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Behemoth
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12/05/2020 9:10 pm  
Posted by: @djedi
Posted by: @christibrany

Guido Von Liszt is somewhat interesting but I don't get the sense he had any real innate knowledge or spiritual experience, it was a lot of posing.

My idea was that Guido von List's work, taken as an entry point for the wider legacy of non-masonic Central European occultism of that time-frame, could help anyone who cared get a firmer grip on a very slippery topic. With absolutely no offence meant to our fine Germanic brothers who use LAShTAL, or really anyone of that cultural extraction, I have found that Germans approach ideas of artistic or magical substance from a very imaginative and obfuscated angle, which can be hard to appreciate unless you throw yourself into it. That's hard enough, but considering the stigma surrounding this branch of occultism and its association with Nazism, it is seldom anyone will even try.

If you want to skip the hard stuff and just find something weird to show your friends, there's a very good book which illustrates my above point titled Magic: History, Theory and Practice by Dr. Ernst Schertel. A heavily annotated copy was found in Adolf Hitler's personal library. There are some prints you can find which include AH's annotations.

 

Guido Von Lists's Armanenschaft Runes did, at least indirectly, found their way to the higher ups of the Nazi party in the form of various SS insignia.

 

For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-Ehrenring

 

But these designs are not the same exact runes as Guido Von List's, because these particular designs were made by Karl Maria Wiligut who was one of the "chief" occult advisors to Himmler (Before they found out that Wiligut was ex-Freemason and he had also spent the years 1924 - 1927 in a mental institution for megalomania. He was "honourably" dismissed).

 

If you want to read more how Wiligut developed the runic system of Von List further, there is a book by professor Stephen E. Flowers and Michael Moynihan called The Secret King: The Myth and Reality of Nazi Occultism. 

Wiligut made several modifications to the "runic key" of Guido Von List.

 

Most of the modern "nazi occultists" and some other alt-righters online have also adopted the Black Sun symbol, probably for the aesthetic effect:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sun_(symbol)

The symbol first occurred during Nazi Germany as a design element in a castle at Wewelsburg remodeled and expanded by Heinrich Himmler which he intended to be a center for the SS. The symbol's design consists of twelve radial sig runes, similar to the symbols employed by the SS in their logo

 

This Black Sun, consisting of 12 sig runes, was also the design of Wiligut who was envisioning castle at Wewelsburg as some sort of center of the world with Himmler. (The "black sun" symbol on the floor is not actually black, but dark green)

 

After reading Yrjö Von Grönhagen's diary (he did anthropological work for SS Ahnenerbe), I am not surprised Wiligut had spent quite some time in mental institution. He had some extremely crazy antics going on and seemed to suffer from alcoholism according to Grönhagen.

 

Wiligut also introduced himself to Grönhagen the following way:

I am the last Jarl, Weise (meaning wise) Thor, the descendant of the great God Thor who is called Ara-Hari or Wiligôt. I have founded The Nordic Ring of Wisdom - Der Nordische Ring Des Wissenden - that includes 12 of my greatest disciples. Reichsführer Himmler is one of them. Another one of them is the dear friend of our Führer, Rudolf Hess.

 

Behold now Behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.


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Shiva
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12/05/2020 9:41 pm  

I am perplexed. I suppose there's a forum thread, thread of linkage, but how we got from AC in Tibet (the one place he never visited) to Nazi occultism is presently beyond my capicity to assess.

 


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Tiger
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12/05/2020 10:49 pm  

Appears like a tangential spasm of magics that wove the utangardhs and eigi einhamirs from the wind channel into the thread.


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djedi
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12/05/2020 11:00 pm  
Posted by: @behemoth

Wiligut made several modifications to the "runic key" of Guido Von List.

Just an obscure fun fact about magic Nazis and runes, since we're supposed to care about this sort of thing:

In the late seventies, a southron and physicist named William Luther Pierce, who history remembers as perhaps the most influential American Nazi, founded a religion he called Cosmotheism, the followers of which he called the 'People of the Rune'. In this relatively primitive religion (which I have reviewed and believe to be authentic despite the claims of some special interest groups), the runes are seen as tattvas, the most important of which being the Algiz or, ariosophically, 'man / life' rune. The 'People of the Rune', of which few remain, saw the life rune as symbolizing their most sacred aspect of the universe: evolution. Pierce saw mankind's destiny as being evolving into Nietzschean gottmenschen i.e. Guido von List's Einherjar.

This relates to Tibet/theosophy via the theosophical doctrine of the sixth and seventh root races, yet to come.

This relates to Aleister Crowley via the thelemic doctrine of the Aeon of Horus, when amor fati or life-affirming belief systems (the white school) will overtake death-focused religions like Christianity and Buddhism (the black school).


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The HGA of a Duck
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13/05/2020 12:23 am  
Posted by: @djedi

He shall not feel cold even if he sits in the snow-laden mountains, and shall not feel hot even if he sits in the fire

Yeah, that might be this whole "Rigpa" thing summed up.


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Shiva
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13/05/2020 3:21 am  
Posted by: @djedi

This relates to Tibet/theosophy via the theosophical doctrine of the sixth and seventh root races, yet to come.

I once was lost,
but now I've found,
with little cost,
the long lost sound
of ...

The Sixth Root Race, said to be forming in infancy on the west coast of America ... according to The Tibetan (Alice Bailey's "Aiwass").

He dictated/She wrote that somewhere between 1921 and 1952, I can't remember when.  Although I wasn't born there, I hit the west coast at age 8, and then grew bigger in the sunshine.  So I evolved in the middle of that nest, and sure enough, when I looked back (in 1973) it seemed like California was the occult nursery of the world.

The hippie menace bloomed there and Agape Lodge stood fast 'til it was sold/stolen by elRon. AMORC, BOTA, Manly P Hall, a score of Hollywood bookstores - all hiding first edition Crowley books at ridiculously low prices (usually), Yoga Vedanta, Disneyland, etc and so forth.

Nothing I have described should be seen as exclusive. I know full well that the same thing was going on all over the planet, but California was the mother of invention and new psychic fads. Besides, I was growing up in the middle of this, so I am entitled to both personal and geographical bias. (see: 2nd circuit).

Well, as they say, that was then. And I would say, it started going into decentralization in the 70s and 80s, and it's a whole different place now. In terms of "general vibration" of the higher kind.

"California's population did still increase in 2018 by almost 160,000 people, largely due to the 480,000 people born in the state. But ... migration out of the state has accelerated ..."
https://qz.com/1599150/californias-population-could-start-shrinking-very-soon/

Yeah, people are moving away by the droves. The State manages the world's 6th largest economy, and it's bankrupt.

I have painted the above picture as a backdrop, supported only by Alice Bailey, The Theosophical Society, The Tibetan, and Myself. What backdrop? To the so-called sixth root race.

Now, these root races are so far out of the range of our reckoning that they are like the yugas. The precise terminology goes like this:

4th root race ..... Atlantis (astral emotional)
5th root race .... Aryan    (mental, creative)
   The term Aryan was used long before Adolf inflated it and includes all races now incumbent upon our Terraland.

So our 5th race has 7 phases:

1. India
2. Sumeria
3. Egypt
4. Greece
5. European
6. Nova (the west coast of America and the San Andreas fault)
7. I have no idea what this is called.

We happen to be in the European phase, which is the fifth (mental) plane of the fifth (mental) root race, so we're all pretty smart folks, what with our fancy mentat and its superb functionality ... along with the fact that it obscures the sixth phase.

That 6th phase is Intuition. That's what supposedly got seeded in California, probably with the assistance of legal LSD-25 which spread around the world in its own form of enlightened pandemic.

The full advent of the 6th phase is set around 10,000 years in the future ... if there are any people left. This implies a civilization where (almost) everyone is operating in wuwei intuitional flow. A society of Magisters.

Dzogchen moved up from India to Tibet, so that's where its root tradition come from.

Dzogchen is the name, Rigpa is the state. It is equivalent to gnosis. Crowley was big on gnosis. Gnostic Catholic Church. The Gnostic Mass. The Sanctuary of the Gnosis. All OTO terms.

Personally, I think the Gnosis stuff is better suited for inclusion in the A.'.A.'. descriptives, because OTO doesn't realize, or teach. or transmit, or practice gnosis, except perhaps in symbol and namesake.

Crowley told us the one task of every human was to have a chat with the HGA, which is the central rite of the fifth plane of the fifth subrace or the fifth root race. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the fulcrum point of the universe. And we're all sitting on it right now.

Does it give you a pain in the butt?

 


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dom
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13/05/2020 8:22 am  
Posted by: @shiva

 

The Sixth Root Race, said to be forming in infancy on the west coast of America ... according to The Tibetan (Alice Bailey's "Aiwass").

 

Yeah I buy that......like totally!

 

baywatch

 

............but get the accent right, talk in a constant slow drawl as if you're  stoned sideways on quaaludes doooood.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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13/05/2020 11:33 am  

Like totally
Trippendicular!
Seriously
So
Zlint !


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Shiva
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13/05/2020 5:32 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

The Sixth Root Race, said to be forming in infancy on the west coast of America ... according to The Tibetan (Alice Bailey's "Aiwass").

Dom replies ... Yeah I buy that......like totally!

The only stickler, as I explained, is that it's not the actual sixth root race under allocation to infancy in California, is that it's the sixth sub-race of the fifth root race. The main concept is that it's an infusion of Intuition, and supposedly it's starting to spread now.

Baywatch and The Beach Boys were the symbols of Sunny Southern California for some generation that came after mine, so they are witless nerds who provide entertainment

Posted by: @tiger

Zlint

Right.

 


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dom
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13/05/2020 7:16 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

 

Baywatch and The Beach Boys were the symbols of Sunny Southern California for some generation that came after mine, so they are witless nerds who provide entertainment

 

Beach Boys 'nerdy entertainment'?  I wouldn't say so seeing as Paul McCartney described Brian Wilson as 'a great genius' as does any other epic rock star.  Admittedly they were jacking around on the first album or two.

Me posting The Baywatch pic was an act of irony. 

Alice Bailey's prediction about Hollywood/West Coast and the emergence of it's New Age race was that so impressive seeing as Hollywood was well-known as a centre of innovation (read: open-minded) even in 1915?

 If you were going to predict which area of the U.S.A.  would produce such a phenomenon at that time what were your options?   The Southern Confederate  States?  Hahaha!!  The Mid-West?  Utah?  You wouldn't have had much a choice would you?   Hawaii?  Yeah but it's in the middle of the ocean.  Alaska?  The grime and gang-crime of New York or Chicago?

I'm not saying that the Hollywood-based sun-drenched  'Golden State' near the ocean was a totally mellow civil-zone but it would've been a sensible practical prediction of the area were 'freaks' would proliferate moreso.     

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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14/05/2020 6:09 am  
Posted by: @dom

was that so impressive seeing as Hollywood was well-known as a centre of innovation (read: open-minded) even in 1915?

Impressive? I did not cite the quote in order to impress anyone with Alice Bailey's predictive quality.

I cited those details to impress everyone with the fact that I was there ... and you weren't, and also to cite meaningless data about the sixth sub- or root-race. I happen to agree with that west coast description and it's part of my curriculum vitae.

I believe the exact phrase was/is "The West Coast of America," as far as Bailey sez. I made up all the Hollywood stuff, just like I left out any data on San fran, because I had never been there (back then). Agape Lodge started in British Columbia (Canada is technically a suburb of America, due to "America" being both theNorth and South American continents), and then it moved to ...

Hollywood

And guess where Alice Bailey was sitting on a hill behind the Theosophical Center, when The Tibetan materialized, then asked her to write some books he would dictate (sound familiar?). Where was that hill?

Hollywood

Hollywood is the glamour capital of the world. It is a pit of vipers. I usually carried a gun when I went there at night. Crowley book shopping, of course, was a fun, daylight activity. They use drugs there. Where did Frater Taurus end his career, at the pinnacle of street-level power, as the Division Commander who cleaned it all up, for real?

Hollywood

Where did Frater Shiva set up his Temple for the VIIIth AEthyr extravaganza? Where did Frater Shiva sign on for duty during his tour of the next step? (in the same Theosophical Society building with a hill behind it where Alice met Djwhal). Where did Franklin Jones have an experience in a Yoga Vedanta temple that transformed him into Adi-da?

(I'll not keep typing Hollywood in Bold after each question. Just lump them all together).

How much synchronicity do you want? For me, my tale, my point. Probably not synchronous for you, what with you being "over there," and of a different generation.

We're supposed to be talking about The Bardo (there are several), or Tibet, and AC, but I'll give a brief (personal) review of BW & BB. (The witness takes the Oath of Truth-telling)

I saw parts of BayWatch on TV from time to time, someone else's TV, but I cannot remember sitting through a single episode. Red suits, firm musculature, big boobs. End of Review.

The Beach Boys were tail-end of my musical imprinability phase. They sang about fast cars, so I was amused, but I had quit racing, so they were inconsecquential. They set the macrocosmic image for the surfing  crowd, and that image had absolutely nothing to do with real surfers, who were a surly and dangerous crowd. That crowd co-existed with the Beatniks ... in two different parts of town.

Now, about this Bardo thing. I have had visions/journeys where the actors were AEgyptian, but I have not encountered the deities and demons of the Bardos. Both cultures portrayed the afterlife in a "Book." Obviously, it depends on something inside as to which set of archetypes is going to be showing in anyone's interior theater. I would guess DNA is that something, but I haven't done the research project, so you'll have to carry on without me.

Posted by: @dom

I'm not saying that the Hollywood-based sun-drenched  'Golden State' near the ocean was a totally mellow civil-zone but it would've been a sensible practical prediction of the area were 'freaks' would proliferate moreso.

Alice was sitting in Hollywood. People tend to think their locale is the center of the universe, which it is.  Crowley gave us Boleskine for a Mecca. I have noticed that it was simply the place where he started his Abramelin operation ... but never finished it there. I have also wondered why Scotland is thus designated as the Qiblah. I suppose he designated it early in the game and simply stuck to it.

Anyway, I fail to be interested in the mechanism of any "prediction." She was there at ground zero in 1921. Please note that her book rolled out for 30 years, starting just about the time that Therion supposedly took Ipsissimus.

 


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dom
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14/05/2020 8:38 am  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @dom

was that so impressive seeing as Hollywood was well-known as a centre of innovation (read: open-minded) even in 1915?

Impressive? I did not cite the quote in order to impress anyone with Alice Bailey's predictive quality.

 

 

I never said you did.  She probably was though.  

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Behemoth
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15/05/2020 10:03 am  
Posted by: @djedi
Posted by: @behemoth

Wiligut made several modifications to the "runic key" of Guido Von List.

Just an obscure fun fact about magic Nazis and runes, since we're supposed to care about this sort of thing:

In the late seventies, a southron and physicist named William Luther Pierce, who history remembers as perhaps the most influential American Nazi, founded a religion he called Cosmotheism, the followers of which he called the 'People of the Rune'. In this relatively primitive religion (which I have reviewed and believe to be authentic despite the claims of some special interest groups), the runes are seen as tattvas, the most important of which being the Algiz or, ariosophically, 'man / life' rune. The 'People of the Rune', of which few remain, saw the life rune as symbolizing their most sacred aspect of the universe: evolution. Pierce saw mankind's destiny as being evolving into Nietzschean gottmenschen i.e. Guido von List's Einherjar.

This relates to Tibet/theosophy via the theosophical doctrine of the sixth and seventh root races, yet to come.

 

 

Dr. Pierce’s vision for the “race to come” was probably much more biologically oriented (and perhaps what Crowley described in MWT as “Nordic twaddle about race-pollution.")

 

Your mention of the Algiz rune reminds me of one of the possible etymologies I have seen as an explanation for the name Aiwass/Aiwaz. Eihwaz, being a Proto-Germanic word for “yew” and name of the rune. In the younger Futhark we have the Yr rune that is the same symbol as the rune Algiz, but inverted. Yr also means ("yew") and likewise shares the same meaning as the Elder Futhark Eihwaz rune.

 

But the real interest here is the Proto-Germanic word “aiwaz”:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/aiwaz

 

Guus Kroonen offers in his Etymological Dictionary of Proto-Germanic (Leiden Indo-European Etymological Dictionary Series; 11), page 16 two interesting etymologies, that at least in the context of Liber Al and Thelema, might be interesting:

Etymology 1

*aiwaz

1. long time, age, eternity

Etymology 2

*aiwaz

1. law

2. Probably identical to the above; compare the semantics of cognates Latin iūs (“law”), Proto-Brythonic *jʉð (“judge”).

 

From the same root word as this one, there are other Proto-Germanic words derived like aiwahaftaz that is something described as being lawful, true, genuine, real, honourable.

( My grandfather, who was of Baltic descent, used to exclaim “aiva, aiva” if he found something extremely agreeable as in: “indeed, indeed” )

“Aiw” also being related to the Middle English word aye (which also appears in Liber Al).

 

Crowley, in Equinox of the Gods, indicates that the name Aiwass/Aiwaz was unfamiliar to him, and that he imagined Rose might have made it up because it sounded something like "Aiwa", the Arabic for "yes” (apart from also sounding exactly like aiwass, being the Turkish or Armenian word for a "messenger" or "waiter".)

 

Posted by: @djedi
 
This relates to Aleister Crowley via the thelemic doctrine of the Aeon of Horus, when amor fati or life-affirming belief systems (the white school) will overtake death-focused religions like Christianity and Buddhism (the black school).
 

Well, after all, The Book of the Law does profess to proclaim a new (spiritual) Law or way of life itself, something that could be in Eastern religions known as the concept of Dharma, even though there is no single-word and universally settled, commonly accepted translation for the word dharma in Western languages.

 

By a simple google search for the term "aiwaz" (and disregarding the obvious thelemic sites and context),

I found some sort of non-Thelemic organization/community that does not seem to have any Thelemic “motives” to make the word Aiwaz to mean this thing or that thing:

https://www.facebook.com/Germanic-Dharma-Aiwaz-100480858074008/

 

The word Aiwaz signifying the same thing as Dharma to them. I personally cannot say is this etymologically correct. Quick scroll through that page seems to indicate they are some sort of ásatrú neopagan group.

 

Borrowing a bit discussion/posts from this Lashtal thread from few months and few weeks ago:

https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/105598/:

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Year 1900 'receiving' first contact from Aiwass, ("A vast Svastika is shewn unto me behind the Angel with the Book.", within The Cry of the 30th Aethyr, in AC's book The Vision and the Voice, illustrated with a svastika pointing in the same way as the one made infamous in the twentieth century), (by many years preceding AC mentioning said Aiwass in his core book for his Thelema).

https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/108016/:

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred
[...] [In 1900 in Mexico] devising a Ritual of Self-Initiation, ["By the symbol of Thy whirling force the Svastika of Flaming Light, I invoke Thee to initiate my soul! ..." (Source: The Equinox, vol. I, no. III, p.272.)].

[...] in Mexico in August 11. 1900 'receiving' first contact from Aiwass, ("A vast Svastika is shewn unto me behind the Angel with the Book.", within The Cry of the 30th Aethyr, in AC's book The Vision and the Voice, illustrated with a svastika pointing in the same way as the one made infamous in the twentieth century), (by many years preceding AC mentioning said Aiwass in his core book for his Thelema)."

 

I think these quotes are rather relevant, considering also other quotes from Liber 418 where Aiwass is identified as: “Therefore am I called the Minister of Ra Hoor Khuit: and yet he is but the Viceroy of the unknown King. For my name is called Aiwass, that is eight and seventy and I am the influence of the Concealed One, and the wheel that hath eight and seventy parts

 

Such swirling svastika, pointing in the same way as the one made infamous in the twentieth century, having perhaps a dharmic connection to the svastika that is an aniconic symbol for the Buddha in many parts of Asia and homologous with the dharma wheel itself. Meaning this, in a sense, that Aiwass being the influence or revealer of such (new) dharma. 

 

And keeping in mind, that before Crowley settled/found the spelling that equals 93, Aiwass/Aiwaz was descibred as Crowley, at least in Liber 418, as the influence of the Concealed One, and the wheel that hath eight and seventy parts.

Book of Lies, Chapter 78

 

WHEEL AND--WOA!

 

The Great Wheel of Samsara.
The Wheel of the Law [Dhamma].
The Wheel of the Taro.
The Wheel of the Heavens.
The Wheel of Life.

 

Behold now Behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.


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kidneyhawk
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16/05/2020 2:31 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

This seems to be a very deep link to Thelema that is oft overlooked and I think that Kyle
@kydneyhawk

 

 

What an interesting thread here.

 

Thelema, Tibet and the Third Reich. Sounds like a book title waiting to happen!

 

In my book, Orbit: An Introduction to the Principles and Practices of Bardo-Gaming on the Prosperity Path, I discuss both the Tibetan Bardos and the Rudiments of Crowley's Philosophy (all in context of utilizing video-game tech as Magical Weaponry).

 

In my reading of Crowley, he seems to appropriate Buddhism in its Theravada form. In his appropriation, Buddhism mixes with the more “colorful” and “liberated” elements of Thelema and, as such, may seem a bit more open to the cosmic elements of Vajrayana.

 

Crowley DID regard himself as a Bodhisattva who was busy working for the benefit of all beings everywhere.

 

If you read my book, you'll find that there is an emphasis on the gaming “avatar” as a type of HGA. When you form that link, you are both “in it” together and work as a type of team or partnership. Specific types of gaming (and video-gaming) can be of great use to this dynamic.

 

Ultimately, you and the Angel become one entity-and that entity is later on “obliterated.” This obliteration is very much akin to the Buddhist Enlightenment of No-Self, Non-Being etc. Kenneth Grant alluded to this in his Skoob interview when he said there would be no humans surviving the invasion from Beyond...because there are no humans who exist to survive it.

 

But I am speaking of different stages of The Way (until one BECOMES The Way).

 

My book is NOT an academic study but a guide to practice and work with a variety of gaming systems in context of the Bodhisattva Path.

 

I'll add that the Bardos are experienced according to the Mind (and Deep Mind) of the (seeming) Individual who wakes up to the Transit Experience. I believe Shiva has already spoken of this.

 

I am finding the discussion of Guido Von List to be very interesting. I read the Flowers translation of his Secret of the Runes many years ago and found it extremely intriguing. I appreciate his visionary exploration of the inner planes and his return (from cataract surgery/healing, if I remember correctly) with a Rune Set to accommodate Havamal. And yes, the Rune name Aiwaz struck me right away.


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kidneyhawk
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16/05/2020 4:00 am  
Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Crowley DID regard himself as a Bodhisattva who was busy working for the benefit of all beings everywhere.

An addendum to the above and please forgive me for not having my source to hand:

"I'm no Pratyeka-Buddha; a Dhamma-Buddha every inch of the way." 

-Crowley, from John St John (The Second Day)

In my copy, there is a note from James Wasserman:

"A Pratyeka-Buddha attains the Supreme Reward for himself alone; a Dhamma-Buddha renounces it and returns to hell (earth) to teach others the Way."

 

 


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Shiva
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16/05/2020 7:22 am  
Posted by: @kidneyhawk

a note from James Wasserman:

"A Pratyeka-Buddha attains the Supreme Reward for himself alone; a Dhamma-Buddha renounces it and returns to hell (earth) to teach others the Way."

Let it also be mentioned that this "supreme reward" is getting out, which Perdurabo recommended in Ch 23 of The Book of Fakery Lies.

In the greater vehicle school, the aspirant takes the Oath to stay around 'til the last bit of sentience is dug out of the Aegean Stables. This does not mean they are a Bodhisattva, only that they have taken the Oath in hope of, or preparation for, the real deal (the offering of, and rejection of, nirvana).

This should be familiar to anyone who has read Without Tears, wherein Therion encourages aspirants who want the short path to simply take The Oath of the Abyss, and stick to it.

In case anyone reading this wonders, Getting Out of What?, the answer is: the cycles of death and rebirth.

For those who reject reincarnation (whether you like it or not), the answer is: attachment to form (form includes any thing, color, concept, or car that can be described).

 


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christibrany
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19/05/2020 4:03 pm  

@kidneyhawk

 

Thank you for the input, Kyle.

 

I recall vaguely seeing some of your postings regarding games/virtual personas as magickal and mystical avatars, not just digital ones.  I think that is a fascinating idea.

It ties in with the idea of the Matrix, that this all is truly Maya, programmed by The Creator, with Angels as programmes, to keep us in the lines/borders.

The Programmer, in His infinite coding, sends down his Avatars, to play in His game, and alter the NPC's (us?).

 

How far does Hinduism and Buddhism go, when it comes to Atman vs Brahman?  

If this is all Maya, does that mean we are not truly conscious? Are there multiple layers of our coding and pixels which ultimately end up in Nothing? 


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Shiva
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19/05/2020 6:15 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

How far does Hinduism and Buddhism go, when it comes to Atman vs Brahman?  

Buddhism has no Angel or Soul or Higher Self. It's you versus nirvana, and you better perform good acts or you will suffer with sorrow. Tibetan Buddhism has a Yidam, an intermediary deity, which is comparable to our HGA.


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christibrany
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19/05/2020 6:25 pm  

@shiva

 

but...

If this is all Maya, does that mean we are not truly conscious? Are there multiple layers of our coding and pixels which ultimately end up in Nothing? 

We think we are real and conscious but we really are not even existing? 

I have been out of body, I think I know the state when I will die.  But what if that is all part of the Maya programme? 


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Shiva
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19/05/2020 8:08 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

If this is all Maya, does that mean we are not truly conscious?

Consciousness is universal/omniversal. It exists everywhere. Sentient beings carry receptors/receivers that are "tuned" to "their" karmatic frequency range. Most of us agree on the perception and reality of the outer world, but we also have wacko nut-jobs as well as stupid/crystallized folks. Dogs, for example, share part of our human spectrum, but they also have ranges that we cannot fathom.

Mr White tol us that there is consciousness at all levels of being, including the highest. That doesn't make it true, but there's an analogy.

Most people I have encountered will admit to "blacking out" in their early dhyanas. It has been my experience that when similar events take place later, that one gets further into the black hole before blacking out. Eventually, one can hit the black hole and remain conscious, it's the sense of self that disappears. The blackouts are veils. They protect the vehicle from overwhelming insanity.

If anyone has penetrated that blackout say, three times, they probably know what I'm talking about. Does that Shoe fit?

Posted by: @christibrany

We think we are real and conscious but we really are not even existing?

Welcome to the world of Dzogchen, Zen, and

Posted by: @christibrany

what if that is all part of the Maya programme? 

That's what you're here for. To figure that out. Or transcend it.

 


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christibrany
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19/05/2020 8:45 pm  

I was gonna ask a quest-ion but I think you said it best - 'figure it out/transcend it'

Then I thought - what if that blacking out I had maybe only once in Dyana is actually a symptom of the programme ending, and proof that consciousness only exists in this 'programme/matrix' ?   

Sometimes it's just too big for my cranium. 


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20/05/2020 6:55 am  
Posted by: @chris

blacking out I had maybe only once in Dyana is actually a symptom of the programme ending, and proof that consciousness only exists in this 'programme/matrix' ?   

I believe I mentioned three times. One time has no reference points. Twice, and if you get deeper, or farther out, before blackout, you may suspect progress.

Once this happens a third time, and you remember more (deeply or highly), you may suspect a pattern of potential future progress (hope). You may also conclude that the program has not ended.

If you've followed the Japanese maxim, "Do it a hundred times!" and enough time is available (20 years has been mentioned), one can slip between the worlds of programmer and programmed. The 5th circuit (Tiphareth) will override the lower four programs, but only temporarily (for as long as the 5th circuit is activated).

The 6th circuit (Geburah) is the  first one we come to that can permanently reprogram (meta-program) the lower circuits, which surely have been tampered with and crosswired since the we got borned. Maybe before.

Posted by: @shiva

Sometimes it's just too big for my cranium

It is too big for anyone's cran. Nobody ever figures this stuff out ... with their mentat. Beyond that, answers come via gnosis (rigpa). Then people talk about it or write books. They yry to explain things, but can only do so (in honesty) by revealing paradox. Then people either say they are nut-jobs, put them in jail, kill them (in primitive third-world countries), or line up to join their Order.

 


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christibrany
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20/05/2020 3:18 pm  

@shiva

 

AHA! (door daleth 14) 

 

It make-a sense. 

 

Om mani padme hum

 

Thanks 

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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21/05/2020 7:11 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

Om mani padme hum

HUM - OM = HGA


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dom
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21/05/2020 10:36 am  
Posted by: @shiva

Most people I have encountered will admit to "blacking out" in their early dhyanas. It has been my experience that when similar events take place later, that one gets further into the black hole before blacking out. Eventually, one can hit the black hole and remain conscious, it's the sense of self that disappears. The blackouts are veils. They protect the vehicle from overwhelming insanity.

If anyone has penetrated that blackout say, three times, they probably know what I'm talking about. Does that Shoe 

 

Yes this blackout would appear to be Chiah aiming for or stumbling upon Yechidah.   

Blackouts like this can  be induced by whisky which is presumably why AC recommends 1=10 to test her limits and get as stoned as possible ie that will prepare  her for when she starts to meditate and/or deal with Demons so on.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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21/05/2020 5:32 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

Om mani padme hum

Hum is fourth word of the mantra in India. In Tibet, the fourth word is hung. This allows westerners to make jokes about hanging recalcitrants and other poster's virility.

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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21/05/2020 6:35 pm  

@shiva

This one doesn't work as well:

HUNG - OM = HTYU


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21/05/2020 6:51 pm  
Posted by: @duck

his one doesn't work as well:

HUNG

I do not even begin to understand the difference between India and Tibet in their line-based alpha betas or their hum hungs.


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The HGA of a Duck
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21/05/2020 7:26 pm  

@shiva

Don't worry, I was just doing weird sums as a little diversion from the ongoing vector art. I don't know much about those alphabets either, they seem to be a bit like the Japanese "kana" syllable thingy.


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Shiva
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21/05/2020 10:03 pm  
Posted by: @duck

they seem to be a bit like the Japanese "kana" syllable thingy.

They also tend to be cursive, artistic squiggles dangling from a clothes line that are translated in various English spellings with different pronunciations and meanings. It is insanity itself, I am telling you. I suppose there's all those dialects and accent to deal with, as well.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, and I believe she will give me my own Mantra, with instructions in proper pronunciation. I believe Crowley's Mantra was Thelema, the Tibetan version of which is The Lama, which is one of those amusing "close, but not bingo" examples.


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dom
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21/05/2020 11:17 pm  

Maybe we should rename it 'white-out'.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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22/05/2020 1:34 am  
Posted by: @dom

Maybe we should rename it 'white-out'.

An intense white light precedes a dhyana, but (in the earlier stages) it results in a blackout. Perhaps neither-out, both-out, or none-out.


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23/05/2020 11:38 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @dom

Maybe we should rename it 'white-out'.

An intense white light precedes a dhyana, but (in the earlier stages) it results in a blackout. Perhaps neither-out, both-out, or none-out.

I don't think they teach that in Zazen classes. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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24/05/2020 1:58 am  
Posted by: @dom

I don't think they teach that in Zazen classes. 

No they don't. Buddhism does not recognize a higher self, an angel, or any intermediary. It has been said, "They skip a step." So the practitioner is set against the void, without an inner guide.

Almost all other (maybe all itself) traditions, including those developed by AC and The Holy Roman Catholic Church, stress an intermediary principle to help one across the great divide. In the fist instace, AC stresses the HGA. In the second instance, the Church offers to be the intermediary, on behalff of the Christ consciousness. The Zen guy says, "This is all illusion."

The Zen guy is correct, but the HGA offers a crutch to stabilize the ascent across the gulf of illusion. The Church merely asks for money and your obedience to the Word of God, which they will explain to you.

Zen - HGA - Church. The Three Schools of Magick.

 


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dom
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24/05/2020 2:29 am  

@shiva

 

But Crowley didn't recommend Zazen, he instead recommended the painful and uncomfortable asanas with the hot oxygen-deprivation sessions. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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24/05/2020 3:54 am  
Posted by: @dom

But Crowley didn't recommend Zazen

No, he didn't. Like one of my advanced teachers, he realized that "They skip a step."

Skipping little steps can be forgiven, because one can always go back and pick up the pieces. But skipping a major step, like the HGA and the whole Inner Order thing, makes it difficult for our western pea-brains. So they ALL recommended using the three-step program. So do I.


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dom
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24/05/2020 11:42 am  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @dom

But Crowley didn't recommend Zazen

No, he didn't. Like one of my advanced teachers, he realized that "They skip a step."

Skipping little steps can be forgiven, because one can always go back and pick up the pieces. But skipping a major step, like the HGA and the whole Inner Order thing, makes it difficult for our western pea-brains. So they ALL recommended using the three-step program. So do I.

But Zazen may be a  pathway to HGA?   The Buddhists also have 'the 10 parts of the soul'.  I assume they correlate to the Hebrew 10 parts of the soul.  During 'Zazen' (or whatever you want to label the active disidentification with the lower components/vechiles)  we in turn then identify with Neshamah which is in turn watched by the Yechidah which is under Chiah.  This is all union with HGA.   It's semantics.

 

If it isn't then these Zazen Zen schools all over the planet are nut-job factories? 

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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24/05/2020 5:44 pm  
Posted by: @dom

But Zazen may be a  pathway to HGA?

Anything whatsoever can act as a "path" to the HA or "intermediary" principle, including Zen. It just that the Zen fellows don't believe in it, and so it doesn't get taught in the zendo.

Posted by: @dom

During 'Zazen' (or whatever you want to label the active disidentification with the lower components/vechiles)  we in turn then identify with Neshamah which is in turn watched by the Yechidah which is under Chiah.  This is all union with HGA.   It's semantics.

The Zen Master calmly approaches zen-dom sitting in his zen-asana. For each Hebrew word uttered, and for each explanation offered, he whacks zen-dom once with his long stick.

Like 61, the god-dog, and the sound of one finger snapping, the stick awaits any form of mental revelation. Only emptiness can avoid the stick.

Posted by: @dom

Zen schools all over the planet are nut-job factories? 

Zen practitioners rarely, if ever, step forth and proclaim the Law, solve puzzles, announce their Word, or claim 8=3. They do not appear to be linked to mass shootings or the launch of deadly viruses. They are quiet and they cultivate modesty and emptiness, not nut-theories.

However, many of them earned a black belt in some push-shove-or-punch do (Tao - way), so it is not recommended that outsiders try to hit them with their stick.

.


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Jamie J Barter
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24/05/2020 6:08 pm  
Posted by: @dom

It's semantics.

As in, zazen = wuwei ?

Posted by: @dom

But Crowley didn't recommend Zazen

Though he did recommend Taoism. (see above)

Posted by: @dom

If it isn't then these Zazen Zen schools all over the planet are nut-job factories? 

Just churning them all out (=factories implying mass production), you mean?  Not quite sure what you do mean here...

Posted by: @shiva

Only emptiness can avoid the stick.

Or, only emptiness can void the stick.

(Boom-boom, tish),

N JOy


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dom
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24/05/2020 6:20 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @dom

But Zazen may be a  pathway to HGA?

Anything whatsoever can act as a "path" to the HA or "intermediary" principle, including Zen. It just that the Zen fellows don't believe in it, and so it doesn't get taught in the zendo.

Oh yeah I misinterpreted that earlier. 

@jamiejbarter Though he did recommend Taoism. (see above) 

 

I guess he did. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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24/05/2020 7:08 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Or, only emptiness can void the stick.

(Boom-boom, tish),

Right. There is no stick.


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christibrany
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16/06/2020 8:39 pm  

I am glad this had such fascinating responses.

 

I dont think I delved into the SS delving into Tibet but it was implied.

 

Anyway not my point.

 

Can anyone refute or approve this statement?

 

"Tibetans are better off under the CCP than they were under their previous regime
When China invaded Tibet the Tibetans cheered on the street the end of the Dalai Lama and his oppressive dictatorship

The US government lied to you
rense.com...

Anyway, China and India, that’s a bit scary, what’s so valuable worth fighting for I wonder?"


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dom
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16/06/2020 10:54 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

I am glad this had such fascinating responses.

 

I dont think I delved into the SS delving into Tibet but it was implied.

 

 

Don't attribute any glamour to it, it's a mindless frickin' joke of a situation.  They went to Stonehenge also, this is what happens in dictatorships when wackos hold the power.   Saddam Hussein had someone 'prove' that he was the reincarnation of  Nebuchadnezzar, Papa Doc Duvalier declared himself to be a Voodoo god and so on...

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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17/06/2020 1:59 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

Anyway, China and India, that’s a bit scary, what’s so valuable worth fighting for I wonder?"

The area under dispute with bullets and bad name-calling is the world's longest undefined border. No wall. No fence. No pillars. Both sides have generally avoided this zone, but India built a highway to support its nearby,  lonely, remote airfield. So China, being China, got gnuervous and moved in troops and equipment ... on the obviously Indian side. It's a 2nd territorial, circuit clash. It's happening everywhere.

Do not be surprised at anything any country does. Under cover of the pandemic and the riots, sneaky moves are being made everywhere. Especially be on the lookout for attacks against your local city hall, your shire reeve's hangout, and your trash disposal service truck depot.

Yes, Himmler sent scouting parties to all sorts of remote places. Adolf had the Lance, Himmler was scouting for the Grail. It was a arzival, Teutonic knight kind of thing. Also consciously magical. I forget why they thought it might be in Tibet, but I remember seeing photos that showed SS guys in uniform in (if I remember correctly) Tibet.

The Tibetans are not happier under China's iron thumb. Who would be? They may well have cheered the troops coming in, but an awful lot of them had been paid big-time in silver coins by the CCP, to act as spies, and probably to cheer, just like the agents provocateur that could be seen in recent uprisings here in the first world, no less.

 


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