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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
21/11/2011 9:17 pm  

Hiya, newbie here πŸ™‚ and new to Mr Crowleys teachings. I got into him the other day after a series of strange coincidences.
As anyone else found his underlying message being similar to Eckhart Tolle's?
I Have been reading Mr Crowley for the past couple of days, I find him hard to understand but its just dawned on me that what Tolle speaks of as 'Consciousness is what we essentially are' and Crowleys 'Will' are the same.
So Mr Crowleys message, its basically action with awareness?. Being Present in all we do or dont do. Become aware?.

or am i seriously off track here??


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 1836
21/11/2011 9:38 pm  

93, fee3!

I don't know this guy and my first impression is "OMG", but I like this quote about him: "In short he teaches: Live now! But this with a heavy German accent. Americans love him all the more because they think: That's Buddhism combined with Superior German Technology!"

Love=Law
Lutz


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5056
21/11/2011 10:48 pm  
"fee3" wrote:
'Consciousness is what we essentially are' and Crowleys 'Will' are the same.

Consciousness is the Shen (spirit) of Oriental Medicine. It resides in the Heart. Pure Consciousness exists above and beyond Will, which after all is merely Chokmah on the Tree of Life.

"fee3" wrote:
So Mr Crowley's message, its [is] basically action with awareness?. Being Present in all we do or dont do. Become aware?.

That's 3 definitions you are asking about. But they are (more or less) all the same. Mr Crowley's message is "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law," a long sentence with "thou" and "wilt," and I am suspicious of all modern uses of biblical language. Also: "There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt," which means that's it - and there is no other consideration(s)/

"fee3" wrote:
or am i seriously off track here??

No, not seriously. Maybe not at all. Some of our cantankerous philosophers may well have a great explanation for you - then he or she will probably argue about it with other cantankerites.

"For pure consciousness, unassuaged of Will, is in every way, and (especially) in no way, perfect."


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gurugeorge
(@gurugeorge)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 456
21/11/2011 10:59 pm  
"fee3" wrote:
Hiya, newbie here πŸ™‚ and new to Mr Crowleys teachings. I got into him the other day after a series of strange coincidences.
As anyone else found his underlying message being similar to Eckhart Tolle's?
I Have been reading Mr Crowley for the past couple of days, I find him hard to understand but its just dawned on me that what Tolle speaks of as 'Consciousness is what we essentially are' and Crowleys 'Will' are the same.
So Mr Crowleys message, its basically action with awareness?. Being Present in all we do or dont do. Become aware?.

or am i seriously off track here??

I don't think so, I'd say that of popular teachers today, both Eckhart Tolle and Adyashanti are, shall we say, on a similar wavelength to Crowleyian mysticism in some ways; but then any serious mysticism will be. There are many others who are, if not exactly fellow-travellers, at least capable of waving at each other on the road.

However, Tolle and Adyashanti follow a path that's more Jnana, whereas Crowley is more Yoga.

Another way of saying it would be that they, like the Zen people, follow a "sudden" school of enlightenment, whereas Crowley is more of a "gradual" school.

And from the gradualist point of view: you may have the insight, but unless it's (so to speak) stable it's not much use to anyone but yourself, and possibly not even to yourself. Crowley's main tradition (the A:.A:.) is meant to be a tradition that furthers human evolution, more of a Mahayana path (to mix religious schools even more), whereas most modern teachers teach a Hinayana path (personal enlightenment, with little thought to teach or further a tradition, or to "improve mankind" - which is also perfectly fine).

So Crowley's system being a Mahayana-ish path, it's incumbent on practitioners to do a lot of boring groundwork, so that when the insight comes, it's like the capstone on a pyramid, and is permanent - and useful to others (i.e. you've been through a lot of practices, and you can advise others).

But that's not necessary for Joe Ordinary - Joe Ordinary who has no business but his own is perfectly free to attain his personal epiphany to guide his own life and his dealings with the world, and teachers like Tolle and Adyashanti and the others are great for that. That's the joy of the New Aeon - there's a myriad ways to come to spirituality, and so long as they are ethically kosher (i.e. ditch dogmatism, fanaticism, etc.) it's all good.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
22/11/2011 11:49 am  
"fee3" wrote:
As anyone else found his underlying message being similar to Eckhart Tolle's?
I Have been reading Mr Crowley for the past couple of days, I find him hard to understand but its just dawned on me that what Tolle speaks of as 'Consciousness is what we essentially are' and Crowleys 'Will' are the same.
So Mr Crowleys message, its basically action with awareness?. Being Present in all we do or dont do. Become aware?.
or am i seriously off track here??

The posts above are insightful.
The deal with Crowley's work is that it is so large and all-encompassing, and like the Bible, one can find virtually anything in it. So yes, you can find Tolle's "here and now" insistence there, for instance in Crowley's "rationalist Buddhist mode" or Crowley's writings picking apart the illusion of time/space. "True Will" does sound a lot like Tolle's description of pure consciousness or 'presence'.
However, you can also find both of them at complete opposites when AC sets down long and arduous yoga practices, ceremonial magic practices, qabalistic study, and lays out a very future oriented plan (salvation at some point in 'the future') which Tolle wouldn't go for. And all with good reason for giving a beginner some foundation.
On the other hand, many people find Tolle hard to actually put into practice, a bit dumbed down for the masses, and to be honest, after you've heard lecture #158, it all sounds much like lecture #1. That said, some of AC's students could probably take away a few tips from Tolle as well, especially those who have been fixated for the last 5 years in trying to balance a saucer of water on their head in asana before moving onto the "next practice".. or those focused on gaining "that magical title" at some point next decade.

All fun and games to be sure πŸ™‚


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
23/11/2011 6:21 pm  

Tolle is doing a poor imitation of more significant eastern teachers who's message was even closer to Crowleys, most notably, Osho's.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
23/11/2011 8:47 pm  

Thanks for the replies everyone, after reading a few pages from the book of Thoth, and digging a truth here and there, I think I will have to take a closer look at the qabala.
@ Swamiji...Osho rocks!!


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Q789
 Q789
(@q789)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 43
24/11/2011 2:43 am  

I too have read Eckhart Tolle's masterpiece and i think you are right on the ball.
Further i would like to add that Crowleys "Knowledge and conversation of the holy guardian angel" is also aptly described by Eckhart Tolle. I think(tho i can't quite remember Tolls words) that to bring you inner light, through the gaps in time and to manifest it in the here and now of everyday consciousness, is what Toll described very well.

Q789


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Q789
 Q789
(@q789)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 43
24/11/2011 4:54 am  

I just went shopping and realized something about when i was read Toll's work. and that was that Crowley has a 'dynamic' perspective on adept consciousness compared to Toll. Which does confirm Zazenji and fee3.
Just while i am on the subject can i confirm something with you. I achieved this state in a 10 month trance about 16 years ago. For me it was a definite initiation with a start and finish, not slow process which (Nema) and other describe. It all happened one night when i got home from work, very tired, and started to seriously think about where i was, after 13 years of very hard meditation, ceremonial magick, study and circumspection. I started to question myself and whether i have got anywhere and if not why. Then i decided that i wanted a rest 'cause i am getting tired of this'' i want to rest'. I continued to consider this when i finally decided 'In know- i will go off what i have'' yeh thats what i'll do just go off what i got' - and thats when it started to happen for me.
The trance took 10 months, i had many many visions, spiritual visits, realizations and experiences. far to many to describe here.
I think Eckhart Tolle's work is original and brilliant, it confirmed for me many of the intuitions and realizations i had both during that time and still have daily now.

Q789


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
24/11/2011 4:19 pm  
"Swamiji" wrote:
Tolle is doing a poor imitation of more significant eastern teachers who's message was even closer to Crowleys, most notably, Osho's.

That’s a superficial comparison. Yes, Osho and Crowley were both iconoclasts but Osho himself stated that his work was closest to Gurdjieff.

The biggest difference between the two men is their positions on sex – for Osho, the goal is to ultimately liberate oneself from such attachments; for Crowley, he never let go because he saw sexuality as the nature of the universe.


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