibetan initiation is by Empowerment (Wang - Initiation), not by reading books. I have received a series of Empowerments, and I am pleased to report that there are things that simply are not covered in the Thelemic paradigm. I am currently assessing the two streams for specific correspondences ... or lack of them.

 


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dom
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10/05/2020 10:39 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

 

Chris, oh Christ, never, under any circumstances, reveal knowledge outside the Thelemic doctrine, which if interpreted by street-level psychoanalysts, would result in almost everyone being committed to the mental slammer.

Diagnoses include" wacky, whaky, nut, nut-job, wack-job, nuts. Etc.

What this lower-level reply means ...

 

 

Shiva there's a difference between you and Blavatsky.  You wrote that 'a Star' appeared to you in your room and guided you, that's fine but you also have the capacity to step back and analyse your beliefs objectively.


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dom
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10/05/2020 10:42 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

 

Chris, oh Christ, never, under any circumstances, reveal knowledge outside the Thelemic doctrine, which if interpreted by street-level psychoanalysts, would result in almost everyone being committed to the mental slammer.

Diagnoses include" wacky, whaky, nut, nut-job, wack-job, nuts. Etc.

What this lower-level reply means ...

 

 

Shiva there's a difference between you and Blavatsky.  You wrote that 'a Star' appeared to you in your room and guided you, that's fine but you also have the capacity to step back and analyse your beliefs objectively.

 

Posted by: @tiger

@dom
How many times a day does your mind wander ? And when you assiduously capture it; was the nature of the breath you took the same as the previous ? If so what was doing the stalking ? And what was the nature of the stalked ?

Tiger, you as someone who incessantly vacillates between beat-poet chaotic ramblings and then sudden expected bouts of apparent coherence you are in no position to talk about me being flimsy.  


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The HGA of a Duck
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11/05/2020 2:22 am  
Posted by: @shiva

Diagnoses include" wacky, whaky, nut, nut-job, wack-job, nuts. Etc.

Let's not forget "quacky" (you could even add "duck-headed"). 😛

 

Posted by: @shiva

there are things that simply are not covered in the Thelemic paradigm

These boundaries dissolve, I reckon if you looked hard enough you could find a direct path to Dzogchen in Liber AL.


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Shiva
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11/05/2020 7:05 am  
Posted by: @dom

Tiger, you as someone who incessantly vacillates between beat-poet chaotic ramblings and then sudden expected bouts of apparent coherence you are in no position to talk about me being flimsy. 

Tiger, you and I have just been anal-ized and put in our respective places. The psychic-anal-isis is very expensive, you know.

Posted by: @duck

"duck-headed"

Ducky.

Posted by: @duck

These boundaries dissolve, I reckon if you looked hard enough you could find a direct path to Dzogchen in Liber AL.

Why?


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djedi
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11/05/2020 7:56 am  
Posted by: @duck

These boundaries dissolve, I reckon if you looked hard enough you could find a direct path to Dzogchen in Liber AL.

When waters get so muddled, you oughtn't drink. When you look too hard into what words are supposed to mean, the sprachspiel isn't anymore fun to play. It is most apparent in Qabalah, but you can connect anything to anything else when you think hard enough on doing so, and not just at the conceptual level but those lower (like limbo, though, it gets harder the lower you go).

The danger in doing this is that you might start to believe in your own jests, and fall from whatever state allowed you to make the jests in the first place. Take dom's objectivity, for instance. The idea that there is an objective reality with rules predicated on observed facts (or vice-versa, but it doesn't matter), beyond the mind of the individual observing (whose observations taken alone or solipsistically would be considered subjective in this worldview), necessitates not only the assumption that there are other observers, but that there can be some eternal composite of all observations or, employing Occam's razor, a singular and all-knowing observer. Christians call it God. Scientists (who got their start in those fine mediaeval Christian schools) don't call it anything, hoping no one will notice.

Their trouble is that they've fallen for their own jests, and see how they suffer for it.

The real horror is that even all of that, what I've just typed, is a jest.

So watch your step, stop playing our game as soon as it stops being fun, and you just might get to be like @shiva and his rigpa some day, with the special privilege of following Elvis when he leaves the building.


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christibrany
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11/05/2020 4:05 pm  

@behemoth

 

That book sounds fascinating, thank you.

I read French comics and magazines so maybe I can slog through that. 

 

@gravunity

 

Posted by: @gravunity

Is the LAM mythos technically Tibetan? Something from KG's Cults Of The Shadow?...

Crowley of course attributed 'him' to relate partly to Blavatskys 'Voice of the Silence' and wrote in Tibetan characters on the picture.

 

Kenneth Grant later on in the Typhonian Trilogies has this to say of LAM in Outer Gateways:

 

...The roof of the world, the frozen plateaux of the Tibetan uplands, which Roerich celebrates in his paintings, was the scene some eleven to twelve thousand years ago, of the landing on earth of the Dropas. The visitation occurred on the borders of Tibet about the time of the final Atlantean cataclysm for which Plato (Timaeus) quotes the date 9000 B.C. The Chinese cite legends which describe:

short, slender, yellow men who ‘came from the clouds’ and who because of their extreme ugliness — they had extraordinarily large heads and spindly bodies — were at first shunned, then finally massacred by ‘men riding swift horses’.

 

But not all the Dropas fell before the onslaught of the riders. Many escaped with their leader, Lam, and established a base in the hidden realm of Lêng, to which H.P.Lovecraft refers as the ‘abominable plateau’. As Crowley depicted Lam circa 1915 we may conclude either that the entity yet exists on the material plane, or that it appeared to Crowley as the model for one of the ‘Dead Souls’ which formed the content of his Exhibition of paintings and drawings held in Greenwich Village in 1919.

 

The Dropas infused into the Tibetan Mysteries the current peculiar to their terrestrial agents, now known as Drukpas. They have been abhorred, not only by reason of their magick, which is concerned with opening the gates for the Returners, but because the non-terrestrial nature of these adepts of an alien sorcery is dimly sensed by humans who have, occasionally, gained access to their ceremonies.

 

Lam is the High Lama of the Cult of Zain which combines the Ain (Ayin), the Eye of Space, and the Winged or Flying Eye of Horus, with the Ζ or snake-power. The number of the Dropas is 655, which is the number of the Merti, ‘Eyes of Maat’. 415, another number of the Dropas is also that of ABRAH DBR, ‘the Voice of the Chief Seer’, of ‘the Holy One’ (HQDVSh), and of ‘Drakonis’, the type of the Ophidian or Draconian Current. The hissings associated with their non-human rites are reminiscent of the Cult of the Black Stone, Ixaxaar, to which Machen alludes in connection with the formula of Protoplas- mic Reversion.  Such cults are of incalculable antiquity. Their female members are known to their in- itiates by curious physiological characteristics peculiar to the descendants of the Dropas. These peculiari- ties qualify them for service in the temples of Lêng. The rites involved (and still involve) the disc, wheel or chakra, and the black stone, a congealed kala, associated with the cult of Ixaxaar mentioned by Soli- nus.


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ignant666
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11/05/2020 4:35 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

Their female members are known to their in- itiates by curious physiological characteristics peculiar to the descendants of the Dropas.

!!!!

Can anyone let us know what "curious physiological characteristics" are "peculiar to the [female] descendants of the Dropas" that "qualify them for service in the temples of Lêng"?

Citing Lovecraft for the proposition that this "Leng/Lêng" is a real place is a bit worrisome- in The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath, Leng exists only in Carter's dream. And of course Lovecraft invented every bit of "occult wisdom" in his stories, and never in his life had any contact with any initiates, orders, or secret teachings.

This is a place-name that, according to the Daemon Google, does not occur anywhere on the internet or in any scanned books or other works, outside the works of Lovecraft and Grant, and the world of Lovecraft fandom.

Where does Grant get the accent in "Lêng"? In Kadath, there is no accent.


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christibrany
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11/05/2020 4:39 pm  

@ignant666

 

It is my understanding that Leng in Grant's work is used as a kind of 'astral/metaphysical' 'skin' or label for Tibet and the Himalayan highlands.    Or more specifically, it is the hidden energetic source of power that resides within/inside the Malkuthian aspects of Tibet/Himalayas.   Much like Shambala could be said to be more a State of being than a State of a country. 

 

In regards to physiology, I may be mis-remembering, but I believe the word you are looking for is retromingent.   


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ignant666
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11/05/2020 4:52 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

retromingent

Thank you so much for the prompt, and somewhat enlightening, reply! And for introducing a new word to me that i am certain i will use often.

Why, exactly, would it be that "urinating backwards" would "qualify them for service in the temples of Lêng"?

How exactly would actual human women accomplish this feat without really drastic anatomical peculiarities that might well preclude having any "descendants" to work in temple-service?


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christibrany
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11/05/2020 5:06 pm  

@ignant666

 

Not sure... 🙂  

 

More apropos to the Tibetan influence on Thelema topic, we know that LAM is the Way, and Lama is Tibetan for 'none above'  .   

Do you think that as AC thought, there are 'Hidden Masters' in the Himalayas directing spiritual evolution  ?  If at all, do you think they are physical , or merely spirutal/astral/other dimensional entities? 

 

As such, perhaps these 'priestesses' of Leng, could be viewed as archetypal symbols for atavistic behaviour? 


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christibrany
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11/05/2020 8:03 pm  

@djedi

 

Guido Von Liszt is somewhat interesting but I don't get the sense he had any real innate knowledge or spiritual experience, it was a lot of posing. But I think he did do some interesting work RE Runes. 

Seven Years in Tibet, popularised with Brad Pitt, hmm. 


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The HGA of a Duck
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11/05/2020 8:13 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

Why?

Why even talk about Dzogchen at all on a Crowley forum then? 😛 

Posted by: @djedi

you just might get to be like @shiva and his rigpa some day

God, I hope not. 😊 


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Shiva
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11/05/2020 9:53 pm  
Posted by: @duck

Why even talk about Dzogchen at all on a Crowley forum then?

I was hoping you would take the bait.

Why bother doing something that I have already done? In various metaphors and proses, Al tells us 0=2 and 2=0. 0=2 is the formula of Magick.

2=0 is the mystical formula of Dzogchen.

(as well as dhyana, Tao, Zen, Ain, Advaita, Chan, but at least Dzogchen's principles are well-put in simple language when translated into English. Probably other languages as well.

So, I go away to finish a cover and stitch a pdf together, and what happens? A thread enters the Tuat/Bardo of Hallucinations and little yellow men are hiding in Tibet while urinating backwards.

Please allow me to cut through all of this in my next post ...

To be confounded Continued ...

 


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Tiger
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11/05/2020 10:53 pm  

Being Compassion
Love under Will
do what thou wilt


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Tiger
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11/05/2020 11:44 pm  

For Loves sake
Action


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dom
 dom
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12/05/2020 12:02 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

 

Do you think that as AC thought, there are 'Hidden Masters' in the Himalayas directing spiritual evolution  ?  If at all, do you think they are physical , or merely spirutal/astral/other dimensional entities? 

Someday perhaps.....but not yetty.


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Tiger
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12/05/2020 12:37 am  

@christibrany
Do you think that as AC thought, there are 'Hidden Masters' in the Himalayas directing spiritual evolution ? If at all, do you think they are physical , or merely spirutal/astral/other dimensional entities?

Step into the world of the occult;
transmit and transfer consciousness
to a rock, so that it is no longer just a rock;
make it come alive and speak !


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Shiva
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12/05/2020 1:14 am  

Dzogchen
"Great Perfection"

The Dzogchen book is complete and can be purchased at ...

https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/frater-shiva/dzogchen/hardcover/product-qd64jr.html

"Dzogchen, the "Great Perfection," lies at the core of the Tibetan spiritual path. This is a "coffee table" book with full-color illustrations. It's good to have a book like this, just sitting there, so anyone can casually read it from time to time, in order to remember what the goal is." (25 pages - short enough for "the direct path."

If you do not have a coffee table, you may download the free pdf (below).

I did not write this book, except for some comments up front and at the end, plus a few footnotes here and there. I edited it (you may think of me as Hymenaeus Gamma ... but please don't) from the Wikipedia article, plus some imported Buddhist dictionaries, and most of the irritating names/titles/terms have been abrogated in favor of straight English (with a flat, neutral mid-western non-accent), with only the primary Tibetan terms retained.

2=0 and the A.'.A.' are mentioned. So why and because undergo fusion in the name of emptiness.

Here ...

 


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Shiva
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12/05/2020 1:43 am  
Posted by: @dom

Someday perhaps.....but not yetty.

There were 'Openly Available Masters' in the (foothills of the) Himalayas (in Kashmir) directing HPB's and Olcott's evolution expeditions in India. It was all written up by her in Caves and Jungles of Hindustan.

These "mahatmas" were her Sikh mentors and sponsors of her (their) explorations. HPB also explored South America. She got around.

I think they were physical, and the "merely spiritual/astral/other dimensional entities" part is what she "made up," based on the Buddhist concept of the Nirmany+kiaya, or "body of manifestation," which they (being dead or "ascended") can use to manifest.

Alice Bailey "cuts through" the Apis Excrement by saying, "Nirmanikaya is a State," then winds the ball of twine up again by stating that an Adept (8=3 in our book) has no dense form, but he does have an etheric body that he can use to appear in public (by slowing down the frequency of the ethic body). Get it?

Unfortunately, I have never witnessed such a thing, although I wish I could do it, maybe I'm doing it now and have been for the past eight years, so I'm not competent to say this is the Truth ... but I will say, "It is the Legend."

Let us remember that AC said HPB was an 8=3, and she fulfilled the role of John the Baptist in respect to the coming of The Master Therion!

Posted by: @tiger

it is no longer just a rock;
make it come alive and speak !

*Blockhead!

Brickbrain!

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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12/05/2020 3:43 am  
Posted by: @shiva

I was hoping you would take the bait.

Ah, so you can be a bit of a cheeky chap now and again.

 

Posted by: @shiva

2=0 is the mystical formula of Dzogchen

I guess that works too, I was thinking Advaita which literally means "not two". The numbers make it more nerdy (autistic advaita). As you might have noticed, Dzogchen is basically the same thing as Advaita, just using different terms.

 

Thanks for the pdf, I will read it soon. Is that Medicine Buddha on the cover? I like him.


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Shiva
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12/05/2020 6:51 am  
Posted by: @duck

so you can be a bit of a cheeky chap now and again.

You have no idea.

Posted by: @duck

As you might have noticed, Dzogchen is basically the same thing as Advaita, just using different terms.

Why, I believe I wrote that very word, twice, in two places, within the past day or so.

Dzogchen, Taoism, Chan, Zen, Advaita, Aikido, Adi Yoga. Meet the Seven Secret Chiefs of Emptiness.

image
Posted by: @duck

Is that Medicine Buddha on the cover? I like him.

Yeah. He's dark blue. He is radiating the Rigpa sphere.

 


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dom
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12/05/2020 8:02 am  
@jamiebarter
 
Posted by: @dom
Posted by: @christibrany

 

Do you think that as AC thought, there are 'Hidden Masters' in the Himalayas directing spiritual evolution  ?  If at all, do you think they are physical , or merely spirutal/astral/other dimensional entities? 

Someday perhaps.....but not yetty.

Come on Jamie you're missing the puns. 


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Tiger
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12/05/2020 1:54 pm  

An ashlar might transmit a potency into the inner slumber who can’t stave off sleep, yet devoured by the little death, beyond comprehension; to awaken . Vitruvian forms of firmitas, utilitas, and venustas, meaning: strength, utility, and beauty become embodied. Avenues of awarenesses, fields of attention into the body of ageless wisdom, merging into the gnosis body; extend out into The Occult Field Waves. Some which reach down to the planes and spheres of the worldling; such as the vital plane, and plane of ideation. where the mysterious woven power can cause effect. The direction of current-flow from an electric cell is from negative to positive outside of the cell, and it is the disintegration of the negative electrode that provides the whole supply of energy. Breaking up matter in order to turn it into converted power. The explosion of the accumulated aggregates in the worlds of form releases force. This occult it ure of super normal appearance and extra normal phenomenon can be used for a bomb or a generator. It all depends on the use of it.

Dzogchen
The Great Perfection
on its way !


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Jamie J Barter
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12/05/2020 1:56 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Someday perhaps.....but not yetty.

Come on Jamie you're missing the puns. 

Oh, is that what that was?  It was "abominable"...

N Joy


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dom
 dom
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12/05/2020 2:27 pm  

@jamiebarter

 

Haharr.


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dom
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12/05/2020 2:31 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
 

 

Let us remember that AC said HPB was an 8=3, and she fulfilled the role of John the Baptist in respect to the coming of The Master Therion!

 

 

Was he joking?


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The HGA of a Duck
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12/05/2020 2:37 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Was he joking?

About the above or about everything?


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christibrany
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12/05/2020 4:43 pm  

@shiva

 

See also of course tales of such Yogis as I believe Paramahamsa Yogananda, and perhaps also Sri Ramakrishna (If I recall) meditating in one spot, and simultaneously appearing in the flesh elsewhere. 

This is even talked about in original ancient (apocryphal) Christianity, and is linked with the concept of Beatitude.  Some Sister or other in Spain appeared in bodily form from afar, to the natives of the Americas, so that when the first Conquistadores and explorers went to the New World they were shocked to discover Christian crosses and rituals being performed already. 


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Shiva
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12/05/2020 6:10 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Was he joking?

Are you aware of how big and influential her "ashram" was? She released the FIRST popular occult/spiritual book(s) *to be printed for the western world. If we are to judge them by their fruits or works, Perhaps you have never read her biography? I liked this one ...

image

Yeah, it's Symonds. He treats HPB better than he did AC.

Was AC joking? I never thought that.

Posted by: @christibrany

See also of course tales of such Yogis as I believe Paramahamsa Yogananda, and perhaps also Sri Ramakrishna ...

And Sai Baba, as well. Of course, these are demonstrations of siddhi, and are pretty much displayed by Indians (from India), although the Tibetans have their own line of tales.

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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12/05/2020 6:49 pm  

It seems all the best ones are declared charlatans buy someone.


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Shiva
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12/05/2020 8:25 pm  
Posted by: @duck

It seems all the best ones are declared charlatans buy someone.

When Jack Schwarz was at the Menninger Foundation getting tested, there was also a popular, well-known yogi (Ramakrishna? I can't remember). Anyway, the yogi displayed 2 distinct siddhis ... neither one of which was what we, or anyone, might expect:

1) He claimed he could stop his heart. Biofeedback showed that, yes, his heartbeat could be stopped at (his) will. But the instruments also showed that he was placing an artificial, internal "block" on his aorta (with interior muscular contraction. So his pulse stopped in the arteries, but his heart kept beating. A pretty good siddhi-trick, eh? But his heart did not stop.

2) The biofeedback sensors were stitched into a white jacket (for easy placement. The yoga was "pure," having no disgusting habits ... so he said. But he was a chain-smoker. In order to hide his burning cigarettes, he would tuck them under the jacket. Guess what? The jacket caught fire (probably super-flammable nylon or similar) and a great emergency was created, with much yogic loss-of-face.

You know how it works. We listen to the stories and if we're smart, we file them in the "maybe" category. On our travels all over the place, seeking holy men and women, a practice I observed for decades by plane and automobile, we then keep our eyes, ears, and other senses open for input. It's a real drag to haul biofeedback doo-dads around, so maybe we'll need to trust our native sensory system. One need not adopt the ridiculous "Skeptical Thelema" of Erwin and Los, which makes everyone a woo-woo clown, but really, "Let him vredit nothing that does not lie within one's own realm of experience.

 


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djedi
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12/05/2020 8:26 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

Guido Von Liszt is somewhat interesting but I don't get the sense he had any real innate knowledge or spiritual experience, it was a lot of posing.

My idea was that Guido von List's work, taken as an entry point for the wider legacy of non-masonic Central European occultism of that time-frame, could help anyone who cared get a firmer grip on a very slippery topic. With absolutely no offence meant to our fine Germanic brothers who use LAShTAL, or really anyone of that cultural extraction, I have found that Germans approach ideas of artistic or magical substance from a very imaginative and obfuscated angle, which can be hard to appreciate unless you throw yourself into it. That's hard enough, but considering the stigma surrounding this branch of occultism and its association with Nazism, it is seldom anyone will even try.

If you want to skip the hard stuff and just find something weird to show your friends, there's a very good book which illustrates my above point titled Magic: History, Theory and Practice by Dr. Ernst Schertel. A heavily annotated copy was found in Adolf Hitler's personal library. There are some prints you can find which include AH's annotations.

Returning to the greater trend of the thread, I've always understood Crowley to have been disdainful of Theosophy and especially Theosophists and the Theosophical Society, which, if I recall, he referred to as the 'Toshosophical Society' amid pages of invective for characters like Alice Bailey and W.B. Yeats. Besides Yeats, I can't think of any G.'.D.'. members who were Theosophists, and I know Mathers thought poorly of them as he did all Orientalists.


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djedi
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12/05/2020 8:44 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

It's a real drag to haul biofeedback doo-dads around, so maybe we'll need to trust our native sensory system.

Kaadi Vidya, one of the siddhis described in the Markandeya Purana. He shall not feel cold even if he sits in the snow-laden mountains, and shall not feel hot even if he sits in the fire.

Spoiler
Thich Quang Duc

 

Thich Quang Duc


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